₦airaland Forum

kingoflag:
No matter how you want to slice and dice this like the beef above, Beaf, YOU ARE WRONG ON THIS ONE.

Corruption is why the Food Inspector (that you suddenly desire in your life) will turn a blind eye to the health disaster staring him in the face after pocketing a couple Dollars.

This is empty.
There is corruption everywhere in the World, but their systems work. There is corruption in Jamaica, but they will not eat food slaughtered in the manner that is common in Nigeria, talkless of the way it is sold (in their markets, every piece of meat has a stamp that proves its healthy).
The market I depicted shows chaos in all its gory details. It is everywhere in Nigeria.

Nigeria is chaotic, because it has no foundation, so anything goes. No matter how you patch and plaster such a system, it will still spring a leak.
We need to either hammer out an enduring framework of existence based on or keep screaming into the wind. That is what Jamaica has that we lack and it shows in everything from the way they have found a way to write their patois as a language totally distinct off English, to the way they have made reggae known Worldwide. Population? 3 million!

naijababe:
Semantics Beaf! What exactly is the job of those in office in providing the said framework? Isn't there someone whose's job it is to provide it?

Before you resort to another long winded manipulation of the queen's language, let me use an analogy.

I own a 3-bedroom house in the UK with an extensive garden, I decide to build a conservatory in the garden. I'm required to submit and get an approval of a planning permission from my local council before I even engage workmen let alone start to build.

My planning permission fails to get the required approval and I build my conservatory anyway; an inspector from the councils shows up and I give him a 200 year old matured bottle of  fine Scottish whisky and he turns a blind eye. My neighbour does the same and the multiplier effect takes over. Before anyone could say Jack Robinson, my entire neighbourhood turns overnight into a slum like your pictures above,  tell me would that be chaos or corruption?

What do you think makes it difficult for you to give "a 200 year old matured bottle of  fine Scottish whisky" to any official in the UK, I'm sure they love the good life too? The answer is simple, a framework of laws and requirements to fulfill them that a based on the enduring philosophy of what makes one British and have a stake in the success of the system. That is their bulwark against corruption and an anything goes society as obtains in Nigeria. Everything in the UK has its place and its turn, because it has been properly thought out, philosophised and hammered out into a theory of belonging, productivity and Britishness, beginning with the Domesday Book in 1086.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesday_Book

Similar to the British, the founding fathers of America also hammered out an enduring framework of existence, with the central philosophies of freedom, liberty and the American Dream.

If on the other hand, I were to ask you what makes you a Nigerian, what would your answer be? lol!
We must all sit down and discuss a way forward, we need to expound enduring principles, rights and requirements of Nigerianness, otherwise we are on a spiral of exponentially increasing entropy to nowhere.

[quote author=Xavier. link=topic=845451.msg9958899#msg9958899 date=1326488142]Beaf, d right word is not 'Chaos' but 'impunity'. It is our culture of impunity that has gotten into ds mess. It is wat's fueling corruption.[/quote]Impunity is a good word indeed.

sheyguy:
lawlessness is fuelled by corruption of security and judiciary system, and by extension those who monitor and maintain order at all level including the govt.

I am afraid that Nigeria problems have nothing to do with the security or judicial systems. We totally lack a framework of existence, therefore anything goes in Nigeria and thats the very definition of chaos.

As an example, when last did you hear of food inspectors in Nigeria? Does that have anything to do with security or judicial systems or is it that our existence is so chaotic that in some cases, we are barely human and more animal?
It is the same thing that exhibits itself in every strata of our society (even NL).
Here are two sets of pics; one is from a rural area in Jamaica (a country thats much poorer than us), the other is from an urban area in Nigeria. Compare:

[size=13pt]Nigerian pic set[/size]

https://i37.tinypic.com/2i9qdqg.jpg

https://i36.tinypic.com/vpcnc8.jpg


[size=13pt]Jamaican pic set[/size]

https://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20101018/lead/images/AbattoirD20101013RM.jpg
Health worker checks the meat in the slaughterhouse.

https://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20101022/news/images/AbattoirA20101013RM.jpg
Butcher cuts the meat

naijababe:
I amazed that the type of chaos we see in Nigeria has an order to it, since only the rich and powerful benefit from it.

