₦airaland Forum

Trac: Hansen,

On the contrary, I did not get you wrong. I perfectly understood you. Truthfully, I was only sharing a philosophy with you. This also is not to put you down or smear your intelligence: your solution to the problem is wrong. The areas you pointed out have nothing to do with what's going on. I know because I am talking from experience. Fuel pump relay and OVP! The car will NOT start. A bad fuel pump relay will initiate pre-starting operations and the engine will not turn. A bad OVP and car will not start at all. Same with the crank sensor. The problem is from the wiring harness incorrectly laced and certain procedures omitted not any that you have listed. If he is not careful, he will damage the ignition system and that will be very costly; in addition to many other units. The throttle body with the cruise-control assembly is what I would be worried about because that is a lot of money and mightn't be worth replacing (depending on the condition of the vehicle). If the harness was correctly fitted, smooth drivability should have been restored but the opposite was the result. The case got worse. On the other hand, if all was done well and the problem mentioned remains, it should take him no more than 25 minutes with a screwdriver; no jacking up of anything and no wrenches would be used. The check engine light shouldn't be cleared for it will clear itself. But this is rarely the case. Frankly, the situation will not change till the wiring loom has been addressed. This is an advance repair and many factors have to be considered in this kind of a repair. I'm not quoting from anyone but from experience working on cars. Neither am I a novice.

Your background is good; however you don't have an automotive background. Systems engineering cannot cross-over to automotive. Believe me, the science is deep (not mainstream at all), advanced math and stringent tolerances (approaches etc). I have a strong mechanical and automotive background (I will skip the details). For this reason, the "googlers" find my responses puzzling. So, I have been trained and also educated. I still make use of an automotive engineer for certain repairs and sometimes a mechanic because it is what they do for a living plus shop management is at their disposal; the job is done in a short period of time than hours that I do not have. Areas of specialty is important; this is where a professional outperforms you.

Diagnosis: how do you diagnose a system that you don't fully understand? From the above (the post before your last reply), a lot was spoken; besides being disjointed. Before working on any car, knowledge of how the car "thinks" and a basic understanding of every single sensor in the engine bay. If you understand MB's fuel loop cycle, your blunt answer would to get another mechanic. Anybody can "fix" a car; it's easy (as long as you can turn a wrench). Diagnosing and working with understanding is another subject matter. The weeds are separated from the grass at this "junction."

There are knowledgeable mechanics in Africa. They are just expensive. Nigerians will not pay extra for what they deem worth. A professional is still a professional. I can tell you first hand that I know a Nigerian automotive engineer and he is very knowledgeable about German cars but he is expensive. He guarantees his services and uses only genuine OEM. There are others like him but everyone wants cheap services.

Let me advice you: the cam positioning sensor on many Mercedes should not be touched at all. If you test and it proves to have failed, advance repair is needed as soon as possible which will require the engine to be disassembled. This isn't prominent to the C Class you drive. Nevertheless, the rule still applies. This is with Mercedes.

Secondly, leave the OVP alone. There are certain tests for that. It is meant for qualified professionals to diagnose that. When you have an OVP problem, chances are you may never know it is the OVP. A car with OVP related problems will not be spending the night with its owner. Diagnosing is not easy in this situation and in my opinion, very clumsy (if service is to be excellent). Do not disturb it as well, it is very fragile and it is air sealed. The ECU's never go bad. As a systems engineer, you are familiar with PLC's and their inherent capabilities (that should say it all). Certain things will give itself up at the expense of the ECU.

On newer Benzes, hard-coding is requires for certain replacements.


Note: This is a scripted text. Your person was not debased. If the text does seem to appear otherwise from cordial, re-read it from a different perspective.

All is well Trace, but i bet you, in Nigeria , ECU go bad. Mine went bad, i tested it with the new one side by side. My neighbours' went bad

I may not have an automotive background, but i make sure i discover my ride than anyone else would.. just discovered my Cclass, now i diagnose it and fix almost everything right,(DIY)that's who i am. I have this confidence in her when i do it myself, because i'm careful with her. I'm not saying i wont patronise mechanic, but no more to my detriment, rather, with strict supervision

Trac: Look for Behr. Wahler is not what you want in there. Undependable and you wouldn't know when it fails except it crosses your attention that something is not quite normal.

I've addressed this previously. The nairalander found it at all cost.

I don't know anything about the 180 engine variants but ensure that the thermostat temp reading is right (that is the degrees). If you are unsure, check your owners manual. If you don't have it, let me know.

Trac, you couldn't have looked for it more than i did, but to no avail. Besides, i couldn't do without a thermostat, read my comment above.However, i'll really appreciate if you can get me the owners manual for the w202 c180, thanks.

yungboss: well, i think 150km/h is a modest speed...i remember the first time i travelled in my bmw 320i, chased a Nissan Armada(v8), passed him at 160km/h...he was prolly doing something close to mine cos i slowly reeled him in and pulled away slowly too.
Meanwhile, have you imagined sitting on 180km/h in your supposedly new camry, and a 1995 bmw 3 series 2.0L outruns you? Sure you knew you were competing! i travelled to benin 2weeks ago in same bmw, gave a chap driving a camry 2008 2.4l a nice run for his money. Killed him off at 200km/h. Virtually only two cars (my bmw and the camry) on the road. Came right behind me aggressively, passed me at 160km/h. I accelerated to 180, keeping him neck and neck with me, for like 3mins...i heard his engine screaming for more as i walked up to 200, leaving him 7+ cars behind me. Waited for him to come close, gave him the chase once again and outdid him at close to 200km/h, only both of us on the road, very early, so open and wide was the road as i remained in front of him for the rest of the journey...when we got to benin city, by the traffic lights, i gave way for him to pass me and he couldn't help but staring hard at me. I gave him the thumbs up in return.
Aim of my silly act: to make him detest his toyota, to make him know that my bimmer was older (1995), hence more experienced.
and that it's simply a Nazi tool, you dont wanna toil with...

