₦airaland Forum

@Fellis

Babs, is it written in the Bible that  Jesus Christ asked christians to be as calm as doves? I need to know please. And if there's any related verse please quote it. Many thanx.
N.B. Abeg some posts should just be ignored. Tudor seem to have nothing good to say about Islam. It's better to avoid giving him any chance to talk about it.

Salam brother. Jesus told his disciples when sending them to house of Israel, he told them not to go to the gentiles nor to the samaritans but to the house of Israel. I said the above since they claimed to be following Jesus but dont obey what he says nor follow it by throwing yabbis here and there. A very good example is my good friend David

Matthew 10:

The message
16:Stay alert. This is hazardous work I'm assigning you. You're going to be like sheep running through a wolf pack, so don't call attention to yourselves. Be as cunning as a snake, inoffensive as a dove.

Amplified bible

16: Behold, I am sending you out like sheep in the midst of wolves; be wary and wise as serpents, and be innocent (harmless, guileless, and without falsity) as doves.(


KJV

16: Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Please ignore Tudor since he is an atheist and we have answers for them in both books as said by the Creator[color=#990000][/color]

@Uplawal

@Babs787
i hail you sir, too much knowledge,or are you a lecturer?

A student ma'am . Learning from my intelligent brothers and sisters here as well as my non-muslims friends

@Uplawal

@Babs i want you on yahoo now pls

Where r u?

Reaping the Fruits of Afflictions


Abu Sa`id and Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with them) reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “No fatigue, nor disease, nor anxiety, nor sadness, nor hurt, nor distress befalls a Muslim, even if it were the prick he receives from a thorn, but that Allah expiates some of his sins for that” (Al-Bukhari and Muslim).

This world is no more than a test in which all humans are bound to face some hardships and challenges that reveal their patience and steadfastness. The forms of this test are numerous and diverse: Some people suffer poverty, some suffer physical illnesses, some live in a state of insecurity, some are deprived of their cherished and beloved ones, and still others suffer psychiatric disorders. Referring to this fact, Allah says:

[And surely We shall try you with something of fear and hunger, and loss of wealth and lives and crops; but give glad tidings to the patient, Who says, when afflicted with calamity: "To Allah We belong, and to Him is our return": They are those on whom (descend) Blessings from Allah, and Mercy, and they are the ones that receive guidance.] (Al-Baqarah 2:155-157)

In another verse, He Almighty says:

[He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed: and He is the Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving.] (Al-Mulk 67:2)

Since trials and hardships are inevitable, Islam does not let them pass by without instructing Muslims on the best course of action or by guiding them to the safest and most appropriate attitude. The Hadith reveal one dimension of Islam's recipe for successfully dealing with life's challenges. In order to balance the negative effects posed by afflictions, Islam draws our attention to their expected fruit. Problems and troubles serve as means to expiate sins and elevate the believer's rank in the Hereafter. This optimistic and positive approach safeguards one from falling prey to despair and grief. Here, it is fitting to cite some Prophetic hadiths that emphasize this concept:

Abu Yahya Suhaib bin Sinan (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "How wonderful is the case of a believer; there is good for him in everything and this applies only to a believer. If prosperity attends him, he expresses gratitude to Allah and that is good for him; and if adversity befalls him, he endures it patiently and that is good for him" (Muslim).

Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "He whom Allah intends good, He makes him to suffer from some affliction" (Al-Bukhari).

Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "A Muslim, male or female, continues to remain under trial in respect of his life, property, and offspring until he faces Allah, the Exalted, with no sin record" (At-Tirmidhi).

The above hadiths should not be mistaken for a call to fatalism and defeatism. The message the hadiths convey is that every Muslim should expect hardships and prepare to weather them. This point makes a distinction between one who trusts in Allah and believes in His mercy and one who feels that he is alone in this world, that he faces its formidable challenges isolated from any source of support or assistance. So, these hadiths are meant to infuse the Muslim with hope and vigor and drive away the destructive thoughts of failure and hopelessness. To get a better understanding of them, they should be considered light of the following hadiths:

Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported:

The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "A strong believer is better and dearer to Allah than a weak one, and both are good. Adhere to that which is beneficial for you. Keep asking Allah for help and do not refrain from it. (If you are afflicted in any way), do not say: 'If I had taken this or that step, it would have resulted into such and such,' but say only: 'Allah so determined and did as He willed.' The word 'if' opens the gates of satanic (thoughts)" (Muslim).

