₦airaland Forum

aurenflani: Neither was Hitler, Mussolini or his Vatican friends; the danish cartoonist, the klu Klan and countless number of christianism slave masters as well as the Norwegian genocidal Christian mass murderer acted to defend christianism from Muslims

Yippie Skippie - another blind Islamic advocate - you ignored my question abi. Please show me where Jesus killed anyone? The difference between Christians committing act of violence is in clear contradiction and disobedience to Jesus teaching compared to muslims that have a legitimate basis for violence has taught in the Quran and practiced by it's prophet.

You close your eyes to muslims killing themselves in Syria and Iraq. Sunnis are slaughtering Shias everyday in Iraq - you leave all that yet you see Mussolini and Hitler. Cha, mumu-ness is not good oh!.

mahdino: What makes one a muslim is to believe in one God and the messenger of that time

Stop lying, that is not what the Shahada said. Islam claimed Adam was the first muslim - so what prophet did Adam believe in? You guys keep going around in circles and shooting yourself in the foot. Jesus Christ of Nazareth was a Jew, Islam didn't exist during his time - claiming He was a muslim is tantamount to claiming that all jews were muslims and that is NOT TRUE

mahdino: Brother I am not trying to attack u or say anything absurd, we can't just be arguing we have to reason.
God sees through ur mind. There is no way Jesus could have said Mohammad rasulullah, that to tesify at that time that Mohammad is the messenger because it was not yet time for Mohammad @ that time its" There is no god but Allah and Isa (Jesus) the messenger of God" now check John 17 :3 if u translate it to Arabic it is. Laila ha ila llah isa rasulullah. @ the time of Noah he was the way to God @ the time of Abraham he was the way @ the time of Moses he was the way @ the time of Jesus he was the way this is the time of Mohammad (saw spirit of truth, comforter) he is the way.

So they preached same thing worship God alone and submit thierselves to God one word for that in Arabic is Muslims.

Cha!, see confusion. How can someone believe in something that never existed? Again, I ask you - what makes one a muslim?

striktlymi: I believe that problem is YOURS!!!

I aint the one making accusations!!!

You can believe anything. Let us get back to the topic - the Myths and Truths of Islam

striktlymi: You are the one trying to interpret the words of Paul. Paul did not say, God is the Father of Jews and Christians. He said God is the Father of ALL.

Whether you believe it or not is your problem - the author made it clear who he was speaking to.

mahdino: The most important thing to note is the meaning of a muslim. A muslim is a person that submit his will to God, In Arab is called a muslim. Jesus submitted his will to God in the garden of gatsme he said not my will but ur will.
Now who is ignorant is me or the person that does not no the meaning of a muslim.

Stop confusing yourself. You are a muslim if you say the Shahada "There is no god but allah and mohammed is his messenger". That is what makes you a muslim. Jesus never said that. He couldn't because Jesus lived 600 years before Mohammed. So, your claim that Jesus was/is a muslim is baseless

mahdino: Thank u for giving us the refrence that indeed I did not misquote. Jesus reall said for those my enemies who do not want me to rule over them bring them here and cut off their heads.
The point I am trying to make is the words are there in the bible u can say defensive or out of context but it is there. Why not reason with us too with the Quran u quote out of context.

Listen, it's not a matter of listening to you or to me or to anyone. Your first line of defense was to prove Jesus committed violence just like Mohammed. The reason you did that was to justify that even though Mohammed committed violence, Jesus did as well. You brought your claim, and we addressed it. If you want to prove Jesus committed violence - show me anywhere in your Quran or in the Bible where he killed anyone.

Listen, you didn't do justice to the chapter and verse from the Bible you quoted. If you had said, that violence was used in the Bible, I will agree - there are many wars and killings in the Bible - no one can deny that. The issue is the motive of the war. Cain killed Abel - it was murder and the motive was because he was jealous. King David was a warrior, he fought many battles and did kill his enemies. I am not saying muslims don't have the right to defend themselves. I ADVOCATE that anyone can and should defend themselves.

