₦airaland Forum

@shahan,

having done that, let me go into your allegations.

]MUHAMMAD'S SEXUAL LEWDNESS

1. Was Muhammad a pedophile?

Sahih Muslim, Book 8: Number 3310: The Book of Marriage [Kitab Al-Nikah] -
"A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old"

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
"Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death)."

Abu Dawud, Vol. 2, Number 2116:
Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old. (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years.". "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old."[/b]

Hadeeth has been explained above and answers have been provided on 9-year-old aisha in most of the threads. So I would not waste my time trying to reason with someone who was so obviously sunk in gross intellectual dishonesty I learnt that you have no other questions except the issue of aisha, you are just re-bringing questions that have been answered in most threads, I’d like to point out to you hate-mongers (shahan, davidylan, havila, mrpataki, babysin etc) that marriage (in which they are cleared about) at puberty, based on historical evidence which documented the norms of various human societies, has widely and often been considered morally acceptable. Indeed, since it has already been clearly and effectively demonstrated at least to any honest and fair-minded person—that there was nothing wrong with marrying a woman at puberty in the society in which 'Aishah—radi Allahu 'anha—lived.

With regards to your statement "Mohammed as a paedophile”, you're wrong. If you had bothered to do some research, instead of coming up with your own rather convenient definitions, you'd find that the definition of a paedophile is someone who is
"sexually attracted primarily or exclusively to prepubescent children", thus Prophet Muhammad—salla Allahu 'alayhi wa salam—certainly wasn't one.

"Pedophile: also spelled PAEDOPHILIA, psychosexual disorder in which an adult's arousal and sexual gratification occur primarily through sexual contact with prepubescent children. The typical paedophile is unable to find satisfaction in an adult sexual relationship and may have low self-esteem, seeing sexual activity with a child as less threatening than that with an adult." Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1998.

"pe.do.phil.ia n [NL] (1906): sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object -- pe.do.phil.i.ac or pe.do.phil.ic adj." Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary.
The diagnostic criteria for paedophilia according to American Psychiatric Association:

1.Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent intense sexual urges and sexual arousing fantasies involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children.

2. The person has acted on these urges, or is markedly distressed by them

3. The person is at least 16 years old and at least 5 years older than the child or children in A.

[b]However, the reasons for marrying Aish are;

The Prophet married Aisha primarily for three reasons:

a. To reinforce the friendly relations already existing with Abu Bakr (his closest companion).

b. To educate and train Aisha for the purposes of Islam.

c. To utilise her capabilities for the sake of Islam.

Her Marriage with the prophet was a Wahy (Divine Revelation). She, herself relates from the Prophet. "He said, 'I saw you in dreams three times. The angel brought you to me and you were clad in white silk. He (the angel) said that it was your consort and he (angel) showed me by opening your face. You are just like that, " Sahih Muslim, Vol.2, p. 285.

Aisha (r.a.) was born after her parents had embraced Islam. Therefore, she was free from the defilement of polytheism right from her birth.

In her youth, already known for her striking beauty and her formidable memory, she came under the loving care and attention of the Prophet himself. As his wife and close companion she acquired from him knowledge and insight such as no woman has ever acquired.

Aisha lived on almost fifty years after the passing away of the Prophet. She had been his wife for a decade. Much of this time was spent in learning and acquiring knowledge of the two most important sources of God's guidance, the Qur'an and the Sunnah of His Prophet. Aisha (r.a.) was one of the three wives (the other two being Hafsa (r.a.) and Umm Salama (r.a.) who memorised the Revelation. Like Hafsa (r.a.), she had her own script of the Qur'an written after the Prophet had died.

So far as the Hadith or sayings of the Prophet is concerned, Aisha (r.a.) is one of four persons (the others being Abu Hurayra, Abdullah ibn Umar, and Anas ibn Malik) who transmitted more than two thousand sayings. From her, 2210 Hadith have come, out of which 174 Hadith are commonly agreed upon by both Bukhari and Muslim.

WILL CONTINUE ON THAT LATER.

BAck to your allegation[/b]

I did not deny that the Prophet—salla Allahu 'alayhi wa salam—married his wife Aishah when she was nine years old, she was not "prepubescent" at the time, but had already reached puberty.

Also, of the women that the Prophet Muhammad-salla Allahu 'alayhi wa salam-married, much like the prophets of the Old Testament, Aishah was the only young bride and the only virgin. All of his other wives were older and/or previously married women, including his first wife Khadija who was forty years old when he married her and fifteen years his senior. It's also worth noting that in his younger years, the Prophet—salla Allahu 'alayhi wa salam—was married to one and only one woman for over twenty years—and this was in an age of unlimited polygamy.

So based on all of that, the "paedophile" label doesn't stick since not only was Aishah not "prepubescent", but there is no evidence that the Prophet—salla Allahu 'alayhi wa salam—was "primarily" or "exclusively" interested in children, but quite a lot of evidence to the contrary.

There's considerable evidence—both textual, logical and circumstantial—which, when considered as an integral whole, demonstrates that 'Aishah—radi Allahu 'anha—had reached puberty at the time of her marriage. This evidence includes:

1. marriage" found in Surat al-Nisa' 4:6. In regards to this, four of the well-known classical commentators have the following to say
Tafsir al-Tabari: Clearly states that "And when He said 'they reach the (age of) marriage' then He means they reached puberty (al-hulum)"

Tafsir al-Qurtubi: In regards to the statement "until they reach the (age of) marriage", Imam al-Qurtubi says, "meaning puberty (al-hulum). And said the Most High, 'When children reach puberty' (al-Nur 59),meaning puberty (al-balugh) and state of marriage (wa hal al-nikah)."

Tafsir Ibn Kathir: In explaining, "until they reach the (age of) marriage", he states that "Mujahid said meaning puberty (al-hulum)".

Tafsir al-Jalalayn: Contains the explanation that: "'And Challenge' test 'the orphans' before they reach puberty in their religion and their conduct 'until they reach the (age of) marriage', meaning they reach puberty or the age of fifteen years old according to the Shafi'is".

2 The above ruling regarding the age of marriage is mutually supported by an authentic (hassan) narration in Sunan al-Tirmidhi's Kitab al-Nikah,where 'Aishah herself says: "When the girl reaches nine years of age she is a woman". Reason dictates that this is because she was referring to her own experience in which she reached puberty at the age of nine. If this wasn't the case, all of the just mentioned tafsirs would seemingly need to state that "until they reach the (age of) marriage" means "nine" and not "puberty".

3. In steadfast consistence with the above points, Surat al-Nur 24:59, clearly shows that children are considered adults when they reach puberty, since it says "And when the children among you come to puberty (al-hulum), then let them (also) ask for permission, as do those senior to them (in age)". Indeed, this is a clear Qur'anic reference that the age of discretion (i.e. adulthood) was identified with the onset of puberty.

4. The fact that the various hadiths clearly state that 'Aishah—radi Allahu 'anha—was "betrothed (zawaj)" when she was "six years old" and "consummated (nikah)" her marriage when she was "nine years old", clearly begs the question:
"What, were her parents waiting for?"

Well the obvious answer to why they waited some three years between the betrothal and the consummation of the marriage is that they were waiting for their daughter to reach adulthood—which is, as already demonstrated above, clearly defined as puberty.

5. The above question is answered directly and unambiguously on page 128 of The History of al-Tabari — Volume IX, where it states that "As for 'A'ishah, when he married her she was very young and not yet ready for consummation"—which clearly proves that they were waiting for her to reach puberty (i.e. to be biologically "ready". Likewise, the statement that 'A'ishah—radi Allahu 'anha—was "not yet ready for consummation" would undoubtedly be nonsensical in a social context where marriage to prepubescent children was allowed. Thus it both severely undermines the merely circumstantial evidence which has been brought forward in an ineffectual attempt to prove the contrary, and serves as strong proof that the marriage in question certainly did not involve a prepubescent girl.
The honest conclusion after considering all of the above mutually supporting evidence as a whole, including a statement from 'Aishah herself, is that the marriage took place when 'Aishah—radi Allahu 'anha—had become a "woman"—meaning that she had reached puberty.

By the way, shahan, babysin, havila, malik, davidlan, mrpataki, if you insist on maintaining, in spite of the evidence, that Prophet Muhammad—salla Allahu 'alayhi wa salam—was a paedophile, then sound logic dictates that Jesus Christ—'alayhi as-salam—gave tacit approval to paedophilia. I know that this might be a bitter pill to swallow, but if you'd do some research (and don't worry, I'm not holding my breath), you'd find that marrying girls at the outset of puberty were very much the norm in first century Palestine (i.e. the time in which Jesus lived)—puberty being taken as a biological sign that a woman was ready to bear children.

Now if marrying young women at such an early age, as all societies throughout human history have done until the modern era—and even some still do, was some sort of perverted crime, then Jesus Christ—'alayhi as-salam—would have been obliged to speak out against it. Indeed, any religious leader who is trying to call people to God-fearingness and righteousness has a moral duty to speak out against any crimes, gross injustices or social ills that he's been made aware of.

However, there's nothing in the four gospels which indicates that Jesus—'alayhi as-salam—ever spoke out against people in his largely Jewish society marrying girls at puberty. On the contrary, the Hebrew world "almah", which occurs in Isaiah 7:14 and is considered by Christians to be a prophecy of Mary's virgin birth, means a young woman, of marriageable age, who has passed the age of puberty.

It's based on this that many scholars think that Mary was around twelve years old when she gave birth to Jesus—'alayhi as-salam, although some feel that she might have been as old as fifteen. However, "in modern terms", regardless of which age you take, her betrothed husband Joseph would still have been guilty of committing a criminal act (at least in the US and UK). To be fair, however, we should mention that even this would not technically be considered paedophilia, since there's no proof he was "primarily" or "exclusively" attracted to young girls. And if you want to get technical, Mary was no longer a girl, based on the standards of the society in which she lived, since she was past the age of puberty, thus she was an adult.

Conclusively, Anyway, getting back to the subject of Jesus' tacit approval of marrying girls just after they'd reached puberty, it seems that Christians have one of two choices: 1) admit that Jesus Christ—'alayhi as-salam—failed in his mission as a moral leader (and even Muslims won't admit to this); or 2) recognize that based on the values of the society of his time, which saw nothing wrong with marrying young girls just after they reached puberty, nothing immoral was going on in this regard, thus Jesus was not obligated to speak out against any of it. So just like the Bani Qurayza issue, this is another one where Christians (shahan, havila, mrpataki, davidyaln etc)would be well advised to do some research, set their biases aside and then engage their brains before opening their mouths.

b]2. Did Muhammad commit incest (sex with his relation)?

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 18
Narrated 'Ursa: The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."
[note the threat in his tone to impose his wishes on Abu Bakr, and Muhammad's arrant disregard for *Allah and his Book.][/b]

shahan, ask for God’s forgiveness before saying and posting anything on nairaland because there are wise and knowledgeable Muslims and Christians on nairaland and you don’t have to lie in other to be accepted.

Before I go into explanation, I will like to explain what INCEST is from Dictionary persepective.

Incest: sexual intercourse of kindred within forbidden degrees
Kindred: of the same family related by blood. (both from Collins English dictionary)

Incest: sexual intercourse between persons too closely related for legal marriage (Webster Comprehensive Dictionary)

Based on the definition above on what incest is and the verse you wrote up, I have questions for you.


1. Was Abu Bakr a relative of Prophet Muhammed or were they related by blood?
2. Was Aisha a relative of Muhammed or were they related by blood?
3. Where was the threat in his tone.

Like I said, may God’s anger be on liars. The Prophet (saw) asked Abu Bakr of his hand in marriage and he said "But I am your brother."
The Prophet replied "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."

You will never understand the above because your religion christianity never allowed you to do so since you don’t have such in it. I even read with amusement how you Christians on nairaland attack each other despite the fact that you called yourselves Christians. The above quote unlike Christians in which catholic goes against Pentecostal, Jehovah witnesses against protestant etc, we Muslims are brothers IN FAITH (ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM). The prophet said that “we Muslims are like blocks when laying foundation and when building house, anything that affects any of the blocks, affects the other too, so likewise we Muslims. He also said “you shall not attain piety unless you wish for your brother what you wish for yourself”. I advise you to find and read about BROTHERHOOD IN ISLAM.

[b]3. Did Muhammad use the Qur'an as an licence for his lewd incest?

Sura 033.050
"O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
[Not only did Muhammad use the Qur'an as a licence for incest, but he also used it to buttress his sexual perversion and womanizing, rape of war victims and prostitution. Note well that he arrogated this privilege only to himself and not to other Muslims.
[/b]

You are just re-bringing already explained issues. The issue of incest has been explained up. I pray you don’t die in your ignorance, the above is very glaring but you proved that you have senses but your senses proved useless to you. For better understanding, the above verse included “those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war” and “daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee”. The above verse came during one of the wars fought. In every war, it is usually recorded that men do have larger number of death as a result of their facing the war front. When this happens, the population of men reduces significantly leaving over populous women for fewer men. (we have similar stories in the bible too). For understanding, go and read the battles fought by the Prophet.

Now, having read that the above verse came during war, and after the war, I leave you with a verse in which Allah explained everything

Quran 4v22-24: “And marry not women whom your fathers married, except what has already passed, indeed it was shameful and most hateful, and evil ways. Forbidden to you (for marriage) are: Your mothers, your daughter, your sisters, your father’s sister, your sister’s daughters, your foster mother who gave you suck, your foster milk suckling sister, your wive’s mother, your step daughters, under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom you have gone in – but there is no sin on you if you have not gone in them ( to marry their daughters), the wives of your sons who (spring) from your own loins, and two sisters  in wedlock at the same time, except for what has already passed. Verily Allah is oft-forgiving more merciful. Also (forbidden to you) are women already married, except those (slaves) whom your right hands posses. Thus has Allah ordained for you. Except for these, al others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property – Desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them the dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if after the dower is prescribed ye agree mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you. And Allah is all knowing All wise.


a. Can you bring out one issue of rape perpetrated by Prophet Muhammed (saw)?

