₦airaland Forum

italo:
Why should anyone quote from the Bible when you don't know how the bible came about?

Show me where Jesus or the Bible told anyone to write, read or quote the bible?

So, how do people verify the authenticity of your belief? I can't argue with you on this issue. Go with your claims and let me obey that which are written in the bible I have. After questioning its authenticity, you will still go ahead to quote from it to validate your point. Good luck!

italo:
Finally: Rev 6:10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”
Who were they and where they alive?

Gen.4:10 And He said, What have you done? The voice of your brother's blood cries out to Me from the ground.
Does it mean that Abel was not dead here?
My answer to you is dependent on your understanding of a dead person being alive.

[quote author=italo post=34614759]Where Moses and Elijah alive at the transfiguration?

Was Abraham alive in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man?/quote]
Deut.34:5 So Moses, the servant of the Lord dies there in the land f Moab according to the word of the Lord.
2 Kings 2:11 Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire and separated the two of them and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
1 Sam.25:1 Then Samuel died and the Israelites gathered together and lamented for him, and buried him at his home in Ramah....'

1 Sam 28:11,13-15
11. Then the woman said, Whom shall I bring up for you. And he said, Bring up Samuel for me.
13. And the King said to her, Do not be afraid. What do you see? And the woman said to Saul, saying; I saw a spirit ascending out of the earth.
14. So he said to her, What is his form? And she said, An old man is coming up and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed down.
15. Now Samuel said to Saul, Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up...?'
if a medium can bring up the dead Samuel, how much more God. Remember that their coming up was for a reason. After they achieved the purpose they disappeared.

I speak of Moses only b/c he died, unlike Elijah that did not die. That Moses appeared does not mean that he is not dead, awaiting resurrection. People who were children of God before they died will only be raised when Christ comes at the sound of the trumpet.

In the case of Abraham and Lazarus, it was a parable Jesus used to illustrate something.

italo:
No need to beat around the bush.

I said Jesus existed before Mary yet the Angel called Mary his "mother."

You asked me to show you biblical evidence and I showed you:

Matt 2:13 When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. “Get up,” he said, “take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt.

You replied: "take the child is what was said bro."

Who is fooling who?

Is Mary the Mother of Jesus who is God? Yes or no?

Have you seen the verse where the Angel called Mary his mother? Yes or no?

Yes, Mary was the mother of Jesus.

btoks:
This is all made up!!! Early christianity never taught this!! Please let us know when we were asked not to follow the teachings by word or letter.What council decided this,which year? You'll find other teachings laid out clearly in 1 council or another.
The written scriptures could never contain all of christian faith,this is why Jesus left a church(Paul even talks about this in 1Tim3:15 among other scriptures)

Please also read the context of the (All scripture is God breathed. .....)you can't pluck scripture from its Context.

Noted. What you need to do is to quote from your bible, while others compare it from their own bibles, alongside other passages to get balanced understanding of a matter.

Scholar8200:
As regards the Word, see Isaiah 34:16

16 Seek out of the book of the Lord and read: not one of these [details of prophecy] shall fail, none shall want and lack her mate [in fulfillment]. For the mouth [of the Lord] has commanded, and His Spirit has gathered them.

The speaking had to be done by holy vessels 2 Peter 1:21

21 For no prophecy ever originated because some man willed it [to do so—it never came by human impulse], but men spoke from God who were borne along (moved and impelled) by the Holy Spirit.

The compilation (gathering) was also by Divine influence hence the non-inspired (eg Apocrypha) were set aside. Hence the credit goes to the Personality mentioned. Just as God used the heathen king Cyrus to release His people and Caiaphas (in spite of his role in conspiring against Jesus) to prophesy of the vicarious death of Christ, we cannot assume that the teachings or interpretations of the compilers should be swallowed lock, stock and barrel without cross-checking it with the Word. But for people like Luther, Wycliffe(who ws martyred for his good cause!) etc, the bible will still be stashed up away available only to a few who will wrest its content at will.(like Tetzel the monk did)to deceive the masses .

One truth that stares us in the face is that the things written in the Scriptures are true. Our denial to this truth comes when what is explained clearly from it goes contrary to what we have always believed to be true. When such comes, the question now becomes 'who compiled the bible?' This is to shift one's focus from the God's word and begin to talk history. All that is needed is for anyone to quote from the bible he/she has while others compare such quotes with what is written in their own bibles.

italo:
Show me where the Bible says Luke was under the influence of the Holy Spirit?

