₦airaland Forum

Praises are due to Allah (SWT), the Truth He sent Muhammed (saw) with the truth and as the last messenger of truth to warn humanity about these unpalatable situations. There is no aspect of it he has not foretold and forewarned. All have become passing phenomena. They have appeared and are still appearing like the bright light of the day. Thus, it behoves every man to desist from spelling doom on himself. Failure to take heed will only bring more tribulations and afflictions. Rightly and accurately, the Prophet (saw) has foretold that:

Among the signs of the Hour will be the disappearance of knowledge and the appearance of ignorance. Adultery will become prevalent and drinking of wine will be common. The number of men will be outnumbered by that of women. Do know that if fornication should become widespread, you should know realize that this has never happened without new diseases befalling the people, which their predecessors never suffered. If the people should begin to cheat in weighing out goods, you should realize that this has never happened without drought and famine befalling the people, and their rulers oppressing them. If people should withold Zakat, you should realize that this has never happened without the rain being stopped from falling; and were it not for the sake of animals, it would never have rained again. If people should break their covenant with Allah and His messenger, you should realize that this has never happened without Allah sending an enemy against them to take some of their possessions by force. If the leaders do not govern according to the Book of Allah, you should realize that this has never happened without Allah making them fall into groups and fight one another.

THE HOUR WILL ALSO NOT COME until when leaders become oppressors, when people believe in the stars and reject al-Qadar (the divine decree of destiny), when a trust becomes a way of making a profit, when people give charity reluctantly, whn this happens, then people will persih. Gains wil be shared out only amongst the rich with no benefit to the poor. A trust will become the means of making a profit. Paying Zakah will become a burden. A man will  obey his wife whilst shunning his father. Voices will be raised in the mosques. The leader of a people will be the worst of them. People will treat a man with respect because they fear some evil he may do. Men will wear silk. Female singers and musical instruments will become popular.

THE HOUR WILL NOT COME  until when some people emerge to lead others on a path differnt from that of Prophet Muhammed (saw). Some will be standing and calling at the gate of hell, whoever responds to their call, they will throw him into the fire. Alas! Islam began as something stange, and it will revert to being strange as it was in the beginning, so good tidings to those who break away from their people for the sake of Islam.

JUST BEFORE THE HOUR, Islam will become worn out as clothes are, until there will be no one who knows what fasting, prayer, charity and rituals are. The Quran will disappear in one night, and no verse will be left on earth. Some groups of old people will be left who will say, we heard our fathers saying Laa Ilaha Ila Allah, so we repeat it.

JUST BEFORE THE END OF THE WORLD, time will pass rapidly. Knowledge will decrease. Miserliness will become widespread in people' hearts. Afflictions will appear, and there will be much killings. Sleep will overtake man, during which honesty will be taken away from his heart, and only its traces will remain, like traces of a dark spot. Then man will be overtaken by slumber again, during which honesty will decrease further, until its traces will resemble a blister such as is caused when an ember is dropped unto one’s foot it swells, but there is nothing inside. People will be carrying on with their trade, but there will hardly be any trustworthy persons. People will say, there is a honest man in such and such tribe. Later they will say about a man, what a wise, polite and strong man he is! Whereas, his faith will not even be up to the size of a mustard-seed in his heart.

JUST BEFORE THE HOUR, people will go out under the wrath of Allah and come back under his curse. People will stop enjoining good and forbidding evil. Fornication will be widespread amongst the leaders, knowledge will be in the hands of the lowest. Power will pass into the hands of the most degenerate.

JUST BEFORE THE HOUR, a man will wake up as a believer, and be an unbeliever by nightfall. People will sell their religion for a small amount of worldly good. The one who clings to his religion on that day will be as one who is grasping an ember or thorn.

JUST BEFORE THE HOUR, nations will call one another to invade the Muslims’lands as people call one another to come and eat from one bowl, for the Muslims will have fervent love for this world and dislike fighting (in the cause of Allah). It is a time when a man will not trust the person he is speaking to. The world will mot pass away until the one who enjoys it the most is the depraved son of the depraved. There will  be years of deceit, n which a truthful person will be disbelieved; and the insignificant will have a say.

THE HOUR WILL NOT COME TO PASS until knowledge is acquired and contempt shown for religion. The ignorant worshippers will be in multitudes. The ignorant ones  will mount the minbar to deliver sermons. The Ulamaa’ will seek knowledge to attract financial gains. The true and very learned ones will be rare and would not be followed. Knowledge will be obtained from those who use their discretion.

THE HOUR WILL NOT HAPPEN until people start boasting of building mosques. The mosques will become grounds for pursuing and discussing worldly affairs. It will be highly adorned like churches. A man will pass by it but will fail to pray therein. there will appear men who will come to its door on their riding object with their wives naked and their heads made high like that of the tilted camel hump, this set of people are cursed. Profligates will lead every market. There will be many leaders but few trustworthy ones. People will swear allegiance to a man who is not, in any way, fit to rule and lead. People will assume power by inheritance. There will emerge leaders and ministers who will be terrible and experts in lying. There will be many worshippers but few jurists. People will prefer to nurse puppies to children upbringing. The considerate shall become the vilest. A person will pass by a grave and, due to tribulations, will say. “how I wish I am the one in this grave”.

A TIME WILL COME  unto men when a true believer will be so rare amongst them. There will be time contraction whence a year will be like a month, a month like a week, a week like a day, a day like an hour, and an hour like the kindling of a fire. There will be outward prosperity with internal troubles and dissensions just as dirt troubles the eye from within though nothing is seen from outside. A tribe from the Muslims will join the polytheists and worship idols. There will be continual earthquakes. Falsehood and calumny will spread. Men will wear the garments of sheep[ but with hearts of wolf, their similitude is like that of a hypocrite. It is such a terrible time that the murderer will not know why he has committed the murder and the victim will not know why he has been killed.

THE LAST DAY will not come until the dreams of a believer will not be falsified. The righteous people will depart one after the other while the useless ones will remain like the husk of barley or dates.

JUST BEFORE THE HOUR, there will emerge those who will read the Quran and still transgress. It will be made bare while copies are produced and adorned in letters of gold it will be read in ecstatic melody but will not be acted upon. There will emerge those who will testify without being asked to do so. People will embezzle and fail to keep trust. Vows will be made but not fulfilled. People will cut family ties. They will bear false witness and conceal the truth. The old (elderly) will not be respected while the young will not be shown mercy. There will be myriads of bastards. There will emerge those who will walk barefooted. There will be naked and nude women who will be clad, yet naked, they will have their hairs styled like the titled humps of camels. The destitute will compete in the building of high mansions.

JUST BEFOPRE THE HOUR, there will be decrease in the life span of men. A criminal will be acquitted while the innocent is accused. A liar will be believed while the truthful is belied. People will follow self-desires and judge by suspicion. Men will have anal cohabitation with their wives. Homosexuality and lesbianism will be the order of the day. Negotiations of peace shall be based on hypocrisy and mistrust. A group will emerge to make intoxicants lawful by giving it other names.

THE LAST HOUR WILL NOT COME until business spread to the extent that a woman will appoint her husband to oversee it for her. Bribery will engulf everywhere. Inheritance will no longer be divided and shared. People will become fraudulent in scale and measurement. They will devour usury and call it trade

The minor Signs

These signify serious and negative reverse in virtues and the real nature of man. They portend that period when man will tread the path of disbelief and transgression. It is a period when materialism will dominate the life of man. He will live in total spiritual darkness. He will constantly and knowingly stain his soul with sins and use parts of his body to perpetrate and perpetuate what is prohibited. His brain will think evil, his eyes will look at evils without restraint, his nose will inhale insul frangrancem his mouth will speak and consume evil, his hands will touch and amass the unlawful and his legs will traverse the evil ways. In short, his thoughts, utterances and eeds will be odious, ominous and terrible. These signs are regarded as minor because their occurence will not immediately bring about the Last Hour. They will lead and land man in suffering of no small measure. The social fabric of the society will disintgrate. The humanity of man will become animality. Callousness and oppression will become easier than kindness and clemency. There will be cries and woes in the lands.