4. Did Muhammad respect the dowry rites in Aisha's case when he snatched her from her parents?.

Tabari IX:131
"My mother came to me while I was being swung on a swing between two branches and got me down. My nurse took over and wiped my face with some water and started leading me. When I was at the door she stopped so I could catch my breath. I was brought in while Muhammad was sitting on a bed in our house. My mother made me sit on his lap. The other men and women got up and left. The Prophet consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old. Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me.”

Shahan, to you, does that mean there was no dowry rites because sheep or camel wasn’t slaughtered? Did u say snatched, where was that liar also can you tell me the age of her then?

[b]5. Was Muhammad driven by sex even during his spiritual activities?

[[/b]b]Sunaan Abu Dawud: Book 13, Number 2380:
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) used to kiss her and suck her tongue when he was fasting.[/b]

I advise you to go and get book on etiquette of fasting. So you don’t know that someone may kiss one’s wife during fasting. IGNORANCE IS TRULY A DISEASE.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 173
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, "If you enter (your town) at night (after coming from a journey), do not enter upon your family till the woman whose husband was absent (from the house) shaves her pubic hair and the woman with unkempt hair, combs her hair" Allah's Apostle further said, "(O Jabir!) Seek to have offspring, seek to have offspring!"

Like I said in one of my posts, I thought you are a don in English Language but you are nothing short of a dullard. Is the above quote referring to the prophet?. Where has your senses gone to, didn’t you read the tone of the quote?

The above quote is telling you the relationship between husband and wife with regards to when a husband comes from a journey and shouldn’t do anything with the wife until she shaves and have her hair combed. What is the issue of prophet here? MAY GOD’S AMGER BE ON LIARS.

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3240:
Jabir reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) saw a woman, and so he came to his wife, Zainab, as she was tanning a leather and had sexual intercourse with her. He then went to his Companions and told them: The woman advances and retires in the shape of a devil, so when one of you sees a woman, he should come to his wife, for that will repel what he feels in his heart.

The issue of Hadeeth has been explained up.Can you do me a favour in God’s name by scanning and posting the above here?

6. Were the companions of Muhammad involved in the same sexual lewdness as the Quraish prophet?
Sahih Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 135:
Narrated Jabir: We used to practice coitus interruptus during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle
[Note carefully the implications of this: the Prophet's reaction to this practice seem more likely to have been one of consent and not diapproval.][/b]May God’s wrath be on liars. It will be highly appreciated if you can post the scanned Hadith here for people to see. Also you know too well that Muslims wont be able to lay their hands on all the Hadeeth, so posting the scanned page here will buttress your allegations.

[b]Sahih Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 136:
Narrated Jabir:We used to practice coitus interruptus while the Quran was being revealed.
[Notice that it was an ongoing and well-established practice among them while the Qur'an was being revealed.]

Same as above.

Sahih Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 137:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them. So we asked Allah's Apostle about it and he said, "Do you really do that?" repeating the question thrice, "There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existence, till the Day of Resurrection."

Same as above. MAY LIARS NEVER PROSPER

7. What was Muhammad's view of women in his sexual adventures?

Qur'an 2:223
"Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilth as ye will, and send (good deeds) before you for your souls, and fear Allah, and know that ye will (one day) meet Him. Give glad tidings to believers, (O Muhammad)."

I pray u don’t die in your ignorance o cos it will be too late then. Was the verse referring to Muhammed? The verse is on the relationship between husband and wife. Verse 222 is on keeping away from menstruating wife from v222.In verse from v222, Allah told Muhammed to say the below concerning husband having intercourse with wife during menses
Quran 2v222: They ask you concerning menstruation, say: that is an Adha (A HARMFUL THING FOR A HUSBAND TO HAVE SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WITH HIS WIFE WHILE SHE IS HAVING HER MENSES), therefore keep away from women during menses and go not unto them as Allah has ordained for you. Truly Allah loves those who purify themselves (by taking a bath and cleaning and washing thoroughtly their private parts, bodies for their prayers).

Now the verse continues on the husband-wife relationship.

Quran 2V223: your wives are a tilth for you, so go to your tilth, when or how you will and send (good deeds or ask Allah to bestow upon you pious offsprings) for your own selves beforehand ) . And fear Allah, and know that you are to meet Him before you for your souls, and fear Allah, and know that you are to meet Him ( in the Hereafter) and give good tidings to thje believers (O Muhammad saw).

I don’t blame you much because you bible never explained this to you, its incomplete copied, added, subtracted, plagiarized etc. That’s why the Holy Quran is called the complete and last revelation, it contains everything you may be needing. No wonder jesus said he needed to go so that the “paraclete’ will come and tell you things which he failed to tell you because he was never allowed to talk then.  The holy spirit that you Christians referred to as the paraclete has never told you new things aside those of jesus’

8. Where was Muhammad when he received the verses of the Qur'an:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 5 Book 57 Number 119
". . .the Prophet said, "O Um Salama! Don't trouble me by harming 'Aisha, for by God, the Divine Inspiration never came to me while I was under the blanket of any woman amongst you except her."

go and read the life History and you will read where he received the revelation in the cave. This is part of it.

Muhammad would seclude himself in the cave of Mount Hira and worship three days and nights. He would, whenever he wished, return to his family at Mecca and then go back again, taking wihim the necessities of life. Thus he continued to return to Khadijah from time to time until one day the revelation came down to him and the Angel Gabriel (Jibreel) appeared to him and said: "Read!" But as Muhammad was illiterate, having never received any instruction in reading or writing, he said to the angel: "I am not a reader." The angel took a hold of him and squeezed him as much as he could bear, and then said again: "Read!" Then Prophet said: "I am not a reader." The Angel again seized the Prophet and squeezed him and said: "Read! In the Name of Your Lord, Who has created (all that exists), has created a man from a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood). Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous, Who has taught (the writing) by the pen, has taught man that which he knew not." (96:1-4 Quran).

Then the Prophet repeated the words with a trembling heart. He returned to Khadijah from Mount Hira and said: "Wrap me up! Wrap me up!" She wrapped him in a garment until his fear was dispelled. He told Khadijah what had occurred and that he was becoming either a soothsayer or one smitten with madness. She replied: "Allah forbid! He will surely not let such a thing happen, for you speak the truth, you are faithful in trust, you bear the afflictions of the people, you spend in good works what you gain in trade, you are hospitable and you assist your fellow men. Have you seen anything terrible?" Muhammad replied: "Yes," and told her what he had seen. Whereupon, Khadijah said: "Rejoice, O dear husband and be cheerful. He is Whose hands stands Khadijah's life bears witness to the truth of this fact, that you will be the prophet to this people." Then she arose and went to her cousin Waraqa Ibn Naufal, who was old and blind and who knew the Scriptures of the Jews and Christians, and is stated to have translated them into Arabic. When she told him of what she had heard, he cried out: "Holy! Holy! Verily, this is the Namus (The Holy Spirit) who came to Moses. He will be the prophet of his people. Tell him this and bid him to be brave at heart." When the two men met subsequently in the street, the blind old student of the Jewish and Christian Scriptures spoke of his faith and trust: "I swear by Him in Who hand Waraqa's life is, Allah has chosen you to be the prophet of this people. They will call you a liar, they will persecute you, they will banish you, and they will fight against you. Oh, that I could live to those days. I would fight for these." And he kissed him on the forehead.

The first vision was followed by a considerable period, during which Muhammad suffered much mental depression. The angel spoke to the grieved heart of hope and trust and of the bright future when he would see the people of the earth crowding into the one true faith. His destiny was unfolded to him, when, wrapped in profound meditation, melancholy and sad, he felt himself called by a voice from heaven to arise and preach. O you (Muhammad) enveloped (in garments)! Arise and warn! And your Lord (Allah) magnify! (74:1-3 Quran) He arose and engaged himself in the work to which he was called. Khadijah was the first to accept his mission. She was to believe in the revelations, to abandon the idolatry of her people and to join him in purity of heart and in offering up prayers to Allah the Almighty.

, DO U STILL NEED MORE ABOUT HIS LIFE HISTORY, IF U DO, LET ME KNOW

9. In all of this, did Muhammad feel righteous or sinful about his career?

Sahih Bukhari, Invocations Volume 8, Book 75, Number 319
Narrated Abu Huraira: I heard Allah's Apostle saying." By Allah! I ask for forgiveness from Allah and turn to Him in repentance more than seventy times a day."
Now the facts are all here, and only a few are quoted. Question: did Muhammad do those things we read of in the Qur'an and Hadith, or did he not??

Based on the above , I don’t have much to say on that, its Allah that knows. Jesus of the bible was even accused of lying likewise the prophets in the bible accused of one thing or the other ranging from fornication, incest to killing innocent souls.

are u satisfied, so u can now anser my questions

To you babysin, davidyla,mrpataki,havila etc, take your time to read every allegations and get back to me.The lengthiness is due to number of allegations levelled at my Prophet by Shahan. Happy reading,

[b]Posted by: mrpataki
Insert Quote
@ Shahan,
Only an erudite could articulately state the points out like this.

Well said.

Lets see what he gets to say next. Am still waiting i guess [/b]
mrpataki,

Longest time. I have not been seeing you. It seems you are fading out. Hold on and stay focused

[b]Davidylan,
At babs787, me "hide" from your nebulous questions when i have the truth, the way and the life as my eternal guide? You must be kidding![/b]

The way, truth and life? (That will be another thread, Insha Allah)? Come off it and don’t tell me that that crap is still deceiving you. It is not even surprising that you still hooked on to that cos jesus even said that he speaks in parables so that you will not see, hear and understand in order to be punished.

[b]Embark on the ark my brother, i didnt even know mohammed had also exported that to the quran too.

The ark that leads to eternal destruction! [/b]

Are you judging? Here you go again, going against Jesus’ preaching. I can see that you really want to be like Jesus. . do you have you proof.

[b]babysin,

YOUNG BOYS

Homosexuality was and is widely practised in Islamic conutries. To please the homosexuals among his followers he promised them pre-pubescent boys in Paradise. So after committing plunder, loot, rape and murder in this life, the followers of Islam get "rewarded" by untouched virginal youths who are fresh like pearls.

The relevant verses from the Koran are:

Koran 52:24
Round about them will serve, to them, boys (handsome) as pearls well-guarded. [/b]

You did a good job copying and pasting from one of your sites but copied wrongly.MUST you lie to convince people. May God’s wrath be on liars. Read it from 22 below

Quran 52v22: And we shall provide them with fruit and meat such as they desire.
Quran 52v23: There they shall pass from hand to hand a wine cup, free from dirty, false, evil vain talk between them and free from sin (because it will be lawful for them to drink).
Quran 52v24: AND THERE WILL GO ROUND BOY-SERVANTS OF THEIRS, TO SERVE THEM AS IF THEY WERE PRESERVED PEARLS.

[b]Koran 56:17
Round about them will serve boys of perpetual freshness.[/b]

Like I said earlier, May Allah’s wrath be on the liar. Why not read to 18
Quran 56v17: immortal boys will go round them (SERVING)
Quran 56v18: WITH CUPS, AND JUGS, AND A GLASS OF FLOWING WINE

[b]Koran 76:19
And round about them will serve boys of perpetual freshness: if thou seest them, thou wouldst think them scattered pearls.[/b]

The verses talking about believers
Quran 76v5: verily, the pious and righteous shall drink of a cup (of wine) mixed with (water from a spring in Paradise called) Kafir.
Quran 76v6: A spring wherefrom the slaves of Allah will drink, causing it to gush forth abundantly.
Quran 76v7: They (are those who) fulfill (their) vows and they fear a Day whose evil will be wide-spreading.

Still talking about believers

Quran 76v12: And their recompense shall be paradise, and silken garments, because they were patient.

Quran 76v13: Reclining therein on raised thrones, they will see there neither the excessive heat of the sun nor the excessive bitter cold (as in Paradise there is no sun nor moon)

Quran 76v14: And the shade thereof is close upon them, and the bunches of fruit thereof will hang low within their reach.

Quran 76v15: AND AMONGST THEM WILL BE PASSED ROUND VESSELS OF SILVER AND CUPS OF CRYSTAL-

Quran 76v16; CRYSTAL-CLEAR, MADE OF SILVER. THEY WILL DETERMINE THE MEASURE THEREOF (ACCORDING TO THEIR WISHES)

Quran 76v17: AND THEY WILL BE GIVEN TO DRINK THERE OF A CUP (OF WINE) MIXED WITH GINGER.

QURAN 76V18: A SPRING THERE CALLED SALSABIL

Quran 76v19: AND ROUND ABOUT THEM WILL (SERVE) BOYS OF EVERLASTING YOUTH. IF YOU SEE THEM, YOU WOULD THINK THEM SCATTERED PEARLS.

Deaconess/evangelist shahan,
Firstly, I thank you and your friends in the like of babyosis, malik, havila, mrpataki etc in increasing my quest for Islamic knowledge (through my reading the Holy Quran each day) and exposing the lies hidden in your bible (due to my reading of the bible most times too) which you failed in admitting having found out the lies yourself(ves).The more you try to mislead me having been misled, the more the IMAN in ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM increases in me and my family having denounced christianity years back. Shahan, I can see that you are very knowledgeable in christianity doctrine than most your friends here on nairaland but couldn’t stand my questions on christianity.

Now to the main issue

You have just stumbled on your proofs. No Muslims challenged your posting of any verse or whatever but when it comes to Muslims asking you questions, you try ignoring the questions (when you don’t have answers) claiming that they have been lifted from sites. My questions are still left unanswered. You posted many allegations but limited your post above to incest which has been answered in other threads and I also told u to back every allegations with verses from the Quran, u failed in doing that but went lifting Daif Hadith for me. Like I said in my response to babysin, May God's wrath be on liars. You claimed that the Holy Quran is not book of Allah but couldn’t quote verses from it except giving me Hadith. You know too well that Muslims wont be able to lay hands on all the Hadiths . It will be highly appreciated if you can scan and post the pages of the Hadith quoted herein and if you can’t, limit your response to Quranic verses in which it is easier for everybody to lay hands on like I have been backing my posts with biblical chapters and verses. If you cannot scan and post it here, then I will be grateful if you can back your questions with verses from the Quran only . If you agree to this, the door is wide opened for round table dialogue.

