₦airaland Forum

Then I have kept my vows-by keeping the Lord by my side.

OLAADEGBU:
The vows you made to God.

What vows are you talking about?

OLAADEGBU:
Pay your vows, don't let avarice make you be like that rich oil tychoon.

But its sad you feel this way, I have read all what you have written, but I don't agree with everything you have to say.
With your way of thinking I myself don't believe you are even a born again Christian-and why do you even believe in the bible-if you believe this all happen 2000 years ago, and nothing will happen in this day and age.
I remember listening to a Roman Catholic priest and he also didn't believe in these last day events, he stood proud mocking the word of God and those who believed, in front of the atheist on Television.
I take the word of God seriously, and if this all happened back than, then the bible will be just a storybook-nothing else-No spiritual life, No truth, No nothing.
Matthew 24: Mark and Luke reads out pretty clear to me, and when I read the end times prophesies, and I hear of the changes that are happening at a faster rate around the world, with the evidence the world has showing us, the technology the world has produce'd across our nations, I say we are heading towards that tribulation the lord had told us about.
Matthew 24: 21 "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, "No" nor shall be.
And you believe this had already happened when Jesus was crucified Jesus said>No-one has ever seen before, and if you are a person who is open-you yourself would know the lord was talking about our days, we live in these end of days. Not back then.
And these end times warnings are happening in this day and age-the technology we have now, wasn't around back then, not only do I believe but the world has shown us evidence we are in the end of days today, these are the days the lord has warned us about-not back then-but now.

paxonel:
in all my post in this thread the summary is
End time or last days according to Matthew 24 did not say that it will happen in our present generation or any generation in our future.
But rather, Jesus, after explaining what will happen (which has already happened in that generation he was talking to his disciples, not our current generation ) he said in
Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation( that generation he was talking to his disciples which was about 2000 years ago ) shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
then he told his disciples to be ready for his crucifixion , not us
24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh(the son of man came that 2000 years ago, but the people of that generation didn't know he was the one ).
we ought to distinguish Jesus coming to be crucified for the sins of mankind which is this Matthew 24:44 from the coming of Jesus for the final judgment in
Revelation 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
which refered to death, the day we all will die Jesus will come and judge us
it appointed once for men to die, after that, judgment.
I think, the problem is, our current day Christians are too apprehensive, claiming that Matthew 24 prophesies refered to us this current generation that it is talking about rapture in our future times, which is not true
By this, they create unnecessary fear on people's mind.
There is nothing like rapture
As for the Matthew 24:21-22, revelation 3:10 and
Mark 13:20 you quoted
i will really like to expanciate how Daniel prophesied about the great tribulation which is the abomination of desolation in the book of daniel. which he refered to the time jesus will come and die for the sins of mankind, so that you may understand properly .
But, i don't want to write plenty things again because you will not read it

So do you believe in Matthew Mark and Luke when Jesus was talking about the end time events happening now' and coming our way.
In Christ I am not afraid, my argument "is" why do Christians believe they will be Rapture'd before the tribulation, and not after.
With the scriptures people have shared with me, doesn't seem to match up with the rapture theory.
These two scriptures below would be my best shot to the rapture theory-but the problem with these two is, we will have to go through the tribulation period.
Matthew 24:21-22 "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the word until this time, no, nor ever shall be. "And unless those days were shortened, No flesh would be saved; but for the elects sake those days will be shortened.
In Mark 13:20 "And unless the lord had shortened those days, No flesh would be saved; but for the elects sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days.
As you can see these two verses line up with each other, until Jesus say's in Mark whom He chose's to shortened those days. That again tells me, this is not the rapture theory.
There are too many scriptures that follow after these, I can't seem to find verses to prove we will be rapture'd before the tribulation, and already people are suffering around the world, as centuries past many have lost their lives for the Lord.

