₦airaland Forum

mkmyers45: Was he modest or didnt know the law? I think that the man shoulders some level of blame anyway..

If I decided to go out and insult some people and I got beaten up then I am to be blamed. I provoked them, they will be treated with leniency in a court of law. But I do not have enough blame to be sent to 2+ f.ucking years in prison!

fellis: The laws of the land prohibit it. This isn't about fair or unfair.
In France, regardless of how much they want to, Jewish boys can't wear their Yamulkas to school and Muslim girls can't wear their hijabs.
Is it fair?

I think being jailed for blasphemy is about fairness. It is unfair.
France had solid reasons for doing that. They are making things equal for all people. No Islamic country will tolerate that. Respecting people's opinion indeed.
You asking whether the hijab's prohibition is fair is like saying students not wearing their Uniform to school and being sent back is unfair.

mkmyers45: even if he gets away he needs to be taught things like respecting people's opinion..

Why didn't they respect his opinion? They jailed him for his opinion!
If they have a problem with it, they should ignore it. He posted links to drawings of Prophet Muhammad. So what! Did he draw and publish them? Did he go to a mosque and disrupt the prayers with his opinions?

Some laws are inherently immoral and unjust.

fellis: No, why will I do that?
Besides that has nothing to do with the topic. I am sure there are laws in Indonesia that forbid people from doing things like what Alexander Aan did,but he went ahead and broke those laws.
If he knew he could not live without making fun of Muslims, then he should have moved to a country where such isn't forbidden to do it.

You will do it because I offended you. That's cruel. You think he deserved to be jailed for infidel post on facebook. I think you may even agree with fatwa

Is it just to you to be jailed for your beliefs or lack of? Cos if Japan start jailing all muslims,we know the suicide bombers that will demolish the place.

He should have moved from his homeland because he did not believe in God? This mentality of abandoning your country is a big problem in Nigeria. It is why looters stash their money overseas. It is why successful Nigerians in diaspora do not want to invest large scale in his own country.
If its that easy to leave your country for a better one, most Nigerians will be European citizens by now.

Why don't we make this place the best place? Nelson Mandela thought so. He suffered the consequences. Is the suffering justified? Mind you, South Africa had apartheid laws.(insert blasphemy laws of Indonesia)

Finally, I wonder why you don't move to Saudi Arabia with her sexist, draconian laws. Then, you will understand that freedom of speech,freedom of expression and so many freedoms you take for granted should be your inalienable rights anywhere.

fellis: What a troublesome man. I think he deserved getting jailed.
Some atheists think they are so far superior to theists that they can stomp on their emotions and abuse everything they hold sacred just because they don't believe that God exists.

So, fellis, if I say you are cruel, wicked person, you will send me to life imprisonment?

logicboy01: Yep, it is a sad thing. However, I think atheist groups are becoming more and more powerful. They will help the young man.

I sincerely hope so.

Thank 'God' , he wasn't beheaded.

Ignorant people. Always doing 'God's work' for him. Their powerless God who can't do his own work.

This can happen in Nigeria. David Mark may just wake up and criminalize atheism. 'It is against my christian faith' is the justification. All the muslims will fall in line.
Reason and logic is endangered.

cyrexx: @ avicenna

so how do you cope,
i hope you will be careful to prevent your people from knowing that you dont believe their fairy tales anymore.
i hear that Islam is not tolerant to its apostates
all the best

cheers

Ha,Mr cyrexx, how have you been?

I v been coping. I no longer attend group prayers. Give them excuses. I want to pray alone.
It just seems perpetually ridiculous and absurd when I see intelligent adults swallowing fairytales without any doubt. Its not as easy as I thought it will be.
It is true that Islam,putting it mildly, does not tolerate apostasy. Forget 'there is no compulsion in religion'. Na so dem go tell u b4 u convert,convert finish, try commot frm dat religion, see wetin go happen to u.

joe4christ: [size=15pt] To all the atheist in here, you just answer the OP's questions and stop derailing the thread cos it seems that's what you know how to do best each time you come across a mentally challenging questions which seems to debunk your widest idealogies and perception. [/size]

Debunk indeed!!
Now, go ahead and claim your God is a magician......in a circus.

ihustler: d word magic is exactly wat is on examination here or does it imply dat not all atheists r as smart as they usually want people to believe!

