mazaje1:

Stop talking thrash, by the way Wikipedia is very well referenced. . .it is a very credible source, much better than the christian apologist websites you keep copying and pasting from. . .By the way rabbis who are also professors of Jewish history all attest to the fact of what is written in the Wikipedia entry I posted. . .They are Jews, professors of Jewish history and practicing Rabbis. . .You don't even know what come is in the Hebrew language yet you are here blabbing nonsense. . .Below is a documentary where some of them were interviewed and gave their candid opinion on the authorship of the hebrew bible. . .


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qalTJzk4kO0

. . .The consensus among biblical scholars is that Moses did not write any part of the books attributed to him because of the writing styles first and other reasons. . .

You forgot that ANYONE can write ANYTHING on Wiki

@KAY17
@mazaje1
@mazaje

There is evidence within the Pentateuch, which points to Mosaic authorship, since it clearly portrays Moses as the author of certain portions. “And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD” (Exodus 24:4, KJV). “And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people” (Exodus 24:7, KJV). “And the Lord said to Moses, ‘Write these words; in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel’” (Exodus 34:27, RSV). To these references many others could be added.

Not only does the internal evidence of the Scriptures make it clear that Moses wrote the Pentateuch, but other Old Testament books confirmed that Moses wrote those Books.
Joshua 8:32 (KJV) refers to “the law of Moses, which he wrote.”
Additional Old Testament references include I Kings 2:3, II Kings 14:6, and Joshua 23:6, which attribute to Moses as the writer of the Pentateuch.

Jewish tradition is firm in its belief in Mosaic authorship. Ecclesiasticus, one of the books of the apocrypha, written about 180 b.c., states, “All this is the covenant-book of God Most High, the Law which Moses enacted to be the heritage of the assemblies of Jacob” (Ecclesiasticus 24:23). The Talmud, in Baba Bathra, 146, which is a Jewish commentary on the first five books (around 200 b.c.), along with the writings of Flavius Josephus (born a.d. 37) and philo (a.d. 20) also concur.

The Jews, at the time of Jesus also confirmed this:
Mark 12:19 Master, Moses wrote unto us, If a man's brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

Early Christian tradition likewise agrees that Moses composed the Pentateuch. Go and check the writings of Junilius (a.d. 527–565) and Leontius of Byzantium (sixth century a.d.) along with Church fathers Melito (a.d. 175), Cyril of Jerusalem (a.d. 348–386), and Hilary (a.d. 366) teach that Moses wrote the Pentateuch.

Add to this the testimony of the New Testament. The apostles believed that “Moses wrote unto us” (Mark 12:19, KJV) as did the apostle Paul, who when speaking of a passage in the Pentateuch said, “Moses describeth” (Romans 10:5, KJV).

However, the issue as to the writer of the first five books is once-and-for-all solved by the testimony of the God-man, Jesus Christ. Jesus made it clear that Moses wrote these books (Mark 7:10; 10:3–5; 12:26; Luke 5:14; 16:29–31; 24:27, 44; John 7:19, 23).

In John 5:45–47, Jesus states, “Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote of Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?” (NASB).

I would like to add two other points. Have you (or your sources) examined the evidence of history and archaeology?

Those who advocate that Moses is not the writer usually hold to the idea that there is no supernatural work of God in the world (as in your atheistic beliefs), nor has there ever been. So, it would be FOOLISH for you to believe all the historical information written about the creation of the world, the crossing of the Red Sea, conversations between God and Moses, or even the historical evidence that Moses, a prophet of God, wrote the account in the first place. The whole idea is more of a story.

First, you need to examine the evidence and then decide your case. I am not saying that simply examining the evidence means you will agree with someone else’s conclusions, but it does mean you are not rejecting the conclusions out of ignorance, but I think that is what you have leaned to do.

Second, in recent times (last 60-100yrs) archaeological finds have vindicated many of the Old Testament claims supporting the likelihood of Moses' to be the writer. This is because most all of the finds demonstrate that only someone who lived during the time the Bible claimed that Moses lived could have known and written about the things in these books.

I believe you will reconsider or review your sources again, making Wiki your final authority is the beginning of failure! There are better authority sources to check and re-check.

mazaje1:

Pls stop going to christian apologist sites to copy and paste rubbish verbatim, Moses did NOT write anything inside the first 5 books attributed to him. . .Moses did not even write anything inside the book of Genesis. Some of the stories in the book of genesis were written hundreds of years before each other. . .


Here are the different Hebrew writing styles, and this remains the main reasons why Rabbis today have stated that Moses did not write any part of the books attributed to him. . .The Hebrew TRADITION assigned the authorship of the books to Moses but when Rabbis studied the different writing styles they concluded that Moses did not write anything inside the bible. . .

From Wikipedia. . .

Archaic Biblical Hebrew from the 10th to the 6th century BCE, corresponding to the Monarchic Period until the Babylonian Exile and represented by certain texts in the Hebrew Bible (Tanach), notably the Song of Moses (Exodus 15) and the Song of Deborah (Judges 5). Also called Old Hebrew or Paleo-Hebrew. It was written in a form of the Canaanite script. (A script descended from this is still used by the Samaritans, see Samaritan Hebrew language.)

Standard Biblical Hebrew around the 8th to 6th centuries BCE, corresponding to the late Monarchic period and the Babylonian Exile. It is represented by the bulk of the Hebrew Bible that attains much of its present form around this time. Also called Biblical Hebrew, Early Biblical Hebrew, Classical Biblical Hebrew (or Classical Hebrew in the narrowest sense).

Late Biblical Hebrew, from the 5th to the 3rd centuries BCE, that corresponds to the Persian Period and is represented by certain texts in the Hebrew Bible, notably the books of Ezra and Nehemiah. Basically similar to Classical Biblical Hebrew, apart from a few foreign words adopted for mainly governmental terms, and some syntactical innovations such as the use of the particle shel (of, belonging to). It adopted the Imperial Aramaic script (from which the modern Hebrew script descends).
Israelian Hebrew is a proposed northern dialect of biblical Hebrew, attested in all eras of the language, in some cases competing with late biblical Hebrew as an explanation for non-standard linguistic features of biblical texts.

