₦airaland Forum

Barristter07:
Act 2:36 would have saved you this embarrassment.
" Therefore let all Israel know with certainty that God has made this Jesus , whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ!” - BSB

So his Lordship was as permitted by the Father. He Controls it. So that invalidate your point


But show me where Jesus made or Give the Father his Godship ?

I totally Agree with you bro.

johnw47:
what is needed know nothing, is for you to get intelligence



confused one, you understand nothing
the Father fathered the son, oh really, give more of this insight
Father gave Jesus the son life, wow, your knowledge is never ending

before Jesus was man(the Son) He was God the Word, His existance had no beginning
except as a seperate person to the Father

of course you won't understand again, confusion reigns in you and jano:

1Co_14:33  For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

I cannot stop laughing at your stupidity.
You keep parroting nonesense in the pretext that you Are making sense.
Jesus was God the word and were is it written that God the word has no beginning?

The beginning reffered to in John1:1 , is the beginning of the World not the beginning of God, because God does not have a beginning.
But right before God decided to make the World he first beget his Son Jesus.

If you have sense slowly read the Bible verses below.

Proverbs 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 8:24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: 8:26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: 8:28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: 8:29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: 8:30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; 8:31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

This proverbs 8:22 mirrors John 1:1 both talks about Jesus been by the side of God while God created all things
it also shows that Jesus was begotten by God,
You claim that the word has no beginning is totally childish thinking.

Emusan:
If you understand it this way, then no need for the below question...

but Clarity sake...I'll address the question in short period.




Any Christian who says "The Father" (Note: I used Father here instead of God as you did) is the same PERSON as Jesus Christ vis-a-vis doesn't understand scripture well.



In the Old Testament, nobody talks about Son of God or the person of Holy Spirit as we do today simply because the New Testament writers shield more light about the co-existing and co-eternal of the Three which would have resulted to Polytheistic view if Trinity doctrine wasn't adopted.

Now, to your question:
But because of the redemption role Christ is still playing until fulfillment of the whole promises of God.

The Bible recorded some kind of revelation about the presence of the Father in heaven but the only person the Bible says we'll see is Jesus Christ till every process is complete and "God MAY BE ALL IN ALL" 1 Corinthian 15:28

Adam Clarke puts it this way "...then the son Son, as being man and Messiah, shall cease to exercise any distinct dominion and GOD BE ALL IN ALL: there remaining no longer any distinction in the PERSONS of the glorious TRINITY...."

This is one of the verses many people who argue against Trinity don't understand.

My humble submission!

Crap. this is mere human reasoning not God's word.
So God and his twin are script playing father and son till all evil are eliminated?

solite3:
I am not forcing any meaning into God's word, I say it as it is.



Now where does the bible state the father gave life to Jesus, is there?
You said how can Jesus be equal with the father? The bible is replete with the fact that Jesus is equal to the father.

John 5:23
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Interesting isn't? That the father commands everybody to give equal honor that they accord the father to Jesus.
Are you going to disobey the father? This is the father saying that the Son is equal to him.
Also see

Hebrews 1:6
And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

The father command all angels to worship Jesus.

If Jesus is not equal to the father, why would the father command all angels to worhip Jesus and all men to give the same honor that they give the father to the Son.




@ bolded this has contradicted your claim

If Jesus has same nature with God
What are the characters of that nature?
1.That God cannot be created,
he is eternal i.e He does not have a beginning neither an end

2.He is Almighty by nature, He can do all things

3. He by nature is to be worshipped

4.He is Omnipresent, Omnipotent ( which is the same as Almighty) and Omniscience

Among all other characters

If Jesus has the same nature as God it means Jesus is also
Uncreated, have no beginning or ending
Almighty
Omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscience
He is to be worshipped among all other characters of God.

Mind you Jesus has the exact nature of God.

Hebrews described Jesus as the express ( complete and perfect) image of God.
If Jesus is less than God then, He could no longer be the express image of God.

Hebrews 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

really.
John 5:26
For as the Father has life in himself; so has he given to the
Son to have life in himself;

You are just running after shadow.
There are hundreds of Bible verses that says Jesus is not Co-equal with God you ignore them and come here to type inconsistent points.

You heard that I
said to you, 'I go
away, and I will
come to you.' If
you loved me, you
would have
rejoiced because I
go to the Father,
for the Father is
greater than I
( John 14:28

Was Jesus drunk when he said this?

Why did God say he beget Jesus?

