₦airaland Forum

adsonstone: David is NOT God, He is a man.

Jesus, Son of Man.
Jesus, Son of God.

Calling David God is blasphemy as we both know.

Mary, mother of Jesus, (mother of God according to Rcc)

All women that do God's will, mother of Jesus (according to Jesus Himself).
I wonder why the RCC has refused to accept them as 'mother of God' too....infact, worse of all, they are called 'CROWD'.



the problem is that you have taken another mediator with the sole mediator that exist between God and Man.

bolded above, i concur! because in a desperate bid to justify the Trinity , and the catholic as a church in their bid to fashion a mediator between God and man outside Gods command, and since they equal God with jesus, mary has to rise to the challenge and position of jesus as "salvator"

@italo

italo: Just like you refuse to call David "God." After all, Jesus is the Son of God -the Son of David.

Tell us what exactly is the problem with the below.

why do catholics reverence Mary as their “Supreme Pontiff.” because [size=14pt]It is a documented fact that the late Pope John Paul II relied more on Mary for salvation than on Jesus.[/size]

Pope John Paul made more than 40 pilgrimages to her shrines at Lourdes and Fatima. He wrote in his Apostolic Letter of Oct. 16, 2002, the following words:

[size=14pt]“I entrust this Apostolic Letter to the loving hands of the Virgin Mary, prostrating myself in spirit before her image in the splendid Shrine built for her by Blessed Bartolo Longo, the apostle of the Rosary.”
[/size]


Embroidered inside all of Pope John Paul’s robes was the phrase[/i], “Totus tuus sum Maria,” which means, “Mary, I am all yours.”

The Catholic Rosary concludes:
“HAIL, HOLY QUEEN, Mother of Mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve; to thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary!”

It is of interest when we ponder Roman Catholicism’s popular “15 Promises of Mary.” Among them we find:

“The soul which recommends itself to me [Mary] by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish...I shall deliver from purgatory those who have been devoted to the Rosary. Those who are faithful to recite the Rosary shall…at the moment of death…participate in the merits of the Saints in Paradise.”

It is obvious, then, that not only did the late pope worship Mary and place his eternal security in her, but it is equally obvious that “the faithful” follow in his footsteps. When Catholics turn from faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation to trusting Mary and the Rosary, as did Pope John Paul II, they place their eternal salvation in jeopardy why? because for Jesus Himself declared;

"No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6)


If Jesus spoke the truth, and He did, there is zero security and salvation in Mary and the Rosary. In the pope’s “Prayer For The Marian Year,” he prayed:

[size=14pt]“Sustain us, O Virgin Mary, on our journey of faith and obtain for us the grace of eternal salvation.”[/size]

do you see this above as normal? im just asking

hisblud: Hi berny, jonah did not change his words when the destruction of ninevah never occured. But can it be said of jw on 1914, read this

lets keep to the topic, jonah vs russel(man to man) dont switch to jonah vs jw in a case where the topic demands jonah vs russel, so did russel change his word concerning 1914 to another date as the year of christ invicible presence? show me a credible evidence here, a full paragraph, not just quotes

[quote author=hisblud]

beautiful.. this i believe refers to WHAT God has specifically stated in his word ... but for someone to come out dogmatically to claim a "year" as being the fulfilment of God's word, i dont buy that

what do you mean by dogmatic? then jonah is dogmatic when he specifically mention "40 days more nineveh shall be overthrown" yet it did not happen, that is how your defination of dogmatic goes . you know that i have ask you severally for more than six time now, did jonah added "conditions" that could make God change his plan? you cant answer that till now!

you seem to hate this people jehovahs witnesses with passion, but your evidences to prove them wrong was faulty and not carrying any weight

... for me am not scoffing at the return of Yahshua, rather am expecting Him to return

how are you waiting for his return? you think that it is to wait as in a bus stop waiting for a bus? you cant wait for jesus like that, no human got the power over what can happen to himself or herself, but rather you wait by doing everything possible to put your life in shape to please God, so that even if death come at any time you have a good conscience...

but i will scoff at anyone that claims Yahshua has already come as russel and co are saying...stating also that His reign started in 1914 and that the gentile rulership has ended then... not me berny... but if you give in to his failed 1914 prediction above and anyone for that matter... that is your cup of tea not for me, man, no matter how you take scriptures to justify it!

carry go! you have a personal beef at these jehovahs witnesses, thats not my concern my concern is to look into claims you brought up and see wheather they are not biblical or not

hisblud]@berny

Hi berny, long time… sorry for not replying to your posts this was because we had a network blackout… now back to the discussion at hand… before we forget what we are discussing, I want to remind us what we are discussing… The aim of this thread is to raise the issue that russel had predicted that the coming of Christ is definitely coming in 1914 which he stated that it was “set on stone” thus a definitive occurrence that must occur and nothing will change it

the same parralleled with jonah 3:4 ...."fourty days nineveh shall be destroyed"

did russel say "occurrence that must occur and nothing will change it" or you added that clause?

And you are here trying to use jonah’s prophecy to rubber stamp his prediction as “a correct event” that merely changed because God in His wisdom and discretion changed the date, to which am still in disagreement

did jonah stated "in his prophecy/message" that GOD will change "on a particular condition" you have not provided even one! quote me a verse to that effect!