A lot was written, both good, ordinary and bad.

Compilation involved picking the inspired and removing the uninspired from circulation in the Church and among the people of God.

Was God's Church infallible in doing that or where they error-prone?

Anything done under the guidance of the Holy Spirit is erro-free, but if done by the wisdom of man is error-prone.
If those that wrote them did so with human wisdon, then what we have contain errors and christians cannot boast of having the truth. Anything done of the flesh (human wisdom) is of the flesh and has errors, but anything done of the Spirit is of the Spirit and is error-free.

If you feel that what you have contains error, so be it to you. It also shows how shaky and uncertain you are in your belief in Christ.
1 Corinth 12:3 '.... And no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.
If sb cannot say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit, how much more those that wrote and compiled the Scriptures we have today?

All that is required is that you quote from the bible you have while others quote from the ones they have, then we shall know whether the interpretation is the same while comparing them with other passages.

italo:
Who told you it was Luke that recorded it?

Who told you it was error-free?

Who tried it and found it pure?

Is it only God that is error-free or it is God and men that wrote scriptures?

Please tell me!

Luke 1:1-3
1. Inasmuchas many have taken in hand to set in order a narrative of those things which have been fulfilled among us,
2. just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word, delivered them to us.
3. It seems good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write to you an orderly account, most excellent Theophilus,
4. that you may know the certainty of those things in which you were instructed.
Do you want me to believe that there are mistakes made in the Scriptures?
Ps.12:6 The words of the Lord are pure words. Like silver tried in the furnace of earth, purified seven times.
I will not argue with you on this again. If you believe that there are mistakes in the Scriptures, so be it to you. It also means that what we believe contains mistakes and our faith in Christ has error. For me; God's word is error-free. Any error seen is as a result of misinterpretation.

italo:
Luke 20:38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive

Where Moses and Elijah alive at the transfiguration?
Was Abraham alive in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man?

Finally: Rev 6:10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”

Who were they and where they alive?

Yes in God all believers are alive. Does it mean that they will not die physically? As long as Christ has not come, people will continue to die, physically. But when He appears, believers will never die again. This is b/c those that died before His coming will be raised to life, while those that are alive when He comes will be changed to immortality. Human beings are dust and to dust they will return.

hahn:
Another reason not to believe that horse poo of a story. So basically Mary was straffed by the holy spirit which makes the holy spirit a sinner for committing adultery.

Quite confusing

Where did you get this your story from?
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said to her, The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you, therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God
37. For with God, nothing will be impossible.
How Jesus was implanted in the womb of Mary remains a secret. The scripture did not record that the Holy Spirit had sex with Mary. Let us stop where the word of God stops.

italo:
John 11:26.

It is ignorance that makes you say what you're saying.

You still haven't said if you insist on the fallacy that motherly role is limited to instructing a child.

See how you have misquoted the Scriptures. Whkch Mary was Jesus talking to?

John 3:25-26
25. Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he MAY DIE, he shall live.
26. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?

1 Thes.4:13-14,16-17
13. But I do not want you to be ignorant brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep (died), lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
14. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep (died) in Jesus.
16. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and the DEAD in Christ will rise first.
17. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And that we shall always be with the Lord.

Rev.21:4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying...'
Acts 7:60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, Lord do not charge them with this sin. And when he had said this, he fell asleep (died).
John 21:19 Then He spoke signifying by what death he (Peter) would glorify God. And when He had spoken this, He said to him, Follow Me.

So long as Jesus has not yet come again, people will continue to die. But our hope as believers is that the dead in Christ will rise, never to die again, while those who are alive will be changed into immortality within a twinkle of an eye.

italo:
Ntcanon.org

It is ignorance that makes you say what you're saying.

So St. Luke could teach error?

Luke recorded events as they happened. There was no error in his write-up. The error comes when one misquotes or misinterpretes that which has been written. Only God is error-free, so are the things written in the Scriptures. These words written in the scriptures have been tried and found pure.

italo:
Jesus said Mary is alive.

You limited motherly role to telling a child what to do.

Do you still insist on that fallacy?

Show me where it was stated in the Scriptures whether directly or indirectly that Jesus said so.

italo:
If God's Church can teach error, then the scriptures can be erroneous, since it is God's Church that wrote and compiled it.