I'm glad you mentioned true federalism, so tell me what is your man going to do about it?

Buying and selling food above a sewers is an example of chaos by the poor. Nigeria simply has no framework of existence and that is chaos.

https://www.m0rgan.com/Africa/Nigeria/Market06.jpg

https://www.m0rgan.com/Africa/Nigeria/Abeok_mkt.jpg

[quote author=ndu_chucks link=topic=845451.msg9958847#msg9958847 date=1326487574]Beaf, stop the foolishness. Is the chaos not caused by corruption? olodo[/quote]How can chaos be caused by corruption? Corruption is caused by lawlessness and lawlessness is caused by a lack of order, which is chaos. Comprende?
Fighting corruption without battling its root cause is a waste of time.

Fix the Nigerian system and you would have fixed corruption, underdevelopment and the various fuckries around us that have sadly become normal to the average Nigerian; from loudspeakers in churches to soldiers beating people up in the streets, pen theft etc.

^
You are just arguing foolishly. Please, stop trying to derail the thread with lies about villages that have no names in other states.

Area boys in Lagos are making life miserable for people in Jakande Estate area. It is an example of the aimlessness of the protest that they are holding residents hostage, beating people up, causing kids to go hungry and attempting to set people alight.

Ain't they the ones that sabotage the refineries? Thats why they cannot tackle corruption.

This is a post from another thread. I believe it is worthy of discussion, especially in the current time.

Like I have said, Nigeria's problem is chaos, not corruption.

Asking for anything less than a total restructuring of the system will be a waste of time. Anything that thrives on chaos will seize advantage, from "roger" demanding police to market women selling food above open sewers, from armed robbers to thieving politicians. Chaos is what allows a rich man to slap a poorer man in public for scratching his car.
More than anything, it is chaos that breeds the openings for corruption to take root, therefore what Nigeria needs is organisation. It is important to note that organisation can only arise from deliberate planning, it will never arise from spur of the moment protests against corruption. The effects of such protests will always be negated by the passage of time and the snatching of opportunities by desperate men in a chaotic system. Our chaotic national structure is the problem, corruption is merely a symptom of the more fundamental disease.

The continuous cycle of poorly targetted protest and defeat by time (because the system remains unchanged) only yields the sort of disengagement, apathy and despondency that is found in the average Nigerian. It will only get worse, because we keep expending our energies going after the symptoms of chaos, rather than attacking the roots of our chaotic system.

What we need is a struggle for true federalism. Any other battle is a foolish waste of time that will attain meaningless short term goals; the defeat of these short term goals will in turn sap our energy for future battles, and the fact that the root of the problem has been left intact will only reschedule the battle for another day. A cycle of useless struggles.

True federalism, a sense of belonging for all Nigerians, regional and cultural autonomies, enforceable state laws, productive states and LG's etc and we are talking.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-845380.0.html

[quote author=Yeske! link=topic=845380.msg9958649#msg9958649 date=1326485671]Beaf at it again anyway, we all know it's all about corruption if not nobody would have seen any reason to protest or strike. If the refineries were working, electricity 24/7, good roads, selfless leaders, security, employment, MINIMAL corruption etc were all optimal and i was told to buy fuel at 200naira, why i go send?[/quote]I am most interested in how you hope to end corruption and get the refineries working, electricity 24/7, good roads, selfless leaders, security, employment etc.

@Odunnu
Thanks a lot. Alot of people try to cover up their intellectual inadequacies with agbero behaviour; the statement I made cannot be comprehended by an agbero, so their reactions are expected.

@topic
Like I have said, Nigeria's problem is chaos, not corruption.