Mind you, the jw did not state similar prophecy like jonah rather they emphasis that Jesus presence already started before that time(1874), his rulership and the end of gentile rulership also

.

you talk of jw, as an organisation, and pronto! you switch to isolating russell, lets treat russel vs jonah as you put the topic ok? im meticoulous, note that!

Let me quote yooguz

yooguys quote was removed from a context of a paragraph which means that the true meaning of that sentences removed can be better understood if YOU hisblud provide a pdf of whole page that contain youguys quote, please do that now on fairness basis!

Now to what you posted…

Are you saying “YES” that whether "a word" or "phrase" or even " a sentence" must be used EXPLICITLY before the central idea is derived from the message?

so what you want to see is yes! with your case not even fit or lack elements that can suggest the use of a so called explicit use of warning? you dont put words in my mouth, sorry! nothing suggests warning in jonahs case and you have failed again to prove it!

Furthermore, reading through your post, you seem to suggest that for the idea to be “warning”, there must of necessity be the following , ..only if, ....provided that,....but if… thus providing the reader with the ability to respond to the message… and going by your submission, is this provable on all the prophecy in the bible… ? and if NO, why?

we are treating a particular case of jonah vs russel, and you are yet to prove what could suggest warning in his message to the people, have you agreed that you have failed to prove warning in jonahs case before jumping to "all prophecy in the bible"

Another thing, berny, you seem to sort of a give credence to russel’s prediction of 1914…

not only russel, but the
"students of prophecies of the assemblies of God church" which i quoted their predictions in 1914 and 1935 etc why dont you note that?

ok lets say that his prediction from his diligent bible study pointed him to 1914 and he claims that the invincible appearance of Jesus has occurred

have you read mathew 24:3? about signs of jesus return?

As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

jesus replied,

Mathew 24:7-8

7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

signs of jesus return may also be his invicible presence, which the assemblies of God students of prophecy noted that

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfulfilled_Christian_religious_predictions#Assemblies_of_God_Church

During World War I, 1914–1918 The Weekly Evangel, an official publication of the Assemblies of God, carried this prediction:

"We are not yet in the Armageddon struggle proper, but at its commencement, and it may be."..........

who is believed to be an arch angel, the rulership of Christ started then and the ending of the gentile lordship, will you believe that such a one was speaking for God?

quote the whole page from the book where your quote was removed to satisfy that it was not out of context case, and what is your standard of judging that one is not from God?

can you answer this; in luke 21, jesus said "this generation will not pass before all these things happen" yet generations upon generations came and gone, hisblud do you still believe jesus as a true prophet of God? with respect to that verse? i need your answer

so far ......what has been established on this thread is that, God can chose to delay the fuffilment of a doom prophecy does not make the reader of the prophecy a false prophet or unreliable,

Rather the focus should be how individuals can better their lives with God and be found spotless and doing what God approves

concerning jesus coming, i think russel and others who read the revelation about jesus presence in 1914 and even further can only be classified as readers of prophecies, and not inspirational prophets as some are putting it, and have only comply with what i thought was in habbakuk below;

God ordered a doom prediction for an appointed time, not an unchanged fix time, but can still be subject to delay for reasons God himself deem fit.

Habakkuk 2:2-3
GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

2 Then the Lord answered me,
“Write the vision.
Make it clear on tablets
so that anyone can read it quickly.
3 The vision [b]will still happen at the appointed time[/b].
It hurries toward its goal.
It won’t be a lie.
If it’s delayed, wait for it.
It will certainly happen.
It won’t be late.

note the clause, prophecy of God can be delayed......but true servant of God should wait for it.


2 Peter 3:8,14-17

8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless;

15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,

16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked

i think apart from russel, there are other readers who also read and point to 1914, among others on the next link we have what ..students of prophecy..of the assemblies of God church said about 1914;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfulfilled_Christian_religious_predictions#Assemblies_of_God_Church

During World War I, 1914–1918 The Weekly Evangel, an official publication of the Assemblies of God, carried this prediction:

"We are not yet in the Armageddon struggle proper, but at its commencement, and it may be, if [size=14pt]students of prophecy[/size] read the signs aright, that Christ will come before the present war closes, and before Armageddon...The war preliminary to Armageddon, it seems, has commenced.

After the prophecy of first wwar failed 1914-1918, then, Assemblies of God see more prophecies in 1934 1935 2nd w/war.,

if russel and others which i dont limit my choice who predicts and can cut across christianity stimulate and read prophecies and suggest a a particular year, but did not state a day and time, which only God knows, i think the emphasis should be for us do what peter said above,

17 "You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked"

the wicked mentioned here are the faultfinders who will not even wait and see maybe the prophecy readers are at fault or prophecy of God is subject to delay!

lastly, if the end had come in 1914 or earlier, most of us here would not have exist! are we greatfull to God because of that? or do we see the delay as an advantage to come closer to God? some people have killed their concience and their aim is to make people agnostic like theirself by undully watering down the zeal to serve God, but since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked"

there is one imminent end, closer to every one ...death, then judgement...and you shall be judge according to all your deeds, are you taking advantage of Gods delay?

