Maynman: There was no human understanding that said “ 3000 years ago, some human understanding was "In the Beginning, God created the heaven and the earth".
They were talking about a particular Abrahamaic deity, in another human understanding in another culture, it was not a deity that created heaven and earth.
When "they were talking about a particular Abrahamaic deity" in their own human understanding in their own culture, of course other had talked or were talking about their own deity in their own human understanding in their own culture, and whatever their understanding is or was, none have presented acceptable evidence their deity created earth.
Even you here are talking about a particular deity (the universe) in your own culture and human understanding. Or put it this way. I am understanding what you are saying in your own culture and human understanding in my own culture and my own human understanding. It's why I'd say you treat the universe as a proxy for a deity, in this one instance. You don't. I just see it that way. And no. I'm not saying you worship the universe.
As for heaven. Evidence required for its existence first please before we discuss how it came into existence.
benalvino3: Dude, being ignorant is part of human behvavior. Killing stealing and jealousy, cheating lying etc are all part of human behavior. You cannot eliminate those things. Now some are crimes, but it is not a crime to be racist or hate someone. It is not a crime for people to he jealous or cheat on their spouse. Even if all are crimes, it is still things humans do.
I lost respect for him because it was disappointing to say the least. Because it is a normal human behavior to go to war or be tribalistic does not mean I should not be disappointed.
You budaatum often side with people who support your political views, even if they are lying or say rubbish, you tend to support them. That's a set or people you identify with.
Your hate for trump is implicit bias. Your hate for racist is implicit bias, your hate for the white man is implicit bias. Your love for abortion is implicit bias. Since black people killing themselves is the fault of a WHITE man because of colonialism and implicit bias, anything you do is as a result of the words said above.
You are no longer responsible for your actions. 400 years of slavery and the trauma you are facing is to blame.
benalvino3: implicit bias and colonialism make these black women treat white infants like a bag of cement. https://twitter.com/DVATW/status/1618873903304294401?s=20&t=QOWnwuWR4gwIfnGVMDeliw discrimination is everywhere. when you see Igbo men, Yoruba and Hausa, etc... destroy this country with madness you will blame it on 400 years of slavery. I remember once, in a meeting at the office, our manager was openly saying he is tribalistic. The sad part is, He has a Canadian passport. his children are there but he is in Nigeria with his wife earning loads running our Port Harcourt field office. I lost a lot of respect for him after he said that.
some people here are blaming all the nonsense we are doing on colonialism. religion and tribalism does not play a role.
people don't understand that there will always be a sect, or set in life. people will identify with their kind and be biased towards others. it is normal human behavior.
Why did you "lost a lot of respect for him after he said that" if it is normal human behaviour?
It used to be "normal human behaviour" in England to not let to dogs Irish and blacks, but it isn't anymore because that stupidness was taught out of people.
It is not human behaviour to be tribalistic, racist, sexist, ageist, religoist etc etc. It is plain ignorance. The learned type.
Maynman: Yeah of course, so who is the creator of earth that we stand on?
That's an odd question, considering the undisputed following:
Maynman: The only reason you think something can be created is because we humans create things, are you now using the same concept for this god?
I don't "use the same concept for this god"
Maynman: And what’s a “universe”, is that word “universe” not our limited human understanding of the things we see. The definition may change later on.
The definition changes as humans understand more.
Like, 3000 years ago, some human understanding was "In the Beginning, God created the heaven and the earth", and those who wrote that described their understanding as we now read it, and since then others have come up with their own understandings for consideration too.
Change, you see, is constant. Its why and how we evolve. My understanding, note.
Maynman: But it’s still humans that are using those words in the past in our tiny earth with their human understanding, can such things use our human terminologies “create” “exist”?
What "such things, Mayn?
Below is you.
[quote author=Maynman post=120457177].....all these I don’t know and i reject any any opinion be it gods(atheism) without evidence and i stick to I Don’t Know until i see evidences.
Have you seen evidence for "such things"? I ask to point out the difficulty in communicating.
Point is, we create terminologies to communicate with our fellow human beings. It has method and rules which might not be known to "such beings", so we'd just need to learn each others language first, like when Europeans landed in West Africa. I'm not buying your "such things" though, not without evidence.
[quote author=Maynman post=120458969]We humans create thats why we have creator, Some animals create, If this thing is not human and not animal, we can’t use “create” for it, or say it has a creator, I don’t know what can create a universe or if universe can be created by a creator or there’s such a thing as a “creator” powerful enough to create anything that magnitude or the universe was even created to start with.
But we do not have creators. Then again, we might just do have creators. After all mummy and daddy must have performed an act of creation for one to exist. Were you? Or is it that we just do not term what mummy and daddy do as creating?
Okay I'm being facetious, perhaps, but when one considers how far back one can trace one's forefathers, you might wonder how to expect to go as far back to see who created one's first forefather into existence.
Maynman: The investigation is still limited to our human understanding on this tiny earth. We may not even have the English words to describe what’s the universe and how it came to be.
When i said knowing, i meant knowing how the universe came to be, what’s the importance?
When you said knowing, you meant knowing how the universe came to be, which means, first know what the universe is. That's important. It's like asking, where do I stand. After all, in trying to know what the universe is, I must know the little tiny portion of it that I stand on.
As to words to describe it, one can learn how words have been used to describe it in the past and how those words have evolved into our own presence and use that knowledge to refine one's own description.
That said, it's not important for everyone. It's not air, after all.
Maynman: Since i was not there, i have no human logic to qualify it with, i can only make wild assumptions. And what’s even the importance of knowing?