In line with this hadith comes the Prophet's advice to his cousin Ibn `Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him) to know that with patience comes victory, with distress comes relief, and with hardship comes ease.

In this respect, one idea may be a source of worry and disturbance. How can we approach afflictions with such optimism when they are clear signs of Allah's wrath and manifestations of His punishment? Has not Allah said, [Whatever misfortune happens to you, is because of the things your hands have wrought, and for many (of them) He grants forgiveness] (Ash-Shura 42:30)? Actually, this question haunts many people, especially the practicing ones when they are afflicted with a calamity, deprived of a cherished person, or plagued with an illness. The problem is that in many cases this thought becomes a source of frustration and depression. Instead of being an incentive to hastening to Allah and drawing closer to him, the idea serves sometimes as a dispiriting factor. So, let's see how the Companions viewed the above verse and how they took it positively and optimistically.

In his comment on this verse, Imam Al-Qurtubi reports that `Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) said, "This verse is the most hopeful one in the Qur'an; if my sins are to be expiated through afflictions and calamities, and in addition to that, Allah forgives many other sins, then what will remain after such expiation and forgiveness?"

True, life's disasters leave hearts broken and loved ones deprived, but the bright believer knows how turn them into a source of determination and a fountain of strength. I conclude with the beautiful authentic hadith in which the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) tells us that the people who face the harshest trial ( bla') are the prophets, then those next to them (in faith and devotion), and then the next. Everyone will be tried according to his level of faith; one who has strong faith will undergo a harsh trial and one who is of weak faith will receive a weak trial. And the affliction will encompass one until he becomes free of sins altogether.

Happy Family


"Certainly, the excellence of character and being gracious to one's household is part of the completion of faith " Prophet Muhammad

The human being as a social being has the responsibility of being most beneficial and least problematic to society. This responsibility begins in the closest circle of the community, the building block of society - the family. From there it extends to relatives, neighbors, friends and the rest of society. In this social context, let us reflect on some guidelines pertaining to individual responsibility.

Parents

The first in a series of commandments appearing in Surah al-Israa', God has decreed that you worship none but Him and be good to parents. We are instructed to reflect on the effort that parents exert to bring us into this world and to nurture us and therefore to acknowledge our appreciation we are advised to be thankful to God and your parents. Of all the bonds of relationships, the mother holds a unique position. When the Prophet was asked who has most right to our respect and companionship he said your mother, then your mother, then your mother then the rest of society. He also advised a young questioner regarding his relationship with his mother by saying paradise lies at the feet of thy mother.

Spouses

The relationship between two individuals coming together in a loving union of marriage ought to be based on love and compassion. The resulting union must provide sakinah (tranquility). The association of one with the other is described symbolically as garments unto each other; covering, embracing and protecting one another.

The marital relationship is the most intimate of relationships. This Qur'an makes reference to this close bond between the spouses in the words: "they are like garments unto you as you are like garments unto them". Within the bonds of this intimacy; shared feelings, honest and open communication, genuine understanding, mutual responsibility and caring needs to flourish. The intimacy must provide a haven that offers a sense of warmth, safety, security and interdependence. After all, the relationship, according to the Qur'an (30:21), is founded on mawaddah (love and affection) and rahmah (tenderness and compassion), intended to result in sakinah (tranquility and harmony).

This togetherness is multi-dimensional, but is ineffective if it is limited only to bonding through physical closeness. How often has the problem between the spouses been the separation of the husband and wife in unshared emotions, in not being aware of the opinions of the other, of having separate entertainments.

It is not uncommon for a husband to keep his problems to himself, not consider the advice or opinion of his wife, going off to enjoy sporting events while leaving the wife at home with the kids (as if it is her duty), and refusing to help with the household chores because "it is the women's work".

Togetherness means much more than sitting at the table for dinner and sleeping in the same bed. There must exist ,

· an emotional togetherness that emanates from being attuned to each other's feelings

· an intellectual togetherness that allows the sharing of thoughts, ideas and opinions

· a work togetherness where there is involvement in performing chores and everyday tasks

· a recreational togetherness when you have fun and excitement together

· a crisis togetherness when you can lean on each other and support one another in times of difficulty and tragedy

· an aesthetic togetherness through which you share the beauties of the artistry of life and of living

· a spiritual togetherness by means of which you inspire the best in one another and grow closer to the Creator

The best of blessings for the husband is to have a faithful wife who does not betray her husband either in personality or in wealth.

