₦airaland Forum

Ramos16:
Again, they do not believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, that is why they appeal to Muslims

Why not go to their website to confirm what they believe: http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20090401/is-jesus-god/

They don't believe in the trinity and they don't believe Jesus is equal to God

Jessicha:
I did not ask for link , simple qwesion : Jesus have a God he is subjected to ? Yes Or No

I can answer that question like this - In Revelation 1:8: It says, I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty". Is that Jehovah God or Jesus?

bulldoza:
Only a big stupíd senseless Morônic foól believe that Jesus christ is God

Gosh!
Are you crazy or just stupíd?

Jesus = God?

Son you're a foól

When you say Christ is not God, what do you mean?

Wumipaul:
Good people can we just stop all this arguement. Jehovah's witnes are all around you. They will be glad to reason with you from the scripture. Thanks

And we welcome the reason and the exercise of objectivity from the Bible.

For the Jehovah witnesses, I have a question:

1. Was Jesus resurrected as a spirit or as a human with a body?

Sarang:
Jesus wasn't created?

Where in the Bible did it say Jesus was created?

Sarang:
He said it..That He is Jesus's throne.
You wear glass?
Did you read the full verse.

Hmm

Madam, please address the points I have raised. When you start name calling, I will not engage you. All you have done is asked questions and evaded answering mine. Please do justice to the questions I have raised, I have done the same with yours

Wumipaul:
so how many true God do we have?

There is only one God.

Nnaabros:
yes, the explanation for those verses are quite detailed, so I have to share articles that explains them. Please take time to read them. And these explanation were gotten from our,(JEHOVAHS WITNESSES) study of the Bible, and corroborated by scholars. Regarding john 20:27-29


John 20:28 (RS) reads: “Thomas answered him, ‘My Lord and my God!’”
There is no objection to referring to Jesus as “God,” if this is what Thomas had in mind. Such would be in harmony with Jesus’ own quotation from the Psalms in which powerful men, judges, were addressed as “gods.” (John 10:34, 35, RS; Ps. 82:1-6) Of course, Christ occupies a position far higher than such men. Because of the uniqueness of his position in relation to Jehovah, at John 1:18 (NW) Jesus is referred to as “the only-begotten god.” (See also Ro, By.) Isaiah 9:6 (RS) also prophetically describes Jesus as “Mighty God,” but not as the Almighty God. All of this is in harmony with Jesus’ being described as “a god,” or “divine,” at John 1:1 (NW, AT).
The context helps us to draw the right conclusion from this. Shortly before Jesus’ death, Thomas had heard Jesus’ prayer in which he addressed his Father as “the only true God.” (John 17:3, RS) After Jesus’ resurrection Jesus had sent a message to his apostles, including Thomas, in which he had said: “I am ascending . . . to my God and your God.” (John 20:17, RS) After recording what Thomas said when he actually saw and touched the resurrected Christ, the apostle John stated: “These are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name.” (John 20:31, RS) So, if anyone has concluded from Thomas’ exclamation that Jesus is himself “the only true God” or that Jesus is a Trinitarian “God the Son,” he needs to look again at what Jesus himself said (vs. 17) and at the conclusion that is clearly stated by the apostle John (vs. 31).

There is a big difference when the Bible refers to us as "gods" and when it refers to Jesus as "God". In the same way, I can say my daughter was the "queen" of prom night as to be saying my daughter is the 'Queen' of England.

Your text is not doing justice to what is been asked here. Clearly "god" and "God" are not the same. I find it sad that you have to refer to these opinions to explain the Bible to you.

We all know why the jews wanted to kill Jesus, because He equated himself with God. That runs throughout scripture, to claim otherwise is dishonest. John 5:18 is clear on that.

Sarang:
Jehovah called Jesus God?
And you are so sure its him saying it?

Thomas called Jesus My God and My Lord because to Thomas Jesus deserves that much.

You are right he said to his Son,God is your throne. And in your mind it means Jesus is God?

