₦airaland Forum

Thanks Sir

n3xt:
Good one.

Please don’t forget to engage an independent investigator to ascertain the integrity of the structure because your finished floor in the area where 10 inches slab was added might end up getting to almost 20 inches.

Old slab - 6 inches
New slab - 10 inches
Floor screed (prior to tiling) - 2 inches
Tiles - 0.5 inch

You need to be sure your columns can support the imposed load or there’ll be need for supplemental columns.

[corrections are being made as we speak.. Thank you for ur observation!

quote author=Naijapal post=102720413]

The flight of this stairs is too long. While it looks nice, it functionally not okay. It would be tiring for kids to climb.[/quote]

How u speak and ur name are ironic.. U speak so much sense everytime u come out here and I respect you even more for that! Thank you.. I would keep everyone posted!

smallsmall:
To resolve any problem amicably, both sides must come out clean and be honest about it.
@Rotech77 should be straight-forward in your statements, there is no need and nothing will be gained from further twist and turns, what happened is very clear to you and everyone else, l am sure you will learn from it and get better, just like @Brabus have learnt from his past mistakes and got better.

@BigTee, l think your "private chats" should not be posted online, when the discussions are still ongoing.
The reason ; say this is so that the issue of 'bruised ego and self preservation', which are normal developments when things get nasty, does not make the current negotiations difficult.
This is different from updating the house, about the progress/outcome of such negotiation, which is important.

I will implore you to be magnanimous in your quest for compensation, see, the money as a loss to you and the contractor, since it is for bad work, not work that is not done. See it like: apart from the 100K he collected for supervision, the other costs and even the new ones you just incurred, were outright losses to his person.

Let the negotiation go on till both of you can finally agree at a figure that is fair, but you will need to be magnanimous and forgot a lot of it, for the sake of tomorrow.
Please, biiko, na you we go beg.
I pray your remedy is the right one.

Rotech77.. People on this forum want to trust you! They have high respect for you as u have been a long standing member of this forum.. And 90 percent of ur customers come from here!

The way u are going about this whole thing is going to only worsen things! Lying to make ur customer look stupid is not nice.. U agreed I spent nothing less than 620k(excluding cost of iron rod which u begged me to remove) not u are saying I spent 500k? Why? Why lying? I hope u know that the people on this page are not children who would not see beneath and beyond ur ways!

rotecch77:
Well as said we are in talk he spent about 500k the buildings slope ( not handle by me as you all know ) so from this 500k my intention is to give him 100k but I’m ready to dole out 250k to him and move on.
Life no end there.

Rotech, once again u are trying to make me look foolish and I don't like it one bit! Pls don't try to play smart here.. Don't even try it!
I told u to pay N500k out of 900k+ spent correcting the slope and out of the overall apprx 1.2m spent correcting all ur mistakes.. Yet u come here to say I spent 500k? Don't try to play games with me bro!

Once again u have proven to be very crooked and not straight forward.. Attached to this post are screenshot of my conversation with rotech this morning

rotecch77:
Well as said we are in talk he spent about 500k the buildings slope ( not handle by me as you all know ) so from this 500k my intention is to give him 100k but I’m ready to dole out 250k to him and move on.
Life no end there.

It would give me no greater joy than to delete these posts once he has sufficiently reimbursed me for my losses..

The longer he delays.. The more people see it and the more posts I make on other pages too.. It's all a losers game right? Let's see who loses more!

smallsmall:
You are saying a different thing entirely.
The argument is not about who is THE HEAD of the Building Team.
Ofcourse, that has to be the person who made the drawing, the Architect, so he can coordinate activities of every other Professional involved. That is an administrative solution.

The issues was about the Structural Stability (No Collapsing) of a building, does that responsibility rest with the Architect or the Structural Engineer?

Any Architect, good or bad or Unqualified, can design anything, beautiful, Ugly or just rubbish. It can still be built and will stand without collapsing, if the Structural Calculations are properly done by a Structural Engineer.

But if the Structural Engineer is bad or a Quack, no matter how beautiful or good the Architectural Drawing of the building is, it will Collapse during Construction or be an accident waiting to happen.