Following the advice of Prophet Muhammad , it is best for the husband to live with his wife in keeping with the best of standards.

The Prophet said: Shall I inform you of the best among you? The respectful gentleman, who has good manners and honors his wife as best he can. In fact, the measure of the goodness of a man is measured by how he treats women.

Why all the fuss about olabowale.just another bloody excuse for the islamists to cover their ignorance. . . . .why are you stupid?. . .ehnn,its because egbon olabowale our imam is not around. Bullshit!

Soldier of christ I thought that Jesus said they should be calm as dove, o maa se o

@Todak

Egba mi ooooooooooooooo, babs ma ti sa lo, , he nolonger can face the truth, he has save himself shame of seeing the holy quran erring, oh, sorry oooooooooo, just like ola said to you in one of the post, "those who like in glass house do not throw stones, " se bi oro agba se ma n se ni, well, i still trust you, you will reply, still waiting ,

Babs is very much around the corner but has not time for your infantile reasoning. I am thinking of how to create threads to improve we muslims with regards to our deen. How could someone on earth be saying tis eith instrad of 6 when its glaring and you yourself read same. The earth alone was created in six days, mountains and blessings in another two days making four and heaven another two days, so how many days do we have altogether?

Where did you see 8 oga?

Quran 41: 9 Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?

The above says that Allah created the earth in two days (mind you, creation of heaven was not included in the above verse).


Quran 41: 10 He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…

Creating of earth, mountains, bestowing blessings takes four days altogether.

Quran 7: 54 Your gurdian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

Quran 10: 3 Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

@Uplawal

@Babs787
i do really appreciate your effort too sir, i would like to have your email address again because i misplaced it,you guys are really trying, welldone sir, my email is titialayo25@yahoo.co.uk, thanks ASAP pls.

Salam my dear sister

You and myself started from the same religion (Christianity) and I have even posted my journey to Islam in some threads. So my email address with humility, respect is
tundebabs787@yahoo.com

Let me read from you Ma'am and you are free to ask me questions concerning any faith and Allah would assist us. I would send mail that would equip you with all you need to know about Islam and others

@Babs
i take you to be the SAUDANA, SALAM.

My head swell ooo . Appreciation goes to my knowledgeable brothers in the likes of Olabowale, Mustay, Frizy, Belloti, Lagosboy, Littleb, Bilms, Abuzola, Subzeero, etc and my sisters: Mukina, Zayhal, Ayinba, Dominique, Arramyjay etc. They have been my support and have learnt lots about Islam from them and I have never for one day regretted turning to Islam.

Practically
Heaven 02
Earth(Incomplete) 02
Earth (all that's in it) 04
total 08 not 06.

Or what do you think it is

I have left the guy in his foolishness tay tay.
You can imagine his post when he read that earth was created in two days. Mountains and other blessing in two days making four and heaven in another two days totaling 6 days yet he ignorantly keep saying its eight.

What a perfect mathematician

Question 18

What is lawful and what is prohibited concerning hayd and Nifas?

Answer

A. The following rulings must be considered as far as menstruation and postnatal bleeding are concerned:

1. It is prohibited for a husband to have sexual intercourse with his wife during menses or postnatal bleeding.


2. No woman in either of the two states is allowed to perform prayer or observe fasting.

3. No woman having menses or postnatal bleeding is to recite the Quran

4. Such a woman is not allowed to enter the mosque or circumambulate the sacred house.

5. A woman is not in a state of purification or taharah as long as she is afflicted by menstruation or postnatal bleeding, because either of these two anti-purification states lasts until the menstruation or postnatal bleeding ends.

6. Either of the two states necessitates ghusl on its expiration.



Question 19

What is Istihadah and what is the shariah ruling concerning it?

Answer:

Istihadah is that a woman undergoes vaginal blessing at times other than those known for menstruation and postnatal bleeding or at a time connected to either of them, and it results from the cutting of a blood vessel and so the blood is red and the bleeding resulting from this does not stop except when this cutting has been cured.

A woman who has such Istihadah based bleeding is regarded as being in a state of purification and so she can perform prayer and observe fasting as unanimously agreed upon by scholars. it is also worth mentioning that her husband can have intercourse with her as long as this takes place at a time other than that of menstruation, as maintained by most scholars.

