₦airaland Forum

Oops! My post on "Baba" was meant for topic "Mode Nine Answers Your Questions Even About 'this Baba that Baba'"

Of course Tosin, just stating the obvious.

Good attempt Tosin; never knew you could rhyme

And there goes Java with an extra-terrestrial program only angels can decode!

@topic
Tha whole thang's getting pretty interesting. And for the "Baba" issue, IMO Mode couldn't have been dissin' 2Baba. Both of em even collaboed on 9's "Africa". Neither could he be dissin' Soul E - Why?

Let the games begin guys. . .

And make 'em interesting and intelligent!

Baby fimile
Baby fimile
Baby fimile
Emi gangan lomo onile


Shakomo - Eeedris Abdulkareem

seun001:
hmmmmmm,this thread is most interesting.but i did like to sound my opinion.
firstly, am not a fan of Nas.i don't think i listen to him and want to press the replay button.So since have no info on him,i can't compare.

Secondly, between Dmx and Eminem,i prefer Dmx.Eminem is good, darn good but i find it difficult to place him above Dmx.i have all Eminem albums and i can comfortably say he doesnt have as much classics as Dmx.
as for Em winning best rapper alive,i guess the parameters used in deciding that factor is flawed, abegi na beans

finally,am not a guru when it comes to rap but i know good lines when i see one.this response shoulda been after u guys argument about Dmx and EM but i just got the chance to post.

helenpee:
This debate is really interestin and educative. kudos to you guys. Bamsyle actually made a lot of brilliant points.
mr. Sauron, eminem is good i like him but u're over-ratin him. also, i must advise you not to be so annoyed. this is a public forum and people like us want to learn from you guys. when you abuse people, you lose your self-respect and respect from other people. all we're doing here is to express our views and not to abuse anybody. cheers!

Many thanks y'all

Sauron, at this point, I'll have to say you were not worth my time at all. Now I know the type of individual you are. Probably you were not taught any values at the early stages of your idle life or you simply refused to accept training.

Or else how does one justify your outbursts on this debate? You don't even know how to approach any issue intelligently. You open your foul mouth and all you can spit is gibberish.

Read your post again. In fact, read what you've been posting for sum time. You're not making sense at all. Instead of addressing the issue under debate here, all you can resort to is abusive language. Look at how many times you used the word 'idiot'and a whole lot of abusive words. Shows your upbringing.

You saw a typo error in my post and you call it iiliteracy? I can't count the number of typos in your posts.

Anyone reading this thread would know you lost this debate long ago. So I'll leave you to your ignorance. As they say, "ignorance is bliss". You have no spirit of sportsmanship. All other peops who started this debate with you have elected to leave you to your folly.

I'll not debase myself by descending to your shameful level. When next you post anything sensible on this issue, I'll reply. But if all you can resort to is abuse, celebrate your shame for the whole world to see. I would not bother to reply you anymore if that's your choice. That would amount to casting my pearls before swine.

@Sauron

Forgotten how gay groups congregated at the Grammys protesting Eminem's nomination??

Elton John even performed the song "Stan" with him. Elton John is a certified gay

@Sauron

What is the point of using 5000 words when only 50 can do??

Cos a word is enuf for the wise. But 5000 ain't even enuf for . . .

There you go again. World Footballer of The Year is different from Best Footballer Alive. You mos' def' got a problem with semantics and you'll need to take English lessons. Obviously the money spent on your English lessons was a waste

Award did not say Best for Year 2008. Or 2000 - 2008. It said Best Alive. Use your big brain. Think before you post and stop thrashing wildly about, posting any zero cent that comes to your idle mind.

Em is NOT the best alive. Cry all you can. He's NOT.

The way you keep referring to cheap spliffs, seems like you're the one smoking stuff here. Throw your spliffs out the window and read my post again. I said Pac is dead and continues to out-sell your demi-god. What has Bob Marley et al got to do with this? I'm comparing here. And I'm comparing the dead with the living. If Bob Marley and those cats on your list are the best-selling in their genre, it even corroborates what I'm saying - They're the best.

Now I know you're camel. By your ill-conceived theory, Nas spat "Nas, the millionaire the mansions" (as against "BIG, the millionaire the mansions". He used Biggie's lines as a hook. To you, that's biting. Em spat what I posted earlier. Very similar in rhyme pattern and lines to Rakim's. And you're kicking up some cheap Rakim spiritual/Em Columbine ish. Is theme/subject matter the issue when biting is concerned? Read those lines well. Check the rhyme pattern. Are you blind?

Em uses Rakim's lines as a hook and you still claim he's innocent. This is ignorance at its height.

Your Beyonce/Usher fans makes no sense - even to a lunatic. Ask yourself - who are their fans? I don't wanna waste time on this.

And that gay protest doesn't move me an inch. What should the organizers have done? Withdraw his nomination cos a bunch of gays are protesting? At the very time and venue of the ceremony? Lap up that vomit.

You keep screaming Em defeated rappers. We told you about Rhymefest and Juice (unpopular rappers for that matter). You couldn't say nada. You didn't even know. And you're a rap veteran And you keep referring to Canibus. Let him battle Nas or any big cat out there. Then we'll go to the score board.

Last word: Don't always be quick to reply. Even a fool is regarded as wise when he keeps quiet. You know nutin about rap/hip-hop. Stop wasting your idle mind. Get sumthing resourceful to do. Biggie says to tell you "Your mind is a terrible thang to waste"

Hope I didn't just bite Biggie!

Sauron, your recent posts suggest to me that you want to have the honour of having the last post on this debate (cos you're not saying anything new, nay, you're not saying anything). I won't give you that privilege. Am I tormenting you?

First off, Em is good. And IMO, he doesn't sell records cos he's white.

And to the rest of your homiletics:

You still don't understand my take on Pac's album sales. To start with, we both agreed record sales mean nada. Also, I introduced album sales issue as a minor issue, not a major one. I said it in a single short sentence. And for the umpteenth time all I'm saying is Pac is gone and is still selling records. Dude, take a minute and ponder on that. I don't care if he sold more while alive.

