₦airaland Forum

vapid:
Thanks a lot guys. I gave the car to a mechanic who did the diagnostic. I will post the code on this thread tomorrow morning.
I really appreciate the comment guys.

Happy to help.

An educated driver is better for the motoring community!

olaboy1:
I believe my MAF sensor is partly or wholly responsible for the car's poor performance. Before first cleaning I had -21.9 in STFT, after first cleaning it came down to -8, second cleaning around -0.78 to -3.
The first time I cleaned it I didn't realize there was a second filament inside, I was too careful because of some videos I saw of a guy cleaning it with so much care. As a matter of fact I only sprayed it with cleaner and never scrub it. Second cleaning I sprayed the other newly discovered filament inside and STFT became better.

So I have seen a YouTube video on the proper way to clean it with disc brake cleaner, and I'm positive this cleaning would bring down both STFT and LTFT.


What exactly should I be concerned about from the following components
MAF sensor
MAP sensor
IAC
IAT
They all seem to be controlling air.

The most important factor or subsystem is the MAF sensor, see these videos


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3QuuEPef4k


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iWH4zyV5u4

Does your vehicle use a MAP sensor? We think not!

Does your IAC valve have a problem? We think not! And we believe that m_05_0086 agrees with us!

Does your IAT have a problem? Well see m_05_0064 to understand how it functions. We don't think so

Having replaced the air filter and cleaned the MAF, please report the STFT and LTFT using the format earlier provided to you!

We have seen all your posts - as will respond as time permits.

My question is if my STFT and LTFT are in the range of +/-3, does this mean my car is healthy and I will no longer experience any drivability issues and less gasoline consumption and finally pass the almighty emission test?

Your STFT and LTFT should be less than 10!

Let me quote aa1car for you:

What Fuel Trim Values Should Be

Ideally, the STFT and LTFT should be within a few percentage points of zero when the engine is idling or being held at a steady RPM. Remember, STFT can bounce around quite a bit as when you suddenly snap open the throttle or decelerate. But LTFT can tell you if the average fuel/mixture is running rich or lean.

Good LTFT values should be as close to zero as possible, though they can range from 5 to 8 percent depending on the condition of the engine. If the LTFT is getting up around 10 percent or higher, it usually indicates a problem that needs to be diagnosed.

Source: http://www.aa1car.com/library/what_is_fuel_trim.htm

rebella:
It's Japanese, thanks a lot, I really appreciate your help

Has any work been done on the fuel tank? Or around it? If yes, what work.

Has the rear passenger seat been taken off before?

Have you ever replaced the fuel pump on this vehicle?

J0hnTrevolt:
How one person go jus dominate a public thread beats me

The codes have been explained.

The fix will be posted tomorrow.

Juggling several tasks and trying our best to please you as well!

rebella:
Hi AutoElectNG, any feedback please

Please your Honda Civic is for which market?

So I can determine which Factory Service Manual to follow in fixing your issue!

That is holding me back now! Plus of course time to spare from other commitments

2001 HONDA CIVIC FINAL COMMENTS

olaboy1:
I like your analysis on solving high HC and CO at idle. I have decided to give the car a comprehensive servicing first, actually it's something I do when I buy a used car but for some reason I just took the words of the previous owner as golden...will never make that mistake next time.
As for the comprehensive service I bought all from Toyota company direct brand new to avoid incompatible after market parts or wrong part numbers.
I have changed air filter. Mine uses 17801-0D011, the car had LX 1286
I have changed spark plugs, and in the process I noticed one of the wire harnesses of plug no2 was sitting tightly under the plug cap of no3, so maybe the wire has been compromised or ripped off. I couldn't tell as the wires were secured by a a wrap and I didn't want to tear open the wrap to see the conditions of the wires inside....either way I am going to carry out thorough inspection of the plug wires.
FSM recommended just two plug numbers and what I found in the car was the right make of plug but different part number (NGK IFR6T11)
FSM says Denso SK20R11 or NGK IFR6A11