You continue to blaspheme!

It is not a church that wrote the Scriptures. Men who wrote the scriptures did so under the influence of the Holy Spirit. After the writing came the compilation. Remember that there were scribes in the olden days who put down events happened in papers. Compilation is gathering what have been written.

italo:
So a mother's role is only in having the child obey her?

Your mother's role in your life is just to tell you what to do?

She doesn't care for you, help you, support you,..your mother doesn't pray for you?

No wonder you are so confused.

I am not confused. The motherly role does not consist only of your mother telling you what to do. The question in the last paragraph also shows motherly role. But my question is: Can you tell me one thing that Mary does today that shows she still plays her motherly role in the life of Jesus? Does she pray for Jesus, or care for Him, or provide for Him? Just provide your answer.

italo:
So the Catholic Church that compiled the Bible is God's Church.

Can God's Church teach error?

There is a difference b/w compilation and writing that which is compiled. You are the one saying that it was the catholic church that compiled the bible. I never said so! All I said was that whether it was compiled by the catholic church or not, it means nothing. What matters is that one obeys that which has been compiled, though comparing scripture with scripture.
Yes God's church can teach error if it misquotes and misinterpretes the Scriptures.

dolphinheart:
I dnt believe the "Mary, mother of God " doctrine/belief/teachings .
I found it contrary to what the bible teaches and an afterthought in the protection of the false doctrine of trinity.

Mary was told who she was going to give birth to in plain, simple, easy to understand, non mysterious terms and she was not told she will give birth to God.

Someone referred to "the woman " in Gen 3:15 as Mary . I asked who " the woman" in the immediate next verse is . Still no answer

Sorry for the mix-up. We are all learning from each other. The more we study the scriptures, the more enlightened we get. Actually, the woman talked about in Gen.3.15 was not Mary, but Eve. So do not get confused at such. Thanks for the enlightenment.

Syncan:
Chai...So Jesus could still be addressed as "Son of David" even generations after David was gone, but Mary's motherhood over Jesus expires, Ok. If you get biblical reference, abeg support am, i don de tire.

One can address Jesus as the son of David with respect to Jesus coming from David's lineage. Apart from lineage, Jesus is not the son of David.
One can address Mary as the mother of Jesus with reference to the birth of Jesus. I said that her motherly role is no more existent, but when talking about the mother of Jesus on earth, you talk of Mary.

italo:
You don't know who compiled it and you are using it as an authority on Christian matters. What if it was compiled by devil worshippers who included some deceptive verses and excluded important ones?


The Catholic Church compiled the Bible in the fourth century. It used the same authority, tradition and spiritual insight it has to do the following:

1. Declare Mary the Mother of God.
2. Decide which books are scripture and which aren't.
3. Declare the Canon of scripture closed.
Etc.

If they erred, and Mary is not the mother of God, then they could have also erred, and maybe Revelations or Luke or Matthew is not scripture.

And perhaps canon of scripture is still open so the Holy spirit could inspire me or you or Pope or Pastor TB Joshua to write scripture.

I say they didn't/cannot err in teachings of faith and morals.

What do you say?

Never will the devil's worshippers compile the bible and go ahead to tell us how to obey God, live godly lives and make heaven at last. A nation divided cannot stand. That I said I have not done research on how the bible was compiled does not mean that the Holy Spirit bears no witness to us that the ones compiled are true. When we go astray, the Holy Spirit makes it clear through the same scompiled scriptures that we have erred. As long as the words I have in the bible i hold give the same understanding /meaning /interpretation to the one you hold, that is the final point.

italo:
You don't know who compiled it and you are using it as an authority on Christian matters. What if it was compiled by devil worshippers who included some deceptive verses and excluded important ones?


The Catholic Church compiled the Bible in the fourth century. It used the same authority, tradition and spiritual insight it has to do the following:

1. Declare Mary the Mother of God.
2. Decide which books are scripture and which aren't.
3. Declare the Canon of scripture closed.
Etc.

If they erred, and Mary is not the mother of God, then they could have also erred, and maybe Revelations or Luke or Matthew is not scripture.

And perhaps canon of scripture is still open so the Holy spirit could inspire me or you or Pope or Pastor TB Joshua to write scripture.