Look at the current example between @BigTee and @Rotech77, you can see that there was no problem with the Architectural drawing but @Rotech77 was doubling as the Structural Engineer (at implementation Stage) and Builder, both of which l think he is not qualified to do, not to mention the 'lack of adequate supervision' as a result of putting unqualified subordinates in charge of a Decking job..
I can vouch that @Rotech77 is a good and qualified electrical Technologist/Installer/Contractor and we have all seen his Electrical Contract works on display here, top notch, especially his terminations but is he a qualified Building Engineer (Structural )? if he is, how can he not know to use a simple Level to check at every point of the Decking job?
Anyone who is not a Qualified Builder should not venture into building Storey Buildings or Multi-level Houses, you might get away with your mistakes over time but it only takes one, just one mistake, for calamity to happen. We pray against such thing.
Restrict you trial and error to Bungalows and no one would know.

We have seen the same type of 'error of professional competence' in the early, past works of @Brabus (QC-1 and other's jobs) though he has learned over the years and is likely better now but it is not a Clients building work that should be used to "experiment and learn", that should be done in a School setting and complemented with Work Experience.
A lot of "cross-profession" seems to be ongoing nowadays because everyone wants to take their share of the Building Cake.
Architects, Surveyors, Electricians and even Baba Lati are all parading as builders and building Storey buildings!

@Rotech77: please approach your Client @Bigtee and work out how you can cushion his expenses, dont let this matter go beyond here and infact, if you can settle with your Client, beg him to take down his postings on this issue. There is no way you would come out unscathed, if you keep defending the indefensible.

The PRIMARY JOB of a Structural Engineer is to ensure the STABILITY of any Architectural Design, so as to avoid Collapse.
That of the Architect is TO DESIGN the Building, mostly aesthetics and beauty.[/b]

Well said sir

smallsmall:
You are saying a different thing entirely.
The argument is not about who is THE HEAD of the Building Team.
Ofcourse, that has to be the person who made the drawing, the Architect, so he can coordinate activities of every other Professional involved. That is an administrative solution.

The issues was about the Structural Stability (No Collapsing) of a building, does that responsibility rest with the Architect or the Structural Engineer?

Any Architect, good or bad or Unqualified, can design anything, beautiful, Ugly or just rubbish. It can still be built and will stand without collapsing, if the Structural Calculations are properly done by a Structural Engineer.

But if the Structural Engineer is bad or a Quack, no matter how beautiful or good the Architectural Drawing of the building is, it will Collapse during Construction or be an accident waiting to happen.

Look at the current example between @BigTee and @Rotech77, you can see that there was no problem with the Architectural drawing but @Rotech77 was doubling as the Structural Engineer (at implementation Stage) and Builder, both of which l think he is not qualified to do, not to mention the 'lack of adequate supervision' as a result of putting unqualified subordinates in charge of a Decking job..
I can vouch that @Rotech77 is a good and qualified electrical Technologist/Installer/Contractor and we have all seen his Electrical Contract works on display here, top notch, especially his terminations but is he a qualified Building Engineer (Structural )? if he is, how can he not know to use a simple Level to check at every point of the Decking job?
Anyone who is not a Qualified Builder should not venture into building Storey Buildings or Multi-level Houses, you might get away with your mistakes over time but it only takes one, just one mistake, for calamity to happen. We pray against such thing.
Restrict you trial and error to Bungalows and no one would know.

We have seen the same type of 'error of professional competence' in the early, past works of @Brabus (QC-1 and other's jobs) though he has learned over the years and is likely better now but it is not a Clients building work that should be used to "experiment and learn", that should be done in a School setting and complemented with Work Experience.
A lot of "cross-profession" seems to be ongoing nowadays because everyone wants to take their share of the Building Cake.
Architects, Surveyors, Electricians and even Baba Lati are all parading as builders and building Storey buildings!

@Rotech77: please approach your Client @Bigtee and work out how you can cushion his expenses, dont let this matter go beyond here and infact, if you can settle with your Client, beg him to take down his postings on this issue. There is no way you would come out unscathed, if you keep defending the indefensible.

