₦airaland Forum

Did you know that as far back as 2012, a Ford Fusion had 70 on-board computers?

And that that data on the Ford Fusion vehicle computer network [controller area network (CAN)] flowed at the rate of 25 gigabytes per hour!

Little wonder then that if you drive a modern car, you want a repair man that understands and appreciates computers and respects (read that to mean does not abuse) electrical/electronic systems!!

You can read more here: https://www.usatoday.com/story/driveon/2012/12/22/ford-fusion-computers/1786297/

kellystech:
ph

Not in PH, but once we officially launch and we have enough interest from PH, we will open a branch there.

So stay tuned

kellystech:
If anyone in ph is ready to teach me pls indicate let talk about it and how to go abt registration

Location?

Lexmeizta:
@AutoElectNG

Kindly help out. P0725 and P0448 DTCs on a 2008 Nissan Sentra Se-R.

Any advice or referral to a reputable auto electrician would be helpful.

thanks

I have already told you the solution for the first code, I have been too busy to work on the second code!

I would recommend GAZZUZZ.

He hates Nissans though, so I don't know if he would love to deal.

Your issue is rather minor especially the first code, the second code might be more involved.

The issue is to repair modern cars right:

1. You want someone who has a post-secondary education, he is a graduate.

2. You want someone familiar with computers, he used to work with computers before, so he is.

3. You want someone who knows his way around, electronics, he does.

4. And you want someone who knows old-school troubleshooting, he does.

5. You want demonstrable expertise, he has got that too.

So whatever he tells you, should be well-considered professional advice that you can rely on.

Have a nice day!

rushman003:
Oga mikky can you help ship cycling shoe then ?

You contacted me via email, I have responded! Twice!!

GuageLTD:
bro got d email notification bt didnt see d mail.
if U dnt mind, pls kindly assist me wit ur contact number. preferably whatsapp number so I cld chat U up.

carelectronics at nichekonsult dot come, when you email me, I will give you my number so we can chat!

dandollar1:
@AUTOELECTNG,

Please, I will appreciate your input on this issue I posted earlier on:

Hello bro,

I have been having these codes in my Honda Accord 2007 model that uses a drive by wire system for up to a year now:

P0123
P0223
P2101
P2176

The codes have been coming on from time to time, sometimes in a space of one week, sometimes in a space of one month(as the spirit leads).

Each time it comes up, idle becomes erratic,the engine revs on its own without touching the accelerator pedal, very high idle, and sometimes the car stalls. It jerks when I shift from P to D or R, and when if I drive the car, it accelerates on its on up to 40km/Hr. I can only control it with the brakes, as there is usually no throttle response then.

I understand it has to do with the throttle body assembly. I have replaced the throttle body about four or five times.
The latest one, I had to order a new throttle body online which was fixed two weeks ago.
One week later the codes with its attendant issues resurfaced.

I really do not know what else to do.

I am in an area where I do not have access to a variety of mechanics or auto electricians and I'm just wondering if this fault can be fixed for good.

Please, any suggestion on what could be the problem?

Thank you.


NB:olaboy1 provided some input, which I tried out, but I'm still experiencing the same issue intermittently.
I am thinking of trying another ECU, but i will feel so demoralized if I did and the problem re-surfaces.

I will look into your issue and provide you feedback soon!

olaboy1:
Ok from the video it looks like my CAT has not been functioning properly to eliminate HC and CO. Kindly check the link below and give your expert advice on this Toyota tech stream reader and software for windows 10. It includes OBD2 cable and software disc

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LATEST-2018-V-2-0-4-ORIGINAL-MINI-VCI-TOYOTA-TECHSTREAM-V-11-30-030-OEM-TIS-/252676155983?hash=item3ad4ac2a4f:g:xNgAAOSwN6JY-yLf

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LATEST-2018-V-11-30-029-TOYOTA-TIS-TECHSTREAM-GTS-MINI-VCI-J2534-DIAGNOSTIC-TOOL-/272628725637?hash=item3f79f03785:g:q0EAAOSwwPhWjQHi