Asking for anything less than a total restructuring of the system will be a waste of time. Anything that thrives on chaos will seize advantage, from "roger" demanding police to market women selling food above open sewers, from armed robbers to thieving politicians. Chaos is what allows a rich man to slap a poorer man in public for scratching his car.
More than anything, it is chaos that breeds the openings for corruption to take root, therefore what Nigeria needs is organisation. It is important to note that organisation can only arise from deliberate planning, it will never arise from spur of the moment protests against corruption. The effects of such protests will always be negated by the passage of time and the snatching of opportunities by desperate men in a chaotic system. Our chaotic national structure is the problem, corruption is merely a symptom of the more fundamental disease.

The continuous cycle of poorly targetted protest and defeat by time (because the system remains unchanged) only yields the sort of disengagement, apathy and despondency that is found in the average Nigerian. It will only get worse, because we keep expending our energies going after the symptoms of chaos, rather than attacking the roots of our chaotic system.

What we need is a struggle for true federalism. Any other battle is a foolish waste of time that will attain meaningless short term goals; the defeat of these short term goals will in turn sap our energy for future battles, and the fact that the root of the problem has been left intact will only reschedule the battle for another day. A cycle of useless struggles.

True federalism, a sense of belonging for all Nigerians, regional and cultural autonomies, enforceable state laws, productive states and LG's etc and we are talking.

^
Nigeria's problem is not corruption. It is chaos.
Asking for anything less than a restructuring will be a waste of time.

Beafs's Law:
Any movement without an enduring philosophical basis will fall into confusion and collapse.

There were much more fundamental issues than just the subsidy removal to protest. A good summary of the Nigerian problem is captured in the next few words:

Nigeria is run on chaos.

The protests were a genuine opportunity to bring order to our chaotic system, rather is quickly dissolved into a jamboree to meet new lovers at Falomo and in other parts like Jakande Estate, it was a harrowing experience with area boys subjecting the people to a hostage situation that peaked with the attempted setting alight of a journalist.
Chaos breeds chaos.

What we should been fighting for was to bring order to the chaotic soup. True federalism!

Beaf: True federalism is an architecture that guarantees cultural and fiscal autonomies for all federating units. This is generally done in return for military protection, standards setting, judicial oversight etc.
The federating units are self sustaining and manage their resources (mineral, human, geographic etc) and pay taxes to the center. Out of those taxes, the federal govt may extend help to needy federating units.

With the above, it is plain to see why there will be no fuel subsidies under true federalsim. Even of greater impact, will be the fact that no federating unit will be able to approach Abuja with a monthly beggars bowl for its upkeep; true federalism is an arrangement that enforces healthy rivalry, rapid growth and competition. It challenges the creativity in us and makes that blossom.

It is true federalism that has made the United States of America what it is today. They have a federal structure based on the philosophy of freedom, liberty and the "American Dream" of self-fulfiment.
Contrast that with Nigeria that has a zero guiding philosophy or ideology, a country that revels in chaos. For example, what does a capitalist country gain with chaotic policies like fuel subsidies for consumption, something that is only practised by crackpot nations? What sort of country subsidises consumption, if not a confused and chaotic place? We might as well subsidise toilet roll and fanta, while developed poil producers subsidise Research and Development, defense, science and tech, education, the incubation of high tech industries, manufacturing etc.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-838107.96.html

[size=14pt]UPDATE 4-Nigeria unions suspend strikes in fuel dispute[/size]

Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:34pm EST

* Unions, president to resume talks on Saturday

* Strikes, protests, rallies supended for weekend

* Oil workers threaten to cut output from Sunday (Adds Eurasia Group analysis)

By Joe Brock and Camillus Eboh

ABUJA, Jan 13 (Reuters) - Nigerian unions suspended strikes and protests over rising petrol prices for the weekend on Friday while talks take place between union leaders and government, but warned of more industrial action if there was no resolution.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/13/nigeria-strike-idUSL6E8CD3UQ20120113

^
Hmm!
I thought you were the fake Beaf when you posted the full pic.
I can't even talk well now, cos I made the mistake of looking at your profile; now I'm veeeeeeery confused!

alj harem:
yes that is what i am implying so what lies ?

you see you like a COW now, were you not the one supporting fuel subsidy removal now you know the government is corrupt.