Question 20

Does a woman unfasten her hair when performing ghusl?

Answer:

It is generally obligatory that the person performing ghusl let water reach all parts of her body including the roots of hair on the head and that of the beard. However, if a woman's hair is plaited, she does not have to unfasten her plaits. Rather, it is permissible for her to pour water on her head on condition that it reaches the roots of her hair. This is derived from the hadith on the authority of Um Salamah:

'I asked, 'O messenger of Allah, I fasten the plaits of (the hair of) my head, so should I unfasten it when performing ghusl because of janabah? He said, 'It is only sfficient for you to pour on your head three handfuls of water then pour water on the rest of your body and this you will be purified'

Faqis refer the permissiblity of keeping plaits unfastened to the difficulty it causes on the part of woman, unlike the beard as it is not difficult to let water reach its roots.

@olabowale
Am so happy you are back now because everyone wants you back on ISLAM section,hope to see more of you, am a new convert from the BOOK.

He is our Imam

@OP

Nope. You may disprove this with facts please

@Tudor,your folks have been doing that especially in the threads I raised for them. So, one of has answered you,what next?

Dauda,wats the first five book of the OT called? Are you saying there's nothing like Torah?

Olabowale came to NL yesterday, even posted, in religion section, under; https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-273201.0.html

Short visit but would be back in weeks time

@Dauda

My friend

No dude, the torah and injil we have is corrupt (according to muslims) so it could NEVER have come from allah. I am asking specifically for allah's copy. The one he claimed to have "sent down and confirmed". surely some mullah has it.

You dont have Torah given to Moses but what you have is Old Testament. You dont have the Gospel of Jesus but gospels 'according to' containing letters of Paul, dream of John in revelation in the holy book given to Jesus If you are able to tell me what the Torah and Injil as given to them contain, then I wold be able to show in the Quran. If you cant do that for me, The Quran contains The Torah, Injil put together.

thank you for a speedy response.

You are welcome Dauda nackson

Olabowale is very hale and hearty. He is just busy for now and would be back in few weeks time. He is not at home for now and even told me that Dauda and himself spoke weeks ago.

@No2atheism

Last part of your questions

- In your opinion, what is the pentateuch.
the Pentateuch?

The first five books of the Old Testament

Genesis
Exodus
Leviticus
Numbers
Deuteronomy

- In your opinion, what is the Torah

Its the Hebrew word meaning teaching and God gave the teaching to Moses called Torah of Moses.

- Is the Torah the same thing as the Pentateuch.

Yes

- What do you understand by the meaning of the English word called "Revelation".

The art of revealing or disclosing something not previously known

- Who told you NT is a revelation given to the Messiah

God didnt give Jesus [b]NT[/b] but a gospel or Injil.

- Who in your opinion gave the revelation to the Messiah.

God gave Jesus Injil or Gospel and not [b]NT[/b]

- How do you know the NT is adulterated

I have this in one of my earlier rejoinders. God didnt give Jesus NT but Injil, gospel and not Gospels. Words therein are mostly 3rd party narration and written after his demise.

- Who adulterated the NT

Your authors just like I have provided you link. Mind you, God didnt give Jesus Gospels but a gospel.

- When was it adulterated.

After Jesus' demise

- If the NT is not 100% the Word of the Creator, then what percentage of it is the truth and what percentage of it is lies.

I didnt calculate sir

- Can you please identify the parts of the NT that are true and the parts that are lies.

Part of direct words ascribed to Jesus are true while some are not and examples are the unfulfilled prophecies etc. Words of the acclaimed gospellers are not 100% true because they didnt witness his testimony but claimed to have been handed the story, eg Luke


Finally,

- Is the Creator in the Bible the same as the allah in Quran

Nope. The Creator of the Quran is the same as the of Torah and Injil. God didnt send bible to any of his messengers and prophets

- What is the name of the Creator in the Bible

I wouldnt know. All I know is that Allah sent the Torah to Moses, Injil to Jesus and Quran to Muhammed, so I am not aware of the bible.

- What is the name of the creator in the quran

.

Allah

- What are the titles of the Creator in the bible.

Genesis to Revelation huh, 66 books in protestant while 73 in catholic bible

- What are the titles of the creator in the quran.