Yungboss, you are wetting my appetite..i think i'll definitely add Bm to my fleet in future...My first targeted ride in 2006 was a bimmer 3 series, whatever the number; 318;320;325 an what have you? but was kind of discouraged because of no mechanic, and as a young graduate(just finished my NYSC that year, i went in for Benz and i explore it to the fullest. To be precise, i picked 1989 Benz190 automatic but modify it to my taste, in order words i turn it to a sport car. On the newly finished road by Berger from Atim Ekpo to Calabar, i was intimidated by 2000 Camry, He came like a hegoat, horn like no 2moro, asking me out of the way as if i was driving a piece of crab, i let him go but with confidence i pullout and gave him a fierce-some knockout all the way to calabar, when i imagine my wider tyres, my modified big nuzzle and muffler, and super suspension system, whith 170kmph, of course the road with all the bends wouldnt permit anything more than that, but i made sure he never came infront of me any more. Though, i wouldn't have imagine him with my Cclass if i had it then..cos that one moves like a bulldog , gripping the road like hurricane waves

Trac: Wow!

A rule of thumb: you don't go around eliminating symptoms. That is bad ethics; very bad. A mechanic, technician or engineer worth his salt will first of all find out what caused the problem and other factors associated thereof. It is even worse if it's a fuse. This makes Mercedes cars very difficult to work on because you need at least a fair overall understanding of the gas/diesel engines to render diagnoses. To affirm what I have stated frankly, your stated troubleshooting is unrelated to the issues mentioned. It would have been better if he rounded a few people from the streets and gave them the money that he would spend for such service. It will not help the situation because none of the situation. There are certain aspects where new parts cannot be placed upon old surrounding units or alongside. You need an MB handtool for some models to replace certain parts. The ECU should never be replaced unless diagnoses prove it is dead. Crankshaft positioning sensors should never be fiddled with for these models. The same as camshafts positioning sensors. We all learn. There are certain things you will know about your car due to ownership. Above all, you still need a good mechanic because they are professionals.

His problem is from the wiring harness. The job was a bad one. To fix the issue upon a bad "foundational layout" is just a waste of time and sure enough; will get you nowhere in the long-run but incur more expenses. This is why I stated no opinion in resolving the symptoms. When that is done, any problem left can be safely eliminated.

There you are, you got me wrong. I didn't go about eliminating symptoms, but on the contrary, i gave an exhaustive scientific systematic approach to that problem-and i bet you, if he should follow my advice in that order there is no how that problem would elude him. Please don't get me wrong,it's not as if i'm contesting with you nor anybody but on the contrary, should in case i become too busy to come to nairaland to follow up , then i would have given all that it takes to tackle this issue. I have flare for Benz because of an edge in her technological advancement over others, that's why you see me here.

If you read my lines above , we know that the main issue is the wire, that's why i nail it first "1". His problem may be completely solved at this point but if not then i nail the second level of approach, if some strands may spill over for attention and so on .He may not even get to the 3rd to 5th stages where his problem is solved, but there's nothing wrong in exhausting all the options for him should in-case....
He may not have to do it himself but may employ someone and direct such to do it for him with proper monitoring. Though, these are very simple things he can handle,absolutely, there is no big deal in it. Don't let no one scare you, no one was born with it. All you need is the right tools.

I may not say anything again on this, by virtue of my experiences as a systems engineer by practice, and a software engineer by profession, i have these approach to problem solving that never failed me before no matter what the issue may be, it has to be exhaustively eliminated systematically to its logical conclusion, be it in the electronic world nor auto world nor the circular world. We in third world countries are faced with so much challenges(multiple problems) from second hand products, frustrating issues due to poor maintenance culture with products passed unto us from one hand to another with heavy tampering, that it becomes imperative that approach to problems solving be exhaustively applied, else we face the music after just passing a stage only to realised that the symptoms still persist.

I am not against the so called good mechanic or auto technician in this context,you and i knows that their primary concern is what goes into their pocket, i left my car in their hands(very good ones indeed with proven track record) when i was very busy and they grounded it for 2 months, and made a fill day out of it,only for him to tell me at the end of the day that my machine really embarrassed him, not until i towed the vehicle home and approach it systematically was the problem solved exhaustively.. Same with my doctor friend whose beautiful machine was almost left to decay for 4 months in a mechanic garage with huge spending, they did all kinds of scanning; changing of auto transmission;engine, sensors and so on but to no avail, until he gave up and bought less desirable car to move about with, did i go with him and towed home the vehicle and gave it an exhaustive systematic approach and solved all those insurmountable problems and found out that the major culprit here was Crank position sensor, they kept buying the bad ones for the car. Now His machine is up and doing again.