Many of the believers gave me Revelation 3:10 "which says Jesus will keep you safe from the hour of trial-and to me this scripture matches up, when Jesus says, he will never leave us, or we could read about Noah and Lot when the lord had kept them both safe, from the hour of testing that happen on the earth back then.

paxonel:
the sign of the Son of Man will appear
from heaven is not talking about our present day or our future times..it is talking about jesus resurrection that happen 2000 years ago.
Jesus told his disciples he will appear from heaven before he was crucified.
But after the crucifixion he resurrected with great power and glory.
that is the meaning of "the son of man will appear from heaven
The son of man will appear from heaven is a figurative language which means Jesus brought down heaven on earth, that heaven is Christianity on earth.
remember, Jesus founded Christianity on earth the day he resurrected.
figurative languages are defined by english dictionary as expressions that are not in their normal literal meaning but in a way that makes a
description more interesting or impressive.
may be the word heaven is impressing you people.
All the tribes of the heaven will mourn means all the tribes will behold the son of man lifted on the cross just like moses lifted the serpent in the wilderness which literally means all tribes (both Jews and gentiles, not only the Jews ) will believe God through the crucifixion, through Jesus.
It has already started happening.
Billions of adherents of Christianity are living world wide today, including me and you, not only the Jews.
This is the power and glory of Jesus he was talking about.
This is also the meaning of the saying that he shall send his angels to gather his elects from the four corners(all nations ) of the earth.
we are the elects
we have already been gathered.
By identity we are already part of that kingdom by our faith.
the trumpet there is not rapture.
it is figurative language which means to call.
we were called using trumpet, gathered by faith, not by physical gathering or some kind of physical disappearance of people.
And the hope of our calling is for us to live eternal life here on earth.
john 3:16.
So, right now, we are living in the total will of God, how God want it to be.
No need to be afraid of this present world and envisage rapture or some kind of heaven beyond the clouds.
we should remain here, work hard and explore this world and replenish it with love in our heart

Matthew 24:29-31 "Tells us which of the following-"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
"Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear from heaven {other words to be at present} and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. "And He will send His angels with a sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together his elect.
Then He continual's to say in V's 37 "But as the days of Noah were so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
So is the Lord is now saying everyone {the tares and the wheat}will see the Son of Man coming as in the day's of Noah 'before the end?

Scholar8200:
The persecution of the saints you alluded to has taken and is still taking place today. we need to differentiate between the coming of Christ in the rapture (1 Thess 4:17,18) and the coming of Christ to establish the Millenium.(Revelations 19:11-21 and Revelations 20)

As twisted as this sounds, I believe pastors who teach on the rapture theory, should at least tell it as the bible had written it.
I myself was taught the Rapture was before the tribulation-I never really understood the rapture message-and I still don't believe other believers fully understand it either.
It has been taught by the pastors-and like the tithing theory no-one in Church has questioned it. None of the scriptures line up with the rapture before the tribulation.
Revelation 3:10 "Which say's Jesus will keep us safe from the hour of testing. Again I can't find any evidence in this verse that the Lord is talking about the rapture.
Matthew 24:37 "As its was in the days of Noah so it will be also at the coming of the son of man, and in the day of Lot.
We have all read this story and the Lord kept them both safe from the hour of trials, while the rest of the world died either in the flood, or with meteorites that fell from the skies. No rapture.
This again shows me we will see these things happen, and those who endures to the end shall be saved.
Matthew 13:24:39 "Jesus had pointed it out that the harvest will be at the end of this age. First gather up the tares and throw them into the fire, and than gather up the wheat and put them into barns.
The tares are the people who refuses God-and the wheat is the elect.
Matthew 24:9 "And they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, for My name sake, many will betray one another and hate one another, many false prophets will raise up and deceive many, and because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will go cold. But he who endures to the end' shall be saved. And then the gospel will be preached to all the world as a witness to all the nations and then the end will come.
This scripture tells me, I believe the Rapture theory will turn the church against the church in the last days, Christians are not ready to go through the tribulation and many believers will turn against the pastors, and betray the lord, Jesus says those who endure to the the end shall be saved.
Christians have no understanding what's coming for the Christians. Already the world is turning upside down, and no-one is watching.
If we believed we will be delivered up in the rapture before the tribulation comes-Then I ask who is Jesus talking about, when he said they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you for His name sake? And if we were to be raptured before the tares, then why would the world hate their own, and kill them, for the sake of Jesus, if they didn't believe.
The world looks after their own without Jesus
The bible shows that the rapture is after the tribulation-not before.

johnw74:
I don't know, pre tribbers say before, post tribbers say after.

Matthew 13:24-43" V's 27 "So the servants of the owner came and said to him, "Sir did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares.
He said the them, An enemy has done this, the servants said to him, "Do you want us then to go and gather them up? "But he said, No lest, while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.
"Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the "TARES" and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.
V's 36" the disciples asked Jesus what He meant by this parable. V's 39 the enemy who sowed the tares into the field is the devil-The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.
Jesus said the angels will gather up the tares first and put them into the fire, and then the wheat will be taken into the barns.
So this means the rapture will be at the end of the age, not before.

