₦airaland Forum

johnw47:
trinity is three persons Father, Son and Holy Spirit being the one God

but this confused blinded false accuser says trinity is Jesus and the Holy Spirit being the same person as the Father, laugh

How can God be father and son at the same time?

johnw47:
this blinded confused lying beelzebubAgent
like false jw's cannot stop lying, it's why he sides with them
birds of a feather



2Co_4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

1Co_14:33  For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Joh 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

But the Bible calls anyone who denies that Jesus is not the literal son of God an ANTI- CHRIST.

johnw47:
trinity is three persons Father, Son and Holy Spirit being the one God

but this confused blinded false accuser says trinity is Jesus and the Holy Spirit being the same person as the Father, laugh

How can God be father and son at the same time?

johnw47:
this blinded and confused beelzebubAgent thinks that trinity
doesn't believe that Jesus came in the flesh, ha ha
such a know nothing of no understanding, and false accuser like satan:

Rev 12:10  And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Anti-Christ.

johnw47:
this blinded and confused beelzebubAgent also thinks that trinity doesn't believe that Jesus is the Son of God, laugh
it comprehends nothing

So explain to me what trinity is?

solite3:
you see your problem? You dont even know what Trinity is you just gobble anything watch tower throw at you
Trinity is never three beings.

There is no argument or evidence for whatever you claim trinity is.

solite3:
If we must take the word ' begotten son' literally then it would mean God gave birth to a son and not God created a son.
But yet same Jehovah witness do not take it literally but figuratively to mean created, isnt that breaking your own rules?

Yes that what in wrote in the article, God gave birth to Jesus,

The BEGOTTEN should be understood literally that why Jesus is called Son.

Am not a JW I cannot speak on what I don't know.

solite3:
The word translated as beginning means Arche
Which can either be translated as
1. The ruler
2.first
3. Origin
The word arche can somehow be interpreted as ruler
It cannot be interpreted as first created the book of John has already silenced any notion that christ is part of the creation.
The most accurate word be origin or source which agree with the other scriptures.

The new word translation is wrong to have interpreted Rev 3:14 as the first of the creation by God since John already told us that All things created was done by Christ.

And if you deny Jesus is the Son of God
and that God gave His literal Son then
you make God a liar and you do not
have eternal life. “He that believeth on
the Son of God has the witness in
himself: he that believeth not God has
made him a liar; because he believeth not
the record that God gave of his Son. And
this is the record, that God has given to
us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
He that has the Son has life; and he that
has not the Son of God has not life. ” 1
John 5:10-12
“But these are written, that you might
believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son
of God; and that believing you might have
life through his name . ” John 20:31

And so Scripture tells us that it is only by
acknowledging that Jesus is the Son of
God that we can be saved and have
access to the Father. And if you deny
Jesus is the literal Son of God, then it is
also impossible for God to be a literal
Father. So it denies both the Father and
the Son which is what John called
antichrist as it opposes Christ being the
true and literal Son of God. It denies that
it was the literal Son of God that came in
the flesh and died on the cross.

johnw47:
poor tormented and blinded lying mumu of no understanding
https://www.nairaland.com/5382917/trinity-doctrine-false-doctrine-it/7#81785581

ha ha, confusion and no understanding

+ lies and false accusing throughout

lying fool - who thinks he is a christians, sides with false jw's who believe that he and everyone except false jw's will be killed at armageddon, funny, but such is a fool

If you do not confess Jesus is the Son of
God then you are separated from God.
“Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is
the Son of God , God dwelleth in him, and
he in God. ” 1 John 4:15 . And again,
“Who is he that overcometh the world,
but he that believeth that Jesus is the
Son of God? ” 1 John 5:5

johnw47:
poor tormented and blinded lying mumu of no understanding
https://www.nairaland.com/5382917/trinity-doctrine-false-doctrine-it/7#81785581

ha ha, confusion and no understanding

+ lies and false accusing throughout

lying fool - who thinks he is a christians, sides with false jw's who believe that he and everyone except false jw's will be killed at armageddon, funny, but such is a fool

