₦airaland Forum

Mr_Anony: No speculation. I have proven that a supernatural (i.e. a realm not subject to space and time) must exist. Within this realm, the cause for spacetime must exist. The point is that if these are true then an eternal being is very plausible. I will still go further but I want us to reach a consensus with each step.

No.
You have not proven a supernatural must exist, you proved a supernatural realm MAY exist.
(note-supernatural as defined by you earlier)
That's different.

I may also conceive a multi-verses. With logical backups.
It doesn't necessarily mean they exist.

Speculations with little information is very bad. It usually lead to wrong answers.

As @Wie pointed out, if the cause of our universe is present in that realm, then that realm becomes part of our universe. As far as we are concerned, there's been no sign of a supernatural realm.

We just do not Know.

Mr_Anony: If it is true that a realm not subject to space, time and natural laws exists, Then there is a possibility that a being which is timeless and spaceless can exist in this realm i.e. an eternal being. Do you agree?

(Note: this is not proof yet that God exists but that God can exist)

Yes.

Let me remind you. This is speculation. We are piling unproven scenarios on topp each other. Reality may be very different.

Bélla3: Even though i agree with you, and even think children shouldnt be baptised until they are 12 so they knw what they're initiated to. Am just amazed on why an athiest is bothered on who a grown adult shud listen to.

I'm surprised. This isn't an atheist thing. Why would you listen to a Kid for life advice?

A grown adult that receives advice from such a source is irresponsible and must not be taken seriously.

Mr_Anony: I am not proposing a maybe. Perhaps you don't like the word supernatural. . .by supernatural, I mean something beyond the natural - forget all the fantasy stuff you may associate as part of the "supernatural" for now.
All I am saying is that if it is true that space and time have a cause, then the cause cannot be subject to space and time therefore something exists that is not subject to space and time.
I call it supernatural, if you like you can call it an alternate universe, it doesn't make that much difference what you call it really.

OK

Mr_Anony: Continuing.......if it is true that this cause of the universe transcends the natural, we can deduce that there must be a realm beyond the natural from which it is possible to bring natural events to be. This tells us that a supernatural realm must exist. Do you agree? If not, give your contentions.

(Note: It doesn't prove God, or the exact nature of the supernatural all it tells us for now is that a supernatural realm exists)

Now, now, Mr Anony. Supernatural is your own description. What you think it may be.

You are also making an assumption that a pre-beginning of this universe is still existing. It is not as far as we know.
It also doesn't tell us a supernatural must exist. It just tells us something MAY have existed. Maybe another universe with a different set of natural laws. Maybe another dimension. Maybe a lot of things.

Mr_Anony: Stick to the argument I am actually presenting and not where you think I am heading to.
I am not speculating at all, I am only presenting simple logic to you. If spacetime has an origin and hence a cause, it logically follows that this cause must transcend spacetime no matter what it turns out to be.

OK.

Mr_Anony: Classic sidestepping.
All I am saying is that if nature and spacetime has a cause, then that cause cannot be subject to nature and spacetime. This is simple logic

That's the current speculation. I said I agree with most of what you said.

But, we are not talking our planet here. Until we get conclusive proof this is what occurred, It will remain speculation. You cannot discount space time and nature.

I see you are going into apologetics. Uncaused cause. You cannot know this. You do not know what happened pre-beginning of the universe.

I expect you to jump to the next 'logical' position. This uncaused cause is God and it is the christian God. Ok. I hear.

Mr_Anony: The question now following would be: What does it mean to be the cause of the universe?
I suggest to you that such a cause must necessarily be outside nature and spacetime

Do you agree? If not, please provide your contentions

Not necessarily. I agree with most of what you said tho.
At this stage, its all speculation in cosmology. You cannot discount spacetime and nature.

I won't make ANY predictions. I won't also descend into terminologies. I'm not a physicist.

@Crazyman. I understand.

Take your time.

Mr_Anony: Guys, let me just run this argument by y'all. You've probably heard it a lot of times before.

Everything that comes into being has a cause
The universe came into being
Therefore the universe has a cause.

Do y'all agree with this argument?

(mind you, I am talking about just the argument and what it plainly says not whatever extra meanings you may want to read from it)

Yes! I agree. As far as I'm concerned.

Now don't go coloring it with apologetics.

fellis: Stop that your 'Ah this' and 'Ah that' you keep typing. Must you announce to everybody that you are a typical yoruba man?

