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Christianity Etc › Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Barnabaseloka(m): 8:46am On Jun 18, 2015

italo:
If a child dies at the age of two, will he go to heaven or hell?

Go back and read what I posted carefully to get the answer.

Christianity Etc › Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Barnabaseloka(m): 12:04am On Jun 18, 2015

italo:
So baptism is not for the remission of sin?

It is just for outward show?

Peter didn't say it the right way?

What about Mark 16:16? Mark also wrote it the wrong way?

What about Ananias asking Paul to be baptized and wash his sins away?

Did the author, Luke write it the wrong way too?

In short, all authors that prove you wrong must have written the verses the wrong way.

Ubenedictus, Muttleylaff, Esere826, Goshen360,

Do you also believe this rubbish above?

Yes baptism is not for the remission of sins. 'Repent' and 'believe' have taken care of the remission of sins. God has already forgiven one's sins and washed one with the blood of Jesus before one goes for baptism. At the point of believing In Jesus, God transforms one into a new creation. This happen inwardly, while baptism physically or visibly shows what took place inwardly in one's life.

Ananias did not say that it was baptism that would wash away Paul's sins. You quoted it halfway, thereby taking away its meaning.
Acts 22:16. And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord. This means that both the baptism and the washing of sins were done calling on the name of the Lord. It is not that baptism will wash away the sins of Paul.
This is the same as in Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass That whoever CALLS on the NAME of the Lord shall be SAVED.
Rom.10:13 For whoever CALLS on the NAME of the Lord shall be SAVED.

Peter said these words in no particular order, yet he understood what he meant. But I said that to me, his words were not correlative with what he said before and after. Peter's heartbeat was for men to believe in Christ and not necessarily how he put these words.

Did Peter say it the right way and were his words correlative with what he said before and after?
He said this before that in Acts 2:38:
Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
And he said this afterwards:
Acts 3:19 REPENT therefore and be CONVERTED, that your sins may be BLOOTED OUT...

Finally, Acts 2:41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized... This shows that they believed before they were baptized. And I said that believing entails one's sins being blotted out or washed away, before baptism which visibly shows what has happened inwardly .

Christianity Etc › Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Barnabaseloka(m): 11:03pm On Jun 17, 2015

MuttleyLaff:
What exactly did I write, that made you jump in both feet first.

Why is it difficult for you to let go even when I have asked for forgiveness. I say again that I am sorry.

Christianity Etc › Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Barnabaseloka(m): 10:58pm On Jun 17, 2015

italo:
1. You are not God that knows what every believer does. Stop assuming.

2. The bible never said those people did not get baptized. You're assuming again.

3. Then why did Ananias have to wash away Paul's sins with baptism?

Note: Matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

4. Mark16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned

Salvation is a process, not a one off. If you believe, but refuse baptism (due to your own fault), you are cutting yourself off. Believing is only a first step which must be followed by baptism for a person to be initiated into the Christian life. Afterwards, the Christian must continue to live according to Jesus' commands to be saved.

5 I see. So whom is St. Paul talking about in the verses below? Those who came after Christ or before Christ?

Rom2:14 When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves. 15 They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness; and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all.

1. Yes I am not God. Read my post very well. The summary of what I wrote is that if believers understand what baptism is all about, they will surely participate in it. And I add that lack of water can be a challenge to some people.

2. Did the bible record that they were baptized? Did you not see those recorded that they got baptized after believing? Who is making assumptions here?

3. Which passage did you get your assumptions that Ananias washed Paul's sins away with baptism? I have not read of such.

4. I wrote that believing has to do with the SPIRITUAL while baptism has to do with the PHYSICAL. The spiritual comes first before the physical. At the point of believing, one has been saved (the sins forgiven and one becomes a new person). All these happen spiritually. The person is baptized to serve as a physical TESTIMONY of what has happened spiritually.

Baptism creates the consciousness of what has taken place in one's life, so that one will be careful in the way one lives. This saves the believer from a lot of sins that the person would have engaged in. But this salvation is different from when the person has not yet believed, which deals with remission or washing away of sins.
Acts 16:30-31
30. And he brought them out and said, Sirs, what MUST I do to BE SAVED. (he had not yet believed)
31. So they said. BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you WILL BE SAVED, you and your household. What were the jailer and the household being saved from? Did the apostles here talk about baptism as part of the salvation.
Acts 3:19 REPENT therefore and be CONVERTED, that your SINS might be BLOTTED OUT... Is salvation from sin based on baptism here?