John 4:3 “And every spirit that
confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come
in the flesh is not of God: and this is that
spirit of antichrist, whereof you have
heard that it should come; and even now
already is it in the world. ”
2 John 1:7 “For many deceivers are
entered into the world, who confess not
that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
This is a deceiver and an antichrist. ”

[quote author=solite3 post=81987052]answer the question yourself can God be created?[/quo

Absurdities of trinity doctrine.

trinity teaches is that Jesus is the immortal
God but died, is the invisible God but
was seen, is the omnipotent God but
was strengthened by an angel, is the
omniscient God but did not know the
day of his return, is as great as His
Father but His Father is greater than He,
is equal with the Father and yet He is the
Father, is the Son but the same age as
the Father, is the Son who has a Father
and the God who has no Father, is the
begotten Son and the unbegotten God, is
very God and very man, came out from
Himself, prayed to Himself, gave power
to Himself, thanked Himself, bore
witness of Himself, went back to
Himself, sits at the right hand of
Himself, is His own Father and His own
Son, left Heaven and yet was there all
the time. There are many things which
are hard to understand in the Bible, but
you can be sure that God never expects
us to believe impossibilities.
Over and over again you hear it said that
the Gospel is so simple a child can
understand it. And I agree. But how can
that be the case with the teaching of the
trinity? Not only do children not
understand it, but our best theologians
cannot even explain it. However, the
thought that God sent His Son to this
earth to die for you and me is easy to
comprehend when we believe the simple
Bible statement that Jesus is truly the
Son of God! Not one of three mysterious
beings making up “one God.” How can
you possibly believe that Jesus is NOT
the begotten Son of the eternal Father
and then share John 3:16 with others in
the hope of inviting them to take part in
eternal salvation. Doesn't John 3:16
become a lie the moment you deny He is
a Son? A metaphor did not send a
metaphor to save us. A Father sent us
His Son to save us.
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten Son, that
whosoever believeth in him should not
perish, but have everlasting life. ”
2 John 1:3 “Grace be with you, mercy,
and peace, from God the Father, and from
the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the
Father, in truth and love. ”

solite3:
where was it written that Jesus was brought forth?
You twisting the meaning of begotten to mean what it does not?

The trinity doctrine says there are:
3 beings who are co-eternal
3 beings who are all immortal
3 beings who are all powerful, all
knowing etc.
3 beings who are worthy of worship and
praise
3 beings each acting a different role
So if all three members of the Godhead then they are script playing father and son ?

Paul is warning you.

Who is a liar but he that denieth that
Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that
denieth the Father and the Son .
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same
hath not the Father : but he that
acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father
also. ” 1 John 2:22-23
“And this is life eternal, that they might
know you the only true God, and Jesus
Christ, whom you have sent. ” John 17:3
“He that believeth on the Son has
everlasting life : and he that believeth not
the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of
God abideth on him. ” John 3:36
“But these are written, that you might
believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son
of God; and that believing you might have
life through his name . ” John 20:31

johnw47:
lying pharisee™ deceiver false jw Janosky/OneJ

you knocked yourself out, laugh


the phrases: "God the Son" and "God the Holy Ghost" are not in the bible so you believe it is not so
ha ha what duh's

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Heb 1:8  But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever:



Mat 12:31  Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

^^^ all sin can be forgiven, but not blasphemy against the Holy Ghost < the Holy Ghost clearly is God


Act 5:1  But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, 
Act 5:2  And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. 
Act 5:3  But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 
Act 5:4  Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

^^^ ananias didn't lie to men but to the Holy Ghost - he lied unto God



that's just some, there are many verses showing that the Word - the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit is God, if you want to see them again

None of this verses proves that Jesus or the Holyspirit is the same Person as God the Father .
principality and power: ”
2 Corinthians 11:3-4, 13-14 “But I fear,
lest by any means, as the serpent
beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your
minds should be corrupted from the
simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that
cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom
we have not preached, or if you receive
another spirit, which you have not
received, or another gospel, which you
have not accepted, you might well bear
with him. 13 For such are false apostles,
deceitful workers, transforming
themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is
transformed into an angel of light. ”

solite3:
Its clear you dont know what poetry is.
So if a a non living thing or a quality is given the quality of a person it really is a person right?
Lets see


Proverbs 8:1-2, 12 Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?
She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.
I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty invention.

