₦airaland Forum

@KAG,

Do you have any proof to debunk the claim that jesus was neither killed nor crucified?


@ lafile,

At the end of the thread, we will surely know whether jesus was killed and crucified.

@babyosis

Posted by babyosis,
after the 3rd caliph burnt the rest and came up with his own version?

Uthman was the 3rd Caliph, hope you know that.

Now go to the link below where you will see the Quran in the relics room of al-Hussein mosque.

You will also see images of the original Noble Quran's entire compilation and entire original Manuscripts!

You will also see more images of the Original Noble Quran's Manuscripts at:
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Mss/

Secondly, I told one of your brothers ( 4 get me) to give me a verses you see in one Quran but not present in other just like we are having in the bible and if you can do that, I will agree wholeheartedly that the Quran is incomplete.

Salam

@babyosis

Posted by babyosis,
after the 3rd caliph burnt the rest and came up with his own version?

Uthman was the 3rd Caliph, hope you know that.

Now go to the link below where you will see the Quran in the relics room of al-Hussein mosque.

You will also see images of the original Noble Quran's entire compilation and entire original Manuscripts!

You will also see more images of the Original Noble Quran's Manuscripts at:
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Mss/

Salam

@ trinity

my tiny sister.

blundering babs,

my yeye brother,

sontin dey do you! you obviously have nothing better to do than to sit here and try to antagonize people all day. get a life.

if i take you on you will disappear just as you did when people started calling you "i am waiting". i am not even tempered like shahan.

you are the only one here who will ever accuse me of not answering questions. queer-queer time waster!

olodo tundebabs!

At times we resorted to name calling in order to drive home one's point. Its part of the game, u hear?

See person wey sabi book. In my last post, I never said that you have not been answering questions ( or you dey sleep while reading my post), all I asked from you is to give me one of the questions I have not answered.

So lets how tempered you are.

Olodo, common simple understanding, she lacked.

You have been promoted to "never answering questions" tiny lady.

@babyosis,

Did you mean hyperactive?

@ 4 get me,

I have allowed the matter to die but for your trying to play smart, I  have to bring it up again

Posted by 4 get me
In this roundabout often repeated issue of yours, bari_kade has roundly laid the matter to rest. He conclusively pointed out the issues and showed the circumstances in the narratives of the Gospels; even pointing out your error in mixing up the timeline of Peter's denials. The Gospels clearly bear out the same meaning, and the seeming difficulty is simply as a result of confusing the perspectives from which the writers penned their accounts.
   
Now you said he explained everything, lt me bring out some verses for you.

 Where was the denial made?

         King James Version

Mathew 26v71: …and he was gone into the Porch
Mark 14v68-69: and he went out into the Porch
Luke 22v55-58: …in the midst of the hall.

Did you call the above same? Porch and in the midst of the hall.

         Revised Standard Version

Mathew 26v71:and when he went out to the Porch
Mark 14v68: …and he went out into the Gateway
Luke 22v55: …in the middle of the Courtyard

Did you call the above same too? Porch, Gateway and Courtyard

         Good News Bible

Mathew 26v71: went out to the entrance of the Courtyard
Mark 14v68: went out into the Passage
Luke 22v55: …center of the Courtyard

Did you call the above same too? went out to the entrance of the Courtyard, went out into the Passage and centre of the Courtyrad!!
                         
 To whom was the last denial made

                                        King James Version

Mathew 26v73: and after a while came unto him THEY THAT STOOD BY and said to Peter surely thou also art one of them, for THY SPEECH BETRAYETH THEE
Mark 14v70: ….and a little farther, THEY THAT STOOD BY said again to Peter, ‘surely, thou art one of them. For thou art one of them. For thou art a Galilean, AND THY SPEECH AGREED THERETO

Both mathew and mark agreed that it happened to bystanders while Luke said it was to another man and you called that same. To you does one person mean the same as many people?  

                  To whom was the last denial made

Revised Standard Version

Mathew 26v73[b]: to bystanders[/b]…”for your accent betrays you”
Mark 14v70: to bystanders… “for you are a Galilean”
Luke 22v59: to another man (not bystanders like his friends) … ‘for he is a Galilean’

Mathew and Mark both agreed that it was to bystanders but Luke said it was to another man (a person and not bystanders), yet you said they are all same.

                 Good News Bible

Mathew 26v73: to the men standing
Mark 14v70: to bystanders
Luke 22v59: to ‘another man’

Mathew and mark agreed that it was to bystanders while Luke said it was to another man and you called that same.

A person and many people can never be the same. It is very glaring they are contradicting.

Posted by 4 get me
As examples, you find the human ancestry of Jesus Christ traced in both Matthew and Luke - and yet with different perspectives. Matthew traces His genealogy back to Abraham as the patriarch of the covenant people; while Luke traces it back to Adam as the head of the created who seek God - and as such demonstrating Christ's true Humanity.

Where did you see that? Now compare Mathew 1v18 with Luke 3v23 where the genealogy was erroneously attributed to jesus instead of Joseph. Read the names and compare the two. You will also read that mathew's stopped at 28 while Luke's list contained 43 names!!

Posted by 4 get me
Mark and John did not trace His genealogy except making references to His family lineage as a true Jew. In the former, Jesus is presented as the divine Servant who perfects the will of God; while John presents His true Person as God Himself who comes to redeem man.

Thank God you admitted that Jesus is also a servant of God.

Posted by 4 get me
It is in the same character that the Old Testament prophets variously describe the Person, work and events surrounding the Messiah. David called Him "the Son" (Psalm 2:12); Isaiah says His name shall be called "the mighty God" (Isa. 9:6); Jeremiah however intones that He shall be called "THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS." (Jer. 23:6).

This the exact thing I have been asking you in other thread that you should clarify Pslam 2v12 and Isaiah 9v6

This is what we have in Psalm 2v12: , the Lord said to me, 'you are my son. Today have I become your father (NLT)

My dear brother, the above referred to David. Start the reading from the beginning and you will see that it was David that was talking. He was saying what the Lord told him. He continued by saying that the Lord told him that, "You are my son. Today have I become your father"

The above does not in any have anything to do with Jesus. It was David that was speaking and telling us what God told him. Read from the begining for better understanding.

Posted by 4 get me
It is in the same character that the Old Testament prophets variously describe the Person, work and events surrounding the Messiah. David called Him "the Son" (Psalm 2:12); Isaiah says His name shall be called "the mighty God" (Isa. 9:6); Jeremiah however intones that He shall be called "THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS." (Jer. 23:6).

I cant help laughing at your wrong interpretations. I have always tell you to please try to give me the verse in full. This is the verse from New Living Translation

Jeremiah 23v5-6: for the time is coming says the Lord. when I will place a righteous Branch on King David's throne. He will be a king who rules with wisdom. He will do what is just and right throughout the land. and this is his name: THE LORD IS OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS> In that day Judah will be saved.

The above verse is referring to SOLOMON. Was Jesus King, He was never king and he himself said so. Did he rule anywhere? The Jews never allowed him and that is the reson for Deutronomy 18 v 18, john 16v7 etc referring to the LAST PROPHET, PROPHET MUHAMMED [SAW]). We learnt that SOLOM RULED with WISDOM. Is jesus name not Emmanuel? How come the other name you gave him, "THE LORD IS RIGHTEOUSNESS" .

Posted by 4 get me
However, when it comes to the Qur'an, it is actually pitiful and sad indeed that the deity there reveals a verse and then "abrogates" it. That is as much as saying that the Qur'an was neither inspired by the true God whose Word remains unabrogated; nor was the Qur'an perfect as is claimed by Muslims. Abrogating any verse renders the rest completely untrustworthy of a divine Revelation; because that simply means that the Qur'an has been editted, re-editted, cancelled (or revoked - basic meaning of abrogate) in some places, and incomplete as earlier Muslims testify.

Never mind, in other thread tagged "abrogation", You know Allah told us the reason for the abrogation, but mind you, Jesus said he never came to abrogate any law. Hold your breath till I WILL COME UP WITH SHOCKING ABROGATION FROM THE BIBLE.

Posted by 4 get me
[b]It is interesting to note also that the Qur'an categorically states that the Gospel was given to Jesus Christ. Please babs787, without much ado, can you present to us that original Gospel that the Qur'an claims the "Allah" of Islam revealed? What exactly does it say and how does it differ from John 1:1 and Mark 1:1?? Is the Injil in the Qur'an part of the "abrogated verses" of Muhammad's "Allah"?