5. Rom.3:20 Therefore by the DEEDS of the LAW, NO FLESH will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21. But NOW the righteousness of God APART FROM the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law, and the prophets.
22. even the righteousness of God through FAITH in Christ Jesus, in ALL and on ALL who BELIEVE, for there is no diffrence (whether Jews and Gentiles).
23. For ALL (both Jews and Gentiles) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
24. Being JUSTIFIED freely by His grace through the REDEMPTION that is in Christ Jesus.
Therefore, it is ONLY in Christ Jesus that one is REDEEMED and JUSTIFIED today.

Christianity Etc › Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Barnabaseloka(m): 7:36pm On Jun 17, 2015

MuttleyLaff:
Why are you taking panasharp for another man's toothache?
This post which replied to, wasnt for you but was for italo after he asked, saying:
@ Muttleylaff and scholar8200,
Can a child be baptized with the Holy Spirit and Fire?

Barnabaseloka, people get immersed (i.e. baptised) with different and all sort of things
People often get immersed in books at exam times
People immerse themselves in one pastime or the other like history of World War I etc
Likewise God can immerse (i.e. baptise) anyone, as in child, adult or old fogies with the Holy Spirit and Fire

Barnabaseloka, baptism is not an exclusive use only for water baptism, baptism (i.e. immersion) is used for other contexts.

You do know what the Holy Spirit and Fire does?
You do know what anointing is and the essense of anointing?

Jeremiah was consecrated and appointed to be a prophet to the nations before he was born
John the Baptist was filled (i.e. immersed) with the Holy Spirit while still in his mother's womb.
Mary was believed to be between 12-14 years when she was impregnated with Jesus
David was believed to be between 12-16 years when anointed for kingship

Joel's prophecy repeated in Acts 2:17 was deliberately provided to italo

Forgive me for bro. I was only trying to explain what Joel meant in his prophecy b/c of what you wrote. I am deeply sorry for the offence committed.

Christianity Etc › Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Barnabaseloka(m): 6:43pm On Jun 17, 2015

MuttleyLaff:
God is not a respecter of persons
Anybody regardless of sex, age or gender can be baptized with the Holy Spirit and Fire

Acts 2:17
In the last days,' God says,
'I will pour out my Spirit upon all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy.
Your young men will see visions, and your old men will dream dreams

Water baptism is for ONLY those-child or adult- who acknowledges that he is a sinner, repents from his sins and believes in Jesus Christ. it a PERSONAL decision that one takes for himself and not by parents or friends or relatives.
When I say 'child' I mean those that can discern good and evil. Children also believe and accept Jesus at their tender ages so long as they understand what 'repentance' and 'forsaking of sins' are all about.

The 'all people' you quoted in Joel talks about 'all believers' in Christ. Those who have not believed in Christ do not have God's Spirit in them, so they are exempted from the words 'all people.' Yet God's Spirit has come to the world and will live in anyone who believes in Jesus.

Christianity Etc › Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Barnabaseloka(m): 6:05pm On Jun 17, 2015*

italo:
Yes. Baptism entails repentance, accepting Jesus, washing of water and the action of the Holy Spirit.

Baptism is not just pouring water on your head as footballers do on the pitch.

When you ask me questions, I answer them. When I ask you, you dodge them with all sorts of excuses because answering them will reveal the flaws in your belief.

I'm not trapping you. It's just a simple question.

Was Peter mistaken in saying Baptism is for remission of sin?

Or was he correct?

I am not averting your questions. I have to lay foundation first so that my answers will not be contradictory to the scriptures.
Baptism entails repentance in the sense that one must 'repent' before one is 'baptized'. At the point of repentance, the person becomes washed with the blood of Jesus and becomes a new person. This qualifies him to be called a child of God. Know that all these things happen inside the person (spiritually). The person now goes for water baptism to demostrate outwardly that which has happened inwardly. Remember that the 'spiritual' preceeds the 'physical'. So it is not at the point of baptism (physically) that one becoimes saved, but when one repents, and believes in Jesus Christ (spiritually).

Peter was right in what he said. To Peter, he understood what he had said, but to me, his words were not correlative. The word 'repent' has taken care of remission of sins and not baptism. He must have said a lot of words to PERSUADE them to believe (vs 40).

The same Peter before the incident quoted Joel in Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the Lord SHALL BE SAVED. And after the incident Peter also said in Acts 3:19 REPENT therefore and be CONVERTED, that your sins may be BLOTTED OUT (taken away, wiped away), so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. Here Peter did not mention baptism before one's sins are wiped away or before one is saved.