@topic,
atheists do not have a common universal belief system. Even the humanism stuff you wrote about is not an atheistic belief system as there are atheists that do not support that school of thought.
Apart from disbelief in God, there is nothing else that atheists everywhere share the same opinion. Even theists(christians and muslims) with their religious books and doctrines don't have one single thing bringing them together, they still have sects and all what not.

But I'm a yoruba man faa

You are correct. No philosophy behind it. Atheists are not always humanist. Even Macdaddy isn't sure what can bring us together.

Maybe science? Aggressive progress? Intellectuality?
These doesn't particularly absorb most masses into its fold. There will always be religions. I just want all religionists to reason like you. That's how all relatively religious nations progress. People must reason!

wiegraf: No crazyman, you did not reply my second post, which was related to the first. If you weren't going to you should not have asked. At least you brought mr anony out to play

imagine!

He's going biblical. Voiding our agreement.
I v replied Mr Anony in anticipation sef.

MacDaddy01: No problem.


I will see what I can do about this atheist/humanist convention. I havent been to Nigeria in over a year. Lagos here i come!

You know I opened a thread once asking how to tackle religionists. I m going to be Nigeria's foremost aggressive atheist. Beat you to it.

the advice I got was to acquire money and power. Once I do that, You will hear of me.
But if I don't, well, I will try my best with my family.

MacDaddy01: You're not ready to meet other atheists? Why?

Ahh, macdaddy, that's not what I meant. I said I will attend a naija atheist convention, didn't I?

I'm not interested in looking for atheists in my vicinity right now. I live in a rather small town. I don't think there will be any.

Maybe when I'm in Lagos, or settled in Lagos, by all means, I will know some atheists. Atleast to discuss how to promote humanism and reason.

Mr_Anony: Since you have already concluded that God does not exist and even if God did, you won't worship God. Why then do you want proof? What exactly do you want Crazyman to prove since you have already reached a foregone conclusion before even asking the question?

Since you are so assured that such a scenario will not come up, perhaps you may want to tell Crazyman exactly how you came to the conclusion logically that God cannot possibly exist.

Seems like Crazyman is back.

I didn't say God possibly cannot exist. He DOES not exist.
Obito could not possibly be Tobi. Mr Kishi says different

I revere Pres Goodluck Jonathan. because of powers he has over me as leader of my country. I revere my father. If God exist, I will surely revere him proportionally.

Simple. There is no proof for God. Proofs usually brought forward can be accurately explained by other means.

Why I want proof? No b u talk say e dey? Abeg jooo

mkmyers45: where is the OP?

Where is he?

@Mr Anony.

I will not reply you. Replying you will merely derail this thread even further.

Once Crazyman posts his reply, I will answer you.

Mr_Anony: Been watching from the sidelines however let me ask: If God was proven to you logically, would you find God to be worthy of your worship?

Big IF.
Since logic has not proven God, it follows that God will have to prove himself.
The kinds of omnieverything God most religions espoused do not deserve any worship. Infact, worshipping him is an unnecessary exercise.

Unless he forces me to worship him( within his power) , I surely will NOT worship that maniac.

But hey, he doesn't exist. So, the scenario will not come up.

I'm still waiting

I'm not an ex-christian. No biblical quotations.

Can't say anything. I v never met another atheist. I don't want to, yet anyway.



Humanism.

^listening to a 8 year old for life advice is........ You may complete it.

^no, you are not. Many threads have been opened discussing it.



Their Morality is significantly different from yours. So what you see as bad may not necessarily be evil with them. So, some just ignore arguments. They are what they are.

I don't agree with it.

EDITED.



Christian child preachers.

CrazyMan: You just exposed your ignorance here.

If humans don't dominate lions, then how come its in a zoo or cage controled by humans?

Aaaaaaarrrrrrrggghhhhh.

Polish your sarcasm detector.

I said ON A TOTALLY UNRELATED NOTE. I even added 'false' at the end!

Now, please can you reply to the TOTALLY RELATED words I wrote before the unrelated one.

Thanks.

CrazyMan: God exists

Allow me to prove it with science

You must note that If a being exists, its explanation must also exist. And its existence is explained either by itself or by another.

Now for millions of people around the globe to including well learned proffessurs open websites, start seminars, open a tv channel just to support or oppose the fact that he (God) exists should be enough reason to tell you that he does exist. Because if he doesn't believe me people including you who made this post wouldn't bother themselves. People love to talk when this kind of issue comes up because they know deep down that something exists up there. They just want a proper conviction.


Also, take a look at the human brain...simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.

The human brain is said to process more than a million messages a second. Have you ever asked yourself how possible that is without the help of a supernatural being.