I don't entrust people with my problems because of bad experiences , but i handle them myself and have always got them solved completely, needless to mention.

guttentag: Plz can somebody help me out, my machanic told me that wires in my car has expire and he worked on it, he later said that the brainbox is faulty, it was replace now the car is jerking while on motion, the fire is sizing and the car will off.
Pls guys I will really appreciate your assistance

Now 4 things can cause the kind of problem you have envisaged:

1. ECU related(bad ECU, poor/expired wires and or faulty control relay )
2. Faulty or wrongly positioned C.P.S ( crank position sensor)
3. Fuel pump relay and ovp at the trunk of your car , where you have the 2 fuses
4. O2, oxygen sensor
5. Camshaft sensor if fitted in your own

1. Dont trust any repair wiring,they cannot always be thorough, besides , the wire may be badly damaged beyond repair. Simply buy another one, you may get the Asian type(a fairly used type is less than 20k) , these ones does not expired, because they dont follow the biodegradability laws of Germany etc that causes these wire to expire overtime.Simply follow the orientation of the one there, unclip them all. Most importantly , make sure you bought the right wire for your vehicle, and clip this one to replace the old one. Be mindful of the orientation for the auto transmission , If your car is the manual type simply disconnect the auto transmission wire and clips from your newly bought wire.

Since you have already replaced the brain box ,then you need to test your control relay with a normal vehicle to exonorate '1' above , if that works well on the vehicle then you can move down to "2" But before then , simply open you fuse box area and unscrew the fuse box with a star head acrew driver to where you have the control relay and other components. this is quite simple. Dont be afraid

2. You can trace the your crank shaft position sensor CPS, this is located behind your engine on the left hand side depending om your model. First of all make sure you disconnect your battery head, and the wire that leads to the ECU before embarking on this. Your CPS is located at the top of your starter motor, loose it and try to position it well , place it not too close nor too far to the trigger wheel, connect back your ECU(brain box) and battery and start your car again while observing any of these symptoms. If this did not work out , then replace the oxygen sensor with a new one. If things did not still work out , you can now suspect the O2 sensors. Now move to "3"

3. Test these items , your fuel pump relay and ovp in another vehicle to ascertain their good working condition, else go to your spare part dealer to buy reaplacement , Infact you even need spares of these items in your car, they dont cost at the TOKs market, but be sure you buy good ones. these little things can cause problems you never anticipate. If your problem persist, ten move to step "4"

4. Your O2 sensor would not even allow you to drive the car, if it does, it will produce very poor economy too.

your oxygen sensors are located in your exhaust system. Your exhaust system starts at the exhaust manifold on the side of the engine and ends at the tail pipe at your back bumper.

Make sure you remove your -ve battery terminal before you start this. If you are using Benz C180 like mine or C280,as you didn't mention your car type/model, your vehicle oxygen sensors are 4 of them there are two on each side of your exhaust, actually screwed into the exhaust. They are like the nose of your engine to read how rich/clean the car is running. They look are like spark plugs with wires attached to them, the wires are usually colored white black and grey with plug connections on the end. Go to your dealer store and buy the oxygen sensor socket and racket and unscrew this to replace with that one. Good luck

Jack up the right side of the car and secure on jack stands. Make sure you'll have enough room to slide well under the car, at least to where the drive shaft is over your chest.

Next remove the two bolts that hold the exhaust to the transmission and set them aside.

Now move to the rear of the car and remove the two rubber hangers from the muffler. Once you have these two hangers off you should support the muffler with the jack and move back to the center of the car to remove the middle rubber hanger.

Once the exhaust is free slowly lower it down until you have access to the two sensors. The front one required you to drop the system nearly all the way to the ground.

Here is where the C shaped box end wrench comes in handy. I don't know what those engineers were thinking but its impossible to get a normal wrench or socket on these sensors without dropping the pipes out of the car! make sure you bought the right replacement parts? Good, now cut the wires within an inch or two of where they come out of the sensor on the OLD parts obviously.

Next slip the obstruction wrench over the sensor and give it a smack with the heel of your hand or a hammer to jar the sensor loose. Once you've broken it loose it should turn out by hand. Repeat this on the other sensor, connect the wires and reinstall the exhaust hangers and you're done!


5. Now this is located at the front of your engine near the fan component to the right close to the thermostat .The black box that has the Mercedes Benz logo houses this component. Good luck

N/B always remove your negative battery head before you embark on any replacement that has to do with electrical or electronic components. Kindly let us know if this was useful to you.

tellwsdom: Don't underestimate the power of A.C broda...Im only recommending it to that man who wakes up early to work with all his bones eaten up by hot environs....If he collapse ontop em backseat sef, i no go blame am

Can AC work in a country of partial power supply/ blackout at night? Then be ready to burn off your money in the name of powering noisy gen TDB, and offending your neighbours for your inconvenience luxury

Chuky & obi2012, you gain nothing by bombarding each other like this..Just cool off like gentle men. If you made mistake or err , it's no big deal to render an apology( i rendered apology immediately i misunderstood Trac, when Yungboss called my attention to it, and i really meant it. courtesy demands that;its a show of civility..no one is perfect.. It doesn't make you less a man but rather a complete rational, articulate person.

so guys, let's move this wonderful thread forward in one accord

talktimi: I've made up my mind on the 2001 M 3 coupe, does anyone know if it there's an auto tranny option ? And what's the estimated price in Nigeria/Cotonou ?