Quran 75v1-6: I do call to witness the Day of Resurrection; and I do call to witness the self-reproaching soul; does man think that we cannot assemble his bones? Nay, we are able to put together in perfect order, the tips of his fingers, He questions:" when is the Judgement Day"?

Quran 82 v 1-5 : When the sky is cleft assunder, when the stars are scattered; when the oceans are suffered to burst forth; and when the graves are turned upside down; then shall each soul know what it has sent forward and also kept back

Quran 22v2: o mankind, fear your Lord! The convulsion of the hour of judgement will be a terrible thing. The day you shall see every suckling mother forget her baby and every pregnant female delivering her unformed pregnancy, you shall see mankind as if intoxicated.

Quran 80v34-37: that day shall a man flee from his own brother, mother, father, from his wife and children; each of them that Day, will have enough concern (of his own) to make him indifferent to the others.

The sojourn of man towards this day commences from birth. As he grow older, he gets nearer to his grave. He may not live to sixty years before he answers death's summon. It is the first stage in the Judgement Day Proceedings. It puts all on equal footing. Every thing that lives must die. The male and female, the old and the young, believer and the unbeliever, the Muslims and the non-Muslims, the righteous and the unrighteous, the knowledgeable and the ignorant, the rich and the poor, the strong and the weak, the healthy and the sick, the king and the subject, the oppressor and the oppressed are all equal before death. Nobody will die except that he is shown his place in Hell or Paradise. Somec angels are assigned to punish the unbelievers and sinners at the point of death. They beat them on their faces and backs. However, every person will suffer the pang of death in proportion to the quality of his deeds. While it will be light on the believers, it will be hard on the unbelievers. The departure of the soul from the body is very painful indeed.

The time has come for man to return to His Lord and render accounts of all his deeds. He must part with his beloved wives, children, family and friends. He will bid adieu to this world and proceed to that of loneliness in the grave. He will leave his wealth behind for others to inherit and travel with his deeds to the unknown abode. When a believer is about to die, angels of mercy will descend to him with their shinning faces. They will bring a shroud and perfume from Al-Janah. They will sit and lay waiting for him to the extent of eyesight. Then, angel of death will come, sit by his head and say , "O ye pure soul, go out to the forgiveness and pleasure from your Lord". As the soul quits the body, they will not let it stay for a moment in the hand of the angel of death until they have taken and kept it in the white cloth they have brought. They will ascend with it to Allah (SWT) who will welcome it and ask them to keep it in the Illiyin. As for the unbelievers, some angels will also come to him, but with stinking black clothe. After the soul has departed from the body, they will keep it in the cloth they have brought and ascend with it to Allah (SWT). He will reject it and ask them to keep it in the Sijjin.

When man is eventually laid in his grave and covered with the earth, the soul is restored back to the body. Two back angels with thunder-like voice will appear to him with an iron rod, which can pounder a mountain. They will ask him three questions:

1. Who is your God?

2. What do you know about Prophet Muhammed (saw)?

3. Whjat is your religion?

If he fails to answer them satisfactorily, he will be severely beateb with their iron rods. His cries will be heard by all except men and Jinns. Thereafter, the soul will remain in the Barzakh, suffering or enjoying until the resurrection day.

Nevertheless, before this world ends, there will be numerous signs indicating the imminence of the Hour. Hence, the minor and the major signs of the Last Day. This will be followed by disintegration in the cosmos. Then everything in existence will pass into extinction except Allah alone. At a time when Allah (SWT) wills, the Trumpet will be sounded while the various stages and the proceedings of the judgement day will commence immediately. The first will be rising from the graves, while the last will be entrance into Al-Janah or Al-Jahanam.

Posted by: Backslider
Insert Quote
both of them are not Jews That Noun was used the to Describe Judah so that name was used to call all the children of isreal.

In Judah was Isreal named and all the people from Abraham.

All the people from Abraham cant be Jews when Abraham himself wasn’t one.

And if you want to say all the people are Jews, it will include Ishmael and we know that he wasnt a Jew.

Posted by backslider
You call the Bible Corrupt and You quote from the Bible U use the Bible that you Claim is false I can't understand you at all. I cannot accept Muhamed or ALI THE FRIEND OF ALLAH because They can not wash my sins away. I cannot follow ISSIAH jeremiah moses abraham etc as GOD.

The reason for that is that, if I have been quoting from the Quran, you will not believe me, so I have to use what you believe in to convince you. Am sorry for that sir.

My dear brother, Jesus never washed anybody's sin.

If he can wash sins, why didn’t he come immediately Adam. Besides, he wasnt sent to you, you are not a jew. He had his ministry limited to Israel alone. All prophets were sent to their people except Muhammed that was sent to all mankind.

Quran 23 v 44: then we sent our messengers in succession. Every time there came to a nation their messenger, they denied him, so we made them follow one another and we made them as (the true stories for mankind to learn a lesson from them). So away with a people who believe not.

Quran 4 v 152: and those who believe in Allah and His messengers and make no distinction between any of them (messengers), we shall give them their rewards and Allah is Ever Oft-forgiving, most Merciful

NOW READ THE VERSES TO SHOW THAT EVERY SINNER WILL BEAR HIS BURDEN

Deuteronomy 24v16: the fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the father’s, EVERY MAN SHALL BE PUT TO DEATH FOR HIS SIN

2nd chronicles 25v4: the fathers shall not be put to death for the children, or the children be put to death for the fathers, BUT EVERY MAN SHALL DIE FOR HIS OWN SIN

Ezekiel 18v4: behold, all souls are mine, the soul of the father as well as the soul of son is mine, THE SOUL THAT SINS SHALL DIE.

Ezekiel 18v20-22: the soul that sin shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son, the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself. But if a wicked turns away from all sins which he has committed and keeps all my statues and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him, for the righteousness which he has done he shall live.

Galatia 6 v5 & 7: for each man will have to bear his own load. (7) do not be decived, God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap

MUHAMMED (SAW) WAS SENT TO ALL MANKIND

Quran 21v107: and we have not sent you (Muhammed saw) but as a mercy to the world (all creatures including man, animsl, jinn etc)

Quran 34v28: and we have not sent you (O Muhammed saw) but to all the men as a bearer of good news and as a warner, but most do not know

Quran 46v9: say: I (Muhammed saw) ,am not the first of the apostles, and I do not follow anything but that which is revealed to me, and I am nothing but a plain warner.

Quran 7v157: those who follow the apostle, whom they find written down with them in the Injeel and Torah, who enjoins them good and forbids them evil, and makes lawful to them impure things, and removes from them their burden and the shackles which were upon them; so (as far) those who believe in Him and honour Him and Help Him, and follow the light which has been sent down with Him, these it is that are the successful.

The above tells us that we have the holy Prophet (Muhammed saw) prophesised in the Bible.

Posted by backslider
According to bible standard Mohamed doesn't fit into any type of prophet. I will never use the bible to explain the Quran never You keep using the Bible to explain the Quran.

Sorry sir, If I use the Quran, you will not believe me, so I have to use what you believe in.

Aword is enough for the wise

Maa Salam

@backslider,

Brother

comparing sunnis and shittes is like comparing protestant with JAEHOVAH WITNESS.

Give me surah that you are referring to and I will explain to you. It is well known that the biblw is corrupt and not reliable. The Quran still stands the test of time.

These are the questions I asked then


1. the Quran the shites read and sunnis
2. where they face during prayer
3. the Surahs they recite during prayers.

etc when you able to answer these, I will come up with more.

Also which christian doctrine are you referring to?

Another se of questions

1. Can Catholics worship with Protestant.
2. Can white garment worship with C.A.C.
3. Can Jehovah Witness worship with Deeper Life
etc,

Islam is the only way

Maa Salam

Dear backslider,

Brother

Posted by backslider
what i am saying is that You are quoting the bible and you don't know what you are saying this makes me understand why you claim you were a Christian and you don't even know Scripture.
I can't help you with this Though you need to humbly ask the Holy Ghost to teach. Ask like a babe (that is Humble)

What have I been quoting that has never been from the bible?

