₦airaland Forum

DawnEden:
Ok, what of if I decided to pay let say 10000 monthly into the mmf, how will the dividend be calculated every 3 months. Anybody in the house?

Let me use 12% because it's more straight forward, and still close to what most funds return.
You start with 100,000 and add 10,000 monthly,

Your first income would be 1,000 and it'll rise by 100 every month.

Gavrelino123:
Thanks.....but how's the interest calculated..?using 10m for example at an interest rate of 15%.
what are the taxes like compared to TB.?

T- bills and bonds are tax free till 2021. Hopefully, the waiver will get extended beyond then.

spenca:
These banks put a limit to the principal they take for bonds due to the longtivity of the asset. They try to avoid traders buying the instrument rather than investors. If you want to purchase the FGN bonds you may approach a house to buy from the secondary market for you if you do not meet the criteria of your commercial bank. Bonds are traded daily and sometimes you may get investors willing to share part of their bonds which may match the principal which you intend to invest. The beauty of bond is the steady stream of inflow quarterly or bi-annually which can be further invested in other assets T-bills or equities.
Download the form from DMO and take it to your commercial bank. It is best you emphasized it is FGN BONDS and not FGN SAVINGS BONDS these are two different instruments

Thank you for this.

As per bank thresholds, do you have any specific examples?
For other investment houses, do you have an idea of what their own threshold is too?

francdec4:
Is it better than the balance funds or fbn smart beta and other equities? Just asking to have an idea.

From Feb 1 to date, I don't think there's any equity fund in Nigeria that has returned half as much as the average MMF. As a matter of fact, most are trading at losses from their Jan end prices.

balanced funds are often a mix of bonds and equities. so I expect their performance to lag MMF still.

For bond funds, I am expecting them to have better performance than MMFs.

These are my views.

ImperialCovfefe:
I haven’t subscribed to one. I was interested and tried sourcing for information from the publicly available statements/reports/prospectuses

I see.
I'll try make some findings though. There should be a way around this bond trading.

I wish other knowledgeable members here would give some insights on how retail investors can also board this vehicle.

ImperialCovfefe:
Bond funds are opaque. Their annual and quarterly statements rarely give you information about the yearly coupon/distribution/dividend. They keep peddling their change in NAV.

Same practice with all fund managers?

ImperialCovfefe:
With the introduction of the savings bond (March 2017), the minimum amount for the regular FGN bonds (not the ones geared towards the retail market, like the sukuk) was reviewed upwards to 50m

To make things worse, discount houses like FSDH wouldn't even let you open an account if you're with less than 50m.

Maybe bond funds would be worth taking a look at now. There should be ones with 13-15% yields currently.

ernie4life:
House check out secondary market treasury bills rate below as at today and compare it with mmf rates, you will see mmf is still better

Kudos to you for dropping this. Kudos to our fund managers too for yet delivering yields above T-bills. MMFs are the best money market vehicles currently. Glad I'm in.

Seun:
Well, it seems to be a hypothesis which a lot of lay people find attractive, but it has not been accepted by evolutionary biologists because the evidence for it is very weak.

And you think that of your chimpanzee ancestors is any better. After death, there are no more atheists. your eyes'll will become clear to the obvious realities you're choosing to ignore now.

Seun:
I feel that the whole God’s God thing was a waste of the brilliant animators time. A rabbit hole that leads nowhere. I like the stuff that’s more grounded in reality or the actual beliefs of the people we are trying to liberate.

If you only knew better, you'd see that your "people we're trying to liberate" statement is the equivalent of a convicted prisoner saying about a judge "i'll try to set him free"

Only utter ignorance would warrant such silly thoughts.

Chibuking81:
Their 2018 q1 EPS is 160 kobo, against 2017 120 kobo EPS.
Their 2017 FY EPS stood at 202 kobo upon their q1 120 kobo EPS.

in summary, they make their money in Q1.
They should not be compared with Zenith that has close to 600 kobo FY EPS.

Looking closely at the figures, it doesn't seem like any income is concentrated in Q1, rather, the Q1 appears annualized.

Harddiskng:
I actually had to call their customer care to clarify, I still stand by my assertion “Paper redemption- 5 business days. Online redemption - 3 business days.”

If you seek clarification from them and they dispute this fact, I would rest my case with a proper apology, clear my money and look for somewhere with a promise of speedy & efficient service and also advise all my folks to do the same. I can still remember the name of the customer care staff that provided me with this information.