All will be answered in your raised questions

Salam till I come your way

@ 4 get me,

I have allowed the matter to die but for your trying to play smart, I  have to bring it up again

Posted by 4 get me
In this roundabout often repeated issue of yours, bari_kade has roundly laid the matter to rest. He conclusively pointed out the issues and showed the circumstances in the narratives of the Gospels; even pointing out your error in mixing up the timeline of Peter's denials. The Gospels clearly bear out the same meaning, and the seeming difficulty is simply as a result of confusing the perspectives from which the writers penned their accounts.
   
Now you said he explained everything, lt me bring out some verses for you.

 Where was the denial made?

         King James Version

Mathew 26v71: …and he was gone into the Porch
Mark 14v68-69: and he went out into the Porch
Luke 22v55-58: …in the midst of the hall.

Did you call the above same? Porch and in the midst of the hall.

         Revised Standard Version

Mathew 26v71:and when he went out to the Porch
Mark 14v68: …and he went out into the Gateway
Luke 22v55: …in the middle of the Courtyard

Did you call the above same too? Porch, Gateway and Courtyard

         Good News Bible

Mathew 26v71: went out to the entrance of the Courtyard
Mark 14v68: went out into the Passage
Luke 22v55: …center of the Courtyard

Did you call the above same too? went out to the entrance of the Courtyard, went out into the Passage and centre of the Courtyrad!!
                         
 To whom was the last denial made

                                        King James Version

Mathew 26v73: and after a while came unto him THEY THAT STOOD BY and said to Peter surely thou also art one of them, for THY SPEECH BETRAYETH THEE
Mark 14v70: ….and a little farther, THEY THAT STOOD BY said again to Peter, ‘surely, thou art one of them. For thou art one of them. For thou art a Galilean, AND THY SPEECH AGREED THERETO

Both mathew and mark agreed that it happened to bystanders while Luke said it was to another man and you called that same. To you does one person mean the same as many people?  

                  To whom was the last denial made

Revised Standard Version

Mathew 26v73[b]: to bystanders[/b]…”for your accent betrays you”
Mark 14v70: to bystanders… “for you are a Galilean”
Luke 22v59: to another man (not bystanders like his friends) … ‘for he is a Galilean’

Mathew and Mark both agreed that it was to bystanders but Luke said it was to another man (a person and not bystanders), yet you said they are all same.

                 Good News Bible

Mathew 26v73: to the men standing
Mark 14v70: to bystanders
Luke 22v59: to ‘another man’

Mathew and mark agreed that it was to bystanders while Luke said it was to another man and you called that same.

A person and many people can never be the same. It is very glaring they are contradicting.
Posted by 4 get me
As examples, you find the human ancestry of Jesus Christ traced in both Matthew and Luke - and yet with different perspectives. Matthew traces His genealogy back to Abraham as the patriarch of the covenant people; while Luke traces it back to Adam as the head of the created who seek God - and as such demonstrating Christ's true Humanity.

Where did you see that? Now compare Mathew 1v18 with Luke 3v23 where the genealogy was erroneously attributed to jesus instead of Joseph. Read the names and compare the two. You will also read that mathew's stopped at 28 while Luke's list contained 43 names!!
Posted by 4 get me
Mark and John did not trace His genealogy except making references to His family lineage as a true Jew. In the former, Jesus is presented as the divine Servant who perfects the will of God; while John presents His true Person as God Himself who comes to redeem man.

Thank God you admitted that Jesus is also a servant of God.

Posted by 4 get me
It is in the same character that the Old Testament prophets variously describe the Person, work and events surrounding the Messiah. David called Him "the Son" (Psalm 2:12); Isaiah says His name shall be called "the mighty God" (Isa. 9:6); Jeremiah however intones that He shall be called "THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS." (Jer. 23:6).

This the exact thing I have been asking you in other thread that you should clarify Pslam 2v12 and Isaiah 9v6

This is what we have in Psalm 2v12: , the Lord said to me, 'you are my son. Today have I become your father (NLT)

My dear brother, the above referred to David. Start the reading from the beginning and you will see that it was David that was talking. He was saying what the Lord told him. He continued by saying that the Lord told him that, "You are my son. Today have I become your father"

The above does not in any have anything to do with Jesus. It was David that was speaking and telling us what God told him. Read from the begining for better understanding.

Posted by 4 get me
It is in the same character that the Old Testament prophets variously describe the Person, work and events surrounding the Messiah. David called Him "the Son" (Psalm 2:12); Isaiah says His name shall be called "the mighty God" (Isa. 9:6); Jeremiah however intones that He shall be called "THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS." (Jer. 23:6).

I cant help laughing at your wrong interpretations. I have always tell you to please try to give me the verse in full. This is the verse from New Living Translation

Jeremiah 23v5-6: for the time is coming says the Lord. when I will place a righteous Branch on King David's throne. He will be a king who rules with wisdom. He will do what is just and right throughout the land. and this is his name: THE LORD IS OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS> In that day Judah will be saved.

The above verse is referring to SOLOMON. Was Jesus King, He was never king and he himself said so. Did he rule anywhere? The Jews never allowed him and that is the reson for Deutronomy 18 v 18, john 16v7 etc referring to the LAST PROPHET, PROPHET MUHAMMED [SAW]). We learnt that SOLOM RULED with WISDOM. Is jesus name not Emmanuel? How come the other name you gave him, "THE LORD IS RIGHTEOUSNESS" .

Posted by 4 get me
However, when it comes to the Qur'an, it is actually pitiful and sad indeed that the deity there reveals a verse and then "abrogates" it. That is as much as saying that the Qur'an was neither inspired by the true God whose Word remains unabrogated; nor was the Qur'an perfect as is claimed by Muslims. Abrogating any verse renders the rest completely untrustworthy of a divine Revelation; because that simply means that the Qur'an has been editted, re-editted, cancelled (or revoked - basic meaning of abrogate) in some places, and incomplete as earlier Muslims testify.

Never mind, in other thread tagged "abrogation", You know Allah told us the reason for the abrogation, but mind you, Jesus said he never came to abrogate any law. Hold your breath till I WILL COME UP WITH SHOCKING ABROGATION FROM THE BIBLE.

Posted by 4 get me
[b]It is interesting to note also that the Qur'an categorically states that the Gospel was given to Jesus Christ. Please babs787, without much ado, can you present to us that original Gospel that the Qur'an claims the "Allah" of Islam revealed? What exactly does it say and how does it differ from John 1:1 and Mark 1:1?? Is the Injil in the Qur'an part of the "abrogated verses" of Muhammad's "Allah"?

All will be answered in your raised questions

Salam till I come your way

@backslider,

Dear brother,

Thanks so much for the wonderful post. I perused the bible but did not see where jesus said that

1. He is the lord and personal saviour
2. I didn’t not see where he says that salvation can be got through his blood
3. I also learnt that jesus was neither killed nor crucified.

Since I have not seen all those, I beg you to let us leave false doctrines and face the truth which is Islam. Jesus said that “what shall it profit a man who gain the whole world and lose his soul”?

Whenever I remember the Judgement day (coming up in my next write up) and the punishment for the unbelievers, I always shed tears for unbelievers, if only Christians and the the like will accept the Holy Quran and the LAST PROPHET.

Quran 22v2: o mankind, fear your Lord! The convulsion of the hour of judgement will be a terrible thing. The day you shall see every suckling mother forget her baby and every pregnant female delivering her unformed pregnancy, you shall see mankind as if intoxicated.

Quran 80v34-37: that day shall a man flee from his own brother, mother, father, from his wife and children; each of them that Day, will have enough concern (of his own) to make him indifferent to the others.

Nobody will dies except that he is shown his place in Hell or Paradise. Everybody will suffer the pang of death in proportion for the quality of his deeds. While it will be light for the believers, it will be hard in unbelievers.

Also brother, you should fear the day when man is eventually laid in his grave and covered with the earth, the soul is restored back to the body and two black angels appear with an iron rod asking you three questions:
1. who is your God?
2. what do you know about Prophet Muhammed?
3. What is your religion?

If someone fails, he will be beaten severely with the iron rods. His cries will be heard by all except men and jinns.

Allah then said that if you don’t know the true and real religion.