About Holy Ghost teaching me bible

Christians do say that one need to pray for God's guidance in order to be able to interprete the bible, but Peter made us known that you dont have to go through all that pain in order to read the bible.

Read brother

2nd Peter 1v20: knowing this first, that no prophesy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation

Let me leave you with this quote

Quran 6v125: And whosoever Allah wills to guide, He opens his breast to Islam; and whosoever He wills to send astray, He makes his breast closed and constricted as if he is climbing up to the sky. Thus Allah puts the wrath on those who believe not.
I pray that may Allah's wrath never be on

Islam is the religion before Allah. The Noah's ark of today, embark on it and be saved.

Salam

@ 4 get me

Posted by 4 get me
and claimed he revealed the Torah to Moses.

Your fellow christians are aware that there is something called 'Torah' unless you want to lie.

Posted by 4 get me
So, in effect, Allah was the one who made mistakes and was fluctuating between opinions when revealing the Qur'an to Muhammad. That is why Muslims have ever been looking for loopholes in the Bible to explain away the clear abrogations of Qur'anic verses.

Okay. You know that Allah gave us reasons for the abrogation viz:

None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?" Quran 2: 106

"When We substitute one revelation for another, and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages), they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not." Quran 16:101

Let us re-read the verse below:

And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground anymore for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more everything living, as I have done. [Genesis 8:21]

If i say I will not AGAIN do anything. What does that means to you. To me it means that I have been doing it or done it before and want to put a stop to it. Is that your own meaning too? If it is, lets go on.

Also in the third line, we see the word 'AGAIN' meaning that God will not be smiting them as he used to.

Now brother, If I say I will not be doing something again, what does that mean to you? Let me have you own view too. To me it means, I have repented from what I have been doing. So also God, He repented from cursing the ground and also repented from smiting them. Is that not so? God made mistake in cursing and smiting people

If not, let me have your meaning

Posted by 4 get me
In Exodus 32:14, where did you read that God made a mistake?

Let me give you a verse from another author
Exodus 32v14: So the Lord WITHDREW HIS THREAT and didnt bring against his people the disaster he had threatened.

In all fairness, what does the above mean to you? If I say, 'I want to do something but will not be doing it again', what does it implies?

Lets take the verses one after the other

1. Abrogation Of Divorce

If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, and if after she leaves his house she becomes the wife of another man, (Deutronomy 24:1-2)

But Jesus in his own time said
"It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.' But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery. (Matthew 5:31-32)

Look at this man, he is expecting Jesus to say 'abrogation'.

What does the above means to you? Moses said that they can divorce and re-marry but Jesus said that it is written in their law that they can divorce BUT THAT NOW that is now alllowed and that they cant marry divorcee.

1. What does that means to you when Jesus nullifies a law and replaces with another?


2. Law Of Absolute Justice

In the book of Deteronomy:

Show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. (Deutronomy 19:21)

Jesus again said:
"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. (Matthew 5:38-42)

Is the above not a softer code?
2. Brother what does the above means to you, Jesus replacing Moses' law with his? Is that not abrogation?

3. Law Of Oaths

If you make a vow to the LORD your God, do not be slow to pay it, for the LORD your God will certainly demand it of you and you will be guilty of sin. But if you refrain from making a vow, you will not be guilty. Whatever your lips utter you must be sure to do, because you made your vow freely to the LORD your God with your own mouth. (Deutronomy 23:21-23)

That is, it is permissible to make an oath for various reasons, however, the swearer must fulfil the oath he makes. In Jesus' time it became necessary for him to abrogate this permission so that the swearing of oaths became forbidden. In Matthew it is recorded:

"Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, `Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. Simply let your `Yes' be `Yes,' and your `No,' `No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one. (Matthew 5:33-37)

Another question
3. Moses said that you can make vow but Jesus came with his own knocking off that of Moses. What do you call a situation where a verse cancels another?

@backslider,

Posted by: Backslider
Insert Quote
Absolutely Amazing !!!!!!!****&&&&$$%%@@@@@@~!!@###############

YOU are quoting the SCRIPTURE or am Not seeing well this is great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

READ BELOW

Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." (Matthew 28:18-20)

THIS IS THE THEME OF THE BIBLE JESUS IS A LAW SO WHEN YOU LIVE BY AND HIM YOU CANNOT BE JUDGED BY ANY LAW. YOU ARE QUOTING THIS AND YOU DONT EVEN KNOW WELL HOPE GOD GIVES YOU THE EYES TO SEE THAT ALL POWER IN HEAVEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!@@@@@@@@@@##########&&&**** And EARTH IS GIVEN TO HIM.

THE LAW IS LOVE AND GOD IS LOVE

I dont understand what you meant by the above. Please shed more light on the verse telling me the reason for above.

Maa Salam

@backslider,

Posted by: Backslider
if Abraham was not a Jew that means that Moses was Never a Jew then Your Trying to use A "Corrupted Book" To Justify Your Bible can not be Taken also.

Which book are you referring to? Can you bring me one of the corrupt verses. It is high time I posted my absurdities in the bible.

Posted by backslider
sura 41 v 9 is false verse then because it say He created the Earth in 2 days it contradict verse 1

I have explained brother

Dear brother, If I had given you verses from the Quran telling you who Abraham and Moses were, you would have called me a liar, but I showed you verses from your bible telling you that Abraham was not a jew likewise Moses.

Which book did you refer to as "corrupted book"? Let me have what you meant by corrupted book please.Didnt you read the above verses from your bible? Go over the book of Genesis and you will know more about Abraham. Also go to the book of Exodus where you will read a lot about Moses too.

Brother, its very glaring that despite what is written in the bible, most christians believe that both of them are Jews. The christians go to the extent of condemning muslims for telling them that they are not jews.

Why not accept the religion of the prophets today, time is going.

Maa Salam

@backslider,

Posted by: Backslider
Insert Quote
@babs

if Abraham was not a Jew that means that Moses was Never a Jew then Your Trying to use A "Corrupted Book" To Justify Your Bible can not be Taken also.

sura 41 v 9 is false verse then because it say He created the Earth in 2 days it contradict verse 1

Dear brother, If I had given you verses from the Quram teling you who Abraham and Moses were, you would have called me a liar, but I showed you verses from your bible telling you that Abraham was not a jew likewise Moses.

Which book did you refer to as "corrupted book"? Let me have what you meant by corrupted book please.Didnt you read the above verses from your bible? Go over the book of Genesis and you will know more about Abraham. Also go to the book of Exodus where you will read a lot about Moses too.

Brother, its very glaring that despite what is written in the bible, most christians believe that both of them are Jews. The christians go to the extent of condemning muslims for telling them that they are not jews.

Why not accept the religion of the prophets today, time is going.

Maa Salam

@4 get me

Posted by 4 get me
Muhammad did not wait for your emphasis before hating Jews and Christians.

I have told you to give me a verse that says christians should be killed. Why are you associating yourself with the jews. Are you a jew?

My brother I have told you, the wars the prophet fought then were fought defensively and to repel aggression. The wars were not fought with christians. Christians were given freedom to leave and do anything and EVEN PRACTISED THEIR FAITH.

Posted by 4 get me
We didn't have to think anything - we only had to watch the interpretation of that verse manifested in the hatred Muslims have expressed against the Jews - so much so that Muhammad referred to them as pigs.

Brother, I wonder why you are always quick at attacking muslims but failed in noting that same or even worse exists in your bible.

Jesus says in
Mathew 7v5: Hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will be see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

You acted contrary to Jesus' saying. You didnt note the below verses in your bible before attacking muslims

Well, if you are saying Muhammed (saw) hated jews and referred to them as pigs, please explain the below verses for me

Jesus said to her who sought her help
Mark 7v27: it is not meet to take the children's bread and cast it unto the DOGS.