Dead Sea Scroll Hebrew from the 3rd century BCE to the 1st century CE, corresponding to the Hellenistic and Roman Periods before the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem and represented by the Qumran Scrolls that form most (but not all) of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Commonly abbreviated as DSS Hebrew, also called Qumran Hebrew. The Imperial Aramaic script of the earlier scrolls in the 3rd century BCE evolved into the Hebrew square script of the later scrolls in the 1st century CE, also known as ketav Ashuri (Assyrian script), still in use today.

Mishnaic Hebrew from the 1st to the 3rd or 4th century CE, corresponding to the Roman Period after the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem and represented by the bulk of the Mishnah and Tosefta within the Talmud and by the Dead Sea Scrolls, notably the Bar Kokhba Letters and the Copper Scroll. Also called Tannaitic Hebrew or Early Rabbinic Hebrew.

As I aforementioned, the Rabbis studied the different biblical Hebrew and realized that Moses did not write the books attributed to him. . .According to rabbi Boteach, Genesis chapter 2 was written in Archaic Biblical Hebrew while genesis chapter one was written in Standard Biblical Hebrew and the writing styles are centuries apart. . .Meaning when genesis chapter 2 was written the writing style used in genesis chapter one had not yet been invented. . .it came hundreds of years later. . .

Rabbinical Judaism calculated a lifespan of Moses corresponding to 1391–1271 BCE. if we are to go with this age then its clear that most of the books assigned to Moses were not written during the time of Moses because the standard biblical Hebrew style of writing which covers most parts of the hebrew bible and the books assigned to Moses was invented during the 8th to 6th centuries BCE, a period when Moses had long died. . . Get your facts right and stop copying nonsense from christian apologist sites. . .

Your guess is a FAILURE. I didn't copy, I wrote them from what I already knew.

You write or comment as if you know everything about who I am, but you're very very far from reality. You are the one copying and pasting what you don't even understand - if you did, it would have been pardonable, but you don't even have a clue!

So, you believe EVERYTHING you read from Wikipedia? That is a FAIL, too!

Kay17:
1. I enjoy your childlike innocence. The way you wholehearted accept whatever is written in the Bible. For example, you without further investigation, accepted that the books of Moses must have been written by Moses despite being written in third person and recording events that occurred thousands of years before he was born.

That is exactly what Jesus said, you need some childlike innocence. However, it doesn't mean that you should be confined in childlike manners. It is a MINDSET, for the natural man is uninitiated and cannot understand; there is a childlike simplicity attached to these things.

So you mean it is impossible that God could not have taken Moses and started showing him, as in a big screen, like a cinema? If His Creation are intelligent enough to make video records of their acts (eg a movie), why can't He?

Kay17:
Nonetheless each book clearly conveys the opinions of the writers not of God because God never said a word. God was quiet all through the Bible and neither did God himself confirm what the bible writers said was true.

So, when Daniel wrote about his spiritual encounters with angels and they spoke to him, it was his opinion?

Kay17:
2. . I'd assume your answer is no, because you referred to the Bible again. My view is the Bible is floating in midair with no foundation and without the trappings of divinity.

So, you mean all the prophecies foretold in the Bible that are unfolding daily are man-made?

I did ask, which other Book in history can match the character and essence of the Holy Bible, you are yet to answer this. This Book you claim to be floating in the air with no foundation, do you know how many lives it has transformed? Those are the REAL EXTERNAL witnesses you need. How many Books in history have done that?

Kay17:

Sorry to drag you back, but stay within the issues.

1. The human authorship of the Bible and its implications.

It is apparent from most Books of the Bible whose names are associated with which Book of the 66 Books of the Bible. For example, the first five Books of the Bible, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy are called the Books of Moses. Why? Because Moses wrote them. So, it is very easy to ascribe authorship to Moses. Those were more of historical and instructional Books.

Then we have ones such as The Prophets (making prophecies). For example, Daniel. In there, he recorded of his personal spiritual encounters with angels and they shared information of things that would happen in the future with him. Some of those things he did not understand and when he tried to inquire, they told him not to bother because it had nothing to do with his generation, but that it was for the END of Days.

The same can be said of Paul the apostle in the New Testament. For example, we have the Epistle of Paul to the Romans or to the Ephesians, etc. Even in the case of a Book called Philemon, which was more or less a letter to one person, made it into the Compendium.

If we have someone like Moses, Daniel, Paul, etc., write these Books, then why do we take authorship from these people and ascribe it to God? The reasons cannot be removed from the purpose of God from the very beginning of Man's creation. God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. (Genesis 1:26-27)

That is, God was after the creation that was to be in the same nature as Himself - holy and powerful to dominate a certain aspect of His work (Earth) and creative, just like Himself. But, Man fell and had to be redeemed. So, all the laws, instructions, prophecies, dreams, visions, that would culminate into Books were to make Man come to this realization. That if you fall, it's not the end, you can rise again.

The implication of human authorship as I have explained above is that what they were writing were simply inspired by God. How do we know know this? Take what Daniel wrote for example, 'I heard, but I did not understand. Then I said, "O my lord, what shall be the outcome of these things?" He said, "Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.' (Daniel 12:8-9)

Now, if Daniel was the author, why would he write to describe things that he would not understand and yet be asking or declaring, "I heard, but I did not understand"? And when he did ask, he was asked to simply "go your way". This few verses explicitly shows that Daniel was not the author of the Book, he was simply a writer of what He was inspired to write.