However, boko haram is not defending itself when it blow up churches. Ansaru wasn't protecting itself when it killed those foreigners. Mohammed wasn't protecting himself when he be-headed over 900 men after they surrendered to him

golpen

Firstly, I should tell you about my discomfort in responding to this post of yours because I already forgot about this thread, however, I'm respondong because I know how disappointed you'll feel if you don't get a reply from me and soon I'm sure you'll start assigning victories to yourself and your baseless points.

Learn to debate the points not go in circles. No one is claiming victory over anyone. This is an open forum, I live, I learn.

So it is only henry okah's case that caught your fancy right? And you likes couldn't help you on that of rev. King's. Wasn't he burning people heartlessly in the name of jesus? Maybe you should swallow this before seeing your dr;

Who brought up Henry Okah? Wasn't it you? Since you can't refute that, you are jumping to Rev, King? Who is next - Jesus? You are shameless

Muslims have always tried to explain to you that BH is rather as political as henry okah, niger-delta or rev. King. Just as rev. King kills for his personal political purpose using christianity, niger-delta kidnapping and causing several havocs for their own political purposes, so is BH, who have been recorded to have killed more muslims!!! But you don't want to listen because of your political hate. Hasn't plateau state declared itself a xtian state?

Dude, stop playing pretend. You and I know Henry Okah is a political thing - no doubt about that. If Boko Haram was politically, why are they claiming it is religious? Why are they telling Christians to leave Northern Nigeria? Why are they bombing churches? Please give me some reference to Rev. King, it's my 1st time hearing about this.

Why should your OP ask me a question when he is not done with tackling not even the simplest of his own scripture. If a person is to give you a cloth, the first advisable is that you check that which he has on him.

This is a public forum, you had the choice not to respond, you did. Just the same way I am responding to you. You can decide to either answer or keep going around in circles like you have.

So here, your own ignorance is not laughable, but rather pathetic

. Poked ya head huh? History is not your friend mate - the violence that runs through your Quran and Hadith from the 7th century is still spilling over in the 21st century. If it's not Sunnis killing Shias everyday in Iraq, it's your brothers up North burning and bombing churches. Later, you would open your mouth and talk about violence in Christianity.

If it's not Henry Okah, it will be Obama next

striktlymi: That is your personal opinion which is against Sacred scriptures. Paul does not agree with you when he said:

Ephesians 4:6
New International Version (NIV)

6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Around AD 49, a council convened in Jerusalem to decide the matter of whether Gentile converts to Christianity needed to undergo circumcision in order to be accepted into full fellowship. The decision was a difficult one to make, and early Church leaders found themselves at the crossroads of Jewish culture and Christian doctrine. When the council issued its decision, it forever changed the landscape of Christianity and created a divide that would later threaten to fracture Christianity. Ephesians, and to a lesser extent Colossians, documents some of the concerns and issues associated with that decision.

Here, Paul was referring to God as the Father to both Jews and Christians because we believe in Him. A muslim doesn't believe in the Christian God, how can He be a Father to them? I don't believe in Allah, how can he be a father to me?

striktlymi

I NEVER said or implied the above. They are your words!!!

Now now, you have to be honest. You said muslims fight in self defense and fight their known enemies. My question is - are Shias and Sunnis enemies? Don't they belong to the same house in Islam?

I have tried to explain the above in an earlier post but let me see if I can be a bit more articulate in expressing my thoughts.

If we look at the verses you put up there in isolation, we definitely will see it in a very bad light. Hey, I was also shocked when I saw them for the first time.

After some research, I found out that the verses are simply misunderstood and taken out of context. Let's take Surat 9:5 as our case study...

The verse you quoted is:

Surat 9:5

Translated as:

And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

Now, looking at the above one would be tempted to think that the Quran permits indiscriminate killing of innocent people but note that the verse was written at a time of war and we know that the order given by Muhammad was to fight those who fight against them with some sense of morality...