In the above, the jews are regarded to as the children while gentiles is referred to as Dogs.

He also said
Mathew 7v6: Do not give that which is holy TO THE DOGS neither cast your pearls to the PIGS.

@Mustay

Thank you brother.

@pataki,

Mustay has said. It is Laziness that is making the like of you stay put as christians.

You dont have to puify yourself after having intercourse with your wife.
You dont have to purify yourself after unrinating.etc
You dont have to perform any ablution
You dont have to pray five times daily
You dont have to 'pay back' any missed dancing and clapping during service.

etc,

All you need do is just believe that jesus died for you, YOU ARE SAVED.

Posted by mrpataki
See who talks here oh,  I will not give up on you, babatunde, until accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior!. Even the Love of God envelopes me into doing such.
My funny brother. No need to preach to me. I already believe in him likewise all muslims. You would have read the story of Jesus in the Quran, it shows that we muslims believe in him. We believe in him as the servant and messenger of Allah sent to Israelites alone. He came to the Israelite with the Gospel.I also learnt that he was a muslim likewise other prophets. He is called Isa (PBUH). Did you see me praying for him (PBUH). We accord him repect more than you do BUT we do not believe him

1. as the saviour (He is well known to be earthly saviour and he is not the only earthly saviour)

2. as God

3. as one of the three (trinity)

4. to have died ( that is the reason for his second coming, he will come and die because it is appointed unto man to die once but after this, the judgment)

etc,

Posted by mrpataki
How do you mean about the fact that muslims can worship God when not feeling fine by leaning on something considering the fact that your only mode of worship is by your Yoga lessons in the name of prayers?

Honestly, you have to leave this thread. I have had enough of you, am laughing here. You are just funny with your post.

Yoga ko, yogo or yoghourt ni?? Yeye friend

@Mustay

Thank you brother.

@pataki,

Mustay has said. It is Laziness that is making the like of you stay put as christians.

You dont have to puify yourself after having intercourse with your wife.
You dont have to purify yourself after unrinating.etc
You dont have to perform any ablution
You dont have to pray five times daily
You dont have to 'pay back' any missed dancing and clapping during service.

etc,

All you need do is just believe that jesus died for you, YOU ARE SAVED.

Posted by mrpataki
See who talks here oh, I will not give up on you, babatunde, until accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior!. Even the Love of God envelopes me into doing such.

My funny brother. No need to preach to me. I already believe in him likewise all muslims. You would have read the story of Jesus in the Quran, it shows that we muslims believe in him. We believe in him as the servant and messenger of Allah sent to Israelites alone. He came to the Israelite with the Gospel.I also learnt that he was a muslim likewise other prophets. He is called Isa (PBUH). Did you see me praying for him (PBUH). We accord him repect more than you do BUT we do not believe him

1. as the saviour (He is well known to be earthly saviour and he is not the only earthly saviour)

2. as God

3. as one of the three (trinity)

4. to have died ( that is the reason for his second coming, he will come and die because it is appointed unto man to die once but after this, the judgment)

etc,

Posted by mrpataki
How do you mean about the fact that muslims can worship God when not feeling fine by leaning on something considering the fact that your only mode of worship is by your Yoga lessons in the name of prayers?

Honestly, you have to leave this thread. I have had enough of you, am laughing here. You are just funny with your post.

Yoga ko, yogo or yoghourt ni?? Yeye friend

@ 4 get me

It seems there is problem.

I keep typing Ur ( U R) of Chaldees and keep seing Your.

Sorry brother jare. I cant understand o

@4 get me

Sorry for the word 'your of the Chaldees". It was typographical error. What I meant is Ur of Chaldees.

Stay blessed.

@backslider

Dear brother,

Posted by: Backslider  
This is where you have faultered again When the speaker in Quran41;9 spoke he did not say 4 he added the four in the consequent verse and Added what was done on this four no where did he state that he was creating on this day in that verse be truthful to yourself.

Allah in that verse says earth was created in 2 days. Must God tell you that he added the 2 before you will believe.
Okay I will explain,

the earth was created in 2 days (verse 9). Only earth was created here. Its like buying a Land without the start of building the house.

Posted by: Backslider  
I sense that you Claim you know more than me I have not said that I know more than you I am not pumped up with Knowledge I am Humbled by It.

NO Brother, try to understand. What I mean there is that you cant know the Quran more than I do and doesnt mean that I am more knowledgeble than you do. But as far as Quran is concerned, you cant beat me to it. No man is an island.Learning continues till one dies.

[b]Posted by backslider
You must Know that In quran 41 ; 10 there is no verb of creating or making there.  

Quran 41: 10 He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…

Now to you what does set on, bestowed and measured mean?

To set on in lay man's language  is tp put something on another. 'He  set on the earth mountains'. meaning he created mountains on earth. No any meaning apart from that.Or what does set on means to you?

Bestowing can be termed to mean giving.
While measuring means to measure something. But here, note the word 'measured all things therein to give nourishment in due proportion.

He created the earth in 2 days, set upon it mountains and other blessings in another 2 days making total of 4 days. There is no better answer than the one I have given you.

Posted by backslider
No where in Verse 10 it mentions Creation or Making

But you read 'He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion'
Note the above verse is not present in verse 9. Verse 9 is for only creation while verse tells us the beautification of the earth.

Now if I say that I built my house in 6 days
Bought the land in 2days
Did the foundation, building etc in 4 days totality
Did the House warming in 2 days.

To you, will you say, I lied that I built my house in 6 days? No, it means that I did the purchase in 2 days, did the foundation, building in another 2 days making four and did the house warming in another 2 days making 6 days in all. Will you then diasgree with me?

Posted by backslider
Your Application of Abrogation is not correct or it is only correct if it suites your belief system. I know You are reading and Asking Questions from people versed. People like you that fear nothing will Find the Truth May be not with me But with your Own conscience.

Asking questions from people! Which people? No way sir.
Which of the application is not correct? You know I gave you instances for abrogation in another thread created by you. There, I listed some of the abrogatd verses in the Bible.

Posted by backslider
People like you that fear nothing will Find the Truth May be not with me But with your Own conscience.

Dear brother, Haba, I have explained everything to you now. There is no lie in my explanation. I pray that you see the truth very soon. It may not be through me but another person. You yourself know that I have not been quoting verses out of context or misquoting same. I have been backing my posts with biblical chapters and verses.

Till I hear from you.
But remember

Quran 3 v 85; And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of himanmd in the hereafter, he will be among the losers.

Brother, I dont want you to be. No prophet will come again. We are our prophets. The message has been preached and you will not say I didnt tell you.

A man will be asked concerning five things on the day of resurrection:

1. Concerning his life, how he spent it

2. Concerning his youth, how he grew old.

3. Concerning his wealth, whence he acquired it.

4. In what way he spent it and

5. What was it that he did with the knowledge that he has.


Also remember five things before 5 tings

1. Remember when you have time to worship God before you will have no time

2. Remember when you are young and energic to worship before your old age.

3. Remember when you are healthy to worship God before Sickness.

4. Remember When you are affluent before Poverty

5. Remember when you still have live to worship God before death

Aword is enough for the wise

Maa Salam

@4 get me,

Quote from 4 get me
They belong to the same covenant lineage known as the Jews.

Can you show me in the bible where it says that Abraham and Moses were Jews?

ON ABRAHAM

If you cant find, I will help you out. Read Genesis 11v13
Genesis 11v13: And Terah took Abraham his son, and Lot the son of Haran, his son's son, and Sarai his daughter-in-law, his son Abram's wife, and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the Land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran and dwelt there.

Abraham who was born in Ur of Chaldees could not have been a Jew.

First, he couldnt have been born a Jew because Ur of Chaldees was in Mesopotamia which is now part of Iraq.He was then more an Arab than a Jew.

Secondly, the name "Jew" came after the existence of Judah, the great grandson of Abraham.