The person who is talking identified herself as wisdom who is a She. Prophecies are not like that, in prophecy there is usually a break but not in proverb 8.
So is Jesus a she?
If you take proverb 8vv22 literally to mean created then you must take wisdom to be a she who was created right?

You are looking for excuse where their is none , trying so hard to prove your fraud trinity doctrine.

Keep deceving yourself.

Janosky:
KNOCK OUT PUNCH !!!!!! blueAgent, oshe gaan .

Lol.......... watch out they will never respond to that.

solite3:
where was it written that Jesus was brought forth?
You twisting the meaning of begotten to mean what it does not?

Jesus said that He was not the Father more than 80 times. While remaining one in purpose, Jesus and the Father are clearly two separate and distinct beings
as previously seen. On more than one occasion, the Father spoke to Jesus from heaven. “And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, 'This is My
beloved Son, in whom I am well
pleased'. ” Matthew 3:17 . Either Jesus and the Father are two separate individual persons, or Jesus was an
expert ventriloquist.

Father and His Son Jesus Christ. Why is that?
Because “there is but one God, the Father , of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ , by whom
are all things, and we by him. ” 1
Corinthians 8:6 . That's wh


For Adventists: “ The divine nature in the person of Christ was not transformed in human nature and the human nature of the Son of man was not changed into the divine nature, but they were mysteriously blended in the Saviour of men. He was not the Father but in him dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily,” — (E.G. White, Lt8a, July 7, 1890)
“The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord
God Almighty , yet Christ and the Father are one.” — (E.G. White, Ms140, 1903)
“The unity that exists between Christ and His disciples does not destroy the
personality of either. They are one in purpose, in mind, in character , but not in person. It is thus that God and Christ are
one. ” — (E.G. White, 8T 269.4, 1904)

solite3:
where was it written that Jesus was brought forth?
You twisting the meaning of begotten to mean what it does not?

Is the word "Trinity" found anywhere in the Bible? No, it's not.
Is the phrase "God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy
Spirit" in the Bible? No. So what does the Bible say?
THE FATHER: - 'God the Father' 13 times; 'The most high
God' 11 times; 'The Highest' 6 times; 'The only true God' 1
time.
JESUS CHRIST: - 'Son of God' 48 times; 'only begotten' 6
times; God's 'Holy Child' 2 times; His 'firstborn' 4 times.
HOLY SPIRIT: - 'Spirit of God' 26 times; 'God's Spirit' 9 times;
'Thy Spirit' 4 times; 'Spirit of your Father' 1 time; 'Spirit of
Christ' 2 times.
TRINITARIAN: - 'God the Holy Spirit' 0 times; 'God the Son' 0
times; 'God in three persons' 0 times; 'trinity' or 'triune God' 0
times.

solite3:
where was it written that Jesus was brought forth?
You twisting the meaning of begotten to mean what it does not?

Will an Almighty God still have a God and Father?

John 5:30
I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My
judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will
but the will of the Father who sent Me.
John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will,
but the will of Him who sent Me.
John 17:20-26
"I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will
believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one,
as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may
be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that
they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in
Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the
world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved
them as You have loved Me. 'Father, I desire that they also
whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they
may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You
loved Me before the foundation of the world. O righteous
Father! The world has not known You, but I have known
You; and these have known that You sent Me. And I have
declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the
love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in
them."
John 20:17
Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet
ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to
them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to
My God and your God.’”


John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

solite3:
where was it written that Jesus was brought forth?
You twisting the meaning of begotten to mean what it does not?

Proverbs 8:24 When there were no depths, I was BROUGHT FORTH; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Proverbs 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I BROUGHT FORTH.

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. John 16:30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

solite3:
The word translated as beginning means Arche
Which can either be translated as
1. The ruler
2.first
3. Origin
The word arche can somehow be interpreted as ruler
It cannot be interpreted as first created the book of John has already silenced any notion that christ is part of the creation.
The most accurate word be origin or source which agree with the other scriptures.