The quote ....."fourty days nineveh shall be destroyed", does not carry warning words like ..only if, ....provided that,....but if, etc. that could suggest warning even outside the use of explicit word warning so, explicit usage of warning is not the issue here but elements that can suggest warning in the quote were NOT present!

the OP seems to be hard pressed on this! having answered his questions.

jesus was reffered as servant in the old testament book of isaiah, before he came to the the earth

isaiah 42;1-6
42 “Behold! My Servant whom I uphold,
My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him;He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles

isaiah 42:6

6 “I, the Lord, have called You in righteousness,

'have called you', is a past tence here, that one is very sure

...... (a)and will hold Your hand; (b)I will keep You and give (c)You as a covenant to the people


God was here assuring jesus his chief servant there in heaven before giving him out as a covenant as revealed to prophet isaiah


jesus as an angel

4 good bibles that says jesus is an angel,(angel of covenant) in (malachi 3:1,.

(1)dual rheims, ........And presently the Lord, whom you seek, and the angel of the testament, whom you desire, shall come to his temple. Behold he cometh, saith the Lord of hosts

(2)darby bible,.........and the Lord whom ye seek will suddenly come to his temple, and the Angel of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah of hosts

(3)wyclyff ............Lo! I shall send mine angel, and he shall make ready the way before my face; and anon the Lord, whom ye seek, shall come to his holy temple, and the angel of the testament, whom ye will. Lo! he cometh, saith the Lord of hosts

(4)Amplified bible) ...................................and the Angel of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he cometh, saith lord of hosts


you will ask, that why is john the baptist a human reffered to as angel, this is because;

Angel is a task not a different form/nature but apply to both human and spirit sons of God
the word itself Angel was derived from latin, which means messenger, it was'nt limiting this to only spirit beign but also human

yes of course, john is 1, human by default,and/messenger,angel, but spirit sons of God,also known as angels/messenger are spirits who falls under the 2, supernatural spirit/form by default, the same invincible form with God was known.

then we have 2 categories of forms, 1, visible 2,invicible

there is no other default form called angels form outside this 2 above

hisblud: @berny another thing must a "word" be used EXPLICITLY before the central idea is derived from the message?

@hisblud,

we are talking about warning which was not the central idea as you put it, but was forced on the issue, warning could be "a word" or "phrase" or even " a sentence" and it must be contained in a quoted message like that of jonah ..."40 days, nineveh shall be overthrown"

provided that you are reffering to jonahs message to the people of nineveh, yes! to your question, because it was "in quote", direct and contain a precise figure....."40 days, nineveh shall be overthrown"jonah 3:4

thats my answer

hisblud: @berny another thing must a "word" be used EXPLICITLY before the central idea is derived from the message?

i have given you other options apart from the direct use of the word ..warning!

show the verse where jonah added alternative things that the people should do in his message to avert the doom


establish what suggests warning in jonah's message to the people,and quote the verse and not dictionary, Im interested in the verse that suggest jonah's warning expecially ..in his message that he delivered...to the nineveh.

the phrase in fourty days nineveh shall be destroyed, does not carry warning words like ..only if, ....provided that,....but if, etc. that could suggest warning

if these alternatives were not contained in jonah's message to the people then it means that you are forcing warning on the case, if you read the book of jonah very well, jonahs messages to the people was in quote,and easy to grasp without diverting the real meaning.

so in summary, God chose not to tell jonah to add alternative measure that ninevites can take for him to change his mind, but the people reasoned on their own to put on sackcloth, not jonah's directive.

@Hisblud

Hisblud; did the WHOLE WORLD repent in 1914 to cause God to postpone the coming of Christ?

lets see why the whole world need not repent but reasonable and genuine repentance of even ten people can cause God to delay his execution

read;

Genesis 18:22-33

22 The other men turned and headed toward Sodom, but the Lord remained with Abraham. 23 Abraham approached him and said, “Will you sweep away both the righteous and the wicked?

24 Suppose you find fifty righteous people living there in the city—will you still sweep it away and not spare it for their sakes? 25 Surely you wouldn’t do such a thing, destroying the righteous along with the wicked. Why, you would be treating the righteous and the wicked exactly the same! Surely you wouldn’t do that! Should not the Judge of all the earth do what is right?”

26 And the Lord replied, “If I find fifty righteous people in Sodom, I will spare the entire city for their sake.

27 Then Abraham spoke again. “Since I have begun, let me speak further to my Lord, even though I am but dust and ashes. 28 Suppose there are only forty-five righteous people rather than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five?”

And the Lord said, “I will not destroy it if I find forty-five righteous people there.”

29 Then Abraham pressed his request further. “Suppose there are only forty?”

And the Lord replied, “I will not destroy it for the sake of the forty.”

30 “Please don’t be angry, my Lord,” Abraham pleaded. “Let me speak—suppose only thirty righteous people are found?”

And the Lord replied, “I will not destroy it if I find thirty.”

31 Then Abraham said, “Since I have dared to speak to the Lord, let me continue—suppose there are only twenty?”

And the Lord replied, “Then I will not destroy it for the sake of the twenty.”

32 Finally, Abraham said, “Lord, please don’t be angry with me if I speak one more time.Suppose only ten are found there?”

And the Lord replied, “Then I will not destroy it for the sake of the ten.”