Read further
Genesis 12v4 and 5: , and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran, and into the Land of Canaan they came.

Abraham migrated to Canaan at the age of seventy-five and the bible made it known to us that he was a stranger there
Genesis 17v8: and i will give unto thee and to the seed after thee, the land wherein thou ART A STRANGER, all the Land of Canaan. For an everlasting possession.; and I will be their God.
And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew.

Hebrew means 'a man from the other side of the Euphrates'.

Abraham was a Hebrew. the descendants of Jacob were Israelites consisting of the twelve tribes. Judah was nicknamed 'jew' so that only Judah's descendant were called jews originally.

TO MOSES

To know if Moses was a Jew, please read
Exodus 6v16-20: and these are the names of the sons of LEVI according to their generations, Gherson, and Kohath, and Merari, and the sons of Kohath, Amram, and AMRAM TOOK HIM JOCHEBED HIS FATHER'S SISTER TO WIFE, AND SHE BARE HIM AARON AND MOSES.

Moses was not a Jew because he was not a descendant from Judah but a Levite.

@domwas2,

Thanks a lot for that wonderful post.

Firstly, It will make some see that 'anointed' does not in any means what they might have been thinking as babs has tried explaining to them.

Secondly, the sonship of God is being used by the Jews for those that fear and do God's wish.

May God increases your knowledge.

@backslider,

Never mind, I a moderate muslim and will always be.

Now once again, go and find out from your cafe friend.

1. the Quran the shites read and sunnis
2. where they face during prayer
3. the Surahs they recite during prayers.

etc when you able to answer these, I will come up with more.


Now to mathew 19v17: Jesus told him that if he could keep up with all that he told him, he should then follow him.

Follow him here does not mean blood atonement. He meant that he should follow him as a leader that leads people and as you are well aware, all prophets are leaders and examples for their people.

Also follow me is just like being an earthly saviour but God alone is the heavenly saviour. Ordinary people can be saviour. For instance, you assists someone in removing sharp obstacle from the road, you are the saviour of that person at that time because you never can tell maybe the person if not for your assistance, can have a very serious accident.

Again, you can also be a saviour by assisting someone make possible what he thought remained impossible etc.

Jesus even made it clear that heaven would be certain for the main if he could meet up with all that Jesus told him.

Read chapter 20 and digest the illustration there and you will get a better picture of what jesus tried telling the man.

MATHEW 10v23: but when they persecute you in this city, flee ye unto another (city), for verily, i say unto you , ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, til the son of man be come

[b]Posted by backslider
THE DISCIPLES NEVER EVANGELIZED THE WHOLE OF ISREAL IT IS FACT YOU AND I KNOW IT IS STARING YOU IN THE FACE EVEN NOW NO ONE HAS EVANGELIZED A NATION COMPLETELY HUNDRED PERCENT WITH THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST.

My dear brother, read the verse again. No emphasis was laid on evangelizing Israel.The above verse referred to Jesus's disciples promising them that he (jesus) would come for them before their leaving the cities and till now he hasnt come. Jesus was talking to them there. Read the verse again to grab the meaning.

Even a lot of evangelism have taken place round the city of Israel coupled with prosecution yet no sign of him till now.

On crucifixion

Questions for you.

1. What clinical instrument was used to certify him dead?
2. When one of the soldiers thrust his spear, blood and water gushed out, do that happen to dead bodies?
3. Why was the stone rolled away?
4. Do spirits look like Gardeners?
5. Do Jews massage dead body after three days?
6. What does mary want to do with a decomposing corpse?
7. Can she alone carry the corpse
8. Do spirits eat like the living?
9. do spirits carry marks on their body?
10. If I say, ‘ I have no flesh and bones', what does that implies
11. if I say, ‘ I have flesh and bones', what does that mean?

Please answer my questions dear brother.
NOTE; dear brother, am not saying that Jesus will not be coming but am trying to let you see that the bible wasnt inspired, most of the sayings accorded to Jesus were not his, the authors were not there to witness the whole incident, they just copied from each other etc

Please read Isaiah 37 and compare with 2nd Kings 19, you will see that everything was copied word for word (100% plagiarism). The holy spirit should have told one of the authors that it had inspired one to write it before.

Salam

@davidylan,

I never knew you are still around having been knocked out by your sister shahan.

@ babyosis,

I am even laughing here with regards to your post.

Posted by babyosis,
The burden of proof is on you and you are yet to give one single evidence that Christ was not crucified.
Don't twist it around.
your Al taquiyah is not working properly since we now know what it is.

Did you see where I stop?

Like I said, the question seemed tough for you, little wonder you resorted to your ignoring of a thing stuff.

An evidence

I asked your sister if jews massage rotten bodies after three days still no response.

It is a fact that muslims, christians and jews do no massage dead bodies after three days.

In three days, a corpse starts rotting from within and if we massage such a decomposing body, it will fall into pieces.

For her to have gone to massage Jesus, she must have sensed that jesus didnt die and came to massage him to relieve him of the pain.

Or better still, of what use is the massaging of a decomposing corpse? Does it make sense to massage a decomposing corpse?

That is just one of the evidence.

Secondly,

mary asked jesus where Jesus was taken to so that she might take her away. (john 20v15)
Did you notice the pronoun "him" and not "it" used for a corpse?

another question there is that, what did she want to do with a decomposing corpse? To re-bury? or to put under her bed?

3.Can she alone carry the corpse.

4. Can she alone bury him even if she had come to carry him? I dont think she wanted to dump her somewhere, she must have come for burial!

NO, she came for live jesus having seen sign of life in him.

Take care till I come with more evidence and if you still agree that he died and was crucified, I will nail you with the last evidence, the SIGN OF JONAH (very interesting)

Take care.

@ babyosis,

Lets face the fact. I am moderate muslim and will always remain one. No muslim supports terrorism.

What do you have to say to the genocide that happened in 1994 in Rwanda ( africa most populous catholic nation).

Christians clerics allowed Tutsis to seek refuge in churches, then surrendered them to Hutu death squads, as well as Hutu priests and ministers encouraging their congregations to kill Tutsi.

In that same year, four clergymen faced genocide charges at the U.N. - created International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda and in 1993 in Belgium, two Rwanda nuns were convicted for their roles in the massacre of 7,000 Tutsis who sought protection at a Benedictine convent.

You may go to http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=1106&id=1669112006

@babyosis,



Take care and please where is Shahan? I have not heard from her for some days now. Hope she is fine.

Regards

ABROGATION

It has been read that the reason for the abrogated verses in the Quran has been given based on the verses supporting abrogation.

But going through the bible, it becomes clear that omnipotent and omniscient God did make mistakes and repented. This means that the God did not know his own actions and the outcomes of the actions.

Now for some fine examples.let us first start with Old Testament. In the story of Noah, it is mention that:

And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground anymore for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more everything living, as I have done. [Genesis 8:21]

He repented

And in the story of Moses, we read

And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people. [Exodus 32:14]

God repenting??

Posted by 4 get me
there were no abrogated verses in the Bible, as "Scripture cannot be broken" - John 10:35.

Lets see there if there are no abrogated verses in the bible

We all understand that abrogation means to annul, to abolish etc

Jesus said:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-19)

Meaning that he didnt come to make any abrogation abi.

Lets see if really the above statement is true

Abrogation Of Divorce

The best examples of Jesus abrogating parts of Old Testament law concern a number of statements recorded in the gospel according to Matthew. The most prominent of them would be the Law concerning Divorce.

In the Old Testament we find the following law concerning divorce:

If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, and if after she leaves his house she becomes the wife of another man, (Deutronomy 24:1-2)

Now without going into the minute of this particular law of divorce, one thing becomes immediately clear. Not only is divorce permitted by God, it is legal for her to remarry.

However in the time of Jesus, the rules of divorce seem to have taken a U-turn.