Surah 2:190

Translated as:

Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.

In other words, fighting for a Muslim is supposed to be out of self defense. The principle surrounding self defense states that one has the right to protect himself against an aggressor to the point of using deadly force if it is necessary...

Now take a look at the bold in that verse...despite this extraordinary case of a defensive war, Muslims are asked by the Quran not to continue fighting when the opposition has repented...for it is said that they should be allowed to go after the Zakat has been done...The Zakat is an obligatory alms given required from all Muslims.

Now this repentance really has nothing to do with them converting to Islam...as the previous verse (Surat 9:4) made mention of a treaty which the Muslim is permitted to make with his aggressor as long as the aggressor is faithful to the dictates of the treaty...see verse below:

Surah 9:4

Translated as:

Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].

So unless I am presented with some evidence that the Muhammad or the Quran asks Muslims to kill innocent people, I still refuse to hold the position that the Quran or Muhammad encourages a 'war of blame'

Bros, the context can be gotten from the Hadith, you don't have to play the Islamic scholar game. Mohammed was clear on what he meant:

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Bukhari (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)."

Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."

Please tell us from the Hadith I posted where Mohammed is acting in self defense?

mahdino

Read your bible and see what Jesus said to his diciples in Luke he said" he who has no sword should sell his garments and buy one".

Another brain-washed malu hypnotized with 7th century Arabian way of thinking. So Jesus told him to buy a sword - then what? Where in the Bible did you read Jesus killed anyone? When you are in a public forum, learn to quote your reference so others can follow your line of thought

Let me give another quotation from the new testament jesus said I quote "for those my enemies who do not want me to rule over them bring them here and cut off their heads in front of me"[/quote]Really, did you take time to read the parable Jesus was talking about? For your reference, the quote you mentioned is in Luke 19:27. Jesus used parables to explain concepts when he taught people and he did the same here:

Luke 19:

[b]11 And as they heard these things, he added and [size=15pt]spake a parable[/size], because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.

12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.

15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.

17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.

19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.

20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:

21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.

22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:

23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?

24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.

25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)

26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.

27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.[/b]

Next time, learn to research before you display your ignorance publicly. Jesus never taught violence, never encouraged it and never killed anyone.

striktlymi: The bold are your words not mine.

You are still yet to answer it

striktlymi

Bring any one of those battles as an example and we will examine it together.

Sure, will do

He did permit his followers to rob the Quraysh caravans but this was after he and his followers were persecuted and forced to flee their homes. He did not start it..he only responded to an aggressor.

Who attacked him before he robbed caravans?

You are yet to show that I have been dishonest

Dishonest that not all the battles Mohammed and muslims involved in were strictly defensive

striktlymi: The above is your own fabrication! God is Father to all!

God is a creator to all, not Father to all

striktlymi

Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.

The above is a directive given by Muhammad to his followers, which is meant to guide their thinking when they go into war with a potential 'enemy'.

It can be seen clearly that the instruction was to fight against those who fight against them. And even when they fight, they should not shirk their moral responsibilities as depicted in his instruction for them not to transgress because Allah does not like transgressors.

So Sunnis and Shias are enemies? Are they not muslims? Why are they fighting and killing each other? Are innocent Christians fighting Boko Haram in northern Nigeria?

The issue here is not that all muslims are violent or that they don't understand the Quran. The Quran is like a set of logo-blocks, you can use it to build what you want. For a muslim that wants to be violent, the Quran legitimize such actions. For example:

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

Clearly, the verses above are not DEFENSIVE

striktlymi: There is evidence to show that Muhammad did not support the killing of the innocent. He has maintained that his followers only fight those who fight against them.

How do you determine those who are fighting Islam? Is building a church in Northern Nigeria fighting Islam. Is sharing another faith with a muslim fighting Islam?

striktlymi: There is evidence to suggest that Muhammad would have preferred peace as against war and that is the simple truth. For the command he gave to his followers is to fight only those who fight against them.