I am changing oil and oil filter, fuel filter, PCV valve because when I took out air filter box, the other extension was very oily inside which leaves me to believe that the PCV is not doing a good job of sucking off the oil or taking off the pressurized oil from the crankcase and recycling it through the right channel into the combustion chamber, but rather due to the pressure at the crankcase it is sending OIL back the same breather hose it should be getting AIR from which is the hose connected to the air filter box. And I think it's better to replace inexpensive parts for a car this mileage.
I will have my mechanic also take out the AGR/EGR valve for proper cleaning as this and PCV valve are known to cause high emissions and fail emission test.
Lastly I have also ordered for OEM thermostat and I will flush out all the engine coolant and replace with fresh anti freeze engine coolant with a new thermostat. I am doing this because the car had too little engine coolant before and I don't know if the engine coolant was ever changed, and when I drove around for like 25 mins monitoring my engine coolant temperature it was just showing 70* celcius and my FSM says it needs to be 80-95 when it's warmed. However once I'm parked and leave the engine running then it starts going up gradually up to 85, so I'm not satisfied that my engine coolant on motion is reading lower than specified and I believe 80km/h for 20mins should be enough to get the car properly warmed up.
Once I'm done with this service I will get back to you on STFT and LTFT. I did not change air filter, engine oil and oil filter before my emission test, and I did not drive it for 1hr before the test, the guy at the center drove it for like 35 minutes or so.
I don't think my MAF is bad because after cleaning it, the grams on my OBD live data changed immediately from 2.96grams to 3.65grams.

I know this analogy may sound funny but it's the truth. I have a Bosch coffee maker the one you use tablets for, and at some point it got clogged and no water would come out. I took out all the parts and cleaned off all the debris and it's working like brand new again.
So I'm thinking if this car hasn't worked properly and combusted fine due to oxygen sensor problems then most likely we may have carbon build up and getting out those carbons would make a big difference, but ironically when I pulled out the old plugs from the car, they had no carbon at all, more like the threaded parts little wet with fuel and not oil and just inactive. Isn't there a way to decarbonise a car completely without taking parts out.

From my OBD live data my timing advance is at 10 degrees and FSM says ignition timing of cylinder 1 should be between 5-15 degrees, so can we rule out ignition timing issue, but I don't know about timing chain (crankshaft and camshaft timing) or are they same thing.
I will also find a way to do the smoke test for vacuum leak, what do you recommend since I don't have any propane machine.
My STFT and LTFT for bank 1 are in the single digit of + or - 9, while my STFT and LTFT for bank 2 are in the double digits of + or - 14.
I am trying to find EGR system in the FSM PDF files. I need info on EGR vacuum solenoid, VSV and the modulator, just to be 100% sure my EGR system functions properly.

This might help

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/ignition-system.htm

and this video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arWoIjk6seA

double post

jbonito:
This is my opinion!! I bought a 2005 Acura TL Dec 2015 and after driving for 13 months, I had same issue February this year. Car was scanned and sensor got changed for 15k. There were other 2 error codes but they all got cleared after my nuzzles and plugs were cleaned. Since then and now my car has been running as smooth as when I just got it. Check engine light off too. So I'm guessing ure buying bad sensors or your car has an underlying problem.

Cheers

Vapid

This guy had your problem, if not the same, very close.

He says that he scanned the vehicle, but you have not indicated that yours was scanned.

He says he got DTCs, but you have not indicated that you got DTCs. Neither have you shared them here!

He says that he replaced the part with tokunbo, you say you replaced the part with tokunbo thrice!

He says that his check engine light went off after the part was replaced, it is clear that your check engine light stayed back on after the part was replaced.

So in effect you wasted money, because the problem was not resolved.

So you need to know the DTC(s),
you need to know the resolution process for the DTC,
you need to know what values to expect from the sensor in other words live data,
put another way a scan tool is required to verify the repair.

Only after the repair has been verified, that is only after the tokunbo part has proved that is within acceptable specifications, should you pay for that part.

