₦airaland Forum

Ubenedictus:
brocab stop lying, no institution did more to save jews that the catholic church, what did ur protestant church do? they keep quiet, it was the catholic church that hid jews in convents, monastrys, seminaries and church and gave the passport to escape, do u know how many catholic priest were praise by the jews for saving them? how many priest died defending jews? stop lying, liars will go to hell.

Emasearu:
No, I'm sorry but it doesn't. She received mercy from The Most High at the point of her conception, to prepare her for her future role as Mother of God. That's all I'm saying.
I think the Son was speaking generally there, because God Himself said Mary would be sinless (I'll show you what I mean when you've answered my previous questions).
Let me give an example: if you were walk into a classroom and you found the students there making a noise. You try to see the people making the noise but give up and leave, because the class is just too noisy. Wouldn't you be correct to say: "That class was too noisy"? You would. However, there could have been one or two persons who didn't join in the noise-making, right?

Thank you for replying. :-)

Emasearu:
I'm not saying Mary didn't need a redeemer. She did, because even though she was made free from sin, that didn't mean the price of Adam's disobedience had been paid for. God the Son still had to offer Himself up for "all" mankind. We agree on that. What we don't agree on is her Immaculate Conception. Let me ask you this: could God have created Mary without sin if He wanted to? Please think about it.

Emasearu:
I am a man. May I know your country's name? I've never heard about those things you said. So how can I verify them?

MuttleyLaff:
I appreciate you being nice. Thanks for your civility towards me

It is true that Jesus is ALWAYS on the scribes & Pharisees' case, critising them at every available opportunity
but hey bro, we arent talking of those other occasion nor talking about what transpired in Matthew 23
We are talking of and what I am interested specifically ONLY in, is ALL, that transpired in Mark 12:38-44
Let's stick to Mark 12:38-44 alone,
(i.e. being in the temple courts, opposite the treasury box,
the teaching of the crowd,
the warning about the scribes,
Left alone but now watching events at the treasury box
Calling over the disciples after spotting a strange thing happening
and commenting on the strange event)

You understood the message, depending on what you're paying attention to in that Scribe-Widow narrative. Okay? so now, please answer the following 4 questions below for me

#1 Did you not see the lack of fairness to the widow in the narrative?
#2 Did you not see the exploitation of a poor widow in the narrative?
#3 Was your attention not drawn to the fact that a poor widow was taken advantage of in the narrative?
#4 Did you not see an example sucking dry, an exact of what Jesus mentioned just a few verses, earlier in Mark 12:40, about widows' houses being devoured by scribes, happen in Mark 12:42 & Mark 12:44 in the narrative?

No, I am not saying the scribes made it a point to set up Jesus to watch a little old lady put in all she had

No, no no, scribes set nothing up
She put ''all'' in faith,
just like tithers give tithe by faith believing God will rebuke the devourer for them,
so that it will not destroy the fruits of their soil, and their vine in the field

MuttleyLaff:
It is not neccesary to try and start all over again

because I see the scripture, the way you see that scripture
but you dont seem to see what the scripture narrative really is all about

The way you see the scripture is plausible but what you see is not really what the scripture narrative is all about
Like I've previously said, the scripture narrative was about Jesus being in the temple courts, opposite where the treasury box is, teaching the crowd and warning them of the scribes
Telling the crowd about the scribes fake lifestyles and excesses of life
The scripture narrative also singled out the widows as examples of victims the scribes devour
It was after finishing the teaching and the crowd have dispersed,
that Jesus now by Himself was watching people go about dropping money into the treasury box
that He saw an injustice He just awhile earlier was criticising the scribes over, get being played out before His eyes
- shocking, a poor widow was allowed to drop all she had to live on into the treasury box

True, she dropped her all and rightly so her action was commended
but the truth of the matter, is that she was exploited by the system laid down by the scribes and was taking advantage off.
Not just an average or ordinary widow but a poor one for matter indoctrinated into emptying her all into the treasury box

Gombs:
Junia... I think this settles your question.

Can I tithe in peace now?