This is not me saying it - This is the Bible saying it? You can't pick and choose what you want to believe. It's either God said it or He didn't. It's either Thomas said it or he didn't. The question is - how do you reconcile it?

dolphinheart

The word was [b]with God, the word was also that same God? [/b]

It says "And the Word was God".

That above was inserted into the translations, it is not in most manuscripts. Its a false/wrong translation, that is why most translations dnt put what you quoted in there versions.

Which manuscript is it in and which is it not in? Or which manuscripts is it not in and which is it in?

And the next verse (verse 9)continues the word of the father: you have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God has set above your companions[/b]by anointing you with the oil of joy.
The father is the [b]God of jesus therefore jesus is not the almighty God.

Hebrews 1:8-9: Is lifted from Psalm 45:6-7: It's a reference to the deity of Jesus Christ as God and His superiority over other beings. I am not claiming Jesus is Almighty God as I would claim that I and my father are the same. I am claiming He is God in that He commands worship and He can forgive sins. Only God holds that position and no one else

To my point - Thomas after seeing the resurrected Jesus said - My Lord and my God. Thomas was a jew and knew that there was only one true God yet He called Jesus God.

So, I think people get it twisted when we say Jesus is God. God exists in more than one form at the same time.

Sarang:
Sorry 2nd Cor 4:4

Satan was referred to as "a god". The emphasis is "a god". The Bible calls us "gods" - Psalm 82:6. You and I know that is not the context of the verse in Hebrew - here is God the father addressing Jesus as God "with a capital G".

Hebrews 1:8: "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom".

The question again is why would God Almighty call Jesus God?

I have another question. Thomas in the Bible called Jesus "My Lord and My God". Why would Thomas who was a believing Jew equate Jesus with God Almighty?

Nnaabros:
Hebrews 1:8:

RS reads: “Of the Son he says, ‘Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever.’” (KJ, NE, TEV, Dy, JB, NAB have similar renderings.) However, NW reads: “But with reference to the Son: ‘God is your throne forever and ever.’” (AT, Mo, TC, By convey the same idea.)
Which rendering is harmonious with the context? The preceding verses say that God is speaking, not that he is being addressed; and the following verse uses the expression “God, thy God,” showing that the one addressed is not the Most High God but is a worshiper of that God. Hebrews 1:8 quotes from Psalm 45:6, which originally was addressed to a human king of Israel. Obviously, the Bible writer of this psalm did not think that this human king was Almighty God. Rather, Psalm 45:6, in RS, reads “Your divine throne.” (NE says, “Your throne is like God’s throne.” JP [verse 7]: “Thy throne given of God.”) Solomon, who was possibly the king originally addressed in Psalm 45, was said to sit “upon Jehovah’s throne.” (1 Chron. 29:23, NW) In harmony with the fact that God is the “throne,” or Source and Upholder of Christ’s kingship, Daniel 7:13, 14 and Luke 1:32 show that God confers such authority on him.
Hebrews 1:8, 9 quotes from Psalm 45:6, 7, concerning which the Bible scholar B. F. Westcott states: “The LXX. admits of two renderings: [ho the·osʹ] can be taken as a vocative in both cases (Thy throne, O God, . . . therefore, O God, Thy God . . . ) or it can be taken as the subject (or the predicate) in the first case (God is Thy throne, or Thy throne is God . . . ), and in apposition to [ho the·osʹ sou] in the second case (Therefore God, even Thy God . . . ). . . . It is scarcely possible that [’Elo·himʹ] in the original can be addressed to the king. The presumption therefore is against the belief that [ho the·osʹ] is a vocative in the LXX. Thus on the whole it seems best to adopt in the first clause the rendering: God is Thy throne (or, Thy throne is God), that is ‘Thy kingdom is founded upon God, the immovable Rock.’”—The Epistle to the Hebrews (London, 1889), pp. 25, 26.

