₦airaland Forum

Unfortunately i wont be in Lagos but really if we want change we should be pushing candidates such as Femi Pedro.

For all those talking upside down (sorry not insulting anyone) about Pedro leaving AC am glad he did, for whatever reason i believe it would work for good.

The change we have all been talking and looking for is creeping in little by little and some of us cant notice it. Geetz,

Please for those who can in your own little way campaign for Femi Pedro and go out and vote.

@ Analytical thank you for a properly thought out and presented piece, your analysis is logical and can be followed objectively.

@ nigeriaone i really want to agree with you, you seem to believe strongly in what you are saying, but is that enough grounds??. Your arguement is not convincing, you need to provide superior arguements to what has been provided to prove your case such as Akure being more populated and all.

Recall i stated earlier that satelite images alone cannot be relied upon (analytical just did as well), it has its limitations, one of which was shown by analytical. Its compareable to the problem the US under the bush administartion is currently facing, fighting wars having de-emhasized and limiting the role of human intelligence deciding to rely more on technologies such as "satelite images" they really cant predict what is on ground and are paying for it seriously.

Please note am not ibo as well so my views are in no way ethnically construed. I think its quite clear using this forum as a sample that it would take much more than satelite images to mis-inform this generation of nigerians, the govt needs to step up their game and realise the population is much more informed and educated, we would demand clear explanations for their results and ALL actions.

@ Donzman i agree with Demery i wont touch anytin near Andy Uba if i were you.

@ planner

nigeriaone is in a world of his own, someone talking of evil powers online can you beat that.

If you keep joining issues with nigeriaone you stand the risk of sounding foolish sorry "uninformed".

I was only joking

@ nigeriaone,

nigeriaone:
What is wrong with us? can't we love ourself,
the census was not about how many igbo or hausa or yoruba in Nigeria, but how many people living in Nigeria, , There are igbos living in lagos state, And yorubas living in kano state, we are all nigerian let love ourself, bear with my keyboard

Hmm really we can see you show love below

nigeriaone:
Go back to learn how to address people, if not people would teach you some lesson in life, I hope you know that we are not all the same, Go and read your bible, young man, you would find that there are evil power, if you talk to an evil person the way you have address me, they would deal with you, Internet or no internet. learn how to talk with people, A quick less you should learn, learn to respect people even if it on the internet, because you may not know who you are talking with,

@ nigeriaone pls read Numbers 23:23, Isaiah 54:17, I John 5:4.

This Census controversy in my opinion is a bit early and unnecessary, yes we know in the past there might have been manipulations but can we all wait for the official census results to be published.

In addition we are aware of the advantages of satelite images but please note it has its limitations. The propangandist of this satelite image on Nairaland "nigeriaone" in my opinion is an "uninformed individual" i advise all to be cautious when visiting his sight. I intentionally refused to visit his sight becos he has been trying hard to advertise the site using the Narialand forum.

In another thread nigeriaone has started using satelite images to make predictions that Akure is more populated that Onitsha and other such statements which i believe we should wait for the Population results. He claims to be in government or close to government in another thread i think the one on the gas project, his statements suggest one that takes ethnic positions.

While my intention is not to attack nigeriaone i am concerned that we let every issue divide us, no matter what the census results are somebody somewhere will feel marginalised. We need to move forward as a nation particularly our generation lets avoid the traps that caught our parents, religion, tribalism and such tools such as Census, yes it will affect revenue distribution but if everyone in the polity has one agenda a better Nigeria and not a better region or state we could overcome this "minor" issues used to divide us.

The satelite images would definately help to interprete the census results when release and show clear cases of fraud but please note it has its limitations, that is why the NPC and the govt in their wisdom decided to conduct a Census, they could have well used the satelite pictures to predict the population figures.

@ Donzman, Mariory et all, please ignore this "nigeriaone" of a guy, i've had the "misfortune" of discussing with him on another thread and putting it mildly his intellect can only be compared to that of a one month old baby i.e. babling, making noise without logic and using facts wrongly.

He cant even spell check and his grammar leaves much to be desired, please just ignore him. I have not seen the satelite images but i have a very good idea of its limitations, which obviously "nigeriaone" cannot recognise.

My contribution to this is that let us not be in a hurry to discredit the NPC figures lets wait for the breakdown, we have had a past of misrule and deep tribalism that we read meanings into everything, am sure no matter the figures somebody somewhere would feel marginalised.

Its folks like "nigeriaone" that propagate and continue to intensify this dangerous ethnic ideology looking for every way to justify their positions even when it is at opposite ends with logic. I have noticed you keep arguing blindly on the side of the west, are you from the west? and is it becos we have OBJ now, wld you talk like this 2 years down the line when Yar Adua is president(obviously i can predict that). I dont want to get into this tribal trap but please think before you talk sorry type.

@ kacey5 , i dont know of you but for me, i expect much more the world is moving so quick, we are playing

@ otokx, just the same way you guys said Ibori was God sent, pls look at the figures, i wont go in details on Odili its pointless,

I really find it hard to understand, a governor constructs one road here and rehabilitates another there, very minute contributions, indeed very minute and we say they are trying.

