₦airaland Forum

I did 170 kmph with 89 benz 190 from PH to Calabar when i met a crazy guy with 2005 EOD trying to insult my customized 98 machine, i used the auto downshift transmission in most cases.Because of the numerous bends , he was too scared to exceed that limit too.

I did 180 kmph reluctantly, but cautiously with my Benz c180(sport version) 94-2000 model from PH to Uyo and vice versa, same day.I really needed to go and come back that same day.I was just too scared and never allowed it to exceed 180kmph(was always asking myself, what if the tyre shld burst?), else the ride was asking for more with it cute stability and lowered handling, it felt as if i was driving cls Benz. Besides, i really needed to test this machine for the first time after purchase.

jahjehova: my broda. Gud am. I'd also appreciate the service manual. Plz send to deleonipede@gmail.com. D one I av is german. I want 2 avoid any roadside mecho visit. Tanx bro.

@ Kuntash; Thanks so much for the manual.. cheers!!

Trac: I will take your statement as though it is.

In the first place: uninstall the wiring harness. What you will do is to go to the local hardware store and get yourself wires capable of the task to build a harness. in other words, it must exceed what MB put in there. That is to include the ability to withstand the heat without degrading or cracking in a few years. Detach the terminals and other hardware from the worn harness and install to the new harness. As you would have concluded at this point, an electrical savvy person is one fit for this job. Cost of wires should be about $30 to $90 (can't really estimate) minus labour. Cost to buy at Mercedes? $1100+ and you still get the same bio-degradable harness that will still go bad.

While the harness was going bad, many symptoms should have preceded (including poor drivability).

ECU: there is nothing wrong with it. For the ECU to need replacement, you have to deliberately sabotage it. The issue presently before you needs to be addressed first. A relay has been ceased functionality at the expense of the ECU.

All the best:

Hello Trac, I really appreciate your response to this: Really i was faced with one all kinds of poor drivability, it all happened so fast; jerking; atimes suddenly fast and slow acceleration; temp gauge stopped working; fuel gauge and my speedometer etc.

I would have tried all you have stated above but this response rather came late..as i have already got the ECU 015(as the old ECU wouldn't start the car..some local mechanics had already tampered so much with the old process so much that the car wouldn't start anymore) and a new harness wire(the Asian spec of newer model, its claimed that these ones doesn't go bad, that its actually a modification of the previous poor European model..dnt know how true this could be) , the car actually started off on the 5th of Feb., i got on the wheel and started cruising once again, it felts so fine,silence and faster than ever.The handling is yum!! yum!!

But i still have one issue ; that of the temperature rising so fast on just a few minute idling until the water get boiled and spills through the waste hose...
I bleed the cooling system today in a local car wash after having flushed(tho not thorough) the radiator with their pressure water. Besides, there was no thermostat(the original owners may have removed it before i bought the car).I'll get a 'Behr' thermostat for it on saturday.

I also tested the water-pump and observed that it still pumps water..I drive around in the hot afternoon and the situation seems to improve a little bit, atleast its not boiling anymore, but the temperature is still on the high side(about 87 approaching 100 on the temp reading) and i doubt if it can withstand Port-Harcourt hold up..

I'll still go for a thorough steam wash on saturday too.

Trace, can the removal of a thermostat in a well functional Benz c180(who never had overheat before)suddenly caused it to start developing overheat?

My fuel gauge either goes up or down or at the centre , even when i have full tank

Trac, i'm happy that you responded to these ,i'm still expecting more form you , once again thanku very much i appreciate your kind response

yungboss: one question: when you topped the coolant, did you bleed the cooling system, you may just be having airlocks in there....

I just did that today in a local car wash after having flushed(tho not thorough) the radiator with their pressure water. Besides, there was no thermostat(the original owners may have removed it before i bought the car, or, the mechanic boys may have removed it, whichever!).I'll get a 'Behr' thermostat for it on saturday.

I also tested the water-pump and observed that it still pumps water..I drive around in the hot afternoon and the situation seems to improve a little bit, atleast its not boiling anymore, but the temperature is still on the high side and i doubt if it can withstand Port-Harcourt hold up..

I'll still go for a thorough steam wash on saturday too..Do you have anything else to suggest?

Guys, can removing a thermostat in a well functional Benz c180 caused it to start developing overheat suddenly?

Thanks for your contribution, i appreciate

abdulkadir: @ au.hanson, Gd to know ur ride is back on d road.
ikenna posted on the peugeot thread on how to check if ur thermostat is working.