The new word translation is wrong to have interpreted Rev 3:14 as the first of the creation by God since John already told us that All things created was done by Christ.

If you put Beginning,First or origin in that verse it still does not change it's meaning that Jesus is the beginning,first, or origin of God's creation , You cannot prove trinity with this lies.

No where is Arche translated as ruler

solite3:
So according to you Jehovah lacked wisdom until he created it right? In verse 22.
Secondly since wisdom was a woman Jesus must be a woman?

Bible verses that show the Father and Son are separate persons
God the Father Rev 4:1-8
God's son Rev 5:6
Ancients of days Daniel 17:13,7:22

Jesus remains son of God even after his ressurection.
Rev 3:18, 3:12, 3:5

solite3:
You dont understand what you typed.
I AM is clearly God's name and Jesus referred to himself as I AM.

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

It is obvious you lack comprehension.

Jesus meant that he was existing before Abraham which is true becos his father ,God brought him forth before the World was made.

From that my initial post you will find that the IAM Jesus was referring to was not the one of Exdous which God alone can claim, but he was only saying that he was existing before Abraham.

Right in that post I gave you, you would find other examples of people who used the same word translated IAM.
Does that mean they are claiming to be God?.

solite3:
So according to you Jehovah lacked wisdom until he created it right? In verse 22.
Secondly since wisdom was a woman Jesus must be a woman?

Are you that poor in comprehension?

Where did I say Jehovah lacked wisdom.

Was proverbs 8 written for God to read or for man to read?
Proverbs 8 was written for us Man to read and seek wisdom which is Jesus.

Bible uses he,she,his to describe wisdom or knowledge .

Like I said before Jesus compared himself to Wisdom and knowledge.
E.g in English language, countries are referred to as she, does that mean the are they are women? same with ships.

solite3:
answer the question yourself can God be created?

You see how trinity doctrine have box you to a corner?

No God cannot be created or brought forth.

That question is for you, you claim that Jesus is Co-equal with God, since the Bible says Jesus was begotten or brought forth or came forth from somewhere then God also must have also been brought forth or begotten,

So I am asking you to pls name the person that gave begot God.
Unless the Bible is lieing that Jesus did not come forth or was begotten .

Janosky:
Greek monogenes is used in the conext of parents (dad/mom) and only child relationship.
The bone stuck in the throat of Trinitarians is:
1) how did parents /only child relationship arise?
Birth (humans) /Creation (by God. Psalms 90:2).
2)
Is parents /only child, a relationship of two equals?
3).
Heb11:17-19. Isaac is Abraham's begotten son, does it mean Isaac is not his son,(same applies to Jesus ?

Excellent Bro.

solite3:
what do you mean by beget?

Who gave birth to God,?

solite3:
Proverbs 8:1-3 Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?
She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.
She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.

Really.
So you are telling me that you don't understand Bible prophecy.

A Bible prophecy can start with an object or issue and end with a different subject while delivering it's message.
This is evidence all through the Bible.

Jesus likened himself to wisdom and knowledge, his message was that we should seek him, the content of the message changes in chapter 22.

Proverbs 8:17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me. 8:20 I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment: 8:21 That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.

solite3:
Jesus called himself the I Am so many times.
I Am is refers to the unchangeable nature of God not his abiblity to become aything he want.

@ bolded you dont know what you are saying.
If God choose to serve himself how does it mean his nature changed.

You do not know the meaning of I Am.