Quran 30v30: So set (O Muhammed [saw]) your face towards the religion (of pure Islamic monotheism) Hanif (worship none but Allah alone) with which He has created mankind, no change let there be in Khalg Ilah (i.e. the religion of Allah) that is the straight religion but most men know not.

The above verse is saying that the true religion is the religion that is like the creation of manking (including all living things). If you see any religion that is like creation of mankind, that is the religion before God. For example, men in Africa are having 2 eyes, one head etc likewise those in Europe. Dogs in Asia have four legs likewise those in America. Etc Any religion in which the way its practiced in a particular place is not different from another, that is the true religion but MOST MEN DO NOT KNOW.

In Islam, thought we have sunnis and shittes fighting but their fighting is more or less that of a civil war. Its just like saying the Fulanis and the Hausas in the Northern part of Nigeria. Despite the fighting, we still recite the same Quran, face the same Qiblah, fast in the same month, pray the same five times daily prayer etc but in christianty, Jehovah witness are saying jesus was tied to a stake and not crucified, witness do not believe in Christmas. Deeper life too, they do leave house for Christians and retreat to their camp because of this same Christmas, catholics believe that mary is the mother of God while others do not believe that and do not believe in the miracle of oyakhilomes, Bonnkes etc. some early christiand never believed that jesus died for anybody’s sin.

Quran 3v85: and whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted from him and in the hereafter, he will be one of the losers.

I don’t want you to be one of the losers. Lets leave pride and face reality.
Quran 5v3: this day, I have perfected your religion for you and chosen Islam for you as your religion.

When we check the Quran, we read that all prophets that came before the last prophet were muslims.

Quran 42 v 13: He has ordained for you the same religion which he ordained FOR NOAH, and that which we have revealed to you (O MUHAMMED [SAW]) and that which we ORDAINED FOR MOSES and JESUS saying you should ESTABLISH RELIGION and MAKE NO DIVISION IN IT. intolerable for the Mushrikin is that (Islamic monotheism) to which you (O MUHAMMED [SAW] )call them. Allah chooses FOR HIMSELF WHOM HE WILLS and GUIDES UNTO HIMSELF WHO TURNS TO HIM IN REPENTANCE AND IN OBEDIENCE.

Lets read if really other prophets practiced Islam

Quran 3v67: Abraham was not a jew nor yet a Christian, but he was true in faith and bowed his will to Allah (which is Islam) and he joined no God with Allah

To Noah
Quran 10v72: I have been commanded to be of those who submit to Allah’s will (In Islam)

To Moses
Quran 10v84: o my people. If you do (really) believe in Allah, then in Him put your trust if you are muslims.

Quran 2v128: Abraham and Ismail said: o Lord, make of us muslims, bowing to Thy (Will) and of our progeny a Muslim people.

To Joseph
Quran 12v101: (Joseph prayed). Creator of the heavens and the earth, thou art my protector in this world and in the hereafter, take thou my soul (at death) as one submitting to Thy will (as a muslim) and unite me with the righteous.

To the disciples of jesus
Quran 27v44: and behold! I inspired the disciples (of jesus) to have faith in me and mine apostle: they said, ‘we have faith and be witness that we bow to Allah as Muslims.

Quran 15v19: we have without doubt sent the message (Quran) and we will assuredly guard it (from corruption)

Quran 85v21-22: Nay, this is a Glorious Quran (inscribed) in a guarded tablet.

Quran 4v150-152: Those who DENY ALLAH AND HIS APOSTLES and (those who) WISH TO SEPARATE ALLAH FROM HIS APOSTLES, saying ‘we believe in some but REJECT OTHERS and (those who) WISH TO TAKE A COURSE MIDWAY, they are in truth (equally) unbelievers; and we have prepoared for unbelievers a humiliating punishment. To those who believe in Allah and his apostles and make NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN ANY OF THE APOSTLES, we shall soon give their (due) rewards, for Allah is Oft-forgiving.

Dear brother a word is enough for the wise.

Islam is the Noah’s ark of Today, embark on it and be saved.

MAA SALAM.

@backslider,

Dear brother,

I will try to respond to your beautiful preaching with my own too Insha Allah very soon.

Maa salam

@4 get,

Can you bring out the verses that contradicted each other?

Secondly, I wonder why you people do rush to mention the issue of Sunnis and shittes.

Despite the fighting,

We still recite the same quran
We pray the same number of times
We recite the same Surahs
We face the same direction
We are being binded by the 5 pillars of Islam

etc,
Can we apply those to christianity too

Now from one of my posts

Good News Bible

Mathew 26v73: to the men standing
Mark 14v70: to bystanders
Luke 22v59: to ‘another man’
Mathew and mark agreed that it was to bystanders while Luke said it was to another man. Lets check another version again

New Living Translation

Mathew 26v73: to some bystanders
Mark 14v70: to some bystanders
Luke 22v59: to someone

Mathew and mark both agreed that it was to bystanders while Luke said it was to someone (a single person and not bystanders)
Still we check another to see if they will agree

Gideon Bible

Mathew 26v73: to those who stood by…”your speech betrays you’
Mark 14v70: to those who stood by…”your speech shows”
Luke 22v59: to a man
Mathew and Mark both agreed that it was to bystanders while Luke said it was to a man

Do we those agree. Though in one Quran, you may see a word being used differently from another (synonyms) Quran but will still give you the same meaning.

Do we apply the same to the above?

@trini girl,

Posted by: trini_girl  
Insert Quote
babs why r u constantly trying to relegate people to pay attention to you on other threads, but never answering anyone's questions directly?

attention seeker AND escapist.

My mumu sister,

Dummy trinity girl.

It seems you have something up your sleeves.Are you that blind to the extent of not seeing how your sisters have been following me up and down with those questions.

And if may ask, are you referring to only babyosis and shahan as people or you are inclusive?

My mumu sister, which question havent I answered? Give it to me.

You have also been promoted to "never answering questions"

SO LETS SEE THE UNASWERED QUESTIONS OOOO DUMMY SISTER

@backslider,

as you are inviting me to christ, am also inviting you to Islam.

I have explained in all the way I could.

Am telling you, the Quran were not arranged according to revelation. Mind you, we have the Mecca surahs and also Medinah surahs. You cant know more that I do.

Posted by: Backslider
But I have made you look at your scripture and I can percieve your heart is beating relax brother.

Far from that brother.

Posted by: Backslider
If a number is mention 2 to create

Quran 41: 9 Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?  not four !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quran 41: 10 He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…

After Verse 9 you have Verse 10 it even explained what he was doing for those 4 days he was puting finishing touches like a Bricklayer doing plaster and Nourishing the Earth bros admit it this is a Fundamental Error!!

You are just very funny. Am even laughing here.  
Now the verse 9 says earth was created in two days. Here it was not stated that mountains and other blessings were created.

But Allah continues in other verse (10) that he created mountains and bestowing blessings for another 2 days, making four days.

He created earth in 2 days and mountains in another 2 days making 4 days in totality.

Allah created Heaven and Earth in six days.

The verses of 41:9-12 speak of overlapping actions in spans of four and two days each.

The adverbs are the keys to understanding this. The verses of 11 and 12 use the adverbs "thummah" and "fa" which imply consecutiveness of action.

Neither of these two, however, are used in verse 10 (the only one which mentions four days) which instead uses the adverb "wa" implying parallel, or "overlapping" actions.

In other words, the grammar tells us that the four days mentioned in 10 are a continuation of the two mentioned in verse 9. The four days of "measuring the earth's sustenance" refers to the two days of the creation of the earth in addition to the two days of the "spreading out of the earth's features".

Brother, even Eisten, the great mathematician cannot explain more than the way I have done.


To the other question
Posted by: Backslider
Some questions for you here

Was Abraham's generation the same as Muhammed's (saw)
Was Moses' generation the same as Abraham's

You keep Shifting the Post this is not fair GENERATION AND HIS PEOPLE are different,  Moses and Abraham are from the same peoples!!!##$#@@#$#@@@@@@?!!!!!!

Dear brother. The prophets had different generations and different people. There is always up thousand years before the coming of another prophet (after the demise of one). So, the people of the first prophet would have perished before the next prophet.

Or in the bible, can you bring out someone that met Abraham and Also Moses?

If the people of Abraham were the same as that of Moses, there wouldnt be any need introducing God to them. But we all know that during Moses' time, it was the Egyptian that became muslims after moses. They never believed in God.