"It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.' But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery. (Matthew 5:31-32)

Here Jesus abrogated the former permission to divorce according to the husband's displeasure and strictly allowed it under one condition - adultery. He even went so far as to legislate that divorcees were not permitted to remarry, clearly abrogating the former permission. But what is the reason given for this abrogation? Had God changed His mind? Is this evidence of God not being omniscient? Or more importantly, is this evidence that in fact God was never the author of these laws?

Well Jesus himself explains:

"Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?" Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery." (Matthew 19:7-9)

Jesus points to the fact that God designs laws that are suitable to the needs and exigencies of the time and audience.

Law Of Absolute Justice

In the book of Deteronomy:

Show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. (Deutronomy 19:21)

Quite a harsh law of absolute justice that was necessary due to the conditions of Moses' age. But Jesus was inspired by God to reveal a softer code for the believers to practice in individual relationships. By abrogating the harshness of absolute justice, Jesus was inspired to encourage the believers to employ forgiveness and mercy. It is recorded he said:

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. (Matthew 5:38-42)

It is a different story that many Christians do not practice what Jesus has told them to do.

Law Of Oaths

We read:

If you make a vow to the LORD your God, do not be slow to pay it, for the LORD your God will certainly demand it of you and you will be guilty of sin. But if you refrain from making a vow, you will not be guilty. Whatever your lips utter you must be sure to do, because you made your vow freely to the LORD your God with your own mouth. (Deutronomy 23:21-23)

That is, it is permissible to make an oath for various reasons, however, the swearer must fulfil the oath he makes. In Jesus' time it became necessary for him to abrogate this permission so that the swearing of oaths became forbidden. In Matthew it is recorded:

"Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, `Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. Simply let your `Yes' be `Yes,' and your `No,' `No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one. (Matthew 5:33-37)

Jesus Abrogating His Own Commandments

Perhaps the clearest example of God inspiring Jesus to practice abrogation can be seen in the commissioning of his disciples. It is written in the New Testament that initially Jesus forbade his disciples from preaching to non-Jews. He restricted their activities and commanded them to avoid Gentiles. However, due to the change in circumstances and the completion of his earthly mission, Jesus abrogated this earlier law and made it not only permissible but obligatory for his disciples to reach out to a broader base.

A nice example of Jesus asking his disciples to preach the lost sheep of Israel is:

These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. (Matthew 10:5-6)

This prohibition is reinforced by Jesus' own practice:

A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession." Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us." He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." (Matthew 15:22-24)

Even though because of his mercy Jesus healed the sick daughter, he made it clear that his mission was to the Jews, not to the Gentiles. Later on this was abrogated and Jesus commanded his disciples to reach out to all peoples. It is recorded he said:

Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." (Matthew 28:18-20)

It is clear that the concept of abrogation: the nullifying of an older commandment or practice in favour of a newer law, is nothing new and it has been practiced by God for reasons known to him. What we know is that the laws governing the mankind (i.e., Shariah) changes according to the needs of the society. But the concept of monotheism (i.e., Tawheed) remains the same. The Creator knows very well that his creation, the humans, need time and discipline to grow and mature, He reveals commandments and practices that help them develop both as individuals and as members of society.

And Allah knows best!

Maa Salam

@batu, 4 get me and pataki,

Posted by batu
[b]Not only so, this is how the Qur'an describes Jews and Christians at some point in Muhammad's theology (Sura 5 vs.82):

1. Jews are enemies
"Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans;"[/b]

No emphasis on christians here

Posted by batu
2. Christians are devoted men of learning and not arrogant.

Just like my brother backslider

Posted by batu
"and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, 'We are Christians': because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.

Behind this cavalier, what was Muhammad's real reaction to the "people of the Book"?

Still no where that says christians should be killed

Posted by batu
1. Both Jews and Christians are regarded as enemies (Sura 5 vs.51)

"O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust."

Now add to these the hatred quoted earlier that you're referring to about the slaying of non-Muslims. My question still remains: at whatever point in Muhammad's career, why did he hate Jews and Christians so much that even the Qur'an could not conceal this hatred?

Brothers. your problem is only comprehension. The above verse means that muslims should not take jews as Auliyah (protector, helpers) and not probably what you might be thinking

@ 4 get me & pataki,

Posted by 4 get me
There's a saying among my villa people as well: "If you dey pass on and hear person talk wetin concern you, pay attention before them do you damage!"

It is for that reason I don't go to the thread: "Muslims: What Did You Learn In Islam Recently?" I just pass my own jeje. But in Islam Talk thread, I dey pass when one of these gentlemen mention wetin concern us - that explains my presence here, before he do me damage!

Honestly, I have given up on both of you but you still remain my friends .

I have explained myself, you only need to go over the thread. Hey wait, the issue of jacob

Heb. 11:21 - "By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff."

So you dont know that muslims too can worship God when not feeling fine by leaning on something to aid support.

Posted by 4 get me
"If you dey pass on and hear person talk wetin concern you, pay attention before them do you damage!"

Which one be your own? How e take concern you if dem dey fight for other compound? Se na your compound.

Another talk say, person no dey dem im house come see trouble.

Take care friends till we meet again.

@domwas2,

Please explain these predictions

1.
MATHEW 10v23: but when they persecute you in this city, flee ye unto another (city), for verily, i say unto you , ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, til the son of man be come

Note: the disciples of Jesus fled and they have perished for 2000 years with no sign of the return of jesus.

2.
mathew 24v v 29 -34: , the son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, truly, THIS GENERATION WILL NOT PASS AWAY TILL ALL THESE THINGS TAKE PLACE.

Note: all the generations have passed away that hardly could you find any of them again, yet jesus hasnt come.

Stay blessed till I hear from you

@ 4 get me

Hope you are cool. Some questions for you here on 'jesus dying for your sins'

1. Why did God not send Jesus immediately after Adam but allowed string of prophets to have come and gone before Jesus?

2. Can you face firing squad on behalf of a sin committed by by another person?

3. If God's anger was kindled against Adam and Eve for their disobedience, could the anger persist onto the generation of Adam and Eve?

4. If sin means breaking of God's law, which of the children of Adam had ever known anything called the forbidden tree?

5. If men are born sinners, the coming of jesus at the end of the world to die for sins of men is equally stupefying with regards to countless number of people that have gone before his coming.

6. Let me ask, what kind of God is that, because of the sin of two people, decided to condemn the entire humanity for the sin they knew nothing about?

7. If really there is salvation in his blood, why did he preached repentance

8. Also if its only through his blood one can gain salvation, why did he used little children as examples since the bible says that no one born of a woman is clean

Let me stop there for you to respond

If you want to tell me that Jesus is an earthly saviour, fine ,I agree and he wasnt the only one, we have lots of earthly saviour but Heavenly saviour belongs to only Allah.

As am preaching to you now, If God willing, Allah opens your heart, I will become your earthly saviour because God uses me to touch your heart . Thats what hw meant by saviour.

Also if salvation can be got through only jesus,(john 14 v 1-7), please explain the below verses
1.
Mathew 19v17: , And he said unto him, why callest thou me good? There is no one good but one, that is God. BUT IF THOU WILT ENTER LIFE, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.

The above verse shows that if you are able to keep the commandments (as given to moses), you shall gain paradise

2.
Mathew 18 v 3-6; And said, verily i say unto you, except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter the kingdom of God. Whosoever shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of God and who so shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

also
Mark 10v14-15: but when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased and said unto them, sufffer the little children to cometh unto me and forbid them not, for of such is the kingdom of God.

Concerning purity if children
Proverb 20v11: even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure and whether it be right.

The above verse is saying that if anyone can become sinless like children that knew nothing, they would gain paradise, yet no issue of seeing jesus before gaining paradise.

3. Jesus also told his disciples how to pray that

Luke 11v2-4; and he said unto them, when ye pray, say, OUR FATHER WHO ART IN HEAVEN, HALLOWED BE THY NAME, thy kingdom come. they will be done as in heaven, so in earth. give us this day,

Still no where of seeing jesus before gaining salvation.

4.
2nd corinthians 7v14: if my people which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then will i hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Still no mention of getting salvation through jesus.