I have no vested interest apart from that of a customer, if something is not working right. It should voiced it out, so it can be fixed. When others are improving on their timelines, should they be any different

Certainly.

Harddiskng:
I was actually waiting for this are you a staff, please fix-up your services.

Thank God for the ability to read, oya come lets read it together. (See screenshots).

5 days is for Paper redemption, you can call their customer service for verification. If you are staff, I am guessing you know this already.

NB: Never mistake an excuse with an explanation.

Bros, if you had been here long enough, you would know that Realityshot is only giving his appraisal a customer and not a staff.

Meanwhile the statement you highlighted in that snapshot doesn't say "online redemption gets processed within 3 days"
rather what it says is If you request to have access to online redemption, that request (to make your funds redeemable online) is processed within 3 days.

Meanwhile all my redemption requests have never exceeded 40hours.

ernie4life:
If you understand the mechanism on which rates are determined then you will be happy that rates are going down because it's good for our economy.

Does anyone know the performance of bond funds?
If we know maybe we could compare it with mmf, fixed income fund and equity funds to know if it's a better alternative

Thanks Reality shot.
This is the post I meant to quote in my previous post.

Ernie4life. How do we access the secondary market for corporate bonds. What's the threshold?
Do Individual members (Affiliates) have access to trade on the FMDQ floor?

eezeribe:
Lol... But not only that of SIBTC,all the other MMF's and treasury bills are all searching for oil Wells in the 'Niger Delta'

Personally, I'd yet praise the efforts of these fund managers.
it's not so easy to keep yields above 364day T-bills yields which was 11.98% at the last PMA.

On bonds, I think their yields are currently mostly in the 12-13% range. There are however corporate bonds on the FMDQ OTC with yields currently in the 17-19% range. I'd like for you to enlighten us more about how we can trade bond instruments on the FMDQ'S OTC exchange.

freeman67:
I am considering this investment one Vintage dollar fund after enough stress to open a dorm... However, afraid is catching me because of the recent Naira and Renminbi currency swap deal between Central Bank of Nigeria and People's Bank of China. I do not what the future holds... No clear picture of how it may affect the NGN/USB exchange rate in the nearest future.

Positively for the naira.

Reserves will hit 50bn before the end of this quarter,

Oil seems to have found comfort above $70 now, and output levels are great.

Dangote refinery will have a positive effect of about $500m monthly both in forex savings and earnings.

In the short to medium term (say 5 years) the naira is more likely to exchange for the dollar at below 300 than at above 400. At least that's what I pray to God, and I know He'll answer.

Seun:
This is a great way to express my position on the existence of God. Just change “my previous neighbour” to “religion”. There is no evidence for the existence of mermaids, and the people that claim to have seen them are liars or delusional.

From an evolutionary POV, without considering the lack of evidence, aquatic human beings are extremely unlikely to exist because we do not share the common ancestor that mammals in the sea (whales and dolphins) share. It is from this ancestor that they got most of the features that allow them to thrive in the sea, such as nostrils at the top of their heads, strong flippers and tails and for swimming with great speed and agility, the ability to hold their breaths for a very long time, their aerodynamic shape that reduces drag as they swim, the ability to give birth under water, the layer of fat that protects them from freezing in cold water, the ability to communicate under water, etc. Human beings cannot live in the sea just because they have tails. It takes far more than that. The biologically changes needed to make human beings seaworthy would make them unrecognizable as human beings, or extremely ugly.

Quick question: if mermaids are spirits, why do they usually have tails? They aren’t physically swimming in the water, right?

Your position on the existence of God is what's prideful, delusional and ridiculous.

For if there are countless number of folks who encounter Him on a daily basis, and you keep making baseless rants thinking you're smart, doesn't that make you ridiculous?

The guy who prayed for his dead sister and brought her back to
life after 12 days of death, go and rant endlessly to him, and see if you make any headway.

TLAX:
Who understands how the corporate bond market works in Nigeria? Is it open to only institutional investors? Is there a secondary market for these bonds? If so how liquid is the market? Any upcoming bond issuance or prospectus of a recently issued corporate bond?

I will appreciate some information folks. Thanks.

Check the FMDQ's site. Bonds not quoted on the NSE are mostly traded on the FMDQ's OTC exchange.