33 When the Lord had finished his conversation with Abraham, he went on his way, and Abraham returned to his tent


from 50 to 45 to 30 to 20 to 10, God said he will hold back his execution, he will not destroy wicked with righteous as low as ten

can we labelled this...flip,flop,flip,flop etc without taking advantage of the delay?

apostle peter predicts something in the last days concerning the issue of the last days that touch me personally, and that is just what people do now, instead of taking the advantage of Gods delay, they scoff at those who are doing their best to read the events and keep alert

read the prophecy peter predicts about last days;

2 peter 3-4;

3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.

hisblud]

Are u interested in the EXPLICIT word "WARNING" appearing or you are just trying to play with words.According to encarta dictionary, warning is sign of something bad coming: a threat or a sign that something bad is going to happen. So are you saying that this is not warning IMPLICITLY even if its literarily and EXPLICITLY not stated as "WARNING". another thing must a "word" be used EXPLICITLY before the central idea is derived from the message?

you are yet to give evidence of warning citing the verse where jonah's message contain anythig that suggest warning, yes encarta dictionary talk about something about something bad going to happen,

but what we have here in jonah 3:4 is a fixed day of forty days a doom shall occur on the city, it has already been decided, and jonah did not add any alternative words in his message to the city that suggest warning, and that is what im waiting for....

ok, let me put it this way, show the verse where jonah added alternative things that the people should do in his message to avert the doom


lets say explicit word "warning" was not mentioned,you know that, and yet you force warning on his message before you establish what suggests warning, Im interested in the verse that suggest jonah's warning expecially ..in his message that he delivered...to the nineveh, i dont play with words, i need facts.

jonah 3:4 is in black and white...40 days mentioned destroyed the suggestion of warning... because the phrase in fourty days nineveh shall be destroyed, does not carry warning words like ..only if, ....provided that,....but if, etc. that could suggest warning, and jonah 3:10..God relented from what he had earlier scheme to happen

...in 40 days, note that he wasnt talking about ...repenting within 40 days, other bible translations says ...40 days more...which shows that days pass by and is clicking considering the fact that you ask me a question like this (bolded):

its the prophecy of Nahum, of ninevah's destruction after they people returned to evil ways, 100 years AFTER the incidence of the the warning of Jonah. Ninevah was actually destroyed in 612BC. 100years is not 40days.

Good,(1)prophecy of God to jonah,nineveh shall be destroyed in 40days flip.... (2)God relent without telling jonah to add alternative warning to his message what they should do but God relent on his own ..flop.. again (3)prophecy of the same God to Nahum flip... and to the same people ninevah with the history of doom that was averted! and prophet jonah was made to look like a false prophet then that he prefer to die in humiliation jonah 4:1-5

question, why did God delayed the destruction of nineveh till later time, not in Nahum's lifetime, using these prophets the way he chose? i need answer please

Point of correction, this prophecy of destruction was not carried out during the time of those people that repented after they heard the warning of Jonah. Why because it was stated in "40 DAYS" exaclty niniviah would be overthrown

the same bad lineages and generations of people in a city called nineveh, you cant separate that, the same God giving message of doom more than once on a city, using different prophets, and the prophets are to bear the brunt of eventual change or further delay of Gods mind

Furthermore, it was stated that Jonah waited for 40days to see the destruction but becos they heeded the warning, after the literary 40days, nothing happened.

the question is, did jonah added an alternative route that the city can follow to gain Gods favour? show me in his message, if no then that explain jonah's fear on why he had to wait in anoyance, God did not tell jonah to tell the city that they should repent, ok?

Another question for you berny, all ninevah repented,

what do you mean by repent? so when someone put on a sackcloth he had repented? well those that truly repented were few, and those who are pretending by putting on sackcloth were noticed, God reasoned later that they are liars and pretenders

let me show you

Nahum 3:1


King James Bible
Woe to the bloody city! it is all full of lies and robbery; the prey departeth not;

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Woe to the city of blood, totally deceitful, full of plunder, never without prey

did the WHOLE WORLD repent in 1914 to cause God to postpone the coming of Christ?

The whole world does not need to repent! read genesis 18, God can change his mind as often as possible if new repentant ones emerge!

putting on sackcloth does not mean true repentance that comes from the heart.

those who from 1914 till date have repented of their sin are noticed by God himself, can you deny that? do you think it was only jehovahs witnesses that read that marked 1914 as a significant year?, among others are the Assemblies of God church, you need to know that now that most of us are not troubled as we are sitting in convieniece and discussing, it wasnt like that during the heat of the first world war that shook the whole earth in 1914-1918

read and search these, so that you dont single out a particular denomination

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfulfilled_Christian_religious_predictions#Assemblies_of_God_Church

[color=#006600]During World War I, 1914–1918 The Weekly Evangel, an official publication of the Assemblies of God, carried this prediction:

"We are not yet in the Armageddon struggle proper, but at its commencement, and it may be, if [size=14pt]students of prophecy[/size] read the signs aright, that Christ will come before the present war closes, and before Armageddon...The war preliminary to Armageddon, it seems, has commenced.

After the prophecy of first wwar failed 1914-1918, then, Assemblies of God see more prophecies in 1934 1935 2nd w/war.,

The Assemblies of God [i]students of prophecies, are they true or false prophets? if yes, on what ground do you judge them as false

How do you see this situation when God pronounce doom mentioning 40 days(flip), he relents(flop), again God said "nineveh will be laid waste"(flip) we are talking about ...ever knowing God.. who knows the future and should have destroyed the city once and for all. why does he delay and change pronouncement?