[b]Qur'an 33:21
"Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah."

How true is this "beautiful pattern (of conduct)" will become clear as we examine the following verses. First, let us see how Muhammad handled sexual lewdness:[/b]

I still hold on to that unlike jesus of the bible that lied to his disciples, christians and also prophesized most things which never materialized.

Before I continue, let me take little of your time by explaining Hadeeth to you.

HADEETH

The various books of Hadith that we see in Muslim society today are the same in relation to Muhammed, as the gospels are to Jesus. They are both similar in that both were complied [in what we possess today] centuries after Muhammed and Jesus respectively [unlike the Koran which was memorized and written down at the time of its revelation and they both present no proof of authenticity [unlike the Koran in which numerous verses say: In this is a sign [or proof]&127;", and then asks you to refute it]. Therefore, objectively speaking both the Hadith and the gospels do not present any evidence as to be considered a 100% reliable representation of the words of the prophets, Muhammad and Jesus. Modern scholarship of both the gospels [the Jesus Seminar] and the Hadith finds them an unreliable representation of the words of the prophets or even their close companions.

Hadith have the same problems of authenticity as the gospels do. Hadith do not represent the words of Muhammed just like the gospels don't represent the words of Jesus in total. Both the Hadith and the Gospels are based on oral traditions that were written down, in the written form that we have today, centuries after the prophets, Muhammed and Jesus.

HISTORY OF COMPILATION OF HADITH:

Out of the books that the majority of Muslims believe in as being authentic, Sahih Bukhari is presented as being the MOST authentic. However a analysis of the history of the books shows that it is anything but authentic. Imam Bokhari the collector of the narration lived in a period over 230 years after the death of the prophet. Out of the 600,000 Hadith (narrations) that he collected, which were initially attributed to the prophet, he threw out as fabrication 592,700 of them and kept only 7300 as being genuine. They further reduce to 2762 Hadith after repetition.

The margin of error in these numbers is so great, that any rational inquirer can see that accepting the book of Bukhari as containing all authentic Hadith or even a majority of authentic Hadith is stupidity. Yet the majority of Muslims unquestionable and Christians accept it as "gospel" truth!

Quran is considered to be the first source of Islam. Hadeeth and Sunnah which is considered to be the secondary source in Islam, must find its validation from the Quran. The Quran is from God, after all, while Hadeeth and Sunnah , even if from the Prophet himself, are from humans.

There are many scientific and logical errors and contradictions in the Book of Bukhari as also in the Gospels and other books. Some examples:

1.The Koran talks of itself as being the only message that God intended the prophet to convey (Koran 42:52, 14:52;69:44;6:19 etc.). The Hadith of Muslim quotes the prophet as saying (Muslim, Zuhd 72, Hanbel 3/12,21,39) that no one should write anything from him other than the Koran. This particular Hadith is in harmony with the Koran, but then another Hadith contradicts not only the Koran but this Hadith. The prophet is quoted as asking, in Hanbel 2/162, Amr bin As, his companion to write everything he spoke.

2. The Koran claims to be the best Hadith (Ahsan ul hadeeth 39:23), and states that after Allah and his ayat (verses) no other Hadith is to be followed (Koran 45:6). The Koran also states that people have fabricated Hadith to mislead from the way of Allah (Koran 31:6 Lahwal Hadith). The Koran challenges people to produce a "Hadith" like the Koran (Koran 52:34) if they are truthful. The difference in language, style and content between the Koran and the other "Hadith" has been evident and is not denied even by those who believe in the Hadith as being genuine.

3. The Koran says in well over 15 places that it is "explained in detail (6:114 etc)." One word used is Tafseel which means a detailed explanation. It further says that it contains a Biyan or clear exposition of everything (16:89). God says in the Koran that He neglected nothing in the Book (6:38). The Koran talks about Moses' Book being Tamam (which means complete), and that the Koran is in no way less than that. The Koran also suggests that it should be Kaafi meaning "enough" for guidance by itself (29:51).

4. The Koran states explicitly that the messenger's duty was only "to convey the message (29:18)," and he said nothing on his own as his own sayings (69:44). It states that the message that the messenger conveyed was the Koran only (42:52 & 14:52 & 69:44). Therefore, to follow God's words in the Koran would be to follow the messenger , (4:80), as the words of the Koran is the messenger's speech (69:40). It also claims to be the Qawl or the speech of the messenger (69:40). The Koran claims that it contains answers to ALL relevant questions (25:33) and contains the best explanation (Tafseer) of itself (25:33 & 2:159). The Koran claims to be the Hukm or commandments of God, according to which humankind is to be judged (5:48). It also states that it is the Shariah or law/way with which God sent the messenger (45:18 & 42:13).

Who would know best on how to talk to humankind but their creator? Therefore, it makes no sense to say that outside sources better explain God's word.

Now let me take you to the verses of the Quran on the authenticity and consistency using 6 principles

PRINCIPLE 1 :
By the Book that makes THINGS CLEAR (Quran : 44.2)

PRINCIPLE 2 :
Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than God? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, EXPLAINED IN DETAIL." (Quran : 6.114)

PRINCIPLE 3:
God has revealed the most beautiful Message in the form of a Book, CONSISTENT WITH ITSELF repeating itself in various ways (Quran : 39.23)

PRINCIPLE 4:
And pursue not that of which thou hast no knowledge; for every act of hearing, or of seeing or of REASONING will be enquired into (Quran : 17.36).

PRINCIPLE 5:
Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than God, they would surely have found therein MANY CONTRADICTIONS (Quran : 4.82).

PRINCIPLE 6:
Blessed is He who sent down THE CRITERIA to His servant, that it may be an admonition to all creatures (Quran : 25.1)
Putting these 6 principles into simpler terms:
1- The Quran MAKES THINGS CLEAR or it clarifies things

2- The Quran is EXPLAINED IN DETAIL

3- The Quran is CONSISTENT IN ITSELF and so will use appropriate terminology for the same concepts

4- Anything which is to be accepted as 'knowledge' must be either seen, heard or reasoned,

5- If anything is from God, it will be consistent. On the other hand, if it is from humankind, it will contain many contradictions.

6- The Quran also calls itself AL-furqan or the criterion which shows that it's position must be the starting point by which to judge.

These principles may be brief, but you will see them being demonstrated throughout the Quran. Hadeeth and Sunnah must fall within their criteria if it is t

Let us now apply our principles to the idea of 'hadeeth and sunnah' :

There is not a single verse in the Quran referring to what we know as 'hadeeth and sunnah of Muhammad'.

PRINCIPLE 1 : The Quran is fully-detailed

The supporters of hadeeth and sunnah claim that hadeeth and sunnah provide the details of Islamic living. We can see that this simply isn't true. The Quran is not a general document. As we can see from the Quranic verse (24.58), the Quran is detailed when Allah wants us to be informed of the details. It only isn't detailed to those who apply an artificial standard of being 'detailed'

Despite the Quran being fully-detailed, we can see nothing of the system of classification which filters the hadeeth and sunnah. Hadeeth relies on a system of classification which tells us which hadeeth is reliable and which isn't. Yet this system is not mentioned in the Quran at all. Instead the system was created and developed by the scholars of sunnism and as expected, there are many standards by which to judge. Everything is relative to a scholar's opinion.

PRINCIPLE 3 : The Quran is consistent internally.

The Quran DOES use the words 'hadeeth' and 'sunnah'. For example :

1.
Such are the Signs of God, which We rehearse to thee in Truth; then in what HADEETH will they believe after God and His Signs? (Quran 45.6)

2.
Do they see nothing in the government of the heavens and the earth and all that God hath created? (Do they not see) that it may well be that their terms is nigh drawing to an end? In what HADEETH after this will they then believe? (Quran 7.185)

3.
Then what HADEETH after that, will they believe in? (Quran 77.50)
4.
God has revealed the most beautiful HADEETH (Quran 39.23)

As we can see, even though the Quran is consistent internally, it NEVER uses 'hadeeth and sunnah' to mean 'hadeeth and sunnah of Muhammad'. This was a later invention.

PRINCIPLE 4 : In order to accept something as knowledge, we must either HEAR it, SEE it, or use reason to determine it

Hadeeth and Sunnah by its very nature completes goes against this 4th principle. The hadeeth collection of the Sunnis came into thier final nearly 200 years after the Prophet. The compilers of hadeeth had no way of knowing if the hadeeth actually came from the narrator or not. Instead , they relied on either oral and written reports. As for the use of reason, there is very little or none. Some hadeeth exhibit an utter disregard for reason and blatant contradiction to the Quran itself. Furthermore, hadeeth collections have so many classifications by so many scholars, it's impossible to accept any hadeeth, since even Sahih al-bukhari , 'the second most correct book after the Book of Allah' according to sunnis are found with hadeeth which have been reclassified.

PRINCIPLE 5 : If anything is from God, it should not have any inconsistencies. Anything from mankind will have MANY contradictions.

@davidylan,

am not suprised at you, like brother like sister.

do the questions looked like copied ones?

common be a man and answer my questions. uve been posting questions nobody challenged you but when you were asked, you decided to hide claiming it was copied.

IF THE QUESTIONS LOOKED LENGHTY, PICK IT ONE BY ONE AND LETS DISCUSSS. the lenghty contradictions showed the countless number of fraud contained in your bible and as time goes on, i will be bringing all to limelight.

HYPOCRITES.

EMBAR ON THE ARK OF TODAY AS I DID AND BE SAVED AND DONT DIE IN YOUR IGNORANCE.

@shan,

what an escapist.

babs787,

You didn't surprise me at all by your lengthy rejoinder, and I'll just ignore the invectives for the moment. I could just keep up the argument for the fun of it, but from previous entries it doesn't seem you're getting any wiser when your concerns are addressed. I already knew where you were coming, and it's a laugh to read your response

slowpoke, getting wiser, when i threw questions at you and all u could do was beating sbout the bush. i knew you wouldnt be able to defend the allegations. SHAME ON YOU ONCE AGAIN.

Quote from: shahan on Yesterday at 07:40:53 PM
The questions you've raised are not new, neither are they personally yours - they're ferreted from Skeptic websites, and have been variously dealt with. . .

From the websites where you ferreted them?

none of your business and are you afraid?

So, you admit they are from skeptic websites and not personally yours. It is actually my business to know where you guys are coming from, and what your underlying motives are, before I bother to post any replies. Since you're desperate to just recycle such and fill the pages on Nairaland, I'd better leave you to keep chasing the wind. Interestingly enough, the same Skeptic websites have listed numerous contradictions in Qur'an, and I haven't seen Christians playing the same wild game of cut and paste as is characteristic of your crew.

PROFESSOR, I THOUGHT YOU ARE WELL VERSED IN ENGLISH LANGUAGE. WHERE IN MY STATEMENT DID I MENTION LIFTING IT FROM ANY SITE?

I TOLD YOU THAT ITS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. why not ask your sister copy cat to give you the site. do the questions look like copied one? ESCAPIST.

cos i said i still have more, sorry o, dont panic, i told you i was a christian before, i will teach you what you are not cleared about. i have many of your versions at home that i use in my research, so i didnt copy anything from anywhere, i read everything and lifted same from the bible.

the same Skeptic websites have listed numerous contradictions in Qur'an, and I haven't seen Christians playing the same wild game of cut and paste as is characteristic of your crew.

see liar, were you not here when babysin posted a link bringing out 'supposed contradictions' and also copying and pasting saying of some authors? no muslims challenged her and i dealt with her contraictions.

Now forget the issue of lifting. arent you ashamed of yourself? you leveled allegations against my prophet and i asked you to back it with verses from the Quran in which you failed.

i threw questions at you , rather than respond, all you could was telling that i lifted it. i thought you are wise but not knowing that you are fool.
defend yourself and answer my questions and stop this your hide and seek game.

YOU SHOULD BURY YOUR HEAD IN SHAME.
WHY DONT U ANSWER THE QUESTIONS AND STOP HIDING under the pretext of copying and pasting. no muslims challenged you when you've been copying and pasting. NOW I SHOWED YOU SOME OF THE LOOPHOLES AND U ARE TRYING TO AVOID THE QUESTIONS.

ALSO IN ANOTHER THREAD, QUESTIONS ASKED BY ISLAMPRIDE ARE STILL LEFT UNASWERED.

common professor, answer the questions and lets move ahead.

i still have questions for you on

1. sonship and only begotten son of jesus.
2 jesus as saviour.
3. jesus sent to the world.
4. jesus crucified.

but that will be when uve answered my questions.

@shahan,

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:21:01 PM
6. u claimed is 100% complete, where r the books mentioned here
a.   Book of the Covenant
Exodus 24:7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient.
There are those that believe the Book of the Covenant is found in Exodus chapters 20 through 23. There are no authoritative sources for this text.

You fail to see the obvious because you have become really caked up in heart and mind to reject truth. Please see verses 3 and 4 of Exodus 24 for your answer.

why not bring out the verse instead of directing me if you are sincere

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:21:01 PM
b.   Book of the Wars of the Lord
Numbers 21:14 Wherefore it is said in the book of the wars of the Lord, What he did in the Red sea, and in the brooks of Arnon,
Certain sources believe that this is to be found by drawing text from several Old Testament books. There are no authoritative sources for this text.

Again, as above.

bring it up

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:21:01 PM
c.   Book of Samuel the Seer
1 Chronicles 29:29 Now the acts of David the king, first and last, behold, they are written in the book of Samuel the seer, and in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the book of Gad the seer,

I & II Samuel.

bring out the verse

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:21:01 PM
d.   Nathan the Prophet
1 Chronicles 29:29 Now the acts of David the king, first and last, behold, they are written in the book of Samuel the seer, and in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the book of Gad the seer,
2 Chronicles 9:29 Now the rest of the acts of Solomon, first and last, are they not written in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite, and in the visions of Iddo the seer against Jeroboam the son of Nebat?