I guess you are older than your father since you and your father have the same nature?

johnw47:
no truly it's you that's confused, fess up, Father God is not "a god" as you said, but "the God"

duh one, i'm not trying hard to prove anything
people say foolish things and i sometimes reply to them
which is what i am doing now with you

i will leave the rest of your confusion for you to ponder

Still not making any sense.

johnw47:
laugh, oh mightily confused one, you say you are not a jw
i recommend you join them, putting the goats with the goats
they don't understand things of the Spirit either

once again:
God(Father) never bought the Word into existancw because the Word always existed in God

God(Father) begat the word, bought Him out of Himself

You need to attend English classes.
Weather he was existing inside God or not the most important fact is that it was God that beget Jesus, it was God that fathered (mind my grammar)Jesus, it was God that gave Jesus life and his own existence.

Janosky:
Brain scrubbed Pharisee,your father begat you therefore you and your father is one human being.

Johnw lying Pharisee who says Jesus is not the same God the Father but him Pharisee brain shut down.
"God is a Spirit" , is a single spiritual being.
Dubious Pharisee had to type "not two gods " whereas he can NEVER prove where JWs called YHWH "two gods"
Mumu Pharisee.

I wonder how some people reason, it was God that gave us all the language we have so why will God tell us he beget Jesus and men will be doubting God like God is learning English for the first time.

These are strong words that are used to describe Jesus that you cannot ignore.

First creation
First born of all creations. Colossians 1:15,proverbs 8:22
Only BEGOTTEN Son John 3:16
Son of God
Son by Inheritance John 16:15
Sent by God John 17:3
come out from the Father John 16:27
A prophet of God isaiah 53:11,luke 24:19
A servant of God. Isaiah42:1

Jesus own words my father is greater than me. John 14:28
You heard that I
said to you, 'I go
away, and I will
come to you.' If
you loved me, you
would have
rejoiced because I
go to the Father,
for the Father is
greater than I

I wonder how people will see this words and many others I could not list and still want to force their own meaning on this words like Jesus and his father are learning how to speak and talk.

rosy1992:
Jesus Christ said I am in my father and my father is in me in John 14 : 11, this depicts the equality . Both the father and son are one.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

You can see from the Bible verse above that both Father and Son are separate beings

secondly Jesus said this in the book John 17:23

I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in
one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and
hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
John 14:20
At that day you shall know that I am in my Father, and you in
me, and I in you.


From this verses we can deduce that Jesus meant unity(oneness) and not that he and his father are one person.

If trinity was true using your (One) logic than it means God is a Billionity, but that is not possible becos Jesus in those two verses I listed is talking about Christains been in him and him in them and both been in God he was talking in terms of oneness or unity of the divine family.

malvisguy212:
Can we really understand the trinity ? We can't , how can a finite being understand an infinite God ? Our responsibility is to believe what God has said about Himself.

The old testament prove the fact that there is ONLY ONE GOD. Isreal is surrounded with many nation that worship different gods. God people needed to know that there is only ONE GOD:

Deut. 6:4
"Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God is ONE LORD"

This verse give two details about God. 1. The nature of God (God's ONENESS) and 2. Jehovah is the only God. The old testament emphasizing of the UNITY of God, is not silent with respect to the PLURALITY of God's Nature. The old testament lay the groundwork for the new testament revelation.

The hebrew word for God is Elohim, plural in
form."In the beginning God CREATED" (Genesis
1:1). God is the omnipotent CREATOR! The
name for "God" found in Genesis 1:1 is the
Hebrew word "ELOHIM" the ending of this word
(..IM) is a plural ending,(more than one) just like
our english language "S" is the ending word for
plural. For example:

1. CHERUBIM (Exodus 25:18-20)
2. SERAPHIM (Isaiah 6:2,6)
3. TERAPHIM(judges 17:5)

The words end with IM , they are plural in form.
In Genesis 1:1 the verb "CREATED" is a
SINGULAR verb, and it means "HE (singular)
CREATED." Two answers may be given to the
question, "Who created the heavens and the
earth?".

1. HE DID (singular) because the verb means
"HE CREATED." The verb does not mean
"THEY CREATED."
2. GOD DID (plural) because the word
ELOHIM is a plural word!

So, there is a sense in which God the Creator is
singular. There is only ONE God and He is the
Creator. There is no other God. It is also true
that there is a sense in which He is plural. This
brings us to our next point:

PLURAL UNITY OF GOD.
Deuteronomy 6:4 says: "Hear, O Israel: The
LORD [singular] our God [ELOHIM-plural] is ONE
Lord."

God is Love, if God is two, our Love will be
DIVIDED and one will not Get our full devotion.
So YES, God is ONE and He deserve our Full
attention.

The Hebrew word"ONE"found in Deuteronomy 6:4
is a word that can be used to describe a
plural (composite) UNITY (a unity made up of
more than one component). For Example in
Genesis 11:5 "Behold, the PEOPLE IS ONE." The
people (plural) at Babel were united together as
ONE. It was a UNITY, but it was made up of
many people (a plural unity).