Now you said Abraham and Moses were from the same people, can you explain that please?

Salam

@mrpataki,

You will never stop being ignorant.

You expected to see all that in the Quran. Common, the holy Quran is not like the bible where you have letters written to another person, sayings of prophets, etc. The Quran comprises only the word of Allah.

I gave you those from one of the wars fought by the prophet (saw). You read how christians were treated.

I even challenged your brother to give me a verse that says 'christians' should be killed but rather he gave me verses on believers likewise your sister.

You may give me a verse that says' christians should be killed"

@backslider,

Soon you will see my detailed explanation on abrogation.

I would have replied but been very busy.

Salam

@babyosis and shahan,

4 get me's questions are being attended to in another thread.

Take care

@ 4 get me

Once again, I saw your new post.

Please try giving me the verses in full from your bible and tell me the version you are using. Also, tell me the reason for quoting Psalm 2v12 and Isaiah 9v6 and who they both refer to.

I will respond to your questions but let me get where you are going. John 1v1 is well known but let me know the reason for the other two.

Answer my questions below

Now if they say, say "4 get me was beside gbade".

1.Do we say they are one being?

2. What does beside mean to you?

3. Why was trinity not preached among early prophets like Moses, Abraham, Noah, etc and if preached, let me have the verses from your bible (Old Testament)?

Ponder on my questions and let me have your response.If you do say my questions above do not need response so also yours will be treated despite the fact that I have answers for you.

Till I come your way

Cheers

@ trini girl,

Thanks for the post.

I never go against the contents or whatever but all am saying is that if all the bibles have been written according to the original manuscripts, we wouldnt be seeing what we are having today.

Once again, thanks for the post and may God bless.

@ 4 get me

I just finished chatting with a witness friend of mine and he told me that I shouldnt believe you that they (witnesses), are the one having their bible written according to the original manuscript.

But never mind, I will not base my response on jehovah witnesses but will be direct.

Am cooking your response and when I am through, I will serve you real hot

Mind you, dont salivate, wait till it comes.

Attend to my questions till I come your way.

Another question,

Why was trinity not preached among early prophets?

Take care till I come your way.

@4 GET me,

I can see that the below have proven the same set of questions you have been asking me. I also told you to create a fresh thread for your questions but you declined. Dont worry, its time to answer your questions.

Before I go on, kindly answer these simple questions.

Now if they say, say "4 get me was beside gbade".

1.Do we say they are one being?

2. What does beside mean to you?

Something beside another cannot be that same thing.

Ponder on my questions till I come with detailed response

Cheers

@bindex,

You have been posting senseless posts all these while. Say out whatever is in your mind or you allow it perish within you.

@4 get me & mrpataki,

Posted by: mrpataki
Insert Quote
@ 4get_me,
Thanks a lot there for the explanation. Wanted him to make the error, which he actually did there.
God bless you greatly for those scriptures.


What error are you referring to?

Make sure you do not contradict each other just like davidylan and shahan did.

Posted by 4get_me
Worship encompasses prayer, praise, singing, offering and the believer's lifestyle.

You are right my brother. But when it comes to prayer, it must be nothing but SOLAT.All the activities mentioned above precede prayer.

We muslims too praise Allah e.g The recitation of
Allahuma Solih Ala-Muhammad, Wa Ali Muhammad,
Laila Ila Lahu Muhammad Rosululah
Subhana Lah

Etc,

When it comes to prayer, there must be silence coupled with praying to God face down (Sujud). Bible authors tried as much as possible to remove all the acts pertaining to Muslims' worship but couldnt change everything.

Posted by: 4get_me
"Give unto the LORD the glory due unto his name: bring an offering, and come before him: worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness." (I Chron. 16:29)

The above says you should worship God but not with musical instruments

Posted by: 4get_me
"And Jehoshaphat bowed his head with his face to the ground: and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem fell before the LORD, worshipping the LORD. And the Levites, of the children of the Kohathites, and of the children of the Korhites, stood up to praise the LORD God of Israel with a loud voice on high." (II Chron. 20:18-19)

Here, they prayed and worship God just like muslims, bowing their heads with their faces to the ground (Sujud) and later stood up to praise God just like muslims do after every prayer.

Posted by: 4get_me
"And all the congregation worshipped, and the singers sang, and the trumpeters sounded: and all this continued until the burnt offering was finished." (II Chron. 29:28)

The above activities were not done at the same time hence the word "and". The activities follow in sequential order. They first worshipped, then sang followed by the blowing of the trumpets.

Posted by: 4get_me
"All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name. Selah." (Psa. 66:4)

Did you notice that worship precedes singing?

Posted by: 4get_me
"I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name." (Psa. 138:2)

Did you see in the above that they were both differentiated (worshipping and praising)?

Posted by: 4get_me
"And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast" (John 12:20).

Lets see from the bible how they worshipped and prayed to God just like muslims

Mathew 26v39: And going a little farther he fell on his face, (just like muslims)
Mathew 4v9-10: , All these I will give you if you will fall down and worship me.
v10: Then jesus said to him, Begone, Satan! for it is written " You shall worship your Lord God and only him shall you serve"

It is noted in the above that Jesus had to rebuke Satan when he told him to bow down and worship him. Both of them knew that bowing dow is only the act of worshipping God just like the muslims.

1st corinthians 14v25: The secrets of the heart are disclosed; and so, FALLING ON HIS FACE, HE WILL WORSHIP GOD and declare that God is really among you.

The above shows that they prayed just like muslims.

Now let us go to SOLAT IN THE BIBLE

Nehemiah 8v1-6 :
1. And all the people gathered as one man into the square before the water gate

[Getting set for congregational prayer (solat) ]

2. And Ezra the priest brought the law before the assembly, both men and women and all who could hear with understanding on the first day of the seventh month

(Just like when Iman brings out the Holy Quran)

3. And he read from it facing the square before the water gate from early morning until midday in the presence of the men and women and those who could understand, and the ears of all the people were attentive to the book of the law

(the book of the law is just like the Quran. He reads out to the congregation just like Imams do)

4. And Ezra the scribe stood on a wooden pulpit which they had made for the purpose; and beside him stood Mattithiah, Shema, Annaiah Uriah, Hilkiah, and a Maaseiah on his right hand and Pedaiah, Mishael, Malchijah, Hashum, Hashbaddanah, Zechariah and Meshullah on his left

(Just like when muslims are getting set for Solat hence the line up and the arrangement from the right to the left)

5. And Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people, for he was above all the people and when he opened it all the people stood.

(Note: there is no sitting on chairs like the christians do here. Ezra just like Imam wants to recite from the book known to muslims as "Khutbah"

6. And Ezra blessed the Lord, the great God, and all the people answered, AMEN, AMEN,

(just like praising Allah first followed by the recitation of Surah Fatiah in which at the end of the recitation, muslims will say AMIN)

I continue with the verse 6

6. Lifting up their hands and they BOWED THEIR HEADS AND WORSHIPPED THE LORD with THEIR FACES TO THE GROUND.

(Lifting up their hands just like when muslims say Allah Akbar and proceeds to Rukuh and finally to Sujud [bowing their heads with their face down].

If you 4get me, pataki and others will not deceive yourselves, Solat is from God and will accept the fact that what they did here, is nothing short of Solat. Any meaning you may try to give the above will go other way thereby contradicting the verse. If you want to say its not Solat, tell me what they all did in the above verse.

Exodus 34v8: , And moses made haste to bow his head towards the earth and worship before the Lord.

It has been established that solat had been in exitence before Prophet Muhammed (saw). The only difference is that, it was during his time (as a result of the night journey) that the religion was perfected.i.e, he was given 5 times daily prayer.

It is high time you accepted the truth which is ISLAM because it is the only religion before God.

Maa Salam

@GBADE.X

Add this verse too

8.
Acts 10v34-35: Then Peter opened his mouth, but in every nation, he that feared him (God) and worketh righteousness is accepted with him (God).


Yet no mention of getting salvation through Jesus.

@babyosis,

The verses you quoted were revealed during the wars with the unbelievers.

My sister, It is very glaring that you dont understand Jihad. Jihad encompasses all striving towards Islam and not fighting alone.