So I will not say that Peter was wrong b/c only Peter understood the words he tried to use to persuade the people. . When we read it literally, it won't give us proper understanding and as such contradicts other scriptural passages. This is why we balance it with other passages in the Scriptures. No two scriptures contradict themselves. Rather all scriptures explain one another. Any misinterpretation is from the inability of humans to strike a balance b/w one passage and another.

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Christianity Etc › Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Barnabaseloka(m): 4:58pm On Jun 17, 2015

italo:
If one has believed, but has not been baptized due to no fault of his, he is saved.

If one has believed in Jesus but has willfully rejected baptism due to his own fault, he has rejected Jesus' word and is not saved.

Which particular believers in Acts?

Do you think that saying something is necessary for salvation means God will not look at your circumstances?

Do you know that some people who have not even believed in Jesus will go to heaven?

It depends on their conscience.

There is no one who has believed that will not want to go through water baptism. Some of them might not have understood its significance. When they do, they will surely go for it.

Those that BELIEVED but were NOT BAPTIZED:
Acts 2:47 praising God and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were SAVED.
Acts 4:4 However, many of those who heard the word BELIEVED; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand.
Acts 5:14 And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women.
Acts 11:21 And the hand of the Lord was with them, and a great number BELIEVED and turned to the Lord.
Acts 13:48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life BELIEVED.
Acts 14:1 Now it happened in Iconium that they went together to the synagogue of the Jews, and so spoke that a great multitude both of the Jews and of the Greeks BELIEVED.
Acts 17:4 And some of them were persuaded, and a great multitude of the devout Greeks, and not a few of the leading women, JOINED Paul and Silas.
12. Therefore many of them BELIEVED, and also not a few of the Greeks, prominent women as well as the men.
34. However, some men joined him and BELIEVED, among them Dionysius, the Areopagite, a woman named Damaris, and others with them. And so on.

Those that believed and were baptised:
Acts 2:41 Then those who gladly RECEIVED the word were BAPTIZED..
Acts 8:12-13
12. But when they BELIEVED Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were BAPTIZED.
13. Then Simon himself also BELIEVED; and when he was BAPTIZED, continued with PHILIP..
37.... And he answered and said, I BELIEVE that Jesus Christ is the Son of God
38. ..... And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he BAPTIZED him.
Acts 9:18.... And he arose and was BAPTIZED.
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be BAPTIZED in the name of Lord... And so on.
Not everyone that BELIEVED was BAPTIZED.

Note: Rom.10:9 that If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you SHALL BE SAVED.

Those that died before jesus paid the price for the sins of the world will be judged by their conscience. But after His death and resurrection, God puts anyone right with Himself through his/her faith in Christ Jesus ONLY.

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Christianity Etc › Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Barnabaseloka(m): 1:56pm On Jun 17, 2015

italo:
Peter said clearly that Baptism is "for remission of sin?"

Was he mistaken?

You want to trap me with a 'yes' or a 'no'. Let us take it gradually to arrive at the best answer. This is b/c other passages are there to explain what Peter meant. Know that my answer will either contradict the scriptures or uphold them.
The first word Peter used was REPENT, before 'BE BAPTIZED'. Do you agree that 'REPENT' here also includes 'turn away from your sins and believe on the Lord Jesus' before baptism?

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Christianity Etc › Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Barnabaseloka(m): 1:38pm On Jun 17, 2015

[quote author=italo post=34859520]Very easy to reconcile.

Matt26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins.

One who rejects baptism has rejected Jesus (and his blood) who commanded us to be baptized./quote]
If one has believed in Christ Jesus but has not been baptised is he saved? And what about the believers in Acts that believed but were not baptised, were they saved?

Christianity Etc › Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Barnabaseloka(m): 1:31pm On Jun 17, 2015

italo:
You mean Peter must have been mistaken in Acts 2:38.

Mistaken as in what? Make your post clearer. And I hope you read my post carefully before commenting?

Christianity Etc › Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Barnabaseloka(m): 12:39pm On Jun 17, 2015

italo:
The question was not whether baptism is a figure or an alphabet sir.

The question was:

Do you believe Acts 2:38 and 22:16 when they say Water Baptism remits sin?

Water baptism does not remit sin but only the blood of Jesus.

In Acts 2:38. Then Peter said to them, Repent, and let every one of you be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
41. Then those who gladly received his word were baptised..