That was why we read from Peter the apostle:
2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

And we also read from Paul:
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Secondly, as writers and not really authors of the Scriptures, can we say the Bible is without human errors? No, because we humans are prone to mistakes. Many times, when I am writing something, I jump words or even misapply punctuations. But that does not mean the fact of what I was trying to say is heretic, it was just that I made a writing mistake not one of essence. Transcription error is not the same as Inspirational error, neither the converse.

A glaring example of this is the FOUR GOSPEL accounts. Anyone reading through them will discover discrepancies here and there, but does that mean the essence is incorrect? Absolutely not. Here are four different people sharing a story from four different viewpoints. It is as if each were standing at the four corners of the world and relaying their stories. It is akin to CNN and BBC, you can expect them to be saying exactly the same thing or using the same camera, each will have their own variations.

Overall, most people see these things - names associated with Books or different accounts of the same story and declare if God is the author then there is no God or these are men's works and has nothing to do with the Almighty God. On the surface, that may be admissible, but with critical examination, such conclusions are without merit.

One major thing that I must add to these implications is that, for most of these Books, at the time of their writing, it wasn't as if the writers knew or foreknew that it will form part of a compendium that will become the bible. No, they had no idea that would happen. In their minds, as in the case of Paul, they thought they were writing to an individual or a small group of people. The same can be said of most great things in the world today. The founders, e.g Microsoft, Apple, Intel, etc did not start out with world dominance in mind. But, God was behind the curtain, orchestrating things all along.

Kay17:
2. The criteria for INSPIRATION by God, is laid out in the Bible and not in any external source. How valid would those criteria be?

One simple test.

Matthew 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

I am quite sure that you have heard the mystical experience called being "born again" before. This experience, to simplify it, Jesus described it to be similar to a woman giving birth to a baby. That is, a when a person accepts (believes and confesses) the saving grace that is in Jesus Christ, he is given the power of ability of sonship, which helps him to overcome the nature of sin that enslaves people.

Due to the fact that the Spirit of God "gives birth" to the individual, the person has a deposit of that Spirit in his heart. So, when he's reading a text or hearing a speech, if it is true, that Spirit in him will make feel at peace and in agreement that this is of God, and if it is man-made, a deep-seated feeling of rejection will overwhelm him from within as well. This is why it is often difficult to deceive a born-again believer in God. Because he has a "Witness within". Although, most times too, the believer ignore this Witness within and gets entangled in all sorts. This deep-seated feeling is also called perception.

Also, there are times when the humanity of individual (the five senses) will be too overwhelming that it he ignores the "Witness within". When this happens in a sincere manner, not out of disobedience, God usually sends other external means of communication to confirm the ignored "Witness within" as being true. A good example of this is in Acts 21:10-13.

I hope my brief answers would have thrown some light into your concerns or questions about the Bible.

mazaje: This braveguy is a comedian. . .Where the bible VERY CLEARLY gets it wrong he says its spiritual or an allegory. The usual excuse they use to delude themselves and explain absurdity away . .Make things up as you go is the name of the game. . .There is no truth in any of the nonsense you wrote, you just danced around threw what ever it is you can throw, lie, delude yourself just so that you can keep holding unto mythical and fictitious belief of ancient Jews, Romans and Greeks, shebi the white man is your god?. . .Keep on keeping on. . .

You've been asking loads and loads of questions and I have patiently answered you. I asked you a simple question and you ignored it. I will ask it again.

ARE YOU DENYING THAT YOU'RE A MUSLIM or NOT?
or should I ask it this way:
DO YOU DENY ALLAH IS YOUR GOD?

Kay17:

Sorry to drag you back, but stay within the issues.

1. The human authorship of the Bible and its implications.

2. The criteria for INSPIRATION by God, is laid out in the Bible and not in any external source. How valid would those criteria be?

Nothing to be sorry about, KAY17. I will come back to answer these, just that time is limited for me at the moment, unlike the last two weeks. Thanks for the patience.

I love this! Although my time is getting limited now, but I love this!
It's not like the useless ones that I read from you previously. However, like KAY17, can you remain within subject instead dashing into another topic before one is finished; I have noted that it is Muslims that debate this way. By the way, do you deny that you are a Muslim? (I need your answer).

Skimming through your points, I could see that you're cherry-picking verses and ignoring the context of them as well. Most of the verses you picked have a lot of spiritual connotations, if you isolate them from the verses around them, they lose their usefulness and you will struggle to understand them.

I know you will not be satisfied with some of my answers, but I wish I can give simplified solutions, sorry you will just get the direct truth.

Ok, let's go!

mazaje:
The book of Daniel was written many years after the events if predicted happened. . .Many of its prophecies were lies and never happened. . .The gospel of Mathew was also written after AD 70 so its very easy to predict things after they have happened. . .You are just a joke. . .

The Book of Daniel had had most of its prophecies fulfilled, some are being fulfilled as we speak and the last part (as in the last chapter is yet to be fulfilled, the fulfillment is in the LAST DAYS and we are in the moment of the last days now)

The different kingdoms I cited did all come into effect as at the time of the writing of that Book.

mazaje:
Here are some unfulfilled prophecies Lies in the bible. . . .why should a book that contains so much lies and falsehood be considered the word of a perfect and all knowing deity?

1. According to Ex 3:8, the Israelites will live in a large land, flowing with milk and honey, and according to 2Sa 7:10, the biblegod said that he will provide a place for them and they will not be disturbed anymore, but as a matter of historical fact Israel (and vicinity) has been a relatively small and mostly barren land, and the Israelites have been continually harassed from all sides up till today.[/quote]

Have you ever read Deuteronomy 28 before? Check the conditions stipulated there. And the current state of Israel? Are they worshipping/following God? Do you know where they call the "Gay Capital of the World?" - Tel Aviv! ..... Do you remember what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah? Yet, as God's judgement is there for all to see, His mercy is still preserving them because of His promises of Old.

mazaje:
2. Many verses prophesy that the throne of David will endure forever [/b]and that there will never be a time without a man upon that throne. But in point of historical fact, the Davidic line of kings ended with Zedekiah. 450 yrs. later, the Maccabeans had a brief reign. But for 2000 years, there has been no Davidic king.