I say they didn't/cannot err in teachings of faith and morals.

What do you say?

Never will the devil worshippers compile the bible and go ahead to tell us to live godly lives and make heaven. A nation that is divided will fall. That I said I have not done research on this does not mean that the Holy Spirit does not bear witness that what are compiled are what we should hold onto. When we go astray, the Holy Spirit makes it clear to us through the same compiled scriptures that we have erred. As long as the words I have in the bible I hold gives the same understanding / meaning / interpretation to the one you hold, that is the final stop.

Syncan:
At bold, hence according to you, calling Mary "blessed" is an important thing, but not more important than doing the will of God (which includes calling Mary blessed). Ok then, thankfully Jesus has something to say about such situations thus:"These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others".Matt. 23:23. Are you doing that?

Luke 11:27-28
27. And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You.
28. But He said, MORE THAN THAT,blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it. (KJV)
28. But Jesus answered, RATHER, how happy are those who hear the word of God and obey it. (GB)
know that it was Mary that said that all the nations shall call her blessed, not the angel (Luke 1:48). People will call her blessed b/c Luke 1:49-55. To call sb 'blessed' does not mean you have to attach it as a title to the name of the person whenever you want to call such name. Yes I call her 'blessed' whenever I want to speak about the birth of Jesus, but not just as a title I attach to the name.

italo:
This is what opposition to God's Catholic Church does to a man. He becomes like the proverbial man whom the gods, when intending to destroy him, first make him deaf.

John 19:25 - Now there stood by the cross of Jesus, his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalen

First you called Jesus a liar by saying his time had come when he said it hadn't come.

Again you call the Holy Spirit a liar.

I did not call the Holy Spirit a liar. I said that Mary's MOTHERLY ROLE ceased when Jesus started His ministry, in that He obeyed ONLY God. Everything Jesus did was as directed by God, through the Holy Spirit, and not by any human being. I did not say that Mary was not His mother.

Syncan:
Chai...Smh. Truth eludes you. Mary Is the mother of Jesus Christ.

Primary school Question paper:

General Paper.

Question: Who is the mother of Fela Kuti

Answer: Mrs funmilayo ransome Kuti


Religious Knowledge.

Question : Who is the mother of Jesus Christ.

Answer: The blessed Virgin Mary

The earlier you acknowledge this truth, the better for you. everything else you write there has nothing to do with this truth.

It is only when a mother still lives that the right question becomes 'Who is the mother of ....?' As long as the mother is dead the right question becomes 'Who was the mother of ....?' Anyway that is by the way. Let me ask you a question. Does Mary still have influence (play motherly role) in the life of Jesus today?

Syncan:
Chai...Smh. Truth eludes you. Mary Is the mother of Jesus Christ.

Primary school Question paper:

General Paper.

Question: Who is the mother of Fela Kuti

Answer: Mrs funmilayo ransome Kuti


Religious Knowledge.

Question : Who is the mother of Jesus Christ.

Answer: The blessed Virgin Mary

The earlier you acknowledge this truth, the better for you. everything else you write there has nothing to do with this truth.

It is only when a mother is still living that sb will ask 'Who is the mother of ....?' As long as the mother is dead, the right question becomes 'Who was the mother of ....?'. Anyway that is by the way. Let me ask you a question. Does Mary still have influence (play motherly role) in the life of Jesus today?

Syncan:
At the bold, thank you, that's all there is to know. At the one in Italics, Your mother is your mother because she bore you on earth. No body has said your mother is your mother, both on earth and wherever next. We are here on earth, Mary bore God on earth, Mary is the mother of God.

It is an undisputed fact that Mary was (not is) the mother of God. The word 'is' means that she still acts as the mother today, which is not true. It has passed so use the word 'was'. When we want to talk about Mary being the mother of Jesus,, with reference to His birth, we have to say 'Mary was the mother of Jesus'. And do not put it as if she still plays any role as the mother in His life today.

Syncan:
Don't just say something because you want to argue, say something to make sense. Why did I make that post and what are you fighting with there?

Sorry if I have offended you. Can you make your post clearer?

dolphinheart:
Statements made so far
Mary, mother of God.
Mary , child of God .
Mary, queen in heaven
Mary , bride in heaven.

Ok , Mary is created by God to be his mother while still his child so that later she can be impregnated by him to be his queen while she is still a bride.