BTW, "All Eyez on Me", the first double rap album ever, by RIAA's records, sold over 9 million copies in the United States in 2 years. The album has since reached diamond status (though not officially recognized by RIAA because no recount has been requested). "Don Killuminati: The 7 Day Theory" sold 663,000 copies its first week and then Tupac became the first rapper ever to have two #1 albums in the same year. The album has gone 9 times platinum, sold 28 million copies and counting. "Until The End Of Time" was the best selling rap record of 2001. The last two were released after his death. MMLP has only sold 21 million copies. In 2001, Tupac was by far the best selling hip hop/rap artiste of all time and #20 of all time in the solo artistes category . . . of any genre.

That's the dude you dare compare with Eminem.

I'm saying he died more than a decade ago and HE IS STLL SELLING MORE THAN A LIVING RAPPER. What part of that sentence don't you understand? And don't forget that we now live in an era where peops download records more than they buy them. I don't think Em's post-humous records can sell like that.

And you call 5 Million just? Unless Em comes up with sumn better than what he's shittin' now, I doubt that "King Mathers" would sell up to that.

That aside, any time you say 75 million, always add "and counting"

"Biggie and Pac would always come first. . . . .Jigga and Nas are several notches below the late legends". That's one of the most concise statements you've ever made on NL. But maybe you didn't understand my use of the word 'par' in that context. I meant 'collabo' - not that Nas is Pac's or Biggie's equal. Of course he's far below 'em. You said Nas was afraid to feature Em on "The Cross". I replied - if Nas could collabo with these two cats, who's Em? Nas would have nailed Em to the cross if he was featured

Someone already told you that only an idiot would think Em deserves that award so I won't dwell on that.

On 'biting', so you mean - when anyone quotes or uses someone else's words, he must always salute the person? You're wrong. Some works or quotes are so notorious/popular everybody knows who said them. So if I include "I have a dream" or "By any means possible" in any of my personal statements, I must salute Martin Luther King or Malcolm X? Your understanding of biting is short of one fact. I tried explaining it to you. Eldee also tried. And that is - THE WAY THE LINES ARE USED.

In Eminem's MMLP, the chorus for "The Way I Am" is similar to a rhyme used by Rakim in the song "As The Rhyme Goes On" from his debut album with Eric B,

I’m the R the A to the K-I-M
If I wasn’t, then why would I say I am?

The first two lines from the third verse of Eminem's "I'm Back" are based on lines from Rakim's/Eric B's "My Melody". In "I'm Back", Eminem says:

I take seven (kids) from (Columbine), stand 'em all in line
Add an AK-47, a revolver, a nine
a Mack-11 and it oughta solve the problem of mine
and that's a whole school of bullies shot up all at one time

In "My Melody", Rakim said (Verse 4, lines 13 - 14):

I take 7 MC's put em in a line
And add 7 more brothas who think they can rhyme
Well, it'll take 7 more before I go for mine
And that's 21 MC's ate up at the same time


By your analysis, wasn't that biting?

Let me break it down for you like this : the question is - how did Nas use those Biggie lines? Did he use them word for word, flow for flow? Plus you know what? Quit using someone else's comments as if they're yours. I doubt that you've listened to the alleged tracks by Nas yourself. That shit you posted is on
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sszLKVdBIWU and it's someone else's comment (you even reported the alleged tracks in same sequence). That's 'biting'

What album changed the rap scene? MMLP? So, the fact that several accusations were levelled against Em translates to real hip-hop? U never cease to amaze me. "Sickest of mind" to cope with MMLP? and "not for the frailed hearts"? With that overall pop sound? That album was good and more serious than SSLP. But it was controversial, not hardcore. Em is not hardcore. Never. Of course hardcore does not mean real hip-hop but quit your "Hardcore Em" ish.

Regular Usher or Beyonce fans would more than cope listening to MMLP. Even Britney Spears or Celine Dion fans. U think because he talks about killing his wife or raping/abusing his mother, that makes it hardcore or scary? Or using swear words? Of course Em uses swear words. So what? Obie Trice in his track in the 8 Mile collection used the f word 99% of the time. Yet we did not bat an eyelid. It's the overall sound that matters. Though I won't say Em is skilled cos of his whiteness, I can assure you that 90% of those who bought MMLP are white teenagers. That's his audience. Or you want to tell me nigg**s in the projects bought more copies? Nah. A 10-year old girl would listen to that album and laugh all the way. Even a 90-year old grandma. Em's attempts at being hardcore elicits more laughter than when he clowns. Didn't you see what he looked like in the video of "Cleaning My Closet"? U've got to be kidding me.

And yet another contradictory statement: "Eminem might not necessarily be the best rapper alive BUT to say he does not deserve the award is a tad folly".

The award was for Best Rapper Alive NOT for One of The Best Rappers Alive. I've noticed that you have a problem with semantics. What you on? He is good but he does not deserve it.

Nas ain't dead yet.

Sauron, I've always had a lot of respect for you. In the music section of NL, I've always respected anything that comes from you and Eldee.

And that respect would always remain even after this debate. We may agree or disagree over anything or at any point in time. That I'm still replying you at all shows I view you as an intelligent person. If not, I'd have ignored you long ago - cos you started sounding funny long ago. But don't take thangs personal.

This debate is on a freefall. It's heading nowhere. It's heading in (to use J.P. Clarke's words in his poem "Pauper" all directions, in no direction. And I feel it's cos you keep kicking up just anything that comes to your mind to help you win this debate. I've tried hard but just can't see any consistency or direction in your arguments here.

You've made a lot of false accusations and contradictory statements in your frantic/desperate bid to win by any means. For the records, let's put some thangs straight here and now:

False Accusation 1: You said I'm biased cos of Em's colour.
My Reply: I'm not. Take the pains to read through all my posts on this thread and nowhere will you see me making any reference to Em's colour. I've taken up a lot of guys on that many times. I admire Em a lot. I rate rappers based on their abilities only, not anything else. Other peops said colour but maybe in haste, you mistakenly claimed I did.

False Accusation 2: You said I denied Nas 'bit' Biggie.
My Reply: I only asked you for sources/links. Just the same way you asked Wordsmith for links on his claim of Rhymefest's win over Em in one of your earlier posts. And even when you posted the lyrics under reference, I did not go dumb. I tried to explain to analyse what biting really is in its true context. Read my posts on this issue again.