Who was Jesus? Son of David, King of kings. He's alive and reigns over the Universe!

mazaje:
3. According to Isa 14:23, Babylon will become a swapland, but that never happened. According to Jer 51:36, Babylon will become totally dry, but that never happened either. According to other verses, Babylon will[b] never be inhabited by people again and the biblegod said that he will completely cut of Babylon, her name and survivors, but in fact Babylon has been continually inhabited by people since that time. [Note 1Pe 5:13.] It is now part of Iraq.

You must know that ALL prophecies relating to the LAST DAYS are spiritual. This is an END of DAYS prophecy. If you look at:
Revelation 14:8
Revelation 16:19
Revelation 17:5
Revelation 18:2
Revelation 18:10

So, you don't need to tear out your hair on this, it's going to happen! The storm is gathering already

mazaje:
4. According to Isa 17:1, Damascus will be destroyed, but in fact Damascus is one of the few ancient cities that has never been destroyed. [The fact that so many were destroyed makes prophecies of the future destruction of ancient cities rather unremarkable.] If Isaiah had predicted that Damascus would never be destroyed, then that would have been remarkable.

What is the current state of the City of Damascus right now? Tell me, if you would desire to live there as we speak?
https://www.google.com/search?q=damascus&rlz=1C1AVNC_enGB559GB559&espv=2&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ei=nx_OU6viBILG7AbjmoDgBg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg&biw=1720&bih=824&dpr=1#q=damascus+2014&tbm=isch

Who could have thought this would happen some fifty, hundred or 1000 years ago? Open your eyes, the Bible prophecies are unfolding DAILY! No other book in history has this much power!

mazaje:
5. According to Isa 19:5, Eze 30:12, and Zec 10:11, the Nile River will dry up, and according to Eze 29:9-12, Egypt will become desolate for 40 years, with no man or animal passing through it and with all Egyptians dispersed, but as a matter of fact the Nile River has never dried up and in the whole history of Egypt no such calamitous events have ever occurred.

This is another END of Days prophecy. How do we know this?
Zechariah 14
Revelation 11:8

mazaje:
6. According to Isa 19:18, five Egyptian cities will speak the language of Canaan, but linguists and archaeologists assure us that no Egyptian cities have ever spoken the language of Canaan.

This also is a LAST DAYS' prophecies. The fulfillment began just after the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Act 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Act 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
Act 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
Act 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

It has happened and it is STILL happening!

mazaje:
7. According to Isa 34:9-10, Edom (the land between the Dead Sea and Gulf of Aqaba) will become burning pitch forever: no one will ever pass through it again because It's fire will not be quenched night and day; its smoke will rise forever. From generation to generation. But in truth that has never happened to Edom. People have passed through it for thousands of years up till today.

This is not just going to happen to Edom (the physical place), it will happen to all cities of the world as the world will be cleaned off of its wickedness. Edom here is allegorical to the sinful nature of Man. That portion in Zechariah 14, with specific reference to verse 19 clarifies this.

mazaje:
8. According to Isa 52:1, the uncircumcised and unclean will never enter Jerusalem again, but in fact such people have continually entered Jerusalem for thousands of years.

Again, this is one of the LAST DAYS' prophecy. In fact, almost all of Isaiah (and the prophets) are related to the last days. That is why they are called the PROPHETS, because they are prophecies related to the LAST DAYS. Most of the prophets could not even relate to what was being revealed to them at the time, because what they were seeing defied their common knowledge at the time. For example, Daniel.

Dan 12:8 I heard, but I did not understand. Then I said, "O my lord, what shall be the outcome of these things?"
Dan 12:9 He said, "Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.

mazaje:
9. According to Jer 42:17, Jews who choose to live in Egypt will all die and leave no remnant. But history shows that Jews continued to live there for centuries, later establishing a cultural center at Alexandria.

Yes, this is a prophecy of the END TIME.
The Jews here represent believers (Romans 2:28) who choose to live in the way of the world.
Egypt is a representation of a sinful and repressive world. A life of slavery to sin.

mazaje:
10. Zep 3:13 prophesied that the remnant of Israel will not sin or lie or be afraid, but in truth they were never so moral nor so fearless.

Yes! Yes! Yes!

Zep 3:8 "Therefore wait for me," declares the LORD, "for the day when I rise up to seize the prey. For my decision is to gather nations, to assemble kingdoms, to pour out upon them my indignation, all my burning anger; for in the fire of my jealousy all the earth shall be consumed.
Zep 3:9 "For at that time I will change the speech of the peoples to a pure speech, that all of them may call upon the name of the LORD and serve him with one accord.
Zep 3:10 From beyond the rivers of Cush my worshipers, the daughter of my dispersed ones, shall bring my offering.
Zep 3:11 "On that day you shall not be put to shame because of the deeds by which you have rebelled against me; for then I will remove from your midst your proudly exultant ones, and you shall no longer be haughty in my holy mountain.
Zep 3:12 But I will leave in your midst a people humble and lowly. They shall seek refuge in the name of the LORD,
Zep 3:13 those who are left in Israel; they shall do no injustice and speak no lies, nor shall there be found in their mouth a deceitful tongue. For they shall graze and lie down, and none shall make them afraid."
Zep 3:14 Sing aloud, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel! Rejoice and exult with all your heart, O daughter of Jerusalem!
Zep 3:15 The LORD has taken away the judgments against you; he has cleared away your enemies. The King of Israel, the LORD, is in your midst; you shall never again fear evil.
Zep 3:16 On that day it shall be said to Jerusalem: "Fear not, O Zion; let not your hands grow weak.
Zep 3:17 The LORD your God is in your midst, a mighty one who will save; he will rejoice over you with gladness; he will quiet you by his love; he will exult over you with loud singing.
Zep 3:18 I will gather those of you who mourn for the festival, so that you will no longer suffer reproach.
Zep 3:19 Behold, at that time I will deal with all your oppressors. And I will save the lame and gather the outcast, and I will change their shame into praise and renown in all the earth.
Zep 3:20 At that time I will bring you in, at the time when I gather you together; for I will make you renowned and praised among all the peoples of the earth, when I restore your fortunes before your eyes," says the LORD.