Flip-flop-flip




FLIP.... forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!

Jonah 3:3-4
3 So Jonah arose and went to Nineveh, according to the word of the Lord. Now Nineveh was an exceedingly great city, a three-day journey[a] in extent. 4 And Jonah began to enter the city on the first day’s walk. Then he cried out and said, “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!”


FLOP......God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it

Jonah 3:10
10 Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it

FLIP...‘Nineveh is laid waste!

Nahum 3:1-7

5 “Behold, I am against you,” says the Lord of hosts;
“I will lift your skirts over your face,
I will show the nations your unclothedness,
And the kingdoms your shame.
6 I will cast abominable filth upon you,
Make you vile,
And make you a spectacle.
7 It shall come to pass that all who look upon you
Will flee from you, and say,
‘Nineveh is laid waste!
Who will bemoan her?’
Where shall I seek comforters for you?”


any answer?

@hisblud


i was busy throughout last week and was not even aware of the new thread, then lets go

I ask you a question, on page of the other thread, you did not answer your reply came with a question that im going to answer, though im not a jw! but you have forced 'warning' on jonah's message to the people, and it seems that your failure or refusal to prove the alledged warning 'in jonah's message to the ninevites' by quoting a verse shows that you have no knowledge of the fuffilment of God's prophecies,

this is the question again, let me pick it one after another;

did jonah added warning to his message to the nineveh? if yes, quote the verse here please

this is jonah's message;

jonah 3:4

4 And Jonah began to enter the city on the first day’s walk. Then he cried out and said, “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!”

a fixed time of 'forty days' was announced, and so nowhere in jonah's message to the ninevites contain warning whatsoever, but a certain doom! hanged on the city

and to further prove that it was God himself who relent on what he had earlier determined to do


read Jonah 3:10
New King James Version

10 Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it

note the bold, 'He did not do it' this shows that it was not a warning but a determined doom on a fixed date like a time bomb has just been averted

you can see why in jonah 4:1-5

jonah said he prefer to die, because of the shame, he would not have tried to run away in the first place to tarshish had it been that it was only a mere warning.

so, this case provides answer to your own question below;

hisblud: thanks, good that you aint a jw, let me ask you a simple question. Say you were in 1894 and a prediction came that in 1914, troubles will end becos Yahshua will return. Now some people repented and some did not, will the repentance of people cause God Who knows the day and hour to delay/postpone the return of Yahshua becos some of them repented?

if the repentance of the ninevites could cause God to relent of bringing calamities after 40 days to the city, why not to those who are repenting of their sin now, which is the reason of jesus coming to die in the first place john 3:16....God brought his only beggotten son ....whosoever believeth in him shall not perish...

the delay that may come from any Gods prophecies is an advantage for sinners to change their ways and repent

now that i have answer you,

can you answer my question by quoting a verse that;

did jonah added warning to his message to the nineveh? if yes, quote the verse here please

valchris10

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JMAN05: hisblud doesnt like the truth cos truth is not in him. when he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his disposition.

that guy should be handled like Jesus handled the pharisees.

lets wait and see, lm a neutral person here, i give everyone benefit of doubt, im expecting his answer

@hisblud


i was busy throughout last week

I ask you a question, on page 2, you did not answer, though im not a jw! but you have forced 'warning' on jonah's message to the people, and it seems that your failure or refusal to prove the alledged warning 'in jonah's message to the ninevites' by quoting a verse shows that you have no knowledge of the fuffilment of God's prophecies,

this is the question again, let me pick it one after another;

did jonah added warning to his message to the nineveh? if yes, quote the verse here please

this is jonah's message;

jonah 3:4

4 And Jonah began to enter the city on the first day’s walk. Then he cried out and said, “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!”

a fixed time of 'forty days' was announced, and so nowhere in jonah's message to the ninevites contain warning whatsoever, but a certain doom! hanged on the city

and to further prove that it was God himself who relent on what he had earlier determined to do


read Jonah 3:10
New King James Version

10 Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it

note the bold, 'He did not do it' this shows that it was not a warning but a determined doom on a fixed date like a time bomb has just been averted

you can see why in jonah 4:1-5

jonah said he prefer to die, because of the shame, he would not have tried to run away in the first place to tarshish had it been that it was only a mere warning.

so, this case provides answer to your own question below;

hisblud: thanks, good that you aint a jw, let me ask you a simple question. Say you were in 1894 and a prediction came that in 1914, troubles will end becos Yahshua will return. Now some people repented and some did not, will the repentance of people cause God Who knows the day and hour to delay/postpone the return of Yahshua becos some of them repented?

if the repentance of the ninevites could cause God to relent of bringing calamities after 40 days to the city, why not to those who are repenting of their sin now, which is the reason of jesus coming to die in the first place john 3:16....God brought his only beggotten son ....whosoever believeth in him shall not perish...

the delay that may come from any Gods prophecies is an advantage for sinners to change their ways and repent

now that i have answer you,

can you answer my question by quoting a verse that;

did jonah added warning to his message to the nineveh? if yes, quote the verse here please

@hisblud

im not a jw! but you have forced 'warning' on jonah's issue,

You people are mixing prediction and warning up.