Another example is in Genesis 2:24 where the
same word "one" is found: "Therefore shall a
man leave his father and his mother and shall
cleave unto his wife and they shall be one flesh."
Here we have a plural unity. It is a ONENESS
made up of two persons" a husband and a wife"
They (plural) shall be one (singular) flesh. The
two are one.

Just as Genesis 11:5 speaks of a plural unity
(many people being ONE), and just as Genesis
2:24 speaks of a plural unity (two people being
ONE), so also Deuteronomy 6:4 describes God
who is a PLURAL UNITY. Later we will learn that
this plural unity is actually a TRI-UNITY.

In Isaiah 6:8 , we have a threefold
declaration of God's holiness: "And one cried
unto another, and said, HOLY, HOLY, HOLY is
the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of His
glory" (Isaiah 6:3). we learn elsewhere in
Scripture, namely that 1) God the Father is Holy
(John 17:11); 2) God the Son is Holy (Heb. 7:26
and compare Luke 1:35); 3) God the Holy Spirit
is Holy (as His very Name declares)

In Genesis , God is repeatedly mention as the
creator, and in Genesis 1:2 we saw how the Holy
spirit is actively involve " was moving in the face
of the water. And in john 1:1 we understand that
the Word (jesus) was God and everything were
created through Him.

Does Elohim Mean Trinity?
Many people today who believe in the Trinity teaching, tend to
use the word 'Elohim' referring to God in Genesis 1:26, and
say this is the Trinity, because the verse says 'let us make
man in our image'. So because this verse uses the words 'us'
and 'our', and the word 'Elohim' means plural, they
automatically think that this is talking about the Trinity - 3 in 1
God.
But we will prove on this page that the word Elohim does not
support the Trinity teaching.
First of all, when a Hebrew would read the word 'Elohim' in
reference to God, they would never understand it as a literal
'plural God'. Whenever the Jews read about God, they would
always have the understanding that the true God is only one
God, not two or three. Take a look at these verses from
Deuteronomy and Mark:
Deuteronomy 6:4 ...'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one
Lord .'
Mark 12:28-29,32 ...'And one of the scribes came, and having
heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had
answered them well, asked him, which is the first
commandment of all? And Jesus answered him, the first of all
the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one
Lord . And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast
said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but
HE '
So the Hebrew mind had a firm understanding that there is
only one God, not three. And this is confirmed again in John
8:54, where Jesus said ... 'If I honour myself, my honour is
nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say,
that he is your God .'
So the question remains, why does the word Elohim mean
'plural' when referring to God? Well, it doesn't actually mean
plural in regards to persons . It's meaning in English is 'plural
of majesty'. It does not denote more than one. It actually
denotes 'greatness' and 'majesty'. And we can prove this
from the scriptures :
Exodus 7:1 ...'And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made
thee a god [ELOHIM] to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall
be thy prophet.'
Did God tell Moses that He was going to make him a 'trinity'
to Pharaoh? Of course not. God is telling Moses that He was
going to make him 'GREAT' in the eyes of Pharaoh. Which is
what the word Elohim really means ... 'greatness' and
'majesty'. Look at how this is revealed in 1 Chronicles 29.
1 Chronicles 29:10-11 ...'Wherefore David blessed the Lord
before all the congregation: and David said, Blessed be thou,
Lord God [Elohim] of Israel our father , for ever and ever. Thine,
O Lord is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the
victory, and the majesty : for all that is in the heaven and in the
earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O Lord, and thou art
exalted as head above all.'
THIS is the 'plurality' of Elohim. It is a 'plurality of majesty',
just as David confirmed above. And it belongs to God the
Father, as 'head above all' - even the head of Christ (1
Corinthians 11:3)
Now did God make Moses 'great' unto Pharaoh? Yes, the
Bible confirms it in Exodus 11 ... Exodus 11:3 ...'And the Lord
gave the people favour in the sight of the Egyptians. Moreover
the man Moses was very great in the land of Egypt, in the
sight of Pharaoh's servants, and in the sight of the people.'
So as you can see, the word Elohim does not in any way
support the Trinity doctrine. If we use the Bible to interpret
itself, then we can see the truth. And the truth is, our God, the
Father, is ONE God , which the Bible confirms a number of
times. And Jesus Christ is the Son of the One true living God.
Take a look at the following interesting quote concerning
Elohim and the Trinity:
"... it is
certain that the Jewish church held to no such doctrine. Says
Mr. Summerbell, 'A friend of mine who was present in a New
York synagogue, asked the Rabbi for an explanation of the
word 'Elohim'. A Trinitarian clergyman who stood by, replied,
'Why, that has reference to the three persons in the Trinity,'
when a Jew stepped forward and said he must not mention
that word again , or they would have to compel him to leave the
house; for it was not permitted to mention the name of any
strange god in the synagogue." (J.N.Loughborough, Review
and Herald, Nov.5, 1861)
The Jews, whom the scriptures came through, from God, knew
exactly that our God is ONE God , not three. And there can be
no doubt that 'Elohim' refers to God the Father, who is the
ONE true God, and it does not support in any way the false
Trinity doctrine. But why does Genesis 1:26 use the words
'us' and 'our'? This is really simple and straight forward. The
word 'Elohim' refers to God the Father, because it was God the
Father who spoke those words. But who is He speaking to?
He is speaking to Jesus Christ His Son! This is why God
says, let 'us' make man in 'our' image. It is God the Father,
speaking to Jesus Christ. Let's confirm this with the following
inspired quote:
"After the earth was created, and the beasts upon it, the Father
and Son carried out their purpose, which was designed before
the fall of Satan, to make man in their own image. They had
wrought together in the creation of the earth and every living
thing upon it. And now God says to his Son, Let us make man
in our image ." (Spiritual Gifts, Vol.3, p.33)
Notice, there is no mention of any 'third god'. Just the Father
and Son. With the Father being THE GOD.
Friend, God has clearly revealed to us the truth concerning His
Godhead. And He has clearly shown in His Word that the
trinity doctrine is false. The word 'Elohim' as you can see
does not support the trinity in any way. Please seek the truth
on this, as eternal life is based on believing and knowing the
TRUE God, and Jesus Christ whom God sent to save us.
John 17:3 ...'And this is life eternal, that they might know thee
the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.'
For a lot more information about the true Godhead, the Holy
Spirit and the false Trinity doctrines