My question to us all what are they supposed to do in the first place? , let the serious minded candidate come out and say if in 2 , ok 3 years, all Federal roads are not tarred he would resign, or give in details what he will achieve, measurable not just wild talk

At the rate we are going we will still be underdeveloped in 2050, Geeez,

Clearly the current scenerio aint working we know that, we need to try a different approach, when you design projects the way roads are currently being built it would fail, the Joint Venture arrangement btw the govt and the oil companies why is it working, becos everyone takes ownership, cant we extend such ideas to infrastructure,

E.g on road construction maybe Build, Own, Maintain and Transfer ,whereby projects are allocated (roads, hospitals etc) . They are built but the construction company takes ownership over 20 yrs, if he uses fake materials thats his problem he wld replace it, payments spread over a 20 years span, the govt inturn would guarantee credit (loans) for the construction company, that way the construction company or whoever handles the project shares in ownership amd must make it work, but no , all we hear is i wld build roads, build hospitals, HOW, no ideas ofcos people need their 25% cut Infrastructural development and maintanance is the easiest thin for any serious govt, we are just not serious, and people are here advocating for Odili who cant effectively manage one state, what ideas does he have,

Abeg second base jare,

It is really pathetic that someone like Odili can dream of the office of presidency, well i guess a people deserve the leadership they get or have?

To a large extent we can safely assume that pople express their honest opinions here, so is this what we all actually think and say of Odili

@ otokx, i am surprised at your utterances , shocked beyond my bone marrows, i have come across your journal once or twice here on Nairaland , where you complained bitterly on power supply in your cybercafe or something, bad roads e.t.c in PH and here you are supporting Odili, saying "my governor"

@ nigeriaone, i can see that what am talking about is unimaginable to you in your little world as you still talk of leaving naturally disadvantaged regions alone. Have you heard of "the palms island", please type it into google, thats even in the middle east not europe or america. Thats a nation investing heavily in tourism and thinking ahead knowing that it cant rely only on crude oil alonestance.

Again i ask you, should we leave the desert regions alone? I wont attempt to answer that question because its an "insult to common sense", please can you answer my question if you are/were actually involved in the design of the project or in your usual self you were just "shouting".

You have also decided to take the role of the legislature to enact laws concerning the tiers of government, thats not the topic and why this your passion about the niger delta asking for more money, you comfortably forgot about "true federalism" saying the Delta should not ask for more money. Please i dont want to sound insultive or attack personalities but "just keep quiet".

You've avoided the issues of if proper home work was done before locating the site which is the purpose of this thread, and enlighten us if there are since we argue and are of the opinion that it was sited based on tribal and ethnic considerations. Your points so far which i perceive might be the points of the government is again an insult to common sense and to us all.

@ Chxta please nigeriaone has no points, the keyword is NO point not MAY.

Let me enlighten you a bit Lagos like London is a commercial centre, London doesnt have major industries, its a financial hub, where you have the financial muscle, it controls am sure more than the budgets of the whole Africa and the whole Asia. However, recognising future problems early, other areas had to be developed, because London would get out of hand. Forexample Aerospace and defence were established in Bristol (South west) e.t.c.

Theres virtually no region that doesnt build or develop something, every city is a strong economic unit contributing to the lives of the people and the productivity of the nation. The projects are not abandoned they are made to work, you know the result, there are jobs every where for the citizens, if you are a finance expert you are likely to choose London, engineers might choose the south west, in short every area has opportunities for everbody. Its your choice where you want to stay. Then the forces of demand and supply play out, cities that are high in demand tend to be more expensive to live in, the society is in a fluid state, people locate ane relocate at will, hence growth is continous.

The development of first world nations didn't happen by mistake, it was deliberately planned considering the whole picture, the vision was a better stable life for all. Imagine the size of Rolls Royce, Airbus and many more they are located in south west, the finance might come from London but the machines are somewhere else.

Finally let me clarify i didnt say politics, i said political economy, clearly you dont understand it, your statement that Ogun and Ondo have never had unrest shows it. What are the factors that could create unrest in these places, how can we ensure that peace remains? Will the project tilt the lifestyle of the people greatly, would there be equity, security, cost e.t.c, its too vast, remember that Lagos has its own share of violence, Ekiti is having its now, Ibadan the same,you think it wont get to ogun or ondo, lets wait and see, with the thinking pattern is a matter of time,

In terms of skilled labour, i wont respond to that if you think its only Lagos that has Engineers, accountants e.t.c, am happy for you. My question is do you know the number Youth Corpers every year.

If you think the violence would remain in the Delta, you just wait, If you think its only the Delta governors stealing, am again happy for you. This violence in the delta you say is chasing away investment, what is the cause, theres still so much happenin in the area, you see yourself as not being part of the problem, wheres the money keeping the nation coming from. My brother we all need to be concerned about the Delta and push the govt to develop the area ensuring piece. Its the hen laying the golden egg now, it should be handled well, or is it deleberate to ensure the unrest remains, all this are questions that shld be answered??