Nathan was a prophet in Israel - is there anything contained I & II Samuel and I & II Chronicles that were not corroborated in the book of Nathan the porphet?

escapist. bring the verse

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:21:01 PM
e.   Acts of Solomon
1 Kings 11:41 And the rest of the acts of Solomon, and all that he did, and his wisdom, are they not written in the book of the acts of Solomon?

And what essential message in Solomon's career are missing in the OT canon?

so "song of solomon" and "acts of solomon" is the same. ignorance is truly a disease.

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:21:01 PM
f.   NUMBERS 21:14
"Wherefore it is said in the BOOK OF THE WARS OF THE LORD, What He did in the Red Sea, and in the brooks of Arnon, "
Has any one during an Archeological dig(to prove the Bible) found this little gem?

I can't laugh enough at your blabs, babs787. If there were no records of any such events in Exodus and other books of the OT canon, one could sympathise with your poor scholarship. What you need to understand is the fact of the events being authentic and recorded in the OT itself. If your concern was for archeological confirmation of the Bible, there are loads of them. Not to even say a word about the unverifiable tales of the Qur'an.

same issue. bring out the verse.

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:21:01 PM
g.   JOSHUA10:13
", Is this not written in the BOOK OF JASHER?"
Does any one know where this book is?

As above.

bring the verse.

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:21:01 PM
h.   I KINGS 11:41
"And the rest of the acts of Solomon, and all that he did, and his wisdom, are not written in the BOOK OF THE ACTS OF SOLOMON?"
Could someone let me know where this book is?

Again, as explained above.

bring the verse

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:21:01 PM
i.   1 CHRONICLES 29:29
"Now the acts of David the king, first and last, behold, they are written a BOOK OF SAMUEL THE SEER, and in the BOOK OF NATHAN THE PROPHET, and in the BOOK OF GAD THE SEER,, "
Does anyone know where I may find these original books?

Already explained above.

as above

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:21:01 PM
Many more still coming

From the websites where you ferreted them?

none of your business and are you afraid?

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:21:01 PM
Also under the Mosaic Law,Another taking all women and children as spoils of war by Moses,Moses was a murderer before he became a Prophet,Killing all of the "suckling infants" by the thousands by Saul,Dashing little children against rocks in the book of Psalm!Praising the dashing of little children against rocks as a form of revenge,42 innocent children were killed using Wild Bears by Prophet Elisha.

I am still waiting where you mentioned that Jesus Christ commanded Christians to do the same. It's so hilarious that when Muhammad's atrocities are highlighted, muslim apologist will run to the same OT books that they condemn and which the Qur'an claims *allah sent down to Moses. On the one hand they deny the claims of the Qur'an, and then next quote those same books to "prove" that the Bible prophesied about Muhammad!

no muslims condemn the OT. are u denying the OT forgeting that jesus too never condemned it. was God of the OT different from NT?.

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:21:01 PM
Cutting the hands and feet of the enemies in the Bible, and hanging their alive bodies on trees until they DIE,David's Selective Murders,David so carelessly killed an innocent man for only telling him news,X-Rated Pornography in the Bible, by King Solomon!

This has all been thrashed out before on this Forum, at the end of which no muslim was able to deny the perversion of Muhammad's sexual escapades. What is really biting you guys is the fact that Muhammad's sin are so glaring; and by the very texts of the Qur'an and Hadith, he is a self-confessed fraud.

here you go again fool, u listed several allegations up and i asked u to back every allegation with verses from the Quran in which you failed in doing.

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:21:01 PM
Literally, women's vaginas and breasts taste like "wine",

Pity. You quote a runaway "research" of a muslim retard that based that idea on a verse in Ecclesiatis, and till this very day has been unable to defend it.

this is what u asked for

Song of Songs 8:1-3 "If only you were to me like a brother, who was nursed at my mother's breasts! Then, if I found you outside, I would kiss you, and no one would despise me.  I would lead you and bring you to my mother's house-- she who has taught me. I would give you spiced wine to drink [i.e., her vagina's semen!], the nectar of my pomegranates.  His left arm is under my head and his right arm embraces me."

She wished if he was her brother so that she wouldn't have to take him home in secret. Now if he was truly her husband, then what would prompt her to wish that he was her brother?   Were husbands back then not allowed to live with their wives?  If so, how did they then consummate and have children and raise generations and societies?  Were they allowed to live with each others for a while?

Her sexy breasts are quite "satisfying":

Let us look at Song of Solomon 8:10 "Dear brothers, I'm a walled-in virgin still, but my breasts are full— And when my lover sees me, he knows he'll soon be satisfied."  

She is a virgin with full swelling breasts.  When her lover meets her, he will be satisfied from those swelling breasts!  Obviously, she is referring to licking, sucking and other pornographic things that I can't mention here.  Believe me this verse is not talking about them worshiping GOD Almighty together when they meet!!  It is clearly and indisputably referring to graphic sex that involves her swelling breasts and other things such as intercourse.

Song of Songs 4:5 "Your two breasts are like two fawns, like twin fawns of a gazelle that browse among the lilies."  

Praising the bed that they had sex on:   Let us look at Song of Songs 1:16 "How handsome you are, my lover! Oh, how charming! And our bed is verdant"  

Song of Songs 1:2-4 "Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth-- for your love is more delightful than wine.   Pleasing is the fragrance of your perfumes; your name is like perfume poured out. No wonder the maidens love you!  Take me away with you--let us hurry! Let the king bring me into his chambers. We rejoice and delight in you; we will praise your love (i.e., semen) more than wine. How right they are to adore you!"  I don't think this would be appropriate for a kid under 18 to read.  Also, I don't think it is appropriate to have such open sexuality in a divine book anyway.

His right arm sexually feeling her body:   Let us look at Song of Songs 2:6 "His left arm is under my head, and his right arm embraces me."  

Let us look at Song of Songs 3:4 "Scarcely had I passed them when I found the one my heart loves. I held him and would not let him go till I had brought him to my mother's house, to the room of the one who conceived me."  So in other words, she was not married to him, and when she found him, she took him back to her bed room to have illegal sex with him?  If she were married to him, she wouldn't take him to her "mother's house".  She would take him to their house.

Showing off her breasts and vagina to him:

Sleeping with his sister: Let us look at Song of Songs 5:4 "I slept but my heart was awake. Listen! My lover is knocking: 'Open to me, my sister, my darling, my dove, my flawless one. My head is drenched with dew, my hair with the dampness of the night.'  I have taken off my robe (i.e., she showed his breasts and vagina to him. Underwears and bras didn't exist back then!) must I put it on again? I have washed my feet, must I soil them again?  My lover thrust his hand through the latch-opening; my heart began to pound for him."  What a disgusting way for someone to talk so pervertly about his sister and/or about her brother like that!!

said 'I will climb the palm tree; I will take hold of its fruit.'  May your breasts be like the clusters of the vine, the fragrance of your breath like apples, and your mouth like the best wine.  (The NIV Bible, Song of Songs 7:1-4, 8-9)"  

DO U STILL NEED MORE?










Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:21:01 PM
and brothers can "suck" their sisters' and lovers' privates,Fathers' fingers into their daughters' vaginas!
Under the Mosaic Law, fathers were allowed to do "Digital.

No wories - for you're just stating exactly what Muhammad and his followers did by claiming it is in the Mosaic law. to date, Olabowale's research on long beards still begs an erudite defence from you guys; belloti's sex and worship is still unresolved - and who is loudest about sexual perversion when Muhammad's companions claimed that the Qur'an was being revealed as they were having coitus interruptus? Even Muhammad himself confirmed that no revelation came to him at any other time than when he was on Aisha, satisfying his pedophilia.

look at her, escapist, i asked her question and rather than answer she went diverting issue. are those allegations false from your bible and what moral do they teach?
 

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:21:01 PM
1.   I want you to explain this, how could someone write his Obituary before his death.
"So Moses, DIED, and he (God Almighty) BURIED HIM (Moses), He was 120 years old WHEN HE DIED, and there arose not a prophet SINCE in Israel like unto Moses, (Deuteronomy 34:5-10)"

Moses penned those words exactly as revealed to him by God. The fact that he wrote about his own death did not make him cower like Muhammad would have; and the sincerity of that blessed servant is accentuated by the fact that he did not change a word of what was given him by inspiration - even though it recorded his own death before he actually died.

NA WA O CHRISTIANS. why cant u accept defeat that your bible is riddled with discrepancies. didnt you see how the was written. moses predicted his age before his death and penned down those words before his death. NA WA OOO.

DID U NOTICE THIS "HE WAS 120 YEARS BEFORE HIS DEATH". SO he wrote it himself? fool

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:21:01 PM
2. Christians believe that Joshua wrote the below book, please explain how he managed to write his death before his demised.
And it came to pass after these things, that Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of the Lord, DIED, … And they BURIED HIM … And Israel served the Lord all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders that over lived Joshua, and which had known all the works of the Lord, that he had done for Israel ….(Joshua 24:29-33)"

In just precisely the same way that Moses was inspired to write the Pentateuch. If you worry about the nature of prophetic language, that's simply because Muhammad could not see beyond his nose; and anything that he found contradictory, he and his idol *allah arranged to abrogate it and replace them with new pretences.

slowpoke, he predicted his own death too? didnt u read this "and israel served the Lord all the days of Joshua and all the days of the elders that over lived josua, " HE PREDICTED THAT TOO. NA WA O. DILLUSIONED.

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:21:01 PM
3. Christians believe that jesus was given the Torah. In your bible, which part comprises the torah from Mathew to revelation?

Are you that confused? Or, do you suddenly have your wires knotted to confuse the belief of Muslims for that of Christians?

slowpoke am not confused, i asked a question. which part is the Torah from mathew to revelation?

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:21:01 PM
4. also was Mathew the author of gospel of Mathew, please explain
And as Jesus passed forth thence, HE (Jesus) saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and HE (Jesus) saith unto HIM (Matthew), follow ME (Jesus) and HE (Matthew) arose, and followed HIM (Jesus). (Matthew 9:9)"

Ohh babs787, how does that verse disprove Matthew as the author of the Gospel bearing his name in the NT?

so mathew used the word "saw a man named mathew", "saith unto Him", "annd he arose and followed him" for himself. KAI, CHRISTIANS. Professor

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:21:01 PM
5. explain the below contradictions please
a. Jesus' last words
Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" , Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."
Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."
John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

What is the contradiction in those verses? What you call contradictions fail to consider that these are sequences of events that transpired that very day. Jesus said and did all those things in sequence; and if you carefully check it out, you find that He cried out more than once. See it in Matt. 27:50 -

mathew 27v50: and jesus cried again with loud voice and yielded up his ghost.

look at this escapist. note the below verses
Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."
John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."[/b]

the first said, he cried and gave up the ghost while the second said it is finished and gave up the ghost after receving the vinegar. where does the issue of crying again come in.
it was only mathew that used the word to buttress his saying. NA WA O. it showed clearly that they were not eye witnesses.

(a) "about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice. . . Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice. . ."

The problem is that many people suppose the cry was only once and then quickly see a contradiction. Help yourself, babs787. . . take a very, very careful look at any verse before you draw inferences. When you collate all the references together, you can't miss the point. I will be more than willing to share them with you if you still have concerns; but read all inclusive instead of in isolation: Matt. 27:34-50; Luke 23:46; Mark 15:22-37; John 19: 29-30.

professor.stop acting like one being dillusioned. none of the other verses laid claim to jesus shouting again, it was only mathew that said so (bring out your claim), even john said he died after he drank the vinegar (that was supposed to give stimulating effect)

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:21:01 PM
b. Judas died how?
"And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." (Matt. 27:5)
"And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." (Acts 1:18)

Again, Matt. 27:5 summarizes what Judas did as he committed sucide (he "went and hanged himself"; Acts 1:18 rather shows how he died ("falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst". Obviously, in his suicide attempt, Judas fell headlong and burst in the midst - which does not negate the summary statement that he committed suicide.

dillusioned professor, am not asking whether he committed suicide or not, all am asking is "how did he die".

professor, did he hanged himself upside down or how could someone that hanged fell headlong (maybe he rolled over).

from your post "obviously in his suicide attempt he fell headlong"

are you that blind as not to see that he hanged himself.


[b]Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 05:21:01 PM
c. Did those with Saul/Paul at his conversion hear a voice?
ACT 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
ACT 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.

In Acts 22, Paul spoke Hebrew to the crowd (vs. 2) and used a very familiar expression, "to hear not the voice" which meant "to not understand what is being heard". You can see this again as used in John 8:43 "Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word." The context shows clearly that the crowd heard the sound of the voice speaking; but they did not understand the substance what they heard.

SO THE SAME HEBREW WAS USED IN ENGLISH LANGUAGE? haba read john yourself, "do not understand" is different from "to hear not the voice'. understand MEANS THEY HEARD BUT DO NOT UNDERATAND WHILE THE OTHER MEANS THEY DID NOT HEAR ANY VOICE. NA WA O CONFUSED PROFESSOR

So, in Acts 9:7 Paul's companion were "hearing a voice" (the sound), but they did not understand the message (the substance). Compare the same sense in I Cor. 14:11 - "Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice [/b]

professor, the issue is 'hearing a voice, but seeing no man'. we are not laying emphasis on message. "KNOW NOT THE MEANING"  MEANS THAT HE DIDNT UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF WHAT HAS BEEN SAID WHILE "HEARING A VOICE" MEANS THEY HEARD A VOICE BUT "THEY DID NOT SEE ANY MAN" MEANS THEY DID NOT SEE ANY MAN BUT HEARD ONLY VOICE.
NA WA O CONFUSED AND LEARNED PROFESSOR.


professor, read again and stop blabbing 'but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me'. to you it means that they do not understand what is being said, KAI!!!
PENKELEMES PROFESSOR.

I KNOW YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DEFEND YOUR BIBLE. THE ABOVE IS JUST A TIP OF THE ICE BERG. AS WE CONTINUE I WILL BE POSTING THE REST TO YOU AND ALSO THE UNFULFILLED PROPHESIES PROVIDED YOU ANSWER THE QUESTIONS COS YOU FAILED WOEFULLY AND UNABLE TO ANSWER THE SIMPLE QUESTIONS.