Even scientists have tried over the years to produce a cloned human just to prove that humans are mere mortals, but guess what, they have failed and they would keep failing becaus they can never create what God took his precious time to create.

Secondly, the brain as you and I know fully well, functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people.

Have you ever asked yourself what powers this wonderful device to keep running without any form of malfunction, because you cannot possibly make me believe that such a wondeful device appeared into the body of man.

You must also note that animals also have brains...but what differinciates theirs from ours is that ours was specially created to rule and dominate.

This should be enough evidence to prove that God exists.

God exists and that's why.

1- A lot of people argue over God so therefore he must exist.
2-Our brain is complex so therefore it must have been created.

.........
Actually that people argue over any Gods casts substantial doubt over his existence. If 2 billion people starts arguing over Zeus, it doesn't mean Zeus exist.

Our brain is indeed complex. But it is work of nature. Same way you won't say something beautiful in nature was created, you cannot say our organic brain was created.

Note- by nature creating, I mean the work of wind, rain weathering all those nature processes.

On a totally unrelated note, you should visit my school zoo. The lions may not have your intelligence but you surely cannot dominate it. You do not have the strength (so therefore, the lion was physically advantaged by God to dominate you!) False.

And I don't want to meet you.




My Quranic knowledge In practice is as strong as yours.
I may not speak any arabic but I know enough to leave.

I will endeavour once I'm set, to free ALL my family. I don't care WHAT it will cost. You hear me?

Yo yan yin lenu.

And who said Zap


I said FU/CK

MacDaddy01: tribalist as well?

I laff

He wants to play the role of the elder that resolves conflicts. Too bad. He's not needed.

@Sweetnecta
I NEVER said the proper recommended last words is Allahu Akbar. Even worse, my Grandmother may be in hell because she didn't utter the correct words at the most scary moment of her life.
Zap Allah for that. I regret nothing. No more insha Allah. No more bismilahi ramoni rahim before eating, No more Alhamdullilahi.
no more nightly recitations of surahs. No more anything Islamic. I m far gone , you see.

This morning, I really felt to tone it down but with people like you, we are just beginning.

I regret Nothing I said.

Does God exist?
If yes, why?
If no, why?

Remember, no quotations. Just sheer logic AND if you like science.

@Wie.

I knew long ago hitler and Ghandi have some things in common. Ghandi recognised it sef. But I think I'm very far from both. I dunno. I don't wanna be like both anyway. One too extreme, the other, way too gentle. I like to be decisive.
Anyway, if that's what it will take...... I m going Ghandi

@fellis
Points Noted.

You are harmless. Your evils are not evil at all.
I'm sort of happy.

And what the hell are both of you talking about? You don't like tea Ginger, coffee nko?

I prefer tea sha as long as its made for me. Or in a place with hot water dispenser.

mkmyers45: Which one are you reading? The unknown life of Jesus Christ and the Secret Teachings of All Ages

Collectanea chemica.
Others, jus lil bit.
I don't have a lot of time. The books I have to go thru sef.


I'm taking them slowly. No rush.

Sweetnecta: @Avicenna: Tell me, is there any life preservation of self or humanity avoiding excessive abuse from evildoer or abuser in "Turning the other cheek"?

You are a yoruba man, give me the meaning of Avicenna in Ede ibile, if you are smart.

Give me the English word that will mean exactly any of these yoruba words: Oduduwa, Bajulaye, Itaganran, Ojude oba, Kaiyesi, Ikubabayeye, Gbangba, Ojuolomooto, Idiileke, etc. Choose any authentic Yoruba word and give me the full expression in English and let the yorubas on Nairaland critique it to see if omo yoruba gangan nie to mo oro ibile.

If you have "Epic fail" {good morning mr mcdadday01 who will be lost in the make of yoruba maze i put his atheist comrade in] in this imagine how it is a greater epic fail it is to do justice to The Word of Allah in Arabic when He did not reveal it in English.


So all your being an imam, you do not know that the arabs have to study Quranic arabic? I am going to sing Ojuelega of Fela. Can you tell me what Ojuelegba is in English?

This mallam na funny dude

First, you said I was never a muslim. OK
Now, I'm not a Yoruba!
I don't even exist sef. Whatever.

I don't know what you mean by turning the other cheek. That's not my philosophy. Na U sabi.

I particurlarly had a good laugh at ikubabayeye. Na so you fear death?

E mon nkan to shele? Mi o raye eyi. Nkan to ba wu yin ni ke so.

Faith-Igbagbo.(Belief). Idiileke,hahahahahah.