Any true Muslim, from Muhammad's perspective does not go about looking for a fight.

He was involved in 26 battles; history proves that not all those battles were defensive. He robbed caravans travelling from Mecca to Damascus and killed 5 men on one of his raids - that is not defensive.

Please speak honestly from both sides

golpen: Sire, you will never get an answer if your mind is not opened to get one (you know that is the fact). 1+1 will never be equal to 2 if the student does not have the mind to learn. You have always gotten deserved answers from us muslims, but I don't know when you expect to get a cooked soup when you're always condemning the firewood.

Hmmm...Is that true that islam is the cause of boko haram? If you want me to agree with you over that, you need to tell me that henry okah (the eagle square bomber) is an imam and also prove to me that king was an alhaji, not a reverend. If you can't, then you should accept that we wouldn't have had such terrorist act and other related, if there wasn't christianity.

About the tree issue...you have started your christian-like deception of quoting out of context. But I'll help you incase you can't still understand simple idiom like some people have once suspected. I mean 'of what use was the tree when it couldn't bear fruits?', so likewise, of what need is my presenting you answers, it is certain that they are never enough for you?. You still need to read your bible with clear understanding, before coming on NL with your conspiracy plots.

So, boko haram are buddist now? or they are chinese? Your confusion with Henry Okah is the difference between politics and religion - In Islam, it's a thin line. So, Henry Okah told you what he was doing was because he wanted to establish a Christian state in Nigeria abi? or because Jesus told him to drive muslims from the south-south abi? Your ignorance is laughable

It never cease to amaze me how some muslims turn 360 degrees when they are confronted with simple questions about their faith. OP started a thread and asked some questions, you DECIDED not to answer because you viewed it as an argument. You refuted his questions by accusing him that his Bible is not perfect and there are mistakes so he shouldn't point out contradictions in your Quran. How does that refute the questions he asked?

Can't you refute his statement independently? Can't the Isalm stand on it's own without drawing the Bible into it?

igbeke: These verses of The Holy Bible will help:

Ecclesiastes 12:13
This is the end of the matter. All has been heard. Fear God, and keep his commandments; for this is the whole duty of man.

Deuteronomy 32:29
Oh that they were wise, that they understood this, that they would consider their latter end!

John 14:5
Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going. How can we know the way?"
John 14:6
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, except through me.

Hebrews 12:2
looking to Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith.

This is not a Christtian/Muslim comparison. The thread is about Islam teaching on Hell and how it affects muslims. The verses in the Bible is not related to the topic in anyway. These are some of the excuses Maclatunji will use to hide your post, lock the thread or call other trolls.

submitter

Why do Christians gather around a weird looking cube shape structure?

Do you know how to debate at all? Refute the claim the OP made without justifying idol worship in Islam. Can't you refute the claim without involving another religion. Let us say Christianity didn't exist, what then? Idolatry is permitted in Islam? You should learn to refute others claim independently. All you have done is confirm that muslims worship the Kabbah.

Going to Mecca is one of the 5 pillars of Islam. A tradition that was practiced before Mohammed was born and before Islam as a religion was formed. It is my understanding that Allah is almighty and can't be described. Yet, millions of muslims go to Mecca every year to have their hair shaved and kiss the Kabba that contained the idols of Arabia. Why do they do these things? Why are they worshiping a stone, what is inside the Kabbah?

Muslims claim to be monotheist yet they are kissing the Kabba and praying to it. Muslims are to pray to Allah only and no one else? Is Allah in the Kabbah?

maclatunji: ^*Yawns*. A disbeliever displays his disbelief. What's new? That is enough derailment of this thread.

Thank you.

Can you ever contribute anything constructive? I will suggest you don't abuse your power and lock this thread like you did with another thread. Leave us to discuss and debate.

bilms

the struck in the hadiths you quoted doesn't imply beating...It simply follow the same pattern as the above explanation.