These last two (#11 & #12) are my favorites so far..... I am running late to prepare for an appointment, I don't want to rush them, so I will answer when I come back. This would several hours from now. But, I will answer them, they are the BEST of the lot!

mazaje:
11.According to Mt 12:40, Christ will be buried for three nights, but he died on a Friday and by Sunday the tomb was said to be empty. Between Friday and Sunday, there are just two nights, not three. The new testament writers have said that Jesus will be crucified, he will die and be resurrected after 3 days according to the scriptures, but up till today no such scripture has been provided by anybody. In fact that prophecy does not exists any where in the Hebrew bible.

mazaje:
11. Many verses prophesy that Christ's second coming will occur soon. Some of them specifically say that it will be within his listeners' lifetime, i.e., before that generation (there with Jesus) passes away or "before you finish going round the cities of Jerusalem I will return" . But in truth more than 19 centuries have elapsed since then and the event still has not occurred. Of all the examples of unfulfilled prophecies, this one strikes me as the one that is clearest and most powerful.

b3llo: Atheist will soon wage a war

Let them , it won't change the fact that the Bible is much more scientific than ALL of them, including their best professors, put together. What they always forget is that the science they are enjoying today had its methods lifted from the first chapter of the Bible during the Reformation, and I heard that from a former atheist - in fact, that was what shocked the atheist when he started reading the Bible from page 1 (Genesis 1).

finofaya: This is ridiculous.

Are you trying to find out how gullible christians are?

There is nothing new about heliocentrism. It has been around for centuries. Apparently you fell for the title of the articles you linked. All that the articles say is that the earth's orbit is 3 dimensional, not 2D. But who didn't know that already?

There is absolutely no new information in any of those articles. What is the new development that you based your claim on? The articles are directed at people who may have had the wrong picture of the earth's orbit, and they distorted the headline to make sure they got an audience. Didn't you notice that there is no mention of 'bible' in the two articles?

BraveGuy, you should not have fallen for this.

What is the relevance of that bible verse you quoted, anyway?

Sometimes, I like your comments, because they make laugh much (I love that emoticon - Facebook pales because of this emoticon ).

Atheists and Muslims are always saying that the verse was wrong and that it proves that the Bible was faulty and unscientific. Besides, we have been taught to believe that the Sun was stationary and it was the Earth that was moving. But the Bible says the Sun rises and goes down - moving.

Finofaya, my friend, I studied Geology, most of the theories they taught me had holes in them, this one doesn't.

Mystery - The Earth Does Not Orbit The Sun
You've Been Conditioned To Think FALSELY..... Earth is not revolving around the Sun (the way you think)! - Wonderful new theory that makes a lot of sense: Earth and all the planets of our solar system, are following the Sun in a heliocentric movement. The entire Universe is in motion & Expanding. So, our closest stars are most certainly moving in the same direction as we do.

We should also keep in mind that space is very-very vast. The distances are so huge that our brains can't relate to them. In space we speak of billions of light years. In 10,000 "Earth-years" there are no significant changes. Our recent history has about 6,000 years, and the human life span is about 70 years. What do we know? We are barely begin to learn & we must be very open minded. The process of learning should never stop. Those who don't accept new ideas, are in fact obstructing evolution. That's why there's always a "conflict" between the old & new generations. We have to accept new theories and work with them in a constructive way.

Details & Data:
Earth Is Not Orbiting The Sun in the way we were taught More to do with Something Wrong With The Sun Moon & Earth series. Here we find an understanding of Why the Earth & our solar system do not actually orbit the Sun as taught, "Rather", We follow or better still, are dragged by the Sun in a Spiral Pattern through the universe & time.

This video offers explanations how, besides spinning on its axis and rotating as if going 'Around' the Sun, the Earth is shown to 'Follow' the Sun's movement through the Milky Way galaxy, in a continuous Spiral, not a Flat elliptical plane, thus we find a 3D universe as opposed to the accepted 2D.

** Believe it or not, there is no empirical evidence that the Earth actually orbits the sun ! **

This compilation of videos runs thus:

"The solar system's motion thru space by The Resonance Project / Nassim Haramein"

This simple animation was created by Nassim Haramein and The Resonance Project Foundation

This is a video clip that every human should see.

Many of us have been taught about how the solar system works by viewing a physical model that has the sun in the middle with the planets going around and around in a simple circular orbit without properly accounting for the motion of the sun (aprox. 450,000 miles per hour).

Because the both sun and the galaxy are moving through space, the Earth spirals an incredible distance through space in a year's time. How far the Earth moves depends on the reference point you are using for something "stationary" or "background" even though all objects in the universe are in motion.

The Earth rotates at 0-1040 mi/hr (depends on latitude)
The Earth orbits the sun at aprox. 66,629 mi/hr
The sun orbits the galactic centre at aprox. 447,000 mi/hr

In just considering how fast the sun is moving, we know the Earth travels at least 3,918,402,000 miles in a years time! (as it also orbits around the sun)

Total speed of the Earth moving through space is difficult to approximate do to the combination of motions.
Using Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB) radiation it is estimated the total motion of the Earth through space is aprox. 1,342,000 mi/hr
Or 11,763,972,000 miles in 1 year!
(which is still only 0.2% the speed of light!)

The old model might make one picture being back where you started after a year of time has past, when in fact, you are over 11 BILLION miles from where you were a year ago!