The link below has their daily quotation list. In it, you'll find all the bonds that currently trade on their floor- corporate bonds inclusive.

https://www.fmdqotc.com/services/market-information-data/fmdq-daily-quotations-list/

Results for today's PMA have been published: https://www.cbn.gov.ng/rates/govtsecurities.asp
discount rates at 10.0 10.5 and 10.7 respectively for the 3 tenors.
On the positive side though, oversubscriptions were mild.

.

Seun:
If Gods existed, and acted the way the holy books say, there would be no atheists. The video below makes the point very effectively:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLhkPTQvMzQ

Even the Bible that you think is fiction has records of atheists.

The fact is even if God should appear in the sky, you folks would still choose not to believe in his existence. You'd just regard him as some being, and also argue that there's no proof of Him being the only such being in space, and there's no proof that he authored creation.

How do I know this, well, since day in day out thousands of people experience the supernatural, yet the testimonies don't convince you, you're certainly lost and blinded beyond the fixing proofs can offer.

This past month, a woman was dead in Bayelsa for 12 days and had already been embalmed. Her brother prayed that she would rise back to life and she did -After 12 days!!!

If such a testimony doesn't convince you of the existence of God, certainly nothing else will. It then would seem that you're bounded by an oath to never believe in God no matter how convincing the evidence is that you're presented with.

Anyways, sha know hell is real, and it's a torment that'll last for more than a billion trillion years.

Love you sir, but God certainly does much more.

Seun:
What kind of hurt are you saying the righteous cannot experience? We all know that Christians can be physically and emotionally hurt. Even the Jesus of Mark was emotionally hurt when he faced crucifiction. He cried with a loud voice “My God, why have you forsaken me?”

Jesus' cry was not cos of the crucifixion. A proof of that is in the fact that all his talks about his death with his disciples conveyed glad anticipation on his part. He never talked about his death sadly. So it couldn't have been the death that got to him.

It was the fact that He would be made SIN, and consequently suffer a momentary separation from God that hurt him.

Seun:
What about the millions of Christians who died as a result of their problems? If your situation leads to death, that means you did not recover.

He apparently wasn't referring to those "Christians" who die from situations, rather he talked about the likes of us who are guaranteed utter, perfect, and perpetual safety from all of life's troubles-Those of us who live in the manifestation of the scripture "a thousand may fall at your left, ten thousand at your right hand side, but none reaches to you"

spenca:
this is not really a liquid instrument. Itis best for someone who wants to put their cash away for a while , rates for the last savings bond was in the environment of 10-11% coupon as well

It's actually trades on the exchange daily, so if there'll be buyers, liquidating'll be easy.

rationalmind:
Very bad o considering where we were coming from.

Besides, you could have gotten the same rate on FD depending on the amount you're investing.

4% discount is part of where where coming from. This time 2016, rates were lower.
FD rates should have been reviewed downwards. They don't make such delays.

Osahon7:
Please this reduced rates of TB, is there any hope of it coming back to normal soon?

This is the real normal. 18% was windfall.

katamo:
Dipo, I just realized that you are the author of these articles. I find them very informative. More grease!

Our Forum is blessed with a lot of resourceful persons- a lot.

zamirikpo:
Yello guyz....awesomej......alikote......and all. I greet u righteously.
In as much as we want the best from our investments , we should be careful on how ambitious we get. Buying bonds or other money instruments from other countries could be counter productive .........apart from currency fluctuations , procedures and strategy must be thoroughly thought out.

For me, I have quietly applied to reinvest tomorrow, hopefully I'll get at least 13%. As the rates are dropping I will either be content with whatever little returns I can get on TB or I think of a SAFE means of investing. Remember guyz it our LIFE SAVINGS.

Don't mind us. It's the "sweetness" of the 18% days we're missing. Caution remains the watchword.

However, we can still try finding out all we can about offshore investments. Even if it's just for the knowledge.

Like you said, we will be very careful.

Seun:
His army killed every woman, child, slave and livestock in Jericho, a city that never attacked them, according to Joshua 6. They didn’t spare the babies and pregnant women, but they spared a traitor and her family.

First, Genocide is defined as killing ON THE BASIS OF ETHNICITY, RELIGION, SOCIAL STATUS, POLITICAL BELIEFS or other peculiarities.
The killings in Joshua 6, were not based on any such peculiarities, and so it's wrong to describe them as genocide.

There were two forms of killings permitted by God in the Bible:
1. Killings at war.
2. Killing as execution of judgement.