MuttleyLaff:
Kindly make your ''last page'' clearer for me then
whilst at it, follow the norm and standards for posting every like other poster adheres to

For the umpteenth time, I am not teaching and I aint your teacher

kaycpompey88:
Peercycler is a Helping Community with a new and innovative concept that makes it 100% sustainable & selfless, everybody is conceded equal. The first ever platform that reward members from their own pocket rather that seeking money from members..u get bonus paid as bitcoins.....join now its still early
http://www.peercycler.com/register/Jaykay

MuttleyLaff:
Thank you for editing your post to make it clearer
but if you say: Give "all" like how Abraham and the old lady gave
then that would mean Abraham and the old lady gave 100%
and not mean they didnt put a percentage on their giving

Besides, Abraham's 100% giving was done on spoils he forcibly took from other people
The poor widow's 100% giving, though commended in relation to the other people watched giving, actually wasnt fair because she was taken advantage of

Now re-echoing your last message, you are right there is no percentage on giving for believers
All God requires, is a cheerful giving that you decide in your heart without being forced or coerced to give
As a matter of fact, it is any amount that you're comfortable with
and in accordance to the level of grace you've received,
only that there is a caveat that whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly,
and whoever sows generously will also reap generously.

MuttleyLaff:
Okay, I tried but hey I give up

MuttleyLaff:
Kindly make your ''last page'' clearer for me then
whilst at it, follow the norm and standards for posting every like other poster adheres to

For the umpteenth time, I am not teaching and I aint your teacher

MuttleyLaff:
''Weeding out'' is not teaching brother

I am not teaching and I was not teaching
What I did was to separate out or remove the ''unrequired'' in that your post
and/or pointed out that you're copying the tithe-marketeers' style of building a doctrine on tithing by quoting scriptures out of context.
This is by you unnecessarily trying to build a doctrine on ''all'' based on the Scribe-Widow narrative

Please indulge me, as I have a question for you below, at the "second-to-last'' section of this post, that requires a honest response from you

If you're about to blindly cross a traffic moving busy road and you stopped after your attention was drawn to see that the traffic light green is on
Would you say you've just been taught something or you will say something was pointed out to you?

You understood the message, depending on what you're paying attention to in that Scribe-Widow narrative.
Did you not see the lack of fairness to the widow in the narrative?
Did you not see the exploitation of a poor widow in the narrative?
Was your attention not drawn to the fact that a poor widow was taken advantage of in the narrative?
Did you not see an example sucking dry, an exact of what Jesus mentioned just a few verses, earlier in Mark 12:40, about widows' houses being devoured by scribes, happen in Mark 12:42 & Mark 12:44 in the narrative?

You're right, it isnt about money
but you're not right that: ''it's about our faith-and how much faith are we giving to God...''
You also are not right about: ''Jesus pointed this out-are we to follow the lady's league or do we give less of our time to seek after God's treasury, which is the word of God.''

The truth of the matter is that, the Scribe- Widow narrative had nothing to do with faith, nothing to do with money
Nothing to do with following the lady's league
Nothing to do with giving less of our time to seek after God's treasury
It REALLY was about the scribes or teachers of the law and injustice

It is a scathing attack on the scribes or teachers of the law, about their lifestyles and their disregard for justice and the love of God

Think about it,
if the scribes or teachers of the law loved God or cared, do you think the poor widow, who is living on the breadline, would have been allowed to drop her ''all'' into the treasury box?

And one of the Scribes answered and he said to him,
“Teacher, when you say these things, you insult us also.”
- Luke 11:45

but then like on this thread, do tithe-marketeers the scribes care
No, just like in Luke 11:45 above, and especially on tithe threads such as this, all they care about, is whining over not to be insulted. SMH

Notice in the Scribe-Widow narrative that , Jesus in that teaching, started with:
''Beware of the scribes (i.e. one learned in the Jewish Law, a religious teacher) ....''

The reason behind the Scribe-Widow narrative was about the scribes
(i.e. Jesus was critising the scribes or teachers of the law and warning the people of them)

Jesus in the Scribe-Widow narrative was in the temple courts, sitting opposite the treasury-box, teaching
In His teaching, He warned the listeners about the tithe-marketeers scribes,

He went on further, to tell the listeners how the tithe-marketeers scribes operate
He listed a few of their excesses and mentioned the scribes lack of compassion

Later on, whilst watching people dropping money off, into the treasury-box, lo and behold, He spotted a tithe-marketeer scribe victim
He promptly, not to the earlier listeners but ONLY to His disciples, brought this discovery to their attention, saying:
⁴³Jesus called His disciples to Him and said,
“Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more than all the others into the treasury.
⁴⁴For they all contributed out of their surplus, but she out of her poverty has put in all she had to live on.”
- Mark 12:43-44

Modern day scribes are today's tithe givers, who go about congratulating self over tithing
Modern day Pharisees, are today's religious leaders who weigh people down with heavy financial burdens,
but themselves will not lift a finger to lighten people's load, especially in cases when people cant pay bills from losing their jobs
when their kids cant afford to attend the universities built out of their parents tithe giving etcetera