One question genius

What would a [size=18pt]corrupt[/size] government do with 1.3 trillion naira ?

Mumu people I mean you beaf and all other goons and tribalsitic mofos here that [size=14pt]cannot even justify what you support.[/size]

We can, but its not meant to be wasted on your kind, because:

1. you just don't have the brains
2. you tell lies like water
3. you are bigotted
4. you employ evil sentimental methods
5. and you are quite foolish

Nobody wants to waste a message on rocks and stones. Take your failure manfully and waka!

BlackPikiN:
[flash=400,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLtAMwFVmT0[/flash]







See how he dey talk wetin him no fit do!

Gaddem!
See WWIII inside one taxi! #Occupy the taxi!

https://i.imgur.com/UPBvj.gif

emiye:
Did you mean to ask that question ? you mean there are no area boys in those places?

Social outcast (a.k.a area boys, almajiri, ND militants e.t.c ) abound in the 36 states of the federation.

Don't ask any of your PA to respond next time, their IQ can not be more than 40, They are simply trolls better ignored,
I believe your IQ is roughly twice as much.

You are very funny indeed and stup!d too. ND militants took up arms because of the filth, polution and death levied on them to feed your raz arse. Even with the free money from the FG, all that state has done is produce area boys that talk like evil spirits, because the braindead like you do not ask questions or realise that they aren't mere worms, but actually have rights.

It is the failure of of your state government and only God knows if you yourself, are an area boy.

Area boys

Map of Lagos (Lagos Island in lower middle).
Area boys (also known as Agberos)[1] are loosely organized gangs of street children and teenagers, composed mostly of males (but with a few females), who roam the streets of Lagos, Nigeria.[2] They extort money from passers-by, sell illegal drugs, act as informal security guards, and perform other "odd jobs" in return for compensation.[3] The groups are based in Lagos Island, a Local Government Area in Lagos and the most urbanised part of Nigeria.[4]


[edit] Demographics

Area boys, who are largely Yoruba, have existed in the city since the early 1980s. However, under various names, types of Area Boys have been traced back to the 1920s.[5] In 2007, the total number of area boys in Lagos was estimated at over 35,000 by a member of the Lagos State Judiciary;[6] as of 1996, the number of them operating on Lagos Island alone was placed around 1,000.[4] A 1996 study of area boys on Lagos Island by Abubakar Momoh showed that only 26.4% of area boys were from Lagos State; Ogun State (22.6%), Kwara State (14.2%), and Oyo State (14.1%) all produced more than 10% of respondents. Most were between twelve and thirty-five years old.[7]

Asked whether they were "proud" to be area boys, 18% of respondents said yes, while 75% said no (7% did not respond).[8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_boys

[size=14pt]I go chop you raw!!![/size]

[img]http://woahnigeria.files./2011/06/area-boy-1.png[/img]

Pratter:
When will Nigerian looters be brought to justice. That should be included in the Enough is Enough demand! There can be no stance taken against corruption without bringing corrupt individuals to justice! Nigeria needs a revolution of epic magnitude because all of this noise about fuel is patch-patch work.

The people who have caused all of our suffering continue strolling about in peace, sevurity, air conditioned cars with OUR money!!! Bring them all to justice. Every miistry shoulg be incesigated. All contracts investigated, where has all the money from years and years of subsidy and contract awards gone? Recovering our money from the looters and thieves will go a long way to setting Nigeria on the right path.

Thank you!
Any protest needs to have an underlying basis that is enduring, not a mere sentimental appeal to people to reject the subsidy removal.
There are very major things we should be protesting in Nigeria. The most pressing one being, why not a single one of our 36 states can stand on its feet 51 years after independence. Maybe we need to sell them as land for cattle rearing.

alj harem:
[size=18pt]19 Nigerians did not die for 120 naira per liter. They marched for justice, anti-corruption, transparency, N65 per Ltr & Fairness[/size]

Make una de match.
The whole thing is ending in a whimper, because there was never really any philosophy behind it. It was just, "we want N65 per litre." Even after being told the circumstances of the nation.