Thanks Abdulkadir for this info, but i have checked thro all the peugeot thread without seeing anything on this,, can u pls just send me the link as soon as u can? Infact, i want to remove the thermostat by 2moro morning b4 going to work as a temporary measures, tho i know this is not a gud practice,but it will enable me move around before i finally do a thorough steam wash on saturday and a thorough check on my water pump etc, and give it a permanent solution.

smartchoice: try testing the ecu on another vehicle to ascertain its fitness

Thanks for your advice. The Old ECU018 didn't work out,i finally got the ECU 015 and a new harness wire , the car started off today and i got on the wheel and started cruising again, it felts so fine,silence and faster than ever.The handling is yum!! yum!! But i still have one issue ; that of the temperature rising so fast on just a few minute idling until the water get boiled and spills through the waste hose..i dnt know if i should change the thermostat, or, if i should flush the radiator and go for a steam wash?

@ kuntash; you have just spoken my mind there, its most likely going to be the partition between the engine section and the interior.

I had this experience when the ac guy who fix my drier removed a lots of pad from that partition and the cabling hoses that block those holds from heat and dust and never put them back(to him it didn't matter. They cant really work there without damaging and removing those things, By that they solve one problem but create another for u). The heat that normally affected me then at thick PH hold up was enough to done a pear and cooked an egg.. not until i went to compare that partition with a non tempered one was i able to know what was amist overthere. I had to drive to a toks spare part village and look for every components, to the tiniest rubber and fix them back one by one did that problem stop. It was so bad that even under ac i could perceive the smokes coming from a smoking vehicle in front of me.

So Benny, you can do same by comparing ur vehicle to a non tempered one and fix that yourself if you may want to do a good job there, if you have not already done so, cheers

kuntash: Benny, I hope the electrician hasnt done something wrong there, however, as you can read from my posts, I am rather new to Mbenz and thrilled by its performance and ruggedness which appeared vague to me all these while thus I opened this thread, even though I am a Toyota person kinda; However, when I can get Siena online I would refer him here, its like he's been quite busy lately.

From ur problem description it appears the partition between the engine section and the interior was damaged as a result of the fire, I would advice u look at it from the engine side - particularly where the vacuum hoses or heater core hose protrudes out out from the interior, these are likely area vulnerable to leaks etc, if you see any leak try seal them on ur own first and confirm,

Meanwhile, someone was referring me to a Benz workshop(mech and electrician) around Ilupeju or so, I hope to get the correct details and post them here as well.

as per selling?, hmmmmm are u sure u can cope with the difference? lol


all the best

i had similar issue once with my 190 auto trnamission when allowed my transmission fluid to run dry(actually it was getting less gradually without my noticing it since it doesn't use to short). After changing the fluid,the filter and the seal the gear will refuse to select , the revving will go so high that atimes I'll have to stop and restart the car as i wasn't comfortable wt it and the noise. So i started taking it easy and patiently with it other than my normal quick drive , from there it started changing gradually for weeks until after a few month the system got itself normalized, then i swear never to let anyone touch it again, nor the oil to ever run short of gauge. I only remembered that i had such issue when i saw your comment, though i may not know how to explain this, than to only assume that that system hate being touched in Benz

kuntash: @ Siena et al,

Last week, I did changed my transmission fluid cos the colour was different from how it should be (red-like I think) it was really dark. so the filter and the oil was changed, I used Harco transmission fluid (they say its one of the best),

its been fine since I changed it, and the mechanic notice a vacuum hose that was removed from the gear box and fixed it back- That corrected the hard jerk when gear is engaged either in reverse or drive.

but this morning I noticed the gear only stayed on 2nd and didnt change further, but as the engine temp got to around 50 degrees C. , it started working fine,

pls what could be the issue? I dont think its normal. pls kindly advice,

nony30: Seriously,guys ‎u neeD τ̲̅ȍ do away with 504/505s.even when I'm thinking 406 is out dated and trying τ̲̅ȍ get a 407! •̸№ insult meant pls but those cars belong τ̲̅ȍ d museums now.

Guy, i feel you, but looking at that ride once again u know its an asset to behold, it'll turn heads anywhere it goes..and you'll feel better in it than even a new ride becos u know the resources pumped into it and the fit you would have achieved by such restoration, both in horsepower, handling and comfort etc,if you are a car enthusiast.