Warning have an element of repentance attached to it while a prediction must occur whether their is repentance or not.

a, where is Gods message of warning to jonah in the bible that suggest warning? quote the verse here please, dont fail to do that!

b, did jonah added warning to his message to the nineveh? if yes, quote the verse here please

c, did nineveh return to the same bad ways after God decides to change his mind? and was the prophecy of destruction fufilled on ninevites later on? answer


im waiting for your reply

TroGunn: My post was long to explain things clearly, with supporting Bible verses - useful to those who appreciate clear bible truths.

To repeat, In terms of hierarchy in heaven, Jehovah/Yahweh is highest, Christ follows and then angels. Christ and angels obey Jehovah - Christ is no doubt still God's messenger - he does what God commands him to do.

And here are the verses again:


John 12:49 "I don't speak on my own authority. The Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to say it".

Malachi 3:1 ""Behold, I send my messenger, and he will prepare the way before me; and the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to his temple; and the [b/ messenger of the covenant, [/b] whom you desire, behold, he comes!" says Yahweh of Armies". WEB

Read the Bible and derive your beliefs from there, like JWs. When you hold preconceived ideas of dubious origin and try to twist the Bible to conform, you end up with problems and confusion, like the trinity farce you are desperately and unsuccessfully trying to seek biblical backing for.

you are wasting your time with true2God, he is a determined individual that habitually does not contribute or build a topic, he only try to wind you like a table clock, and after all your effort to explain things, he will just confine your effort to the dustbin until you are tired, know how to treat your pearl....who the cap fit let him wear...save your effort, put them where they belong. im not your member though!

hisblud: jman had agreede they are failed prediction. Confusion. Flip flop

@hisblud



you have no point,

jonah in the bible predicts fall of nineveh forty days to his proclamation, but it never happen;

Jonah 3:4
4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.

Because of scoffers, here is what jonah said to the lord when the timing change

Jonah 4:4

4 But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he became angry. 2 So he prayed to the Lord, and said, “Ah, Lord, was not this what I said when I was still in my country? Therefore I fled previously to Tarshish; for I know that You are a gracious and merciful God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, One who relents from doing harm. 3 Therefore now, O Lord, please take my life from me, for it is better for me to die than to live!”

to scoffers, jonah was a false prophet, that he wish to die

my question is; can the timing of God's prophecy change?

answer

@ JMAN05

Thank you very much, I never read all that cos I hate it when people leave the main issue to discuss trifles.

You see another lie? I dont know whether that is what she learns in her church. When did I answer Barrister pls?

bolded above said it all, the guy hates jehovahs witnesses with passion such that he/she forgets himself in any thread that says negative things about them

what i follow is the truth, im not a jw, but i want constructive argument without bias with sound evidences, and you can see that he is not ready to learn, i was told by my brother how to deal with such people, as you can see until i came on board he was talking about 1914, but when i faced him with his church stand on the issue and even the student of prophecy of the assemblies of God failed prophecies, he/she said they are wrong, but cant he/she just say they are false prophet considering Deuteronomy 18:21-22

italo, im still waiting for response

youguys, where are you?

@true2God

answer this please;


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfulfilled_Christian_religious_predictions#Assemblies_of_God_Church

During World War I, 1914–1918 The Weekly Evangel, an official publication of the Assemblies of God, carried this prediction:

"We are not yet in the Armageddon struggle proper, but at its commencement, and it may be, if [size=14pt]students of prophecy[/size] read the signs aright, that Christ will come before the present war closes, and before Armageddon...The war preliminary to Armageddon, it seems, has commenced.

After the prophecy of first wwar failed 1914-1918, then, Assemblies of God's light gets brigther and brigther, they see more prophecies in 1934 1935.,

The Assemblies of God students of prophecy, are they true or false prophets, considering Deuteronomy 18:21-22?

@true2god

who is satan? is satan an angel? do you believe that satan was an angel? then please show me where it was written in the bible directly that satan is an angel, im not talking about metaphorial usage

@JMAN05

do you noticed that True2God after quoting your post below;

JMAN05:

What do you people believe about the beasts of revelation. Tell me what they all stand for. eg Rev. 13

Your trinity has already been trashed here. You ve not responded to all my responses to your comment on that. eg the question I asked on hebrew.

he then accused you of prevoiusly using another username ID Barrister, but now he believed that you are matured, read it;

true2god: U need to create a thread on AG doctrines that are false. This thread is for the JW to answer questions relating their weird teachings.

Similar thread had been created to 'test' the validity of some of catholic doctines. I wont engage u in unnecessary argument, we've done it before wen u were using ur seccond ID, BARRISTER. So u need not xpect me to continue in that path.

One thing i admire u now is that u r more mature, unlike before.

On the issue of the trinity, go back to the early page of the discssion, u will see my stance on the person of the holy spirit. We christians (not JW), belief in the person of the holy spirit, as the bible teaches, and not an active force, electricity, battery, non-living thing (as being taught by the JW). So the person of the holy spirit form part of the core argument of Trinity which im not ready to back to now.

Read the first three pages of the thread, open ur bible, close ur watchtower magazine, u will understand wat im talking about.