Doing good is also Jihad
Marriage is also Jihad
Dawah is also jihad
etc,

Now read the below, the same way I gave it out to my dear brother backslider on the treatment of Christians during the prophet's time

Around the 4th year of Hijrah, the Holy Prophet granted to the monks of the Monastry of St. Catherine, near Mount Sinai, his liberal charter by which they secured for the Christians noble and generous privileges and immunities. He undertook himself and enjoined his followers, to protect the Christians, to defend their churches and the residences of their priests and to guard them from all injuries.

They were not to be unfairly taxed; no bishop was to be driven out of his diocese; nor Christian was to be forced to reject his religion; no monk was to be expelled from his Monastry; no pilgrim was to be stopped from his pilgrimage; nor were the Christian churches to be pulled down for the sake of building mosques or houses for the Muslims.

Christian women married to Muslims were to enjoy their own religion and not to be subjected to compulsion or annoyance of any kind. If the Christians should stand in need of assistance for the repair of their churches or monasteries, or any other matter pertaining to their religion, the Muslims were to assist them. This was not to be considered as supporting their religion, but as simply rendering them assistance in special circumstances.

Maa Salam

@babyosis,

Where did you cull your data from?

Islam is the True and Perfect religion. And that is what Allah states precisely about Islam:

Surah 12, Ayah 40 ", That is the true religion, but most among mankind know not."

Surah 30, Ayah 30 ", That is the true religion, but most among mankind know not."

Go to Source: http://www.islamicweb.com/index.asp?folder=begin&file=population

You will also see table from where you will get the updated fact.
The above source is updated from The CIA World's Facts Book estimate of 2004.

The table does not includes many other countries that have Muslims, but no available numbers, which should make the above total number of Muslims higher than 1,524,889,114. Islam annual growth rate (1994-1995) from U.N. is 6.40%, This should make the total number of Muslims on Earth over 2.2 Billion by 2010.

The below shows the growth of Islam:

(1989-1998)
North America 25%
Africa 2.15%
Asia 12.57%
Europe 142.35%
Latin America -4.73%
Australia 257.01%

The number of the total population has been taken from The CIA World's Facts Book which can be found at: http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook

The CIA World's Facts Book was used it to verify the total number of population in every country. But since it lacks the percentage of Muslims in each country, we used another statistic located at: http://www.flash.net/~royal/country.html

In 1986, the Muslim Education Trust organization (MET) located in the United Kingdom and directed by Ghulam Sarwar, obtained the 1971 census and information given by Embassies of the respective countries in London. The 1971 census showed the Independent Muslim countries population was around 784.5 Million and the Muslim Minorities countries had around 308 Million Muslim.

As for the U.N., the Briticana Encyclopidia for 1994 and for 1995 was used to get the growth rates. Briticana took those statistics from the U.N.

The final numbers were obtained by plugging in the percentage of Muslims (taken from MET) and the number of people (taken from CIA) in each country using Microsoft Excel.

The Worlds Major Religions Changes
Growth rates taken between

World Almanac and Book of Facts, 1935
and Readers Digest Almanac and Yearbook 1983

In the last half century,

Confucianism & Taoism decrease 13%
350,600,000
305,000,000

Judaism decrease 4%
15,630,000
15,000,000

Christianity increase 47%
682,400,000
1,000,000,000

Eastern Orthodox decrease 36%
144,000,000
092,000,000

Protestant increase 57%
206,900,000
324,000,000

Catholic increase 70%
331,500,000
565,000,000

Buddhism increase 63%
150,180,000
245,000,000

Hinduism increase 117%
230,150,000
500,000,000

Shintoism increase 152%
25,000,000
63,000,000

Islam increase 235%
209,020,000
700,000,000



Islam is the Fastest Growing Religion on Earth

@gbade.x

If getting salvation is through john 14 v 1-7, explain the below verse


1.
Mathew 19v17: , And he said unto him, why callest thou me good? There is no one good but one, that is God. BUT IF THOU WILT ENTER LIFE, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.

The above verse shows that if you are able to keep the commandments (as given to moses), you shall gain paradise

2.
Mathew 18 v 3-6; And said, verily i say unto you, except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter the kingdom of God. Whosoever shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of God and who so shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

also
Mark 10v14-15: but when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased and said unto them, sufffer the little children to cometh unto me and forbid them not, for of such is the kingdom of God.

Concerning purity if children
Proverb 20v11: even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure and whether it be right.

The above verse is saying that if anyone can become sinless like children that knew nothing, they would gain paradise, yet no issue of seeing jesus before gaining paradise.

3. Jesus also told his disciples how to pray that

Luke 11v2-4; and he said unto them, when ye pray, say, OUR FATHER WHO ART IN HEAVEN, HALLOWED BE THY NAME, thy kingdom come. they will be done as in heaven, so in earth. give us this day,

Still no where of seeing jesus before gaining salvation.

4.
2nd corinthians 7v14: if my people which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then will i hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Still no mention of getting salvation through jesus.

5.
Mathew 5v19: whosoever shall break one of these commandments, and shall teach men so, he'll be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven

Note, still no mention of getting salvation through jesus but can be got
through keeping the commandments.

6.
mathew 5v20: for except your righteous exceeds the righteousness of the Scribes and the Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of God

Here, it is noted that you can gain paradise by being righteous .i.e doing good deeds.

7.

Isaiah 55v7: let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts, let him return to the Lord, that He may have mercy on him, and to our God, for He will abundantly pardon.

Still the same as above.

Etc,

Cheers

@backslider,

brother.

Am working on your last post when this one came in and as such will attend to it.

Posted by: Backslider
correction of my last post on this thread
[b]I have spent my time to Quote your own Quran that you did not even quote and You just pick and Chose. You said Abraham was not a first Muslim Oh. But he was a Muslim Abi According to your books. Was he be fore Abraham or After Abraham?

**I have spent my time to Quote your own Quran that you did not even quote and You just pick and Chose. You said Abraham was not a first Muslim Oh. But he was a Muslim Abi According to your books. Was he be fore MOSES or After MOSES?

Please take of this correction

Was Abraham's generation the same as that of Moses'?
Was Noah's generation the same as that of Muhammed?

I have answered you, you just have to read and concentrate dear brother.
All prophets except Muhammed (saw) were sent to their people. They were the first to be believers among their community. They came and preached to their people to accept Islam. I have explained below.

Happy reading

I have explained but will still explain. There is nothing like contradiction in all the verses. Now lets see all the verses

Posted by: Backslider
[b]I have spent my time to Quote your own Quran that you did not even quote and You just pick and Chose. You said Abraham was not a first Muslim Oh. But he was a Muslim Abi According to your books. Was he be fore Abraham or After Abraham?

Some questions for you here

Was Abraham's generation the same as Muhammed's (saw)
Was Moses' generation the same as Abraham's

Posted by: Backslider
They were both of the same people.

Same people, how? Are they of the same generation?

Posted by: Backslider
[b]You said "and be not thou of the company of those who join gods with Allah." means "Amongst his people", Was paganism only practiced amongst the quarish people did we not have Jew persians and even Xtians those times.

Mind you brother, earlier christians were given freedom to practice their religion.

Let me give you example

Around the 4th year of Hijrah, the Holy Prophet granted to the monks of the Monastry of St. Catherine, near Mount Sinai, his liberal charter by which they secured for the Christians noble and generous privileges and immunities. He undertook himself and enjoined his followers, to protect the Christians, to defend their churches and the residences of their priests and to guard them from all injuries.

They were not to be unfairly taxed; no bishop was to be driven out of his diocese; nor Christian was to be forced to reject his religion; no monk was to be expelled from his Monastry; no pilgrim was to be stopped from his pilgrimage; nor were the Christian churches to be pulled down for the sake of building mosques or houses for the Muslims.

Christian women married to Muslims were to enjoy their own religion and not to be subjected to compulsion or annoyance of any kind. If the Christians should stand in need of assistance for the repair of their churches or monasteries, or any other matter pertaining to their religion, the Muslims were to assist them. This was not to be considered as supporting their religion, but as simply rendering them assistance in special circumstances.

Posted by: Backslider
Ah My brother be Honest in your Submission Did this "Amongst his people" apply to the Other In The Surat I quoted?

Dear brother, I have been telling you the truth and nothing but the truth but its you that do not understand me.