I would not touch those Chinese clones with a ten foot pole

See the price of the item if purchased from the only correct source - Toyota itself!

olaboy1:
Thanks for your time, I have ordered for a CAT. I do not have gas and exhaust leakages because these are the two greatest checks from the govt to pass annual MOT, infact no matter how tiny a gas or exhaust leakage is, you will never pass MOT. And my car during the MOT checks does not have any gas or exhaust leakages.
I have replaced all my sensors so I don't think I should worry about those, from what I've read it is stated that 99% of the time one would have to change the CAT when you get P0420.

My original question was considering that my fuel trims are good and no other DTC's, can I conclude that my engine is healthy.
In one of your previous posts you stated a bad CAT as one of the causes of a high HC, and then under high CO a catalytic converter was not listed. Can we assume that a new CAT would fix the high HC and high CO. Because I read somewhere that once you are able to fix the HC then the CO would take care of itself.

http://www.salemboysauto.com/faqs/faq-20.htm

Your engine is fine except for the throttle body issue which I have not looked into.

If you study the documents, given the cost of a CAT, that is the last thing to do after eliminating every other issue.

So I would say, why not exhaust the diagnostics tree?

All the same since you have already gotten the CAT, install it and do the emission test again.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HADOcrcMikA

I have a vested interest in ensuring that your vehicle passes the emissions test, it will be a fitting demonstration that this method of diagnosing a vehicle is the way forward in modern electrical/computerized vehicles

olaboy1:
You were right if I had used a proper DSO to diagnose my car's problem, maybe I would have seen exactly what the intermittent or failing components were.

After I failed emission the second time, I went on a short trip with the car before it enters the driving ban and then the dreadful catalytic converter P0420 DTC came.

Should I still go ahead and pay for a professional scan diagnosis to see if there are other problems or just go ahead and change my CAT. The freeze frame data shows the fuel trims during the time of CAT failure were perfect, meaning that it was not destroyed by improper air fuel mixture...like raw fuel getting into the CAT. I guess the CAT was degraded by the previous owner driving the car for so long with faulty oxygen sensors responsible for fuel air mixture.

By the way after I changed to a new thermostat, my engine coolant temperature is now within range instead of the 70degress I had before.

I have attached FSM explanations for both variations of engines, cannot recall which engine your vehicle uses.

To resolve this, you need a professional scan tool such as Toyota TechStream that can actuate components as well as a study of live data and/or a DSO

The FSM clearly talks above waveforms of the A/F sensor and the Oxygen Sensor

The key to solving this debacle is comparing fuel injection volumes to oxygen sensor output voltage

A professional scan tool preferably with the OEM tool Toyota Techstream is what I would recommend so we can narrow down the options to a faulty CAT or a leaking gas exhaust system, fuel pressure problems or fuel injector problems.

Please ensure you get a comprehensive printout of the state/status of the vehicle

Good DIY with respect to the thermostat

The manual refers to Toyota Intelligent Tester II, its functions have been replaced by Techstream http://alflash.com.ua/testerii.htm

Nothing beats the OEM scan tool when you have to go so deep into the diagnosis and take the time to study the pdfs with the same names as the attached graphics

olaboy1:
You were right if I had used a proper DSO to diagnose my car's problem, maybe I would have seen exactly what the intermittent or failing components were.

After I failed emission the second time, I went on a short trip with the car before it enters the driving ban and then the dreadful catalytic converter P0420 DTC came.

Should I still go ahead and pay for a professional scan diagnosis to see if there are other problems or just go ahead and change my CAT. The freeze frame data shows the fuel trims during the time of CAT failure were perfect, meaning that it was not destroyed by improper air fuel mixture...like raw fuel getting into the CAT. I guess the CAT was degraded by the previous owner driving the car for so long with faulty oxygen sensors responsible for fuel air mixture.