Ordinarily here, one can understand it as water baptism being for the remission of sin, but it is not so. Before we make a conclusion on a passage, we ought to verify it from other passages, if not, we believe error.
Only the blood of Jesus remits (frees one from) sin by 'repenting from sin' and 'believing on Jesus'
Mt.26:28 For this is My blood of the new Covenant, which is shed for many for the REMISSION of sins

Acts 22:16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptised, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord. (KJV)
16. And now, why wait any longer? Get up and be baptised and have your sins washed away by praying to Him. (GB).
It is only by calling upon the name of the Lord, Jesus that makes a man free from sin and not water baptism.
Remember that Paul was reporting what happened to him. For better understanding, let us see the original story.
Acts 9:18. Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptised. Here, Paul had repented and had become a believer prior to his baptism. It was never his baptism that washed his sins away.

If water baptism remits sin, where these believers saved without it?
Acts 4:4 However, many of those who heard the word BELIEVED; and the number of the men came to the about five thousand.
Acts 13:12 Then the proconsul (governor) BELIEVED, when he saw what had been done, being astonished at the teaching of the Lord.
Acts 13:48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed for eternal life BELIEVED.
Acts 16:31 BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be SAVED, you and your household. They believed and got saved from their sins, before their water baptism.
Acts 17:4 And some of them were persuaded: and a great multitude of the devout Greeks; and not a few of the leading women, joined Paul and Silas.
12. Therefore many of them BELIEVED, and also not a few of the Greeks, prominent women as well as men.
34. However some men joined him and BELIEVED.....
Acts 18:8 Then Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, BELIEVED on the Lord with his household. And many of the Corinthians, hearing, BELIEVED, and were BAPTIZED. and so on.

What I want to show here is that not everyone that believed was baptized by the apostles. This is b/c the only things needed for one to be free from sin are 'repenting from sin' and 'believing on the Lord Jesus'. Water baptism is an OUTWARD show of what has happened to one's life INWARDLY.

Christianity Etc › Re: Dont Be Deceived In Church Today Brethren. by Barnabaseloka(m): 9:38am On Jun 16, 2015

manutdrichie:
Are you saying they should steal to run the church?

Do you know that Some workers in the church are been paid salaries?

How will you listen to the word of God in a church that there is no fan or air conditioner?

There are churches wt so many overflows outside d church, speakers n television are needed
My brother to spread the gospel this days is quite expensive

P/s wake up for you are still in the dream land. Why will some workers be paid, leaving out other workers? What about the choristers, the prophets, the children teachers, the ushers, the prayer members, etc.? Is pastoral work now a job that demands payment or salaries? Pastoral work,like other church works, is a gift from God and has to be done freely. If pastors want to be paid, let them go and work (not in the church) to earn their living. Church is not a business venture. This is totally different from members appreciating their pastors through gifts. Both the pastors and the other members need to work to contribute to the growth of the church.

Christianity Etc › Re: Dont Be Deceived In Church Today Brethren. by Barnabaseloka(m): 9:36am On Jun 16, 2015

manutdrichie:
Are you saying they should steal to run the church?

Do you know that Some workers in the church are been paid salaries?

How will you listen to the word of God in a church that there is no fan or air conditioner?

There are churches wt so many overflows outside d church, speakers n television are needed
My brother to spread the gospel this days is quite expensive

Christianity Etc › Re: Once Saved Always Saved by Barnabaseloka(m): 8:43am On Jun 16, 2015

Lateralmaths:
What prize was Paul running for? Definetly not salvation. There is a prize attached to our grace enabled works.

And what disqualification was Paul talking about?

Christianity Etc › Re: Once Saved Always Saved by Barnabaseloka(m): 11:12pm On Jun 15, 2015

Lateralmaths:
Once you know that your are eternally saved and understand the Love of God, you can't sin.

Tell me that you do not in any way commit sin? I do not mean confession of faith.

Christianity Etc › Re: Once Saved Always Saved by Barnabaseloka(m): 11:08pm On Jun 15, 2015*

Lateralmaths:
How can you maintain what you are not qualified to receive...

Explain this

Philippians 2:13 KJV
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Salvation is a gift and God is the one who preserves the saved.

1 John 3:9 KJV
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

What's your definition of sin? going by that definition can you truly say that you don't sin?
1 John 3:9 was speaking of the spirit.

John 3:5-6 KJV
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. [6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Its your regenerated spirit that becomes born again. Your spirit is saved ( eternally secured), your soul is being saved ( through continual renewal of the mind), the body is not yet saved, that is why the body still dies.