Just tell me this baby aint fine

When you heard that people feared the speed of BM, its the M3 they were talking about, its could be likened to AMG in benz, and they are fuel guzzler too as they are performers. Any car enthusiast must have heard about the incredible performance of an M3 at one time in his life

Siena: A faulty crank sensor would certainly cause difficulty in starting, and stalling in service. Faulty O2 sensors will cause poor fuel economy, but not stalling. If they're faulty, the ECU doesn't get any signals, and the fuel system simply reverts from closed-loop emission control to open-loop.

Items that could cause stalling in service are:

01) Faulty crankshaft sensor.
02) Faulty camshaft sensor (if fitted).
03) Faulty coolant temperature sensor.
04) Faulty fuel pump relay.
05) ECU power interruption (wiring, control relay fault).

You had a crank sensor replaced - was it a new one? If yes, was it a genuine item, or a patent part? Crank sensors also need correct orientation to function properly. If it's too far, or too close to the trigger wheel,the engine will have running issues.

I think a scan is in order - and please don't buy any more parts, untill you at least have some codes to go by. Random replacement of parts can chew through your finances in a very short time. If you pull any fault codes, don't have them erased, and post the results here.

I wish you all the best.

Thanks Sienna, you have just answered my wondered question indirectly. My car stalls when the ac is on, and without ac on at hold ups, i have tune up the engine to counter this but it still stalls sometimes. From the kind of hissing sound i hear near my dashboard,atimes(tho the sound is gradually diminishing these days) i suspected the fusebox relay, i suspect this to be the control relay fault? My car is benz c180 w202 model

talktimi: then we share the same fear, I'm in ph and I'll never allow 'ikoku" boys near my ride again after they nearly tumbled my honda under 5 minutes. I've made up my mind on a beema just need a good mech for major issues since I can handle regular maintenance myself and I follow vehicle manuals properly

I understand benz very well and follow up any issue with any mechanic,and i spend less in benz maintenance contrary to people opinion, those i come across(One well respected man swore never to buy benz but any other car, and i was just wondering at his speech, i mean it amazes wht he is missing out with all his money). I would love to own the BMW(precisely 3series) alongside with Benz if only i can afford to understand it maintenance, and clear the err about it difficulty in maintenance and spending.

talktimi: I've made up my mind on the 2001 M 3 coupe, does anyone know if it there's an auto tranny option ? And what's the estimated price in Nigeria/Cotonou ?

Just tell me this baby aint fine

BMW is a marvelled sport machine to behold, i entered a friend's 318 yesterday and suddenly fell in love with its sportier nature after cruising around town with him in my sport benz c180, my only fear is the rate at which this machine is parked for ages to decay in several compounds in the south south, these scares me often as if its a machine that may be too difficult to maintain.

Denn: what year model is the accent?
how long has it been used?
do you usually drive beyond 120km/hr on other cars?

the new models perform just like every other asian cars (if not more...though am sure japs would like to shred me on this)

i had a test drive in a new optima in their office along apapa oshodi exp way last month and was thrilled....

If not mistaken, the accent should be 2012 model year.
Usually i drive beyond 120km/hr, precisely (140-170)km/hr with my 89 benz 190, and 180km/hr with my heavy c class Benz

Denn: i just got a brand new Kia Rio 2013 model....

went to ilorin recently. along that sweet strip from ogbomosho to Ilorin (best road section i have witnessed in nigeria. flat, straight and smooth) i maxed out the korean kiddo and surprisingly, the needle didnt pass 160km/h (*embarrased). i gave the damn thing all the gas possible but it wont go beyond the 160 mark. it was then i realised its possible there is a speed limiter on the car.

for a 1.4l engine, i think 160km/h aint bad.

i have done 200km/hr on that road section twice. first in a 2000 model acura legend and second in my untiring 2000 model BMW 323 Ci. i dont fancy speeds above this

Bro, i wonder how people make more than 160 on these cars, wouldn't it fly into thin air?..I made 120km/hr with a Hyundai Accent and it felt like a feather, my blood ran cold, i had to quickly return the car back to the owner

Trac: Hanson,

What I told you is not from me but Mercedes' statement of operational procedure on how you gauge the oil level. Other cars will follow what you stated. After two minutes of engine circulation is when readings should be taken from a cold engine. This is the only accurate measure to gauge oil levels on a flat surface.

Oh men! then we have been doing it the wrong way all these while..this is time to change, thanks

Tested on my c class yesternight and it worked perfectly, after having bought another mobil 1 quartz during the day, it gulp about 400ml extra. Thanks dude, the guru!!

Trac: Edit: I partially re-wrote this post.

In all the cheating, I believe it is still better than having to replace your oil every two months or 2,000 miles. Personally speaking, you do not have much to worry about.

I took some time to find out the change of formulation and the reason to it; this along with the integrity in comparison to the former. On their account of testimony, the reason for change was for the benefit of pollution control equipments in your vehicle. The old formulation risked damaging emission components under certain conditions. Nothing changed in the formulae except for the culprit that was reduced to safe level. Mobil 1 has poly-alphaolefine and that's also justify spending such money on it and the quality.

According to Mobil with respect to the product, the oil will go 15,000. However, if you have an engine that has sludge in it or heavy deposits/contaminants, you are to replace 3,000 miles or shorter.


Long distance drives are also beneficial to oil; less stress on it. Stop-and-go puts more stress on your engine than highway driving.