False Accusation 3: You claimed I said Em never replied DMX.
My Reply: Again, read my posts. I only posted DMX's diss lyrics to Em. I never claimed Em did not reply. The only thing that's left to reasoning is whether or not that was a reply worth being reckoned with.

And it goes on. You don't have to win at all costs. You also made contradictory statements. Most significant one is your Pac & Em comparison. Go read one of your posts on 15th Oct. You said: "After BIG and 2pac comes Eminem". You then suddenly turn full swing and start rating Em over Pac. What's going on? I see here a desperate bid to win even when you've already lost. Some peops might agree on your Em over Nas ish. But Pac? Homie, that was a 'misyarn' from a so-called 'rap veteran'.

Seems like you're always in a hurry to post anything that comes to your mind. Think before you post. You keep referring to claims I never made. Did I ever rate Nas over Em based on who's been longer in the game? I'm always been an advocate of change, freshness. See, if any rapper emerges today who sounds better than even Pac or Biggie, I'll be the first to admit it. Like I said earlier, I rate rappers based on abilities not anything else - not their longevity in the game, creed, colour, religion, criminal record. No. Even my album sales theory was misunderstood by you. We're comparing a dead man's album sales with those of a living man. How many albums has Rakim sold? I'm happy at least you admitted album sales ain't an indication of a rapper's intelligence.

Your claim that Nas stopped Em from spitting on "The Cross" is laughable. I've always advised you to add IMO to some thangs you say. The smelly thangs you vomit atimes make you look like a camel. If Nas could par with BIG or Pac, who is Eminem?

I'm not deaf to Em's crazy wordplay, mad-ass delivery, sick rhymes & flows. All I'm stating categorically is that even with all that, he's still nowhere near Nas. It may sadden your heart that's so filled with love for Em to hear that but it's the truth. And a lot of peops in here have said that.

If we take polls here on this issue, the result would make you cry like a baby

_{Thinking - "Dear Lord, I can't believe I replying this nucca again. Neways. . ."}

For want of time, I won't go into all you spat there word for word. You didn't say anything new. You just keep repeating your weak points over n over again you're beginning to sound like a broken record. I'll just address the aspects that have a semblance of freshness (old points remixed to have a new sound).

Let's put to rest this your biting ish that's giving you mad and new-found joy. Go do your research very well. Almost every rapper's style can be traced to Rakim and Kool G. Rap. Guess you don't even know these guys. Never heard you mention their names before. You were prolly still sucking yo' momma's titties back then. If you do your research well, you would conclude that B.I.G. jacked Kool G's style. You would even link Pac with Rakim. You see, every above average MC took something from Rakim as well. Do your research very well.

And what's biting? Biting is stealing lyrics, flows, voices, beats, styles, images, dances, and whatever else you can think of and claims it as yours.

Note:
1. It's beyond lyrics only. Could be beats like Em did as I pointed out earlier
2. You must use it in a way that makes peops believe it's yours to be liable

What I've been trying to explain to you in English (but which I think sumone from your village needs to translate in your mother tongue for you to understand) is that it's very easy to notice when a rapper bites lyrics. You're using another person's words so it's easy to notice. But when you jack beats or a part of it, it's more difficult cos it's not clear to the world except those who go the extra mile to do research. And that shows you've got sumn to hide. Em's guilty of this.

Not all those that bite do it for want of rap verses. Some rappers even pay tribute to another and you'll call it biting. Nas quoted Biggie's "on the road to riches" and you call it biting. He used "Lord have mercy Jesus Christ. . ." as a chorus on his "Last Real Nigga Alive" and you call it biting. The question you should be intelligent enough to ask yourself is - did he try to make it sound like it's his own? So you want to tell me Nas ran out of verses or what? I gave you examples of your demi-god Em stealing beats without permission and you started to cry. He was even sued for it. My point is you would never catch me dead blaming a rapper for biting another's lines. Biting is a very controversial thingy. Is anything new or original? Every rapper bites sum other rapper. It all depends on how you do it. Once you don't copy sumone else's overall style, it's all good. You think Em is original? He started rapping from his momma's womb right? Em once said it in an interview that at the start of his rap career, he had listened to Nas so much he was initially sounding like him.

(Popular) rappers are bitin' a no name rapper that's flowin' their hood. Biting or no biting is not the issue here. Stop derailing. Biting or not biting, we still agree Jay-Z is a good rapper. One of the indices of a good rapper is not whether he bites or doesn't. I won't even argue this ish with you no more cos it's the only thing you're now hanging onto for survival. Stick to it and make yourself happy for now. That's your Ecstacy Pill. You're on a long thing.

And you keep screaming your "2pac's 4 albums = a legend theory". I won't waste time with you on that too. Cos your shallow mind can only digest the bread and butter that Em spits. You can't digest advanced stuff from the likes of Pac and Nas. No hip hop head in his right senses would dare disregard those two names.

Same goes for DMX. All those crap you spent precious time typing is what you call a reply? Let other peops judge you on that one. I took you up on Nas v. Em. In your bid to win, you kicked up all sorts of names - Redman, Lauryn Hill, Biggie, Pac, DMX, Foxy Brown, Dr. Dre. For want of time, I'll just stick to Nas.

You keep flaunting your high-level ignorance of rap music on a public forum - all in a bid to win a debate you already lost at all cost. See, Nas is not for shallow minds like yours. That's why you're so impressed by Em the pop star. You need to read reviews on Nas. One of them reads:

"What makes Nas different from other rappers is his incredibly keen eye for detail; he gives his listener all the pleasures of sonic cartooning whilst also driving home more complicated and truthful emotions. Nas' ability to deal with his own vulnerability without being mawkish or casting himself as the tough guy with the gun is the source of most of his best rhymes. He did this with "Made You Look" for instance. He makes you laugh and at the same time get serious. He has his own perspective on the violence - he's a storyteller"

Another:

"Nas' perspective is his ability to write first-person rhymes with the mind of a youngster growing up in the projects, with his eyes wide open to the world of violence, drugs and guns that West Coast rappers claimed to inhabit in real life. The youthful persona he invented allowed the rapper to uphold the East Coast values of lyrical and narrative complexity while also being "realer" than the L.A. rappers on their favorite subjects - drug dealing and gang warfare"

And yet another:

"Nas could also flow better than any other rapper in New York - continuing a story or developing a character for minutes without losing the thread of his rhyme. An alert listener wouldn't help but notice the well-honed vocabulary, the vivid imagery of Nas' raps. Here is a gangsta rapper who didn't feel the need to pose as a gangsta"

Another compares him and Eminem.