By the way after I changed to a new thermostat, my engine coolant temperature is now within range instead of the 70degress I had before.

Expert opinion will be out in 24 hours or less.

phibetakappa:
AutoElectNG, you are really educating us with this thread.

My pleasure!

That is the purpose of this thread, the application of the scientific method to resolving automotive problems!

It is an honor to have you around!

noxide:
OP, before you dole out heavy cash for the replacement transmission, check your fuel supply.

I had a similar issue with a car not accelerating beyond 80km/hr. After replacing the fuel pump and filter the problem stopped.

It may be your fuel pump is shot, if so you are lucky just replace it. If that's not the case you can keep the new fuel pump and filter as spare cos you will need it eventually.


Before you replace that transmission, let your mechanic inspect for frayed cables and loose connections (I'm no mech but I know the importance). You may need to scan the ECU to be sure engine and transmission are communicating fine.

Summary: Check fuel system before attacking the transmission

The chains could be mechanical or electrical. Very True. Shorts and opens aka frayed cables and loose connections

You may need to scan the ECU to be sure engine and transmission are communicating fine. No mention of the above up there.

Get professional help

Not a perfect analogy, but will serve nonetheless

Your situation is akin to someone whose brain has commanded him to walk but his two legs have been tired together and so despite the command to work, nothing happens and nothing will happen, or his legs are partially free but tied to each other with a chain thereby allowing movement but restricting movement (maximum speed of 80km/hr)


Brain = engine

Legs = Transmission

Replace Transmission,

The current replacement transmission is faulty. I would not drive around in a transmission that cannot utilize the full range of engine power, only capable of doing 80km/hr!

Don't even risk traveling to a faraway part of the same town with your ride in its current form.

You would be stranded in no time!

Listen to the voice of wisdom above from the 8th and 12th posters

honmusa:
This one that you want to start throwing part at issue ,If you are in Lagos ,bring it to my workshop @ Gbagada on Monday ,I shd be able to spare some minutes to help you diagnose this issue .call my no @ my signature

You have got offers to get the vehicle inspected by someone more knowledgeable than those you have so far patronized

Why not take up the offer?

BOLAUWA:
Thanks boss. I have changed the gearbox oil and even the gearbox filter, but no improvement.I will change the fuel pump as suggested. Thanks boss.

I want to be very polite but I nearly burst into laughter

There is no correlation between your symptoms and your proposed solution

Save your money for another transmission - advice from one man to another man!

BOLAUWA:
Greetings gurus. Pls recently my car (toyota camry pencil light automatic) broke down and refused to move. On putting it on drive or reverse, it makes a clanking sound. my mechanic said it was the gearbox, which I changed immediately. But after changing the gearbox, I have noticed the car refuses to accelerate beyond 80km /hr. I was told to clean d gearbox filter which I have done bt no improvement. Wat could be the problem? Ur advice really needed.

Bad old transmission

Bad replacement transmission albeit not as bad as the former

The 8th poster/12th poster told you the remedy

Guess this is your first case of a transmission dying!

It seems pretty clear from your inability to decode what's going on

This post is a continuation of screenshots from the Factory Service Manual of Toyota Avensis Verso 2001 - 2007 which dictates that both multi-meter and DSO tests are required.

honmusa:
Using out-of circuit test like resistance measurement of ignition oil resistance to detect failure cannot be used for definitive diagnosis decision ,most time ,the failure will not manifest until it is put in circuit and fail at a particular temperature .The best method for testing failure and misfiring in coils like ignition and injectors is perform an in-circuit test eg voltage measurement.
When dealing with ignition coil and injectors ,the signals are pulse signals so multimeter is useless in this case .
The best instrument to use in this situation is oscilloscope,from its output ,the misfiring coil and injectors will be clearly seen even if it is a subtle or intermittent failure.
Though an oscilloscope can be an expensive equipment ,it is a necessity for troubleshooting a digital and alternating signal and worth the investment for advance diagnostics.