There is a note of caution: every few months, you have to inspect the oil through the dipstick. Ensure that the level is ok. On a Mercedes, you check the oil by running the engine for two minutes and then stopping the ignition; then you take your reading shortly afterwards. Contrary to how other vehicles are read. Top it if it's a little low. This means that you should have a quart extra. You can always get that later. -- and that's after many months.

Trac, i really appreciate these, thanks a lot.

However, concerning checking the oil in Mercedes, precisely in my Benz 190 if you start and stop before checking the oil the gauge level will drop drastically and u will end up having an overgauged oil if you must follow that, except if it is transmission fluid you are gauging.I hope you didn't mean transmission fluid? Though i have not tested this yet with my c class, hoping to do that tomorrow morning, thank you very much

Trac: You are welcome.

An antiwear element was removed or reduced due to environmental regulations (to be more environmental-friendly). Mobil One 0w-40 was in two configurations; Fully Synthethic and SuperSyn. I think the SuperSyn superceded the Fully Synthetic but both were sold in the stores at the time. Supersyn guaranteed 15,000 miles and it had reference to AMG's. Now, there isn't any super, the fully-version only says "exceeds MB's Sheet 229.3/5" and no 15,000 mile guarantee or AMG reference. There is no doubt that Mobil compensated for it but I'm no chemist. Other brands may have been affected; not just Mobil 1 to meet stringent environmental-friendly standards.

The durability of the oil is not affected. Mobil isn't guaranteeing extended intervals as they did before. I don't have the technical documentation either for the changes. I take reciprocating interactions very serious. Lubricants have always been of great interests and caution to me. I use oil that has greater poly-alphaolefine than M1. It's the base element and it is also very expensive. I use amsoil. You won't find that where you are because it isn't sold in stores but through mere people but expensive. It's a family-owned company. You have to find an authorised retailer and purchase in large amounts. I have a retailer in the next city and I buy it from his home and I get as much information as I can from him. I get to see independent tests and they are notorised, thus official.

Will I recommend M1 to anyone? If you are driving a Mercedes, that's what I'll tell them to get or the other approved MB oils. If it meets or exceeds 229.5, then they should get it. It's still standards all MB model lineup (as of today).

M1's are good; there are alternatives. On the list of MB approved alternatives, some outperformed M1's.

Well! thanks Trac, i bought mobil 1 today from one of the biggest Mobil filling station in PH(to avoid fake product), but the price was very ridiculous, N9,000.00 for a 4 gallon, and N2,600.00 for a 1 litre gallon. I knew they are cheating but then i couldn't change anything than to just buy it .The only thing is that i felt fulfilled that i bought it, after carving out time from my very busy schedule, as i have to travel miles and under the worst hold up to obtain it losing a lot of gas in the process.

My concern now is , how would i know when to change this oil , as in when it'll be due for the next oil change with all these modifications by mobil and the no more guarantee on the extended period as i cant readily find another suitable alternative over here to trade off?

Tnoni: I GOT AN EOD 2004 NOVEMBER, I ACTUALLY BOUGHT IT WITH THE VIBRATION AND THE SELLER TOLD ME IT IS ONLY THE ENGINE SIT, THAT I SHOULD CHANGE IT, IMMEDIATELY I TOOK THE CAR HOME THE NEXT DAY I PAID A MECHANIC TO GET IT FIXED ONLY FOR THE VIBRATION TO CONTINUE. NOW THE MECHANIC IS SAYING IT HAS TO BE THE OTHER TWO ENGINE SITS, THAT HE DID NOT CHANGE, I DONT KNO WAT TO DO, AND THE CHECK ENGINE LIGHT HAS BEEN ON FOR MORE THAN 3 WEEKS NOW.
HOW DO I CLEAR THE CHECK ENGINE LIGHT AND IF I CHANGE THE OTHER ENGINE SITS WILL THE VIBRATION STOP? PLUS WHICH ONE IS BETTER FAIRLY USED ENGINE SITS OR BRAND NEW ONES.

Mostly, this kind of thing is caused by steering kits. Ask your mechanic to go down your car and check those steering kits as he sakes them to confirm

Trac: You are driving a car not an 18-wheeler or a super-duty pick-up truck. 

20w-50 is not an approved oil for any MB gas engine mounted on a sedan or 4x4. The AMG's never use the 20w-50 weight and they are high power and torque output.


You have to consider the weight of the oil at 100degC and not as you pour the fluid from the bottle.  At 100degC, the viscosity is at 50.  That is too heavy and thick for your oil pump, too thick for the upper profiles of your crankcase and will not flow to the hard-to-reach areas (tight restrictions) including pores within the crankcase.  Besides that, you will have drag in your crankcase which will lead to parasitic loss.  You also waste fuel too and will ride as smooth.  You will also damage the rear main seals that mate the engine to the transmission.  For the 20w, you are going to have difficulty in cold start.

Your MB engine formula requires specification 229.3.  You can upgrade to specification 229.5 and exploit the extended oil interval change.  I replace my oils on all my cars after 15 months and for years with Mobil 1 SuperSyn 0w-30 and 0w-40. I don't use Mobil 1 anymore for personal reasons but it's what MB recommends.  Since it is your daily driver, you can reduce the interval life since it is driven everyday and your environmental conditions differ.  The grade you should use should be 0w-40, 5w-40 and in convenient cases, 10w-40.  I am not sure about the 30 viscosity but it should state it on your dipstick.  Look for Mobil 1 SuperSyn or Mobil 1 AdvanceSyn and at the back, it will state the 229.5 specification requirement.  You shouldn't use anything less than a 229.3 spec oil.  You may not find a 229.3 spec for it has been superceded by 229.5.  One note to take into consideration is 229.3 or 229.5 and not 229.31 or 229.51.  The latter (Bleep.x1) is for diesels).