GO OVER MY QUESTIONS, YOUR RESPONSE AND MY COMMENT TO IT TOO.

go throgh these again having failed my first questions.

1. jesus coming never materialises
mathew 10v23: but when they persecute you in this city, flee ye unto another city, for verily, i say unto you, ye shall not have gone over the cities of israel, till the son of man be come.

the disciples of jesus fled and have now perished for 2000 years, with no sign of the return of jesus.

2. prediction of early 2nd coming was unfilfilled
mathew 24v29-30: , the son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory and he will send out his angel with a loud trumphet call, truly i say to you, THIS GENERATION WILL NOT PASS AWAT TILL A THESE THINGS TAKE PLACE.

but all the generations have perished and hardly could we fnd any of them again, yet jesus hasnt come.

3. paul expectation not fulfilled.
paul counted himself among those who will be alive durng the second coming of jesus. he even counted himself among those who will meet him in the air

1st thesalonian 4V17: and the death in christ will rise first, then WE WHO ARE ALIVE, WHO ARE LEFT, SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR.

but paul has died and almost 21st century after jesus has not appeared with his heavenly host.

4. sign of faith unfulfilled

mark 16v17-18): and these signs shall follow them that believe, in my name they shall cast out devils, they shall speak in new tongues, they SHALL TAKE UP SERPENTS AND IF THEY DRINK DEALY THING, IT SHALL NOT HURT THEM , They shall lay hands on the sick and shall recover.

but some christians have died as a result of drinking poison. infact, many christiand lost their lives as a result of being bitten by snakes and many are staying long even in the hospital awaiting cure.

I AM NOT SUPRISED AT THE ABOVE VERSE. there was this incident that happened in the early 90's at the zoo in Ibadan. as a result of the saying above, the pastor wanted to try the above verse and went straight into the lion's cage (did you say daniel of nigeria) with the hope that the above verse will bail him out. but alas the lion killed the man and if not for the keepers, the lion would have devoured the man, the keepers killed the lion and removed the man's carcass. A VERY GOOD PROMISE INDEED

babysin,

Before i go into your request. u probably said King James is the widely accepted just cos i showed you missing verses in other versions. if really KJV is the most accepted. kindly do justice to this
romans 7v15 missing in king James version but present in others
or

mathew 17v21, mark 9v44, mark 9v46, luke 9v56 etc present in KJV but absent in others

here is your request and lets movefrom here

prophet naked,

genesis 9v21: noah drank the wine and became drunk, and lay uncovered in his tent and ham saw the unclothedness of his father.

2nd samuel 6v20: david dances naked before the people and before the Lord.

fornicators
judge 16v1: and he went to Gaza and there he saw a harlot and he went into her!!!

lots daughter commit incest with him!!!!

gen 19v30: lot went up out of zoar and dwelt in the hills with his two daughters. and the first born said to the younger "our father is old, and there is not a man to come to us after the manner of all the earth. come let us make our father drink wine an[b]d we will lie with him[/b] that we may preserve offspring through our father. so they made their father drink wine that night and the first born went in and lay with her father he did not know when she lay down or when she arose.
(CONTINUE WITH THE STORY)

JUDAH WITH HIS DAUGHTER IN-LAW

gen 38v15: when he saw her, he thought her to be a[b] harlot[/b], for she had covered her face. he went over to her at the roadside and said, "come let me come into you' for he did not know that she was his daughter in law. she said, "what will you give me that you may come into me? he answered , i will end you a kid dfrom the flock, so he gave them to her and went into her and she conceived by him. about three months later, judah was told,'tamar you daughter has played the HARLOT and morover SHE IS WITH CHILD BY HARLOT.

READ ABBOUT DAVID TOO 2SAM 11V1.

READ DAVID'S SON WITH HIS SISTER 2ND SAMUEL 13V1

Deuteronomy
Chapter 20
Deut 20v10: when u draw near to a city to fight against it, offer terms of peace to it. And it its answer to you is peace and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall do forced labour for you and shall serve you. But if it makes no peace with you, THEN U SHALL BESIEGE IT,  U SHALL PUT ALL THE MALES TO THE SWORD, but the women and the little ones, the cattle and everything else in the city all its spoils, u shall TAKE AS BOOTY FOR YOURSELVES AND U SHALL ENJOY THE SPOIL OF YOUR ENEMIES.

Deuteronomy
Chapter 21
18-22

18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: 19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. 22 And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree

I wonder what Christians have to say about that? So as you can see, a bad kid is stoned, and bad men are hanged on trees for all to see. I would really love to see what Christians have to say to these verses. Remember the God that the Christians believe in is the same God of the OT, so hence this is God (Or God Jesus as termed by some Christians) making these commands. So God commanded people to kill their bad kids, to kill bad people and hang them on a tree.

rape

Numbers 31: 17-18



17. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.


The Jewish soldiers were commanded by “God” in the bible to keep the woman children (little girls) for themselves! In addition, they commanded to kill every woman that hath know a man by lying with him. How these soldiers in those days know if the girls are virgin or not? Simply they verify it by raping them and if the Jews discovered that they are non-virgins then they kill them as they commanded by “God”.

said 'I will climb the palm tree; I will take hold of its fruit.'  May your breasts be like the clusters of the vine, the fragrance of your breath like apples, and your mouth like the best wine.  (The NIV Bible, Song of Songs 7:1-4, 8-9)"  



DO U STILL NEED MORE?

@shahan,

Posted by: shahan
Insert Quote
@babs787,

Lol. . . what coherent sentence have you made in your rejoinder? I'm still here anytime you choose to grow up and neatly outline your concerns.

Shahan,

Why cant u stop this your hide and seek game. I never expected you to come on board with this response.

U posted allegations asking to confirm if they were all true and I told you to back every allegation with QURANIC VERSE. Having found out that your allegations are baseless, you decided to turn table

I told you in my earlier post that your allegations are baseless and if you know you are truthful, supply each allegation with Quranic Verse and if you cant, SHAME ON YOU for posting what you cant defend

If you are still trying to come up with something reasonable to back your allegations, u may ponder on these and supply me answers.

Christians believe that Moses wrote the first five books,

1. I want you to explain this, how could someone write his Obituary before his death.
"So Moses, DIED, and he (God Almighty) BURIED HIM (Moses), He was 120 years old WHEN HE DIED, and there arose not a prophet SINCE in Israel like unto Moses, (Deuteronomy 34:5-10)"

2. Christians believe that Joshua wrote the below book, pls explain how he managed to write his death before his demised.
And it came to pass after these things, that Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of the Lord, DIED, … And they BURIED HIM … And Israel served the Lord all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders that over lived Joshua, and which had known all the works of the Lord, that he had done for Israel ….(Joshua 24:29-33)"

3. Christians believe that jesus was given the Torah. In your bible, which part comprises the torah from Mathew to revelation?

4. also was Mathew the author of gospel of Mathew, pls explain
And as Jesus passed forth thence, HE (Jesus) saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and HE (Jesus) saith unto HIM (Matthew), follow ME (Jesus) and HE (Matthew) arose, and followed HIM (Jesus). (Matthew 9:9)"

5. explain the below contradictions pls

a. Jesus' last words
Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" , Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."
Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."
John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

b. Judas died how?
"And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." (Matt. 27:5)
"And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." (Acts 1:18)

c. Did those with Saul/Paul at his conversion hear a voice?
ACT 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
ACT 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.

6. u claimed is 100% complete, where r the books mentioned here

a. Book of the Covenant
Exodus 24:7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient.
There are those that believe the Book of the Covenant is found in Exodus chapters 20 through 23. There are no authoritative sources for this text.

b. Book of the Wars of the Lord
Numbers 21:14 Wherefore it is said in the book of the wars of the Lord, What he did in the Red sea, and in the brooks of Arnon,
Certain sources believe that this is to be found by drawing text from several Old Testament books. There are no authoritative sources for this text.

c. Book of Samuel the Seer
1 Chronicles 29:29 Now the acts of David the king, first and last, behold, they are written in the book of Samuel the seer, and in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the book of Gad the seer,

d. Nathan the Prophet
1 Chronicles 29:29 Now the acts of David the king, first and last, behold, they are written in the book of Samuel the seer, and in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the book of Gad the seer,
2 Chronicles 9:29 Now the rest of the acts of Solomon, first and last, are they not written in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite, and in the visions of Iddo the seer against Jeroboam the son of Nebat?

e. Acts of Solomon
1 Kings 11:41 And the rest of the acts of Solomon, and all that he did, and his wisdom, are they not written in the book of the acts of Solomon?

f. NUMBERS 21:14
"Wherefore it is said in the BOOK OF THE WARS OF THE LORD, What He did in the Red Sea, and in the brooks of Arnon, "
Has any one during an Archeological dig(to prove the Bible) found this little gem?

g. JOSHUA10:13
", Is this not written in the BOOK OF JASHER?"
Does any one know where this book is?

h. I KINGS 11:41
"And the rest of the acts of Solomon, and all that he did, and his wisdom, are not written in the BOOK OF THE ACTS OF SOLOMON?"
Could someone let me know where this book is?

i. 1 CHRONICLES 29:29
"Now the acts of David the king, first and last, behold, they are written a BOOK OF SAMUEL THE SEER, and in the BOOK OF NATHAN THE PROPHET, and in the BOOK OF GAD THE SEER,, "
Does anyone know where I may find these original books?

Many more still coming

babysin,

by babs

Quote
Prophet Muhammad on the other hand loved children even those who threw stones at him in the city of Al-Ta'if

He loved to rape them you mean?

you can see the highest level of hypocrisy pepetrated by this ass. why not challenge me to what i wrote in the likes of Pedophilia with 3-year old slave girls in the Bible,Forcing 3-year old slave girls into sex during the Mosaic Law in the Bible,More on Pedophilia and Rape in the Bible,Terror in the Bible by a number of Prophets,Pregnant women will be ripped open,The NT punishes children with death,Terrorism: "killing of all the boys and non-virgin women"!
Also under the Mosaic Law,Another taking all women and children as spoils of war by Moses,Moses was a murderer before he became a Prophet,Killing all of the "suckling infants" by the thousands by Saul,Dashing little children against rocks in the book of Psalm!
Praising the dashing of little children against rocks as a form of revenge,42 innocent children were killed using Wild Bears by Prophet Elisha.

Cutting the hands and feet of the enemies in the Bible, and hanging their alive bodies on trees until they DIE,David's Selective Murders,David so carelessly killed an innocent man for only telling him news,X-Rated Pornography in the Bible, by King Solomon!
Literally, women's vaginas and breasts taste like "wine", and brothers can "suck" their sisters' and lovers' privates,Fathers' fingers into their daughters' vaginas!
Under the Mosaic Law, fathers were allowed to do "Digital.

ALL THESE IN THE HOLY BOOK (HOLIEST BOOK)

babysis,

Posted by: babyosisi
Insert Quote
Babs,you are yet to make any sense.

probably you are not with your senses.u posted a link and i referred you to another where you have your ailment diagnosed.

when you post a link that starts off denying 9/11,should anyone take you seriously?
Isn't it obvious you're in the same category as the lunatic Iranian president that denies the holocaust.
What more can I say?

really? i thought you are with your senses but you are not. who could be more be senseless than you babysis, grabbing the heading and not waiting to read the whole thing. who could be more unjust than you? i dont have to be dragging issues with you here, go to the body and contact me and stop being an escapist.

u didnt even mention about the "supposed contradictions" u referred me. am not suprised at you, having been defeated, u decided to turn table to another issue. why dont you go over these too, Pedophilia with 3-year old slave girls in the Bible,Forcing 3-year old slave girls into sex during the Mosaic Law in the Bible,More on Pedophilia and Rape in the Bible,Terror in the Bible by a number of Prophets,Pregnant women will be ripped open,The NT punishes children with death,Terrorism: "killing of all the boys and non-virgin women"!
Also under the Mosaic Law,Another taking all women and children as spoils of war by Moses,Moses was a murderer before he became a Prophet,Killing all of the "suckling infants" by the thousands by Saul,Dashing little children against rocks in the book of Psalm!
Praising the dashing of little children against rocks as a form of revenge,42 innocent children were killed using Wild Bears by Prophet Elisha,

Prophet Muhammad on the other hand loved children even those who threw stones at him in the city of Al-Ta'if.Maiming of the enemies' bodies under Moses' and David's Laws:
Cutting the hands and feet of the enemies in the Bible, and hanging their alive bodies on trees until they DIE,David's Selective Murders,David so carelessly killed an innocent man for only telling him news,X-Rated Pornography in the Bible, by King Solomon!
Literally, women's vaginas and breasts taste like "wine", and brothers can "suck" their sisters' and lovers' privates,Fathers' fingers into their daughters' vaginas!
Under the Mosaic Law, fathers were allowed to do "Digital.

go over those and get back at me for more

[b]@professor shahan,

Posted on: Yesterday at 05:14:29 PMPosted by: shahan
Insert Quote
@babs787,

Yes, I saw your "response up" and was posting this when you anticipated me! Here it is anyway:

Refreshing to read your rejoinder with such forthrightness and calm disposition - I just wish the rascals like Jacksnake and islampride who think they're trying to help your cause would borrow a leaf from you.

In anycase, I'm not quite satisfied with your propositions (or, allegations?) of anyone lying against Muhammad by the various links you proffered; so no cheap glory there. Infact, it is because of my concern thereto that I offered the framework for evaluating the life and career of Muhammad himself, notwithstanding what other websites say about the subject.

stop this your cock and bull story and lets get to the issue. you raised questions up and i responded, just bring those verses from the Quran and we start from there.

Unfortunately, you sound very askance to pretend you haven't seen the quotes from the Qur'an and the Hadith that have flooded so many threads to the point. What I offered in that framework was to invite your confirmation or otherwise denial that the quotes are not true, and that Muhammad could not have done what those quotes insinuate.

i didnt pretend and will never do that. all i ask from you is to supply each question with Quranic verse. u saw my post to your questions, go over again and bring the verses that made HIM to be a sinner.