We have 114 chapters and the name is given according to the occurence and the reason for the name is in every chapters

[quote]Babs787 and others, abeg i take Mukina, Aisha, Sadia, Kadijat and Mutiat beg you, please make your answers simple and lets try and engage in a civil and simple question and answer session. In fact you can choose to write "No Answer" to the any question you choose not to answer.

[/quote]Done that

Thank you

U r welcome dude

@Woleb

Its only a fool that would believe Robert A. Morey. His lies without facts have been exposed times without number through series of debate by Islamic scholars. I dont even have time to debunk all those lies cos they are very glaring.

@Abuzola

D same way a fellow in d xtrian section post contradiction of d koran with verse dat not exist I.e exceed d verse numba

Nice observation brother . The guy dey smart sha. He quickly modified everything. I even showed my friends and they couldnt help laughing that even Baqarah that happen to be the longest, is not up to 300 let alone 1000 plus chapters. The guy re-tracted his mistake jare thanks to the ability to modify already sent message.

@Davidylan

Please before showing you, kindly tell me what Torah and Injil contain. I need it ASAP

there is no substancial proof backing that u should sit while khutbah, if there is provide it

Yes.

The hadith quoted by Babs narrated by Jabir was explained by scholars of fiqh that there was a reason why the prophet asked that man to stand up as it was not the general norm of the sahabas to do salah during the khutbah. The reason was that the prophet (PBUH) wanted to bring peoples attention tho this man so they could help him as he was poor and his clothes would give away his situation immediately and some shabas could be of help. The other hadiths were also explained which i cant remember right now if i will be honest. The book Fatih'bari by ibn hajar Alasqalani will definately do justice to the explanation of the hadith in Bukhari.

With regards to zayhal's post, I thing we are mixing nawafil with prayer of greeting the mosque( tahayyatul masjid). I agree that you must not observe nawafil or any prayer tafter the Imam has mounted the pulpit but prayer of greeting the mosque is very important and compulsory as well whether the Imam has started sermon or not and if he has, you should make it short as said by the holy prophet.

Many Muslims do not pray the prayer to greet the mosque. Some if they enter when the Imam is giving the sermon, sit down and do not pray it. Its a mistake. It has been proven that the prophet commanded every person that enters the mosque to perform a two unit prayer even if he has sat down.

Jabir Ibn Abdullah narrated that Sulaik Al-Ghatafani entered on Friday while the messenger of Allah was delivering the sermon. He sat down, so the holy prophet said to him, 'oh Sulaik, stand and perform a two unit prayer and make them short'. He then said, 'when any of you comes On Friday and the Imam is delivering the sermon, he should perform tow units and should make them short'.

Imam An-Nawawi said, 'all these Hadith support the opinion of Ash-Shafi, Ahmad, Ishaq and the Scholars of hadith that are versed in Fiqh. If someone enters the mosque on friday while Imam is delivering the sermon, he is recommended to perform the two units called Mosque greeting prayer and it is reprehensive to sit down without performing them. People are also recommended to make them short so that they can listen to the sermon'.

One has to perform it even after sitting down if he did not know it was commanded. The Shafi scholars stated that sitting down prevents one from performing the prayer, to greet the mosque. This statement refers to one who knows its recommendation, while someone who does not know has to make it up as soon as he can as indicated in the hadith.

However:

Some people related on the Hadith narrated by Ibn Omar that the prophet said, 'when anyone of you enters the mosque while the Imam is on the pulpit, delivering sermon, he should not perform prayer or speak until the Imam ends the sermon'.

This hadith is very weak due to Ayyub Ibn Nuhaik whose narration is rejected.

I stand to be corrected as we are all learning please.

Maa Salam

@Dauda, I am very busy would attend to you. Torah, Injil etc make up the Quran. They are in the Quran and form part of same and I do hope you are not trying to divert the thread which you are well known for

@thiefofheart,am sorry if I sound/post like version of David,Todak etc,they murdered sleep and that is the reason I said 'its strictly for them'. Go to my section and read from them and if you are observant, I have not been posting in your section except rebuttal to those that concerns my faith. Read through posts and you would find answer to your question. I believe respect is reciprocal. You dont expect me to fold my arms when they deflect threads,insulting my God,messenger,religion as a result of not being knowlegeable enough. The earlier they desist,the better for them and I am ready to debate with four of them put together.