Pidgin : god create you ,come give you belle so you go be god mama, later god mama go be god queen (wife)as god mama don be him bride.

No wonder people who believe this doctrine say its a mystery and hide prove to its traditional source.

So where do you stand?

Syncan:
keep denying truth. It is You that quoted Lk 11:27,28 "Now it occurred that as He was saying these things, a certain woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, Blessed (happy and [l]to be envied) is the womb that bore You and the breasts that You sucked! But He said, Blessed (happy and [m]to be envied) rather are those who hear the Word of God and obey and practice it! What the woman did was call her blessed and You claimed Jesus corrected this woman from exalting Mary. Now I have shown you why you are wrong with several scriptural backing in the post you quoted, Lk1:42,45,48, where the Holy Spirit through different media has said she is and is to be called blessed. Now you are explaining what calling her blessed mean, are you not arguing with yourself? I told you to Think, now am going to add harden not your heart.

Jesus did not contradict the message of the angel. Yes all nations shall call her blessed and that was what the woman did. Jesus was trying to show her the more important thing that believers should do to attract blessings from God, not by calling Mary 'blessed'.

italo:
Where all the apostles teachings/traditions by word of mouth compiled in the Bible?

No. Do you expect everything they said to be compiled? Obey the ones you have with you before talking about going for the complete one. You have got more than enough at your disposal, so make do with them, first.

italo:
Typical protestant hypocrisy.

Just answer the question by saying who compiled the bible or telling us if you don't know who compiled it.

Ok. I don't know b/c I have not really got time to do research on it. Are you satisfied now? Tell me who compiled the bible.

Syncan:
Please take a look at the bold and take a look at the title of the thread, then tell me what you're arguing about.

There is no doubt that Mary was the mother of Jesus. I used the word earthly to show that her motherly role ended here on earth. Mary plays no motherly role on Jesus now. Or are you trying to state otherwise?

italo:
Jesus existed before Mary yet the Angel of the Lord called Mary his MOTHER.

Psalm 45:9 Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir.

12 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.


It is also written that Mary stands at the right of Jesus...and she is queen in heaven.

No one doubts the fact that Mary was the mother of Jesus on earth. Her motherly role ceased when Jesus started His ministry, obeying ONLY God, There is no motherly role that Mary still plays in the life of Jesus today. I hope you remember when the mother of James and John requested Jesus to see to it that her two sons sit at His left and right hands? Jesus clearly stated that it was only the Father that has the authority to decide those that would sit at His left and right hands. They are believers who ran this christian race to the end and not just one person.

I have said it that people should not contradict any other passage of the Scriptures to prove a point. If you quote a passage and it contradicts another passage, then the one who quoted it has misinterpreted it.
First of all read all the passages of Psalm 45 to have an understanding of what David said.
No passage in the bible ever support the claim whether indirectly or directly that the queen illustrated here is Mary.

Rev.12 talked about the birth of Jesus and any description given her was to show the glory of God upon her life b/c of the Child (Jesus) whom she had in her womb. Here the word 'woman' was used and not 'queen' and from the Scriptures we understand that the woman was Mary. If you read the whole chapter, you will discover that the Devil (through Herod) wanted to kill Jesus when He was born but the parents took Him to Egypt. So, Rev.12 tells us what surrounded the birth of Jesus and how God rescued Him from being killed by satan.

Have you not read that 'Flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom of God'? Have you not read that it is appointed unto man once to die and after that judgement? Also tell me that Mary did not die and hence awaiting the ressurection day and that she is seated with Jesus in heaven. No passage in the Scriptures ever interpreted, whether clearly or not, that Mary is the queen of heaven. Mary as a human being believed in Jesus and became a child of God. She died just like every other human being and waiting for the trumpet to sound to rise to life.

Rev.20:11-15
11.Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
12. And I saw the dead, small and great standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13. The sea gave up the dead, who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged each one according to his works.
14. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15. And ANYONE (no exception) not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
1 Thes.4:16-17
16. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them, in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the lLord.
1 Corinth.15:27. For He (God) has put ALL THINGS under His (Jesus) feet. But when He says all things are put under Him, it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted.
Jesus controls all things (humans, angels and the world at large without any exception). Only God is excepted.

Therefore when you want to lay claim to something in the Scriptures, compare it with other passages to get a better understanding of such passage/s.