I have a 1988 benz 190 (with vboot230, 2.3 litre engine, with customized AVG body and reenforced suspension system), that i find very fascinating, difficult to let go because each time i get into it, i feel on top of the world.. and i can comfortably cruise it to anywhere distance notwithstanding with peace of mind and contest the road with any ride, year not withstanding(i have done that b4 wt a 2005 EOD, Camry,corolla, CRV etc). Tell me what would make me fling this ride,which is still very clean, even when i have recently bought a w202 benz c class.

Have u heard of the guy who transplanted 2012 turbo diesel 6 cylinder c class engine into a 1990 benz 190 in US? and it performed better than the cclass 2012 turbo diesel counterpart, with better MPG,torque and speed? He feels better in it, and he is now customizing same for some enthusiast overthere; or the lady celebrity who customized her 1980s toyota supra to achieve 1600 horsepower with a spending of over 200,000.00 dollars; or the millionaire who restore his 1955 benz sls with 1.4 million dollar? There's joy in these things, just like you would have watch a world cup.

I love that Peugeot 504 customized!!!

Man, i long for this ride, its more than restoration ride..i feel like getting one kind of this lion now for me and my dad

Muoweta: Found something 2 share with fellow lion owners

smartchoice: Mine is manual, with an 015 ECU, changed the harness wire, refusing to start happened to me for a week and rewires and mech were almost having a field day until my parts dealer intervened and started the car, changing the injectors (which pple call nozzles) and the harness wire....he also used an 100amps battery to start it, after about 5minutes of continuous cranking. about the 018 I dont have an idea now.

Hello Smartchoice, Just to inform you that the ECU(serial 018 that was sent for repairs) was finally brought to me..it a kind of want to start the car, rolls and stop,it actually started for a very brief second and stop. The mechanic boy tried all He could, blow the nuzzles, change plugs, tested all that he knows (including the fuel pump)but the car only barely start and stop, doesn't steam..guess i would have to change the harness wire, and call for the ECU 015 backup in case it still refuses to start, tho i don't know if there is anything else i could do before asking for these items(harness wire and ECU 015) to serve myself this cost? I can't wait to start cruising this machine again.

Thanku very much smartchoice on the clarification of this info..i read it sometime somewhere but never really understood as i do now...In order words , does it mean that those of us over here(in Nigeria) that uses 20w50 are really killing our engine with friction at early morning startups?.. could that be the reason why mobil1(0w40) is recommended for almost all Mercedes benz i come accross?

smartchoice: for a complete breakdown READ THIS:

Which Oil to Use

Detergent Oil
Virtually all modern multi-weight oils are detergent oils. Detergent oil, cleans the soot of the internal engine parts and suspends the soot particles in the oil. The particles are too small to be trapped by the oil filter and stay in the oil until you change it. These particles are what makes the oil turn darker. These tiny particles do not harm your engine. When the oil becomes saturated with soot particles and is unable to suspend any more, the particles remain on the engine parts. Fortunately, with the current oil change intervals the oil is changed long before the oil is saturated.

Non-detergent oil, such as SAE 30, is not used in modern passenger vehicle engines. It is still used in some gasoline engines such as lawnmowers.

Oil Viscosity
The viscosity of multi-weight motor oil is specified using two numbers. The first number is the viscosity when the oil is cold. This is followed by the letter W (which stands for winter, not weight), which is followed by the number that indicates the viscosity when the oil is at operating temperature. The higher the number the thicker the oil.

Viscosity Modifiers
In order to protect an engine at start time, the oil needs to be thinner when cold so it flows freely. Viscosity modifiers are added to the base stock to make the oil flow better when cold, without making the oil too thin when hot.

Climate Considerations
Owner's manuals and service manuals will specify the acceptable oil to use at various temperatures. In warm climates, 10W30 is usually an acceptable alternative to the preferred 5W30 and may be used without measurable adverse effects. In the olden days, before multi-weight oils, it was common to have a winter oil and a summer oil. This is no longer necessary, but if you normally use 10W30 because you live in a warm climate then be sure to switch to 5W30 if you plan on using the vehicle in very cold weather.

5W30 versus 10W30
Virtually all new passenger vehicles sold in the U.S. use either 5W30 or 10W30 oil. The difference between the two is that the 5W30 flows better when cold, so if you live in a cold climate or operate your vehicle in a cold climate during the winter months, you should use 5W30 if it is the preferred oil for your vehicle. If you live in a sub-tropical climate and don't operate your vehicle in cold climates, then 10W30 is acceptable as long as the manufacturer specifies that it is permissible to use it.