@Davidylan, I didnt evade your question but want to respond to the post in the order they came,to finish with No2.theism,move to Olaadegbu and finally to you but since you are impatient,I would answer you as it happens to be one of your recycled questions. The Quran contains both revelations but if you are not satisfied,you may what do the revelations to Moses,Jesus contain?

@No2atheism

- Who were the original messengers.

Moses the Torah, David the Pslam and Jesus the Injil(Gospel)

- Who message were this original messengers carrying.

Oneness of God and not your triune god

- Who were the people to which this original message was preached to, so that we can go and meet them to find out about the original message.

Prophets and messengers were sent to their community.

- Which chapters plagiarised each other.

You could still tell me why these verses are missing in Original manuscript, missing in other versions but present in KJV

mark 11 v 26
acts 8 v 37

On issue of plagiarization, I would get them for you later and its a promise.

- How do you know something has been plagiarised without an original copy.

When they are not same authors but have same message despite the time frame

- What is your perfect frame of reference for your conclusions.

My posts speak it all. Decipher the truth yourself

- Is the corruption of the original message the same thing as when you said the original message was lost or are you talking about something different in this case.

Dont put words in my mouth. The bible you are holding is not the message given to Jesus, Moses etc. Dont you understanfd when they say something is not in its original state?

- When did the corruption of the original message happen according to the Quran or Mohammed or Allah or anyone else for that matter.

I wouldnt know but its glaring from your book thats its corrupt and it happened after Jesus' demise.

- How did the corruption of the original happen according to the Quran or Mohammed or Allah or anyone else for that matter.

No such story in the Quran but the prophet made me know that it is corrupt, as well as Quran too. If you read the bible, you would realise the truth.

- When was it revealed that the original message has been corrupted, was it before the birth of Mohammed or during the lifetime of Mohammed or after his death.

After the demise of Jesus. Why repetition

The Bible was written on earth by inspired men(under inspiration of the Spirit) over thousands of years (and not in one single day).
Also, yes there are translations of the bible from one language (Greek, Latin, English, Yoruba etc) to another, hence that some of the english translations have translation problems, considering that the ancient manuscripts are still available to correct any translation problems. Unless people seek to be mischevious, its easy to understand that even though errors in translations are corrected overtime, nevertheless no corrections are made to the original manuscripts overtime, hence since the ancient words remain true and uncorrupted contrary to your assertions, hence its easy to see the falsehood in the assertions that the bible has errors.

For example, a typical translation problem that can be encountered can be seen even from the Yoruba language, provided proper context and alphabet ascents are not taking into account.

Yoruba - "Babatunde ni oko nla"
English translation 1 -  Babatunde has a big penis.
English translation 2 -  Babatunde has a big farm.
English translation 3 -  Babatunde has a big stone.

Dont deceive yourself. Read my post and the links supplied.

So my questions to you are:

- Who wrote the Quran.

Its Allah revelation to Muhammed (saw)

- Where was the Quran written (was it on earth or in the spiritual realm).

On earth of course.

- When was the Quran Written.

Would give you story of the Quran later

- Was any human being involved in the writing of the quran.

Yes

- Is the Quran perfect written.

Yes.

- Were there ever different any diagreeing copies of the Quran.

Nope

- Can the Quran be translated into English.

Yes

- Are there english translation problems with the Quran.

Its not the same as Arabic Quran due to translation problem.

Would continue when less busy.

@Thiefofheart

To ba ya the same people will come together whining that Muslims are always attacked. Is this thread meant to be a discussion or an attack on the Bible. Where's lagosboy, oyb, olabs and co o tell us the point of this thread

Sister, I raised this and other threads because of unrepentant Davidylan, Todak, Noetic and No2atheism and you would know that from the subject. I did this when I noticed their ignorance in my section. They claim to know more when it comes to religion thereby displaying lack of intelligent in my section. I have told them severally but they refused and I raised this thread and others to know how intelligent they could be. Go to Islam section and read what your brothers have turned it to.

@No2atheism

@babs787 by this time you would have noticed that i am a very detailed individual, i try not to leave anything to chances.
Hence can you kindly, do me a favour, show a little courtesy and answer the following questions to your best ability.
You do not have to answer everything, you can provide answers to those questions that you only have answers for.

Ok

Quote
Brother, maybe if I take you through the cannons of the bible, you would realize the truth

Ok

- What do you mean by the phrase "cannons of the bible".