1 John 5:7, 8:

KJ reads: “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.” (Dy also includes this Trinitarian passage.) However, NW does not include the words “in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth.” (RS, NE, TEV, JB, NAB also leave out the Trinitarian passage.)
Regarding this Trinitarian passage, textual critic F. H. A. Scrivener wrote: “We need not hesitate to declare our conviction that the disputed words were not written by St. John: that they were originally brought into Latin copies in Africa from the margin, where they had been placed as a pious and orthodox gloss on ver. 8: that from the Latin they crept into two or three late Greek codices, and thence into the printed Greek text, a place to which they had no rightful claim.”—A Plain Introduction to the Criticism of the New Testament (Cambridge, 1883, third ed.), p. 654.

You still haven't answered the question. You are copying and pasting the responses from scholars who don't believe in the Bible. I am asking you to address the points I have raised by yourself. While you are at it:

Can you respond to why Thomas in the Bible referred to Jesus as: My Lord and my God John 20:27-29. Thomas was a Jew and knew that associating any person to God Almighty was sin yet he called Jesus God, can you explain in your own words.

Jephz:
sorry this reply wasn't for u ...twas a mistake ...twas meant for d one who said "may God forgive me my sin" .....sorry

No shaking

Sarang:
I will respond with a question..bear with me.

1cor 4:4 "The god of this System of things...

Here the bible refered to Satan as a god too.

Is Satan God?

I am not sure what you are referring to. 1 Corinthians 4:4 says = For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justify but he that judgeth me is the Lord. Can you please confirm what verse and chapter you are referring to?

Nnaabros:
Does the fact that worship is given to Jesus prove that he is God?

At Hebrews 1:6, the angels are instructed to “worship” Jesus, according to the rendering of RS, TEV, KJ, JB, and NAB. NW says “do obeisance to.” At Matthew 14:33, Jesus’ disciples are said to have “worshiped” him, according to RS, TEV, KJ; other translations say that they “showed him reverence” (NAB), “bowed down before him” (JB), “fell at his feet” (NE), “did obeisance to him” (NW).
The Greek word rendered “worship” is pro·sky·neʹo, which A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature says was also “used to designate the custom of prostrating oneself before a person and kissing his feet, the hem of his garment, the ground.” (Chicago, 1979, Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich, Danker; second English edition; p. 716) This is the term used at Matthew 14:33 to express what the disciples did toward Jesus; at Hebrews 1:6 to indicate what the angels are to do toward Jesus; at Genesis 22:5 in the Greek Septuagint to describe what Abraham did toward Jehovah and at Genesis 23:7 to describe what Abraham did, in harmony with the custom of the time, toward people with whom he was doing business; at 1 Kings 1:23 in the Septuagint to describe the prophet Nathan’s action on approaching King David.
At Matthew 4:10 (RS), Jesus said: “You shall worship [from pro·sky·neʹo] the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.” (At Deuteronomy 6:13, which Jesus is evidently here quoting, appears the personal name of God, the Tetragrammaton.) In harmony with that, we must understand that it is pro·sky·neʹo with a particular attitude of heart and mind that should be directed only toward God.

Where did I mention worship. I quoted specific verses and instead you you addressing them, you didn't.

Why would God the father call Jesus God?

Hebrews 1:8: "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom"

Can you please answer that?

Jephz:
thank you ...I quoted u bcus u said God should forgive me my sin as if I said a wrong tin

I never said such, can you tell me or quote where I said such?

Sarang:
Well Jesus said it himself,My Father is greater than I am.
Jesus has a father and he prayed to his father to glorify him alongside the glory he had before.
I will ask you,dont you have a father? Are you your Father?

I have a Father and I am not my Father but my Father and I are human beings. Enough about me and my father, Here is what God the Father said about Jesus:

Hebrews 1:8: "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom".

Here God the Father is calling the Son, Jesus, “God”. Can you tell me why God the Father will call Jesus God?

The issue then is why would Jesus say - The Father is greater than I. The answer is quite simple: Subservience in role does not equate to subservience in essence - let me explain.