My point , am not saying the siting is wrong or right, but i ask is that the right place it should be? is the siting fair and seen to be fair by all, even if it is not fair, can the govt confidently say they did all that needed to be done, that it would not cause agitation,

We can go on trading words, but its time we all started thinking outside the box, and try and stop using the little knowledge we have to confuse others.

Please recall i stated earlier that we should strive to use simple and clear words in our arguements so it can be easy to follow and make sense to the reader. The construction of your response leaves much to be desired in terms of the quality of the writer.

My response would be in two parts.

Being a specialist you should be sure of words you use so we the "ordinary mind" can check it out. I have not bothered to research your so called "attenuation" because really am not convinced you have proper understanding, its more like you are trying to show off knowledge which is not the purpose of this thread or forum. A little deviation please, @ nigeriaone are you really involved in this project ?? I would like to know if you are really working at the design stage, it would help me access the quality of the personnel.

Having strenously read your response, let me clarify some misrepresentations. I never stated engineering issues should not be considered, i asked should they be the only consideration. Your response is that it should be the only consideration? I rest my case because clearly that exhibits the level of risk assessment that has been done, no need flogging a dead horse, time will tell, my pain is that am part of this nation of waste.

Brother you say Calabar failed, so the solution is to place everything close to Lagos. I can now clearly see your thinking of pattern. Did you ask why Calabar failed (i still dont think it has failed, its waiting for visionaries to move it), what was the level of funding and commitment. "Calabar is far from any major market" you say. Are you thinking of development at all, building new trade regions across the country, establishing other centres that would specialise in other commodities. Your soultion is to place everything close to Lagos. Please where are you from, do you want other parts of our country to be developed at all, the remote villages in Zamfara, maiduguri, Illorin, Ikot abassi.name it . anywhere and everywhere has a right to development, and it is the responsibility of the state to build, to invest, to plan, create wealth so that we dont kill ourselves over the little we have, expand, create new wealth .

@ nigeriaone

Do you in your honest opinion think the reason(s) you stated is/are the reason for the citing of the project ? I leave your conscience to judge you.

So engineering issues should be the only consideration when sitting a project? Should we consider the political economy.

You have attempted to use engineering jargons to justify the decision stating non-engineers would not understand. Who told you that ?? Brother we are educated, i can research on any subject and gain meaningful understandin maybe not specialist but meaningfull, break down your jargons and explain in simple english (thats one of the skills that proper education transfers) we would understand. Am not convinced with your "engineering"reason(s), you have a point but its just too shallow to justify the location of such a project? I argue that other political and economic considerations should not be overlooked becos they affect the longer term viability.

OBJ being an engineer has nothing to do with this discussion, am sure other engineers (with much better education & understanding) would have alternative views.

Your point on de-populating lagos is also not sound, why so close to lagos (45 mins) if thats the intention then the project should be cited in Zamfara, Sokoto or maybe the middle belt. Why cause a "future" problem close to a current problem becos soon it might have the same population problem u want to slove.

Furthermore, note that your arguement on peace is also unconvincing. Theres no monopoly of violence in Nigeria, whilst the degree and consistency differs it occurs everywhere, anytin could spark up, anytin, anytin. Was the Delta this problematice 20 years ago (the violence is a reaction, do you think the miiltants like the life) and who told you Ondo, Ogun would be stable in the next 20 years,

Hello wake up the state is failing or has failed in its responsibilities.

My arguement is this we are always so so short sighted. Ethnicity and tribalism influence all our decisions so much that it is almost impossible to be objective in Nigeria.

Saying OBJ is the greatest president Nigeria ever had is quite short sighted. My question GREATEST in what sense?

I have read the originator's paragraph, however the reasoning behind is fundamentally flawed. He is attempting to single out OBJ from the whole crop of political leadership, thats really impossible.

OBJ's "so called"achievements (which i give him credit for) is in the area of structural change which is a painful and long process, it might translate to gains in the long run but again thats if it is sustained, so really it is a gamble - Nigeria wise

Please look at the figures for 7 years (the fmf site) we cannot point to any meaningful development infrastructurally look at capital expenditure, where are the capital projects, Do a little execercise, download and calculate how much has accrued to the Federal Govt , where are these funds??. Please lets not deceive ourselves the funds are still not utilised efficiently. While not accusing OBJ directly he is responsible for his govt, whether OBJ or his cohorts theres still a missing link.

Look at the man "OBJ" does he understand the structural change he seeks to introduce to what extent does he understand the english that Soludo, Bode Agusto, Okonjo-Iweala, etc speak "macro economic stability", fiscal discipline, blah blah , does he really understand the workings, the complexities involved, the best he can understand is "debt forgiveness" & "foreign investment" which he has tried to sell and sell vigorously he has (cos thats what he understands).

For those of us suggesting an increase in foreign investment has been achieved i ask, "Is that the main tool of economic development?? NO, infact it is a byproduct of economic development, nobody will invest in an econmy where its own citizens are not confident in investing. What we are witnessing now is childs play compared to what we will experience if we get our acts together.