Revelation 1:7 "When he comes every eye will see him, and also those who pierces him, and all the kindred of the earth shall wail because of Him.
Does this say, everyone will see Him-and then we are rapture'd with Christ after His angels takes the tares and throws them into the fire.
Two men will be in the field one will be taken the other one left-two women will be at the mill, one will be taken and the other one left. Is this scripture showing us again; the tares will be bundled up and throwing into the fire, before we meet the lord in the clouds at the end of the age.
But hey you don't have to listen to me, just read your bible, ask the Lord to show you, is their a rapture before the tribulation, are the Christians are being taught the truth about this rapture, or can anyone find fault in the scriptures, Or the tribulation theory isn't clear, when and what time the Lords said He is coming back for His Church. Before or after?

Its Like that other theory the Churches preach on tithing, and again that isn't scriptural.

Is this rapture before the tribulation, or after the tribulation?

johnw74:
Christ will return in like manner as He was taken up,
and those alive in Christ at the rapture will be taken up as Christ was:

Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.



Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.



1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord.

Well done, slowly but surely every Christian who see's this should be free from that tithing curse.

Naijastuv:
Please see the following. The word of God is clear but we let others tell us what it says instead of reading for ourselves


The Truth about Tithing by Pastor Antonio Thomas of Freedom Christian

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67wiZovdpl0

The truth about tithing - Malachi 3:10


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN8hf5vD4Hc

Tithing & New Testament Giving - Tithes & Offerings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHXs5lKCiVQ

No More Tithing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfeDi5E16P0

Is that the hypocritical doctrine on tithing monies' you are referring too All is there another?

dharmieee:
He simply lacks an understanding of the bible.This is apparent in all he does.TB Joshua is not the owner of the tithe,it God's.God is not a partial God,his rules apply to all and sundry.You give God your tithe because you love him.Any doctrine outside the bible is baseless and hypocritical

Everyone seems to look at a bigger picture when its time to give-the Lord said: you only have to believe as big as a mustard seed, {just as long as you believe} The women gave all what she had-because she believed-Your belief had caused you to write this message "so others can receive.
It shows Jesus wrote a bigger passage about the poor old woman because she gave all what she had, and yet he wrote very little about anybody who tithed, matter of fact Jesus didn't say anything good about anyone who tithed back then-Matthew 23-shows us clearly he continualed to rebuke the Pharisees on everything they done, and tithing was part of that everything.
The truth "is" the Lord wanted the farmers and herdsmen to support the Levite priesthood.
Tithing wasn't for everybody, and tithing was never about some-ones income..

Its sad when we hear and see' our very own preachers-pastors and priest in Churches today-are using that same old Technic a brainwashing tool so believers believe that 10% of their weekly wage belongs to God.

maintainval:
Tithe is ten percent of your income, so what the man did is correct. The whole money are income/profit, he didn't borrow it so he supposed to pay tithe on it. The poor are not exempted in tithing. There is no condition in tithing it is a straight foward instruction. When Jesus saw a widow that gave offering he didn't return it to her. It is obedient to instruction of God. I wish I can obey like that.
May God help us all.

In this day and age, already a war had began-are you watching.
{Chem trials}Governments spraying poison Gases into our airways right under our noses. The secret society on terror, has began within our national governing systems. Governing plans to murder 95% of the worlds population.
Chemical warfare, decease's used against humanity, a war that no-man has seen before.

Time is running out and at full speed-the war on Agenda 21-Marshal law is on the rise to strike. Neighbouring countries against neighbour no-longer exist.
The war on humanity has began, your lands your homes, your families, finances, Foods, clothing, fuel-Gas, Gases, rentals, employment in the lows, etc, leaving your families-friends and neighbouring country men-hungry and destitute, having no place to go.

Slowly but surely our freedom, will no-longer exist-A new beginning, a new law has now been written, innocent people from all over the world are{slowly but surely}are prolonged under prison authority' a system put in place that a crime has no-crime, either prolonged in prison or under Fema camps until such notice, you will take the mark of the beast, a rice chip that will be planted underneath your skin either in your hand or either your forehead-your crime, has no crime. {Hitler once said: to own a country you must disarm it first}
Revelation 14:9 "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on His forehead or on his hand "he himself shall also drink the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. And he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the Lamb.