I quite appreciate your call for posting some of those references - which I will oblige you on the basis of your denial of the questions in the framework offered. While I await your response, please accept my offer to dress warmly for what follows. [/b]

once again, back every claim with Quranic verse and no copying and pasting from anywhere. supply with relevant Quranic verses to buttress your claims.

u r welcome

babysis,

Posted by: babyosisi
Insert Quote
Babs,you are yet to make any sense.

probably you are not with your senses.u posted a link and i referred you to another where you have your ailment diagnosed.

when you post a link that starts off denying 9/11,should anyone take you seriously?
Isn't it obvious you're in the same category as the lunatic Iranian president that denies the holocaust.
What more can I say?

really? i thought you are with your senses but you are not. who could be more be senseless than you babysis, grabbing the heading and not waiting to read the whole thing. who could be more unjust than you? i dont have to be dragging issues with you here, go to the body and contact me and stop being an escapist.

u didnt even mention about the "supposed contradictions" u referred me. am not suprised at you, having been defeated, u decided to turn table to another issue.

[b]@professor shahan,

Posted on: Yesterday at 05:14:29 PMPosted by: shahan
Insert Quote
@babs787,

Yes, I saw your "response up" and was posting this when you anticipated me! Here it is anyway:

Refreshing to read your rejoinder with such forthrightness and calm disposition - I just wish the rascals like Jacksnake and islampride who think they're trying to help your cause would borrow a leaf from you.

In anycase, I'm not quite satisfied with your propositions (or, allegations?) of anyone lying against Muhammad by the various links you proffered; so no cheap glory there. Infact, it is because of my concern thereto that I offered the framework for evaluating the life and career of Muhammad himself, notwithstanding what other websites say about the subject.

stop this your cock and bull story and lets get to the issue. you raised questions up and i responded, just bring those verses from the Quran and we start from there.

Unfortunately, you sound very askance to pretend you haven't seen the quotes from the Qur'an and the Hadith that have flooded so many threads to the point. What I offered in that framework was to invite your confirmation or otherwise denial that the quotes are not true, and that Muhammad could not have done what those quotes insinuate.

i didnt pretend and will never do that. all i ask from you is to supply each question with Quranic verse. u saw my post to your questions, go over again and bring the verses that made HIM to be a sinner.

I quite appreciate your call for posting some of those references - which I will oblige you on the basis of your denial of the questions in the framework offered. While I await your response, please accept my offer to dress warmly for what follows. [/b]

once again, back every claim with Quranic verse and no copying and pasting from anywhere. supply with relevant Quranic verses to buttress your claims.

u r welcome

babysis,

Nice summary Shahan,same questions on my mind.
answer the questions babs rather than your typical escapist attitude.
You have a long way to go since there are over 400 contradictions.
I just gave you a sample,the others will come later.

Also babs I noticed your absence on the "glorious Koran" thread when the going got rough.
Just to intimate you,we now know Muhammad hit his child bride Aisha on the chest and he didn't do it with a tooth brush.

answers have been supplied for your questions, go over there and read. i asked u then the bible's stand on unfaithfulness but u pushed that aside.

over 400 contradictions? when you are still having problem with the link u posted. i thought uve learnt from your dillusioned authors but u never did.

shahan,

hope uve seen my response up.

davidylan

Bravo @ blabs787

Another wonderful blanket cover for ignorance and astute escape strategy. Simply refer us to dubious links and copy and paste!

blanket cover for ignorance and astute escape strategy? why do you write as someone of unsound mind. u sister babysis posted a dubious link in which she's been hiding and extracting her lies from and i did same by referring and posting link where she will get response perfectly to her link. u never challenged her for posting only link but rather u challenged me for posting same. escape strategy indeed!!

babysis,

Nice summary Shahan,same questions on my mind.
answer the questions babs rather than your typical escapist attitude.
You have a long way to go since there are over 400 contradictions.
I just gave you a sample,the others will come later.

Also babs I noticed your absence on the "glorious Koran" thread when the going got rough.
Just to intimate you,we now know Muhammad hit his child bride Aisha on the chest and he didn't do it with a tooth brush.

am not suprised at your defensive strategy having been knocked out and exposed lies of your authors, u still went ahead to call me escapist. u quoted a link and i referred u to a link too, where does the issue of escapist comes?

shahan,

it seems u r satisfied with the link i provided up and thereby decided to change topic.

Now, this presents vital questions. Let's develop a framework for examining the claims of Muhammad as a 'prophet' - afterall, at the end of the day, we're seekers of truth that will ultimately lead to salvation. I offer a few in this regard:

1. Are the quotes taken from the Qur'an and Hadiths exposing Muhammad on this Forum all lies??

give me one from the Quran to start with


2. Did Muhammad not do the very things that we read of in the Qur'an and the Hadiths already quoted on the Forum?

back it with Quranic verse pls

3. Does the true God sanction the lifestyle exemplified by Muhammad?

bring it from the Quran pls

4. Are you very certain that Muhammad never used deception and lies or encouraged them in his life and career as a "prophet"?

bring it for me from the Quran and i will refer to a place in the bible where jesus lied to his disciples

5. Could you count Muhammad as a more sinful 'prophet' in contrast to any other prophet mentioned in the Qur'an and the Bible?

bring it out from the Quran and lets thrash it out if u r truthful

6. Why would you (if at all) suppose Muhammad would not be more severely judged for his atrocities than any other 'prophet' in the Qur'an and the Bible??

what atrocities? give me just two out of those atrocities u r claiming from my book pls.

This will help us see who the Quraish prophet was, regardless of any misreadings between folks on other websites

shahan,

back your claims with Quranic verses if you are truthful and lets move on from there.

continuation ,

3-  Proofs of Silas' Partial Quotes, Misquotes and Lies:

See proofs of Silas' intentional misquotes of an Islamic book to prove his lie.

Another article where Silas intentionally gave partial quotes to make Prophet Muhammad look like a violent offender instead of a self-defender!


4-  Rebuttals from external web sites:

Rebuttals to the Answering Islam team.  By brother Calis Finest.  Several of his articles are directly refuting some of Quennel Gale and Sam Shamoun's articles.

5-  A rude email from the "Answering Islam" arrogant Christians sent to me:

Note:  Below in this section you'll find a sub section called "My response to Jochen Katz's rebuttal".

The following is an email I received.  I have bolded, colored and underlined in dark green the ridiculous remarks they made in the "PS" section.  Please be advised that I have left the contents of the email as is.  I did not alter it or modify the words in the email in anyway!

Also, please be advised that I don't have a definite proof that this email was indeed from them.  Some people can send emails covered with different aliases.  So in other words, a person can send a bad email under the sender "Osama Abdallah".   But however, looking at the style of their words, this email does look authentic to me, and that's why I decided to post it.  The reason why I say this is because I was called a "stupid", "worthless", etc, person by this arrogant team before.  I've also been treated as someone who is not even worth responding to.   This is all despite the fact that I've literally wasted some of their team members in debates before when we clashed.  My favorite topic to discuss with them and enjoy myself wasting them in is: Most of the Bible's books' and gospels' original authors are not even known to us today according to the Bible's theologians and historians.  They are completely speechless when this topic is discussed, and all they do is change topics and give lengthy and irrelevant replies to confuse/divert the reader.

The reason they do this is because this article (if it convinces the reader, which it did with so many already) immediately wipes out all of the New Testament (NT) verses that trinitarians use to prove Jesus as the Creator of the Universe.  Jesus himself never spoke those verses nor ever wrote them or wrote anything in the NT.  They were instead written by what Christians believe were the disciples of Jesus.  This article proves that there is absolutely no proof what so ever that the disciples of Jesus actually wrote the current books and gospels of the NT of today.  And in fact, I even exposed some extremely important "trinitarian" verses that don't exist in all of the so-called "original" Bibles such as the KJV and RSV and others.  These bibles actually conflict with each others on the authenticity and acceptance of these verses.  The verses don't exist in all of these so-called "original" Bibles.

Anyway, here is the email:

Subj:    Request from Answering-Islam.
Date:    6/30/03 5:34:45 PM Central Daylight Time
From:    dialogue@answering-islam.org (dialogue@answering-islam.org)
To:    ISLM4EVR1@aol.com (ISLM4EVR1@aol.com)

Dear Osama Abdallah,

The Answering-Islam Team would like to ask you to remove the following false-informative articles from your web site;

http://www.answering-christianity.com/death.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/by_the_sword.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/ntpoly.htm

It offends many Christians as it provides lies and false information. Thank you for your understanding.

Politely and respectfully yours,
The Answering-Islam Team

PS: Please do not decide to ignore our request and/or post this e-mail on your idiotic website. You will only make yourself look very stupid as we deny the whole incident, especially if you post the PS along with it.


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My response to Jochen Katz's rebuttal:

My rebuttal to Jochen Katz on "A rude email sent to me by the Answering Islam team" (I proved him to be a double-faced hypocrite with my captured image against him and his team members).

My response to Jochen Katz rebuttal to my article "Exposing the Cheap lies of the Answering Islam team".   Here I showed how Jochen Katz contradicted himself regarding the forged email that he created with my personal truthspeask@answering-christianity.com email addres

http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/#internal[/b]


http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/quranerr.htm

continuation,

ur authors even went to the extent of forging email address of one of the islamic sites in order to confuse u more.

the below exposed your authors

Exposing the lies of the "Answering Islam" team:

This section is dedicated to expose the Christian liars of the "Answering Islam" team who have just gone way too far in their cheap attempts to not only attack GOD Almighty's True Religion of Islam, but also make up lies against some of the young Muslim scholars who are actively defending Islam on the internet.



First lie:

The liars of the "Answering Islam" team claimed that brother Qais Ali had left Islam. Qais Ali is a personal friend of mine. Not only he and I were involved in debates on Excite's Message boards and America Online Islamic Chat Rooms, but I also know him in person. We honest to GOD Almighty spoke on the phone.

Qais never left Islam!. It was a cheap Christian liar who named himself "Qais Ali" and said all kinds of negative things about Islam. He is obviously a member of the "Answering Islam" team since they were so swift in posting the lie about brother Qais Ali leaving Islam. They obviously were monitoring the fake Qais Ali and documented his lies. They had a plan.

See my further rebuttal and exposition to Jochen Katz's weak and decieving references that did not provide any proof or evidence that brother Qais Ali left Islam:

My rebuttal to Jochen Katz on "Exposed Lies of the Answering Islam team".

My response to Jochen Katz rebuttal to my article "Exposing the Cheap lies of the Answering Islam team".   Here I showed how Jochen Katz contradicted himself regarding the forged email that he created with my personal truthspeask@answering-christianity.com email address.



Second lie:

It had come to my attention that a member of the "Answering Islam" team had posted fake personal quotes of mine that supposedly prove that I am a racist and a hater to blacks and Jews.

The liar who is called Quennel Gale is the member that I am referring to. He and I met on the ldjnet Message Board that no longer exists, and he repeatedly posted stuff under my name to confuse the reader.

The Message board did not require any login id. All you had to do is go to their web site at www.ldjnet.com/islam (which no longer exists), click on "Enter Forum", and you will be inside the board. You can either read what's posted in there, or you can post a new topic/response by simply clicking on either "Start a new topic" or "Respond to topic", enter your (1) Name, (2) Email address, (3) Topic description and then (4) The contents of your post.

One thing that is very good on that message board was, it allowed you to see the Internet IP Address of the post. Quennel Gale had so many of those Internet IP Addresses (because he posted from work, home and school and other places), and he also had many fake Characters such as "Muhammad Ibn Elohim", "Quennel Gale", "TAQ", "Osama Abdallah", etc,

This liar from the team of "Answering Islam" typed in my name "Osama Abdallah", and my email address truthspeaks@answering-christianity.com and posted all kinds of garbage. He obviously had a plan since you can see all of his fake Osama's posts listed on his site under the topic "Osama's hate for everyone". This liar posted lies under my name and now he has them listed on his site to make me look bad and racist. I am not responsible for everyone who names himself as "Osama Abdallah" on Message Boards. He obviously had a plan like the rest of the cheap "Answering Islam" team. He did it, and now he has it posted on his site.

This coward also uses an "Email Bomb" software against me.  I often receive 50 to 100 emails from him all having the same "Subject".  I also receive "death threats" emails which grammar look identical

Third lie:

The following was an email sent to me by brother Shakoor Ahmed; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him:

"Also, answering-islam team are spreading further lies by claiming that Dr. Maurice Bucaille the author of the book The Quran, Bible and Science never became Muslim and the book was a hoax. However, this is not true, He did embrace Islam and he wrote another book called What is the Origin of Man? and produced a video called book of signs. You can read an interview with the author at the following site http://www.islamicbulletin.org/Issue-Jan92-Embraced.html.  

Please expose this devious lie of answering-islam's team."

Please visit: My rebuttal to Jochen Katz on "Exposed Lies of the Answering Islam team".

My response to Jochen Katz rebuttal to my article "Exposing the Cheap lies of the Answering Islam team".   Here I showed how Jochen Katz contradicted himself regarding the forged email that he created with my personal truthspeask@answering-christianity.com email address.



Fourth lie:

It has come to my attention that the clown Quennel Gale, a member of the anti-Islamic "Answering Islam" team, is claiming that I copy my material from brother Shabir Ally.  Well, talk is cheap as this clown is very good at.  Bring me the proof to where I copied anything from brother Shabir Ally's work.  If I and brother Shabir or any other brother talked about a similar topic, then this wouldn't at all mean that any of us had "stolen" any of the other's work.  When the reader reads my material, he would immediately realize that I have invested a lot of time researching, investigating and building the contents of the articles on my site.  Every brother's or sister's work that I uploaded on my site has his or her name and email, or web site's address signed on the top of their article.