In addition most of us in this forum (average age of btw 15-35 maybe less 30) cannot effectively compare OBJ with any regime pre-IBB. I therefore disagree with the statement, OBJ is the best president Nigeria has ever had, we just dont know, we cant tell, we just can not compare, maybe our parents can argue that.

I keep on raising this issues with Nigerians as mush as i can, lets be very careful in accepting mediocrity, statements like the man stole but did something is totally unacceptable, we are inherently (unknowingly) accepting the culture of stealing.

@ ono, Thanx for the response, quite a while really and hows our prince doing? Hows PH and the roads?

Reading the few comments so far i really am closed to tears except for "buchio7" and "ono" to a little extent, the few see it as a non-issue. As "kimba says "my Utaka should go and see down". Yes there are other major issues and theres bureacracy that makes it right no one should take responsibility,

I rest my case really, but whether it counts or not in my own little way i call on the Ambassador to resign for such an embarrasment.

It was a salient voice that culminated to a majority that has forced Tony Blair to give an exit date even after such a brillant performance as prime minister. We need to build a culture of accountability maybe not our generation but the next that will reap the fruit. Nation building is a painful process as it involves changing the status quo, particularly rent seeking and govt favours. It should be a tireless process, we must keep at it.

We dont have such a culture now but we can cultivate it.

Calling on the Nigerian Ambassador to France, please do the honourable thing and RESIGN.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/africa/5406144.stm
http://www.ngrguardiannews.com/sports/article01
http://www.punchng.com/Articl.aspx?theartic=Art200610057123750

In my opinion it is an embarassment (National) that the machine used for printing Nigerian passports in a country like France (or any country at all) would breakdown for two months.

Furthermore, i find it hard to understand how the Ambassador can be comfortable about this (evidenced by the links above where John Utaka cannot obtain a new passport to enable him join the National team in Lesotho). I can only imagine the plight of the average Nigerian in France needing any form of diplomatic assistance.

I stand corrected but this gives an indication of the level of service offered. Mr Ambassador in France in the era we are moving into and the direction we are hoping for our beloved country such laxity cannot be tolerated, so i call on you all to join me in asking him to resign.

Calling on the Nigerian Ambassador to France, please do the honourable thing and RESIGN.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/africa/5406144.stm
http://www.ngrguardiannews.com/sports/article01
http://www.punchng.com/Articl.aspx?theartic=Art200610057123750

In my opinion it is an embarassment (National) that the machine used for printing Nigerian passports in a country like France would breakdown for two months.

Furthermore, i find it hard to understand how the Ambassador can be comfortable about this (evidenced by the links above where John Utaka cannot obtain a new passport to enable him join the National team in Lesotho). I can only imagine the plight of the average Nigerian in France needing any for of diplomatic assistance.

I stand corrected but this gives an indication of the level of service offered. Mr Ambassador in France in the era we are moving into and the direction we are hoping for our beloved country such laxity cannot be tolerated, so i call on you all to join me in asking him to resign.

"You talk of ethnicity as if it's not here to stay with us. Where I work, the so many Yoruba and Igbos loves communicating in their language whenever they've got something that they know might benefit everybody. But they love communicating such to their tribal groups first. They even prefer employing their ethnic groups to any other group. "

@ono
"Does that make it right". Remember i warned earlier lets not fall prey to the ethnic card, you can see why, its such a divisive tool. Next it will be religion.

I recognise the problem is real but should we continue encouraging it, thats what was used to divide our parents, should we let that divide us too. ono can you marry a girl from Asaba?

@ dafman,

Do you live in England or America to know or assume the quality of life in those places ? and is there a controversy on it ?

Please go through the thread we have dealt with the UNDP report and the HDI index extensively, no need flogging a dead horse.

Mr. otokx provided us a copy of the UNDP report itself and we considered that same punch story. Please try and look at the report for yourself and sieve what you believe from the pages of the newspapers.

ono,

Thanks for the definition of the word Delta. It has really enlightened me on the meaning of the word, i would not be ignorant next time.

However, it seems you are disagreeing with the UN report you relied on earlier stating they swallowed the FG's definition hook line and sinker. In my opinion i believe the reason for language is communication and the real meaning of a word is in the mind of the user, thats why some words have different meanings. I can say that girl is really looking MAD, meaning she's really fit (pretty), or that girl is really looking mad, meaning shes really looking awful, really if the two parties understand themselves theres communication.

For whatever reason (political or whatever) the government might have defined the Niger Delta i leave it to them, but even the wikipedia recognises the Nigerian Government's definition, so maybe we can note it at least we all understand. It seems its all states that produces crude oil at the moment (no matter the quantities), i dont know.

Am not stating anythin on corruption afterall they havnt been proven guilty, i earnestly wait for next year if EFCC will do anything, i really pray they do, though i agree with you statement.