Whatever.
Magic TRICKS are ofcourse possible.
I know one Alfa whose magic is to deceive people with dubious predictions.
I know one whose specialty is for curse. He can curse you eh. Funny thing, he will mix up the curses, cover all grounds. Sooner or later, one of them will catch you
Jokes apart. Supernatural magics are fairytales. If someone cast a spell on you and it starts working immediately, he has drugged you before. Trust me, I know.

PS- drop the condescension.

Religionists will still bring up such illogical argument after reading this. They reason if they should prove, then we should prove that they have no proof. WTF??

logicboy01:

Apostacy is not easy.

At all.
I watched a video of them slaughtering someone a while ago. They still manage to justify that in the Modafucking Quran.
I v got something I'm planning. I will start here soon.

You know,
If I met Prophet Muhammad, I will diagnose him of schizophrenia and a host of mental conditions.

It seems to me that humans prefer things gotten through hard and cruel conditions. Because I see no reason why some humans will willingly fast. I see no reason why you have to go through repetitive,time-consuming,non-productive motions of prayer.(Salat). Islam is a tough religion. They take advantage of that feeling of reward after a hard work.( Games like World of warcraft do that too. ) So, it is absolutely unthinkable to my Mom that all her arduous early morning(rain or harmattan,midnight)prayers are pointless. That Saudi Arabia fleeced her of money under a dubious hajj. Hajj is simply revenue from tourism. Muslims are the hardest believers. They cannot simply grasp all their 'hardwork' in worshipping a non existent God is futile.

I intend to maximize the shock when I out myself. The only thing stopping me is I do not want to kill my mother. She will figure it out herself. When that happens, the shock I will unleash on my religious colleagues......
Hope they reason properly......if they do not manage to slaughter me!

The effect of a religious leader abandoning his faith is far reaching. I will not be surprised if some people deconverts along with him.

LOGICAL WAYS point to your God's non-existence.
But logical fallacies I can humbly give you.
Do you want them?

kkk17: These people who call themselves atheists are they for real? Be still and Know that He is God!!! Science can only go so far. Jehovah, the Holy one of Isreal is real. This world is certainly by no accident

That's it?

Master_1: www.cogitz.com/2009/09/10/incorruptible-corpses/


I expect religionists to start laying claims nd atheists nd agnostics to start providing logical answers by dis tym.

Surprised!

I was expecting one of them religionists to post something ignorant. They didn't .


Sorry!

ZUBY77: I feel you bro, i just wanted to show them how hypocritical they all are.
@avicena... Yep, money and power is all you need... You can agree with me that even Pope pays attention to bill gates more than you.

Hahahahaha
Yeah, the baztard really does.

ZUBY77: My case is different. I usually start telling them my stand instantly. The whole of my neighbourhood in Onitsha now know that i am an atheist. I have been arguing with them for months since i returned from Europe. I usually throw questions that they cannot answer. Sometimes, they come up with the old doctrine questions of ; who made you: and so on. I have personally converted many of them but not wthout a prize. I took three guys with me down to Enugu on a weekend trip. I used my BMW X5 which is spacious and neat. I paid for the petrol alone, paid for their hotel bills for two niights, took them to nice joints and gave them ladies all on my own.
Now after spending like 100K for this guys, they had no option than to listen to me. I made them understand that TB Joshua is a scammer who exploits their ignorance. I told them that to become a free thinker like me, they have to start questioning everything including God himself. Last week, a church in my are were making noise and disturbing the entire area throughout the nights. I callled on my three guys and they all agreed that they couldnt sleep cos of the noises. Now i suggested that we go into the church to make our case known, they agreed reluctantly but refused to enter the compound. I went in, called the pastor out and explained to him that they will have to send their speakers inside or i will destroy them . Now the speakers are no longer there and the entire neighbourhood are proud of me, their new fearless hero who is daring god and religion.