"Eminem is a pop star whose major market consists of suburban teenagers. Even at that, the difference between the two rappers isn't race or popularity - it's that Nas has figured out how to use his new-found distance from the street to improve his craft, while Eminem continues to act out his troubled trailer-trash persona for legions of fans like you who might be put off by the darkness and blackness of rappers like Slick Rick, Biggie Smalls, and Nas. That's not to say that Eminem isn't a pretty good rapper but he's nowhere near Nas.

(All from http://www.slate.com/id/2074649/).

You know what? I respect both rappers. I even like their comradeship. If you take time to study 'em, you'll know they both have ultimate respect for each other. Em even produced a track in "God's Son" (The Cross).

But when it comes to separating the men from the boys. . .

My conclusion - Nas is too complex for your lazy mind to understand.

Em's raps are mostly for kids - young and undeveloped minds like yours. If you're honest and sincere with yourself, you'll agree that it's easier for a 14 year old to understand Em than Nas.

You know what? Nas had peops like you in mind when he said:

People fear what they don't understand, hate what they can't conquer. . .

@Sauron

@ Bamsyle,

Now i know you are a rap illiterate.

How can u equate sampling with biting. . . .
The rubbish list u had on Eminem. . . . .are those people rappers??
Is Dido a rapper? Aerosmith? or what the crap are you talking about??
Nas was biting Biggie's lyrics word for word and all u can tell me is Eminem sampled Aerosmith and Dido(which he featured on Stan??)

Dawg, that 'rubbish' list is to show you how crappy your demi-god can be. He can't even use works from fellow rappers. He had to steal from jazz/rock artistes. Just like he prefers to diss George Bush, Michael Jackson, ICP et al Sampling a tune, chorus, etc is worse than biting lines. We all know a chorus is the most important part of any song. Just imagine "Stan" without that chorus Could never have been such a hit. Personally, I prefer biting/sampling from other rappers to sampling beats, choruses, instrumentation. A good rapper would never run out of rap verses. Biting or whatever you call it is just to prove a point, maybe for emphasis or sumn. Doesn't mean the rapper can't spit his own rap verses. It's just like Sauron quoting what George Clinton said ("The Blind Stares of A Million Pairs of Eyes. . ." in the intro of 2pac's "Can't See Me"as his signature on NL

Now, seriously - though your Nas biting ish is unfounded (just gave you a quick reply), let's just assume he did. He did all those sturvs for emphasis. If you were intelligent enough, you'll be able to differentiate between when a rapper bites for want of his own original verses and when he does for emphasis. He was quoting from a rapper greater than he is. It depends on the context in which it's used dawg. So don't get over-excited like a lost traveller who just found a map. Sit your arse down and let's go through the rest of the crap you wrote. . .

Jeeeez, i have lost the appetite to continue this debate.

Oh, so you just lost your appetite? You lost this debate long ago

Eminem(as far as sales) are concerned is the best out there. Forget 2pac who needed 12 albums to burst the 75 milla mark.
Slimshady only needed 4. . . . .If he makes 12 albums before he retires, he would see 250 million album sales.

Always add IMO to sum sturvs you say. Surely Em would sell 250M since you'll be the one marketing him Aside, when did sales become a parameter for rating an artiste's worth? So Em has now become Pac's mate? You're not even ashamed - a dead man's albums have outsold those of a living one. Pac released 5 albums before he died. Apart from "Until The End of Time", a lot of peops have criticized the general presentation of his post-humous albums, saying they lack 2pac's original feel and essence, even production. A lot of 'em are even remixes. And you're comparing him with your living corpse? Don't only listen to albums, read reviews (e.g Amazon.com). If Pac's songs were re-cycled in a hundred years to come, peops would still buy. For how long would Em's post-humous albums last?

The same ranking that placed Eminem 9th on the list told us he has 3 undeniable classics in 4 albums.
Nas has 3 undeniable classics in 8 albums. I would let neutrals be the judge of this. . . . .
The man from QB bit Biggie and it's ironic when he was dissing Jigga of biting Biggie's flows. . . .
Stop clutching at straws, up until today. . . . .U have never heard this piece of info and u call yourself a rap fan?? Puhleeease, stick to Akpala.

3 undeniable classics? Go read all the reviews of those albums anywhere and you'll see this dude thrives on controversies to sell. Cheap popularity. Check Slim Shady LP - in "97 Bonnie and Clyde", he talks about killing his wife. Check MMLP - in "The Real Slim Shady", he insults celebrities (Britney Spears et al). Claims Christina Aguilera performed MouthAction on Fred Durst and Carson Daly. In "Stan", he again plays the role of a fan who kills himself and his pregnant girlfriend. What sort of artiste drops names of celebrities so he can sell records? I'll always maintain that I like Em. He's good but let the truth be told. We all know controversy sells like hot cake. Comparing him to Nas is bad enough. But Pac? That's foolhardy.

"Clutching at straws"? Quit biting my lines dawg. I used that phrase earlier on this thread

To DMX. . . . .He moved 700,000 units in it's first week and went on to sell 6X platinum(big deal)!!
Eminem's weakest album in sales(Slim Shady LP) went on to sell 9X platinum and made Rolling Stone's top 500 albums of all time.
How can u compare the depth n darkness of his first 2 albums to And Then There Was X?? It was too shallow lyrically.
DMX's best album would always be the 2 albums he released in 1998.
If Dr. Dre and Jim Iovine could risk their necks to sign a white boy, he's definitely got talents.
Afterall, Dre tried his luck with Nas, Foxxy and AZ(The Firm) and flopped.