I hope this video helps people to visualize what the motion of the Earth in our solar system looks like.

Psalm 113:3 From the rising of the sun unto the going down of the same the LORD'S name is to be praised.

It is even easier to understand if you watch this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6jBK1ZV-qs

For more information on Nassim Haramein and The Resonance Project, please visit:
http://www.theresonanceproject.org"

http://www.youtube.com/user/EarthPilgrims

See more at: http://humansarefree.com/2011/03/earth-is-not-revolving-around-sun.html#sthash.A25FdrAN.dpuf
http://agreenroad..co.uk/2013/09/mystery-earth-does-not-orbit-sun-in-2.html

TheBigUrban2:
If they were to ban someone for comments, you would go.
Half of what you wrote up there is false, the other is just abuse.
Go and sleep
It is not my fault that your arguments were nonsense

Then put up a decent rebuttal instead these empty noises.
All I'm hearing is just the noise of an empty barrel. No substance!

TheBigUrban2:

Close the chapter

You're such a disruptive character and have no respect for orderliness nor reason; all you do is just post mindless gibberish. There are people who want to engage in genuine conversation, but because you have nothing intellectually meaningful to contribute coupled with a gall of bitterness within you, which you desire others to partake, you do your best to disrupt.

What a sad life!

I wonder why moderators allow such disruptful and disrespectful people like you on the forums. All you do is insult and disrupt.

@Kay17 and any reasonable person, reply otherwise I am about to close this chapter.

Some people are simply arguing without reasoning. Due to the faceless Internet, people hide behind the Internet to exercise all kinds of insult due to their angry disposition.

TheBigUrban2:

The things you have said are not worth replying to.
You are as delusional as they (religious nutjobs) come.
You have a strong relationship with an imaginary character (God).
Well, answer some questions about this your God that you have a relationship with;

-what does he look like?
-what does he sound like? (what accent does he use)
-what does he like talking about?

You're such an angry man.
What happened to you?

Your problem is not what I write, because you are yet to refute ONE of my arguments so far, but you're always trying to desperately change topics when you feel cornered.

Weah96:

LOL. Even Braveguy doesn't buy most of the shtick that he tries to sell here. Give him time, he will be overpowered by common sense.

Weah96, you don't know who you are dealing with. I guess you're trying to look at me with your own mirror. No, you've got it very wrong, bro. I am in involved in some brainwashed religion. I am in a strong relationship with the Creator. If you have had a few experiences as such as I have had, you won't even think along those lines.

You're not refuting what I posted except throw tantrums like a child. Why don't you just grow up and make some reasonable comments and if you agree either keep quiet or say so, be humble.

TheBigUrban2:

The bold has never come to pass

Another prophecy is the one concerning the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, which was uttered by the Lord Jesus Christ. This was concerning the destruction of Jerusalem, we read:

Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. For the days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation (Luke 19:41-44 – NKJ)

Yes, it has. Check your historical records very well. Here is a Google search link
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1AVNC_enGB559GB559&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=destruction%20of%20jerusalem

IN PICTURES:
https://www.google.com/search?q=destruction+of+jerusalem&rlz=1C1AVNC_enGB559GB559&espv=2&tbm=isch&imgil=FRMYZREQ5xX6cM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcRQBdfeFCf2NXB6wbBdwUFZt0ZjRoR8BGZ0vR36IGI76hGQeFCq%253B2024%253B1480%253Br3VlVANFGjrSXM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fen.wikipedia.org%25252Fwiki%25252FTisha_B%27Av&source=iu&usg=__lxUQUI15VbJSkQUeOWmirr00n5A%3D&sa=X&ei=dXzNU4vZMKO57AaZ4YCIDQ&ved=0CJsBEP4dMAw&biw=1720&bih=824#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=FRMYZREQ5xX6cM%253A%3Br3VlVANFGjrSXM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fupload.wikimedia.org%252Fwikipedia%252Fcommons%252Fb%252Fb7%252FFrancesco_Hayez_017.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fen.wikipedia.org%252Fwiki%252FTisha_B'Av%3B2024%3B1480

Kay17:

BUT what are your answers?

That is a lot. Where do we begin?

Let me start from here - So what makes the Bible stand out?

There is the PROPHETIC Proof.
There are many prophecies in the Bible which have been fulfilled to the letter. Prophecies concerning the rise and fall of the Babylonian Empire, the Persian Empire, the Greek Empire and the Roman Empire are all mentioned in the Book of Daniel, Chapter 2.

Another prophecy is the one concerning the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, which was uttered by the Lord Jesus Christ. This was concerning the destruction of Jerusalem, we read:

Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. For the days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation (Luke 19:41-44 – NKJ)

This is one of the things that makes the Bible to stand out.

mazaje:

Pure crap, even you yourself interpret the bible personally. . .Every chgristian does that that is why there is no universal biblical doctrine and genuine christians disagree all the time over basic issues. . .Christians are yet to agree on the basic nature of Jesus, while some say he is god and god's son at the same time, others say he is god's son alone and is different from god himself. . How salvation can be achieved is also a major cause of disagreement. . NL religious section is filled with all these disagreements among the christian body, the funny thing is that all of them quote the bible and lay claim to the holy spirit when making their claims. . .Confused people. . .

Yes, I understand your frustration with all these differences of opinions. As in any family, there are always people with different opinions. The key thing is that there are some things, which have eternal consequences and others don't. For example, the buidling where you worship with others is not eternally consequential. But someone who says because I am a Christian I can still go and fornicate will suffer eternal consequences for his actions.

See this:
2 Peter 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
2 Peter 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

So, it doesn't matter you are, Pope or bench-warmer, if you try to twist it to your own pleasure, the person is setting himself up for the consequences. That is one of the reasons the Word of God has been described as a sharp two-edged sword. If you handle it well, you won't get hurt, but handle it wrongly to your own peril.