Is there a disadvantage to using an oil that flows better when cold, i.e. 5W30 versus 10W30?
Sometimes, but usually not. The crux of the issue is this: the bigger the difference between the cold oil viscosity and the hot oil viscosity, the more the volume of viscosity modifiers and the less the volume of base stock. If you are good about following the manufacturer's recommended oil change interval then stick with the 5W30 if that is the preferred oil for your vehicle, even if 10W30 is acceptable in warmer climates. Older cars may specify 10W30 only. This is because they need a little more viscosity when cold to keep a protective film on the cylinder walls. There have been instances where the larger amount of viscosity modifiers that are present in 5W30 have broken down due to excessive heat and have left carbon deposits on the valves, but this is extremely rare. The proper fix would be to reduce the excessive heat, but the workaround was to use an oil with less viscosity modifiers.

Why do many oil change places, even dealerships, use 10W30 instead of 5W30, even when 5W30 is preferred?
According to www.cartalk.com (see link in the references section), as well as many mechanics who have posted on usenet, 10W30 is the closest thing to a one size fits all oil. Many older vehicles need 10W30, and most newer vehicles are okay with it in warmer climates. Since many garages don't want to have multiple tanks of bulk oil they choose to carry only 10W30. The advice that Tom & Ray give is correct, 'it would not be a disaster if you used 10W30, but given a choice, go with the manufacturer's recommendation and use the 5W30.'

Thicker is Better Myth
The reason that oil viscosities have gotten thinner is because bearing clearances have become smaller. Using thicker oils will interfere with oil flow and the oil pressure will increase. In a worn engine it may be okay to increase the viscosity of the oil because the bearing clearances have become larger.

Thank you very much Ikenna, Please which one is phase II.. I dnt mind the 'sr' or 'phase II' , if its clean ..where do u think i can get that? , and at what price? I dnt even mind a 406 if it's affordable and clean?

Ikenna351: Tokunbo XN1 engine can be found at Onitsha, including a clean full 504 body. But you may end up spending more than 200k to get those two.

The best engine to rebuild, as far as Nigeria is concerned, is XN1, including other Peugot engines. They have original standard piston & sleeve set in the market. But very expensive. But if one can afford it, you will enjoy it more than the tokunbo engine. But it also depends on the condition of crankshaft. Since its PAN production, the crankshaft will be inferior one. He may have to buy the foreign one that has drilled holes, for proper oil circulation and lubrication on the crank journals and bearings.

Rebuilding XN1 with original parts will cost nore than tokunbo engine. Am talking about 100k +. Because, i dont know the condition of the engine block, camshaft & cylinder head. All that may have to be changed. But like i said, if you rebuild an XN1 with original parts, the engine will start running as it was when the car was bought brand new. I have experienced it.

Buying an engine and replacing the body sounds like a project. Its not something you will expect your dad to go through at his age. Best thing will be to buy a clean running 504 at that price range and work towards replacing the engine with a tokunbo one, when you can afford one. If i were you, i would look for a GL for him. He will love it. But getting a GL in good condition will be very difficult, almost like impossible. But if your dad is not a stunt man, get an SR or phase II 504 for him. The GL is for those that like catching fun on the wheel. The model posseses so much power and handling for an I4.

Ikenna.

Hello guys, i have a benz c180 esprit, manual transmission that wud only start when she likes to do so. Just recently i discover that the wire harness were completely bad(expired),the mechanics are having a fill day with it and have even started learning work with my car such that they have affected the brain box badly; putting the car in a state of comma( the car wouldn't start anymore). An auto electrician with a similar ride advices that he should come and change the wire hareness and the brain box from ECU 018 serial to ECU 015 serial(the uncoded type) to save the the stress of code entering in future as the car in question has entered code according to the computer diagnostic guy. What do u advice? Would this have any effect on the car, or any alteration as i don't know the implication? neither do i want to be repeating these expensive mistake anymore?

The ECU 018 was already sent for repairs and would be coming to me soon , but i want the best option, that not withstanding?
Siena,Ikenna,yungboss,Trac and all of u guys pls help

Most of the things changed there were either by error or at purchased, so you wouldn't count that to be problematic..In my own opinion , after you would have put the car in a good order, you can then watch out items that spoils thereafter that are not changed in non erroratic conditions..not the one the mechanic will fix one and spoil another...