Maximus69:
Wow!

So you're not one of us!

Well you can never find anything like TRINITY in the Bible, because the author is just only ONE God! Deuteronomy 6:4 compared to Mark 12:28-30

Jesus is God's firstborn son{first and foremost creature directly made by God himself} just as Adam was the firstborn son of God{in the flesh}, Jesus was the first spirit creature God made! Proverbs 8:22 compared to Luke 3:38

God's holy spirit serves as an "Active Force".
For instance, each part of the human body serves different purposes:
Eyes~ Seeing
Mouth~ Speaking, Eating
Nose~ Breathing
Hands~ Working
Legs~ Movements and so on.

God as a spirit uses his active force to carry out whatever he wishes.
©Before creation it's only his active force that's moving here and there! Genesis 1:1-2

©In Egypt he used his active force to stop all other spirit forces that's enabling the magic practicing priests to imitate his miraculous signs before Pharaoh! Exodus 8:16-19

©God's active force enabled Balaam's donkey to speak! Numbers 22:28

©Samson was killing thousands of Philistines because God's active force was energizing him! Judges 16:28

©Elijah ran ahead of horses as God's active force enabled him! 1Kings 18:46

©God anointed his only begotten son at his baptism by means of the active force! Matthew 3:16-17

©After the establishment of Christianity God bless the Christians by using his active force to help them to accomplish unimaginable things!
Act 2:1-4, 3:1-8, 5:15

So the Holy Spirit is NOT a person like Jehovah and Jesus, it's just what God uses to accomplish his purposes.

Before his death, Stephen looked up into the heavens and he saw just two persons, God and Jesus standing by God's right hand! Act 7:56

But where is the holy spirit? Well it's just the force God used to enable Stephen see what ordinary eyes can't perceive! Act 7:55

God bless you!

I totally agree with you sir.

Maximus69:
The fact remains that God is directing just one and only religious group with his Spirit today, and this group is no other than "Jehovah's Witnesses"!

When others see us go out to preach and teach our responsive neighbours, they're puzzled and the feel like proving they're also Christians too.

But since God's holy spirit is not working with them, the zeal they had which was motivated by envy soon cool off and each of them returns to their materialistic pursuit.

There is nothing in their brains to preach or teach! True Christians are supposed to be the salt of the earth, meaning whoever listens to our message must feel drawn to the wonderful promises of God!

But what do misinformed Churchgoers have in their brains to preach? "Heaven is real and Hell is real" just as if all the false religions on the surface of this planet aren't having the same thought!

TRINITY is the only thing they will continue to eulogies as if the word TRINITY could be found anywhere in the Bible! Nothing worthwhile is in their brains! Just let them have a one on one discussion with an atheist, that's when you'll see them causing someone who finds it difficult to flow with their gibberish!

So when they see us zealously and industriously doing what only the spirit of God can engineer humans (who are loaded down with anxieties of life and Adamic sin) can endeavour, they feel like criticizing us since we're the only group obviously doing the WORK Jesus commissioned, and we're always telling them both in words and deeds that "our God totally differs from their God"!