Now i have over 100 followers in my area alone. they show up in droves every evening to listen to my sermon. They are no longer afraid of Jesus and moses and elijah etc. They now believe that bible was written by man. They now understand that the only reason why they even go to church was because they were threatened with eternal hell fire....

Imagine that one of the, even suggested that i rent a warehouse where people will be coming to know the truth.
All in all, bring them closer, show them love and tell them the truth. Most of them are just scared of hell fire.

I even asked them what they think they will do in heaven if they get there?
A world without, sex, alcohol, parties, nada.... Only singing and praying... Why would any sane person wanna go there?

So, it is true that one must acquire power/money/greatness to reach them.
Your approach is awesome
Just be careful before they start forming another religion around you.

dorox: I do get along very well with my atheist simblings and my mum even when i don't agree with their views i can see why it can appear very reasonable. I have my reasons for believing in God which i have explained to my brothers but i won't be able to repeat them here because i am afraid that my writing skill will be inadequate to express the complexity of my argument.

Okay.

Area_boy: lol.. i dont wana be in your shoes!

I like the way you say "managing to hold on".

@OP.. well, In Nigeria and many other places (parts of Texas included) you may become an outcast or even stoned for expressing your disbelieve in their "all powerful" God that knows the beginning and end. That has planned everything from start to finish but still somehow wants you to pray and ask for things and "sow" seeds to get something he already planned for you?. makes no sense! did i mention he never changes too?

Sorry i got carried away there. what i'm trying to say is avoid engaging them in situations like those. I just sit and listen and might learn a thing or two why they think that way. Not worth it. hope they use there senses and ask crucial questions rather than blind belief. sad

Okay, thanks. I wanna make them use their senses.

ea7: I've been outed at my school. Though no one makes a big deal of it, only my friends in BS society, bible study society or as I call it bullsh*t society. I managed to get some people to my side/deconvert some people. One of the B.S guys just debated with me on facebook this week, he eventually ran away. My advice is...go one on one with people, if in groups you might be ridiculed and they just affirm each others beliefs anyway.

Do you school in Nigeria?
I see. The people you deconverted were really educated. It may be possible afterall.

dorox: My sister and two of my brothers are atheist, my mum is an agnostic while two of my other sisters are strong christians with me just managing to hold on to the faith. I was formerly an agnostic

How do you manage?

dorox: My sister and two of my brothers are atheist, my mum is an agnostic while two of my other sisters are strong christians with me just managing to hold on to the faith. I was formerly an agnostic

harakiri: At first, i used to be confrontational when religious folks try to make an issue out of my non-belief in religion. Now, i just give them a bored look and regard them as cows!!! (no offense). Rather than arguing with the sheeple, it's best to use your life as an example for them. Mind you, they will always be wishing for one calamity or the other to befall you so that they can gloat and say "YES! god don catch am!".

Arguing with someone who has been brainwashed from childhood is pointless. Bantering with someone who is irredeemably biased towards anything other than what he/she has been taught is a waste of time. Atheism unlike religion doesn't seek converts. You are either born into a non-religious society or you drop religion based on your doubts in it's credibility. These are simple facts that appear hard rocks for religious sheeple to swallow. Their brains can't comprehend how a human being can survive this harsh world without believing in something supenatural.

Nuff said!

Use your life as an example. Very true.
So, it is impossible that Nigerians will drop religion or the concept of a personal God any time soon. It will be safer to ignore arguing with them because they will do anything to show you that their powerless God exists. Even causing you calamities in the name of their God.

2good: I have been an unbeliever for the past 16 years and lived most of my adult life experience with insult from everybody around me because of my believes. It is practically almost impossible for people to change. Even well educated Nigerians in top university globally still reason daft when it comes to religious matter. It is like a way of life to them and its almost impossible to convince them and make them sea reason in what you are saying. Only people that are ready to query the system by asking pertinent questions and reason objectively can be de-converted from their delusion.
Also another major problem is that children are not allowed to go against elders or query the authority of elders even when they are saying nonsense and the consequence of all that is the backwardness we experience today in Nigeria and Africa at large.