This is a deliberate LIE. Look up the meaning of STRUCK or STRIKE and then come back here and be honest.

Narrated Mu'awiyah al-Qushayri: "I went to the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them. (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2139)"

That doesn't change the fact that he HIT/STRUCK his wife. Mohammad is the example to every muslim man and if we see where he STRUCK his wife, what stops muslim men from following in his foot-steps.

Qur'an (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) as saying: "He who believes in Allah and the Hereafter, if he witnesses any matter he should talk in good terms about it or keep quiet. Act kindly towards woman, for woman is created from a rib, and the most crooked part of the rib is its top. If you attempt to straighten it, you will break it, and if you leave it, its crookedness will remain there. So act kindly towards women. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Book 008, Number 3468)"

Again, Mohammed should have taken his own advice and remembered what he taught. He clearly did and STRUCK his wife

Bukhari (72:715) - "Aisha said, 'I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women'" This is Muhammad's own wife complaining of the abuse that the women of her religions suffer relative to other women.'

Your prophet is on record for striking his wife and telling others a muslim man shouldn't be questioned when he beats his wife. If that isn't inequality, then I don't know what is

maclatunji: ^Gender equity not equality.

Omo, park and sit down

bilms]

Question 2, The Quran says in Surah 38:44 - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Is a woman allowed to beat a man as well? Why would a man beat his wife? She is flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone.

Thanks for attempting to answer this as well

Answer...

This Aya in the Quran was narating the incident which occured to Prophet Ayub...If you go back to 41,42,43 before the 44 you quoted, you will understand the quotation better.. pls, for the purpose of next time, don't just quote a section which has precedent from the previous chapters..

You are right, when reading about a topic, it is good to get the theme of the message. I brought out the single verse to show that a man (Job) in the Quran did hit his wife whether it was his oath to Allah or not.

Here Allah tells us about His servant and Messenger Ayub (Job) and how He tested him with sickness. These tests afflicted his body, his wealth and his children, until there was no part of his body that was healthy except his heart. Then he had nothing left in this world which he could use to help him deal with his sickness or the predicament he was in, besides his wife, who retained her devotion to him because of her faith in Allah and His Messenger. She used to work for people as a paid servant, and she fed and served him (Ayub) for nearly eighteen years. During this period, she did something to him, probably because of her work with people and Ayub (job), peace be upon him, got angry with his wife and was upset about something she had done when he was ill, so he swore an oath that if Allah healed him, he would strike her with one hundred blows.

First of all - the story of Job is taken from the Bible. It's clear here that Mohammed took the Torah/Old Testament, added salt and pepper here, took away the official account.

When Allah healed him, how could her service, mercy, compassion and kindness be repaid with a beating because she did something? So Allah showed him a way out of his oath, which was to take a bundle of thin grass, with one hundred stems, and hit her with it once. Thus he fulfilled his oath and avoided breaking his vow. This was the solution and way out to avoid breaking his vow.

The Bible said Job's wife told him to curse God and die. Even in that state, Job never made an oath to hurt his wife. Where the author of the Quran got that version from is strange to all of us. Whether he took a bundle of thin grass with one hundred stems is not the point, the POINT is that he HIT her.

Of course, what was said was not to hurt her in a way that would affect her, it is like someone you have promised to give 100 blows when you were angry, and when she comes, you just slightly touched her chicks.

The Quran clearly explains otherwise - you are adding your own interpretation. We don't know what job wife did. If he truly repented from punching her 100 times - he should have done it.

Here are a couple of examples from the Hadith:

Qur'an (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and [size=15pt]beat them[/size]; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

Bukhari (72:715) - A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her. Her skin was bruised so badly that she it is described as being "greener" than the green veil she was wearing. Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires.. Mohammed didn't tell the husband to stop beating his wife but told her to go back to him. How can a wife go back to an abusive husband. If your son-in-law or brother-in-law beat up your daughter or sister, you will tell them to go back to their husbands?

Abu Dawud (2142) - "The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife."