I admire certain teachings and doctrines of Jehovah witness but am a not a member.
My faith or membership of any Church should not matter in this issue what should matter is weather what I have written is the truth or not

solite3:
yes Jesus is not God the Father but God all the same.
Jesus has same capacity as the Father and the Holy Spirit but has a different role which I think is based on the personality of the trinity.
God the Father is the Authority of God
God the Son is the word, the one who makes enacts the decisions of God.
God the Holy Spirit is the one who brings it to pass.
All three are in agreement in every way.




The Father is greater than Jesus because Jesus himself was made even lower than the angels in its earthly life.


Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

You are trying to force your own meaning into God's word
Thd Father is greater than Jesus at anytime weather in Heaven or when Jesus is on Earth.
mind you it was the father that gave Jesus life ,Power and authority how can he be equal to the father?
you people are making this thing more complex than it should.

God has a son who is like God in nature but cannot be equal with God for he has a beginning while God does not.

Can one be greater than his father by age and authority?

johnw47:
my belief is similar except God(Father) didn't bring Jesus into existance 
but bought Him out of Himself, begat Him
God is a Spirit, the word is of that same ever existing Spirit

wisdom the Word always existed in God

You are confusing yourself, what is the difference from don't bring Jesus into existence and he beget Jesus?

johnw47:
Jesus is not the Son of "a god" as you say, but is the Son of "the God"

you said they are not two god's, and then you say, a god is the son of a god

you sure are confused

You are the one confusing yourself you are trying hard to prove what you cannot.
Let me tell you the word God is not the name of the father the word God or god is a generic name for any deity

Satan is a god likewise Demons so Jesus bearing the name God does not make him equal to the father.
The name of God is Jehovah or I AM that I AM this two names belong to only God of the Bible.

2 Corinthians 4:4
whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not
believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who
is the image of God, should shine on them.

johnw47:
your dad begat you, you and your dad are of the human spirit

Father God begat the Word, the Word and his Father are of the God Spirit, God is a Spirit

not two spirits - not two gods as false jw's believe

True.
They are not two God's.
It is simply one God who has a Son called Jesus who by virtue of been the son of a God automatically is also a God but not in the same capacity and authority like his father.

Here is Jesus own words.

John 14:28
“Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come
again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I
said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. ”

johnw47:
Christ is not the same God of Himself, oh most confused one

hint, two persons, one God, as in john 1:1 and many other scriptures showing Jesus to be God

True.
My take is that God is one, who exist eternally and at a certain time he brought forth his son Jesus into existence this was before the World and every other thing including the Angels and Satan were made .
proverbs 8:22

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and
that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones,
or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were
created by him, and for him:
Colossians 1:16
►

malvisguy212:
in Hebrew chapter one, it was God the father speaking here,
Now about the angels He says: “He makes
His angels winds, His servants flames of fire.”
8 But about the SON He says: “Your throne, O
GOD, endures forever and ever, and justice is
the scepter of Your kingdom.

who called the Jesus the son ? and what was the speaker called Him ? God!! does it mean that the speaker of that verse is leas God ?

Jesus is NEVER the father, He is the son. on His earthly ministry, the father is in Heaven ( the Lord's prayer prove it, " OUR FATHER WHO AT IN HEAVEN)

This does not prove that Jesus is Co-equal with God.
We all bear our fathers name does that make us equal to our father in age, authority and power.

Do you know that born again Christaintity and Angels are called gods?
now does that make us equal in power and authority with God?

If born again Christains can be called gods than how much more Jesus who has God's divine nature in him the only BEGOTTEN of God, of cos he is God by the reason of him been beget by a God but that does not mean he is equal in power and authority with God.

Psalm 82:6
I said, “You are gods, And all of you are children of the Most
High.

Maximus69:
My friend stop asking for further proof, you're one of Jehovah's Witnesses!

Anytime your oneness is spotted, it always carry the same blueprint.
©It's only your organization that's speaking with one accord! Romans 15:5-6, 1Corinthians 1:10, Ephesians 4:3, Philippians 2:2 compared to John 17:20-23
©It's only your organization that's efficacious in developing thought provoking and convincing talks! Acts 26:24-28
©It's only your organization that's known globally as totally different from all other religionists! Act 24:4
©It's only your organization that's vilified globally even though most people can't explain why? Matthew 10:22, John 17:14-16

On top of it all your profile name is blueAgent, so if i arrest you now and start interrogating you, how are you going to deny that you belong to that single global family of peace loving worshippers having that same blueprint?

So you're guilty as charged!

For your information am not a Jehovah's Witnesses.
You have not given me any reason or proof of the trinity doctrine in the Bible

malvisguy212:
let me repeat myself again. the bible teaching of the tri-unty of God is as a family RELATIONSHIP, the Father given authority to the son, this by no mean make the son a less God .in office, is the President Greater than you ? yes, but in nature is he BETTER than you ? NO.

in revelation 3:12 He is speaking as God and He is submitting to the WILL OF THE FATHER.