Agreed - 'depth n darkness' were lacking in DMX's "And Then There Was X". It was a deviation from the religious and spiritual themes of his 2 previous releases. But dude consciously changed his game. That is interesting to me. Shows his flexibility. Shallow lyrically? Because they were not, erm. . . deep n dark? Do lyrics have to be deep n dark to be good? A track like "Angel" has shallow lyrics? " Check out "Party Up" in which the Grand Champ dissed your demi-god. Check out this excerpt:

You wack, you're twisted, your girl's a hoe
You're broke, the kid ain't yours, and everybody know
Your old man say "you stupid", you be like "So"?
I love my baby mother, I never let her go"

What These Bi***es Want" produced one of the craftiest punchlines in rap music. Check it:

Aiyyo, I think about when a nigga didn't have (YEAH)
And a nigga told a joke, and the bitches didn't laugh

What's more? It inspired a tradition in those days. It inspired a lot of folks to use anything to rhyme - from names to objects and whatever. So we could have sumn like:

"There was Jackal, Hannibal
Sauron, A slowpoke"

Just playing around dawg, don't get at me!

@Sauron

@ Bamsyle,

let me address your frail points as soon as i can. . . .

First off, DMX bursted into the scene in 98 with promises. . . . . .He kind of changed the scenery with the way Bad Boy was all about Lex, Cristalz, Rolexes and the glamour life. DMX came with something different but still had the 2pac attitude in it.
Bald, top-off, canine and octane charged with barking and screamings which worked well but after FLESH OF MA FLESH, Nigga went off the boil.
Only an idiot would say "And There Was X" was a classic. . . . . .Did it even get nominated in the grammy's?? If we base every album on billboard charts, Eminem would murder everyone so lets forget billboards and soundscan.

Now let me clean up the garbage you just vomitted here. . .

DMX released his third album, "And Then There Was X" in 1999. It debuted at number one on the pop charts, his third straight album to do so. "Party Up" was his biggest single, and became his first Top 10 hit on the R&B charts. His lead single off the album, "What's My Name?", and third single "What These Bitches Want" (featuring Sisqo) were also mega hits. This is his best-selling album to date, going six times platinum (sold approximately 698,000 in its first week). Need I mention tracks like "Fame" and "Here We Go Again", "Don't You Ever", "Coming For Ya", "-X-L" and "The Professional"? Grammy? Don't even go there. Even an 8-year old baby knows that only pop idols like your god, Eminem get Grammy nominations

Secondly, Comparing Ether to 2nd Round K.O?? Are u a hip hop fan or a plastic fan??
Ether wasn't great because it contained many personals which didn't score. . . . .The fact that Nas was dissing Jigga does not make ETHER a great diss record.
Too slow, not complex. It was more like story-telling which was rubbish. Jigga helped ETHER to HIT as he could not come up with something better to blow ETHER to bits. The fact that Nas influenced Eminem means shyte. Big Daddy Kane, Rob Base and MC Hammer influenced Biggie, does that make em better? Who am i arguing with FFS? Are u a Philistine??
While Nas was number 5, Em was number 9 and that was frigging 2003. If they do the ranking again, roles would change.
Since then, Nas has dropped something near a classic.
From the same MTV link u got that information, tell me the number of undeniable classics in ratio between Eminem, Jigga, Nas, and DMX.

You should have added IMO (in my opinion) to all the blepets you spewed there. Who's talking about the fact that Jigga was getting dissed? We're talking lyrical depth here dawg. Jigga helped Ether to hit? Why didn't LL help 2nd Round K.O. to hit better? Find some more reasonable excuse hombre.

I'm talking about two rappers that are still very active in the rap game (Nas and Em), you're mentioning Big Daddy Kane, Rob Base, MC Hammer influencing Biggie sh*t. When was the last time you heard from these cats? Nas has been around for donkey years and he's still garnering critical acclaim. That's what I'm on. Of course Biggie's career eclipsed those guys' you mentioned. They faded fast. But Nas is still here. A living active legend. I'm sure you're not better than Kanye who asked: "What would it take to be a legend like Nas is"?

Eminem dropped his best album "The Marshall Mathers LP" in 2000. In 2003, MTV rates Nas as the 5th Greatest MC of All Time. Em comes far behind as No. 9. Does that tell you sumn? What would make the ranking change now? Is it with his freaking Eminem Show or Encore albums?

Eminem who broke the record of the fastest selling record in the world shouldn't be compared to who? Are u on spliffs??
2pac with more than 12 studio albums have sold just75 million records worldwide. . . .Eminem with 4 albums have sold 70 million records.
Lets do the average and tell me if 2pac even gets near. . . . .
All Eyez On Me. . . .2pac's most successful album took 4 weeks to reach platinum status. . . . .MMLP sold 1.8 million units in it's 1st week.
Talking about record sales would put u in a deep pit and bury your argument. . . .Sales ain't no factor.

Fastest-selling album my foot. So that places him on the same level with Pac? Album sales that I mentioned earlier was just an aside point. I can see you're so eager to jump at that that. Slow down. Consider the factors that make an album sell. Pac rapped his heart out. He was real. Em raps controversies. Killing his girlfriend. Abusing his mom. He uses such themes to get freaks like you to buy his albums Well, you said it - Sales ain't no factor.

Nas BITING Biggie LYRICS. . . . . . .

Biggie
On the road to riches & diamond rings(Real Niggaz lyrics)
Nas
On the road to riches & diamond rings(NIGGER)

Biggie
Lord have mercy Jesus Christ hes just nice he just slice like a jinsu look what i been through(Decisions/Stress remix) featuring MOP and Prince Po.
Nas
Lord have mercy Jesus Christ hes just nice he just slice like a jinsu look what i been through(Last Real Nigga Alive)

Biggie. . .
Biggie smalls the millionaire the mansion(Come On) featuring Sadat X
Nas. . . .
Nas the millionaire the mansion(Can't Forget About u) featuring Chrisette Michele.

Do u need more evidence where Nas bit Biggie with his canine??

You call that biting? Shows the level of your knowledge of rap. That was done to drive home a point. It's called sampling. And it was even done on a minor level. It's allowed in rap. Might use it for emphasis or some other point.

Didn't get it? Let me take you to school. Usually in music, when you do a short line, a few notes, a few lines and you don't make a complete copy of another song, this is called Sampling.