The Scribe-Widow narrative is reminiscent of today's religious leaders with tithe-marketeer hats on and the sheepified
Everything in that narrative continues on, in today's and present day religious gatherings
where you'll find poor widows and others giving their ''all'', living in abject poverty,
whilst the religious leaders are heavily body-guarded, live ostentatious & flamboyant lifestyles in palatial houses etcetera

All these religious leaders with or and their tithe marketeers, according to Mark 12:40, will receive harsher punishment
(i.e. they will be punished most severely)

I did understand, that is why I weeded out tithe in that comment you made
Besides, the ''all'' in Mark 12:44 was not meant to be taken as a command, not as a recommendation nor used as a doctrine to base any kind of giving on, whether ''all' or not
Mark 12:44 is an observational statement made based after something Jesus saw happen

I read it and know you were having a crack at the tither and tithe marketeers

Trust me, of course I did.
brocab, listen up, because here is the question I earlier said I have for:
Do you realise, agree and accept that ''all'', just like tithing, is of the law of death and sin?

Am I sensing a veiled or tinged sarcasm here in your closing remark

You cant expose the truth in the Religion forum without being ridiculed to be a teacher
You must have been wearing some serious blinders here, if you, for a second, thought that I am teaching or was teaching
besides you ought to know by now, that I am not that self conceited to come out saying, I schooled anyone, was schooling anyone or I am schooling anyone

Junia:
Please what do you base your tithing on ... i mean which scripture

plainbibletruth:
The book of Hebrews compares Jesus and Melchizedek.

Melchizedek was called a priest of the Most High God. Like Melchizedek, Jesus is a priest of the Most High God.

Melchizedek was a King-Priest. He simultaneously occupied both position. In that regard Jesus was a priest more like Melchizedek than like Aaron.

Obviously a King-Priest priesthood is superior to an ordinary priesthood.

Jesus Christ King-Priest priesthood was instituted by God himself and has been set up to last forever.

If Abraham, from whom the Aaronic priesthood eventually came, was blessed by and gave to a greater person – the King-Priest, that KIND of priesthood which Jesus Christ holds, then the Aaronic priesthood is inferior to the type Jesus Christ holds.

If perfection was found in the Aaronic/Levitical Priesthood, there would have been no need for a Priest to appear after the order of Melchizedek (King-Priest pattern) rather than after the order of Aaron.

The focus of the writer then is, “For you Hebrews who believe in Jesus Christ, you are no longer under the ceremonial aspects of the Law. You do not offer animal sacrifices anymore; you do not pay tithes to the Aaronic priesthood anymore. Because there was a change in the priesthood, there is also a change of law which accompanies it.”

Zikkyy2:
I think Petra1 should also provide the name of the priest that received Isaac's and Jacob tithe.

MuttleyLaff:
If it wasn't actually about a tithe,
why then did you bother use the t-word
I wasnt preaching to you, I was for the benefit of all reading, just ''weeding out'' you using tithe for the donation the poor widow made

Beware of tithe marketeers the Scribes
³⁸And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,
³⁹And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts:
⁴⁰Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.

The Poor Widow
⁴¹And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
⁴²And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
⁴³And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
⁴⁴For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living
- Mark 12:38-44 KJV

If you REALLY did understand was the widow narration clearly, you would have known that the widow narration actually started from Mark 12:38-40 with Mark 12:40 being the heart of the narration before continuing on to Mark 12:41-44

Now the question, you want to ask yourself, is this:
#1 Where from, do you suppose the widow learned to drop ALL her money into the treasury box?
#2 Who would you suspect has been teaching the widow to drop ALL her money into the treasury box?
#3 Do you see a pattern how it is done then and how it's done now?

https://i57.tinypic.com/34sp9j4.gif
You want to show big momma how to suck eggs

Jesus was not teaching about dropping ALL into a collection box
but was making an observational statement where he expressed an opinion or belief to the effect that quality and not quantity mattered
According to Jesus, the widow's mite might be too small in quantity, it however, is big in quality

Where in regards to the widow's donation have I used ''small'' ?
brocab, you need to understand you are copying the tithe-marketeers' tithing special modus operandi
Tithe-marketeers build a doctrine on tithing by quoting scriptures out of context,
and you too, now are trying to build a doctrine on ''all'' based on the widow narrative
so then, have you started handing in ''all' your money yet
if not yet, when are you going to start handing in your ''all''?