Otherwise, you will run around in circles.

Find someone who can confirm that the APP sensor is your only problem, if they are having problems finding a good used part, then import a known good new one, and you should be fine.

Morale: A tokunbo part can be bad or good, as the poster am quoting has indicated and your experience also shows, but there is a way to know before parting with cash. I have a personal experience in which a MAF used worked but was providing false values, without a scan tool you would never know. Another MAF tokunbo replaced it, but this one sent out outputs within specification

Be properly guided, and stop wasting your funds in this recession!

vapid:
Hi guys

I recently (3 months ago) bought a tokunbor acura tl 2007. After about one month, I noticed the car suddenlystops stopped firing. Took it to a mechanic who said it's the throttle sensor. He fixed it and gave it back to me. After two weeks it got bad again. I took it back to him and he fixed it again. I used it for about a month and it got bad. I was tired of him at this point and took it to a new mechanic who replaced the throttle sensor with a new one. Used it for about two weeks and it got bad again last Friday. He took the carmarthen, diagnosed and fixed it and brought it back today.
I used the car for about 30 mins and the issue came up again.

Now these are very good mechanics who came highly recommended.
I'm at my wits end and don't know what to do.

Advice please

Did you scan the vehicle? At the first mechanic? At the second mechanic?

If yes, did it throw codes?

What codes did it throw?

The parts that were replaced? New or used? The first time? The second time? The third time?

After they suggested a part replacement, did they use a scanner to verify the repair?

If you could provide the codes, it would be easier to help you.

You have been properly advised - throwing parts at the problem has failed your more than once, you have to adopt a different strategy.

olaboy1:
Reporting to class. I bought the car used from a lady at around 211,000km, and the only thing I could make out of this is that the lady had no interest and knowledge about car care as there are many pointers to this. Very low radiator coolant, wrong wiper blades, no wiper water, low battery water level etc

I have gone into the service booklet and Toyota recommended service intervals are
1. Half service every 15,000km or every year change oil and oil filter
2. Full service and security controls like brakes etc every 30,000km or every 2nd year

The last recorded service history from the service book are full service at 150,000 and half service at 165,000. Can't say if she has been servicing it using regular mechanics without any record.

The car is just 2 weeks old with me and I want to put it in a perfect working condition.
Only repair I did was trying to replace the downstream oxygen sensors and cleared the codes and the check engine light came back.
Yes I have drivability issue along with the MIL. The RPM is too high at idle (1500rpm when cold at idle and around 700rpm when engine is warmed up), gas consumption as a result of sluggish movement when you try to overtake, you press the throttle pedal down to the max and the car is not responding in speed accordingly. More like something is stuck in the car's throat, little seconds delay when you try to crank the engine to start (I mean the car doesn't start at once, you need to hold the ignition key at the start position for like 5 seconds whilst the engine spins fine with good compression, my other car starts in 2 seconds and finally the engine vibrates little at idling position. The car was diagnosed by qualified govt emission control center and the checks came back with the following:
1. MIL

2. Idling CO/HC too high


3. Increased idle value incorrect (guess they are referring to the rpm at idle)

OBD2 error codes identified
P0161-O2 sensor oxygen circuit low voltage (bank 2, sensor 2)
P0141-O2 sensor heater circuit malfunction (bank 1, sensor 2)
P0340-Camshaft position sensor circuit malfunction
OBD self test not performed (I'm not sure what they mean by self test)