God who saves a man has given man what he needs to maintain it- the Holy Spirit and His word.
In Phil.2:13, God works in the man through His Spirit to make the man have the urge or desire to do His will and helps the man to carry it out. Man also has got choice to obey God or not even when such desires come, for God does not force man to obey Him.

1 John 3:7-9
7. Little children, let no one deceive you. He who PRACTICES righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
8. He who sins (continues in sin)-present continuous tense, is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.....
9. Whoever has been born of God does not sin for His seed remains in him, and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. (KJV)
9. None of those who are children of God continues to sin, for God's very nature is in them; and because God is their Father, they cannot continue to sin. (GB)
Read this passage in different bible translations for better understanding.
John wanted us to know that it is not expected of us as children of God to commit sin b/c we have the nature of God in Us. He was trying to tell us the PERFECT or ABSOLUTE will of God for His children.

How do you relate it to these passages from the same author-John?
1 John 2:1,3-6
1. My little children, these things I write to you that you may not sin. And IF (in case, by mistake, unknowingly, but not as a habit) anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the risghteous. Here shows that a child of God can mistakenly sin but not that it is habitual or continuous.
3. Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4. He who says 'I know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar and the truth is not in him.
5. But whoever keeps (continues to do) His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. This means that we know that we are in Jesus when we keep His commands.
6. He who says he abides in Him ought also to walk just as He walked.

That I sin does not mean it is habitual. I still have the human nature in my body. This is why I continually study God's word to get renewed in the mind (which is the control house) in order not to sin, which is the perfect will of God for me.

If one's spirit is eternally saved as you put it, why will God judge people based on their works, even after they are saved?
Rev.22:12 And behold I am coming quickly and My reward is with Me to give to EVERYONE according to HIS WORK.
Rev.20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to THEIR WORKS, by the things which were written in the books.
Mt.7:21 Not everyone who says to Me Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but HE who DOES (obeys, practices) the will (instructions / commandments) of My Father in heaven.
Luke 3:8-9
8. Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance....
9. And even now, the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

Explain these:
Mt.24:13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
What have you to say about Judas Iscariot, Dermas, Ananias and Sapphira and the other people that were once saved. Were they eternally saved?

Christianity Etc › Re: Once Saved Always Saved by Barnabaseloka(m): 6:24pm On Jun 15, 2015

Anyone who has the mindset of 'once saved ever saved' should know that he/she has been deceived. This gives them a foothold to 'play' with sin as if nothing has happened to them.

This is why I always tell people to study the Scriptures and never to swallow any pastor's messages hook, line and sinker. Learn from the Bereans! Only those who live holy will see God!

Christianity Etc › Re: Once Saved Always Saved by Barnabaseloka(m): 1:33pm On Jun 15, 2015

Once saved ever saved is not scriptural. There are two people involved in salvation: God and man. God's work is to save a sinner from the power of sin so that he/she can live righteously before Him. Man's work in salvation is to MAINTAIN the work that God has done in his/her life by living a life that pleases God. Man lives this kind of life not by human efforts but by the Holy Spirit. This does not mean that the Holy Spirit will do the work for the man, but will direct him on what to do.

The Holy Spirit is in the man to make him obey God but it is left for the man to agree or not. The Holy Spirit is a seal that shows we belong to God, but we should not grieve the Holy Spirit by sinning, for Him not to leave us. Being saved from sin is only a preliquisite to becoming a child of God. You have to 'work out' your salvation- you either live a life that pleases God to maintain this salvation or you lose it even when you think you are still in the race.

Those whom Jesus will admit into heaven are not those who have been saved but keep on sinning, with the mindset that they are eternally saved. They are those who have been saved and live their lives pleasing to God.
Rom.6:1-2
1. What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin (go on sinning) that grace may abound?
2. Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?
1 John 3:9 None of those who are children of God continues to sin, for God's very nature is in them; and because God is their Father, they cannot continue to sin. (GB)
The final salvation comes when you hold on to righteous living TILL THE END.