The PRIMARY JOB of a Structural Engineer is to ensure the STABILITY of any Architectural Design, so as to avoid Collapse.
That of the Architect is TO DESIGN the Building, mostly aesthetics and beauty.[/b]

We are back to decking... To everyone following this project.. Including the owner of the project.. I have 1 or 2 things to say!

Well well well. I hope the owner of this project is on nairaland..

The planks were just removed on the 3rd or 4th and work started immediately.. As the work progressed the issue of sloping and decking bouncing started arising.. I contacted rotech who didn't handle such a serious issue with any sense of urgency!

Amastermovic:
This vibration does it come from foot load traffic and have u try to also observe the structure when heavy vehicle pass through your site road as well ..

the new guy approach is quite expensive (assumption) because I dont know how the building is scheme it may be d best

using mesh and addition thickness of 50mm to the slab couple with finishes of tiles chairs table bed etc etc will reduce d vibration .

What I'm just trying to say is while dragging your contractor you may likely need to drag ur designer a little because d reason you paid 4 is rest of mind ..

Contractor as well should have an in house person to quickly help them check the design before they commence with construction ..

check should be carry out for as built structure before you proceed , some as built work can land u in problem big one.


or you should have posted this for long maybe a easy fix will be suggested .


.

I would have shared in ur opinion if I didn't go there personally and see depth of the problem first hand.. I went to he site.. Stood on the decking at point A. The engineer walked and took a little jump on point B and the whole decking bounced! I was even scared for myself! If not that the engineer was well grounded in the field he would have ended his contract there and then! As that wasn't initially what he was paid to do! He was paid to supervise block work, lintel and parapet works..

After the cost of corrections done over there.. I can't even afford to do parapet again.. As funds budgeted have been largely depleted on corrections!.

The engineer in question didn't charge a penny extra on his professional fees for the corrections he did as he knew that the issue was unforseen and already costing alot! I bought all the materials myself! So he the engineer didn't gain anything from pointing out an obvious issue!

n3xt:
I knew what’s at play here and there’s no way I’d try to explain this without sounding insensitive to the issue at hand.

Few weeks back, someone asked a question on my thread and I shared this post below.



Some people/contractor are so hungry that the only thing they’d be looking for on a project is the fault of other contractors and they’d make the issue look like heaven is going to crash if something is not done urgently.

Also clients need to take my advice above serious when working with busy contractors to avoid being ripped off by unsuspecting and hungry contractors.


_________

That aside, please kindly work with the client offline to find an amicable resolution and always ensure that critical stage of work are personally supervised by you (especially the concrete pour).

I’m sure if you did you’d have spotted the issue during the concrete pour and put the clients mind at rest.

The most important of this profession is supervision which must be done right. Delegation doesn’t offload accountability.




Good morning and Happy New Week.

Rotech might have been paid 100k for supervision but his company was paid well over n730,000 to bring their Carpenter, casting cost, iron bender, plumber and electrician while the decking was being prepared for casting.. I appreciate ur input sir.. However rotech would do part of the compensation while God does the rest! Negligence is an expensive issue especially in areas like decking..

Dijita:
Good morning Rotech. I am one of your client. so far i don't have complaint about you. I want to urge you to resolved this offline with your client.
Your experience or the number of project mistakes you have corrected in the past is not relevant to this client because the mistake of your workers you are responsible to supervise cost the client what he said to be over #1m. That is not a chicken change.
I know you have apologize to the client but you still need to offer him something. You said you were paid #100,000 for supervision. The reason for the #100,000 is for the client to derive the maximum benefit from the #500,000 spent on the artisans and materials.
Part of the reason we hire people on this forum is so that we can hold you guys accountable if you mess up. In this case you did drop the ball.

@bigitie,
I know how you feel because I had similar experience with my roofing woodwork that I had to tear it down and do it all over due to the stupidity and corruptness of the engineer. All I could do was to fire his ass. There is no way for me to recover my money from him. Even if I reported him to COHEN or whatever professional body he claim to belong they will not pay me back my money. I just let it go. That's why when some people claim to be COHEN engineer, I just laugh. Certificate does not teach morality. We have people from the best universities in the world and member of prestigious professional bodies robbing us of our national treasure daily.

Please and please @bigitie, a proverb say to err is human and to forgive is divine. Please consider his gesture and be considerate. God almighty will recompense you.