It's even good he "bit" from Biggie. Biggie was a genius. Great minds think alike. Who else would Nas "bite"? How about Eminem biting beats and sampling?

1. Jacques Loussier, a classical/jazz pianist based in Paris, sued Em for copyright infringement for lifting parts of his song "Pulsion" for "Kill You." Em's "Kill You" used a similar pulsing ascending and descending rhythmic tone and structure with Loussier's "Pulsion". Same tempo, same pulse.

2. An old woman, Harlene Stein sued him over "Guilty Conscience" which featured snippets from a 24-second piece called "Pigs Go Home" that her husband wrote for the score of the 1970 film "Getting Straight. He sampled the classical rock star Aerosmith's chorus and guitar solo (from ''Dream On') in his track "Sing For The Moment".

How about that?

3. Did Em not sample Dido's "Thank You" in his song "Stan"? Imagine that song without the chorus Did he not sample Martika's "Toy Soldiers" in his "Just Lose It"?

He samples. Only that he likes to do it smartly, covering up so his yes-men like you wouldn't notice.

And, by the way, I also addressed your fragile points ASAP. It took me 5 minutes to type this.

Java I'm happy you now like Tosinadeda

Damn!

Went away fo' some time and just returned to read some mo' blasphemies from Sauron! Man, these are the most blasphemous statements I've heard in my entire life. Examples:

Canibus would murder 2pac, Jay-Z, Nas and DMX waxed together. . . . Are u kidding me??
Em would barely last the distance with Canibus because Em himself has always been an MC battler. . . . .
Don't u ever mention Canibus and LLCool J/DMX in one sentence.
2nd round K.O. is still the best diss of all time. . . . .Forget "Hit 'Em Up". . . .It was overrated because the 2 giants died shortly after.

DMX and Ja Rule were the same thing. . . . .No difference. Both were Def Jam pitbulls who envisaged shouting on the mic would make em Pacs.
As soon as Eminem wrestled the mic away from Def Jam to Aftermath in 99/2000, their music career went phbbbbbbbbbbbbbbt!!!!

Fiddy is more gangster than 2pac. . . . . .The police restraining order gist were lies!!!!
Blackchild made those up when Po-Po got wind of what he planned to do with Fiddy. . . .How can Fiddy be a snitch??
A snitch?? Do u really think Blackchild(that wimp) would beat Fiddy in a boxing ring?? U make me laugh, dawg!!

@Kaydee, Bgees, A-40 et al

Where do we start from - to school this guy? Obviously, he doesn't know what he's talking about. He's got things really mixed up. I'm not sure he recognizes rappers by their names. Or how can one say Cannibus would murder Pac + Jay + Nas + X ? And he slights the legend DMX, referring to him as a shouting/barking dog? Saying Em killed X's career? Worst of all, he rates Em over Pac. And says Fiddy's more gangster than Pac?

@Sauron

You're really turning this whole Em issue into something else. Said a whole lot of things one doesn't even know where to start from. Let's start with Pac. Pac's gangsterism issue was blown out of proportion. No thanks to peops like you. IMO, Pac was not a gangster but he had a lion's heart. That dude was a fearless soldier. Never scared of nobody. Don't be deceived by Fiddy's chest a la biceps. That dude is a gay. Tell me who he has ever beaten before? How many times has he been to jail? Psshew. . . Studio gangster that doesn't know what time it is.

You've said this jay-walking stuff about Pac on some other threads before. It's boring, say something else. And although he had more legal/police issues than that, I won't even go into that.

See, let's put this issue of "Pac is this, Pac is that" into proper perspective. FYI, Pac's concept of "Thug Life" was just a philosophy of life. He developed the word into a backronym standing for "The Hate U Give Little Infants Fcuks Everybody". He declared that the dictionary definition of a "thug" as being a rogue or criminal was not how he used the term, rather he meant someone who came from an oppressive background, given little or no opportunity but still made a life for himself and is proud of it. Go listen to "Still I Rise" or read the poem "The Rose That Grew From The Concrete" and get a better understanding of Pac's themes or philosophy. You and all the bunch of peops who keep saying Pac faked being a gangster all need to be schooled. He never claimed that. He was just an ordinary guy like you and me. But he was unique - he could be as meek as a lamb this second but wild as a lion the other. The same lamb that spat "Keep Ya Head Up" is the lion that spat "Against All Odds".

Pac rapped about the social ills facing African-Americans, with songs like "The Streetz R Deathrow", "Changes", "Last Wordz, etc." He was a pot pourri of all sorts. Rapped about social inequality, injustice, hope. Was a combination of unbridled aggression, compassion, playfulness (playfulness in e.g "I Get Around". He's the most rounded and developed rapper et artiste in music history. You can mess around with other rappers but quit spewing all these sturvs about Pac. Contrary to what you said about your demi-god Em, Pac is the one you need a deep mind to understand. He's the most mis-understood rapper, nay, musician in the history of the world.

And then X. To start with, stop insulting DMX by comparing him with that gay JaRule. You dare compare Em with a dude with classic albums like "It's Dark and Hell Is Hot", "Flesh of my Flesh, Blood of my Blood" "And Then There Was X"? His album "Grand Champ" became his fifth straight album to debut at #1 and earned him the title of the only artist in history to have 5 albums (and his entire album catalog) debut at #1. What about the singles  "Lord Give Me A Sign" and "We In Here? If not for the criminal charges and multiple arrests that have marred his music career, these new kids on the block wouldn't have any spot in the rap industry. Pac did "Makavelli" in 7 days . . . from a prison . . . and yet it topped the charts. Let's wait for Em to do that.

How quick you forget. . .

And then you go on and on _{like onion} about Nas. Even Eminem, 50 Cent, The Game, Jermaine Dupri, and Jay-Z and Kanye West have all admitted being influenced by this dude's work. His lyrics have fetched him respect from icons like Rakim and Big Daddy Kane. They have him on their list of "Greatest MCs of All Time". Also, whilst Nas is #5 on MTV's list of The Greatest MCs of All Time, Em is #9. Does that tell you sumn?

What lines did Nas bite from Biggie? Provide quotes/sources please.