- How do you know the cannons of the bible.

- Which cannons of the bible do you know.

- Which cannons of the bible do you consider to be the truth.

- Do you have the truthful cannons.

When you finish fooling yourself, read through these and know the meaning of cannons

http://www.why-christians-convert-to-islam.com/EXHIBITAv2.htm

http://www.why-christians-convert-to-islam.com/EXHIBITAv2.htm

http://www.why-christians-convert-to-islam.com/ExhibitE.htm

- Why do you bother to read, study and antagonise people who believe those cannons, considering dat you said they're not true.

Read through those links oga

Please go to this link to read more about the whole Bible and analysis of the Canonical and Apocryphal New Testament

Scriptureshttp://www.maplenet.net/~trowbridge/contents.htm

Also read about the New Testament canons through the ages
http://www.maplenet.net/~trowbridge/canons.htm

- Which original message became lost.

The one given to Jesus, Moses.Let me limit my response to NT for a start. Are you saying the Gospels, corinthians, Romans are part of the revelation given to Jesus?

There existed many different Bibles during the time of the Roman Emperor, Constantine, which were widely believed in by different Christian sects in the year 312. In other words, during the first 3 centuries of "Christianity" (300 years), many different canons with 100s of books/gospels combined existed! That is a lot of canons, a lot of books/gospels, and a lot of time (300 years) of different Christian religions existed. Also, Constantine's own "unified canon or bible" got lost and only small portions of it were found! So what we have today from "Bible(s)" are not even Constantine's books.

Read through this:

There are lots of canons, each written according to the church thus:

Anglican Church: The canon of the Anglican falls between the Catholic Church and many Protestant denominations by accepting only the Jewish canon and the New Testament as authoritative, but also by accepting segments of the apocryphal writings in the lectionary and liturgy. At one time all copies of the King James Version of 1611 included the Apocrypha between the Old and New Testaments.


Armenian Church: The noteworthy features of the Armenian version of the Bible was the inclusion of certain books that elsewhere was regarded as apocryphal. The Old Testament included the History of Joseph and Asenath and the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs, and the New Testament included the Epistle of Corinthians to Paul and a Third Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians.

Coptic Church: Athanasius issued his Thirty-Ninth Festal Epistle not only in the Greek but also in Coptic, in a slightly different form - though the list of the twenty seven books of the New Testament is the same in both languages. How far, however the list remained authoritative for the Copts is problematical. The Coptic (Bohairic) translation of the collection knowns as the Eighty-Five Apostlic Canons concludes with a different sequence of the books of the New Testament and is enlarged by the addition of two others: the four Gospels; the Acts of the Apostles; the fourteen Epistles of Paul (not mentioned individually); two Epistles of Peter, three of John, one of James, one of Jude; the Apocalypse of John; the two Epistles of Clement.


Ethiopic (Abyssinian) Church: This Church has the largest Bible of all, and and distinguishes different canons, the "narrower" and the "broader" according to the extent of the New Testament. The Ethiopic Old Testament comprises the books of the Hebrew Bible as well as all of the deuterocanonical books listed above, along with Jubilees, I Enoch, and Joseph ben Gorion's (Josippon's) medieval history of the Jews and other nations. The New Testament in what is referred to as the "broader" canon is made up of thirty-five books, joining to the usual twenty-seven books eight additional texts, namely four sections of church order from a compilation called Sinodos, two sections from the Ethiopic Book of the Covenant, Ethiopic Clement, and Ethiopic Didascalia. When the "narrower" New Testament canon is followed, it is made up of only the familiar twenty-seven books, but then the Old Testament books are divided differently so that they make up 54 books instead of 46. In both the narrower and broader canon, the total number of books comes to 81.

