₦airaland Forum

kkins25:
I'm not particularly arguing against abortion, I'm just trying to point out that the arguments for abortion, aside from that of rape and minors, aren't a solid one. Or, rather, not convincing.

You'd have a point if anyone here was trying to convince you to abort your baby even if you got it by being raped and are a minor, but no one is trying to convince you to abort anything except the nuisance basilico who does need to be aborted and for whom I got the numbers for already and don't need yours!

kkins25:
Can you answer this though, If an unborn child is not your "child" yet, why do all states agree to check for viability before even agreeing to contemplate carrying out an abortion on a 24-week-old fetus? Why not abort an 8-month-old fetus? why not just wait until delivery and then unalive the baby? We can go on and on about the metaphysics.

The nuisance here will lie to you that "in Springfield, they are aborting 9 month pregnancies, they are aborting at 12 months, they are even aborting at 12 years old", but I guess that's why he's a lying nuisance.

We check because we don't just want to abort willynilly and because we are not murderers and because its the decent proper right thing to do. Otherwise, we'd still be bashing babies heads against rocks at the bottom of the river.

And that act sums it up. I have indeed commited murder if I kill the wanted gift of God foetus in your womb against your will, but if you kill or ask me to help you kill the foetus in your own womb within the limits the law allows, we have committed a legal abortion. The first is like stealing from you, while the second is you willingly giving something away.

kkins25:
Abortion, in our society isn't the norm. Since it's an new development, it's up to it's champions to come up with arguments to convince society to accept it.

Indeed abortion was not the norm in our society. In the past we carried the unwanted baby to term and then bashed its head with a rock and drowned it in a river, or just smothered it with a pillow, but new development has thankfully arrived and championed abortions instead, which have been very easily accepted instead of the barbaric infanticide that was the norm.

kkins25:
You can't enter building and tell somebody who believes babies are gifts from God that the "baby is like a parasite." Haba!

No one is entering any building to tell anyone that their gift of God baby is a parasite and should be aborted! And if anyone did enter a building and tell anyone that their gift of God baby is a parasite that should be aborted, the mother would rightly scratch that person's eyes out if her relatives and others don't first, unless that baby was basilico, who most would pay and rejoice to have aborted even long after term because he is a nuisance and not from anything worth keeping.

basilico:
Your stance on your body your choice leaves no room for doubt that you would like NHS to pay .........

NHS will not and does not need to pay for aborting the nuisance unwanted cell that you are in this thread that is not about aborting you in UK but about aborting you from a thread titled Politics in America.

In fact, if you had any dignity whatsoever, you would have aborted your nuisance unwanted self a long time ago, but since dignity is not intrinsic in you, I would willingly pay with my own money to abort the nuisance unwanted cell that you are.

basilico:
You never said that explicitly.

You, basilico, are aborted for making up lies as you do.

IjeBos:
His intrinsic value argument is based on Christian beliefs. Christianity is also the basis for what I can tell most if not all of his argument. It's the same form of "liberalism" that fueled the Catholics pro-life movement in the 70's.
Christians believe humans are created from the image of God and for HIS purpose. Hence the intrinsic value.

"Camouflage for some imaginary God", I called it. Like they want to bring their God in through the back door and hope we don't notice!

How I wish they wouldn't try to insult my intelligence by insulting themselves.

bemeruca:
define intrinsic

Should I define intrinsic after I asked you first and you haven't answered or before?

budaatum:
In fact, lets start with intrinsic. Tell me what intrinsic means to you please.

bemeruca:
- Thomas Hobbes

And by the way, you have not answered the questions I asked you!

bemeruca:
- Thomas Hobbes

You are really funny, and to be honest, I think Hobbes is way beyond your level of comprehension.

From what you quoted, "violence and the potential for murder are intrinsic to human behavior", but "that doesn't mean murder is morally intrinsic .....".

Is violence intrinsic to your behaviour?

Do you have the potential to murder anyone?

In fact, is your life "nasty, brutish, and short", or are you letting Hobbes tell you it is?

Xavier5:
Since you can't define what a human life is... or what it means to be a person. Let's end the discussion.

What you are saying is, you are not accepting my definition of human life.

Do note!

LordReed:
Maeve7, budaatum

It occurred to me that they might actually be referring to our instinctive drive for survival. But I don't consider that an intrinsic human value, it's a biological imperative like hunger pangs. What do you think?

If that is the case, my Lord, then they should say so.

It is not what Bemeruca thinks though, going by his list of what he claims is intrinsic, as none of the things he listed are biological imperatives like breathing, eating and shîtting.

bemeruca:
Honesty
Compassion
Respect
Integrity
Fairness
Responsibility
Love
Courage

Xavier5:
What is a human being?

A human being is a person.

Xavier5 is a human being who is a person.

A donkey is not a human being and is also not a person.

bemeruca:
Honesty
Compassion
Respect
Integrity
Fairness
Responsibility
Love
Courage

How are those intrinsic when many humans do their exact opposite constantly?

Can you say honesty is intrinsic in a liar?

Is compassion intrinsic in a narcissist?