Thanks smart choice, but breakdown d grammer for ur guy, which of the oils popular brand here is 10w30?. Alternatively what about 20W50 oil, in d likes of mobil, visco 2000 etc?i have been using them respectively in my c180 and benz 190 unknowingly.. i dnt know any brand here that has 10w30. Pls inform me if u do? thanks

smartchoice: Check your filler flap/manual but I think 10W30 oil should be okay in the tropics


au.hanson]

Congrats Bro!! U made a perfect choice..I love the c230 kompressor and have tested one,its a power machine..Does any body knows the range of recommended oil for this machine?

Hello Kuntash, pls send it as an atachment to my mail too, au.hanson@gmail.com..thanks and remain blessed

kuntash: I have English C-280 owner's manual in soft copy- I am sure it would be quite useful to you, since the basics are the same, aside the engine.

its about 1.5MB size, how do I upload here?

Noted, apology rendered..sorry Trac

yungboss: you muddled Trac's comment, 21st century era Mercedes isn't the same as 20th century, 203 vs 202 and below...

Thanku Ikenna for this thread. I live in PH and my Dad lives in Calabar, He has a pegeot 504GR whom he loves and cherish so much , but recently he was very sad as the engine of the car parked up and needed a new one ..I dnt know where i can source the engine for Him , and preferably a new body too or alternatively, i dont know if i can find an affordable good 406 Peugeot for him at a price range of about 200k..A lion that wud not give him headache?

stafmedia: Thank you all, I have asked for the 1999 c230 kompressor. I hope to enjoy it like you all have. Only I need to find a good Mechanic and Electrician for it here in Abuja + where to buy the recommended engine oil, ATFs, coolants, MB wiper fluid and replacement parts. Any ideas where I can get all this and know their costs. Thanks

Congrats Bro!! U made a perfect choice..I love the c230 kompressor and have tested one,its a power machine..Does any body knows the range of recommended oil for this machine?

Hello guys, i have a benz c180 esprit, maual transmission that wud only start some times when she likes to do so, only for me to discover that the wire harness were completely bad(expired).then my roadside mechanic started having a fill day with it and started learning job with my car, and would have affected the brain box badly, putting the car in a state of comma( the car wouldn't start anymore). An auto electrician with a similar ride advices that he should come and change the wire hareness and the brain box from ECU 018 serial to ECU 015 serial(the uncoded type) to save the the stress of code entering in future as the car in question has entered code according to the computer diagnostic guy. What do u advice? Would this have any effect on the car, or any alteration as i dont know the implication? neither do i want to be repeating these expensive mistake anymore?

The ECU 018 was already sent for repairs and would be coming to me soon , but i want the best option, that not withstanding?
Siena,Ikenna, Trac and all of u guys pls help

I'm not sure you have driven or own a benz b4, i live in the worst street in PH and own a benz 190 for 6 yrs now without any repainting nor change body parts nor camber and it still luks like i bought it today. I later bought a c class fairly used last yr alongside my neighbor who bought Toyota camry 2000 model, direct clean belgium, and changes camber and stabilizers linkages every 3 or 4 monthly intervals,,who even envy that he should have bought a benz..The c class is bomb apart from the wire harness that i need to change..and im a heavy traveler, from PH to Calabar, Calabar to Eket and vice versa with those cars..i have never broken down one day on d road wt these machines,,what are u not telling me

You can't compare benz dependability with Toyota, nor ruggedness, nor performance nor durability and luxury..its far too obvious , pls dnt mislead

Trac: The Mercedes in question is no where as dependable as the Toyota within the original post.

In addition to what I said, Mercedes Benzes (21st century) is no where as dependable as a Toyota. This is not the 20th century. No argument or point-of-view can prove otherwise. If you're in doubt, start with the definition of the word "dependablity" and ask those that own them.