Hope you have seen my quote above for christians. prophet Muhammed (saw) was the first to be muslim among his people. Read the below too

When Holy prophet Muhammed (saw) received the first revelation, he was afraid and ran to his wife Khadijah. The next day his wife arose and went to her cousin Waraqa Ibn Naufal, who was old and blind and who knew the Scriptures of the Jews and Christians.

When she told him of what she had heard, he cried out: "Holy! Holy! Verily, this is the Namus (The Holy Spirit) who came to Moses. He will be the prophet of his people. Tell him this and bid him to be brave at heart." When the two men met subsequently in the street, the blind old student of the Jewish and Christian Scriptures (Waraqa) spoke of his faith and trust: "I swear by Him in Who hand Waraqa's life is, Allah has chosen you to be the prophet of this people. They will call you a liar, they will persecute you, they will banish you, and they will fight against you. Oh, that I could live to those days. I would fight for these." And he kissed him on the forehead.

The above shows that he was the first muslim among his people through the revelation he received.

The below verse also shows that he was the first muslim among hs people that other prophets' people perished ,

Quran 50: 12-14

v12: Denied before them (i.e these pagans of Meccah) the people of Noah and the dwellers of Rass and Thamud

v13: and Ad and Pharaoah and the brethren of Lot.

v14: And the dwellers of the wood and the people of Tubba. Everyone of them denied (THEIR) MESSENGERS, so my threat took effect.

Did you see the above. All prophets were sent to their people and were the first to always accept Islam. Abraham was the first muslim during his time, Moses was the first among his people while the Holy Prophet too (Peace be on all of them) was the first muslim among his Ummah.


Posted by: Backslider
[b]You have not done anything but Used The First One to About Muhamed to Explain the Other where it was NEVER STATED In the verse that "Amongst his people", This I think is Dishonesty.

Ok see

Posted by: Backslider
The Verse of moses comes After the verse of Muhamed 6 and 7.
If you read the next post you will see

Brother, another thing you dont know is that, the verses were not arranged according to how they were revealed.


[b]Posted by: Backslider
Quran 7: 54 Your gurdian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens and earth in Six Days[/b]

The above says heavens and earth in 6 days, meaning the creation of both the heavens and earth including everything attaching to the two.


[b][b]Posted by: Backslider [/b]
Quran 10: 3 Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and earth in Six Days[/b]

Same as in the above


Posted by: Backslider
[b]Quran 11:7 He it is Who created the heavens and earth in Six Days
Quran-25:29: He Who created the heavens and earth and all that is between, in Six Days[/b]

Just like the above.


[b]Posted by: Backslider
The above verses clearly state that God created the heaven and Allah created the heaven and the Earth in 6 days. But the verses below stated-[/b]

Ok, lets see


[b]Posted by: Backslider
Quran 41: 9 Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?[/b]

My brother, try to understand please. The above says that Allah created the earth (mind you, no heaven mentioned in the above verse) in 2 days.


[b]Posted by: Backslider
Quran 41: 10 He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…[/b]

I proceed. Allah says He created what we have in the earth i.e mountains and bestowing blessings in four days.

The first verse is on the creation of earth alone which was 2 days
The second on the creation of earth INCLUDING mountains etc was 4 days.

While the totality of the creation of both the earth and what we have in the earth i.e. mountains made up the four days.


[b]Posted by: Backslider
Quran 41: 12 So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days and …[/b]

Brother, the creation of heaven took 2 days (mind earth was not involved here). The above was for only heaven.

[b]Posted by: Backslider
Now do the math: 2(for earth) + 4(for nourishment) + 2 (for heavens) = 8 days; and not 6 days
[/b]

The small maths I know I can say this is a Contradiction

No contradiction sir.

This is the simple mathematics.

The totality of the creation of earth along with the mountains made up the four days. The creation of earth alone of is 2 days, while the inclusion of mountains etc took 2 days making four while that of heavens took another 2 days making total of 6. Let me analyse it for you below

Creation of only earth = 2 (without mountains etc)
Creation of mountains and other blessings = 2+2 = 4

Note: Creation of only the earth took 2 days while that of the blessings in it took another two days making up = 4 days
The creation of heavens took 2 days, making up 4 + 2 = 6 days in all.

Salam

@backslider,

brother.

Am working on your last post when this one came in and as such will attend to it.

Posted by: Backslider
correction of my last post on this thread
I have spent my time to Quote your own Quran that you did not even quote and You just pick and Chose. You said Abraham was not a first Muslim Oh. But he was a Muslim Abi According to your books. Was he be fore Abraham or After Abraham?

**I have spent my time to Quote your own Quran that you did not even quote and You just pick and Chose. You said Abraham was not a first Muslim Oh. But he was a Muslim Abi According to your books. Was he be fore MOSES or After MOSES?

Please take of this correction

Was Abraham's generation the same as that of Moses'?
Was Noah's generation the same as that of Muhammed?

I have answered you, you just have to read and concentrate dear brother.
All prophets except Muhammed (saw) were sent to their people. They were the first to be believers among their community. They came and preached to their people to accept Islam. I have explained below.

Happy reading

I have explained but will still explain. There is nothing like contradiction in all the verses. Now lets see all the verses

Posted by: Backslider
I have spent my time to Quote your own Quran that you did not even quote and You just pick and Chose. You said Abraham was not a first Muslim Oh. But he was a Muslim Abi According to your books. Was he be fore Abraham or After Abraham?

Some questions for you here

Was Abraham's generation the same as Muhammed's (saw)
Was Moses' generation the same as Abraham's

[b]Posted by: Backslider
They were both of the same people. [/b]

Same people, how? Are they of the same generation?

You said "and be not thou of the company of those who join gods with Allah." means "Amongst his people", Was paganism only practiced amongst the quarish people did we not have Jew persians and even Xtians those times.

Mind you brother, earlier christians were given freedom to practice their religion.

Let me give you example

Around the 4th year of Hijrah, the Holy Prophet granted to the monks of the Monastry of St. Catherine, near Mount Sinai, his liberal charter by which they secured for the Christians noble and generous privileges and immunities. He undertook himself and enjoined his followers, to protect the Christians, to defend their churches and the residences of their priests and to guard them from all injuries.

They were not to be unfairly taxed; no bishop was to be driven out of his diocese; nor Christian was to be forced to reject his religion; no monk was to be expelled from his Monastry; no pilgrim was to be stopped from his pilgrimage; nor were the Christian churches to be pulled down for the sake of building mosques or houses for the Muslims.

Christian women married to Muslims were to enjoy their own religion and not to be subjected to compulsion or annoyance of any kind. If the Christians should stand in need of assistance for the repair of their churches or monasteries, or any other matter pertaining to their religion, the Muslims were to assist them. This was not to be considered as supporting their religion, but as simply rendering them assistance in special circumstances.

Posted by: Backslider
Ah My brother be Honest in your Submission Did this "Amongst his people" apply to the Other In The Surat I quoted?

Dear brother, I have been telling you the truth and nothing but the truth but its you that do not understand me.

Hope you have seen my quote above for christians. prophet Muhammed (saw) was the first to be muslim among his people. Read the below too

When Holy prophet Muhammed (saw) received the first revelation, he was afraid and ran to his wife Khadijah. The next day his wife arose and went to her cousin Waraqa Ibn Naufal, who was old and blind and who knew the Scriptures of the Jews and Christians.

When she told him of what she had heard, he cried out: "Holy! Holy! Verily, this is the Namus (The Holy Spirit) who came to Moses. He will be the prophet of his people. Tell him this and bid him to be brave at heart." When the two men met subsequently in the street, the blind old student of the Jewish and Christian Scriptures (Waraqa) spoke of his faith and trust: "I swear by Him in Who hand Waraqa's life is, Allah has chosen you to be the prophet of this people. They will call you a liar, they will persecute you, they will banish you, and they will fight against you. Oh, that I could live to those days. I would fight for these." And he kissed him on the forehead.

The above shows that he was the first muslim among his people through the revelation he received.

The below verse also shows that he was the first muslim among hs people that other prophets' people perished ,

Quran 50: 12-14

v12: Denied before them (i.e these pagans of Meccah) the people of Noah and the dwellers of Rass and Thamud

v13: and Ad and Pharaoah and the brethren of Lot.

v14: And the dwellers of the wood and the people of Tubba. Everyone of them denied (THEIR) MESSENGERS, so my threat took effect.