Consider an employer/employee relationship. The employer has the right to make demands of the employee, and the employee has the obligation to serve the employer. The roles clearly define a subservient relationship. However, both people are still human beings and share in the same human nature. There is no difference between the two as to their essence; they stand as equals. The fact that one is an employer and the other is an employee does nothing to alter the essential equality of these two individuals as human beings. The same can be said of the members of the Trinity. All three members (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) are essentially equal; i.e., they are all divine in nature. However, in the grand plan of redemption, they play certain roles, and these roles define authority and subservience. The Father commands the Son, and the Father and the Son command the Holy Spirit.

It is stated clearly in the Bible:

1 John:5:7: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one"

Can you please respond?

Jessicha:
Jesus is God , in what sense ? Do you mean Almighty God ? Thats A NO!!!! Because scripture reveal Jesus himself HAVE A GOD under whom he is subjected to ( 1 cor 15 : 24 - 28 )

I responded to this several times, here it is again:

https://www.nairaland.com/2720878/jehovahs-witnesses-17-facts-people/6#39812913

Jephz:
Read John 14:31

I have responded to you 1001 times already, my response is here:

https://www.nairaland.com/2720878/jehovahs-witnesses-17-facts-people/6#39812913

Please give me your input

Jephz:
pls explain this to me John 14:28"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

I already explained this, please read my response to you on this: https://www.nairaland.com/2720878/jehovahs-witnesses-17-facts-people/6#39812913

Jephz:
if u really read d bible u will knw that Jesus Christ is not God... God is diff from Jesus Christ

Really? Care to share

freeage7:
I am not a witness, but when it comes to evangelism na them be number one.

You are right and other Christians should learn from this.

Nnaabros:
Yes. We believe in Jesus, who said: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6) We have faith that Jesus came to earth from heaven and gave his perfect human life as a ransom sacrifice. (Matthew 20:28) His death and resurrection make it possible for those exercising faith in him to gain everlasting life. (John 3:16) We also believe that Jesus is now ruling as King of God’s heavenly Kingdom, which will soon bring peace to the entire earth. (Revelation 11:15) However, we take Jesus at his word when he said: “The Father is greater than I am.” (John 14:28) So we do not worship Jesus, as we do not believe that he is Almighty God.

You should read your Bible more as it is pointed clearly why Jesus doesn't equate Himself with God. It's covered perfectly Philippians 2:5-11, it reads:

5. Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus
6. who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God "a thing to be grasped"
7. but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men
8. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
9. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name
10. so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11. and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

If that is not clear, here is God the Father i.e. Jehovah calling Jesus God:

Hebrews 1:8: "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom"

The issue then is why would Jesus say - The Father is greater than I. The answer is quite simple: Subservience in role does not equate to subservience in essence - let me explain.

Consider an employer/employee relationship. The employer has the right to make demands of the employee, and the employee has the obligation to serve the employer. The roles clearly define a subservient relationship. However, both people are still human beings and share in the same human nature. There is no difference between the two as to their essence; they stand as equals. The fact that one is an employer and the other is an employee does nothing to alter the essential equality of these two individuals as human beings. The same can be said of the members of the Trinity. All three members (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) are essentially equal; i.e., they are all divine in nature. However, in the grand plan of redemption, they play certain roles, and these roles define authority and subservience. The Father commands the Son, and the Father and the Son command the Holy Spirit.

It is stated clearly in the Bible:

1 John:5:7: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one"

I hope this clears it up for you

dacovajnr:
Yepa! Wetin you dey talk?how can you say Jesus Christ is God..haba! It's now obvious that you know nothing about Christianity..so you have no right to criticise their Doctrine...and. Point of correction Jesus Christ is the Son of God..

I don't know if you are a Christian It's Christian belief that Jesus Christ is God. It's runs through the entire Bible. I will give you some examples:

1. John 1:1: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”. The Word is identified later in the same chapter of John 1 verse 14
2. John 1:14: And the Word was made flesh.

If that is not clear, another place in the Bible states:

3. 1 John:5:7: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one"

Here is God the Father calling Jesus God:

Hebrews 1:8: “But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom”.