TheBigUrban2:

Abegi

When a bible story is pointed out to be false, it becomes an allegory.
However, christians contradict themselves

Adam and Eve story
-British Christains; it is an allegorical/metaphorical story of creation. Deeper meaning.
-Nigerian Christians; It happened. I am a descendant of Adam (despite being a black man).
-American Evangelists; It is literally true. Jesus believed in Adam...I believe it too



Confused souls

No bi beggin matta now, everythin dey for Scriptures.

I like the fact that you can cite instances, what about the explanation given by Paul in Galatians 4?

Even if Iran Christian adds his twist to it and Zulu land Christian contributes his own. True Bible interpretation is not to personal pleasure. It's not that one day it is red because I like red colour and another day it is blue because I favour blue for that season. Such a person is doing it to his own detriment.

The Bible is of NO PRIVATE INTERPRETATION.... 2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Weah96:

He knows this.

I like the fact that you can cite instances, what about the explanation given by Paul in Galatians 4?

The truth of the matter here is that you see people practicing religion and you conclude that it is what the Bible tells them to do and the actual Bible you never try to examine it for yourself. Or you just regurgitate what you read or hear others say; you need to critically examine things for yourself, bro. That way, you can make an informed decision.

Apatheist:
The bolded contradicts itself. you say they are allegories, yet they happened. do you know the meaning of the word 'allegory '?

I guess you are either too lazy to check your dictionary or can't Google it. Here it is:

al·le·go·ry
ˈaləˌgôrē/Submit
noun
a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one.
"Pilgrim's Progress is an allegory of the spiritual journey"
synonyms: parable, analogy, metaphor, symbol, emblem More
a symbol.

And also read this:
Galatians 4:22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman.
Galatians 4:23 But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise.
Galatians 4:24 Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar.

True stories but with hidden meanings.

Weah96:

We're talking about resurrected people, not the living.

In that case, Jesus was the FIRST resurrected from the dead and we have His testimonies. Read the whole of John 21, you will see His testimonies there.

achovirux: .

Bros pls tell me which religion that does not lie or what what you think I should believe if all this religions are all man made full of lies.WAITING to hear from you.

Yes, ALL religions do have lies.

But you must also know that True Christianity is not a religion.

ROSSIKE:

Firstly, the name is Constantine not Constantinople.

In fact, the fact that you don't even know the name of the person who directed the contents of the bible is enough to show that you're completely CLUELESS, and have done zero research into the stuff you worship - a near unforgivable crime in my book.

As for the rest of the stuff you typed, if you think the various books of the bible all 'confirm' one another, that's just another proof of your absolute cluelessness with regard to a book that is known to contain literally THOUSANDS of contradictions and discrepancies.

You are saying this as if you're an authority on the Bible. Amazing, so Constantine is the person who directed the contents of the Bible (was that for a movie or what)?

Tell me which part is contradictory?

Yes, I agree with him, in fact, ALL the 66 Books of the Bible have one common topic, Jesus Christ.

Yes, you will get thousands, if not millions, of contradictions and discrepancies in the Bible, do you know why? Because the natural man does not understand the things of God as they are only spiritually discerned.

plaetton: ^^^^^
Threats, threats and more threats!
Is there anything else that your religion offers humanity other than threats of eternal hell fire?

Please take time to really study your religion. You would soon realize that even hell fire does not make any sense.

That is where you have missed it BIG TIME, true Christianity is not a religion, it is a relationship a person has with His Maker through the redemptive work of Jesus Christ.

You must have a lot of misconception about Christianity. Religion is a very different concept. It can easily be said that True Christianity and the Christian religion are the same thing. No, they are not, they are as the North Pole to the South Pole. The Christian religion is the scam, because it is an off-spin of the genuine thing. On the outside they look alike, but on the inside, they are vastly different. How do you know the difference? "By their fruits you shall know them". Just observe them, the one that is TRULY like the Bible you read (character-based) is the genuine, while the other just has the form and show of godliness, so much work (activities), but lacking in character. That is why you can have so-called priests that are intimate predators! They dress nice outside and engage in charitable works, but they are worse than ravening wolves.

Warnings about Hell Fire is not a matter threats. Jesus was also very clear on this subject.
Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

So, is it a threat to warn or remind people that they are heading in the wrong direction?

For example, if there is a house is on fire and you see a friend/neigbour/relative who is blind or drunk heading straight into that blaze, what would you do, pretend as if it's none of your business or do all within your power to help save him?

Yes, I admit, we sometimes go overboard with it, but won't you do the same for a loved one even if the person would slap or puke on you? I am sure you would take all the dirt and save a life!

Apatheist:
Of course, things that don't make sense in the Bible are allegorical.
I guess the flood, Adam and eve et al were "allegorical"

Not all are allegorical.

I don't blame you because even most Christians are blind to this fact, despite the Bible saying this repeatedly. You can't use the mentality of history in science, you will fail woefully. So also, you can't use the natural mentality to understand the spiritual, you will fail as well.

One thing you must know is that the Old Testament, while they happened as true events, are all an allegory. And to understand the New Testament, you need to understand the allegory of the Old Testament. For example,

John 2:18 So the Jews said to him, "What sign do you show us for doing these things?"
John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."
John 2:20 The Jews then said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?"
John 2:21 But he was speaking about the temple of his body.
John 2:22 When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.

There was a physical temple/tabernacle in the Old Testament, but Jesus was now telling them that the true temple is actually the human being himself. They got offended at this and even used it to accuse Him during His trials.

So, I don't blame you for not understanding this either. But, at least, now you know.

Weah96: Is that a testimony from Lazarus? Dude, now you're beginning to show your true Christian colors. Did you not post the testimonies of people who had NDEs here? They usually describe heaven and Jesus face and the texture of his hair and things like that. How come we never heard from Lazarus? Or Jarius daughter? Or the dude who fell out the window when Paul was having his revival ceremony?