Donation noun: donation; plural noun: donations
- something that is given to a charity, a cause etcetera, especially a sum of money
Need I write more

Exactly God loves a cheerful giver, the old lady decided in her heart how much she will drop into the treasury box, and so cheerfully and without any regrets donated her widow's mite

Please the

And Jehoash said to the priests,
All the money of the dedicated things that is brought into the house of the LORD,
even the money of every one that passeth the account, the money that every man is set at,
and all the money that cometh into any man's heart to bring into the house of the LORD
- 2 Kings 12:4 KJV

2 Corinthians 9:7 is a rehash of 2 Kings 12:4
As a matter of truth, 2 Corinthians 9:7 is a 2 Kings 12:4 rebirth

At the moment, he has no choice
as you seriously arent expecting him to go against the CE flow on tithing

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death
- Romans 8:2

If so, then that will be like a case of someone airborne in a plane believing he/she is under the law of gravity
and not realising the law of aerodynamics hath made him/her free from the law of gravity

and what is the meaning of this your cryptic or coded sentence which you and only you understands

plainbibletruth:
TODAY'S TITHER

1. Today’s tithing as pushed by TITHERS AND CHURCHES is fraudulent and mischievous.
2. The Malachi tithe was one and the same as that found in the Law of Moses.
3. NOTHING in the Law of Moses on tithing specified MONETARY TITHING.
4. ONLY AGRICULTURAL PRODUCE were tithed.
5. Changing WHAT, WHERE & WHO to pay tithe to by today’s churches means TWISTING the word of God for selfish gain.
6. None of those who push tithing can show that the Apostles practiced it nor the early church generations that followed them.
7. When they are cornered by explanation of Malachi passage they resort to “Kingdom Principles” or “Eternal Principles” – phrases they cannot explain.
8. Today’s tithers claim to be under the New Covenant yet they REFUSE to follow anything in the BLUEPRINT for the New Covenant – the epistles which actually explains what the SHADOW of the Old Covenant represented.
9. Instead they ‘copy and paste’ from here and there to soothe their consciences, even where it is against God’s clear mandate. As long as they like it or they think they are getting ‘results’ they justify their position.
10. Majority of today’s tithers do it because of any of the following:
- Fear instilled in them by pastors.
- Claims that some benefit comes from it.
- Pressure of one form or the other
- Lack of knowledge of the Christian life in the New Covenant.
11. Under the New Covenant EVERY CHRISTIAN is a priest (1 Peter 2: 5, 9) PASTORS only hold different position BECAUSE of their SPIRITUAL GIFTS. Therefore even if – and that’s a big ‘if’ for that matter – tithing were to be applied to the church, all PRIESTS should be partakers of it.
12. Tithers of today have CLOSED their eyes to how the church gave and administered what believers gave as stated in the Bible. NONE of them follow their example, NONE. How come?

"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and
do not let yourselves be BURDENED again by a yoke of slavery"
Galatians 5: 1

MuttleyLaff:
The old lady didnt even tithe, what she made was a donation to the temple treasury
What the lady gave to the temple treasury was not tithing,
it was a cheerful giving made under no compulsion fuelled by faith in a God know as the Jehovah Jireh, God her Provider.
Jesus didnt see her giving as tithe, and neither called it tithe

It is a remarkable coincidence that Petra1/joagbaje has admitted and accepted that tithing is not mandatory
It must be hailed as a milestone for Petra1/joagbaje to conceed that tithing is not required by law nor is it compulsory.
This honesty and blunt admittance is admirable - despite his ill-informed opinions on tithing, he is totally honest about tithing not being mandatory or compulsory.

The issue of tithing, is just like the law of gravity which is not mandatory for flying,
moreso if in this case, when applying a higher law, of the likes of the law of aerodynamics is in operation

We all know the law of aerodynamics nullifies the law of gravity and makes it inoperative
as when the law of aerodynamics is in operation, the law of gravity is not working nor has no effect.
This is exactly what is going on with the law of sin and death (e.g. tithing etcetera)
and the law of Spirit (e.g. cheerful giving under no compulsion etcetera) - the latter nullifies the former

openmine:
bro U are right but petra1 and other tithers have erroneously misled most believers to tithe....manipulating dem by offering dem blessings unimaginable... and wat was needed was their tithe every month....
I don't even see it as a competition but a platform to let believers know that tithing no longer exists..The most shocking aspect is a tither saying Abraham had a mouthed revelation about tithe... fraudulence at its pick..good morning brocab

openmine:
Not just Circumcision....but the entire law of moses was condemned by Paul,Barnabas and Peter in Acts 15
U said paul never condemned the law of moses and i offered U a scripture to prove otherwise...



Based on my reply to U,i expected a response where Christ made separation of which law to abolish and which to discard...Hence,i expect those scriptures....but i do know very well that no law supersedes the one given to christ when he became a high priest...