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Christianity Etc › Re: Was Adam Truly The First Man On Earth? by Barnabaseloka(m): 10:08am On Jun 15, 2015

johnydon22:
I have been reading thru the thread only this word scrabble on buttered misrepresentation or maybe willful ignorance on your part caught my attention and so i think i've gat to teach you what science really says on evolution cus for someone who claims to have studied zoology and biolchem, you really are not that cognitive with scientific studies. First the bolded clearly shows you have never read anything on evolution (you are just claiming to) If you ever did you would know evolution never stated man evolved from apes, but apes and man (Both hominidae) evolved from one common ancestor just like Cats, lions, tigers (falidae) evolved from one common ancestor. . SCIENCE101 next time read before you comment on a particular subject.
Truth changes with new facts. Science is study and the more new findings are made the better the truth gets on the subject...That is how real truths are unraveled not just believe what some ancient men scribed down without facts backing them up.
(e.g) We were told there were 9planets in the solar system but with discoveries of new planets, that TRUTH (that we have 9planets) changed and we know to have 8main/8mini planets now. and this truth is not constant because more studies are being carried out and with more discoveries, this truth will improve.
(Truths should be based on discovered facts not mythical beliefs)

Nobody is trying to contradict the word of ur god, the word of ur god did that by going contrary to observed facts…

And that is the difference between beliefs and real study based on observations. . Belief establishes a truth based on myths that must remain unchanged even when evidences goes contrary to it.(its called blind belief) science is clearly the opposite.
Can you prove God's (Osiris) existence by scientific discoveries? Dude science has nothing to do with trying to prove myths.

It cannot be discerned by human wisdom yet you are human, how come you know this? let me help; ASSUMPTIONS.
Yea since god finished creating everything within six days magically, how come the universe is still expanding (formation process) Maybe your god didn't rest then but still creating.

Talking about large number of years for evolutionary trends, let me help you with that cus its obvious you dont know;
It takes millions of years. . . modern homo sapiens according to evolution emerged 200-300years ago, so that duration is still very short for humans to evolve (improve) You'd have to stick around a couple million years from now to get that

Yes and this is the very reason why you so very much try to cling to this obvious myth as truth even when it goes contrary to discoveries and evidences because you don't want your illusions destroyed.

And how come you so much price the genesis story, a jewish reworked copy of an older story, the babylonian Enuma elish as the word of god.
If it is then i seriously find the intellectual capability of that being very unimpressive.
Yea adam popped out magically out of thin air when god said the magic words.
But then again you commit the same blunder;Evolution never asserted man came from apes, am sure i have addressed this above.. You need to read something before bringing it up on a public forum like this

Science: Study, observations, experiments. .
Belief: This is true because this book says so, and this book is true because this same book says it (itself) is true.
Which do you think is more reliable

Learn to know the difference between myth and facts.
[b]The study on man's development is still under heavy study and researches And with this method one can rightly say the truth is not far from being known.

I do not argue with those who do not believe in God. We are on two parallel paths that can never meet.

But I agree with you on what you said about primates splitting to apes and man, according to evolution, not according to God's word. Sorry for the misconstruction. Read about evolution of man and you will discover that it is filled with assumptions, unlike God's word that is very precise and definite. I rest my case on discussing this topic with those that do not believe in God.

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Christianity Etc › Re: Was Adam Truly The First Man On Earth? by Barnabaseloka(m): 8:57pm On Jun 14, 2015*

sylarsquins:
I can cc ur willin to argue till death,follow this link my brother and see the light

www.scienceclarified.com/He-In/Human-Evolution.html

I have read the much I can from this link. Know that I studied Zoology and Biochemistry in school. I have read a lot about man evolving from ape. But, they kept speculating and were not precise. They kept reconstructing their theories in order to prove that their theories were true. Let me tell you that more and more findings are yet to come. They do all these things in order to contradict and counter God's word on creation of man, which has never undergone any reconstruction.

Why can't you prove the existence of God by scientific discoveries? Yet, you subject His word to discoveries. No one needs to subject God's word to scientific discoveries to prove its authenticity, for God's words are spiritually discerned, and cannot be understood through human wisdom.

Do you believe in the creation story that God created all that He needed to create within six days, and rested on the seventh day? If God had not finished His creation work, why would He rest on the seventh day? In evolution, it takes a large number of years for evolution to occur. Yet, man has not evolved to a higher form. People know what the Scriptures say but go after discoveries in order to counter God's word.

I say again that if God's word has a part that is untrue, as a result of scientific discoveries, then God has falsehood in Him, and cannot be trusted. And those that believee in God are of all men most miserable.

The Scriptures tell us how Adam was created, but these scientists could not tell us how man came from ape precisely. All they made in their theories were calculations and speculations and were never definite. Some even talk of 'missing link' in evolution, whereas the word of God was definite about the creation story. It is better to believe God's word as it is, than to believe speculations from the discoveries of men with limited knowledge and understanding.