To counter some arguments -- some people believe as a car ages, thicker oil is required.  That is totally false.  If you have leaks, mechanical repair is required.  The first note to consider is that no one makes engines like MB.  On the M111 engine and all Mercedes engines set up on the HFM injection system, ignition control and fuel injection has been unified to one module, so the coil are mounted directly on the plugs eliminating a distributor.  The innovation is smart and has adaptive technology within its configuration and its adaptive nature allows it to compensate for engine wear throughout the course of its engine life keeping it running like new throughout its life. 

Above all, the bottle must explicitly state 229.3 or 229.5 specification.  Anything short of this will not meet MB's specification for high temperature high shear strength.  Also, the xw-30 weight is not recommended.

Well spoken Trac, thanks for this educative info, its so informative .

However , what is that vital component that was taken away from mobil 1 that made you turn away from it? Does that affect the durability of the oil, or tear and wear in the engine? Based on this factor, can you still recommend Mobil 1 to someone?

Also, what brand oil do you now use for your MB(Mercedes Benz)? Can it be obtainable here, and how long does it last before next oil change , does it protect like mobil1?

yungboss: nice topic, hope you wouldn't mind my narration:
chasing a 2002 toyota avalon and a nissan maxima 2.5 whose egotistic drivers earlier on, thought blaring their horns behind me in an irritating manner on a bad ph/warri road would make me a pushover in my very sound '95 bmw 320i the avalon took me out from almost zero... on hitting a good stretch of the road. chased him ...even though he kept widening the gap up until 150km/h after which his family sedan got tired...he tried all he could with his hazard starting to blink at 160... (at this point the maxima had let off a bit) i pushed easily closing up to hit 190km/h taking him outta the way same time giving him my hazard as a polite way to pay back....trying not to be more than 5cars behind,he kept tryin to close in but couldn't do nil as he let off and with the road still silky smooth with a good view ahead, i cruised for a while to make sure this family car gets small in my rear view mirror before i restored some civility to the road...

Yungboss, just imagining this speed, 190km/h, how is the handling..and how does it feel like..it takes a lot of mind to do this speed? Though i'm not dreaming of trying it.

Ikenna351: About this, the noise could be coming from camshaft, pulley, roller, etc. A failing bearing could make that noise- referring the engine rollers or pulleys. Likewise, a worn camshaft would do that as well.

If it was the camshaft that made that noise, it means that shaft was already worn before you switched to 15W 50. But since 20W 50 is thicker than 15W 50, it was preventing the shaft from rapid wearing, because of its thick viscosity. But we don't know yet what made that noise.

But how was the engine taken care of before the oil grade switch? Was the engine running cold more than it should? Was the thermostat removed? Were you using only water in the engine cooling system? Was the fan connected to spin constantly once the engine starts running? Do you rev your engine immediately once the car starts every morning? No matter the oil grade you use or even if you change your engine oil every week, once engine is getting such abuse enumerated above, you will experience camshaft worn or failure, including other parts of the engine that need constant lubrication as soon as the engine cranks or starts running. Engines hate to run cold. It increases friction and dies faster. Nigerians take engine cooling systems for granted, which ends up putting smiles on our brothers faces that sell used or tokunbo engines. Its not their fault, anyway.

Anyway, the noise could be anything. It may not even be from inside the engine. Since I wasn't there, I wouldn't know.

Ikenna.

It could even be the carpex in the engine chamber

Ikenna351: This is not the right thread to pose these questions. We dont discuss anyother brand other than Peugeot here. Thanks.

Ikenna.

Ok Ikenna, noted! But at least you can give the duration of the oil(total quartz 9000 0w40 and 5w40 in peugeot 406 before next oil change take place, thanku for your immediate response

Trac: Unfortunately, I do not get status notification via e-mail when any of the threads I am following gets responded to. I use to get after a day was through but I don't get anymore. I tried to readjust settings but nothing changed. Maybe it's the server.

If the Asian designated specification, then you are good to go. In the mid-90's, Germany went bio-degradable; it was imposed by regulations. Such regulations were not in Asia or other markets. I'm not surprised that the former ECU would have been bricked (if so many changes were done). Usually, a relay gives itself up at the expense of the ECU.

Ironically, it's almost one year now and the very reason that cause me to remain on NL was cooling on an MB. Check my earliest post. I went into details concerning MB's cooling. I'd rather not re-do that but it's on this thread and I was comprehensive about it. In addition to that, I have discussed cooling on some other thread. I'm quite constrained and I can't go into details but I did explain the concept.

Furthermore, I will answer the other aspects of your question. You will need coolant. The green coolant is not what you need. Avoid it! Fluids are mechanically engineered; far from what the layman will understand but it's very true. The green coolant does nothing from my experience. Above all, it will damage the water-pump eventually.

The average running temperature should be 87degF and it isn't unusual to get up to 115degF. This mode of operation should not be without coolant installed. Running your vehicle at the aforementioned heat ranges stated will warp your heads. Some models have very small clearances that machining wouldn't be possible.

