₦airaland Forum

I am sure if a few countries in africa had sent in troops to assist one of the greatest brothers of this century , this war would have been over.

Maybe, but there is scant an African country that has the money. If anyone should have done it, Algeria should have done it. They have the most money out of all of Libya's neighbors.

The problem is, Al-Jazeera supported the war, and Arabs watch Al-Jazeera like rednecks watch Fox News.

I have come to notice, that all the African English creoles are transcribed in a way that makes it very hard for a native English speaker to understand.

It seems to come from the fact that Africans themselves are not familiar english spelling in the first place.

Someone should make up a standard for pidgin.

I dont understand this article, poorly written.

I

see the imbecilic toad did not mention how he sent his troops into Chad, how he sponsored Rebel movements in Chad and Sudan (the Libyan sponsored Sudanese rebels eventually became the infamous supporter of APC behind much of the killings in Darfur).

The invasion into Chad was two-fold, first it was to begin to create his Islamic republic which would eventually include Sudan, to remove the French puppet from govt, and lastly to counter Sudan's meddling in Chad. You have to understand the Chadian revolutionaries were tired of the country being run like a French piggy bank, but eventually somehow they had a falling out with ghaddafi, reversing all their gains.

Finally, Gadaffi's adopted daughter did not die in the missile attack from the US as the man had claimed. It was discovered this year that she had been alive all this while.

It is truly unknown, it is a common practice in the arab world to name ur next child after the dead one.

I think what we need to find out now is what will be the effect on black africa.

Bad, NTC is quick to reach out to "arab" countries that didnt want them in power, but quick to try to force the hand of African countries. African countries were quick to show their hand as well.

Meanwhile, the NTC has practically zero control over the country, and Jalil openly allowed the ethnic cleansing in Tawergha. No African leaders held him publically accountable. The problem I guess, is Ghaddafís investments around Africa, alot of libyan companies are doing telecommunications and even baking cookies in other countries. They dont want this things to get taken away under NTC, so even if NTC cant control Libya, they can control the other Africans.

I respect you for being upright and telling the truth. I have clearly pointed out that cap is a demented liar. You can see how he is talking about my parents - he has no decency at all. instead of him to explain himself he has started acting like an animal.

We are here to discuss the topic though. Just let it go, just let it go.

I got called up for operational training in Libya in a year I would rather not specify, so know a thing or two about the benevolence of our "brother leader" (wait a minute, wasn't Yar a'dua a 'Servant leader’ also?).

What in the world do you do that got you called up to Libya? What about his benevolence, do tell?

As far as the rest of your post, Ghaddafi's Islamism/Arabism is weird. It's another contradiction, he was inspired deeply by Nasser, who was oddly, half African himself. In that respect, Nasser could be seen in the same respect as Rafael Trujillo of DR.

Ghaddafi routinely prosecuted people for being too Islamic, and his Arabism ended after his disaffection with the gulf states. His Arabism was more Islamism, and completely different than the Arabism of Gulf States, because he reached out to dark Arabs.

Benghazi was not about democracy, it was about the sharia law, and sponsored by Salufis who wanted to get rid of Ghaddafi because he thought they were extremists.

With all due respect, the picture of the woman you posted is an Arab woman and the other pictures do not resemble Gadaffi at all!

With all due respect, all the people in the pictures were Bedouins, so yes, Bedouins are Arabs, but they come in many shades. All the people in the pictures had features in common with "black africans".

Arab does not mean light nor white, there is a huge race issue in Saudi Arabia, and the Western media plays to it because they purposefully block coverage of black Arabs, and consider Arabs caucasian.

I have seen many Saudis, and many of them are indistinguishable from Africans.

Gadaffi is more than happy to insult, degrade and abuse black africans in a bid to be on good terms with his former colonials masters - the equally racist italians.

I am rather surprised that Cap28 said this. When I heard Ghaddafi's speech on immigration, I took his statements about dumb, uneducated blacks and turning Europe black as satirical. A play to European fears, after all, Ghaddafi has on several occasions praised blacks, even when speaking to Arab audiences. Even in his Green Book, although at the same time, Ghaddafi has made disparaging statements about blacks, but these are based probably on the upbringing that makes most North Africans racist against dark folks.

I say this because the quote Ghaddafi made about blacks, their breeding ability, and heat is taken almost directly from ideas proposed by an ancient philosopher who I believe was Arab in origin.

Ghaddafi seems to have had a natural love for blacks, that conflicted with his upbringing, which is why u get so many criss-cross statements from him. His actions however, are concrete.