Greek Orthodox Church: The Bible of the Greek Orthodox church comprises all of the books accepted by the Roman Catholic church, plus I Esdras, the Prayer of Manasseh, Psalm 151, and 3 Maccabees. The Slavonic canon adds 2 Esdras, but designates I and 2 Esdras as 2 and 3 Esdras. Other Eastern churches have 4 Maccabees as well.
[b]
Protestant Church: [/b]Historically, Protestant churches have recognized the Hebrew canon as their Old Testament, although differently ordered, and with some books divided so that the total number of books is thirty-nine. These books, as arranged in the traditional English Bible, fall into three types of literature: seventeen historical books (Genesis to Esther), five poetical books (Job to Song of Solomon), and seventeen prophetical books. With the addition of another twenty-seven books (the four Gospels, Acts, twenty-one letters, and the book of Revelation), called the New Testament, the Christian scriptures are complete.
[b]
Roman Catholic Church: [/b]The Protestant canon took shape by rejecting a number of books and parts of books that had for centuries been part of the Old Testament in the Greek Septuagint and in the Latin Vulgate, and had gained wide acceptance within the Roman Catholic church. In response to the Protestant Reformation, at the Council of Trent (1546) the Catholic church accepted, as deuterocanonical, Tobit, Judith, the Greek additions to Esther, the Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach, Baruch, the Letter of Jeremiah, three Greek additions to Daniel (the Prayer of Azariah and the Song of the Three Jews, Susanna, and Bel and the Dragon), and I and 2 Maccabees. These books, together with those in the Jewish canon and the New Testament, constitute the total of seventy [b]three books accepted by the Roman Catholic church.

Syriac Church: [/b]Syriac Churches used the Diatesseron, the four-in-one Gospel, introduced by Tatian, and was read in the Syriac Churches for quite some time before it was replaced by Peshitta. Peshitta has again a different number of Books in the New Testament. This represents for the New Testament an accomodation of the canon of the Syrians with that of the Greeks. Third Corinthians was rejected, and, in addition to the fourteen Pauline Epistles (including Hebrews, following Philemon), three longer Catholic Epistles (James, 1 Peter, and 1 John) were included. The four shorter Catholic Epistles (2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, and Jude) and the Apocalypse are absent from the Peshitta Syriac version, and thus the Syriac canon of the New Testament contained but twenty-two writings. For a large part of the Syrian Church this constituted the closing of the canon, for after the Council of Ephesus (431 CE) the East Syrians separated themselves as Nestorians from the Great Church.

Going through the above, one wonders which is following the original manuscript. The above tells that the original has been lost or corrupted.

- When did the original message become lost.

After the demise of Jesus

- How did you know that the original message became lost.

Contradictions, words of historians, irrelevant words, unfulfilled prophecies ascribed to Jesus etc

- Do you have a copy of the reference material that you used to determine that the original message has been lost.

I wouldnt know why you are still asking me this when its very glaring that the original message is lost
Read the links

Glad to tell you that some early greek manuscript do not contain John 7 v 53 to John 8 v

- Do you have a copy of what the original message is supposed to be, considering that something must have existed in the first place before it becomes lost.

The links are there for you to check up

- How did the original message become lost.

Read again:

The Muratorian Canon
The Canon Of Origen (A.D. c. 185 - 254)
The Canon Of Eusebius Of Caesarea (A.D. 265 - 340)
A Canon Of Uncertain Date And Provenance Inserted in Codex Claromontanus
The Canon Of Cyril Of Jerusalem (c. A.D. 350)
The Cheltenham Canon (c. A.D. 360)
The Canon Approved By The Synod Of Laodicea (c. A.D. 363)
The Canon Of Athanasius (A.D. 367)
The Canon Approved By The 'Apostolic Canons' (c. A.D. 380)
The Canon Of Gregory Of Nazianzus (A.D. 329 - 89)
The Canon Of Amphilochius Of Iconium (d. 394)
The Canon Approved By The Third Synod Of Carthage (A.D. 397)
The Canons Of The Old Testament & The New Testament Through The Ages

- How can we get the original message back.

By reading the Quran which happened to be the last book. The Bible was not given to Jesus but a gosel and not gospels.

@Todak

I see, babs you like to control people like robots, i'm not one of your robot, go back to the post and re-read. I see this is one of the ways you evade questions you do not have answerss to, poor you. remeber when you finally go back to re-read it, do not put on your islamic googles and refute me blindly .ok,

How would I control you when you are not my wife and kids. Please I couldn't see the question and would appreciate if you can resend them for me.

I beg you in the name of Jesus to do that for me please

prolly the continuous insults on our God and religion, knowing you wont stop. . . you berra be preparing to unleash B noetic

Salam

I support Lagosboy with regards to the schools but let us read more here and would come in when less busy
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=2274&CATE=122

@Todak

I think I cant accomodate you agaib, you have displayed lack of intelligent in your post. You keep making denials when answers and explanations have been given. I tire for you, I cant go further than this.

You need to start adult education.