If you cannot find a hybrid-organic coolant, whatever you get would be okay (minus the greeny), provided the replacement interval is shorter. This, I state is what I would do if I was in your shoes. This way, the fluid maintains a near-new state of health. I hope you got my point of view.

Sometimes, a jumpy guage needle is caused by sulphur build-up in the gas tank. You'll need a bottle of techron to take care of that. If that doesn't resolve it, it is a faulty fuel-pressure-sending-unit. A full tank and incorrect guage reading as stated, I am rest-assured that you have a faulty fuel-pressure-sending-unit. It wouldn't be a bad idea to get a oil-pressure-sending-unit as well and replace them. The parts are not expensive. These are typical MB maintenance routines that are done 15 or more years from the date of production.

All the best:

The email notification is a major issue now in nairaland, it could be the traffic is more than the capacity of the server
Thanks for the info on the German law on bio-degradable.Next time b4 any such law they shld consult us in naija...

For your info on Mercedes Benz cooling,i would love to read it, hope to find it else u would have to send me the link to save me the trouble, even though i have already resolved that issue. see " https://www.nairaland.com/1087033/reliability-c180/1#14256405 "

For the fuel gauage wahala, i'll find techron first of all, if it dosent worked out , then i'll have to change the oil-pressure-sending-unit.But pls before then, where is this unit situated in the car?

Finally, beacuse of the outrageous price of mobil 1(0w40), and in a 4 litre gallon for about N8,500, can total quartz 9000(0w40) or (5w40),in a 5 litre gallon that cost about N8,000.00 be used to replaced mobil 1, and for the same duration of like 12-15 months in my benz c180 and benz 190?

Expecting your reply, thanks

[quote author=al-ahamad]If 180 is obtainable or a normal base then I guess the speedometer is decieving you cos that's an awful load of speed....try 180 with a benz, volks, infiniti, lexus, e.t.c nd u'll see your self riding next to a Dana plane on air.....

I'm sure u knw what happens 4 mile to touch down..haha[/quote]I test drive a friends Hyundai accent , just to have a feel of the ride, it felt like a leaf, like i was pulling a baby's cart at unreasonable speed, out of curiousity i peep at the speedometer and was shocked at how it read 125 knph just like that in the city way, with no effort. I kept asking myself if their reading is the true standard reading or if they do have another standard that they follow. i have been trying to imagine that speed with that of my benz, it didnt really seem fast to me(it was like 60 kmph of my benz),but just unsafe with the Hyundai accent handling, it got me too scared.

abdulkadir: its coming rather late but it myt be usefuls some day.
https://www.nairaland.com/1003701/peugeot-thread-peugeot-community/9#13238333

Abdulkadir, i really appreciate your effort, tho i really slept over that issue and couldn't wait a sec to do a very extensive research online and was able to discover all that the guru, Ikenna has stated there and the oil stuff too, thanks.

However, when i opened the cooling system , to my amazement, there was no thermostat, but on a further test, when i started the car i discovered that the water pump was still ok as it pissed immensely throuh the little hoes pipe that leads to the thermostat compartment. The mechanic boys would have removed it, little wonder why i was having all those issues. I actully went and bought a new thermostat, whaler 87 degrees celcius and installed before proceeding for thorough engine and radiator steam-wash. Infact i brought down the radiator for that purpose before mounting it back , and since then its been fun all the way no matter the idling nor hold up with the single and only fan(as the rest stopped working soon after the steam wash, one week many trouble)

Ikenna351: I went in search of coolant at a nearby TOTAL filing station and was still told "out of stock".

Anyway, i found something else very interesting. I found in TOTAL station all the TOTAL synthetic based and fully sythetic/fuel economy oil recommended by Peugeot for the EW10, EW12, XU10, HDI & ES9J4S engines. Such as Quartz 9000 0W/40; Quartz 9000 5W/30; Quartz 9000 5W/40; Quartz 7000 15W/50.

Quartz 7000 15W/50, which synthetic based, cost N4,700. While, Quartz 9000 5W/40, a fully synthetic oil, cost 8k (though, 5 litres). I didn't price the rest. But they were there.

The lower the number before "W" (Winter), the easier the engine turns over when starting in cold climates. Then, how cold is our climate?


Studies that i carried out on oil grades showed that 5W-30 oil grade are for cooler climates, while 15W-50 are for hot climates. Its left for you to decide if our climate are cool or cold enough to decide whether to go full synthetic or synthetic based oil. I do know that 0W-40 & 5W-40 are full synthetic, while 15W-50 is synthetic based (but do know that we have 15W-50 that is mineral oil, which will be indicated on the container).

Full synthetic oil like the 5W-40 is a fuel economy oil. You will get the best fuel economy using that oil. Not only that, you gain more engine performance and power, and lubricates faster or quicker during cold start, which prevents friction and wear at cold start, unlike the mineral oil. But if you ask me, i would say the fully synthetic oil are best for engines that havent done miles more than 100k. Am not sure and i cant prove it. But they are very thin oil and would burn faster in an aged engine, unlike the synthetic based and mineral oil. The lower the number before the "W", the thinner the oil.

My point is, almost all the TOTAL oil grades recommended by Peugeot for their listed above engines, are abundantly available in the TOTAL filing stations, scattered all over the country. The grade to use, is your decision to make.