Like I said, do not make me deem you another one of them mo=rons with access to the internet. Undecided

Can you show me a news report from Feb 15th that says they were protesting democracy? I dont see how I am being a slowpoke because I disagree with what you are saying.

I have shown you proof of what I say so you can see why im saying it. I dont want to seem closed minded, please show me a news report from Feb 15th that says they were protesting for democracy. I apologize if I offended you with the "cnn inspired" remark.

No make me call you mo=ron.   Undecided

im just saying sweetie, u must not have looked at the reports becuz if u did, u would see they were not protesting for democracy.

If you read the article i posted, you would see there were groups waiting for some type of disturbance to begin trying to depose Ghaddafi. If you think they were dumb enough to not expect the West to jump on board, then i dont know what to say to you.

thanks for your daily diligence in this matter pendo.

libya is not just an island by itself though. Mali, Niger, Chad, and Algeria didnt do anything to deserve this chaos on their borders.

I read your replies and I will take the time to watch those videos and possibly download them before they go off YouTube. Thank you for that. I'm in Maryland, where are you?

I see what she's saying, but she is not even considering anything that goes against her CNN inspired beliefs. The reports from Feb. 15th clearly state that it had nothing to do with democracy.

Anyway, im in maryland too. We are probably right next to each other.

I have to do all the research for you? BTW, this is what's coming from an article PRAISING Belhaj.

http://www.middleeastmonitor.org.uk/resources/reports-and-publications/2784-who-is-abdul-hakim-belhadj-the-leader-of-the-libyan-rebels

However, the efforts of another Libyan opposition leader, Shaikh Ali Salaabi, ensured that Belhadj's role was not over, despite the hardship.

Salaabi took advantage of the relative level of openness in Libya during the last few years of Gaddafi's rule to promote a reconciliation project with the support of the dictator's son, Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, and some of his fellow liberals and Islamists living in London. Colonel Gaddafi was persuaded that the political direction of the Islamic Fighting Group was safe and that there was a need to turn the page on the past and move forward by releasing the Islamists.

His release in March 2010, along with 214 others from Abu Salim Prison, was the first time that something like that had happened in Libya's history. There was a great deal of media coverage of the event that was to change the course of contemporary Libyan history and lay the basis for ideological reviews in a number of other Arab countries.

Abdul Hakim Belhadj was one of the most balanced members of the Group; he believed that the confrontation with the Libyan regime in 1995 was premature and instigated by the Libyan security forces. Nevertheless, all members of the "free Libya" project understood that the overthrow of Gaddafi would only be achieved through force of arms.

Scores of demonstrators fell in Benghazi, the stronghold of the revolution, turning the quiet city into the nemesis of the colonel and his collaborators; but 2011 was quite different from 1995. Abdel-Hakim Belhadj and his companions carried arms and he was later appointed by the Interim Libyan Council to lead the most decisive battles against Gaddafi.

This is just one of many articles proving there were various instigators to the violence that started Feb 15th in Benghazi. This article fails to mention the extreme havoc the protesters caused in Benghazi and other Libyan cities before the crackdown began.

I have quotes, from reuters, regarding that also.

BlackLibya addressed the issue of what the fight was about when it began. And the assumption of unclothedness and bad oral hygiene, don't make such accusations without proof to back it up. It reduces the discussion to an amateur level.
Besides, one who chooses to ignore the past will definitely repeat it.

Thank you Tummy. Perhaps you would like to see my post in the forum I linked? Unlike what Kobojunkie says, it is a point by point refutation of everything she claimed. It is not a ramble, but each point that I made is backed up with evidence and reports.

Kobojunkie apparently refuses to believe that the protesters were violent and had turned into a pogrom before they started being shot at. In fact, as I point out, the unwillingness to shoot is what caused the situation to get out of hand.

What part of the states u in?

^^^^

I saw what u said, but if u read the old reports, which i linked to you in the previous article here.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-786201.64.html

I even went so far as to address all the claims you made there, and show you video and photographic evidence.

^^^^

really? that first pic showed up when i typed Genevieve

Wow, oluchi married a white man. All these African women marry white men its not fair.

But the People of Libya chose in February to Protest and since then fought for to get DEMOCRACY. Are you suggesting that because their forefathers probably never practiced it before them, Democracy should NEVER be an option they are able to choose for themselves??

when did they say they were protesting for democracy? When it started they were protesting the arrest of a particular individual. Not for democracy. It didnt come about for democracy until Belhaj and his crew decided they were gonna go get weapons, and start attacking govt buildings and police.

Once the west got a hold of a decent enough "story" they made it about democracy. Sharia law and the democracy the West talks about in Libya do not go hand in hand. Sharia law always leads to a theocracy, which is not a democracy, examples can be seen in northern nigeria.