JMAN05 can you see how confused true2God is right now! check this on page 15.

Oga true2God so JMAN05 is also having an ID BARRISTER? thats so serious true2God you are confused

@italo

did russel teach that jesus will be sighted phisically in 1914? or he had always meant invisible ever before 1914? show evidences you have,

or if you dont mean that then we move to next allegation

waiting

youguys get ready please

true2god: U dnt have point my guy. Assemblies of God is not knwn for predictions. The official false doctrine of JW till date still remains the 1914 assumption of christ enthronment as heavenly king. Even till date ur JW oficially belive christ invisible return of 1914.

Mind u, this thread is to expose the deceit in watchtower. Check the title pls and see who is derailing. You can as well open a thread to reveal the falsehood in AG doctrines.

How on earth do you deny obvious facts committed by your church Assemblies_of_God_Church, you said that they are not known for predictions?

so who are the Assemblies_of_God_Church students of prophecy? dont say that you are not aware that they are specially chosen bonafide members of your church mainly with the oversight of prediction, see bolded and confirm


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfulfilled_Christian_religious_predictions#Assemblies_of_God_Church

During World War I, 1914–1918 The Weekly Evangel, an official publication of the Assemblies of God, carried this prediction:

"We are not yet in the Armageddon struggle proper, but at its commencement, and it may be, if [size=14pt]students of prophecy read the signs aright, that Christ will come before the present war closes, and before Armageddon[/size]...The war preliminary to Armageddon, it seems, has commenced.

After the prophecy of first wwar failed 1914-1918, then, Assemblies of God's light gets brigther and brigther, they see more prophecies in 1934 1935.,

"Other editions of Weekly Evangel of April 10, 1917 edition, page 3 speculated that the end would come no later than 1934 1935. it failed again

May 13, 1916 pp 6–9 prophecy future date after previous ones failed

are you now aware that Assemblies of God too were listed among failed prophecies unfufiled, you saw in on the wikipedia so why are you denying? ok you dont want to use the word 'false prophet' for your leaders no be so,

lets leave that for a other objective readers. but my point is beign made, im not defending jws, but what you accuse someone of you are also guilty

be aware now

true2god: @ BERNIMORE (OR BARRISTER), below is AG official doctrine.
The Bible - The entire Bible (Old and New Testaments) is the divinely
inspired truth delivered by God. The
Bible is the ultimate example of how to
live one's life of faith. The Godhead - God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ), and God the Holy
Spirit, are three distinct persons,
existing in a unified form as one body.
God is the creator and sustainer of the
universe. He is revealed in the Bible. He
is eternal, with no beginning and no end. Jesus Christ was the human
incarnation of God the Father. He was
born of the virgin Mary. He lived a sinless
life and died by crucifixion for the sins of the world. He was resurrected from
the dead on the third day and exalted to
heaven with God. The Holy Spirit is the
essence of God which moves among the
people, touching believers here on
Earth. The Church - The church is the Body of Christ here on Earth. Its mission is to
spread the word of God to all the
nations. The Future - In the near future Jesus Christ will return to claim his bride, the church. This event is called the Rapture of the Church. Current and past
Christians will be taken to live with
Christ forever. Later Christ will return to
earth in the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. Holy Communion - Believers commemorate Christ's Last Supper here
on Earth. The bread and wine are
symbolic representations of the body
and blood of Jesus, offered in sacrifice
for the sins of the world. Read more
about Communion. Water Baptism - Believers take part in water baptism by complete immersion.
This is a public showing of one's
acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and
Savior. Read more about Baptism. 1. We believe the Scriptures are inspired
by God. 2. We believe there is One True God
revealed in three persons. 3. We believe in the deity of the Lord
Jesus Christ. 4. We believe man willingly fell into sin –
ushering in evil and death, both
physical and spiritual, into the world. 5. We believe every person can be
restored to fellowship with God
through accepting Christ's offer of
forgiveness and salvation. 6. We believe in Water Baptism by immersion after salvation, and Holy Communion as a symbolic remembrance of Christ's suffering and
death for our salvation. 7. We believe the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is a special experience following salvation that empowers believers for
witnessing and effective service. 8. We believe the initial evidence of the
Baptism in the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues as experienced on the Day of Pentecost. 9. We believe sanctification initially
occurs at Salvation, but is also a progressive lifelong process. 10. We believe the church has a mission to
seek and save all who are lost in sin. 11. We believe a divinely called and
biblically ordained leadership ministry
serves the church. 12. We believe divine healing of the sick
is a privilege for Christians today and
is provided for in Christ's atonement. 13. We believe in the Blessed Hope - when
Jesus raptures his church prior to his
return to Earth. 14. We believe in the millennial reign of
Christ when Jesus returns with his
saints at his second coming and
begins his rule over earth for 1,000
years. 15. We believe in a final judgment for
those who have rejected Christ. 16. We believe in a new heavens and a
new earth that Christ is preparing for
all people who have accepted Him.
christianity.about.com/od/assembliesofgod/a/assemblybeliefs.htm

dont derail italo's thread, i only chose to expose your church's assemblies of God false predictions not once or twice etc, and that since those prophecies which was heralded using your official journal ''the weekly evangel'' failed, that your church is guilty of falsely prophecying and a false prophet, simple

so it is not wheather they are wrong or not, your church basis is of fraudulent false prophets

italo: First, you have to show me where I said the bold.