So yes - Jesus is God not as in the same person but the same form that exist at the same time

chrisbaba1:
I remember travelling to england and we had this youth week in reedemed so we went to evangelize in the streets knocking doors also, until we came to a white mans house, he recieved all of us into his living room, gave us water and told us to preach, eventually he started talking too and we got to find out he was a JW pastor (if i recall right), he gave us a bible too. Je hova witness are nice people but what do you people believe that is different from the mainstream christian, that is what i need to know?

Yes - they don't believe in certain tenants that is biblical.

You can't be with someone and still be that same person.

The Godhead is not a person, it's an office. John cleared this up for us:

1 John:5:7: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

God has no beggining, all other things where created through jesus, he was Gods master worker . Prov 8 : 22- 31.
Jesus has always remained subjected to the father, the almighty God, in heaven or on earth, and it was not a position he wished to grabe but has always remained loyal, despite being in the same nature with God.

Jesus is the same nature with God and is God in nature as well. The Bible makes it simple:

Hebrews 1:8: "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

Here God the Father is calling the Son, Jesus, God. God exist in more than one form at the same time. That's simple biblical teaching

Septre:
My issues with jehovah's witness are

1 They dont like praying with other christains
2 They invite you to their programs but will not come for yours when you invite them
3 They dont usually allow members to marry christains frm other denominations

I believe that Jesus is the Son of God and he died for our sins and i try as much as i can to emulate him. Now why will a fellow christain do all the above to me cos i dont worship in the same place as him? Is it not annoying? Jesus told his disciples that he who is not against us is with us. So why dont jwits see other christains as part of them 'us' just like Jesus. In heaven there will only be saints, but there will be no denomination no catholic, anglican, winners, reedem or christ embassy so why cant we be more united?

I also have a problem with jwits not accepting blood transfusion. They would rather die than accept it. Makes no sense to me.

I love awake magazine though and one of my best friend is jwits. He is selfless

They are taught not to associate with others from other beliefs apart from preaching. They have sent many of their senior fellows to my house and after we open the Bible together and show them what they claim - most of them stop coming back. They believe that their leaders are anointed and know the Bible and they listen without and doubt what their head-quarters tell them.

Nicolars:
Can u snap and send 1 of those literatures where it is written


Cus d man taking me bible lessons is also a jw.... What he says condratics what u'r saying

When JW refer to John 1:1, they tell you that the original greek didn't say "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God". They say - in the beginning was the Word and the Word was a god. Further more, they deny the trinity and it's right on their website;

http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/trinity/

The Bible said: 1 John:5:7: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one"

If any JW tells you that they believe in the Trinity, they are deceiving you

Nicolars:
Jw ar actually not bad

People just critisizes them bcus they preach d truth

And wat now surprises me is dat, no matter wat they say, they always back it up with d bible, hw come they ar false xtians

Several things you don't know about Jehovah witnesses:

1. Many of their founders have predicted the world would come to an end several times - It didn't. These are actual Jehovah witness publications. They predicted the end of the world and the time Jesus would began his rule in 1878, 1914. They have made several other predictions that haven't come to pass. The Bible said you will know a false prophet based on the predictions he made. If he says something and it doesn't come to pass, that prophet was never from God.
2. They claim that only 144,000 people will go to heaven. The Bible never claimed only 144,000 will go to heaven. This is another false statement.
3. They always change their stance on blood transfusion - they have banned it for several years, now they are allowing it, later then will change it.
4. They teach that Jesus was just a man while on earth. While in heaven He was and is, Michael the Archangel. The Bible never claimed such
5. The reject and deny the trinity

There are so many things that JW differ with biblical Christian belief. That being said, I respect them and their dedication - others can learn from it

Nicolars:
That's actually what you think

They also believe in trinity

No they don't. Your are being dis-honest if you say they do. Their awake magazines and releases are filled with the denial of such

yazach:
Have finish your assignment?

When you develop some seriousness and honestly, come back and engage me.