This mark is as big as a rice chip-planted in ones hand or forehead, that's controlled by the push of a button-a computer system, they call the beast, this devise, works the same as having the atom bomb planted inside you. This mark is open for business.
You either take the mark a Chip planted underneath your skin' Or without warning you will die under the guillotine.

Jesus said this will happen in the bible, and slowly but surely its spreading across our nations, people from all over the world are receiving the mark-its a choice now-but soon it will be under the law-and if you don't know Christ and you refuse the mark, you will surely die-and end up in burning Hell for eternity with these lost souls who are receiving the mark.

But if you accept Jesus into your hearts and believe he is the Christ-then say this prayer. only Jesus can save you from what is coming.
Lord come into my heart, I believe you had died for my sins, I believe God had raised you from the dead, I strongly believe you are my Lord and saviour, and I am washed with the blood of the lamp, I now chose to walk as you walk in strength, wisdom and knowledge. I now receive the Holy Spirit to enter into my life and teach me the word of God. Amen.
Psalm 23:4 "As I walk through the shadows of death I will fear no evil.
Are you watching?

hahn:
If you are to judge all animals by their ability to climb a tree, you will always end up with the wrong conclusion.

There were even more consistent wars then and even some of these wars have followed us into this age. Back in the day, the bow and arrow were considered the hallmark of weaponry so comparing both weapons does not really make much of a difference. It just means that wars can be more easily won.

Afterall, there has never been in history a war were both sides were bombing each other with atomic bombs as consistently as they would have done if they were using swords

Mark 7:5 "Shows a better light on the matter, men will prefer to follow after the elders traditions' more then they would prefer to follow after God's.
Many will confess Jesus is Lord-with their lips, but their hearts is far away from Him and in vain they worship Him,Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.
For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men..
So you see, this isn't just one Church; this is talking about all Churches.

italo:
Brocab, olaadegbu, johnw74, honour him and other anti-Catholic leeches will pretend not to see their protestant/pentecostal pastor...

They are busy looking for fake faults in Catholics.

Maybe "but you need to understand-when we hear people from centuries back until now' all over the world talking about these same old issues, then maybe there is hidden truth underneath it all.
Even Pope Francis has been pleading with other Churches to forgive them of all the wrongs the Roman Catholic Church had done over the centuries.
When we read Matthew 24: Luke 21: and Mark 13: We can see the Lord has told us before hand, that in these last days will come, and are already here-Many false Prophets have come into the world saying I am he, and will mislead many. And when you hear of wars and rumours of wars, do not be frightened those things must take place. {And already these things are happening in this generation}
And the Lord has been pouring out His dreams and visions-reaching out to His People given us warnings these things are coming and already they are here today.
Name calling others leeches-is a bit over the top-I suppose its like calling someone a mad dog? And if you believe Jesus is coming back, with His angels "as its written" then you can believe people are searching for answers in these very last hours.
Even if it does mean all Churches have there own faults, people will always find the answers within.

And still until this day' from centuries back many Churches are refusing to obey the word of God.
Look at your Church, you bow down to a Mary statue-isn't this classed as idol worship? God said don't worship idols, {But you still do it.}
And look at the Church above, on this heading-Pastors making people eat their own hair, where is God in this picture.

italo:
Brocab, olaadegbu, johnw74, honour him and other anti-Catholic leeches will pretend not to see their protestant/pentecostal pastor...

They are busy looking for fake faults in Catholics.

Check this out, this shows the Church is denying the Word of God, so people will come together under the New World Religion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfQ33qOy-JI

Your story sounded good at first-but when you stated that Christian's should give their tithes and offerings, then your story went to the ruining's.
Firstly, what I don't understand is, why did the Lord take you to Hell, allowing the burning man to tell you these lies' about tithes and offerings. Why would Jesus go back on His word-When in fact the Lord has an army of believers here on earth to preach to you about the truth.
In fact He even wrote a book called the bible.