I should have added - voltage tests and resistance test - both are basic electricity issues.

On that score you are absolutely right! We need both voltage drop and resistance tests, but I to defer to the Factory Service Manual for each vehicle, and in all cases in which I have to do troubleshooting, which is why I said "... without consulting the ultimate reference guide."

So as per the above, you can see that I made reference to Factory Service Manual. There are some vehicles which recommend resistance tests without any study of waveforms, and there are models that include the study of waveforms via an oscilloscope!

For example Honda Civic 2006 - 2009 Factory Service Manual does not suggest the use of a DSO but just a multimeter and the conducting of basic voltage/resistance test to decide whether or not to replace faulty ignition coils and injectors as as simulation tests with HDS, there is no mention of a DSO.

I have attached an example in which the Factory Service Manual makes no reference to the use of a DSO!

In Toyota Avensis Verso 2001 - 2007, both multi-meter and DSO tests are required.

From the above, it is pretty clear that there is no one size fits all, all vehicles should be treated as individuals much in the same way as a parent cannot expect success in child-rearing by treating each child identically.

Wikipedia has this to say about oscilloscopes (so I was not wrong in saying electronics in the first place), I just decided to change it to electrical because of the bolded below:

An oscilloscope, previously called an oscillograph,[1][2] and informally known as a scope, CRO (for cathode-ray oscilloscope), or DSO (for the more modern digital storage oscilloscope), is a type of electronic test instrument that allows observation of constantly varying signal voltages, usually as a two-dimensional plot of one or more signals as a function of time. Other signals (such as sound or vibration) can be converted to voltages and displayed.

Oscilloscopes are used to observe the change of an electrical signal over time, such that voltage and time describe a shape which is continuously graphed against a calibrated scale. The observed waveform can be analyzed for such properties as amplitude, frequency, rise time, time interval, distortion and others. Modern digital instruments may calculate and display these properties directly. Originally, calculation of these values required manually measuring the waveform against the scales built into the screen of the instrument.[3]

The oscilloscope can be adjusted so that repetitive signals can be observed as a continuous shape on the screen. A storage oscilloscope allows single events to be captured by the instrument and displayed for a relatively long time, allowing observation of events too fast to be directly perceptible.

Oscilloscopes are used in the sciences, medicine, engineering, automotive and the telecommunications industry. General-purpose instruments are used for maintenance of electronic equipment and laboratory work. Special-purpose oscilloscopes may be used for such purposes as analyzing an automotive ignition system or to display the waveform of the heartbeat as an electrocardiogram.

In the institutional automotive repairs class I attended, I was introduced to DSOs, and I absolutely agree that a DSO is a must for the modern automotive workshop, if a repair shop does not have one, they are under equipped so to that extent, I absolutely do agree with the below:

Though an oscilloscope can be an expensive equipment ,it is a necessity for troubleshooting a digital and alternating signal and worth the investment for advance diagnostics.


I guess we are saying the same thing after all, but you called me out that I did not cover all scenarios.


Point taken in good faith

Keep up the good work

Assuming but not conceding that John's problem is his fuel injector, because we have not yet run checks.

The difference between a professional scan tool and a code reader can be seen in the attached picture.

An understanding of how the various systems work and interrelate plus a scan tool is a must for effective and efficient modern repairs

olaboy1:
Great to have you back also, please take your time and attend to your customers also. My previous mechanic does not have the tech ability to fix my problems even something as simple as checking for vacuum leaks, so I have booked a time with a bigger workshop to diagnose and fix the problem. I have done all essential preventative servicing and still no headway my HC now 95 and CO 1.2. Even though I don't have any DTC's or misfire codes like john, it still appears on my car we still need to go John's route of Spark, Fuel and Air, and also I am suspecting a bad CAT or ignition coils, but only a professional scan tool can diagnose the actual problems without any DTC. I shall address the high CO first and also why is the CO good at 2500RPM. My ignition timing is not over advanced as it's at 10.0.