So in a nutshell you are saying that Jesus Co-equal to God but decided to play the role of a son?

johnw47:
i twisted nothing oh lying false jw, that's why you couldn't show where i do the twist
but then you false jw's are natural false accusers and everything that your father and god the devil is



no, God(Father) is the head of Christ(Son) oh know nothing

You failed to tell me how God is the head of Christ and still Christ is the same God of himself
does it make sense to you?

johnw47:
God(Father-Spirit) begat the Word-bought Him forth, so the Word is that same Eternal Spirit that is God(Father)
the word only had a beginning as a seperate person to God(Father)
God's Word-Wisdom always existed in God

I somehow agree with you but am having a little doubt or concerns on your statement that " the word is the same eternal spirit that is God" can you elaborate on it pls.

malvisguy212:
listen, Jesus calling God His father does not
imply inferiority, but a difference in roles, when your son called you father does it make him less human ? not at all. so it is with Jesus calling God, My God”.
He is not saying that the He is less “God” because the Father is His God. Rather, He is demonstrating that He is still under the authority of His Father God. we also learn that the son directed the holy spirit under the authority of the father in John 15:26.

this has always been the argument of the trinitarian that “When all things are subjected to Him, then the
Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him , so that God may be all in all.” this does not make the son less God

No one said the Son is less God just like no man is less human than his parents.
The fact or truth that we want people to understand is that Jesus is not the twin of God neither does he have same authority or power like his father except given to him by his father.

If you read proverbs 8:22 you will understand that God brought Jesus into existence which trinitarians deny by claiming Jesus is as old as his father.

remember that God beget Jesus and their is no where it is written that God himself is begotten.
BEGOTTEN
be-got'-'-n (yaladh; "to bear," "bring forth," "beget"; denotes the
physical relation of either parent to a child,

A somewhat old fashioned adjective, begotten is the past
participle of the verb beget, which means to father or produce
as offspring. You might recognize this word from John 3:16,
one of the most popular and most often quoted bible verses:
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but
have everlasting life."
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/begotten

HedwigesMaduro:
There is a solution to all these arguments. Jesus Christ is God by nature and authority given to him by the Almighty God who is the Father. Jesus is definitely not the Almighty Father. We can get this in the bible through this way we answer these questions scripturally; Does Jesus Christ have a god? Does YHWH Almighty have a God? Thanks God bless.

I Totally agree with you and this what Jesus taught his disciples.
John 14:2
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I
would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.


Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and spoke unto them, saying, All power is
given unto me in heaven and in earth.

johnw47:
Rev 3:12  Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


lying pharisee™ deceiver false jw Janosky/OneJ

as for me, i won't twist rev 3:12 or any scripture, like you do oh most dishonest one


God the Word - the Lord Jesus Christ will make him that overcometh a pillar in the temple of His Father God
and he shall go out no more, and God the Word Jesus Christ will write upon him the name of His Father God
and the name of the city of His Father God which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down from Heaven from His
Father God, and God the Word Jesus Christ will write upon him His new name

nothing difficult there, now how does satan and his mob make you see that verse, oh so great know nothing

of course you lie and say that the Word - Jesus Christ is not God but is "a god"

you say god had a god with him, that's two god's oh polytheist false jw
you say god created the world through another god, that's two god's oh polytheist false jw
you say father is almighty god and jesus is mighty god, that's two god's oh polytheist false jw

Father and the Word are two persons, one God
Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

truly there was no other god(a god) with God:
Deu_32:39  See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me:


truly the Father is God
truly the Word is God
truly the Holy Spirit is God

ask for scripture on any of that, get to it now, oh most duh one

You see how you twist your explanation without Bible verses or facts to prove it.

1 Corinthians 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is
Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head
of Christ is God.

So God is the head of himself in your logic?

malvisguy212:
Peter called Him ,Lord, did He reject it ? why did the Jews wanted to stone Him ? the people He was delivering His message to understand what He mean, they just don't believed in Him just like you.

The word Lord means Master and of cos Jesus was the master of his disciples.
David and the ancient kings were also called Lord, does it mean that David is now God based on your logic?

Genesis 44:18 Then Judah came near unto him, and said, Oh my lord, let thy servant, I pray thee, speak a word in my lord's ears, and let not thine anger burn against thy servant: for thou art even as Pharaoh.

TVSA:
the most confusing doctrine

True, even the trinitarians cannot explain what they claim is the trinity.

malvisguy212:
thank you. they are promoting doctrines of the devil.

Prove it?

Martin Luther was labeled a heretic becos he refused to accept false teachings and doctrines but we are all witness to the truth he stood for.

Janosky:
1) "in the NAME of the Father, and
of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit," so called one God is simply Sophistry built on FRAUD.
In the name of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob OR: Tom, Dick and Harry , these 3 names are one person..... Lols

@2) Show us proof.