There is no debate here mate. Muslim men have a legitimate right in Islam to beat their wives. In the 21st century however and because of Western influence, they are trying to modernize and give different interpretation to the teachings in the Quran

bilms

Question 1, why are men allowed to marry 4 wives and women are not allowed to do so.

Thanks to you for asking such an open question.

And thanks for answering, I wanted a muslim perspective on the subject

For the purpose of this question, let me state that, If a woman have more than one husband,may be four and she becomes pregnant, who becomes the father of the child among the four husband? on the contrary, a man can impregnate four women without questions.

In this day and age, science can easily tell who the father is. The issue here is not identification of the offspring but equality. If a man in Islam has the right to marry several women, it is common sense to give the same right to women. It's almost like saying a man can become a CEO and have all the benefits of been a CEO and a woman can't because of her identity. In this area, Islam isn't fair to the woman.

How can a woman fulfil her responsibilities to four men? If she is pregnant for A, B have to wait for years to get his own child, so is C and D? Can it work realistically? NO

How can a man fulfill his responsibilities to 4 women? How can he marry and love 4 women equally and treat them right in the eyes of God? In a man's life-time, he is able to bare 10,000 children. A woman can bare 12-20 or maybe more? And we all know mothers are more attached to children than fathers. The issue here is polygamy; if it can work for a man, it sure can work for a woman.

Note pls: (apply this to since the time of the prophet till date)

This is a whole another issue and we can discuss it if you have the time.

On a more formal note, As much as men and women have equal rights in Islam, they have different roles and responsibilities. Just as Nigerians have equal right according to the constitution, but the duty of the president is different from the senate president and the citizens.

Roles are different from duties. For example, it is a woman's role to give birth - a man can't. The same way it's a man's seed that can make a woman conceive, a woman can't - THOSE ARE ROLES and not DUTIES. I hope you get the point. An official office is not the same as a role, there is a big difference.

There is no any religion except Islam that put a limit on the number of wives a man can have, that is why we have prophets like Solomon in the bible having more than 50 as he wishes. before Islam came to limit number of wives to 4, there was no religion before it that addressed this issue.

In-correct. Solomon was a king, he did as he pleased. His father did the same. The Bible and Torah records that because of the many foreign wives he (Solomon) married, they turned his heart away from God. God set the precedence on how many wives a man should marry - ONE. Christianity states, you should marry ONE wife. Here is Jesus in:

Matthew 19:4 === “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’[b]? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

Qur'an is the only religious scripture in the world that says 'marry only one' Qur'an is the only religious book, on the face of this earth, that contains the phrase 'marry only one'. There is no other religious book that instructs men to have only one wife. In none of the religious scriptures like the Vedas, the Ramayan, the Mahabharat, the Geeta or the Bible does one find a restriction on the number of wives. According to these scriptures one can marry as many as one wishes. It was only later, that the Hindu priests and the Christian Church restricted the number of wives to one.

You are WRONG again, the Quran is not the only religious scripture that says "marry only one" - THAT IS INCORRECT AND NOT TRUE. If you are referring to the specific text as "marry only one", then it is not in the Bible. However, the TEACHING of marriage to only one woman is an instruction from God and a teaching in the New Testament and from Jesus the Christ, it's not from any priest

Ephesians 5:31 === For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

So, the number of wives have nothing to do with equal rights...Just as a student studying English may spend 4 years and another studying law may spend 6.....is that inequality? a student studying accounting may spend 4 and medicine spends 7. is that inequality?.....NO..... the role of each differ and the number of year is in accordance to their roles and responsibility.

Yes it does. There is no way in this world you can treat 4 women equally. You can't give =N=100,000 to one wife and then =N=500,0000 to the other and expect there to be peace. Your example doesn't do the subject any justice. If you had said both law students undertook law, one finished in 6 years and another finished in 8 years because his lecturer failed him, would have been a true example. Here is your Quran on the subject:

Quran (4:129) - "Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire". Your Quran says it is impossible to be fair amongst women.