In fact, lets start with intrinsic. Tell me what intrinsic means to you please.

bemeruca:
because you said so children start to lie at the age of 4. No one taught them to lie. you are crazy

Your children start to lie at 4. And while I'm certain you'd claim you never taught them, they clearly learnt it from you their lying father.

If you were less of a liar and more of a honest person, you'd have taught your 4 year old to be honest and not lie.

bemeruca:
so there is intrinsic human values?

I disagree!

Name some and lets consider them.

raumdeuter:
I completely agree with this. This is exactly why I am in support of abortion. Dont give birth to kids for someone else to finance

Thanks for showing Xavier5 you exist.

I agree with it too. Unfortunately, I got some irresponsible people who don't agree with me and who's school fees I do pay.

Xavier5:
Define person?

A person is a human being.

bemeruca:
I have told you for the 50th time that lying and killing is part of human nature (intrinsic). ...

You can tell me 1000 times for all I care, but lying and killing is not part of human nature! There are many people who don't lie, least not as much as you do, and I very much doubt even you have killed anyone yet, though convince me if you have!

Breathing, shîtting, eating is human nature. Every human on earth does these 3 things, making them intrinsic to humans.

bemeruca:
You don't seem to get what I am saying. lordreed was saying .....

I have just responded to your sidekick who is lying that buda has a gospel that buda does not have.

So don't you tell me what someone else is saying! Say what you are saying please!

Xavier5:
That's why I asked you, what makes an organism a human life? And does a fetus meet that requirement? Answer the question and stop beating about the bush. It's a simple question.

A human life is a person, and a foetus is not a person.

If I kill a human being in any society on earth, I would be charged for murder, but there is hardly any country that will prosecute me for killing a foetus inside me.

bemeruca:
Lol, ye shall know them.

Educate yourself. https://www.gotquestions.org/you-will-know-them-by-their-fruit.html

The below is from what you posted and seem to not understand.

In our lives, every word and every action is fruit from our hearts. Sinners sin because that’s what is in their hearts. Thieves steal, rapists attack, and adulterers cheat because those sins are the fruit being produced from an evil heart.

What is in your heart is intrinsic in you!

If evil is intrinsic in you, evil is what you will do and produce as fruit!

basilico:
A foetus right to live is determined by the carrier of the inborn. If she doesn't want the child to be born at any time of the pregnancy,then she gets an abortion.
If the govt can fund every abortion the better,. If the govt can force doctors to mail abortion pills without physical examination the better.

That's the gospel according to budaatum

You must show where buda said government must fund the abortion of basilico please, because, personally, I'm very willing to pay to abort you myself!

Xavier5:
If the fetus is a human life.....

If! Except that I have not agreed with you that"the foetus is a human life" now, have I?

Fuq, Xavier5. Your signature says "Philosophy Enthusiast", so I do expect simple logic to prevail and be an intrinsic value you'd want to display here, unless you are sharing Bem's position of his behaviour not reflecting his displayed moral values, which I'm not buying as you can clearly see.

bemeruca:
we are talking about the morality of our actions.

Would you like to argue that the action of lying is now morally right and proper or what?

Go ahead please. Knock me out.

bemeruca:
this verse proves my point.

A good tree and a bad tree. who is to decide what is good? A person who does a bad thing and says what he did is good?

"Ye shall know them", bem, and not "they shall know themself and tell blind stupid you what they are"!

Fuqing hell! Did you pay so little schoolfees that they didn't bother educating you at all or what!?

bemeruca:
It sounds like? that is what you understand. i cannot help you with that with that. all I can say is, with your view of morality, One can kill a person because that is his truth and you cannot fault him for his truth.

Bem, this is the nonsense you've been saying here all along! And you are now claiming its what someone else is saying?

Lying is definitely a value that is intrinsic in you!

bemeruca:
it is not my fault you confuse actions with moral values.
some women know prostitution is wrong and hates it yet they do it just so they can eat. your issue is that you believe behavior directly reflects values ....

Your behaviour reflects your moral values!

If you value honesty you wouldn't lie so much to the point where we say lying is intrinsic in you!

If you value money, you wouldn't wipe your ass with a hundred dollar note!

EFULEFU1:
Send me your number

Email it to me. Contact is on my profile.

bemeruca:
Confusion between actions and moral values.

I know a man who will disagree with you.

For most sane people, it it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it just may be a duck.

LordReed:
It sounds like you think morality is a substance divorced from your actions.

He will murder people but he is not a murderer.

bemeruca:
he did not create the story. before he becomes Trump's running mate, the residents of Ohio have been reporting those things. so you are lying he created the story

He does not need to have created it. He knew it was a lie and he repeated it, and that makes him a liar!

It's the same way basilico did not create the lie that dump won the last election dump lost. Repeating the lie makes basilico a liar.

bemeruca:
Lying is an action that someone can repeatedly perform, but it doesn't necessarily reflect the values they hold.

You wouldn't repeatedly lie if lying was not an essential part of your values, and lying about it would not make anyone but a fool think it is not intrinsically reflected in you to lie.

bemeruca:
IF is the keyword there. you are your lies.

If, except he did create a story that was a blatant lie!