Yea, i create a thread because i know a thread can be created, I don’t know if a universe can be created, haven’t seen one yet.
Yet, we do make those wild assumptions. And we make those wild assumptions having spent time investigating because we assumed knowing was or is important.
The importance of knowing is so one is not easily fooled. One also benefits from practising the art of seeking, which is what results in knowing, and is a valuable transferable skill.
Maynman: What if there are other concepts different from “create” “exist”?
There are other concepts different from “create” “exist”. In fact, is "create-exist a concept?
Not all things that exist are created. Some just are.
budaatum: No I have not seen "creation" without a "creator". But I have seen things that exist without a creator. And I repeat, a rock.
I see a rock exists, but I cannot honestly say I saw a creator creating rocks. And its process of formation does not include a creator. It would even be dishonest to call a rock a creation of a creator as rock formation does not require such an external agent to occur.
In effect, I have seen things in existence that have not been created by a creator. A rock.
Maynman: We know things can be created because we have seen things been created. I don’t know how the universe came to be, I shouldn’t use my human logic to qualify it.
I do agree, you shouldn't. Especially not qualify it for others. But that does not mean you can't or mustn't or shouldn't or don't use your human logic to qualify it for yourself. In fact, one should and must use one's human logic to qualify it for oneself, or at least attempt to.
Then there's here. After you've qualified for yourself, don't you create a thread to inform the universe of your qualifications, and don't we all wade in with our own qualifications?
budaatum: ........... all things are created by a creator of things. And since a creator of things is a thing in its on right, there must have been a creator of the creator of things. And if there was a creator of the creator things, there must have been a creator of the creator of the creator of things, and so on, at least, if it were true that all things are created by a creator of things. That's sense to me.
I threw them on the sofa on way to bed, reminding myself to remind myself to not sit on them when I wake up. Then I woke up, made my coffee and sat on top of my glasses.
benalvino3: What stupid history have you learned? What does colonialism have to do with the violence going on in Chicago or the police brutality or the state of the black man in the US today?
The Governor of the Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN) Godwin Emiefele should appear before the House and just say no to "extend the deadline for deposit of the old notes by six months".
triplechoice: here, with the excuse of an history that should be forgotten....
I wonder where you got that from Triple, that "history should be forgotten". Forgetting history gives permission to behave without impunity so one can do or say whatever one wants without it biting one's nose off. Please know that buda always remembers history. Forgetting history is not an idea I subscribe to, and Nairaland, thankfully, records our history.
Anyway, I read a bit more.
triplechoice: OBEs and NDEs in case you don't know, I know you don't know, is currently being investigated by those in the main body of sciences, and not just individual scientists working on their own, to understand better the phenomenon ,so as to bring it into the realm of the exacting sciences for further investigation in order to established its reality different from what religious people are saying about it. I mentioned Aware11 and 111 in that thread, and they just released an update on their recent findings.
"Currently being investigated", suggests not yet known, hence more to learn and know, but your "bring it into the realm of the exacting sciences", is a stretch, considering the subjectivity of the experience.
"Significance and mechanisms" of the experiences, note. As in, the outcome of having the experience and the conditions that cause the experience to be had.
Emergency Department or Research staff will be alerted to cardiac arrest and will attend with portable brain oxygen monitoring devices and a tablet which will display visual images upwards above the patient as resuscitation is taking place.
They will measure the oxygen in the brain, while displaying visual images to the patient.
Survivors will then be followed up and with their consent will have in-depth, audio recorded interviews.
After the patient has survived, which might be days or weeks later, they will ask what the patient saw.
Tell me, Triple. Would you be surprised if some patients claim they saw Jesus and angels and the gates of heaven or hell or whatever else it is you see?
Our writing is indeed history, Triple, and weeks, months, years from now, you and I will add to it here on this thread every so often where it would not be lost in the nonsense of that other thread. I'm certain my Lord would not mind.
In time we can look back at how we were, what we did and said, what it meant and means and if it's what we know or would say or do now and evolve or not. One more reason not to forget history is it makes one mindful of the present.
kkins25: I disagree. There are people that fit the description on both sides. However, one side, that is, the liberals, are quick to clamour for the utter destruction of opponent.
Perhaps you can read and it's I who's not clear enough so let me repeat myself and see if it makes a difference.
No one wants to control whatever it is that you think.
You may think you want to shoot buda for instance, but no one cares nor wants to control your thinking of shooting buda.
As for the rest. I don't even care what you've said, not to talk of what you think on the topic.
SlyfoxxMadness: What exactly is liberals problem with controlling what people say and think?
No one wants to control whatever it is that you think. The only thing we'd like you to control is your inability to hold "conversation devoid of any insults, tantrums or disrespectful words", which you repeatedly show an inability to do.
Thankfully, though it seems you can not be banned for disobeying simple rules designed to ensure the site works better, we can very easily ban ourselves from conversing with you.
triplechoice: You have quoted me here on this thread after several months with this,"+1 ".
+1 means one agrees with the sentiment expressed. And I am replying you here because we have history here and I do not wish to involve myself any further in that thread
Now try again without the verbiage. The above is as far as I got.
adamusuleiman1: Famed civil rights attorney Ben Crump is planning to file a lawsuit against Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis over the rejection of an Advanced Placement African American Studies pilot program.
Crump announced the planned lawsuit during a Wednesday news conference at the Florida Capitol, where he was joined by leaders from the American Federation of Teachers, politicians including South Florida State Sen. Shevrin Jones, and three AP honors students who will serve as the lead plaintiffs.
Gov. Ron DeSantis said the course violates legislation dubbed the Stop WOKE Act he signed last year.