I am happy that you know your Bible that much to cite these three instances. But like I said earlier, you can't take one part and reject the others.

What about instances, such as when Stephen was being stoned to death and he revealed that he saw heaven opened, and Jesus Christ was there to receive Him? What about instances, such as Paul who had out-of-body experiences and he saw things that were too marvelous for him to talk about? Or what about the case of John the apostle on the Isle of Patmos, who had several out-of-body experiences that culminated in the Book of Revelation?

It is all or nothing.

Apatheist: Dapo777,do you remember this thread?
www.nairaland.com/1362765/lies-told-jesus

I just read a few comments on that thread, a user called Joagbaje gave a good answer; in the end, there is a particular mentality that is needed to read and understand the Bible, but unfortunately not many get to that level. It may seem a harsh comment, it's just the truth.

For example, one the key points is that

Rossikk: He even goes so far as to say that mountains and trees can be thrown into the sea simply by praying for it.

Jesus was not saying that in a literal way, it is allegorical.

Mountains and trees are allegorically the troubles and trials of life.

And Joagbaje rightly summed it up this way:

1 Corinthians 2:14
For the natural man is not able to take in the things of the Spirit of God: for they seem foolish to him, and he is not able to have knowledge of them, because such knowledge comes only through the Spirit.

Weah96:
OK, so you know what happens when people die? Good for you. Isn't that a tad bit arrogant, considering we're all alive? More significant is the fact that even the authors of the bible were very careful not to include the testimony of resurrected characters in it. Jews don't believe it, the Torah being especially silent on the afterlife. But you do? And you wave a book around. That's raw arrogance.

One major thing about the Christian belief system (and I am not talking of the religious system), is that it's either 100% true or 100% false. There is no middle ground. You either believe it wholly or you don't believe it all. So, on that basis, I can commend you so-called atheist (if you really are) or agnoticists for not accepting it at all instead accepting 50% and rejecting the remaining 50%, unlike some of the so-called Christians who go to warm the church chair every Sunday and afterwards live as if they have nothing to do with the Bible.

You are inaccurate to say the testimonies of resurrected characters were not included in the Bible. Lazarus, the brother of Mary and Martha, had died for four days before Jesus Christ raised him from the dead and we have this record of him:
John 12:9 Much people of the Jews therefore knew that he was there: and they came not for Jesus' sake only, but that they might see Lazarus also, whom he had raised from the dead.
John 12:10 But the chief priests consulted that they might put Lazarus also to death;
John 12:11 Because that by reason of him many of the Jews went away, and believed on Jesus.

You are very right to come up with such questions, and even the Bible encourages it. If you read the Bible very well, you will discover that God does encourage us to ask questions, and beautifully enough, He has answered most of life's questions in the Bible.

No, it is not arrogance to know what happens when someone dies. It is perfectly acceptable to ask these questions. See this example:

Matthew 22:24 Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
Matthew 22:25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:
Matthew 22:26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.
Matthew 22:27 And last of all the woman died also.
Matthew 22:28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.
Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Matthew 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
Matthew 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

That is a glimpse of life after death, so you are aware of the potential life you will live after death. Christianity does not make you senile, in fact, it's the opposite.

Kay17: @braveguy
@mazaje
@weah96

Let's all focus on just one issue.

That is the authorship of the Bible. It is the most important issue, since the Bible is the only validation for the Christian God. If the Akannile girl or whatever has visions, it can either be from the Devil or God, so her visions are immaterial. Better still, God can plant visions in all our heads, if he wishes to.

My take on the issue of the authorship of the Bible is: the Bible as confirmed by braveguy himself, is written/chalked down by humans albeit under INSPIRATION from God. The manner of proving the inspiration is a sub-issue. However it is clear that in the perspective of the biblical writers they believe they were inspired. They have their opinion as to what Divine Inspiration means, but most importantly there is no external nor objective criteria of divine Inspiration!

So the Bible is nothing more than the self confessions of its writers. That's my take. Pls provide yours.

I almost missed this comment.

Undoubtedly, the authorship of the Bible, especially the current Bible that we have is one of the most hotly contested topics in Christendom, however, it comes only after it has been agreed or confirmed that, at least, there must be an Intelligent Designer behind the Universe. If there is, then there must be some sort of instruction (like a manual to a machinery) as to the Creation He has made. If that also is agreed, then we are faced with numerous religious texts that purport to be from this Almighty God, among which you have the Bible.
So what makes the Bible stand out?
How was it written?
Who actually wrote it?
Can it be trusted?
If we say it was divinely inspired what does that really mean?
How do we know that the writers were not just writing from the figment of their imaginations?

These are just a few things we can consider in tackling this topic.

Chrisbenogor:
This is a topic I wish can be discussed here. I mean discussed and not bashed. I think I am at the point where I am no longer angry with religion, personally I think it is a huge misconception rather than a huge scam.

I would like to take the discussion out of this thread though, just a simple thread to understand the history behind the bible, the accepted scholarly theories worldwide devoid of any divine mysteries. At least that way people can learn about the history of the bible in one place. Should be interesting.

Good idea.

As a Christian, I must say though, that there is a lot of misconception about Christianity. Religion is a very different concept. It can easily be said that True Christianity and the Christian religion are the same thing. No, they are not, they are as the North Pole to the South Pole. The Christian religion is the scam, because it is an off-spin of the genuine thing. On the outside they look alike, but on the inside, they are vastly different. How do you know the difference? "By their fruits you shall know them". Just observe them, the one that is TRULY like the Bible you read (character-based) is the genuine, while the other just have the form and show of godliness, so much work (activities), but lacking in character. That is why you can have so-called priests that are sexual predators! They dress nice outside and engage in charity works, but they are worse than ravening wolfs.

Yes, I would like to discuss such a subject, except that my time on NL may be restricted due to work.