.

Rotech77 Arbo contractor! , we have seen ur apology but it doesn't change anything.. How much are u ready to refund from the 1.2m spent correcting ur mess? Words are Empty.. I have reached out to u for more than a week now hoping u would do the needful.. And even sent u the quotation of what was spent there..

You might think 1.2m is too big a sum to pay.. But know that I won't stop here until all ur clients and potential clients see what u have done... At the end of the day.. Let's see who the biggest loser is!

rotecch77:
Thanks you all I really appreciate you people
Actually it’s not in my DNA to talk too much on issue as this, once I made my point i move.
But to be candid I have told him sorry on whatzap chart (actully my conversation with cleint is confidential ) but he said no that he need to come public to post it.

Any way I believed NOBODY IS PARAGON we learn everyday.

@bigitie I’m sorry again.

Thank you all
I rely appreciate

He wasn't even there during the casting.. He also didn't tell me ahead that he won't be there!

Homextras:
While I may not have the full details of what has transpired in this transaction, I will refrain from passing judgment until Rotech comes to share his side. However, sending someone to come check out your claims is a big NO NO. He should have been there himself regardless of schedule.

I dislike when I give a professional a job and he collects money into his account but sends someone.

Sir.. I don't know u from anywhere oo. But my God will bless u.. I know how hard I worked for the 3.54m I spent on that decking..

I planned to do block work and parapet this month .. Only for me to start spending over 1.2m to correct rotech77 's mistake.. If i curse him.. I swear it would reach him.. Because I know that for every 1k I make.. My body feels the stress! I deprive myself alot so I can complete the house and just rest.

bixton:
We are to handle cost of LABOR and SUPERVISION ONLY.NO MATERIALS

Material
The client bought ALL the MATERIALS himself, even when he bought at high rate, it took me and my project manager to went round with him for a whole day to get the remaining materials at good rate in his present and he paid for such and they delivered it to site for him.

The slab
The client provides structural design which we follow accordingly without missing any part, ( pics attached)

The stair way
The issue of omonile delayed the casting and we finished the work at night around 9pm with touch light ( at the process ONLY ONE of the RISER plank break ( simple cutting off when-ready to tile the stir) not an issue )


Slab Slope
As you all know the Last level is where to follow while preparing your slab beam which we did after himself and I with others worker checked the building height ( unfortunately nobody sense the buildings height is slightly diff in height by 6” in one side )
We did the formwork we put the reinforcements and he came to check it and he was there the day we casted it.


Last and current issue
@bigitie called me last Sunday that the decking is bouncing in sittingroom area, I said its not possible we did what we supposed to do and you saw it then, he now said another engr as take over the upper structure job ( bcs we don’t agree on price about this upper floor) so I said May be they loaded much block on a sport there, later he said the new man will take care of that.
Later he said the building slope I said my site man will come on 3days time to check ( tue - wed)
But my site man couldn’t make it until 4 days after ( today) they check round with the new man and himself and FOuND OUT THAT ITS 5” or so in slope In ONE side only due to POOR FOUNDATION they did for him with NON accurate block Height which the NEW ENGr that handle the new job also told him in the present of my site supervisor that went there to check. The issue .


The bolded is not an excusable excuse. It's pure negligence of all your substitute staffs. Your negligence started from your carpenter and site supervisor. The new site engineer is just trying to collaborate the talk trying to drive away the blame.

Let me use the lintel height to explain what your carpenter ought to have done........

This is where your carpenter and iron man ought to work together.
At the point where you obviously notice uneven block at that height, you take appropriate level from the gdfloor to ascertain the true height and transfer all round.you can do this locally or by way of instrument.....whatsoever block that needs to be chipped off is done with and the iron man goes about his work properly.

Please accept the blame and make amends with the client. That idea of shifting blame on who did foundation works is very unprofessional.

I experienced such a thing as far back as 2008-2010 and I did not need to explain to the carpenter on what to do. I was then working with the company that handled former Gov. Amaechi 105 Health Centre Project in Rivers State.

To the client Biig Tee apologies for what happened to you. I pray the new engineer remedied the job properly to avoid stories in future.