[url=http://You live in US? Why not Libya?]You live in US? Why not Libya?[/url]

I wanted to visit so i could get an idea of what its like. I have a job in the U.S that I would not have in Libya. I make more money here than I would in Libya, or many countries around the world, including European countries. So that is why, it is too late to visit now, maybe they wouldnt kill me because im american.

I guess she is into Unclad stuffs now. Lwkmd!

lol, good she is representing her african heritage. The bikini is the closest thing to traditional igbo attire.

^^^^

u did not respond to my post. And ghaddafi was not in the arabian desert, the sahara is an african desert with african peoples in it.

Ghaddafi was a Bedouin, here are Bedouin people. They dont look like arabians to me, btw, Southern Arabian peninsula is filled with dark skinned people. I have routinely been surprised at the diversity of people coming from Saudi Arabia, as many of them look black African.

[img]http://cunningvision.files./2010/08/bedouin-woman3.jpg?w=950&h=1326[/img]

https://bp3.blogger.com/_473nrD5vEv8/SD1bcSqvKyI/AAAAAAAAAjA/asFYdaOfqVE/s1600-h/bedouin-girl.jpg

https://www.dreamstime.com/bedouin-in-desert-sahara-thumb9807350.jpg

https://www.usefilm.com/images/4/1/8/4/4184/1071332-medium.jpg

https://bp3.blogger.com/_473nrD5vEv8/SD1bcSqvKyI/AAAAAAAAAjA/asFYdaOfqVE/s1600-h/bedouin-girl.jpg

exactly,you have actually made the point, the point here is that it is a corrupt form of democracy as the real ideals and tenets of democracy according to the aristotles and other political thinkers is a system of governance which is meant to represent the wills and views of the majority. excluding any demographic has automatically turned it into an undemocratic arrangement

One does not need philosophers and such to make and propose ideas. The African forms of govt were usually sufficient, and the African democracies were far superior than anything in the West. The problem with the European as opposed to African democracy, is that the European democracy is based on the individual. The democracy is setup to protect the minority at the cost of disrupting the majority. The legislative process itself is filled with so many checks and balances, that the only way to overcome them is with corruption. In the African democracy, if the group does not benefit, it does not go, because chiefs were truly accountable to their villages, by more than just being elected or not as you mentioned, lets not forget the religious element.

i will disagree with you on this,even though i am not a fan of democracy as such compared to communism which is my own ideal system of governance all things being equal but you will find out that in a 100% democratic situation things tend to run smoothly as there are checks and balances on the leadership. [i]the whole idea about governance is to maintain a balance as a nation or state or nation state consists of individuals with different religions,class,upbringing,finances [/i]e.t.c how do you control a non democratic or a leader with absolute power? remember the ageless quote that absolute power corrupts absolutely.

That is the concept of an empire or federation dear sir. A nation, is one people, one religion, etc, and etc. In the European democracy, it is conditioned around the system of capitalism, which causes the aggregation of capital. Aggregation of one resource by one group causes imbalance, since capital and not barter is the means of all transactions in this system, aggregators of capital have undue influence over the paralyzed democratic system. This gives them absolute power.

Communism is a centralized govt. Centralized govts cannot effectively distribute resources equally, because the nature of centralization requires hoarding of resources at one point. This creates imbalance, and leads to corruption.

yes but would you agree with the methods being used by most of those empires?
this is why i gave the example of the old oyo empire,while we see it as a monarchy but they actually practised a democratic form of governance because the king does not hold absolute unchecked power.he could be deposed by being pressured/forced by the chiefs representing the people to commit suicide, the chiefs in turn are the first recipient to be shown the displeasure of the populace if the empire is not being run properly.
if you look at the south eastern part,and their republican ideals they even have a more stricter form of checks and balances on their successive igwes,
for me i believe africa unknowingly started the democratic system of governance,the west modernised it in corncert with the greek ideals

agreed, except i dont think the west modernized it, they merely imposed their own system.

If we had used the loans for the right purpose, we wouldn't be in this state.

She is right. The loans come with stipulations that Africans change certain laws and eliminate the protectionism african countries built around themselves. This is one reason in the explosion in land grabs across africa.

Another problem with your thinking, is that it doesnt recognize the fact that most of the leaders in power were not originally elected, but couped elected leaders themselves. These people do not care about the population to begin with, and are merely puppets.

So they dont care about how the loan is used.