Am pained on the situation in the whole Niger Delta (FG's definition), am really pained but what am more pained is that my own brothers in the persons of the governors are joining to make it worse, a bridge, little roads here and there wont solve the problems. They just dont know what to do? so why are they there, why via for office when u cant make a difference for whatever reasons i leave to them, but they really dont have the political will and intellect to solve the problem, i dont mean academics now, i mean being sharp.

Yes eight years is a short time, to repair the years of neglect. I agree the problem preceeded Ibori, why should he continue it, but a lot can be achieved in eight years in terms of development (infrastructurally), maybe to see changes in terms or macro-economic indicators might take longer.The governors especially are not serious. Looking at the centre would be leaving subject, that has its issues as well, but as a president please Ibori is far from it, very very far for that matter.

I agree with a contributor that said the guy wont even imagine it in the first place.

On your question earlier who i would consider as president, my brother am forced to get religious, lets pray, lets just pray.

There is a vacuum of leadership. Some people might do well, as they have done well in their fields am sure u guys know a few candidates that we can relate to, but how they would cope politically is a big question, looking at it realistically the old breed are still strong on the ground. We must just ensure that we dont stay at home and make comments like our vote dont count, we need to vote along the lines we think there will be changes, its that vote that we can use to change things, first by ensuring the right people are in place. The issue of rigging is another, but really we need to vote. I strongly believe the rigging goes on in large scale because a lot of us (the younger generation) dont vote, i might be wrong.

Otokx,

We can crack jokes,but please lets have a forum free of all this unnecessary remarks.

"I don't like to talk too much; what your doing is not different from what the sycophants are doing here. "

"Its Obvious that Mr abi Ms Bulutu does not stay in Nigeria or he would have known that the report was analyzed and broken down by many dailies in the country. This was what kindled my interest in the material that i downloaded the entire report into my PC. I am honestly tired of this guys yannings and will no longer respond to such"

Crack a joke to discuss the issues in a lighter mood, or to distract us a bit and make us laugh, not making cynical remarks.

Part 2. I will have to quote a lot from the report to buttress my points

First,
The index is flawed, the UNDP report presents other indexes such as the HPI,GEM, GDI not quoted on the dalies or considered .

"Most indicators used to compute the HDI do not include the items that the Niger
Delta states badly need, such as roads, water, electricity and appropriate waste
management, among others".(Page 128)


"The HDI also does not adequately capture severe environmental degradation
and poor infrastructural provision because of the nature of its measurement
parameters. The Niger Delta states do rank relatively high on the HDI indicators
of life expectancy, knowledge and GDP per capita values. Unfortunately, these
do not include the items the states badly need, such as roads, water, electricity,
appropriate waste management and so on. There is a sharp contrast between the
quantitative indicators and the real quality of life of the people in the region. It is
necessary to look beyond the HDI for an effective assessment of the problems of
the Niger Delta". (Page 138)

This comment summarises the facts, the HDI is not an index to access the quality of life or the efficient use of resources by the governors, it’s a quantitative indicator not a qualitative one.

Second,
No progress has been made, compared to a previous study by the UNDP, the index has been high since the days of Bendel state.

“In 1996, UNDP computed the first HDI for Nigerian states, for the year 1992. As
table 2.8 shows, the Niger Delta states of Bendel (now Delta and Edo states),
Rivers (now Bayelsa and Rivers) and Cross River (now Akwa Ibom and Cross
River) obtained the highest HDI scores in Nigeria, outperforming even Lagos
State. The HDI scores were 0.631 for Bendel, 0.539 for Rivers and 0.513 for Cross
River. UNDP (1996) argued that, on the basis of their HDI scores, these three
states “would easily have qualified in 1990 as middle human development
countries occupying positions 79th, 91st and 96th respectively in the World.”(pg 129)

Third,
Things are actually worse than before, little progress has been made

"Evidence from Chart 2.2 reveals that while some states made appreciable
progress between 1992 and 2005, most states from the Niger Delta region,
especially the South-South geo-political zone, performed poorly. Edo, Delta, and
Bayelsa showed some retrogressive trends, while Ondo, Abia, Akwa Ibom, Cross
River, and Rivers and Imo states achieved some progress." (Page 135)


Fourth,
The reason why it is high, this is the federation case really, the revenue generated is assumed to be spent on the region, hence a high HDI

"An important limitation of the HDI in the Niger Delta region is that the
income data used to compute the per capita GDP component include oil
revenue, much of which is not retained within the region.(Pg 138)
“The well-known limitations of the HDI in the region have to be borne in mind.
For instance, the data on income used to compute the per capita GDP component
include oil revenue, much of which is not retained within the Niger Delta region.”(Page 138)


Finally,
The resources available compared to the population size vis a vis other states suggest that Delta should actually be doing better. Please resist the temptation to bring in Rivers, he has performed worse.

Page 64 tells us that in 2003 Delta got N65 Billion and spent N40 billion on recurrent expenditure alone about 70% (I really hope those staff are paid very well, would have been nice to see how much Shell wage bills is, I know the banking industry as a whole might not spend as much on recurrent expenditure).

Page 54 shows us the land mass and population of Delta state. Delta state has 2.9 million people, it earns about double the income of the other states (apart from Rivers), and has similar population size. See the pages and campare the figures for your selves.