John 17:18.
18" As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world."

Can your brain see that Jesus Christ is inferior to God as his disciples were inferior to Jesus?

"Godhead" is a FRAUD, use Greek lexicon of Colossians 2:9 to confirm it.

** Finally,
Revelation 3:12 King James Version (KJV)
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar
in the temple of my God, and he shall go no
more out: and I will write upon him the
name of my God, and the name of the city of
my God, which is new Jerusalem, which
cometh down out of heaven from my God:"


Come and twist Revelation 3:12......

Bro God bless you.

malvisguy212:
Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,
baptizing them in the NAME of the Father, and
of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,

NAME not names. witnesses to deity of Christ are many, yes, Peter called Him God, did Jesus rebuke him ? the prophet Micah say His origin is UNKNOWN ( Micah 5:2) Every attribute that belongs to the Father belongs to the Son: "All things that the Father hath are
mine" (John 16:15).

To know Jesus Christ is to know God (John 14:8-9). To see Jesus Christ is to see God: "he that hath seen Me hath seen the Father" (John 14:9). Christ is the "image of the invisible God" (Col. 1:15), "the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His Person" (Heb. 1:3). "In Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" (Col. 2:9). All men must honor the Son just as they honor the Father (John 5:23). We honor the Father as God, and we must honor the Son in the same way. The Son of God is not honored when His deity is denied.

How is this a proof that Jesus is the same as God.
So when people respect and honour Buhari's Children it means the Children are our president. can you see your logic?

Bruno3000:
Seconded sir

Thanks Bro.

bingbagbo:
Jw cultist spotted

Great is the mystery of Godliness, God was manifested in the Flesh

1 Timothy 3:16

I am a TRinitarian, Jesus Christ is God Almighty
God in flesh

There is no Jehovah in the Bible

There is YHWH, who revealed himself to man as Christ, because apart from YHWH there is no saviour. Halleluyah

Do you have proof of that in the Bible?

The trinity doctrine teaches that God the Father, the Son and the Holyspirit are equal and one and the same God.
   Although a very popular and widely accepted doctrine among christains the trinity doctrine is unbiblical and not in accordance with the word of God. The word Trinity does not appear in the Bible neither was such doctrine taught by the Apostles or known to the early Christains.
The trinity doctrine was instituted by men at the Council of Nicaea in AD325 and at Council of Constantinople in AD381.
The trinity doctrine has it's origin in pagan Sun god worship that was started by Nimrod and his wife.

Who is God and Jesus?
The Bible is clear on the identity of God and his Son, Jesus they are 2 different beings or persons
Although one in unity and purpose, their relationship is that of father and Son.
The Apostles always identified God as the father who has neither beginning or end ,who alone has immortality,all power and authority  they also identified and distinguished  Jesus as the only begotten Son of God  and not God the Father himself here is an  example.
2John1:3  Grace be with you, mercy and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
The identity of Jesus was well known to the discples of Jesus
Peter  in Matt 16:16,Martha the sister of  Lazarus, the  Centurion man,the high priest and many others  including the   Demons all identified Jesus as the son of God (remember Demons are fallen Angels)matthew8:29.
It is important that we understand who Jesus is, as  Jesus himself was interested in knowing whom people said he was. Luke 9:18

All through the Bible the personality of God and Jesus has been established and clearly stated.
It will be illogical for Jesus while he was on Earth to teach that he was sent by his father if  he himself was the father.
The question is who sent Jesus?
who did Jesus pray to when he was on the cross or when he raised Lazarus from the grave?Who was Jesus pleading to  to take away the cup? John 12:27
Whose will was Jesus referring to when he said father not my will but yours, mark 14:36
The evidence shows that Jesus was not the Father acting as the Son here on Earth but was the Son of God sent by God to the Earth to die as a ransom for man,John 6:38

Jesus, Son of God

The trinity doctrine teaches a 3in 1 god, that there are 3 but equal gods.
It denies the word of God that says Jesus is the BEGOTTEN Son of God. the same way a biological father proceeds his son so also God the Father proceeds his son, Jesus  Christ.
The Bible refers to Jesus as the first born of all creations Colossians 1:15,proverbs 8:22-end,Rev 3:14.
Jesus was brought into existence  at a certain time by his father before the World was created. Acts 13:33, God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

John5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; so it was God that gave Jesus life and not Jesus having his own life independently as claimed by trinitarians.
here are Jesus own words on his origin and existence.
Proverbs 8:22.
Unlike the Angels and other created beings who were made by the hand of  God, Jesus proceeded or came out  from his father John 8:42,16:27&28,17:8
He had the very nature , image and substance of his father, God. which no other created being has. Hebrews 1:4 Being MADE so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?  1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Note: Angels are sons of God by creation,born again Christains are sons of God by adoption (Romans 8:14-15) but Jesus Christ is the Son of God by inheritance Heb 1:4,

Are they Equal?