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Christianity Etc › Re: Dont Be Deceived In Church Today Brethren. by Barnabaseloka(m): 7:31pm On Jun 14, 2015

[b][/b] The problems of MOST pastors of these days are 'idleness' and 'laziness'.

Idleness in the sense of not working to feed themselves and their families, but depend on the church for salaries, payment of children's school fees, fueling of their automobiles, payment of house rents, etc..

Laziness in the sense that they will not want to engage in any work that will fetch them money, but only church work. They claim they are called by God to work in the church only. Are they called more than the early apostles that worked and yet preached the gospel?

They should go and earn their own living as Peter and Paul wrote in the Scriptures. Why will they not coerce their gullible members into parting with their hard-earned money when they have no source of livelihood, aside church?

Christianity Etc › Re: Was Adam Truly The First Man On Earth? by Barnabaseloka(m): 7:12pm On Jun 14, 2015

sylarsquins:
I believe his words without fact coz most have not been countered, if Adam existence hasn't been already countered I probably wud ve believed it. Most other fields shares on light and explanatiion on the matter and that I prefer over the bible's view.

if the word of God on Adam being the first man on earth was countered by archeological discoveries on evolution, does it make God's word on this false? If it makes God's word to be untrue,then:
1. It means that God can lie and cannot be depended completely on.
2. God's word cannot be trusted in that it contains falsehood.
How did the first man and woman evolve from ape and probably what were their names?

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Christianity Etc › Re: Was Adam Truly The First Man On Earth? by Barnabaseloka(m): 6:24pm On Jun 14, 2015

sylarsquins:
I'm not disputing the fact that God is real, or Christians n der beliefs. I jst don't believe in the bible on its idea of the origin of man

if you believe that God is real, without facts, why won't you believe His word without facts? It is better not to believe in God's existence than to believe in His existence and doubt His word, b/c you can't prove it. Can you prove with facts that God exists?

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Christianity Etc › Re: Was Adam Truly The First Man On Earth? by Barnabaseloka(m): 6:11pm On Jun 14, 2015

sylarsquins:
So ur tryna tell me Adam populated d earth, if yes then y we all different n remember Eve was his only woman?.

Sometimes we let religion and the bible deceive us, well am no longer in that category.

I now believe in facts and what I see. So you can quote the bible all you want I still aint coming around anytime soon.

I know that what I quoted caught you heavily. If christians do not quote from the Scriptures, where will they base their belief?

There is no need replying you any longer b/c you can't believe in God who is unseen and push His word aside, in that you want facts before you believe Him. Jesus said Blessed are they that have not seen, yet believe, and you wrote that you will see facts before you believe God, yet a christian. Who is deceiving who, here? I doubt if you are a christian or a free-thinker.

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Christianity Etc › Re: Hell Fire, Adam And Eve Are Not Real, Just Fables - Pope Francis. by Barnabaseloka(m): 5:59pm On Jun 14, 2015

Addietunes:
If the story of Adam and Eve is fable, then Jesus did not exist and we christians are wasting our time believing in Jesus that doesn't exist.
h?[/quote)

Whether u like it or not, what you said here is the Truth. Now its up to u to believe it or not.

What is your post supposed to mean? Know that I believe in Jesus and I believe in God's word that said that Adam and Eve were created by God, not as a fable, but as a reality.

Christianity Etc › Re: Hell Fire, Adam And Eve Are Not Real, Just Fables - Pope Francis. by Barnabaseloka(m): 5:55pm On Jun 14, 2015

emrain:
if Jesus really died for your sins in advance, why are born again Christians still scared of hell?

I don't really understand what you have posted. Can you make it clearer so that I can reply it?

Christianity Etc › Re: Was Adam Truly The First Man On Earth? by Barnabaseloka(m): 5:40pm On Jun 14, 2015

sylarsquins:
I believe in the scientific explantion on the evolution of man because it provides acuurate details and explanation on how Man came into being.

The Christian point of view is base on beliefs, no true facts recorded and besides fossils of the early Man are still being dug out by archaeologist.

Ask youself this one question, what is the proof that Adam was indeed the 1st man on earth?.

The proof is that the word of God said so.
God's word might sound foolish but know that the foolishness of God is wiser than the wisdom of men. 1 Corinth.1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than the wisdom of men.
1 Corinth.2:13-14
13. These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Everything that is written in the Scriptures is by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Only those that are spiritual will understand it, not those who see before believing God's word.
John 20:29 Jesus said to him, Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.