Another verse brought into question is
John 8:58 . Note that the words “I am”
also mean “I exist.” Some claim that
Christ was declaring Himself to be God
in John 8:58 because He used the
words “I am.” This is erroneously based
on the words “I am” being a reference to
Exodus 3:14 . From this they draw the
conclusion that Christ was alluding to a
divine name and thereby telling the Jews
that He was God. Trinitarians further try
and support their claim by saying this is
why the Jews picked up stones to kill
Him. But this was due to many things
Jesus said to them throughout John
chapter 8 that slowly brought them to
anger. The final straw being Jesus
claiming seniority over Abraham who
they said was their father. So Jesus
claimed greater authority than the
patriarch and hence was also claiming
to be greater than them.
The phrase “ I am ” in John 8:58 comes
from two Greek words “egō” and “eimi.”
The Strong's Definitions are:
“egō : “I” (only expressed when
emphatic): - I, me. ”
“eimi: I exist (used only when emphatic):
- am, have been, X it is I, was. ”
How would you expect Jesus to respond
to this comment? “ Then said the Jews
unto him, You are not yet fifty years old,
and have you seen Abraham? ” John 8:57
Not knowing Jesus existed before
Abraham, the Pharisees are saying how
could you have seen Abraham because
you are not yet 50 years old. Since the
Greek words for “I am” also mean I exist
or existed, what is the obvious
translation and response from Christ
who existed before Abraham?
“Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say
unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. ”
John 8:58
Or
“Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say
unto you, Before Abraham was, I existed.”
John 8:58
Both are valid translations and the
majority of Bible translations agree with
the last one in fact with good reason!
So “ I exist”, “I have been” and “I was” are
other possible translations which have
all been used by various Bible
translators for John 8:58 as well as
elsewhere in the KJV. For example: ego
eimi has been translated to “I was” in
Luke 19:22 “You knewest that I was ( ego
eimi) an austere man, ”
These words formed a phrase that was
in very common use by Jews and
Christians and in New Testament
Scriptures in the first century. It was not
the name of any deity, be it the God of
the Bible or any other god. It was never
understood by Jews or Christians as
declaring one to be God. If it were
understood that way, you can be certain
that the Jews would have never applied
it to themselves as they did so
frequently! In the following examples
Peter, Paul, Gabriel and Zacharias all
said, “I am ” (ego eimi). But none of them
were claiming to be God.
Luke 1:18 “And Zacharias said unto the
angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am
( ego eimi) an old man, ” Luke 1:19 “And
the angel answering said unto him, I am
( ego eimi) Gabriel, ” John 1:27 “He it is,
who coming after me is preferred before
me, whose shoe's latchet I am ( ego eimi)
not worthy to unloose. ” Acts 10:21 “Then
Peter went down to the men which were
sent unto him from Cornelius; and said,
Behold, I am ( ego eimi) he whom you
seek: ” Acts 21:39 “Paul said, I am ( ego
eimi) a man which am a Jew of Tarsus,”
And the blind man also identifies himself
by saying, I am . John 9:9 “Some said,
This is he: others said, He is like him: but
he said, I am ( ego eimi) he. ” None of the
Jews saw this man as declaring himself
to be God either.
Here are all the other verses where
Jesus said ego eimi in the Gospels. Not
one can be understood as Jesus
claiming to be God. Matthew 24:5, Mark
13:6, Luke 21:8 “I am Christ ”, John 8:24,
28, 13:19, 18:5, 6, 8, “I am he (Jesus) ,”
Matthew 20:15 “I am good ,” Matthew
28:20 “I am with you always,” Mark 14:62
“Jesus said I am (the Son of God) ,” Luke
22:27 “I am among you as one who
serveth ,” Luke 22:70 “You say that I am
(the Son of God) ,” John 6:35, 48, 51 “ I
am the bread of life ,” John 7:34, 12:26,
17:24, 14:3 “ Where I am ,” John 8:12 “ I
am the light of the world ,” John 8:18 “ I
am the one that bear witness,” John 8:23
“I am from above,” and “ I am not of this
world ,” John 10:7, 9 “I am the door ,”
John 10:11, 14 “I am the good
shepherd,” John 11:25 “I am the
resurrection,” John 14:6 “I am the way ,”
John 15:1, 5 “I am the true vine,” John
17:14, 16 “I am not of the world ,” John
18:37 “Thou sayest that I am a king .”
At the end of Christ's ministry when
news of Him had spread far and wide,
who did the Jews understand Christ to
be saying He was and what was the
charge they brought against Him?