I bought a fairly used 30,000km TPS but it was super hard installing it on the throttle body and it got broken, so I had to buy another throttle body and left the TPS on it exactly how it came but I'm still getting around 30% at WOT like my old TPS. Don't know why the TPS cannot just be plug and play especially since it's not an adjustable TPS.
I will update how everything goes.

Paying customers take precedence over free customers LOL!

HC now 95 and CO 1.2, is this an improvement over the previous figures? What figures are we targeting?

We should go through the guide I sent you earlier on fixing the levels of the various gases ahead of inspection, at least your DTC free even if the operating conditions are not absolutely OK, though not wack enough to set a code.

We have to consult the FSM to determine how to resolve the TPS issue!

a professional scan tool can diagnose the actual problems without any DTC? Yes, such has its value, but maybe we need to look at the basics first.

See what I posted about ignition coils to J0hn.

Did you consult the ultimate reference guide on TPS installation?

J0hnTrevolt:
Tnx alot sir for ur time I really appreciate. When the mechanic changed all the spark plugs I asked him how about d ignition coils hope they working fine and he said they were OK. I don't know if hes right or wrong tho. I read up online and most of the cause of misfire was saying bad ignition Cool like u pointed out, bad spark plugs, bad fuel injector.
Please sir if its a bad ignition Coil do I need to change all of them?
And if its a bad fuel injector can it be serviced or getting a new one. The fuel consumption is outrageous and this is still a very beat ride.
Tnx alot sir

The bolded is totally absurd to me.

It is an electrical part, either it works or it doesn't. Which is an question that electronics electricity will answer through a measurement of resistance, which is a question mathematics would help resolve through a Digital Multi-Meter, evidence that he is trying to fix the vehicle without consulting the ultimate reference guide.

Same goes for the fuel injectors! Mathematics and Electronics electricity will provide the most accurate answer, working or not!

http://www.doityourself.com/stry/how-to-test-a-fuel-injector

olaboy1:
John you are having misfires and I believe your first point of call are your ignition coils. When I was troubleshooting my ignition coils, I unplugged the coils and got all those codes, and erased the codes when I was finished.

I was also told by a top tech guy in Toyota company that one bad ignition coil could cause others to have problems and throw those codes.
You will have bad gas mileage since your combustion chamber is not well fired by your ignition system. Maybe you could also eliminate a timing problem, and check that your fuel delivery system is working good like your fuel pump, fuel filter and injectors are spitting fuel properly.

If I were to fix this myself, before I start looking everywhere I will make sure the components throwing those codes are checked first before sub components, meaning I will carry out proper electrical resistance and voltage checks on all the ignition coils, then next the wires coming to the plugs, and finally ECU pins supplying voltage to the coils. If all these pass then we might be looking at other causes.

Nice to have you again, I know you asked a lot of questions that I did not answer.

I will try to ensure that I dispose of all of them before next week runs out!

How is your ride?

Any issues?

Very thoughtful!

More grease to your elbow!!

Love the idea!!!

J0hnTrevolt:
Tnx alot sir for your detailed response. I'm very grateful.
The vehicle is a direct tokunbo, the engine has not bn tampered before for over six months. I changed all spark plugs and d problem persists. many a time the car jerks/vibrates and it still consumes fuel. I can remember months back a mechanic said there was air leak or something under and I had to employ d service of a welder who welded d leak or something.
Im in the east at d moment.
I do not want trial n error mechanic on d vehicle.
Please sir I really need to know where to start cos am a novice on anything vehicle related cos I want a situation I can authoritatively tell my mechanic "this is wat is wrong and I want u to fix it"
And it also consumes more fuel jus by turning and offing the ignition. Most times I leave d engine running cos I observed wen I off and on d ignition the fuel guage always go down.
Tnx

Where are you based?