***observation****. As I was typing the above information about the old condition of the car, my mechanic plugged his laptop to scan for DTC's and the DTC's have totally changed from the previous information. I am attaching the new DTC's.
My mechanic doesn't want to spend his time in trying to diagnose the root cause of all the sensors problems, and I asked him if he has a scanner that can give us an oscilloscopic data of what's going on with the sensors, he said he doesn't have and I should just go ahead and buy new sensors. Mechanics are only interested in changing parts.
Can a OBD2 wifi scanner for Apple iPad solve my problem, or do I need to find another mechanic that has a more professional scanner to help me trouble shoot this problem. My mechanic did not even bother to check for vacuum leaks or any mechanical or electrical faults that could throw out those error codes. I have seen several videos on sensor problems, and directly changing the sensors is not a wise economic decision to take. Of course I understand with the current mileage of the car, the sensors should be changed anyway as a form of periodic service, but I want to be 100% sure I don't have other issues to address that could be something as simple as intake manifold gasket.
So guys now I have A/F upstream and downstream sensors issues
Bank 1 sensor 1 error code P1135
Bank 2 sensor 1 error code P1155
Bank 1 sensor 2 no error code
Bank 2 sensor 2 error code P0161

After reviewing your case, it is clear that since it took longer than expected to resolve, we forgot the bolded otherwise we would have postponed the emission test.

Hope you have seen the instructions for resolving the bolded, please provide feedback when done!

Apparently apart from that there are no other problems in the emission test report!

2001 HONDA CIVIC P1457

2001 HONDA CIVIC P0730

2001 HONDA CIVIC P0141

2001 HONDA CIVIC in the service bay

TOYOTA AVALON 2002 FINAL COMMENTS

TOYOTA AVALON 2002 P0305

cc:J0hnTrevolt

P0305 MEANS


P = Powertrain Code (engine or transmission)
0 = Generic OBD Code defined by SAE
3 = Ignition System or Misfire
05 = Specific Code for the Exact problem of this ride, we need to consult the code books to tell us what/which circuit and component is at fault which yields the following information: Cylinder #5 Misfire Detected

The P0305 code means that your engine is misfiring and the PCM/ECU is able to localize the fault to a particular cylinder that is Cylinder #5.

TOYOTA AVALON 2002 P0303

cc:J0hnTrevolt

P0303 MEANS


P = Powertrain Code (engine or transmission)
0 = Generic OBD Code defined by SAE
3 = Ignition System or Misfire
03 = Specific Code for the Exact problem of this ride, we need to consult the code books to tell us what/which circuit and component is at fault which yields the following information: Cylinder #3 Misfire Detected

The P0303 code means that your engine is misfiring and the PCM/ECU is able to localize the fault to a particular cylinder that is Cylinder #3.

TOYOTA AVALON 2002 P0301

cc:J0hnTrevolt

P0301 MEANS


P = Powertrain Code (engine or transmission)
0 = Generic OBD Code defined by SAE
3 = Ignition System or Misfire
01 = Specific Code for the Exact problem of this ride, we need to consult the code books to tell us what/which circuit and component is at fault which yields the following information: Cylinder #1 Misfire Detected

The P0301 code means that your engine is misfiring and the PCM/ECU is able to localize the fault to a particular cylinder that is Cylinder #1.

TOYOTA AVALON 2002 P0300

cc:J0hnTrevolt

P0300 MEANS


P = Powertrain Code (engine or transmission)
0 = Generic OBD Code defined by SAE
3 = Ignition System or Misfire
00 = Specific Code for the Exact problem of this ride, we need to consult the code books to tell us what/which circuit and component is at fault which yields the following information: Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected

The P0300 code means that your engine is misfiring but the PCM/ECU is unable to localize the fault to a particular cylinder or to some specific cylinders.

TOYOTA AVALON 2002 in the service bay

cc:J0hnTrevolt

The Toyota Avalon is a full-size car produced by Toyota in the United States, and is the flagship sedan of Toyota in the United States, Canada, Puerto Rico, and the Middle East. It was also produced in Australia from 2000 until July 2005, when it was replaced in November 2006 by the Toyota Aurion. The first Toyota Avalon rolled off the assembly line in Georgetown, Kentucky, on February 21, 1994, as a 1995 model. A second-generation model was released in the United States and Japan in 1999.