Matthew 26:63 “the high priest answered
and said unto him, I adjure you by the
living God, that you tell us whether you be
the Christ, the Son of God. ” Matthew
27:40, 43 “If you be the Son of God,
come down from the cross. 43 He
trusted in God ; let him deliver him now, if
he will have him: for he said, I am the Son
of God. ” Mark 14:61 “Again the high
priest asked him, and said unto him, Are
you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
62 And Jesus said, I am [ego eimi]: ”
Mark 15:39 “when the centurion, which
stood over against him, saw that he so
cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said,
Truly this man was the Son of God .” Luke
22:67, 70 “Are you the Christ ? tell us. ...
70 Then said they all, Are you then the
Son of God ? And he said unto them, You
say that I am [ego eimi]. ” John 19:7 “The
Jews answered him, We have a law, and
by our law he ought to die, because he
made himself the Son of God .”
Twice in the verses above Jesus
responded, “I am” (ego eimi) and yet He
was not saying He was God but
confirming that He was the Son of God.
The Jews clearly never understood
Jesus to be declaring Himself God. The
outrage would have been heard far and
wide if He had. There is no record
anywhere in the entire New Testament
of anyone even asking Him if He was
God. So how could the Jews have seen
Him to be saying He was God in John
8:58?
It is also notable that the words “I AM
THAT I AM ” in Exodus 3:14 have been
variously understood for centuries. The
Vulgate translates it as “I am who am. ”
The Septuagint to “I am he who exists.”
The Targum of Jonathan and the
Jerusalem Targum paraphrase the
words as “ He who spake, and the world
was; who spake, and all things existed. ”
The original words literally signify, “I will
be what I will be.”
A comparison of Exodus 3:14 and John
8:58 using the Greek Old Testament the
Septuagint, reveals that God said, “I am
the being (ego eimi ho ohn),” and Jesus
said, “Before Abraham was, I am (prin
abraam genesthai ego eimi) .” So the
divine name is actually “The being (ho
ohn) ”, not “I am (ego eimi ).” This is
further proven by the end of Exodus 3:14
which says “The being (ho ohn) has sent
me to you. ” It does not say “I am (ego
eimi) has sent me to you. ” No matter
how it is translated into English, “ho ohn”
is not the same as “ego eimi .” So there
is no connection between “I AM” in
Exodus and “I am” in John. In no way
does John 8:58 equate Jesus to God
except by biased inference based on
weak translation and bad grammar.
Below are a few examples of how John
8:58 should have been translated. There
are in fact over forty translations that
translated this correctly. See the
meaning of I am in John 8:58 for
detailed information and more
translations.
“The absolute truth is that I was in
existence before Abraham was ever
born! ” — (The Living Bible )
“Jesus answered, before Abraham
existed, I existed.” — ( The Clarified New
Testament )
“In truth I tell you,” replied Jesus, “before
Abraham existed I was.” — (Twentieth
Century New Testament)
“Jesus answered, “The truth is, I existed
before Abraham was even born! ” — (New
Living Translation)
“Jesus said to them, I am telling the
truth: I was alive before Abraham was
born! ” — (International Bible Translators )
The Alpha and
Omega the

solite3:
lol read what you posted carefully.
Is this not what I have been saying.
Begotten is used to decribe a special relationship it does not mean created.

But the Bible calls Jesus the first or beginning of God's creation.


Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

malvisguy212:
I explained the meaning of begotten for you. why was Isaac address as the only son of Abraham , when Abraham already had Ishmael as the first born ,? stop using English meanings to interprets Bible, it is wrong.

there was NEVER a time Jesus became God, but there was a time He became man. the Father is the head of
Deity; the Son is the one who reveals Deity, while the Holy Spirit carries out the work of Deity. this has always been the position of the trinitarian.

But you trinitarians claim they are Co-equal.

malvisguy212:
this is not a teaching, this is a philosophy on religion, and your philosophy is very wrong.

How is it a philosophy? I just showed you the Greek translations of the word Godhead, which means divinity and you are claiming it is not teaching but philosophy.

Janosky:
It's very obvious that Greek 'theotes' meaning divine nature has no correlation with Godhead.
The word "Godhead" was coined with the dubious intent to claim that God is 3 "heads" in one God.

True bro.