J0hnTrevolt:

I have given you some of my time, see posts above, are we OK now?

J0hnTrevolt:
HELP PLEASE OOOO!
Scanned my toyota avalon 2002 model and it threw up these codes
P0300
P0301
P0303
P0305

Please wat do I do and how do I go about it.
A mechanic has been suggesting I change my 02sensor and spark plugs but I need a second opinion. The ride consumes fuel BTW.
Tnx

No Oxygen sensor code above!

But so you better understand the problem that your vehicle is having could you read this: http://www.aa1car.com/library/misfire.htm

Was any work done on the engine prior to this happening? Was the engine taken apart? Were hoses disconnected? You get the gist!

This is an ignition system related fault.

Possible issues are:

Coil Packs due for change: Electrical resistance tests can confirm or disprove this!

Ignition Wires due for change: Electrical resistance tests can confirm or disprove this!

Plugs: No electrical test for this, replace with recommended if a certain mileage has been reached.

Did you swap coils and the problem jumped cylinders?

Courtesy of troubleshootmyvehicle dot com What Is a Misfire Condition?


In the simplest of terms, a misfiring cylinder is a cylinder that's ‘dead’, because it's missing one of the 3 things it needs for the combustion process to take place. It'll be missing fuel (gasoline), or spark, or air (compression).

Where is your location? I can feel that you are at your wits end. I am so sorry that I could not provide you assistance much earlier.

Like I said I wanted to give you a detailed response not a one liner.

I want you to understand what is wrong, not just to take my word for what is wrong. And I had to attend to other issues.

If you better understand how things work, you will better appreciate the work that goes into restoring a broken system.

I'll try to see how much help I can render!

If you have questions, feel free to fire them and I will see how much help I can render from my end.

Take care.

This is not for your vehicle but it gives you an idea what is involved in troubleshooting this, http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/toyota/1.8L/how-to-test-misfire-codes-1 to fix your vehicle, I would recommend that we follow the workflow outlined in your Factory Service Manual which I do have access to at the moment

AutoElectNG:
This might help

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/ignition-system.htm

and this video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arWoIjk6seA

J0hnTrevolt, please study above link and watch above video!

Software and Electronics taking over vehicle control from mechanicals


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ5BrRhiRso

You need a scan tool that can read all vehicle computer modules not just Engine, Transmission and ABS

If you have got a modern car, then you have got several computer modules controlling mechanical functions!

The picture demonstrates the power of a scan tool with bi-directional controls that can actuate stuff independently of the PCM/ECU/ECM!

Thread not forgotten

With due regard to all modesty, I got a contract job to prepare some technical documentation

If you have studied this thread you will agree that I have a knack for breaking difficult concepts into very simple and easy to understand principles

So when I conclude this contract towards month end, I will come back and attend to all the issues raised

I am unable to because of the tight deadlines

Have fun all of ya!

J0hnTrevolt:

Chasing Dollars

You know the economy is not far to those earning Naira

But I will see how to sort you out this weekend.

I could easily write a one-liner but I will consult the factory service manual, I will consult third party fix databases, is this problem common to this vehicle, what do mechanics around the world have to say about those codes as they relate to your vehicle, what else should you be aware of, are there updated part numbers, are there any applicable technical service bulletins, boy you are getting for free what people pay top dollar for, so be patient with me....

And stop hating on my first nairaland client... you should try to be like him instead!

GuageLTD:
ok boss... can I pls av ur mail so I can contact U directly

You will better appreciate my contributions when you read this page:

http://www.ebay.com/gds/AUTOMOTIVE-SCAN-TOOLS-WHICH-ONE-TO-BUY-OEM-OR-GENERIC-/10000000004909670/g.html

The issue that it takes a lot of time to write high quality content, so since time is a luxury, let me rather share high quality content on the issue written by someone else.

That guy did a job as good as I would have done if I gave the task the time.

Hope you read it and get the point of all those questions I asked you to consider!

Knowledge they say is power!