But how can I make them ready to query the system? Any ideas? I know it is almost impossible. Thanks.

thehomer: One thing you could try is just to pick one person that you feel is closest to you in some way maybe in age or educational degree and try to have a conversation with them by asking them pertinent questions on questionable issues such as God crashing the bus. You could begin by wondering why God who is good would want to crash this bus with so many people who have families. You could also point out that the bus and vehicle accidents in general are human caused or machine caused and that this is why people get sued for accidents in courts etc.
What I mean in effect is that you just try to settle on having a conversation with one person and others may join in. If you're asked a question on God and all that but you do now wish to identify yourself as an atheist, you could simply say that your own personal belief in God is different from theirs.

Great.
The similarity between the advice is that I should engage them one on one , never in groups. Okay.

logicboy: It is very good that you started this thread. I am also learning things.

I do not mean to be rude but I think you should also be on the Islam section on Nairaland where you can convince more people about the truth concerning religion. As an atheist with a christian background, my arguments can always be misconstrued as islamophobia. However, you have the Islamic background to challenge things.

I see some of your threads. Once they are moved into the islam section, it is brutally killed. Not because of it is not true or thought-provoking but because they are a vicious group there.
One more thing. Going through the threads, they are within realm of Islam. Even if I don't agree with them and point out sheer evil in most verses, they will simply claim IT IS ISLAM. Live with it. They really succeeded in building a fortress.
But it seems I will have to dust my Quran again. To debunk that violent religion.

cyrexx: that is the annoying thing about religion. Everything is always attributed to the supernatural and therefore man cannot do anything about it but hope that god will make things better. This line of thinking puts a brake on any attempt to make things better and thus development is hindered. E.g. The airline operators will not be put to task to ensure better security etc etc (as a side note, many people including religionists do not realise that they have a more loving heart than their most beneficient imaginary god and will do a better job than him if they are granted omnipotence and omniscience to run this world).

I support dorox in the sense that engaging them one on one will be more fruitful as there wont be any compulsion to conform to majority views of the public. But its sad to acknowledge that rational liberal thinking is a minority in nigeria. Even dorox will be crucified by fellow hardliner christians for not believing that god sends people to burn alive in hell forever. I suggest you engage people one on one. What i personally observed is that many people and even some religious leaders are secretly atheists/agnostic/liberal thinkers but will not come out of the closet until they encounter someone with the same belief system. Its a matter of time. England too was very superstitious before they rose up. Nigeria is coming up gradually. Many people will start coming out of their closet gradually...

Just like you said, I will also follow Dorox advice.
I hope we will get there. I don't want to be like religionists. Because if we don't do it, it will not happen. Instead of waiting for some useless entity to take control.

dorox: I agree with you concerning the fact that not everybody you can reason with but even among those with some extremely whacky views a few can still be reached.

True.
But some of them will respond with violence if it specifically concern religion. It will be insults and abuse over other matters. I don't mind defending myself but the aim will be defeated.
Another comment ' women should not go to school. By 14 or 16, they should be in their husbands house. they are the cause of our problems. They wear mini skirts, they put on make up, they no longer listen to adults. For THIS reason God is angry with Nigeria and he's punishing us'. Such bigotry is beyond me.

dorox: My apologies for a thoughtless advice, sometimes i just forget how rigid islam is. You should avoid engaging more than one person at a time, with one person the discussion is more focused and the individual is not bothered about how he/she is perceived by others and is forced to think with the absence of group knowledge, above all i think it will be safer for you in case the person is unreceptive compared to an unreptive group of people on a bus.

Abeg oo, it is not bad advice.

Engage one person at a time alone. True.
But that driver should not be engaged until power/greatness is acquired. He is a fanatic or seemed to be.
They are strangers. It will be easy to get away without my identity being revealed.
Thank you.

logicboy: Agreed
That is it. You either say what they want to hear (Islam is the greatest thing since sliced yam) or you berra get the power to influence them. Logical arguments only works with people who understand logic in the first place.

I see.
Power to influence them. This is true.
I have stopped saying anything about Islam. See, when I am asked to give a lecture in class for muslim students, I usually spun tall tales(that I was told about). They swallow the bullsh.it ,ALL of it. Agreeing with them will only lead to a greater reinforcement of their religious views.