Please spare me, Delta state in terms of level of spending if we assume there is no looting or waste should actually have an index twice as better.

I can go on and on, there are so many facts in the report but it would get too boring and too academic.

The report is meant for policy makers and should not be used as a political tool to dissuade innocent people.

My response is in two parts.

Part 1
Based on the additional facts provided by Otokx via the UNDP report, (thank you) let us now consider if that’s enough basis to consider Ibori for presidency or as a basis for his performance in eight years.

Let me sate my argument clearly. I argue that the high Human Development Index (HDI) being quoted has little or nothing to do with the performance of Ibori, infacts its an indictment on him. It is an inaccurate assessment of the quality of life of the people.

My aim is not to be a critic of Ibori but to show that Ibori has performed poorly (very poorly, more than I thought earlier) relative to the resources at his disposal and hence can not be as a suitable candidate for presidency.

Please note emphasis on Ibori because he is the subject, the report makes it worse particularly for the likes of Rivers who have more resources. The report really is an indictment on the Niger Delta and Nigeria as a whole. I only pray all in authority would read it and implement its recommendations.

The problem is this, see the link below (Punch) it picks the HDI alone and reports in the news a UNDP report, for heavens sake the report is a 517 page document, then people read the newspaper and my friends would think it’s enough to justify the actions of their prince. The newspaper is reporting as they deem fit, they cant report everything, as stakeholders in the polity we should be interested in real issues, they are journalist and a business venture.

http://www.punchng.com/Articl.aspx?theartic=Art20060823419571


The report ranks Delta state the best amongst the 9 Niger Delta states in terms of HDI alone. It does not mean Ibori has utilized his resources efficiently or performed better. It also compared the region amongst other oil producers where the delta is the least. My friend, Mr.ono the world compares you with the rest of the world, it considers your situation but still compares you, there is no level zero, we are in the same global world. Others have decided to stand out, we have decided to complain and accept near failure performance as one of the contributors stated "accept crumbs".

We might not be able to read the 517 page but please scan through it.


(Mr. ono please see the definition of the Niger Delta: pg 15,and the map: cover page and page 45)

Did you guys read that report?

Please take a careful look at it.

Otokx, you accuse me of being selective on Delta state.

Ono you accuse me of being "general".

My arguement is clear and precise, the performance of James Ibori so far as an assessment of nominating him for president. Once or twice i take a look at the whole polity, but the point is clear and i guess you know my answer to your question.

I appreciate your emotions towards Ibori, its good. Dont let it cloud your reasoning. Look at the figures.

I can see where this is leading, and i guess the point has been made.

[/quote]I Would respond to other lines of arguement.
[quote]

otokx,
Please refer to my earlier comment. Thanx.

Am tempted to respond to your allegation of "arrangee/selective justice", but i cant see where i am guilty of such.

"45 Billion in six months and what can we see in terms of development. I am from the Niger Delta so please don’t play the ethnic card. While I personally agitate for true federalism and greater control of resources, as a nation is that our problem, will that bring development and jobs to our brothers in the creeks?

Hmm, right in black and white you misquote me. For ease of reference see above.

Bringing OBJ into it is amusing its a defeatist way of avoiding the issues. ono you still didnt answer if you would like to work in Delta civil service given the choice. We can all pray for you . The Civil service has improved tremendiously but the point it is, it is far from where it can be. My intention was not to convince anybody or criticise but to state the facts and leave us to our conscience. Its the facts thats criticising not me. We can be better than this.How i wish theres so much transparency so we know what our leaders are worth.

We need to demand from the next set of leaders accountability and its from such forums we can stimulate ourselves.

If we are happy with the present leadership, then its okay, am not and i speak for myself. I demand so much more from them, i have seen what other countries demand from their leaders, those guys have to be on their toes, ours are too relaxed.

I can see where this is leading, and i guess the point has been made.

I just wanted to stimulate us all to think outside the box and demand for accountability from our leaders, is it so difficult to say tell us how you spend the money, but i guess its okay to do the ordinary and get ordinary results for some of us. Some of us just believe we are far from our potentials. We can be better than this, we need extra-ordinary achievements to make a little impact now.

I Would respond to other lines of arguement.

With that i say thank you for such a stimulating discussion.

ono,

Again am happy there’s a forum to rub minds. Please refer to my first post, I said I personally agitate for true federalism where each federating state has greater if not 100% control of its resources and perhaps sends a percentage to the centre, but how that will work politically in Nigeria is difficult considering this is the voice of the minorities, that’s my desire, I support it and perhaps if we could we should ask for a referendum, but again considering the numbers we might loose (the conference definitely told us where the problem is), again I refuse to dwell on that which divides us.

ono, please look at the figures, all am asking for is accountability. If truly the funds allocated are being spent. Let them show us. Its not only Delta, Edo, Rivers, Kaduna e.t.c, they should be accountable to the electorate. Delta pays his staff well, really? Didn’t know if you had a choice you would work for Delta state instead of Shell or Chevron. While am not saying they should earn the same the disparity is still too much, civil service is still very inefficient. Standard of living is too low, thats why they still collect bribes and abuse the office they are not paid well enough.