FYI, Hit 'Em Up may not be the best diss track ever but it ain't over-rated either. And 2nd Round K.O ain't the best diss track of all time. Ask any real hip-hop head out there and they'll tell you it ain't even close to Nas' "Ether".

Your god, Em, is good - agreed. But quit comparing him with Nas, DMX, Pac. Pac? Dude, tell me that was an error on your part. Em thrives more on controversies than anything else. Strip him of that and he ain't all that. Even in death, Pac outnumbers him in sales. In Em's Encore album, "Just Lose It" became notable for being disrespectful towards Michael Jackson. In the video, Eminem parodied Pee Wee Herman, MC Hammer, and Madonna. Stevie Wonder called the video "kicking a man while he's down" and "bullshit". "Mosh" was anti-Bush. Bush later won the election anyway The dude's always kicking up dust with everybody. His mom, Christina Aguilera, Britney Spears. Talk about being a gangster!

Em would beg you to stop these weird comparisons if he could reach you.

Bring the crowd to life by killing 'em with the flow
. . .Anyone who nurses grudge put it to bed
. . .The black knight wish you good night so have a bad day
Your resume got the naked truth covered up
I'm raw but I got my private part rubbered up!
I swore not to take an oath. . .
The paradox would never end
Nuff said

Contradiction - Modenine

Other rappers local
They using vocoder
I'm the koko
. . .if you still doubting
You're on a long thing

Safe - M.I

But i guess its a diss to one modenine's lines, can't really remember but i remembered modenine said something about his sh*t in the toilet, can't really remember

Even without they fingers in ma toilet, they feeling ma sh*t - Modenine

Police stop me for road and ask for my ID
I tell them he's prolly with Kenny on the street why you dey ask me

Jump Off - Terry tha Rapman

Your luck is at the edge of a cliff so don't push it

Spazmodic - Modenine

Mo gbona feli feli
I'm spittin like Makavelli
I'm always inside your telly
Your lyrics are smelly smelly
. . .Yebariba samboribobo
The ladies go local (sic)
When they hear his vocal

Safe - M.I

One of mine is from 2shot's, can't remember the name of the song

I meet this very fine opeke/
I no know say she be original mpeke/
Her backside make me shout chineke/
Wetin be your name? my name na Amaka Nweke/

Deliciou[/b]s - 2shotz/Big Lo


Heaven knows I'm as nice as hell
I defeat crews hands down ring the bell
. . .I'm smooth but I handle my friction
. . .I'm king in the subject of your discussion
Collide with my lyrics? Leave with concussions

[b]Contradiction - Modenine (my all-time fave Modo track)


The beef is intense, I feel it in the air, we're living in fear
. . .Life is rougher than the runway of Lagos airport
so i try not to crash land when i air thoughts

Fellow Nigerians - Modenine (second best Modo track)


This one's a chorus:

Don’t lie, everybody knows u like (head), so be a cheerful giver
Don’t be shy, we’ve all heard about your (head), you look like a brainy diva

Head - (Mode, Terry tha Rapman, and Baron killed this one)


Na only God sabi those wey go eventually make am
See the money rake am
No use gragra take am
Wetin some get to do na shut up
Cos even with bomb for them body, them still no fit blow up

Baraje - Ruggedman

Dem dey talk around the subject like our lawmakers
. . . From Nigeria the world only know Juju, Fuji and Afro beat
but we all know hip hop is running the streets
. . .Like when I dropped What If and split the air waves
Bur financially that left me grounded like Nigerian Airways
. . .Back then two rappers on stage was like seven throwing a tantrum

Ruggedy Baba - Ruggedman


Some people had their own opinions
. . . stuck to my onions
. . .Look through the eyes of a child he's still innocent

Adara - Sasha

@Sauron
Dude, you'll go to any extent to defend your demi-god Em.

No one spits more vocab than Eminem(Canibus just about shades it) but Jigga/Nas have limited subject matter.

I see where your mix-up is coming from. There's a difference between Vocab and Subject Matter. Vocab is simply what it is - vocabularies. Use of words. Yes Em spits mad vocabs. He's got a wide scope/ambit of words. One of ma fave joints from Em is "Without Me". I mean, especially the last (third) verse with those clever wordplays and multi-syllabic rhymes:

"But sometimes the shit just seems
everybody only wants to discuss me
So this must mean I'm dis-gus-ting
But it's just me, I'm just obscene No I'm not the first king of controversy
I am the worst thing since Elvis Presley"

And it goes on.

But homie let's be objective here.

Subject Matter? Otherwise known as theme? And you say Nas got limited themes? Nas has spat on politics, love, death, life in the projects, etc. He's got more themes than Em. You'll learn from Nas much more than you'll do from Em. Nas may not undulate between clowning this second and becoming serious the next. He may not be flexible like you want him to be but it's good for anyone to be known for sumn. Nas stands for Wisdom, Street Knowledge. Aiight you prefer wordplays and humour to serious stuff but tell me Em doesn't over-do his clowning ish atimes. Was "Smack That" with Akon not irritating to you? What about "Peep Show"? Be objective hombre.

I have the Anger Management Tour DVD. I have basically anything Em spat. Told you I like Em. But rating him above Nas is preposterous.

Foxy Brown schooled Nas? Dude, you keep vomitting on this thread lol. . .

Only thang between Nas and Foxy was that after the release of "Ill Na Na", she joined Nas, AZ and Nature to form The Firm. The album (The Firm) was released via Aftermath Records and was produced and recorded by Dr. Dre, The Trackmasters and Steve "Comissioner" Stout (of Violator Entertainment).

So what's this Foxy schooled Nas thingy? I'm also waiting for you to educate me on this theory.

The way you go on about Nas. . .

I've never seen any list of Top Rappers from a true rap/hip-hop fan without Nas' name appearing close to the greats like Pac and Biggie.

~Sauron~:
Good to know there are so many Eminem fans on NL. . . . . .
It takes an intellectual to understand what Em does on a record. . . .
Jigga/Nas are good but their shit is mostly for school drop-outs.
U want to listen to music with superb vocab and wordplay?? Eminem is the king.

_{*shakes head in pity*}

Takes an intellectual to understand Eminem? What would one not read on NL?

Which is more intellectual-related - Nas' wise nuggets/lyrics or Em's wordplay?