Accept your failure and move on.

damola1:
GEJ dey chop gucci rice, 1B per year, ?, Fighting for that by strike won't work, how do we fix that?, any suggestions?

The Presidency has announced that to be among the false rumours being circulated by haters. I suggest anybody find the true state of things for themselves by utilising their FOI rights.

blackweaver:
when the government proves that they can be trusted, and the salaries and allowances of senators and legislators and the president are slashed to reasonable levels (i.e. non of them earning more than their western counterparts), and the government has dealt with the cabal and the refineries are working reasonably well, then we can talk about subsidy removal else at the end of the day the cabal will keep making more money and the masses will bear the whole brunt

These are the things we should have been demonstrating for, not trying to take the country backwards and enslave ourselves and our kids for N65 per litre.
There is no reason on Earth why the NASS should be costing the nation approximately the same as the subsidy. GEJ can't force them to reduce their salaries (cos its an independent arm of govt), but we can.

^
--Beaf ignores an unrepentant fool--

emiye:
Those area boys are the products of the failed government at the centre. The policy sommersault by the irresponsible PDP government has continued to churn out social outcasts like hot bread from a bakery.

I wont be surprise if there are unemployed graduates in the mob, or possibly school drop outs (not because they are not brilliant) but the PDP policies at the centre has strengthened poverty in Nigeria, with 92.4% living on less than  $2/day

How silly can things get? I wonder why there are no area boys in Ekiti, Rivers or Delta?
It is daft not to blame the area boy syndrome on failures of govt at local and state levels. Maybe you think state and LG govts are there for mere decoration and to share free money.

Make I hear word jare!

The failed political system in Lagos, produced the area boy phenomenon; the same failed politics produced your daft #occupy that needed area boys to force people to off the roads, rob them and almost set some alight in a visionless protest to nowhere.

All hail ACN, party of thugs and failed protests.

^
Go suck your arse. 9 posts or not, hypocrisy is like a siren or smelly piece of shiit that attracts flies.

^
Dude, people can see through you. 9 posts or not, they can see a bitter, petty and hate filled soul from afar.

percipi1:
I still don't understand why you guys take Beaf seriously. Either the guy is a clown or he probably does not live in Nigeria.

The gospel truth is simple: without basic infrastructure and social amenities, Nigerians need subsidy on the price of PMS to survive in a very harsh economy like Nigeria.

However, this subsidy should be worked out in such a way that corrupt minded officials and importers will not hijack it again. However, |I do not see how that will happen except through a bloody revolution.

The present crop of leaders in Nigeria share the same trait with Jonathan Goodluck-NONE OF THEM HAVE ENOUGH FORESIGHT TO APPREHEND THE FUTURE

Dude, learn how a federal govt structure works. Your state and local govt are not for decoration; they are meant to be financing the FG, not the other way round.
Go and demonstrate against your phucked state and phucked LG and always have it in mind that if Nigeria did not have oil (or totally lacked any mineral resources like Japan), then your governor and LG would have had to deliver, not so? They wouldn't have been going to Abuja to collect sand to feed their people.

You need to apply commonsense, not cry for subsidies when you are not disabled.

caseymoney:
What makes them selfish? There's no continuity in Nigeria Govt. The only thing that has been consistent about the military leader and PDP led democratic Govt is Fuel subsidy removal. There's nothing like subsidy but an avenue for them to enrich their pocket. If the four refineries are working, cost of local production shouldn't be more than N35.

What brought about subsidy? Corruption, since the Abacha Govt then realize it's more profitable to import exported Crude Oil. In fact, I could even remember some bad oil imported then, knocked engines. PDP have been there since 1999, what is GEJ going to do that his Mentor and Political father hasn't done. The same Ngozi promised all these nonsense during OBJ.

I support Subsidy removal and my approach is as follows.