Well, at least Ghaddafi tried to do something. We can argue over whether he was racist or what the meaning was behind his actions, but the point is that he was doing things that were benefitting the continent. On one end yes he was funding rebellions around the continent at some point, but ultimately, he had projects in the works that would benefit everyone and help free the continent from the conditions that caused the rebellions in the first place.

But oh well, some people are more worried about racism or what religion he wanted or whatever to see the forest for the trees. Like Samouri Toure and his Wassalou Empire, he wasted precious time fighting with the animists over accepting Islam, and all he accomplished were rebellions that the French took advantage of and crushed him.

People looking at the trees and not the forest, instead of uniting against the enemy. All of them got f.ucked in the end and the animists are christians now so poo.

democracy has never been practised in its real sense of "GOVERNMENT FOR THE PEOPLE AND BY THE PEOPLE" what has been practised all over the so called democratised countries have been a corrupt form of democracy

While this is true, it is also true that democracy is the most unstable form of govt there is. It is most effective in a homogenous environment. If one looks at the history of the U.S, one can see that things were kept homogenous by determining who could and couldnt vote, white land owners over the age of 21. That was it. They did not want other groups voting because it would not only complicate the process, but make it harder to maintain the status quo.

Democracy is not effective and does not promote change or reform, which is something less developed countries desperately need. The western judicial system is fair in principle, but in most cases easily exploited due to corruption.

With the exception of the united states, the countries that have produced the most in the world have all been monarchies or empires. This only ended when the nobility(rich people) got tired of dealing with kings and their erratic business policies, that is the root of democracy in WESTERN Europe and America. Forget what ancient greece was doing.

There has been more contact btw the MIDDLE EAST/Europe and north Africa than NA and subSahara Africa. We are very different in culture and skin colour. We just share the same continent.

Do you guys research anything?

Ancient Egypt traded with the Arabs.

Nubia traded with Arabs and Egyptians, and later intermarried heavily with arabs.

Aksum/Kush ruled southern Arabia, Yemen in particular.

Kanem-Bornu was an empire compromised in different parts of Arabs, Berbers, and Africans.

Darfur traded with Arabs.

There is legend that The Ghana was defeated by the Almoravid Dynasty of Morocco, which considered itself Arab.

Songhai was one of the major centers of education in the Arab/Islamic world.

Sokoto Caliphate was a powerful player in the Arab/Islamic world.

Somalia did alot of trade with the middle east, including some intermarrying with Arabs.

The Swahili city states of Kenya had very strong relationships with Arabs, some intermarrying.

Im done, it is obvious even from this list, that there has been plenty of interaction between "North Africa and Arabia" with"sub saharan africa" <--- derogatory term used for the larger part of africa considered inferior.

The Sahara was never a great factor between exchange of culture, trade, or religions in Africa. Therefore, the term sub-saharan is nothing more than a denigrating term invented by Europeans.

@Poster, Libya is most definitely an Arab country, that happens to be in Africa. Even Libyans know and embrace this. Same with Egypt, Tunisia, Morroco, and some others up north.

so ur saying they are not arabized africans then?

she has a weave just like a real naija girl. No real hair she walk round with natural they say aw u go broke?

1. Libya is an African country, with Arabized Africans, who are probably mixed to some extent. We cannot forget that there are native tauregs in libya, baghara, and bedouins which tend to favor the "black africans" you speak of. Even many berbers, have strong black features and look mulatto.

Many libyans appear to be black or mixed with black, but based on skin color they consider themselves different. Even Ghaddafi has black features, saif in some pictures appears to actually be a black man.

2. The UN asked for the Arab League because they knew the Arab league would approve. They never considered the African Union to be credible because Ghaddafi founded it. Also, the African nations on the council did not force the UNSC to include them in the resolution. This is a failure on the part of that organization.

3. Most North African countries were under the rule of the Ottoman Empire which was Islamic. Muslims tend to kill anyone who is not muslim, so that's why many people moved south after they invaded.

4. If black libyans were killed, what makes you think no egyptians, tunisians, etc died? Nubians and Chadians who both are considered "arabs" were being killed right along with everyone other black person. Did you know that the scenes in "Inception" where they were supposed to be in Mombassa, Kenya were all filmed in Morrocco? Did you see all those black people?

5. The Arab/Western media reported it as the Arab spring. What you did not know was that at the same time, Uganda, Djibouti, Guinea, and I believe Burkina Faso or Burundi rose up. Anyway, it didnt fit the narrative with what the West wanted to do so it didnt receive coverage.

6. That is partially true. He has always defended Africa though, even when he was "pan-arab", I prefer to use the term "pan-islamist" because it makes more sense of the way he was spending his money on all those terrorists or revolutionaries around Africa.