Luke 16:20-31 "The story of the poor man Lazarus and the rich man both died and buried, Lazarus was in the bosom of Abraham and the rich man was in burning hell, crying out-Father Abraham have mercy on me, send Lazarus that he may dip a tip of his finger of water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
The rich man then begged Abraham to send Lazarus back from the dead and testify to the brothers of the rich man, and Abraham said they have Moses and the Prophets, let them hear them. So like Abraham said: if they do not hear one of today's prophets-why would they hear you, "after you came back from hell

It is not scriptural what you claim in the new testament of the bible, verse after verse, scriptures after scriptures proves tithing was O/Testament. Why would someone like you' offer themselves, taken a risk, just to gain tithes and offerings of somebodies livelihood?
Using fear tactic's, to gain monies from the poor.
We believers have been around for too long, and I'm sure we have studied the word to know better, their are to many wolves roaming from Church to Church, making up stories, like yours.
Tithing was used for food and stocks; to feed the Livite priesthood, and the hungry.

favourmic:
The Lord took me, and we rapidly descended from heaven into a tunnel of hell, just like the first time when I experienced Hell. I said, "Oh! Lord, what is happening?" Jesus said, "I have something to show you in hell," "But Lord I don't want to be here. Lord, remember our first experience, you already showed me many things", He said, "Yes My child, but now different things I will show you."

We went down among flames once more, and I started to cry. It was not easy to be there. I said, "Lord, I want to get out of here, please help me, help me". I heard millions of people, some were saying, "Oh Lord, have mercy on me, help me please, Lord, give me another chance."

Among all those people, I heard someone saying, "I ask for your forgiveness now Lord, because I have stolen from you, forgive me for stealing, I stole from You Lord and I do not want to do it again." I asked, "Lord, who is he and why does he say he stole from You?" "My child I will show you who he is." We entered his cell and I saw a disfigured man. The flames opened up and I could see that he was being tormented.

All those people who are in hell have a plaque on their chest, and 666 on their forehead. This man extended his hand and said, "Lord forgive me." I asked, "Why are you here, why are you asking for forgiveness from the Lord, why? You say you have stolen from God, but nobody can steal from God? This is impossible, why do you say you have stolen from Him?" He replied, "I'll tell you my story...I was a Christian leader, for 20 years I had known Christ, but during the 20 years I said: all that money from my tithing and offerings were just to sustain the pastors, but I regret it because I now know that it wasn't for them, it was for the Lord, and that is why I say I have stolen from God ... At this very moment there are many people on Earth that are robbing the Lord like I did. When you return to Earth, tell all those people who don't want to give their tithes and offerings, not to steal from the Lord, otherwise, they’ll wind up in Hell, and no thief will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. I knew the Holy Word, now I regret it and realize I robbed the Lord." (Malachi 3: "Tell the people when they give to God, give the Lord with true love." (2 Cor 9:7) This man kept pleading, "Lord forgive me", and the Lord replied, "It is too late, there is no opportunity for you."

I asked the man, "But why did you rob God, why? You knew very well we cannot steal God’s tithes and offerings." He answered, "Yes, I knew very well, but never did follow it, I never did because I was a very proud man."

Don’t ever steal from the Lord, give your tithes and offerings to God because what we give the Lord on Earth it is not for men. When we give to God with all our heart, it is for the King of kings and Lord of lords.

The Bible says that the Lord tests us, it is clearly written in Malachi 3:8-10 You are cursed with the curse, for you are robbing Me, even this whole nation. Bring all the tithes (the whole tenth of your income) into the storehouse, that there may be food in My house, and prove Me now by it, says the Lord of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. If you want God to greatly bless your life and your family, then don’t ever steal from God. It’s time to bless God, so He can bless our lives.

The Lord said, "I will now show you something different." After leaving that place, the Lord reminded me of something that He showed me before my second experience, around November. At that time, I was shown Cells in Hell, and a specific Word.

The word 'ARVIERD' was shown to Angelica. Research shows it to be old Italian, or Latin. In research we found a 400 page ancient manuscript regarding this word, that spoke of a real Hell.

Slowly but surely, the word of God is spreading back into the Churches, its a matter of time when all the preachers-pastors even priest, will come to a stand still, and their money flow "will never be-like never before.
The Lord said He is the Word and the Truth and the Life, many who were lost, are now found.
Matthew 20:16 "The first will come last and the last will come first-and many are called but few are chosen
Amen.

dukecharles:
Tithing is an old law, and should not be practiced in the new testament.

Who cares what Martin Luther done-I don't follow after him, I follow after Christ.

btoks:
Ive just stated that sola scriptura doesn't work. isn't that what you do but come up with contradictory doctrines to your protestant oga- Martin Luther? E.g.Lutherans carry out infant baptism.