In fact, when I read Quennel's articles such as "Allah not in the Bible", and "Jesus' original name is not Eesa", I immediately see use of words and phrases that are Middle Eastern.  I don't believe he could've came up with all of this on his own, because he is an African American as he claims and doesn't speak Arabic nor Aramaic nor Hebrew.  He doesn't include any references to which web sites he came up with his nonsense from, nor does he give any credit to anyone.  All of his material is refuted in the links listed above on this page.  So I guess now, who is the real thief Mr. Gale?

I don't not need to "steal" anyone's work and wouldn't steal anyone's work anyway.  I am not saying this to brag about myself.  It's simply the truth.  As I mentioned above, every brother and sister whom I uploaded their work on to my site, I made sure that I put either their name and email address or their web site's address at the beginning of their articles.  Their work will be insha'Allah (if GOD Almighty is willing) preserved on my site for as long as my site lives.

@babysis,

this one still get mouth to talkblab.
babs blabs,what a great rhyme.

enjoy this piece.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/#internal

i could remember vividly when you first posted some contradictions from your bible having gotten the contradictions from maybe your friend last year. u were confused and suprised cos u never thought ur holy book could contain such discrepancies and i added some to it for u and backed it up with Quranic verse (Q4v82), the thread was later removed.

i later raised a thread tagged "101 contradictions". there u went to your authors and came back copying and pasting their replies to the contradictions in which i later re-explained every response posted by your authors. when your authors couldnt find their bearings, they told u then never to rely on Q4v82 as the yardstick for knowing if a book is holy or not. thank God you and your professors have decided to use the verse and u still went to your authors that gave u dillusionary anwers to the 101 contradictions and copied their responses too. since u refused gaining from my response to the earlier 101 contradictions, am sure this site u opend will open your eyes to the deciet, lies, falsehood, perpetrated by your authors.

u directed me to the below site.
enjoy this piece.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/#internal[/b]

ve gone through every question and found each irrelevant and senselss. if i try not responding, it will as if am avoiding you, but in order to expose your authors, i decided to direct you to a link where u will get satisfying answers to the questions raised in your link up. happy reading to you and your professors (havila, mrpataki, shahan, malik et al)


http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/quranerr.htm

havila,

i thought u have changed but u never did, u bloody slowpoke, it has dawned on me that ur lack of manner of approach is still haunting u and eating deep into your flesh.

i wont be suprised if you likewise go the same way u addressed issues in other threads.(u got what i meant)

babysis,

Thanks davidylan.
Babs,you,as thick as you are can wake up and publish the babs bible even in your sorry state.

where is the position of the holy spirit? but i will still be inspired if i want to write abi,

If you have good salesmen,it will sell and we will not be out to chop off your head but pray for you.

versions of the inspired book of God.huh

Quran 4v82: do they not then consider the Quran carefully? had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found many contradictions.

Quran 17v88: if mankind and jinn were together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they helped one another.

babysis,

professor, little wonder "recite" and "interprete" meant same thing to you

babysis,

sorry i was a dropped out. can you refer me to any pastoral school.

babs enjoy your Mohammedan ark which would lead straight to hell.

deaconess bsbysis, are u judging? uve all seen that jesus was a muslim> na wa o.

QURAN 6V125: AND WHOMEVER ALLAH WILLS TO GUIDE, HE OPENS HIS HEART TO ISLAM, AND WHOMSOEVER HE WILLS, HE SEND ASTRAY, HE MAKES HIS HEART CLOSED AND CONSTRICTED, AS IF HE IS CLIMBING UP TO THE SKY. THIS ALLAH PUTS THE WRATH ON THOSE WHO BELIEVE NOT.

@shahan,

We hear you, bros

So, how about coming closer home to the real deal, since you call us "brethren"?

coming home? explain

babysis,

Then read the King James!!!
What is your issue then?
I don't know any Christian that promotes the RSV more than the king James

mind you, the verses are missing in other versions too. where was the holy spirit when the authors of other versions were writing and compiling and forgot to put the missing verses? i thought bibles were inspired?

Bibles are not necessarily interpreted by Christians.
Bible publishing companies are not necessarily Christian owned businesses.
The message of salvation remains unchanged.

who interpreted the bible then? where was the holy spirit?
abegi, the same process happened to the quran too and it has never been found anywhere like i quoted some verses that are present in your king james and missing in other versions. its Allah promise and we've found it to be so, for the past 1400 years, there hasnt been any versions in which certain verses are expunged. ALLAH AKBAR

the below verse is for you

"Then woe unto those who write the Scripture with their own hands and then say: 'This is from Allah,' to purchase with it a miserable price! Woe unto them for what their hand have written and woe unto them for that which they earn [thereby]! And they said: 'The fire will not touch us except for a few numbered days.' Say, 'Have you taken a covenant with Allah so that Allah will not break His covenant, or is it that you say regarding Allah that which you know not?' Verily, Whosoever earns evil, and his sin has surrounded him, they are dwellers of the Fire; they will dwell therein forever. And those who believed [in the strict monotheism of God] and did good deeds they are dwellers of the Paradise, they will dwell therein forever.  (The Noble Quran, 2:79-82)"

lol, funny set of people.

so cele is not part of christianity, na wa oo.

besides i wasnt a celestial member.

u don hear brethren?

havila,

no need to explode on me. i quoted those verse from your bible and do yourself good by going through the verses rather than pouring venom on me

so jesus is now the holy spirit, na wa 4 all these your blasphemous statements.

babysis,

stop acting as being blind, go over my response up. ve answered her question unless u lack understanding.

shahan,
professor,



Quote from: babs787 on January 08, 2007, 04:50 PM
to the issue of isa (asw) which is called jesus, they r just twisting issues. the questions raised by shahan was off the track of what we have been saying but having known that there is no hiding place for them, he threw a question different from the one we have been iscussing.(is christianity wrong)

Lol,. . . now that just confirms your struggle with simple English. First, I wasn't the one hiding or "waiting" (remember). Second, because you were scared of your own reading ability, you thought my question was a different one than the topic suggests! In what way??

sorry for that, i was typing very fast and didnt proof read before submitting.

Quote from: babs787 on January 08, 2007, 04:50 PM
jesus was nothing than a prophet, sent to israelite. u know that christians are hypocrites, they can lay their hands on where jesus said, i am here for for sacrifice, kill me and use my blood for atonement.

Oh child, what a snorter! First, the rascally way in which you assume to quote Jesus' supposed sayings from the Bible is an oscar! Kia-kia, grab a Bible and read it - you can't go wrong when you do.

u should know that it was an error of omission. this is what i meant, "they can lay their hands on where jesus said, i am here for for sacrifice, kill me and use my blood for atonement".

Now, even your Qur'an affirms that Jesus was more than a prophet indeed. He was called "Christ" (a title that none of the other prophets in Islam was given); He was also called God's Word as well as a Spirit proceeding from God (Q. 4:171). All these are not even remotely hinted at as being titles given to any other Islamic prophet, nor attributed to the much appraised Muhammad.

go and learn from your brethren the meaning of christ. christo is a  greek word meaning  "anointed one" and he wasnt the only one the title was used for.
check  genesis 31v13 for anointed one
check leviticus 4v3 too
check leviticus 8v10
check isaiah 45 v1.

Ask yourself a salient question here: Why is Jesus referred to as 'Christ' (or, "Messiah" even in the Qur'an? Not even Muhammad could deny that title conveyed on Jesus; but what is the meaning behind that title? Regardless of the denials of the Qur'an about the vicarious work of Christ, have you noticed that not even Muhammad was able to face the Dajjal (the "antichrist"?) This sinister being is not concerned about Muhammad, and that is why he was not called the "antihammad" or "antimu'amad".

pity you. so u dont know that its this same prophet (that u r abusing now) will intercede for you. he will be the first to be raised on that day. beings will go and meet every prophet starting with Adam having stood for years unattended to and adam will direct them to another prophet telling them the reason for his inability to intercede for them. the next prophet will also tell them  same. even jesus will direct them to him (muhammed saw) telling them  the reason for his inability to intercede. its this same prophet that you are abusing now will intercede for you.na wa for you. u better accept him now.


The answer is because Satan's war has never been against Muhammad, but rather against Jesus Christ. The "rasul allah" (as Muhammad is fondly termed) is no speck of trouble to the Dajjal, for the One this enemy fears is actually the Christ. several hadiths testify that Muhammad was indeed terrified of the Dajjal, and concours that only the Christ will be able to pursue and kill this dreadful being (see, for example: Book 40, Number 7023: Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr).

read the response to the issue of dajjal up.

In all these, if Jesus was no more than a "prophet", why was Muhammad, "the rasul allah" so terrified of the Dajjal, but trusted so much that only Christ could vanquish the sinister minister of sin?

ve answered that, read it up.

Quote from: babs787 on January 08, 2007, 04:50 PM
they claim that jesus of the bible was sinless

We still stand by that claim.

i gave u verse to support it

Quote from: babs787 on January 08, 2007, 04:50 PM
and i brought out certain verses for them.

. . . and which one of those verses proved that Jesus was a sinner?

read my earlier post and maybe u refresh my memory by quoting the verse that proved muhammed was a sinner.

Quote from: babs787 on January 08, 2007, 04:50 PM
jesus wasnt the only prophet to be acused of things, most of the prophets of God were accused of adultery, fornication etc and which isnt supposed to be like that.

Babs787, Muhammad should really be ashamed of you! Not even your prophet with a thousand sins could prove that Jesus committed adultery, fornication, etc. To be sure, look again, and we stand by the claim that Muhammad was a sinner too shameful to be quoted in a public forum. Thing is, not one of you chaps has come to refute that claim.

verses from the quran pls?

Quote from: babs787 on January 08, 2007, 04:50 PM
I DIDNT SAY JESUS WAS SINFUL LIKEWISE MUHAMMED (SAW) BUT I BROUGHT OUT VERSES FROM THE BIBLE FOR THEM TO SEE.

You quickly and directly deny the very thing you proclaim indirectly. Sorry for you; English has been a tough one on you.

professor, u misconstrued the statement. this is what i meant. jesus and muhammed in my book were sinless but your bible in which i quoted above for you (maybe u r not with your glasses) proved him to be a sinner and i gave u the verses above.

Quote from: babs787 on January 08, 2007, 04:50 PM
we the entire muslim world believe in jesus (but not as a son, or saviour nor who was crucified) and we accord him respect like every other prophets because we were told never to make comparism among the prophets, we equally believe in all of them including jesus

And which version of "jesus" do you believe in - the cannabis jesus, the kinky jesus whom you insinuated might have been accused of fornication and adultery? No wonder you fellows are scared to investigate matters for yourself - because you don't know beyond 'what you have been told'!

we believe in jesus as a prophet and slave of Allah and not son, saviour or who died and was crucified for your sin). scared to investigate what sir?

Quote from: babs787 on January 08, 2007, 04:50 PM
and by the way maybe if you christians do not know, muhammed, wasnt the only prophet of islam, so why the fuss,

We know that already - that Muhammad wasn't the only "prophet" of Islam! As he did, so his followers - get it now?? The fuss is that you chaps have the uncanny and frivilous air of Quriash inability to reason!! Open yours eyes - read the Qur'an beyond what you have been told!!

even jesus was a muslim including his disciples.

Quote from: babs787 on January 08, 2007, 04:50 PM
even jesus wasnt a christian and all the prophets before him practised islam. so in a nutshell muhammed (saw) wasnt the originator iof Islam.

Oh child! I wish you'd open your eyes and see that even Muhammad wasn't sure of the origins of Islam - and the claim of Jesus practicing Islam (of all things) was a cheap interjection Muhammad sold gullible people who only believe what they have been told. You really don't have a clue about what you're practising.

go to this verses to buttress my point that jesus was a muslim likewise abraham and jacob

QURAN 42 V 13 –16:HE ALLAH HAS ORDAINED FOR YOU THE SAME RELIGION (ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM) WHICH HE ORDAINED FOR NOAH, AND THAT WHICH WE HAVE REVEALED UNTO YOU (O MUHAMMED SAW), AND THAT WHICH WE ORDAINED FOR ABRAHAM, MOSES, AND JESUS SAYING YOU SHOULD ESTABLISH RELIGION (TO DO WHAT IT ORDERS YOU TO DO PRACTICALLY), AND MAKE NO DIVISIONS IN IT (RELIGION) (I.E. VARIOUS SECTS IN RELIGION), INTOLERABLE FOR THE MUSHRIKUN IS THAT ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM) TO WHICH YOU (O MUHAMMED  SAW) CALL THEM, ALAH CHOOSES FOR HIMSELF WHOM HE WILLS, AND GUIDES UNTO HIMSELF WHO TURNS TO HIM IN REPENTANCE AND IN OBEDIENCE.
V 14: AND THEY DIVIDED NOT TILL AFTER KNOWLEDGE HAD COME TO THEM, THROUGH (SELFISH) TRANSGRESSION BETWEEN THEMSELVES. AND HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR A WORD THAT WENT FORTH BEFORE FROM YOUR LORD FOR AN APPOINTED TERM, THE MATTER WOULD HAVE BEEN SETTLED BETWEEN THEM. AND VERILY, THOSE WHO WERE MADE TO INHERIT THE SCRIPTURES ( THE TORAH AND THE GOSPEL) AFTER THEM (JEWS AND CHRISTIANS) ARE IN GRAVE DOUBT CONCERNING IT (ALLAH’S TRUE RELIGION, ISLAM AND THE QURAN)
V 15: SO UNTO THIS (RELIGION OF ISLAM ALONE AND THIS QURAN) THEN INVITE (PEOPLE) ( O MUHAMMED SAW) AND STAND FIRM (ON ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM) BY PERFORMING ALL THAT IS ORDAINED BY ALLAH (GOOD DEEDS), AND BY ABSTAINING FROM ALL THAT IS FORBIDDEN BY ALLAH (SINS AND EVIL DEEDS), AS YOU ARE COMMANDED, AND FOLLOW NOT THEIR DESIRE BUT SAY : “I BELIEVE IN WHATSOEVER ALLAH HAS SENT DOWN  OF THE BOOK (ALL THE HOLY BOOKS INCLUDING QURAN) OR THE PAGES OF ABRAHAM AND I AM COMMANDED TO DO JUSTICE AMONG YOU”. ALLAH IS OUR LORD AND YOUR LORD. FOR US OUR DEEDS AND FOR YOU YOUR DEEDS. THERE IS NO DISPUTE BETWEEN US AND YOU. ALLAH WILL ASSEMBLE US (ALL), AND TO HIM IS THE FINAL RETURN.
V 16: AND TO THOSE WHO DISPUTE CONCERNING ALLAH (HIS RELIGION OF ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM WITH WHICH MUHAMMED SAW HAS BEEN SENT), AFTER IT HAS BEEN ACCEPTED (BY THE PEOPLE), OF NO USE IS THEIR DISPUTE BEFORE THEIR LORD AND ON THEM IS WRATH, AND FOR THEM WIL BE A SEVERE TORMENT.
V 17: IT IS ALLAH WHO HAS SENT DOWN THE BOOK (THE QURAN) IN TRUTH, AND THE BALANCE (TO ACT JUSTLY). AND WHAT CAN MAKE YOU KNOW THAT PERHAPS THE HOUR IS CLOSE AT HAND?