Here's my post which you quoted below:

italo: Russell lied to his followers Jesus would return in 1914.

When 1914 had come and gone, with no Jesus in sight, Russell modified his teachings and claimed Jesus had, in fact, returned to Earth, but that his return was invisible.

True or false?

my point here is that; before you can say that somebody lied, especially when you say in your own post that "with no Jesus in sight"

here is it;

the bolded phrase in your own post above "with no Jesus in sight" means that russel before 1914 prediction according to you was talking earlier about phisical appearance of jesus , because he (russel) would be sighted

did russel teach that jesus will be sighted phisically in 1914? or he had always meant invisible ever before 1914? show evidences you have, or if you dont mean that then we move to next allegation

i only want to see a captured magazine of which russel actually did say that jesus will be sighted phisically in 1914. produce it, or if you mean otherwise

you said that you are not aware that assemblies of God church made false prediction precisely in june this year when i showed you same facts im showing you now, on this thread

https://www.nairaland.com/1318212/firstborn-does-it-mean-first/7

who is lying now? are you aware or not? i still maintain my stand.

because i refer you a link where barrister dealt with you and exposed you and your religion as an AG, .https://www.nairaland.com/1103279/michael-archangel-really-jesus-revelation/10

you were not comfortable

when you ask me and i said yes he my brother, and i learned a lot from him, he sends me pdfs and microsoft word documents.

does that makes me to be him? no sir, barrister type mostly in capital letters. why would he or i need to change id? we are different persons, you so diverting on this will not save you from your hypocrisy, YOU are on the hot seat now

and lastly i have said it over and over again that im not a jehovahs witnesses. but if their point is legitimate nothing stops me from supporting them.

can we move now

The link u provided mentioned failed predictions made by churches, Assemblies of God and JW inclusive. But u will agree with me that many AG member are not even aware that such predictions were made and will readily accept mistakes made in their article

.

you are lying, they did not accept their mistake after 1914 came and pass, they prophecy other years as you can see above, in may 1916 they made mention of 1935 and 1936 respectively so tell me the time when they render a public apology and said that sorry 'we made a mistake apart from what you are saying based on your personal opinion that they are wrong, who cares what you think? its assembly of God failure and problem rather they shamefully empowered fraudsters of prophets like morris cerullo who was just making false miracles and was exposed and banned in usa not to perform sections on tv

true2god: I am not aware that Assemblies of God made any prediction concerning 1914. If they do, they are wrong.

All the failed predictions of JW, watchtower will never accept they are wrong, they will rather blame thier 'publishers' for bein over-zealous.

You are not aware even when you were noticed, why do you have your awareness travel suddenly when faced with this facts, see the facts as it rolls out, the wiki link beneath;

Assemblies of God Church

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfulfilled_Christian_religious_predictions#Assemblies_of_God_Church

During World War I, 1914–1918 The Weekly Evangel, an official publication of the Assemblies of God, carried this prediction:

"We are not yet in the Armageddon struggle proper, but at its commencement, and it may be, if students of prophecy read the signs aright, that Christ will come before the present war closes, and before Armageddon...The war preliminary to Armageddon, it seems, has commenced.

After the prophecy failed, and then, Assemblies of God's light gets brigther and brigther, they see more prophecies,

"Other editions of Weekly Evangel of April 10, 1917 edition, page 3 speculated that the end would come no later than 1934 1935.

May 13, 1916 pp 6–9 prophecy future date after previous ones failed

Are your church's leaders false prophets or not? im not saying that maybe the are wrong or you admitting that they are wrong, but are they reliable? even when May 13 of weekly evangel, 1916 pp 6–9 prophecy future date after previous ones failed

answer please, im not a lawyer as you try to sell, concentrate on the topic

false prophet yes or no

true2god: I am not aware that Assemblies of God made any prediction concerning 1914. If they do, they are wrong.

All the failed predictions of JW, watchtower will never accept they are wrong, they will rather blame thier 'publishers' for bein over-zealous.

You are not aware even when you were noticed, why do you have your awareness travel suddenly when faced with this facts, see the facts as it rolls out, the wiki link beneath;

Assemblies of God Church

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfulfilled_Christian_religious_predictions#Assemblies_of_God_Church

During World War I, 1914–1918 The Weekly Evangel, an official publication of the Assemblies of God, carried this prediction:

"We are not yet in the Armageddon struggle proper, but at its commencement, and it may be, if students of prophecy read the signs aright, that Christ will come before the present war closes, and before Armageddon...The war preliminary to Armageddon, it seems, has commenced.

After the prophecy failed, and then, Assemblies of God's light gets brigther and brigther, they see more prophecies,

"Other editions of Weekly Evangel of April 10, 1917 edition, page 3 speculated that the end would come no later than 1934 1935.

May 13, 1916 pp 6–9 prophecy future date after previous ones failed

Are your church's leaders false prophets or not? im not saying that maybe the are wrong or you admitting that they are wrong, but are they reliable? even when May 13 of weekly evangel, 1916 pp 6–9 prophecy future date after previous ones failed

answer please, im not a lawyer as you try to sell, concentrate on the topic

false prophet yes or no