Did you see the above. All prophets were sent to their people and were the first to always accept Islam. Abraham was the first muslim during his time, Moses was the first among his people while the Holy Prophet too (Peace be on all of them) was the first muslim among his Ummah.


Posted by: Backslider
You have not done anything but Used The First One to About Muhamed to Explain the Other where it was NEVER STATED In the verse that "Amongst his people", This I think is Dishonesty.  

Ok see

The Verse of moses comes After the verse of Muhamed 6 and 7.

If you read the next post you will see

Brother, another thing you dont know is that, the verses were not arranged according to how they were revealed.


[b]Posted by: Backslider
Quran 7: 54 Your gurdian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens and earth in Six Days[/b]

The above says heavens and earth in 6 days, meaning the creation of both the heavens and earth including everything attaching to the two.


[b][b]Posted by: Backslider [/b]
Quran 10: 3 Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and earth in Six Days[/b]

Same as in the above


Posted by: Backslider
Quran 11:7 He it is Who created the heavens and earth in Six Days
Quran-25:29: He Who created the heavens and earth and all that is between, in Six Days

Just like the above.


[b]Posted by: Backslider
The above verses clearly state that God created the heaven and Allah created the heaven and the Earth in 6 days. But the verses below stated-[/b]

Ok, lets see


[b]Posted by: Backslider
Quran 41: 9 Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?[/b]

My brother, try to understand please. The above says that Allah created the earth (mind you, no heaven mentioned in the above verse) in 2 days.


[b]Posted by: Backslider
Quran 41: 10 He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…[/b]

I proceed. Allah says He created what we have in the earth i.e mountains and bestowing blessings in four days.

The first verse is on the creation of earth alone which was 2 days
The second on the creation of earth INCLUDING  mountains etc was 4 days.

While the totality of the creation of both the earth and what we have in the earth i.e. mountains made up the four days.


[b]Posted by: Backslider
Quran 41: 12 So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days and …[/b]

Brother, the creation of heaven took 2 days (mind earth was not involved here). The above was for only heaven.

[b]Posted by: Backslider
Now do the math: 2(for earth) + 4(for nourishment) + 2 (for heavens) = 8 days; and not 6 days[/b]

The small maths I know I can say this is a Contradiction

No contradiction sir.

This is the simple mathematics.

The totality of the creation of earth along with the mountains made up the four days. The creation of earth alone of is 2 days, while the inclusion of mountains etc took 2 days making four while that of heavens took another 2 days making total of 6. Let me analyse it for you below

Creation of only earth  = 2 (without mountains etc)
Creation of mountains and other blessings = 2+2 = 4

Note: Creation of only the earth took 2 days while that of the blessings in it took another two days making up = 4 days
The creation of heavens took 2 days, making up 4 + 2 = 6 days in all.

Salam

@4get-me,

Jehovah witness are not in agreement with protestant. They are claiming that their bible is in line with the original manuscript.

The catholics are not in line with Protestant and they are claiming that their bible is in line with the original manuscript.

The protestant too, are claiming same.


Likewise the Mormons, seventh day adventist etc,

The question now is,

Which do we agree to since they are all claiming to have written their bibles in line with the original manuscript.

@Pain

Far from that.

Christians have been preaching false doctrines all these while.

A lot of people were blindfolded into accepting the false doctrines.

But of recent, lots of people are beginning to realise the truth.

And may I ask you, which is the fastest growing religion?

Anyway, am just passing by

See ya later

@4 get me

Make sure you understand every verse before posting them here.

Sura 4 vs.89
They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.

Here, how come christians. Was christian mentioned? The verse is referring to pagans when they were introduced to Islam and they rejected it and resorted to fighting the prophet.

Sura 9 vs.111
Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

Like I said, make sure you understand every verse before posting here.

The above verse is referring to Believers. Allah talks about Paradise for the believers that killed people (during the war) and were also killed (by people during the war). Those that fight in Allah's cause, the believers.

Understood?

Brother, this verse is talking

@4get me


Quote from: babs787 on Today at 02:35:20 PM
I will give you just two examples to answer your questions above

2nd Timothy 4v9: , do your diligence to come shortly unto me. The cloak that I left at Tro-as with Cyprus, when you comem bring with you, and the books, but especially THE APARCHMENTS.

Yep. And what is your problem with that?

So the above is the word of God (hmmm)

Since you said it is the word, applying 2nd timothy 3v16, under what heading do we put the above

Quote from: babs787 on Today at 02:35:20 PM
Luke 1v1; for as much as many have taken in order a declaration of these things which are most surely believed among us. Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word: IT SEEMED GOOD TO ME ALSO, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first to write unto you in order, MOST EXCELLENT THEOPHILUS.


Yes. That is part of what Muhammad first referred to as the Injil, and then later denied without a shred of truth in his claims.

My friend, this is not what is referred to as injil. The above is one of the letters written then and shouldnt be part of the bible. It was written to THEOPHILUS or are you THEOPHILUS?

Since the above is also word of God as said by 4get me, apllying 2nd timothy 3v16, what heading do we put the above and what is the teaching of the above verse?

First, you forget that Muhammad initially embraced the Bible - both Old and New Testaments. It was later on that he accused the Bible of having been corrupted - after initially having received "revelation" from the same "Allah" that he sent down, revealed and confirmed what Muhammad was denying.

Not accused but the the truth. The bible has been corrupted. Hey, lest I forget, create a thread for your questions which you asked in other thread and we sort them out and the questions will lead us to the origin, authors and authenticity of the bible

The words and behaviour of the prophet Muhammad contradict the Qur'an, apart from the Qur'an contradicting itself with "strong" (and weak) "abrogated verses". That is why when certain words and acitivities of Muhammad are pointed out in the Hadith, Muslim quickly deny them (as they fear denying the Qur'an), and then make excuses that Muhammad was a man like anyone else; or that, such and such an Hadith is a false one and no one can really know which one is a true hadith.

Your argument holds no water brother.

The Qur'an you have today was written by men - most of whom confirmed that certain verses of the Qur'an have been lost; and others editted and compiled them to make up the political redaction of the third Caliph Uthman. I don't see why a Muslim would want to burn the word of "Allah" if there were no descripancies between what he had produced and and the original copy.

Hello brother. I have been quoting missing verses for you from your bible. If you are truthful that the quran is incomplete, bring out a verse that is missing and if you cant, it will be better for you to let the matter rest. (baseless argument)

Meanwhile, there were frequent fights between early Muslims about the differences in reading of the revealed words of the Qur'an: no one was agreed as to which was which - and today, Sunnis and Shiites are at each others' throats over the age-old controversies.

My brother, there are different ways of reciting the holy quran just like you have different ways of singing "On the mountain, In the valley,

You may give it baritone voice etc depending on the way you prefer.


Quote from: babs787 on Today at 02:35:20 PM
Note: coming soon absurdities in the bible

It won't be new - there have been attacks on the Bible from all corners; and yet, it has confirmed its promises true in the lives of those who know Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. When people have no defences for their accusations against Christ, they employ so-called "absurdities in the bible" against CHRISTIANITY. My simple question is: are Muslims willing to subject Muhammad to the same test of "absurdities"?? It's all a question of CHRIST and MUHAMMAD, not so?

No no no. Jesus was never a christian but a muslim likewise his disciples.

Quote from: babs787 on Today at 02:35:20 PM
Just the same question that was asked backslider: we all know that the bible is an incomplete book based on missing verses, bring out just only missing verse from the Quran and I will believe you.

And what has happened to the "abrogated verses" of the Qur'an - or you don't understand the simple English meaning of "abrogate"??

Knowledgeable brother. To you, abrogation means missing abi. Are the abrogated verses missing from the Quran? Are they not there? Na wa o.

Never mind, I will shed more light on abrogation very soon.

@backslider

Dear brother,

I saw your 2 posts.

I am amazed at your Qoutes and interpretation

brother, you dont need to be amazed but just read and concentrate

Who Was the First Muslim? Muhammad [6:14, 163],

006.014
YUSUFALI: Say: "Shall I take for my protector any other than Allah, the Maker of the heavens and the earth? And He it is that feedeth but is not fed." Say: "Nay! but I am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah (in Islam), and be not thou of the company of those who join gods with Allah."

PICKTHAL: Say: Shall I choose for a protecting friend other than Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, Who feedeth and is never fed? Say: I am ordered to be the first to surrender (unto Him). And be not thou (O Muhammad) of the idolaters.