The trinity teaches that Jesus and the Holyspirit are co-equal with God but the Bible is abundantly clear that the son is not Co-equal with God.
No where in the Bible did Jesus  ever call himself God or equate himself to the father rather he reiterated the fact that he was sent by the father to do the will of the father and that the one who sends another is greater than the one sent.John13:16-20.
John 17:13, Matthew 10:40,John 10:18.
Rather than claim equality with God as fasely  taught by the trinity doctrine Jesus declares that his father is greater than him in John 14:28,he also calls his father his God Matt 27:46,John 20:17, here are some other verses to clearify this point
1Corinthains11:3,Colossians 1:14-19,John 5:19-47,John 5:19 & 5:20,John 5:27, Isaiah 53:11,Isaiah 42:1,Isaiah 49:7 Luke 24:19,
Philippians 2:5
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 2:6 Who, being in the form of God(nature of God, of cos he was born by God so he will bear God's nature), thought it not robbery to be equal with God:  2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men :2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name.

God Honours his Son.

After the ressurection and Ascension of Jesus to Heaven  God exalted Jesus and gave him a name above every other name Philippians 2:9.
It will be illogical for God to exalts and give power and authority to Jesus if he was co- equal with God and already had those privileges.Ephesians 1:20-23, Mark 12:36.
The Bible also teaches that at the end of the great controversy between good and evil when all power and principalities have been subdued for the sake of Jesus. Than Jesus will subject all things including himself to God 1Corinthians 15:28.

Who is the Holyspirit.

The Holyspirit is not a person or being as taught by the trinitarians but the the Holyspirit is the spirit of God and his Son Jesus, Ephesians 4:30, 1Thessalonians 4:8,God is a spirit who has a spirit which is his  mind,will,purpose,power,  and presence Genesis 1:2, Zachariah 4:6, 1peter 1:1.
It is this spirit  that God sends to us that dwells in us and enables us to do his will,Romans 8:9&11, 1john4:13, Isaiah 63:11, 1Corinthains 3:16, 1 Corinthians 12:8-11,John 7:39,14:17, Ezeikel 36:27.
Just as we showed earlier that Jesus did nothing of his own will or desire but that of his father so also the Holy spirit can only speak and show what it is instructed to say . This is evidence that it is not a being Co-equal with God that has it's own power and will.
There are few verses  that have been taken out of context and are used by  the trinitarians to promote their false doctrines
E.g is that the Bible refers to the Holy spirit as HE this does not prove  anything because  there are examples in the Bible where non- living things are personified or expressed with words like he or his examples are in proverbs 1:20,7:4,8:1,9:1where wisdom and knowledge are reffered to as he,his,she this also applies to the Holy spirit.
The Holy Spirit is likened  to a gift
In Luke 11:13,God pours out his Holy spirit Acts 2:18.
The identity and function of the Holy Spirit will be treated in subsequent articles.

Implications of the Trinity doctrine.

This doctrine has severe implications and consequences as it teaches that Jesus is not the literal Son of God,that Jesus is the same age as the father and has always existed along side him but this will make them twins and not a real  Father and Son it also teaches that the holyspirit is a being  Co-equal and  co-eternal making them triplets.

Thus the trinity doctrine denies that both the father and son are two different persons thus it denies their personality or persons.

Apostle Paul taught Christains that the Antichrist is anyone or teaching that denies Jesus is the son of God and thus denies the father and son  1John2:22-23,1john 4:3
It distorts who God says he is.
The doctrine of trinity also lends credance  or promotes the Catholic teaching that Mary is the mother of God  since it claims Jesus is   God and Co-equal to God. It is not surprising that this trinity doctrine was instituted by the usual suspects the Catholic Church and they claim it is the foundation on which all other of there teachings is based on.

Note:The angel that delivered the message  to Virgin  Mary  told her that the  child will be called( the Son of God) and not God. Nothing stops God from describing Jesus as God or his twin or avatar, rather he  used the adjective SON of God to distinguish him from the Father.

Conclusion.
The trinity doctrine cannot be proved in the Bible neither does it have any divine origin or inspiration.
It is one of those man made doctrines that have crept into Christaintity. it is unacceptable to God and contracdicts God's word about himself.
A lot of lies have been sold to us as Bible doctrines which are not Biblical, I urge the readers to do more research on this topic and to diligently search the word of God  2 Timothy 2:15, just like Paul said that we should prove all things through the scripture, rightfully dividing the word of God and not depending on men or some few Bible verses that have been lifted out of context inorder to suit a preconcieved  belief or idea.1Thessalonians 5:21

Thank you.



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