Ikenna.

Pls does anyone in the house knows how long this oil,(quartz 90000 0W/40 and "Quartz 9000 5W/40, a fully synthetic oil, cost 8k (though, 5 litres)" ,can be used in a vehicle before changing it? can it last 12- 15 month like mobil 1, because mobil 1, 4 litre oil price is outrageous in Nigeria.Can it also be used in a benz 190 and c class product? your answer is highly appreciated

[quote author=Exc@libur]Does anyone here drive a 406 coupe? Every time that car drives past I almost get an 0rg@$m. I'm seriously considering buying it in Jan 2013. Any advice?[/quote]Same thing here, each time it drives past i cant afford but stare at it with the desire to own one, it has a perfect design for a coupe over any other car(BMW nor Toyota, and what have you, its as fine as benz cls coupe if not more than). I must confess; its the sportiest little coupe so cute a ride to behold, though i don't really know much about it

Both are lovely ride, sportier performance machines, but benz c class combines it all , luxury, performance, handling and personalty unlike BM 3 series , which is just about performance with very little of the rest of the factors if not embarrassing electronics/electricals

BMW is just about speed, speed, speed, while benz is about comfort. I drove a friends BMW and all i could think was speed, built for speed, while driving Benz i would always feel that comforting performances and satisfaction

Hello guys i install a new thermostat today with 87 degrees reading(original whaler, couldn't find Behr), also steam washed my engine and radiator and got myself some coolant , now i no more experience the overheating nor any further rise in temp above 87 degrees even while idle in the mid day sun, hold ups etc. contrary to my previous experiences.

I was marveled at my machine performance today during testing to confirm all these stuffs..it was just fun all through, as the engine roars along like a lion dusting all the jap guys.. It was a great deal of trouble fixing all these. I'm happy that all my trouble is not in vain.. This machine worth all that trouble you know, who says C180 isn't impressive in performance when all factors are in order.

Stallion77: I recently experience over heating with my Honda babyboy 1999 and along the line, i was told my gasket was burnt as the water from the radiator was oozing out wen the engine was running... i had that fixed only to discover that the temperature went up again and water was leaking from a pipe,the mechanics said its the AC pipe and i dont use the AC. I had that fixed and just a little drive of less than 2km,the car temperature goes nearly above the middle. I was then told that my single cell radiator has expired and does not work as efficiently as it should and that i need to change it to a double cell radiator and things will normalize...here lies my question, is that really the problem?

Your candid responses would be highly appreciated.
Thanks!

Stallion, Learn from my experience and try same , it might work for you:

"For about 5 days i have been experiencing overheating and temperature range of over hundred and something degrees.. To cut the long story short, out of curiosity,i went for flushing and bleeding of my radiator, while i open the compartment i noticed the missing thermostat,the overheating contd. I got myself another one that read 87 degrees, then i proceeded for a steam wash and from that moment henceforth once my temp got to that 87 degrees it doesn't go too much further than that, but rather comes down despite the kind of holdup i found myself, and despite the length of idle steaming and the actual weather condition contrary to my previous experience.this confirms that the thermostat is necessary contrary to our local mechanics and peeps point of views. Just get the right temperature reading thermostat for your region,thoroughly steam wash your engine and radiator, and that will serve you all the headache . This is a practical experience, i'm now happy with my benz c180."

Hello guys, these thermostat message is real.. i had a personal experience with it and would like to relay it to you all . The thermostat of my car was somehow removed without my knowledge while i parked the car in the mechanic workshop.

For about 5 days i have been experiencing overheating and temperature range of over hundred and something degrees.. To cut the long story short, out of curiosity,i went for flushing and bleeding of my radiator, while i open the compactment i noticed the missing thermostat,the overheating contd. I got myself another one that read 87 degrees, then i proceeded for a steam wash and from that moment henceforth once my temp got to that 87 degrees it doesn't go too much further than that, but rather comes down despite the kind of holdup i found myself, and despite the length of idle steaming and the actual weather condition.this confirms that the thermostat is necessary contrary to our local mechanics and peeps point of views. Just get the right temperature reading thermostat for your region and that will serve you all the headache . This is a practical experience, i'm now happy with my benz c180.

yungboss: you customized the 190 in 1998, or it's a '98 190, cos 190s were discontinued in production lonf before 1998....
Be careful with the way you mess with those accords, know the type of car you use, else you'l be left behind for the V6 is very fast on the straight line...even the four cylinders, considering the VTEC engines in those cars...

oh my dear!Pardon me, 1989 benz i mean to say..let me modify that. Thanks for spotting it.

Sure they are very fast, but if u use automatic like mine with a v4, with the little trick of downshifting the auto transmission you could perform wonders.Sometimes it's the driver and some tricks that really matters ,not really the machine per say(As long as you have a stable machine with good handling, you can perform wonders with it, the rest of it is manipulation, afterall no one would have the mind to exhaust the entire speedometer

Billyonaire: Well, I do have a RRS but I didnt know X5 is better clone, I dont just like the look of X5. Its my personal opinion anyway.

Same with me here, i love BMW engine, i marvel at them, but i do not love their ride most especially their suv's , i prefer the range rover sport to the x5. In my own opinion, the x6 is a very cool ride but do not have the personality of the Range Rover sport, its just a cross over like honda cross tour, but better off in built , handling, and power