I have to quote from the bible b/c you said that you are a christian. If you were an atheist, I would not have wasted time discussing with you.
The way christians walk with God is that of FAITH (believing what the Scriptures say, even when we have not seen them).

Tell me how you believed in God, who is unseen and do not believe His word on creation b/c it cannot be proven scientifically. Are you not one-sided? If you want to believe science above God's word, do it wholesomely. If you want to believe God's word above science, do it completely.

If the word of God said that the first man was Adam and you do not believe it, then who was the first man that evolved from ape?

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Christianity Etc › Re: Was Adam Truly The First Man On Earth? by Barnabaseloka(m): 5:07pm On Jun 14, 2015

sylarsquins:
My BIG question is, which should we believe and if Truly Adam came 1st from God, how then did he populate the world to what it is right now?.

1. Op, which one do you believe as a christian- God's word or theories propounded by men?
2. If you know of any man that came before Adam, p/s tell us.
3. If man originated from ape, why has man not evolved to a higher form or has evolution stopped?
4. Why was Eve given to Adam, and what is the meaning of 'be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth and subdue it' commanded by God to Adam and Eve? (Gen.1:28)

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Christianity Etc › Re: Hell Fire, Adam And Eve Are Not Real, Just Fables - Pope Francis. by Barnabaseloka(m): 4:34pm On Jun 14, 2015

Be careful, lest ANYONE (whether pope or not) deceives you. The first people created by God were Adam and Eve, and it was through them (though not directly) that Jesus came to the world. If the story of Adam and Eve is fable, then Jesus did not exist and we christians are wasting our time believing in Jesus that doesn't exist.

If hell fire does not exist, why will Jesus tell believers that it were better to go to heaven maimed than to go to hell with one's body intact? Why will the Devil, Death, the world of the dead and those whose names will not be found in the Book of Life be thrown into a place that does not exist (hell fire) on the judgement day?
If hell does not exist, why will Jesus leave His throne in heaven and come to the earth and even died for the sins of the world?

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Where Does The Devil Get His Power From? by Barnabaseloka(m): 4:07pm On Jun 14, 2015

Pr0ton:
If there wasn't a tempter there would be no possibility of sinning. They didn't think about sinning until the tempter came into the scene.

So devil now is a man. Besides if everyone who sins is under the power of the devil, then under whose power was the devil under? If none, then it makes no sense of God to let us under the power of any when we sin.

If Jesus has rescued the earth why does evil still persist? Simple. He never really rescued the earth.

That has always been the trick, postponing the day of reward to the future that never comes.

You haven't still answered me. Why should an ALL-KNOWING God test you before he could know your capability?

So God his the author of evil? And you serve the author of everything evil that happens to you and everyone. Why blame the devil afterall? He'd be a nicer guy than God himself.

A thousand year of barren, suffering, loss, sickness, hardship etc? Now I see how God qualifies to be called Love.

From your post, I can see that you do not believe in God, not to talk of Jesus. I stand to be corrected if I am wrong.

When I talk to people about God, I do not speak from human ideologies and philosophies. I lay hold on 'the Scriptures' which serve as a guide for christians. You will not understand me b/c all I will say will be like fairy-tale to you.

The same way you believe that there are unseen things that exist is the same way christians believe in the unseen God. We believe in God by FAITH and walk with Him by FAITH, not by our reasonings and philosophies.

Therefore, discussing this topic with you is like a christian and a moslem arguing about their faith. We are on different paths and cannot come to any agreement. So, this case is closed!

Christianity Etc › Re: Where Does The Devil Get His Power From? by Barnabaseloka(m): 10:53pm On Jun 13, 2015

johnydon22:
Ok shall we now say that it is valid to back up spiderman with spiderman's comics?
god, God, dog, Dog... changes nothing in the simple noun. . . I think your intuition is correct...I do not believe any god concept. . Ranging from the very first concepts humanity conceived.. Ugarites concepts, sumerian, egyptian mesopotamian and babylonian down to the recent ones.. Zeus, thor, yahweh, allah, horus, krishna, vishnu, dynonsus etc...

From your write-up, I see that this discussion will not go well between us. I don't discuss issues relating to my christian faith on mere ideologies and philosophies of men. I see also that you don't believe in the existence of God. You will not understand me when I back up my points with the Scriptures. Know that the words written in the bible guide christians on their relationship with God and with humans. Therefore this discussion with you will be baseless and not worth going into. The same way you believe in things that you have not seen is the same way christians believe in God, who is unseen. We believe in God with FAITH. I humbly take my leave.

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