US is over 160 yrs (much more) and UK is much more older so we should accept fate, nothing can be done. I guess we should go back to the industrial revolution which these countries experienced when they were our age (are we even there). Do you know how far back the Underground was built.

What is the purpose of learning, if I can’t use knowledge. Acquire it and catch up with them. Must I go through the same process? This is the exact thinking pattern I am worried exist amongst a lot of Nigerians, we are trying our best? what can we do? It will be better?

We are not trying our best because our funds are not being utilised efficiently, we are not expanding, we keep relying on same old things.

I should come down to level Zero, am sorry but that I wont because that’s not reality, its what we have accepted. Mediocrity i wont be part off. I believe as a people we can do better, we are smarter than this.

Hold people accountable, if you cant deliver, please honourably resign. I believe we should place a demand on the leadership, dont aspire to office if you dont want to serve or dont have solutions, if you cant think. Look at Tony Blair when he entered office and look at him now, even unpopular Bush look at him. But the reverse is the case for our leaders they are looking fresher than ever.

Other countries have come from worst conditions than we are and moved quickly, with a sustained economic growth of above 15% a year over a time,we can cover much grounds and deliver good life to the ordinary Nigerian and leave a legacy for our children to be proud off amongst the committee of nations. Lets stop being local champions.

NB: Thanks for the correction, didnt know it was a vocalbulary class.

ono,

Thanks to this forum. If you say Asaba or all the areas you mentioned are not part of the Niger-Delta, I have no worries, its really not the issue we are discussing, i would not join to dwell in that which divides us (tribalism or ethnicity) so I will not state in specifics where I am from. I said it earlier lets not play the ethnic card. It’s such a divisive tool, next it will be religion.

I thank you for your response, but please let’s have a forum free of personality attacks and inadequate facts. I would address your issues and conclude as indept and briefly as I can.

First clarifications, I asked what the criteria or the basis of assessment was? based on the infor from Djeresa it centered around agitation for resource control, true federalism & democracy. I didn’t say Ibori was not a performer, I said let our conscience judge we all go to the same market and face the same issues.

The figure you requested for can be obtained from that link I sent, if only we would all take time to obtain facts. You stated Delta State contributed over 5 trillion to the National coffers. Please source? it might actually be more. Note that the crude oil in the land is a national resource, that’s why there’s so much agitation for true federalism.

What about the Cocoa, Coal and others, though small it is also contributing its widows might, this brings me to your question how much has others contributed? Again you can research that, its easy to obtain. Am not dwelling on contributions cos its off the scope, we are not discussing that, I tried to narrow my response to Delta State as an assessment criteria to handling Nigeria.

You stated few of the many achievements of Ibori. “The gigantic Bomadi Bridge” at N6 billion that’s less than the average monthly allocation for six months, you also stated the dualisation of Airport road and construction of Warri Statdium at what cost? Maybe N3 billion (my own estimate) half of another months allocation.

The projects are good and am happy but are they enough achievements for 8 years? Sports, Education, which Nigerian University is rated amongst the worlds top 100 (None) if even among the top 1000 (not sure now) why are Nigerians studying abroad? Nationally in sports Delta is good, but where do they stand in the international light? My brother its a global world, lets not be mediocres, we need visionary leadership that can take us to global limelight.

I suggested we should research on the south east asia development experience we really are not interested, we are concerned with the mundane, roads, bridges, school, hospitals etc these should be given, its only after that you can start talking about development, so imagine how far behind we are. We need to move at Jet speed, leaders that can build as well as expand simultaneously. Crude Oil alone can not take us there.


Let me expand our subject a bit. Do you know how much is controlled in the “City” where the investment banks in London are located, its more that the budget of the whole of Africa in short the developing world, then imagine how much America controls, these countries are massive. Do you know how much China has as external reserves it over $200 billion, yet they have no natural resource. They are engines of industrialization and trade.

I would try and get some journals so we can read if you guys are interested on how people build from nothing, on Africa’s development experience, why we are where we are.

Can our leadership deliver without crude oil, imagine. Come to think of it, crude oil should be an advantage but its become our greatest undoing, we don’t think again?

If in your assessment we should remain where we are its ok, please if you can listen to the debates of the House of Lords & Commons (UK parliament), check the plans of the Mayor of London, you will be amazed on what people are thinking.


NB: In development analysis how is data from the Middle East (Saudi, UAE etc) analysed, find out? Also find out how they discount the resources of these countries in analyzing data?

Djeresa  & others I really appreciate your position, but may I ask what criteria you have used in assessing performance.   You stated Ibori's contribution to the South-South through agitation for greater control of resources concluding that Ibori will push for true federalism and true democracy.  

Lets use statistics. Find below revenue distributed to Delta state from the federation account for the periods mentioned. This is apart from internally generated funds and other revenues accruable to the State Government.