SHAKIR: Say: Shall I take a guardian besides Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, and He feeds (others) and is not (Himself) fed. Say: I am commanded to be the first who submits himself, and you should not be of the polytheists

Brother, I have explained to you, I will still re-explain

he is not saying that he was the first muslim on earth but that the first to be muslim among his Ummah.

Now for your understanding, note the word "and be not thou of the company of those who join gods with Allah."

During his time, people never believed in Allah they rather resorted to worshipping of idol.

He was the first to submit among his Ummah as a muslim

006.163
YUSUFALI: No partner hath He: this am I commanded, and I am the first of those who bow to His will.  

PICKTHAL: He hath no partner. This am I commanded, and I am first of those who surrender (unto Him).

SHAKIR: No associate has He; and this am I commanded, and I am the first of those who submit.

Still the same thing. He was the first among his people to accept Islam and bow as a muslim.

Did you see "first among all muslims"? there

[b] Moses?  [7:143]  

YUSUFALI: When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe."

PICKTHAL: And when Moses came to Our appointed tryst and his Lord had spoken unto him, he said: My Lord! Show me (Thy Self), that I may gaze upon Thee. He said: Thou wilt not see Me, but gaze upon the mountain! If it stand still in its place, then thou wilt see Me. And when his Lord revealed (His) glory to the mountain He sent it crashing down. And Moses fell down senseless. And when he woke he said: Glory unto Thee! I turn unto Thee repentant, and I am the first of (true) believers.

SHAKIR: And when Musa came at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said: My Lord! show me (Thyself), so that I may look upon Thee. He said: You cannot (bear to) see Me but look at the mountain, if it remains firm in its place, then will you see Me; but when his Lord manifested His glory to the mountain He made it crumble and Musa fell down in a swoon; then when he recovered, he said: Glory be to Thee, I turn to Thee, and I am the first of the believers. [/b]

Just like the above. Moses he was the first to believe. Mind you, the above incident happened during moses' time. He wasa being mocked by his people. He told God that he wanted to see his but when God showed him just little of his supernatural power, he fell down and said " I am the first of those who believe". Not that the first of all muslims to believe. Afterall Adam came before him, Abraham came before him, so also Noah etc.

All prophets were sent to their people and they were the first to be muslims (believers) during their time

some Egyptians [26:51]

YUSUFALI: "Only, our desire is that our Lord will forgive us our faults, that we may become foremost among the believers!"

PICKTHAL: Lo! we ardently hope that our Lord will forgive us our sins because we are the first of the believers.

SHAKIR: Surely we hope that our Lord will forgive us our wrongs because we are the first of the believers.

Like i said, always endeavour to read and understand the meaning of the chapter and not lifting a verse.

Moses went to Pharaoh to liberate the Isrealite. He went with two convicing miracles so that Pharaoh will allow the israelite go. The first miracle was the whittening of his hand while the second is the throwing down of his staff to the ground.

Pharaoh assembled all the egyptian sorcerers at the appointed time and place and they first threw their ropes which turned to snakes while moses threw his too and it turned to a big snake and swallowed the rest.

Now I continue with the verse in order for youto understand

26v46: and the sorcerers fell down prostrate
47: saying. :WE BELIEVE IN THE LORD OF THE ALAMIN.
48; THE LORD OF MOSES AND AARON

When pahraoh saw these happening. He said

quran 26v49: , you have believed in him before I give you leave, surely, he indeed is your chief who has taught you magic, verily I will cut off your hands and feet on opposite sides, and iwill crucify you all.

THE REASON FOR THE ABOVE IS THAT PHARAOH DECIDED TO PUNISH THEM WHEN THEY DECIDED TO ABANDON HIM FOR THE FAITH OF MOSES.

Mind you, the sorcerers were not  believers but became believers as a result of the miracle of moses. When pharaoh uttered the above, they now said

Q26v50: they said: no harm1 surely, to our Lord (Allah) we are to return.

AND SAID THIS

QURAN 26V51: WE REALLY HOPE THAT OUR LORD WILL FORGIVE US OUR SINS, AS WE ARE THE FIRST OF THE BELIEVERS (IN MOSES) AND IN THE MONOTHEISM WHICH HE HAS BROUGHT FROM ALLAH)

Did you get that? They were the first to be believers among the egyptian during Moses time.


, or Abraham [2:127-133, 3:67]

002.127
YUSUFALI: And remember Abraham and Isma'il raised the foundations of the House (With this prayer): "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us: For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-knowing.

PICKTHAL: And when Abraham and Ishmael were raising the foundations of the House, (Abraham prayed): Our Lord! Accept from us (this duty). Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Hearer, the Knower.

SHAKIR: And when Ibrahim and Ismail raised the foundations of the House: Our Lord! accept from us; surely Thou art the Hearing, the Knowing:

Here, it wasnt mentioned whether Abraham was the first muslim or not.

003.067
YUSUFALI: Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to Allah's (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with Allah.

PICKTHAL: Abraham was not a Jew, nor yet a Christian; but he was an upright man who had surrendered (to Allah), and he was not of the idolaters.

SHAKIR: Ibrahim was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was (an) upright (man), a Muslim, and he was not one of the polytheists.

The verse never said he was the first muslim but that he was a muslim.

The above verse is in response to christians and jews that do say that Abraham was a christian or a jew.

"So if moses says, "I am the first to bow as muslims", it means he is the first among his people to be a muslim likewise abraham."

If I agree with you for the sake of Arguement, it means that If moses says he was the first bow as muslim Among his people, What About Abraham? Abraham is the father of Moses.

My brother, what you dont know is that the coming  and going of the prophets is like a relay race in which one collects the baton from another. All prophets came with the same teachings and religion. God never gives his prophets different religions. We have verses supporting this claim.

In every community, every prophets accept Islam before other people in the same community and thats the reason for the above verses you quoted. They are in no way contradictions


Quran 41: 9 Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?

Quran 41: 10 He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…

Quran 41: 12 So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days and …

My brother, the first verse talks on the creation of the EARTH ALONE.
The second verse talks about the creation of mountain and bestowing of blessings i.e. creation of other things on the earth
While the third verse is on the creation of heavens and not EARTH.

Hope u have seen the difference?

Thanks and God bless.

Looking forward to hearing from you


Salam

@4get

Three questions, please:

#1. Since you believe that the Bible can never be the word of God, how come in the same breath you still believe that it contains the Word of God as well?

#2. Can you enunciate the texts in the Bible that you believe to be the Word of God?

I will give you just two examples to answer your questions above

2nd Timothy 4v9: , do your diligence to come shortly unto me. The cloak that I left at Tro-as with Cyprus, when you comem bring with you, and the books, but especially THE APARCHMENTS.

Is the above word of God?

secondly

Luke 1v1; for as much as many have taken in order a declaration of these things which are most surely believed among us. Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word: IT SEEMED GOOD TO ME ALSO, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very forst to write unto you in order, MOST EXCELLENT THEOPHILUS.

Do you call the above word of God?

#3. Since in the Qur'an, "you can never see such things" (such things including "the word of God" in your statement), does that not conclude then that the Qur'an is not the Word of God?

You can never see irrelevant words like the above in the Quran.It consist only the words of Allah. You will only find the words of the prophet making up the hadith whereas we have words of prophets making up your bible that is supposed to be word of God.

Also letters written by prophet to many leaders were not included in the Quran but in your so called holy book, we have letters of luke, paul, james making up the gospel of jesus (very funny) etc.

We know that Muslim sources themselves have questioned the Qur'an as the Word of God by indicating that some of it was lost and other verses were abrogated. Maybe that's why we can agree with you that "in the Holy Quran, you can never see such things" when it comes to what is called "the word of God".


Note: coming soon absurdities in the bible


Just the same question that was asked backslider: we all know that the bible is an incomplete book based on missing verses, bring out just only missing verse from the Quran and I will believe you.

Cheers

@get me

You should know, more than any other person, that Muhammad hated both Jews and Christians, besides his 'revelations' to slay pagans. The JEWISH wars of the Old Testament are not doctrines of command for CHRISTIANS - and just as Muhammad said, if you are in doubt, ask "the people of the book" by reading the New Testament.

can you bring me a verse that says Christians should be slayed?

The broad generalization of accusing Christians of the sins of Muhammad hasn't won any arguments/debates; and

The above had been debunked