Jesus was not a Muslim - He was not called "jesus-mus" or "jesus-slam" or "jesus slim": He was called Jesus CHRIST, from whom you get the name "Christians". Haa! na wah!!  

go and find out the meaning of christ. also do a research for me and tell me where the word "christianity" was mentioned during jesus era. also read it up below it was mentioned that he was a muslim, na wa, pls seek for knowledge and dont be like hosea 4V6

na wa for you. this your bible no let you see road.The below verses will show you that Islam has been in existence before Muhammed (SAW) , even jesus was a muslim, happy reading

QURAN 42 V 13 –16:HE ALLAH HAS ORDAINED FOR YOU THE SAME RELIGION (ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM) WHICH HE ORDAINED FOR NOAH, AND THAT WHICH WE HAVE REVEALED UNTO YOU (O MUHAMMED SAW), AND THAT WHICH WE ORDAINED FOR ABRAHAM, MOSES, AND JESUS SAYING YOU SHOULD ESTABLISH RELIGION (TO DO WHAT IT ORDERS YOU TO DO PRACTICALLY), AND MAKE NO DIVISIONS IN IT (RELIGION) (I.E. VARIOUS SECTS IN RELIGION), INTOLERABLE FOR THE MUSHRIKUN IS THAT ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM) TO WHICH YOU (O MUHAMMED  SAW) CALL THEM, ALAH CHOOSES FOR HIMSELF WHOM HE WILLS, AND GUIDES UNTO HIMSELF WHO TURNS TO HIM IN REPENTANCE AND IN OBEDIENCE.
V 14: AND THEY DIVIDED NOT TILL AFTER KNOWLEDGE HAD COME TO THEM, THROUGH (SELFISH) TRANSGRESSION BETWEEN THEMSELVES. AND HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR A WORD THAT WENT FORTH BEFORE FROM YOUR LORD FOR AN APPOINTED TERM, THE MATTER WOULD HAVE BEEN SETTLED BETWEEN THEM. AND VERILY, THOSE WHO WERE MADE TO INHERIT THE SCRIPTURES ( THE TORAH AND THE GOSPEL) AFTER THEM (JEWS AND CHRISTIANS) ARE IN GRAVE DOUBT CONCERNING IT (ALLAH’S TRUE RELIGION, ISLAM AND THE QURAN)
V 15: SO UNTO THIS (RELIGION OF ISLAM ALONE AND THIS QURAN) THEN INVITE (PEOPLE) ( O MUHAMMED SAW) AND STAND FIRM (ON ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM) BY PERFORMING ALL THAT IS ORDAINED BY ALLAH (GOOD DEEDS), AND BY ABSTAINING FROM ALL THAT IS FORBIDDEN BY ALLAH (SINS AND EVIL DEEDS), AS YOU ARE COMMANDED, AND FOLLOW NOT THEIR DESIRE BUT SAY : “I BELIEVE IN WHATSOEVER ALLAH HAS SENT DOWN  OF THE BOOK (ALL THE HOLY BOOKS INCLUDING QURAN) OR THE PAGES OF ABRAHAM AND I AM COMMANDED TO DO JUSTICE AMONG YOU”. ALLAH IS OUR LORD AND YOUR LORD. FOR US OUR DEEDS AND FOR YOU YOUR DEEDS. THERE IS NO DISPUTE BETWEEN US AND YOU. ALLAH WILL ASSEMBLE US (ALL), AND TO HIM IS THE FINAL RETURN.
V 16: AND TO THOSE WHO DISPUTE CONCERNING ALLAH (HIS RELIGION OF ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM WITH WHICH MUHAMMED SAW HAS BEEN SENT), AFTER IT HAS BEEN ACCEPTED (BY THE PEOPLE), OF NO USE IS THEIR DISPUTE BEFORE THEIR LORD AND ON THEM IS WRATH, AND FOR THEM WIL BE A SEVERE TORMENT.
V 17: IT IS ALLAH WHO HAS SENT DOWN THE BOOK (THE QURAN) IN TRUTH, AND THE BALANCE (TO ACT JUSTLY). AND WHAT CAN MAKE YOU KNOW THAT PERHAPS THE HOUR IS CLOSE AT HAND?

am not suprised at your lost battle. read the below verse

QURAN 6V125: AND WHOMEVER ALLAH WILLS TO GUIDE, HE OPENS HIS HEART TO ISLAM, AND WHOMSOEVER HE WILLS, HE SEND ASTRAY, HE MAKES HIS HEART CLOSED AND CONSTRICTED, AS IF HE IS CLIMBING UP TO THE SKY. THIS ALLAH PUTS THE WRATH ON THOSE WHO BELIEVE NOT.

also

QURAN 61V7: AND WHO DOES MORE WRONG THAN THE ONE WHO INVENTS A LIE AGAINST ALLAH, WHILE HE S HE BEING INVITED TO ISLAM? AND ALLAH GUIDES NOT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ZALIMUN (POLYTHEISTS, WRONGDOERS, DISBELIEVERS) FOLK.
QURAN 61 V 8: THEY INTEND TO PUT OUT THE LIGHT OF ALLAH ( THE RELIGION OF ISLAM, THE QURAN AND THE PROPHET MUHAMMED (SAW) WITH THEIR MOUTHS, BUT ALLAH WILL BRING HIS LIGHT TO PERFECTION EVEN THOUGH THE DISBELIEVERS HATE.
QURAN 61 V 9: HE IT IS WHO HAS SENT HIS MESSENGER (MUHAMMED SAW) WITH GUIDANCE AND THE RELIGION OF TRUTH (ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM) TO MAKE IT VICTORIOUS OVER ALL (OTHER) RELIGIONS,EVEN THOUGH THE MUSHRIKUN (POLYTHEISTS, PAGANS, IDOLATERS, AND DISBELIEVERS IN THE ONENESS OF ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER (MUHAMMED SAW) HATE (IT).
QURAN 49 V 17: THEY REGARD A FAVOUR FROM YOU ( O MUHAMMED SAW) THAT THEY HAVE EMBRACED ISLAM, SAY: “COUNT NOT YOUR ISLAM AS A FAVOUR TO ME. NAY, BUT ALLAH HAS CONFERRED A FAVOUR UPON YUOU THAT HE HAS GUIDED YOU TO THE FAITH IF YOU INDEED ARE TRUE.

are u satisfied? the earlier u accept the truth, the better for you, havila, babyosis, shahan, mrpataki, davidyan et al, u r all invited to join Noah's Ark of Today before its too late

mrpataki,

i dont have time for you here. ve aplogised to whom it deemed fit and i dont owe any other person any apology.

elder pataki, go over their posts and reason with the tone of the messag, after that u can talk to me and i will respond.

tayod,

i threw question at you and u r throwing it back at me

tayod,

stop wasting time and go straight to your answer. an answer for a question.

tayod,

i thought u r learned. translate it again

u can even use vulgar

did u notice the u can use?

@shahan,

ur faith has dilusion to the extent of not comprehending simple statement, this is my quote below

now, go over to the verse again, didnt u read it there that if you see your wife wilh ill conduct u first admonish them if she repent no problem but if she didnt, u refuse sharing bed with her.

i can see that u lack understanding, was beating lightly the first approach. i throw it at you again, if a wife disrespect her husband and she refuses to change, the husband continue loving her despite her unrepentant attitude.

can u go over now?

babysis,

sorry for the typographical error up, but still refer to the questions up.

thank you

professor babysis,

no wonder u dont know the difference between recite and interprete. so how and why are same.

how did sin all sin:

Rom 5:12   Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned--
Rom 5:17   For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 5:18   Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.
Rom 5:19   For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.
Rom 5:20   Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,
Rom 5:21   so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

why did all sin:

cos adam eat the forbidden tree, abi no be so.

in order not to waste time babysin,

let me refresh your memory, cos Adam and Eve sinned, God cursed Adam and Eve in Genesis, if jesus came to die for that sin.

1. why is the curse still there and hangs on every generation of Adam.gen 3v14-19. he came to die for the sin, why do we still have the curse not removed for the fact that he came to die for it?

2. why did jesus not come immediately after Adam committed the sin and had to wait till many generations had passed away?

3.  for what purpose did he intend to delay the cru7cifiction till some thousand years after the event.

4.  if jesus actually came to die for your sin , and that salvation lies in his blood sacrifice, why did he preached repentance in mathew 4v17

5. if all person are under the stain of original sin, why are children exempted (they r also born of a woman as in job 25 v4) as in  mathew 18v3-6.

6. where did he say he came to die for sin in the bible?

7. u claimed jesus is God, must he punish himself before he can forgive sin?

8. the motive for any punishmewnt is to check evil and reform the sinner, without doubt, to punish someone for his past sins even after somone had died for that sin is a sign of vengeance and not justice!!

9.  if jesus can die for the sin of man, why did he plead to God in mathew 26v38-39.

10. if jesus came to die, why is he afraid of death in john 11v53: then from that day forth, they took counsel togetherr to put him to death. esus therefore walked no more in openly among the jews but wenjt unto a country near to the wilderness, into a city called ephraim and there continued with his disciples.

11. if he had prepared to die for the sin of man, why was judas named traitor.

12. why do we accuse jew of handling him for what he came to do?


these and many more when u finish with those above.

professor babysis,

no wonder u dont the difference between recite and interprete. so how and why are same.

how did sin all sin:

Rom 5:12   Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned--
Rom 5:17   For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 5:18   Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.
Rom 5:19   For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.
Rom 5:20   Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,
Rom 5:21   so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

why did all sin:

cos adam eat the forbidden tree, abi no be so.

in order not to waste time babysin,

let me refresh your memory, cos Adam and Eve sinned, God cursed Adam and Eve in Genesis, if jesus came to die for that sin.

1. why is the curse still there and hangs on every generation of Adam.gen 3v14-19. he came to die for the sin, why do we still have the curse not removed for the fact that he came to die for it?

2. why did jesus not come immediately after Adam committed the sin and had to wait till many generations had passed away?

3.  for what purpose did he intend to delay the cru7cifiction till some thousand years after the event.

4.  if jesus actually came to die for your sin , and that salvation lies in his blood sacrifice, why did he preached repentance in mathew 4v17

5. if all person are under the stain of original sin, why are children exempted (they r also born of a woman as in job 25 v4) as in  mathew 18v3-6.

6. where did he say he came to die for sin in the bible?

7. u claimed jesus is God, must he punish himself before he can forgive sin?

8. the motive for any punishmewnt is to check evil and reform the sinner, without doubt, to punish someone for his past sins even after somone had died for that sin is a sign of vengeance and not justice!!

9.  if jesus can die for the sin of man, why did he plead to God in mathew 26v38-39.

10. if jesus came to die, why is he afraid of death in john 11v53: then from that day forth, they took counsel togetherr to put him to death. esus therefore walked no more in openly among the jews but wenjt unto a country near to the wilderness, into a city called ephraim and there continued with his disciples.

11. if he had prepared to die for the sin of man, why was judas named traitor.

12. why do we accuse jew of handling him for what he came to do?


these and many more when u finish with those above.

@babysis,

ve said earlier. why continuing wallowing in ignorance. why not seek for the truth and ask rather quoting verse in which u lack understanding.

It was revealed in this way. This Qur'an has been revealed to be recited in seven different ways, so recite of it whichever is easier for you."

i think u have christians around u, ask one of them to explain it to you. does recitation to you means interpretation.

na wa o, u need to refer to your dictionary for meaning of the two words.

babysis in christ, can you tell why these verse are not in other versions, was holy spirit not around to inspire them?

king james version existing verses


mark 11v26
act of apostles 8v37
mathew 17v21
mathew 21v44
luke 22v43 etc

the above are not in revised standrad version and others others

we still other books that are mentioned in the bible but not seen in your today bible

am sure God's curse must be on one of the authors.

shahan et all,

i thought u can comprehend things, but i dont really blame you cos ur mindset has been programmed right from birth and no amount truth u r being told, u will ponder it.

now, go over to the verse again, didnt u read it there that if you see your wife wilh ill conduct u first admonish them if she repent no problem but if she didnt, u refuse sharing bed with her.

i can see that u lack understanding, was beating lightly the first approach. i throw it at you again, if a wife disrespect her husband and she refuses to change, the husband continue loving her despite her unrepentant attitude.

NA WA O CHRISTIAN ON NAIRALAND, mising simple explanation

davidylan et al,

i never blame you all. u lack comprehension. it seems u didnt get my question, if u r laying emphasis on the above verse,

i ask you, did the bible teach you to love your wife that bring concubine to your bedroom more than twice, u will pat her on the back and tell her welldone baby, i still love and will continue loving you.

does your bible tells u to love a wife that changed her attitude and started going wayward eg, coming home late and uve told her and she didnt take to correction. u will continue loving her. NA WA O

does your bible tells u to love a wife that doesnt perform her role like cooking,

OR MAYBE U CHECK YOUR DICTIONARY FOR ILL CONDUCT