5.
Mathew 5v19: whosoever shall break one of these commandments, and shall teach men so, he'll be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven

Note, still no mention of getting salvation through jesus but can be got
through keeping the commandments.

6.
mathew 5v20: for except your righteous exceeds the righteousness of the Scribes and the Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of God

Here, it is noted that you can gain paradise by being righteous .i.e doing good deeds.

7.

Isaiah 55v7: let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts, let him return to the Lord, that He may have mercy on him, and to our God, for He will abundantly pardon.

Still same as above. No blood atonement or whatever

Quote from: babs787 on Today at 08:19:30 AM
3. I also learnt that jesus was neither killed nor crucified.

That is typical - a Muslim denial despite obvious statements. Jesus Himself affirmed His arrest, death by crucifixion, and resurrection. If He was not crucified or did not die, how come He spoke afterwards of His resurrection.

"The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. . . Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. (John 20:25-27)

Questions for you.

1. What clinical instrument was used to certify him dead?
2. When one of the soldiers thrust his spear, blood and water gushed out, do that happen to dead bodies?
3. Why was the stone rolled away?
4. Do spirits look like Gardeners?
5. Do Jews massage dead body after three days?
6. What does mary want to do with a decomposing corpse?
7. Can she alone carry the corpse
8. Do spirits eat like the living?
9. do spirits carry marks on their body?
10. If I say, ‘ I have no flesh and bones', what does that implies
11. if I say, ‘ I have flesh and bones', what does that mean?

Let me stop there in order for you to respond

@ 4 get me

THE WORD "WE" IN THE HOLY QURAN

Posted by 4 get me
By the way, if on the other hand, Muhammad is said to have taught monotheism, how many deities were speaking with plural pronouns (WE, US, and OUR) in the Qur'an in precisely the same position as Allah? When we read "We created man" in the Qur'an, to whom does the ""WE" refer - and is that not disguised polytheism? How do you defend a "monotheism" of the "Allah" in the Qur'an when clearly there are several of them?

Lots of christians have been challenging muslims to the use of the word 'we'. Some say it speaks of not only one God but many Gods (Polytheism). I will try to shed light on the above to enlighten christians that ALLAH is one and not three or four.

The word 'we' in the Quran

It is a feature of literary style in Arabic that a person may refer to himself by the pronoun nahnu (we) for respect or glorification. He may also use the word ana (I), indicating one person, or the third person huwa (he). All three styles are used in the Qur’an, where Allaah addresses the Arabs in their own tongue. (Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 4/143).

Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, sometimes refers to Himself in the singular, by name or by use of a pronoun, and sometimes by use of the plural, as in the phrase (interpretation of the meaning): ‘Verily, We have given you a manifest victory” [al-Fath 48:1], and other similar phrases. But Allaah never refers to Himself by use of the dual, because the plural refers to the respect that He deserves, and may refer to His names and attributes, whereas the dual refers to a specific number (and nothing else), and He is far above that.” (Al-‘Aqeedah al-Tadmuriyyah by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah, p. 75).

These words, innaa (“Verily We”) and nahnu (“We”), and other forms of the plural, may be used by one person speaking on behalf of a group, or they may be used by one person for purposes of respect or glorification, as is done by some monarchs when they issue statements or decrees in which they say “We have decided…” etc. [This is known in English as “The Royal We”]

In such cases, only one person is speaking but the plural is used for respect. The One Who is more deserving of respect than any other is Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, so when He says in the Qur’an innaa (“Verily We”) and nahnu (“We”), it is for respect and glorification, not to indicate plurality of numbers. If a verse of this type is causing confusion, it is essential to refer to the clear, unambiguous verse for clarification.

Every time Allaah uses the plural to refer to Himself, it is based on the respect and honour that He deserves.

Maa Salam

@ 4 get me,


JOHN 1v1

John 1:1 - KJV, EMTV & LITV
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Posted by 4 get me
The reason for the other two quoted above is simply to establish the fact for you that the Old Testement prophets knew that the Messiah is God Himself - and that the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ is not a New Testament heresy as many Muslims are led to believe.

Nowhere do we have such claim in the old testament

Posted by 4 get me
A second reason was to point out to you that Muhammad had no justification for denying what the Old Testements clearly referenced. These verses in both Psa. 2:12 and Isa. 9:6 have never been altered - not even one time - before and after Muhammad was born. That is why I have asked once and again that Muslims who believe the dishonest denials of Muhammad should please tell us what the "original Psalms and Isaiah" say - word for word in their direct texts.

I have answered the above and they dont in any way have relationship with Jesus

Posted by 4 get me
A third reason is to show you that there was a basis for Muhammad not having made reference to the prophet Isaiah or Zachariah - those prophets (besides others) clearly wrote about the deity of the Messiah who comes to redeem man.

None of the early prophets before Jesus wrote about the deity of Jesus.Now it seems I have answered part of your questions. My response here will also be for your number 5 question:

#5. Why did Muhammad not mention Isaiah in the Qur'an as one of the prophets of God, even though the Jews recognized him as such, and Jesus quoted from the same Isaiah?

Read the below verse to show that some prophets were mentioned while some were not

Quran 40 v 78: , we did aforetime send apostles before thee: of them THERE ARE SOME WHOSE STORY, WE HAVE RELATED TO THEE and SOME WHOSE STORY WE HAVE NOT RELATED TO THEE.

Read the below to know that Isaiah prophesised the Last Prophet (saw). The prophet (saw) started the revelation with the verse below

Quran96 v 1-5: Read in the name of thy Lord and Chrisher who created man from a mere clot of congealed blood. Read! and thy Lord is most bountiful, He who taught (the use of) the pen. Taught man that which he knew not.

Here, Angel Gabriel came to the prophet with the revelation and told him to read but he couldnt read (because he was unlettered) but the angel pressed him further to read in the name of the Lord and he did.

The below verse will clarify it that he couldnt read nor write

Quran 7 v 158: , the prophet (Muhammed saw) who can neither read nor write.

Now compare the above verses with the below verse

Isaiah 29 v 12: and the book is delivered to him that is not learned saying 'read this I pray thee and he saith, 'I am not learned'

Hope you have seen that he was prophesised in the book of Isaiah

I asked the meaning of the word 'beside' but you waived it aside.

Posted by 4 get me
Moses recognized the Trinity right from Genesis when by inspiration he wrote: "And God said, let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness" (Gen. 1:26).

Who are the 'we' God referred to?

Posted by 4 get me
Nevertheless, among the preaching and writing prophets of the Old Testament, the Trinity is clearly taught - as in the references earlier offered. This in no way mean that three "Gods" were being preached, and there are verses in the OT that clearly demonstrate this.

No where trinity was taught

John 1 v1

The statement that John reproduced in his gospel however was uttered not by John but by A Philo of Alexandria, years before Jesus or John were born. It is therefore completely unlikely that Philo was even remotely referring to Jesus.

There is also another reason for not capitalizing the "G" in John 1:1, considering the Greek of the above verse which disproves the assertion that Jesus is referred to as God in the verse. In the verse above, the first time the word God is used, the Greek is "TON THEOS", which means "a god". However, the stronger Greek word "HO THEOS" which means "Divine God" was used for satan in 2 Corinthians 4:4. The NIV Bible Author wrote "god" for Satan instead of "God", which the word itself literally means The God. The second time the word God is used,", and the word was God," the word for God is TONTHEOS, which also means "a god".

Europeans have evolved a system of capital and small letters non-existent in Greek. The God, HOTHEOS is translated as God with a capital G, whereas Tontheos, which means A or ANY God is translated with a small g, god. In this case however, we see the unlawful translators trying to prove Jesus being God by putting capital G for both whereas it doesn't belong in the case of the "word".

Even the above verse does not speak of trinity but of duality. i.e the word was with God.

Similarly, in "The New Testament, An American Translation" this verse is honestly presented as "In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine."