Outside of any religious influence, these forms of killings are still accepted by the society of today. Every nation maintains a robust military, and nobody condemns any death judgement that the law metes on criminals.

The killings in the account of Joshua 6 were an execution of judgement. They were in the same category as those by King Saul on the Amalekites, the destruction of Sodom, the flood in Noah's days, and the eternal damnation that awaits the sinners of this current generation. The pattern is the same. When sins reach their full measure, they get punished.

In Gen 15, God was telling Abraham of the time when his descendants would possess the land of Canaan, in verse 16, he said: " In the fourth generation, they will return here, FOR THE INIQUITY OF THE AMORITES HAS NOT YET REACHED ITS FULL MEASURE" -HCSB.

So, obviously, the dispossession of those folks in Jericho and Cannan was basically a punishment for their sins which at that time, were full to overflowing.

Some of the sins committed by the Amorites are listed in Lev 20.
Verse 22 of that chapter reads: "You shall therefore keep all my statutes and all my ordinances and do them, that the land where I am bringing you may not VOMIT YOU OUT [AS IT DID THOSE BEFORE YOU] - AMP.

This shows that God's justice system is fair and standard, as it's clearly stated that should the Israelites have piled up sins to the magnitude of the Amorites, they would have as well been dispossessed from that same land.

Actually, they got exiled from the land for 70years due to their sin, which certainly was of a leaner magnitude at the time.


So Joshua never committed genocide, he only received instruction from a land owner to eliminate folks that turned out filthy at the time. If some batch of IPhone 8 turn out bad, Apple could recall them, and instruct a robot to crush them. You wouldn't condemn the robot, neither would you Apple, it'd be those bad phones that'd be condemnable.

BENARI:
Many thank to you Sir.

I'll sure share the outcome of whatever finds I make.

Great efforts on your part sir. Well appreciated.

I will make some efforts on my part too. Any available gimmicks for improved returns.

God bless you.

haibe:
Do you mean the rates obtained in the secondary market will be fixed for the different tenors? Since the primary market rates could vary depend on negotiations, I thought this should mean that the secondary market rates would also vary depending on the rate the seller obtained it from the primary market. Correct me pls

When you're buying from the primary market auction, at the time you're giving your instruction, or placing your bid, you don't know yet, the rate you will get. You have to wait for the outcome of the auction.

For the secondary market, the bank makes you offers of available rates and tenors, that way you know what rate you're getting right before you buy the bills.

Think of it this way:

You told a friend to get you a phone, and you give him #100,000 cos you think that should be the range. However you wouldn't know the actual cost of the phone until he returns from the store. That's primary market.

On the other hand, your friend could be selling you a phone which he has already bought from the store, brand new albeit. In this case, you will know the cost right before you give him your money. That's secondary market.

However, like you said, the rates obtainable in the secondary market depend largely on what the seller got from the primary market.

Ifelove1:
Wow.... Thanks.
Please I don't understand what you mean by I won't be bidding tomorrow. Do you mean if I go tomorrow, I will still need to go on Wednesday? Can you please send more light on the issue?

What I mean is:
When you go the bank tomorrow, you won't have to bid as you will be buying from the secondary market. Bids only happen at the primary market auctions, the next of which is scheduled for this week's Wednesday.

Except, what you meant in your original post is that you're going to place a bid/an instruction tomorrow for the upcoming Wednesday auction.

If that's the case, then kindly forgive my taking your post out of context. It must have been that phrase " to buy T-bills tomorrow"

BENARI:
How about we do some more research on this. From my findings, the best rates for money instruments are found mostly in Africa.

Other than TB, We can look at bonds as well. Most Bonds are denominated in Dollar and Euro. That is usually open to foreigners I want to believe. The bonds offer one very important advantage; it's shielded from domestic currency fluctuations. The disadvantage though is that the rates are lower. In Nigeria for example, the eurobond is around 7 to 8%, almost have the TB rate. During times of currency fluctuation however, it is a safer choice given that currencies in Africa tend to rally negatively against western currencies.

So let the research begin and let's see what we can come up with.

I totally agree with every suggestion/point you've made.

We should research more on investment vehicles available across Africa.
Eurobonds are great hedges against currency fluctuations.
I don't really think anyone should keep idle funds in their dorm accounts, when those funds could be earning. The FMDQ provides secondary market for some of those bonds too, making it possible to terminate prematurely if you want. I however don't know what the investment threshold is.

Like I said, I appreciate every point you've made. Thank you.