Toyota marketed the Avalon as a replacement for the Toyota Cressida, a model discontinued for the American market in 1992. While the Cressida was an upper-level midsize rear-wheel-drive car with a straight-six engine, the Avalon is front-wheel-drive, powered by a V6 engine. In recent years, there has been considerable overlapping with its platform mates, the Toyota Camry V6 and the Lexus ES, although the third-generation Avalon was distinguished by offering extra legroom.[1] For its fourth generation, the Avalon was introduced on a platform that is shared with the Lexus ES.[2]

As of 2013, the Toyota Avalon is available in the United States, Canada, Puerto Rico, South Korea, and the Middle East.

Avalon is a legendary island featured in the Arthurian legend.

The second-generation Avalon grew larger in almost every respect, except wheelbase. It was still based on the stretched Camry platform and was powered by a 3.0-liter 1MZ-FE V6 engine equipped with VVT-i, shared with the Toyota Sienna, Lexus RX300, Lexus ES, and the Toyota Highlander, making 210 hp (157 kW) and 220 lb·ft (298 N·m). of torque and paired to a 4-speed automatic. The styling remained conservative to appeal to older buyers and the coefficient of drag had been reduced to Cd=0.28.

Content courtesy Wikipedia

2007 Honda Civic IVTEC #5

2007 Honda Civic IVTEC #4

2007 Honda Civic IVTEC #3

2007 Honda Civic IVTEC #2

2007 Honda Civic IVTEC #1

2007 Honda Civic IVTEC P1298

2007 Honda Civic IVTEC P1077

2007 Honda Civic IVTEC P0498

2007 Honda Civic IVTEC P0453

2007 Honda Civic IVTEC P0141

P0141 MEANS


P = Powertrain Code (engine or transmission)
0 = Generic OBD Code defined by SAE
1 = Emission Management (Fuel or Air)
41 = Specific Code for the Exact problem of this ride, we need to consult the code books to tell us what/ which circuit and component is at fault
which yields the following information: Secondary HO2S (Sensor 2) heater

From the Factory Service Manual:

DTC Troubleshooting: P0141 (65)

DTC P0141: Secondary HO2S (Sensor 2) Heater Circuit Malfunction

NOTE: Before you troubleshoot, record all freeze data and any on-board snapshot, and review the general troubleshooting information.

1. Turn the ignition switch ON (II).

2. Clear the DTC with the HDS.

3. Start the engine.

4. Check for Temporary DTCs or DTCs with the HDS.

Is DTC P0141 indicated?

YES - Go to 5.

NO - Intermittent failure, system is OK at this time. Check for poor connections or loose terminals at the secondary HO2S (Sensor 2) and the ECM/ PCM.n

5. Turn the ignition switch OFF.

6. Check the No. 3 ALTERNATOR (10 A) fuse in the under-dash fuse/relay box.

Is the fuse OK?

YES - Go to 7.

NO - Repair short in the wire between the secondary HO2S (Sensor 2) and the No. 3 ALTERNATOR (10 A) fuse. Also replace the No. 3 ALTERNATOR (10 A) fuse, then go to 22.

7. Disconnect the secondary HO2S (Sensor 2) 4P connector.

8. At the secondary HO2S (Sensor 2) side, measure resistance between secondary HO2S (Sensor 2) 4P connector terminals No. 3 and No. 4.



Is there 5.4-6.6 W at room temperature?

YES - Go to 9.

NO - Go to 21.

9. At the secondary HO2S (Sensor 2) side, check for continuity between body ground and secondary HO2S (Sensor 2) 4P connector terminals No. 3 and No. 4 individually.



Is there continuity?

YES - Go to 21.

NO - Go to 10.

10. Turn the ignition switch ON (II).

11. Measure voltage between secondary HO2S (Sensor 2) 4P connector terminals No. 3 and No. 4.



Is there battery voltage?

YES - Go to 12.

NO - Go to 16.

12. Turn the ignition switch OFF.

13. Jump the SCS line with the HDS.

14. Disconnect ECM/PCM connector B (44P).

15. Check for continuity between ECM/PCM connector terminal B4 and body ground.



Is there continuity?

YES - Repair short in the wire between the ECM/PCM (B4) and the secondary HO2S (Sensor 2), then go to 22.