Delta State being an Oil producing state we can only imagine the volume of such funds, I do not have data on that so I will not attempt to postulate any figure.

Month   Total Net Amount Received
December 2005 6,908,366,477.72
January 2006 6,817,931,192.35
February 2006 7,686,292,331.39
March 2006 8,093,570,010.16
April 2006 8,535,505,366.01
May 2006 6,977,262,151.36

TOTAL 45,018,927,528.99
AVERAGE 7,503,154,588.17

source: Federal Ministry of Finance Website
Link: http://www.fmf.gov.ng/detail.php?link=faac
(Thanks to Okonjo-Iweala we know exactly how much our governors receive)

45 Billion in six months and what can we see in terms of development. I am from the Niger Delta so please don’t play the ethnic card. While I personally agitate for true federalism and greater control of resources, as a nation is that our problem, will that bring development and jobs to our brothers in the creeks?

I am studying a MSC in Economics in the UK and recently did a course on "Growth and Structural Change", you will weep for Nigeria  . Please forget the illusion that Nigeria is a rich country, per capita income is less that $300 (amongst the poorest in the world) and more that 80% of the population live below $1 a day.

I challenge you all to read on the development experience of South East Asia, and you would weep a second time     for Africa its not only Nigeria. Our problem is not peculiar, we have just decided to be selfish and mediocres. Please read and educate yourselves, its not about Ibori being my man or not,  its about development as a nation. God was I ashamed of my leaders when I realised the vision of others, Europe, America and recently south east asia.

I will not dwell on whether Ibori is corrupt or an ex-convict the figures say it all. We wait till when all Governors are stripped of the immunity the constitution provides and pray we would have an improved EFCC then to do an unbiased job.

I leave our conscience to be the judge.

Please lets demandaccountability from our leader, lets not be selfish, whether am a leader of the south south assembly or not, we all go to the same market, we all want security and basic infrastructures, we all want , we need to know what our resources are being used for.

I have attached the May report for others interested in what their state governments are earning. You can also go to the Link for Local Governments and you will be amazed at the extent of waste in our land.
Since Local Government is not he subject matter i avoid the temptation.      

Djeresa & others I really appreciate your position, but may I ask what criteria you have used in assessing performance. You stated Ibori's contribution to the South-South through agitation for greater control of resources concluding that Ibori will push for true federalism and true democracy.

Lets use statistics. Find below revenue distributed to Delta state from the federation account for the periods mentioned. This is apart from internally generated funds and other revenues accruable to the State Government.

Delta State being an Oil producing state we can only imagine the volume of such funds, I do not have data on that so I will not attempt to postulate any figure.

Month Total Net Amount Received
December 2005 6,908,366,477.72
January 2006 6,817,931,192.35
February 2006 7,686,292,331.39
March 2006 8,093,570,010.16
April 2006 8,535,505,366.01
May 2006 6,977,262,151.36

TOTAL 45,018,927,528.99
AVERAGE 7,503,154,588.17

source: Federal Ministry of Finance Website
Link: http://www.fmf.gov.ng/detail.php?link=faac
(Thanks to Okonjo-Iweala we know exactly how much our governors receive)

45 Billion in six months and what can we see in terms of development. I am from the Niger Delta so please don’t play the ethnic card. While I personally agitate for true federalism and greater control of resources, as a nation is that our problem, will that bring development and jobs to our brothers in the creeks?

I am studying a MSC in Economics in the UK and recently did a course on "Growth and Structural Change", you will weep for Nigeria . Please forget the illusion that Nigeria is a rich country, per capita income is less that $300 (amongst the poorest in the world) and more that 80% of the population live below $1 a day.

I challenge you all to read on the development experience of South East Asia, and you would weep a second time for Africa its not only Nigeria. Our problem is not peculiar, we have just decided to be selfish and mediocres. Please read and educate yourselves, its not about Ibori being my man or not, its about development as a nation. God was I ashamed of my leaders when I realised the vision of others, Europe, America and recently south east asia.

I will not dwell on whether Ibori is corrupt or an ex-convict the figures say it all. We wait till when all Governors are stripped of the immunity the constitution provides and pray we would have an improved EFCC then to do an unbiased job.

I leave our conscience to be the judge.

Please lets demandaccountability from our leader, lets not be selfish, whether am a leader of the south south assembly or not, we all go to the same market, we all want security and basic infrastructures, we all want , we need to know what our resources are being used for.

I have attached the May report for others interested in what their state governments are earning. You can also go to the Link for Local Governments and you will be amazed at the extent of waste in our land.
Since Local Government is not he subject matter i avoid the temptation.

Hi,

Please i need sincere unbiased opinions.

I am about to complete my masters in the UK and thinking of relocationg home though i might have the option of staying (HSMP). I have about 5 years banking experience.

Given a situation where i have the option of an Oil company job (say Shell) and the option of a bank job. Which is a better choice- Career wise?

At the level (Middle management) i would be returning Money might not really be an issue as the banks are also paying pretty well.

I ask for a total and deep consideration, not just a surface , take the oil job, if so why? and if not why not?