If rotech77 had done his due deligence nobody would be casting that thickness of concrete again.. 2. If rotech had come down to the site when I. Informed him of his mistake.. Maybe he could have rubbed minds with the person working there to come up with a better solution..

But did he come? No! Did he send anybody? No! Sending somebody a week after he was informed of the problem is just stupid! Was he expecting the engineeer there to fold arms and be waiting for him to come?

n3xt:
Who recommended this solution?

I think 10 inches thick concrete is just too much load on the structure regardless of the justification the engineer might have given.

Sorry for this error.

________

A simple fix for such issue is just to section the slab after confirming that the as-built design of the slab conform with structural design requirement.

.

.

Posting pictures of the decking work doesn't mean u did ur due deligence before u cast and while casting the decking.. If u cast it well.. Why was it bouncing?

If u made sure the carpenters work was level.. Why was the decking sloping by 9"?

Could this not have been avoided if u were present and fully doing ur supervision work as u were paid to do?

rotecch77:
Good evening all.

My comment here is to say noting but the truth and to all of us both client and contractor, if you do bad and expect good reward it’s a joke you can’t get such,
If you do good and people are ready to paint you bad.... don’t worry your good did will fight for you, I understand that nobody is perfect but we still have good people’s in this world

. Let’s go to the issue at hand now.

@ bigitie contacted us here as others clients do to handle a slab ( decking) work for him in ogun state which both of us agreed.

We are to handle cost of LABOR and SUPERVISION ONLY.NO MATERIALS

Material
The client bought ALL the MATERIALS himself, even when he bought at high rate, it took me and my project manager to went round with him for a whole day to get the remaining materials at good rate in his present and he paid for such and they delivered it to site for him.

Omonile wahala
Hmmm, we almost lost a worker to omolenile, they came to site to stop us 3 diff times with GUN, MATCHES and JUJU, Infact it’s terrible experience.
The day we are casting the client was there with us ( my workers, site supervisor, project manager) that day the client also was TOTALLY CONFUSED he didn’t know what to do again. The omonile deal with my workers seriously and they took money again from us.
This drama lasted for like 3hours, haaaaa omonile hmmm it’s not good ooo. We see segeee dat day.

The slab
The client provides structural design which we follow accordingly without missing any part, ( pics attached)

The stair way
The issue of omonile delayed the casting and we finished the work at night around 9pm with touch light ( at the process ONLY ONE of the RISER plank break ( simple cutting off when-ready to tile the stir) not an issue )


Slab Slope
As you all know the Last level is where to follow while preparing your slab beam which we did after himself and I with others worker checked the building height ( unfortunately nobody sense the buildings height is slightly diff in height by 6” in one side )
We did the formwork we put the reinforcements and he came to check it and he was there the day we casted it.


Last and current issue
@bigitie called me last Sunday that the decking is bouncing in sittingroom area, I said its not possible we did what we supposed to do and you saw it then, he now said another engr as take over the upper structure job ( bcs we don’t agree on price about this upper floor) so I said May be they loaded much block on a sport there, later he said the new man will take care of that.
Later he said the building slope I said my site man will come on 3days time to check ( tue - wed)
But my site man couldn’t make it until 4 days after ( today) they check round with the new man and himself and FOuND OUT THAT ITS 5” or so in slope In ONE side only due to POOR FOUNDATION they did for him with NON accurate block Height which the NEW ENGr that handle the new job also told him in the present of my site supervisor that went there to check. The issue .



Bum bigtie said he will come to public
To publish my name and my workers name.

Well if you do good .., good things shall follow you.

Thank you all

.

.

Can you all see the amount of concrete that was cast to level the decking the a professional claimed to have supervised! No, look at it and tell me why I should feel happy! 10" of thick concrete! Even thicker than decking which is usually 6"

.

.

.

Thanks for ur concern sir.. I am positive a good job has been done to correct rotech77 's poor work.. Thank God It didn't collapse!

OAKGroup:
Hmmm, this is serious, decking is a very critical stage.
@biigtee, hope the latest engineer assured you that the decking will work fine.
If not, it may need to be abandoned so as to avoid accident today or later in future.

.

.

.

.

.