The New Testament, An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

And again in the dictionary of the Bible, under the heading of "God" we read , "Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated 'the word was with the God [=the Father], and the word was a divine being.'"
The Dictionary of the Bible by John McKenzie, Collier Books, p. 317

In yet another Bible we read:
"The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine"
The Holy Bible, Containing the Old and New Testaments, by Dr. James Moffatt

Dear Brother,
If we look at a different verse, 2 Corinthians 4:4, we find the exact same word (ho theos) that was used in John 1:1 to describe God Almighty is now used to describe the devil, however, now the system of translation has been changed:
"the god of this world (the Devil) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not."

According to the system of the previous verse and the English language, the translation of the description of the Devil should also have been written as "The God" with a capital "G." If Paul was inspired to use the exact same words to describe the Devil, then why should we change it? Why is "The God" translated as simply "the god" when referring to the devil, while "divine" is translated as the almighty "God" when referring to "The Word"? Are we now starting to get a glimpse of how the "translation" of the Bible took place?

Below are examples where 'god' is used

"I have said, Ye (the Jews) are gods; and all of you are children of the most High" Psalms 82:6:

"And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made you a god to Pharaoh"
Exodus 7:1

"the god of this world (the Devil) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not."
2 Corinthians 4:4

Now if I say that "4get me is a prince' and that '4get me' is the prince surely will give different meaning. So also the above verse

Lets check some verses to see if really Jesus is God.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him." John 13:16.

The author here wanted us to understand that God is greater than Jesus.

also

"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." John 14:28.
Can someone "go" to himself? Can someone be "greater" than himself?

"These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:" John 17:1.
If John meant to tell us that "Jesus and God are one and the same" then shall we understand from this verse that God is saying to Himself "Self, glorify me so that I may glorify myself"? Does this sound like this is the message of John?

"While I (Jesus) was with them in the world, I kept them in thy (God's) name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." John 17:12.
If the author of John wanted us to believe that Jesus and God are one person then are we to understand from this verse that God is saying to Himself "Self, while I was in the world I kept them in your name, self. Those who I gave to myself I have kept , "? Is this what the author intended us to understand from his writings?

"Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world." John 17:24.

Similarly, did the author intend us to interpret this as "Self, I will that they also whom I have given myself be with me where I am; that they my behold my glory which I have given myself, for I loved myself before the foundation of the world"?

So, we begin to see that in order to understand the writings of a given author, it is necessary to not take a single quotation from him in a vacuum and then interpret his whole message based upon that one sentence (and a badly mistranslated version of that sentence at that).

Who wrote the "Gospel of John"?

The "Gospel of John" is popularly believed by the majority of regular church-goers to be the work of the apostle John the son of Zebedee. There is a serious doubt as to who wrote the book.

In the dictionary of the Bible by John Mckenzie we read
"A. Feuillet notes that authorship here may be taken loosely."
Such claims are based on such verses as 21:24:
"This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true."?

Did the apostle John write this about himself? Also see 21:20, 13:23, 19:26, 20:2, 21:7, and 21:20-23. The "disciple who Jesus loved" according to the Church is John himself, but the author of this gospel speaks of him as a different person.

Further, The Gospel of John was written at or near Ephesus between the years 110 and 115 (some say 95-100) of the Christian era. John of Zebedee was beheaded by Agrippa I in the year 44 CE, long before the fourth Gospel was written. Did the Holy Ghost "inspire" the apostle John's ghost to write this gospel sixty years after he was killed? .

In other words, what we have here is a gospel which is popularly believed to have been written by the apostle John, but which in fact was not written by him. In fact no one really knows for certain who wrote this gospel.

My next post will be on "we" in the Quran

@ 4 get me,

PSALM 2 V 12

Sorry for stressing you to quote the versions for me. I will not be requiring you to do same again.

Posted by 4 get me
Psalm 2:12 - KJV
"Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him."

LITV
"Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, and you perish from the way, when His wrath is kindled but a little. Oh the blessings of all those who flee to Him for refuge!"

Dear brother, this is what I have in NEW LIVING TRANSLATION

V12: submit to God's royal son or he will become angry and you will be destroyed in the midst of your pursuit -  for his anger can flare up in an instant.But what joy for all who find protection in him.

Read from the beginning. It was David speaking about those that do not believed in him.It has no relationship with Jesus. It is because you see the God's royal son, David was not the only being referred to as God's son. we have lots of of examples in your bible. Read the above verse very well, do the verse in any have anything to do with Jesus? Did jesus ever destroy the jews that didnt do his wish, he couldnt do anything when he was accused of proclaiming himself as king and also not allowing Jews to pay tribute to Caesar.

Did he get annoy to the extent of destroying the jews and were the jews destroyed? Nothing like that

Brother, the above speaks of nobody else than David. And the verse is in accordance with the war fought then.

Posted by 4 get me
These are not the only versions of the English translations I use in my study; but they have been very helpful in as far as the original sense of the manuscripts are concerned. As you can see, both Psa. 2:12 and Isa. 9:6 are pointing to the Messiah.

The verses have no relationship with Jesus.
The book of Psalm was refering to David while Isaiah made reference to Prophet Muhammed (saw).

Hold on for the last post on john 1v1

@ 4 get me,

Posted by 4 get me
It is no wonder that you drum up claims of having been once a Christian, and yet sound so distant from Biblical teachings. I was going to ignore your request. However, I'll just humble myself and pay heed to my friend sitting beside me.

You dont have to ignore unless you have no answers. If you likewise resorts to ignoring question, I wont hesitate to do same. W are all learning here, so no issue of ignoring questions.

ISAIAH 9 V6

Isaiah 9:6 - KJV
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Isaiah 9:6 - LITV
"For a Child is born; to us a Son is given; and the government is on His shoulder; and His name is called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Let me add from 7: of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David and upon his kingdom, to order it and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of host will perform this.

Having done the above, let me break the verse for you

Government shall be on his shoulder

Did jesus ever rule his people? He was never allowed.
Was he king?

John 18v33-37: , then pilate entered into the judgment hall again and called jesus and said unto him, 'art thou the king of the jews'? Jesus answered, "my KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD. if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight that I should not be delivered to the jews BUT NOW IS MY KINGDOM NOT FROM THENCE.Pilate therefore said unto him, 'art thou A KING THEN?' Jesus answered, 'thou sayest that I am a king,

He was never king and he never ruled, as a result, the above prophesy is not for him.

Wonderful

He was not the only one to be accorded the word 'wonderful' .All prophets are wonderful. They all came with miracles and we learnt that Jesus said he couldnt do anything by himself

John 5v30: , i can of mine do nothing.

So he is not the wonderful referred to here.

Counsellor.

The prophesy is not for him as we read jesus telling his disciples that he needed to go so as allow room for the COMFORTER TO COME. (john 16v5-7).

He was never allowed to talk, as a result of this, he told them that it was necessary for him to go so that the comforter would come (the last prophet) and 'when he come, he would tell you all things and guide you into all truth'.
Jesus was never a counsellor.

The Mighty God

He was not the only one being referred to as God. Mind you, small 'g' is supposed to be used in John 1v1 but never mind I will still talk on that. Moses too was made god for Pharaoh. If you dont know, one of the thieves name crucificted together with jesus is called JESUS BARABAS. meaning that he was another god. Jesus was never a God and will never be.

[The Prince of Peace."

Is jesus really prince of peace? lets read the below verses

Mathew 10v34: 'do not think that I HAVE COME TO MAKE PEACE ON EARTH? I HAVE NOT COME TO BRING PEACE BUT A SWORD!!!!!!. For I have come to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER.

Luke 12v49: ' I CAME TO CAST FIRE UPON THE EARTH AND WOULD THAT IT WERE ALREADY KINDLED, DO YOU THINK THAT I HAVE COME TO GIVE PEACE ON EARTH? NO. I TELL YOU, BUT RATHER DIVISION FOR FROM HENCEFORTH in one house there will be five divided, three against two, and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother.

hmmmmmmmmmm. Did you read all that. So the above prophesy couldnt have been for Jesus.