I have also refuted this scripture using 1 Timothy 1:8
8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made NOT for the RIGHTEOUS but for lawbreakers [/b]and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers,
And going by Romans 7:12,its possible that NO one can keep the law of moses....Or can U?
15 [b] Christ ended the law with its many commands and rules. Ephesians 2:15


U didnt answer the question...The law also changed bro...And yet U accuse me of evasion
Sorry bro...Melchizedek is no tithe collector! That's wat U want to believe because U are also a tithe collector!


Do i have a feeling that U are trying to challenge what was written by Paul?
Its crystal clear...whether moral value or not....All laws have been done away with....

15 Christ ENDED THE LAW with its MANY COMMANDS AND RULES. Ephesians 2:15a ERV
15 He rendered the Law inoperative, along with its commandments and regulations, Ephesians 2:15a ISV


Moral or not...The comparison doesn't fit
The law is a unified entity that can not be shared in bits and pieces....
James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
If james said that if U stumble on one of the laws,then U are guilty of ALL...It simply means the law of moses whether moral or not moral is taken holistically!

And i responded by saying U dont seek to apply a law that cannot justify U or put U right with God...


Wrong bro...
Abraham interceded for sodom Genesis 18:16-33
Abraham prayed to God for healing on Abimelech Genesis 20:17
Abraham prayed for a son Genesis 15:2




And i refuted the reference with scriptures just to show that war spoils given to Melchizedek by Abraham was not the same as the one stipulated in the law...
Melchizedek met Abraham.offered his refreshment,Abraham in a show of good gesture gave him a 10th of war spoils...and gave the rest to the king of Sodom....there by taking nothing with him...Simple!
U Just want to make a doctrine out of this simple gesture....as if Abraham was forced or obligated to do so...smh



I knew U wud claim U said nothing like that....
U said the reason why the unspoken or mouthed revelation of the tithe to Abraham wasnt recorded was because there wasnt ENOUGH BOOKS for such documentation!


Good then open a thread for that....Ur incest points, as important as they are, has no relationship with "tithe being an eternal principle"
It was umbelief . He didn't wait for God.
It was still an intentional Act...waiting for God isn't the point...did he do so or not?


Lets start with Ur pre-law tithe,
Which U claim was a mouthed revelation by God to Abraham...Unfortunately,nothing of such could be found in the bible...which can only mean two things:Its either U are trying to assume whats not written in the bible or Ur tithe being an eternal principle has no foundation...Hence its already dead on arrival!

Current version of tithe:
based on Deuteronomy 14:22-29,A tither is meant to set aside its tithe of his grain,new wine,oil,flocks and eat of his or her tithe every year...Then after every three years,U offer Ur tithe to.... the foreigners, orphans, and widows who live in your towns and levites
Unfortunately,there is no levite but Most churches today have made the pastor or minister as a levite and am wondering where they came up with such scripture that gives a pastor or minister the grounds to be a levite!
And where is it stated that tithe must be of an income when the bible stated clearly that it was of farm produce...
Can U now see the error associated with today's tither's pattern of tithing?
U dont even obey the tithe that U are applying but run to malachi to justify ur tithe payments

LambanoPeace:
I must say I'm disappointed at you.

Thanks

LambanoPeace:
I must say I'm disappointed at you.

Thanks

Peacefullove:
what exactly is the purpose of tithe in the first place , was it not to care for the Levites ? Please is the Levitical priesthood arrangement still in existence to warrant the continuation of tithes ?

Gombs:
I think we're done here.

You posted a video that said tithers and their pastor's are going to hell. I asked you if you endorsed it... Na him you begin beat around the bush..

Bro, no vex, abeg shift make I pass.

Gombs:
Epp me ask him to be plain... I tire for this stunt.

LambanoPeace:
Answer yes or no please. I'm very interested in this answer too. Thank you.

Gombs:
Don't mind these newbies. See why I don't hesitate to set them straight?



Unlike them who dubiously hide behind new monikers and feel great about themselves.

You know why they keep saying we're teammates (remember we were once accused of being same), it's because we are the only tithers willing to waste time with these folks.

Haven't you seen we've been repeating ourselves and they keep changing posts

1. Tithe is a law
2. Tithing was of war spoils, did you go to war?
3. Tithers will go to hell
4. Melchizedek did this, Jesus said that
5. Jacob' tithing was....
6. Tithing isn't monetary
7. Etc

Leave this thread now and watch it die faster than any possible thing

Gombs:
Sir, I need a yes or no.

Am I going to hell because I tithed?