You wouldn't know till you own one. The post-war Mercedes standards are the reputations you have familiarised yourself with and they were designed with an approach of durability with no expense spared. Mercedes-ownership is not the same as Toyota-ownership. You can drive a Toyota for 10 years without having to replace a part (except wear items). This isn't so with the Mercedes. This is the "league" I was referring to. If you aren't the kind to do a lot preventative maintenances and use genuine parts and follow specifications strictly, your ownership experience will not be as enthusiastic as envisioned.

smartchoice: I will advise the 015 I understand its better and with less hassles

Thanks man, i think i'll opt for this, and forget about the factory security thing,i dnt need any more hassle..Please still send the manual to my mail, thanks

smartchoice: tried uploading a C class manual (though for c280 but it shares some features with C180) but file too large

[quote

Please send it to my mail, "au.hanson@gmail.com" . Thanks man. I'm still yet to decide whether to use the 018 brain box(coded one) that it came with, or, whether to adhere to the 015 brain box(the uncoded one)? I dnt know the implication, neither do i want to experience any code entering in future in any case?

send the pictures to me at anihans2003@yahoo.com

Runo11: Ice cold factory fitted AC
sound 4plugs engine
First body
Fabric seats
Alloy wheels
Auto transmission

Mileage 79k
Price: 400k

Location - Igando Lagos
Tell - 08035070308
Pin: 322AAF6B

Pictures too large to upload .Send email for pictures of the car or add me on BBM

smartchoice: welcome to 2013. Did Abuja to Ekiti in W202 C180 with 25 litres! 9l/100km
what a great relief from my W124 230E caburretor modified engine 1L/4KM !!!

Smartchoice , is this ride manual or automatic? Mine is manual.. , but the car wud refuse to start leaving me to the mercy of my benz 190..An auto electrician with a similar ride advices that he should come and change the wire harness and the brain box from 018 serial to 015 serial(the uncoded brain box type) to save the the stress of code entering in future.. what do u advice? Would this have any effect on the car, or any alteration?

smartchoice: how would you know when to change the wire harness?

when u see the engine bay wire insulators cracks and start pilling off in the excess, also under the gear box for auto transmission, just know that they wud start bridging and cause u undesirable consequences . You can use sellotape to taper the ones under the gearbox carefully, while changing that of the engine bay totally with its exact corresponding type.

bankole200: Pls 'm having issue with my car for so long, however the electrician just told that the ECU(Brain box) is the culprit after changing virtually all the parts randomly. The car in question is mazda 626 (1998) model that uses same brain box with ford. He told me it cost N45,000 to get it. Pls auto gurus in the house what's ur take on this cos he said the said brainbox has to be re programmed to conform with it. Pls advise, should I go ahead or sell off the car? I don't know how realiable it will be. Pls I need ur comment
an

Tho i disagree wt ur car having same brainbox(ECU) like that of Ford, but i'm convinced that brain box can give u all sort of hard starting/no starting issues.
This is what you will do; Test your car with the brainbox of ur similar model of a working car, and try to use yours in that car too, then u'll know whether to buy brain box for it or not. I dnt believe in selling off faulty vehicles, but i believe in solving the problem in the best possible way. you cud once again be very happy wt ur car by doing so

yungboss: hanson, you mean 190 2.3 right, is it a 6cyl engine? How is the acceleration? I still love that version of 190

No, its a 4 cyl engine(American Spec with performance Carsound 94006 2.5 in. cat double exhaust pipe) but very tight, i dnt let no one tamper with it, i maintain it well with direct belgium spares to replace any worn out part and make sure everything is in place, even the tiniest rubber, all yr round for 6 yrs now.see the attachmentt below

Lalaska: Stabilizer linkage is the problem with your car. They've probably replaced the same while collecting money for new ones. Try and get a reliable mechanic and buy the org
Buy the original ones

Probably the inferior stabilizers rubber have worn/broken out again, hence the noise .Also, it could even be that u bought bad shocks still for the back

smartchoice: is it slower than the 230E?

Oh no! tho the auto transmission may be slow,its quite a lot faster than the 230E..just that its small engine will show up itself in the output noise when u pull it real hard to achieve that maximum acceleration in overtaking a rival vehicle: i have Benz 190 230E automatic wt very sound engine,its acceleration is very fast even while ac driven,my friends says it's d fastest they've ever seen; the speed is excellent but not without a shout as well..and i like driving fast too. Also, i have the c180 manual transmission,very rugged, its speed amazes me,though not without a shout too when engaged to do a very quick acceleration,compared to c220 and above model. But one thing very good about it, is its MPG(miles per gallon), this i know is dew to its small engine and horsepower, this engine last forever..the handling, smoothness and comfort is perfect, no rival in the Japanese world yet..One more problem, make sure u watch and change the harness wire on time before it expires(the wire expires after 10 yrs) too bad and affect your brain box, else you'll hate this car, cos u wouldn't know what to diagnose anymore if this should happen..the wire harness price have really come down in recent time. Its my best machine so far..I love this two machines