However, even though islam allow men to have at most 4 wives, there are conditions that must be met for such to be valid. The Quran clearly said, if you can't not be just between them, marry only one

Again, here is your Quran - Quran (4:129) - "Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women


IN SUMMARY

The practice of polygamy is a mathematical contradiction to the principle that men and women are to be treated equally. The Quran's allowance of multiple wives is therefore somewhat of a challenge to the contemporary muslim like yourself, who wants us to believe that Islam encourages gender equality. Often, the first line of defense is a weak claim that Islam is the only religion to encourage monogamy based on the snippet of verse 4:3 which says "marry only one."

In fact, this is simply not true. In the first place, the New Testament plainly states that the model Christian is the "husband of but one woman" to whom he should be faithful (ie. no exception for sex slaves, as the Quran allows). Secondly, the very Quranic verse from which the fragment "marry only one" is pulled is actually the very one that goes on to say that up to four wives are allowed as long as they "seem good" to the man!

There is no where in the Quran that allows an existing wife (or wives) any veto power in her husband's choice of additional sexual partners. In fact, it discourages it by twice presenting an episode from Muhammad's live in which his wives angered Allah with their jealousy.

There are worse things in the world than polygamy (which has been practiced by many cultures outside of Islam), but it is shocking to see a religion place such high value on a man's base sexual desire that he is permitted to bring other women into the marriage bed just to satisfy his lust. As pointed out, women are not allowed the same freedom to seek sexual satisfaction from alternate sources should their husband lose interest or capacity.

The Western world has decided that polygamy devalues a woman's worth. In Islam, however, a woman's worth is the sum of her sexual value to her husband

bilms: ?

Can you address the questions I raised?

bilms: Pls note, if you could not find your answer in the thread about the status of women in Islam, you free to hold unto your ignorance....its a choice. However, if you have any meaningful question, feel free to ask.

Thanks

I asked you: Then why is a man allowed to marry 4 wives and a woman isn't in Islam? Or why is a woman testimony isn't as valid as that of a man?

The Quran says in Surah 38:44 - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Is a woman allowed to beat a man as well? Why would a man beat his wife? She is flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone.

Here is another incident in the Hadith:

Muslim (4:2127) - Muhammad struck his favorite wife, Aisha, in the chest one evening when she left the house without his permission. Aisha narrates, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain."

Why would the prophet hit his wife in the chest?

Curlyjay: so much for whatever religion you serve...speaking without knowledge..perhaps, ur holy book taught you to point accusing fingers at others.

Why not educate him. The topic is not about his holy book. It's about the status of women under Islam. Please provide information in line with the thread

NL member: ^^^
Better still why are women seen as retar ded evil omens in Islam?

Sahih Bukhari Volume 004, Book 052, Hadith Number 110.
Narated By 'Abdullah bin 'Umar : I heard the Prophet saying. "Evil omen is in three things: The horse, the woman and the house."

Sahih Bukhari Volume 003, Book 048, Hadith Number 826.
Sahih Bukhari Book 48. The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind."

I will like the poster to explain the equality he spoke about. Preferably from the Quran

Hi,

You can spot good programmers by their work. For example, what industry in Nigeria use software written by Nigerians?, that should be too hard to find

g9kate: NOTE: This is not another programming language war. I need advice and opinions from 'ogas @ d top' in d house: I'm a fair php user and I'm picking up python recently. I want to develop a beautiful real time web app which requires high scalability and high API & DB transactions, i learnt both framework have lotsa similarities, i'm stucked in the decision to choose one of the two, can anybody help?

Which language are you more productive in? I find Python syntax simpler and easier. PHP is very popular and has tons of documentation and very similar to C. So, it's your call basically. Another point is with hosting - php is on almost all shared/reseller hosting. Django and Python will need their own VPS or machine to work on. Both frameworks are solid and used extensively. At the end of the day, it's the one you are comfortable with and can produce results with