Jigga/Nas for school drop-outs? Now I think there's real trouble here. . . _{*go check your doctor*}

Source:
http://music.yahoo.com/read/news/61803020
http://www.myspace.com/sashafierce

@Sauron

There you go again. You're always misquoting peops - all because of your undying love for Em. Nowhere did I say Em cannot do laid-back flows. I said Nas would chew Em with laid-back flows. Does that mean the same with what you're saying? Just like you alleged I don't like Em cuz of his colour? Point out any of my posts where I said that.

On your 90% theory, your class teacher's got some more work to do. 3 students in your class scored 90% in same exam. You're saying they're equal, right? I agree. Now if those three students as it applies here are Nas, Em and Jay, where does your theory of Em is above Nas/Hov emanate from? You's gotta be from another planet. You're not saying Em is the best and yet no one is better than him. And in the same breath, you're saying Em is better than Nas and Jigga What you on dawg?

And don't even give us that "Nas, Em and Jigga are probably on the same page and fans would normally choose who they love hearing as the best" ish. We're not taking that at all. Don't eat your words. Sounds like you're losing but trying to win at all costs.

Nobody cares about Jigga beef. Unlike you, my own acid test of a true rapper ain't beef/freestyle battle. It ain't even collabos. It's the overall style.

On your Lauryn Hill/Redman thingy, you're on a long thing - enjoy your ride. No comments.

You ain't going nowhere with your Em Campaign bro. Give it up

@Sauron

My point is. . . . .I wouldn't call Eminem the BEST rapper alive BUT there's no one BETTER than him.

Can you hear yourself? Sounds like "I wouldn't say I have a headache but my head is aching me"

You're giving me a headache in here dawg. You're just clutching at straws, struggling hard to win this argument. Who told you I don't dig Em's style? I dig his style but unlike you, I ain't no Stan yo Well, I don't have to convince you I like him. Just saying he ain't the best rapper and he's not close to Nas (can't even touch him with a 5000meter pole). And what's with that Redman/Lauryn Hill thingy? OMG, you don't have to resort to just any theory just to win a debate. Like someone pointed out, I'm sure you never expected this argument to get so heated.

If we take a poll here on this issue, I'm sure you know what the result would be.

I 'member there was a time you argued so passionately for Fiddy on another thread. So who's your better rapper - Em or Fiddy?

@Sauron
You're over-flogging this issue dude. And mind you, I'm not being racist on this issue. Check all my posts and you'll discover I never said anything about Em's colour. I do not want to believe Em is accepted as good due to his colour. Forget colour - Em is good, I feel him. So we're on the same page to that extent.

But brotha, I totally disagree with you in many areas. Em is NOT the best rapper alive. NO WAY! Em is NOT even close to Nas. At all!

So you want to compare Em's so-called laid-back flows in Sing For The Moment, Stan and Rock Bottom with any of Nas' laid-back flows? And please what's that hardcore side of thangs you're bringing into this story? Em hardcore One of these days, the sun would shine at 12 midnight!!!

Hardcore is not the same as Angry. Em may sound angry atimes but hardcore?!!! Don't insult that genre abeg. I immediately 'member his collabo with Dre on "Say What You Say". I guess you'll say he sounded hardcore on that track. What about Biggie's "Dead Wrong"? Pac's "One Day At A Time"? Those tracks had hardcore feel but did Em bring the hardcore sound? I chose to name those tracks cos they're popular and all can judge. My point is place Em side by side with any hardcore rapper and observe how he sounds. Compare him with Methodman/Redman/Wu-Tang Clan, to name a few. Even Obie Trice on "Hennessy" with Pac sounded more convincing as hardcore. I leave the rest to your imagination.

Like I said, Em is good but this over-hype of yours is way too much. And on your reference to the 'sistas' pop side of thangs, what I meant was I was even surprised that they could say Em's not the best. I would have sworn on my dead grandma's grave that they'll rate him the best - due to his pop appeal. But they said NO. They even prefer the hardcore sound of the likes of Nas, Rakim et al. Sauron, the Sistas said NO. And you still don't see a flaw in this your strange affair with Em?

As I said earlier, IMO, those who voted Em are those folks who would also love Pop, R'n'B, Funk, Jazz. Definitely not hardcore rap. And mind you, I'm not saying rap has to be hardcore to be called rap. Else I won't like Kanye, Jay-Z or Em.

Yes na. Jackal=Hannibal=Sauron. And when Em's involved, you know what's the dilly yo. . .

Echeozo:
Eminem is indeed the best. Miss him so much.

Sorry but you'll have to miss him some more. He's a dead man walking _{*died after Marshall Mathers LP*}

@HannibalSauron

Don't even know where to start with you. Even sistas like Chiogo and Tope are telling you the truth 'bout this your Em obsession. Em is good but best rapper alive? No way!

And for me, I won't even go as far as all those greats like Rakim, KRS1, etc. I'm with Eldee who said "alive" here is in the context of "alive and still active". That's why I keep referring to Nas. Just Nas. How can you compare Em to Nas I just don't get it. We all have a right to love our favourite artistes to pieces. But let's always be objective. I can even imagine the two of 'em on a joint. Nas would defeat Em with laid-back flows[i][/i]. He won't even rush, the job would be done easily, quickly and smoothly. 'Member his flows on "Mastermind"? That's the kind of flows I mean.

Like Chiogo, I got no time to write an essay. I got a prescription for your Eminemania though. Go listen to Stan 8 times daily for the next 3 months. If symptoms persist after 6 weeks, consult your doctor.

This Sauron's obsession for Em is ridiculous!

Anyways, just breezed in, I'll be back to post some mo'.

Meanwhile, I'm happy that a lot of peops in here have been checkmating that obsession of his

The most alarming thing is evn his comparison of a legend like Nas with Em - very unbalanced. I feel Em too. But best rapper alive? You gotta be kidding me!

And by the way, someone even said Em ripped Biggie in "Dead Wrong" Even if Biggie rises from the dead right now to repeat those lines of his, I'll still consider them top-draw against Em's. Dead or not, Biggie won.

Eminem best rapper alive? _{*shakes head, hums Femi Kuti's "Truth Don Die" and exits momentarily*}