1. Borrow money and fix all four refineries.

2. Refine locally and there would be no need for subsidy.

3. Alternatively, Govt should fully deregulate the downstream sector and not in the business of fixing prices.

They talk about foreign investors, do they think a reasonable company will invest in an unrest country. Abeg, Jonah fight corruption and insecurity in the nation and everything will follow suit

Until you remove the subsidy, everything you mentioned above will be a wild dream. The very same NLC that led you on a missionless protest will be the ones to sabotage the refineries they are in charge of, so that brown envelopes can keep flowing.
You have to uproot the entire system or remain churning water without movement. It is just like curing the police of corruption, an impossible task.

The real problem is Nigerians.

madprof:
Ultimately, we are probably better off without subsidy. The method of implementation however is very important. I suggest it is removed in stages over a period of time. Meanwhile the govt should first of all show good faith by providing amenities such as stable power supply and a robust, modern rail transport system. Then Nigerians would have little need for the petrol anyway.

The prostests would have been better received if they were about removing the subsidy in stages, I too support that. However, those who wish us to continue our enslavement to the former importation regime are just selfish people who couldn't give a toss if the country ground to a jarring halt tomorrow, so long as their bellies are full.

Nothing good in life comes easy, sweat, pain and planning breed success, not wastefully subsidising fuel for the whole of West Africa. More than that, there is limited time available before we crash finally and resources are finite; so the removal has to be done with urgency.
The old fuel import regime must end for Nigeria to survive, grow and develop.

Widespread fury at the removal of the subsidies, which President Jonathan has likened to a "cancer" that eats more than $6bn (£3.9bn) in government funding annually, has set the stage for a bitter showdown. In the impoverished Jakonde neighbourhood of Lagos, gangs of youths prevented residents from leaving their houses.

"It has been a terrible day, a really messed up day," said taxi driver Segun Alabi. "People have been trying to get to the market for even some small food, or to make a little money, but the area boys have said they are striking on our behalf and stopped any cars from leaving. Children are hungry at home."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/11/nigeria-islamists-claims-war-christians

Why?

Even in far away UK, the Guardian reported the beating and robbing of innocent Lagosians by area boys around the Jakande Estate area.

[size=14pt]Police save journalist from being set ablaze by hoodlums[/size]
On January 12, 2012 · In News
By Olasunkanmi Akoni

LAGOS — Save for the timely intervention of policemen on patrol, a journalist, Mr Charles Akpan with Inspiration 32.5 FM would have been set ablaze, today, when a group of armed hoodlums intercepted him on his way to work.

Akpan, who narrated his ordeal to Vanguard, said the incident happened in the early hours of yesterday, at Jakande Estate, Lekki area of Lagos, when he ran into one of the many road blocks mounted by hoodlums under the guise of being fuel subsidy protesters.

He said: “The experience was indeed horrible. I thank God for sparing my life. I commend the timely intervention of the police, who saved me from their stronghold. I met several other road blocks from my residence in Ajah. The road blocks mounted were about 100 metres away from each other. At one of the points, the hoodlums, who would not listen to me asked what I was doing on the road when I was supposed to be at home, if I was not a government’s agent.

“At that point, they demanded for my identity card when I told them I was journalist working for their interest as a patriotic Nigerian. But they later let me off after extorting me. I was not lucky enough when I got to Jakande Estate, Lekki Bus-stop. The boys there were violent and ordered me to step out of the car as they wouldn’t listen to my plea.

“One of them, suspected to be the leader of the group asked for a jar of petrol to be used to set me alight but at that point, the police patrol team raced to the scene and rescued me from their hands. I quickly sped off to the office in shock.”

http://www.vanguardngr.com/2012/01/police-save-journalist-from-being-set-ablaze-by-hoodlums/

dustydee:
Beaf my friend just told me transport fare in Abuja to and from work will cost her N60000 per month, how will she raise that amount? is that not an invitation to steal?

We must press the govt to pump much more money into transportation than they are suggestiong with SURE. Also, it would be great if govt enforces transport fares by flooding the market with their own vehicles or fixing the zero interest loans to transport fare agreements.

It is difficult and painful in the short term, but would pan out better for all of us in the end.

That said, I feel for your friend and every other Nigerian facing difficulty.