NO - Go to 28.

16. Measure voltage between secondary HO2S (Sensor 2) 4P connector terminal No. 3 and body ground.



Is there battery voltage?

YES - Go to 17.

NO - Repair open in the wire between the secondary HO2S (Sensor 2) and the No. 3 ALTERNATOR (10 A) fuse, then go to 22.

17. Turn the ignition switch OFF.

18. Jump the SCS line with the HDS.

19. Disconnect ECM/PCM connector B (44P).

20. Check for continuity between secondary HO2S (Sensor 2) 4P connector terminal No. 4 and ECM/PCM connector terminal B4.



Is there continuity?

YES - Go to 28.

NO - Repair open in the wire between the ECM/PCM (B4) and the secondary HO2S (Sensor 2), then go to 22.

21. Replace the secondary HO2S (Sensor 2).

22. Reconnect all connectors.

23. Turn the ignition switch ON (II).

24. Reset the ECM/PCM with the HDS.

25. Do the ECM/PCM idle learn procedure.

26. Check for Temporary DTCs or DTCs with the HDS.

Are any Temporary DTCs or DTCs indicated?

YES - If DTC P0141 is indicated, check for poor connections or loose terminals at the secondary HO2S (Sensor 2) and the ECM/PCM, then go to 1. If any other Temporary DTCs or DTCs are indicated, go to the indicated DTC's troubleshooting.

NO - Go to 27.

27. Monitor the OBD STATUS for DTC P0141 in the DTCs MENU with the HDS.

Does the screen indicate PASSED?

YES - Troubleshooting is complete.n

NO - If the screen indicates FAILED, check for poor connections or loose terminals at the secondary HO2S (Sensor 2) and the ECM/PCM, then go to 1. If the screen indicates NOT COMPLETED, go to 25 and recheck.

28. Update the ECM/PCM if it does not have the latest software, or substitute a known-good ECM/PCM.

29. Check for Temporary DTCs or DTCs with the HDS.

Are any Temporary DTCs or DTCs indicated?

YES - If DTC P0141 is indicated, check for poor connections or loose terminals at the secondary HO2S (Sensor 2) and the ECM/PCM, then go to 1. If any other Temporary DTCs or DTCs are indicated, go to the indicated DTC's troubleshooting.

NO - If the ECM/PCM was updated, troubleshooting is complete. If the ECM/PCM was substituted, replace the original ECM/PCM.n

One of these pictures is courtesy Aero777

cc:rebella

2007 Honda Civic IVTEC in the service bay

We have another vehicle in the service bay, the second vehicle.

Here is what Wikipedia says about it:

The eighth generation of the Honda Civic was introduced in September 2005, for the 2006 model year. This generation introduced the "two-tier" instrument panel. In many countries (USA, UK, New Zealand), all models (including the base model) come standard with power windows, anti-lock brakes (ABS), and side/curtain airbags (for a total of six airbags). Additionally, the 2006 models acquired ULEV-2 (Ultra Low Emission Vehicle) certification and boast a more powerful 1.8-litre engine than the 2005 counterparts while retaining almost equal fuel economy.

In the North American market, the sedan and coupe styles are available, which were designed in Japan and Ohio, respectively. The sedan and coupe are available in several trim levels (DX, DX-G, LX, EX, EX-L, and Si). The Hybrid only comes as a sedan, while the Si coupe was joined by a sedan in 2007, and the Si sedan entered the Canadian lineup in 2008. 2008 saw the addition of new interior features such as a 60/40 rear folding seat and remote trunk release for LX models (previously only available on EX models), while 2009 models had a mid-generation refresh most notable on the front grille. In Canada, the Japanese-market type Civic 2.0GL is sold as the Acura CSX, and uses a 155 hp (116 kW) K20Z2. A CSX Type-S is also sold, which is similar, but instead is equipped with the Civic Si drivetrain (197 hp K20Z3 and 6-speed transmission).

One of these pictures is courtesy Aero777