₦airaland Forum

deejay1:
am not saying this can't happen but DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE IN WHAT YOU LISTEN TO ON BBC NEWS? I don't anyway

jockey112:
BBC Again !!!!!!!

Let us keep deceiving ourselves and blame BBC, yes BBC is lieing they paid "Donaman Atezan, 25" in Gboko _{(meaning the story can be verified, it is not a unanimous Nigerian living somewhere in the country, name, age and location was stated)} to tell a lie becos Nigeria must be destroyed at all cost.

Why wonder why we had such an election ?? perhaps we should blame the BBC for the thugs am sure they paid them to wreck the image of Nigeria.

@ belloti you need to understand nobody has anything against you or islam.

simmy raised good questions why don't the other fundamentalist go around killing and  david put it clearly its because the other religions are explicit.

I keep reading your post and wonder how u don't see the contradiction. You are proud of your religious obligations and agree with islamic positions on any aspect of life how then can you disagree with reckless and brutal murder of innocent soul who desecrate the Koran, when is it the Hahyth now of Koran that instructs such people should be killed, can't u see the people are innocent (as per the rules of a civil society) not your koranic rules.

Its okay you can't change anything and keep being the moderate muslim u are.

There is no need trying, everyone including muslims if they are honest can see through it, the ideology of the violence is gotten from Islamic teachings. Its the application that you are concerned with and attempting to interpret, the extremist are just interpreting it the way they deem fit, but the ideology of violence is from Islam.

4 Play:
doesn't his post effectively recognise "PPP" ?

Am sure it did.?


The BBC must really hate us and pls to those that want to post, kindly post where in the developed world people que up and fight to get water.

Again am not saying everywhere in Nigeria is like this, but why should we give them such an opportunity to ridicule us. If the situation didnt arise, the picture wouldnt be available. We are the architect of our fortune or misfortune. Truth be told access to water is still a big problem, so the picture is a fair representation of the water problem, a large proportion of the population still que up in public taps or buy water in Jerrycans. The picture is not a lie and we should be angry withourselves and not the BBC.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/6569057.stm

noblezone:
Whether it is for comaprison or not, the truth us that it is only bad news that makes news. There is this element in man that gets excited when the news is so bad. Media houses both of the printed and electronics always look for that exciting "news". If we don't want our dirty cloths to be washed by the public and in the public, we should wash it by ourselves.

Let us disappoint Bad News Hunters like the CNN, by improving on our situation.

@ jeshua did you read noblezone's comment. i definately dont think so. I so totally agree with you.

Once again i ask why are they not showing poverty stricken pictures of Singapore or Hong kong, do you think they dont have slumps or the poor in those countries??

If they are looking at you as if you just escaped from hell, let me ask you to you how do you look, Have you just escaped from hell? It may just be becos u are looking that way. Dont misunderstand me the discrimination and ignorant views are rampant i totally argee the "R" word is so alive but hey what do you expect. Put yourself in their shoes if you could help it, would u want a foreigner to come take all the good jobs in your country and leave the bad ones for you.

Please wake up, the discrimination is everywhere even back home, tribalism is so entrenched in our system, you cant get certain jobs if you are not from certain areas so i really dont see the issue.

Step up your game, develop yourself, respect yourself, dress decently and people would respect you. As noblezone said lets "disappoint the bad news hunters".

oyinboaja:
some people are always quick to believe we should be like westerners. very idiotic thought.

why state that she lives on about $1 dollar a day? Is the value of the dollar the same in america as it is in Nigeria? Can a dollar buy in america/UK what a dollar can buy in Nigeria? Make these yeye people go sleep jare.

Have you heard of the concept of "purchasing power parity", please go and research that before you come here and post unintelligent discussions. $1 a day is a UN criteria used to describe the poorest of the poorest standard of living, it has nothing to do with a currency its intrinsic or real value.

To your second post i really choose to ignore it, theres no need.

@ Ndipe its quite clear that our problem has been a history of mis-rule that to you guys theres no need for development as it would only favour the rich. Keep the huts you hear and tomorrow come here and shout that graduates have no jobs, that things are getting bad. No wonder the present political class can cling to  power as they do.

Imagine the comparison "Rasaki vis the maroko experience". So you think all over the world where it has been done that was what happened, instead of asking or researching how others got it right, how can their model be adapted to suit our own peculiar situation, the solution is to "do nothing".

Why do i even bother i hope its clear to you all that we deserve what we are getting, we are like this not because of any govt but because as a people we just may be retrogressive. Food for thought, i just don't know.

The point is that its becos its there they can show it. Yes it is the extreme case they might show from time to time but truth be told the average standard of living is pathetic, showing Lekki, Ikoyi, Allen or areas where u have relatively well off people would not give a true reflection of the living standard of the average Nigerian becos what %/proportion of the Nigerian population live in those areas.

The densely populated areas such as AJ or the rural areas as that portrayed in the picture constitute a large part of our population and those conditions are inhuman.

Lets get our acts together and develop then where would they see such pictures. Why dont they portray such a picture of Singapore or malaysia.

noblezone:
And what do we hope to gain from such? Just to show that they two have problems? Ok, but that is not an excuse for our retrogression as a continent.

@noblezone may God bless you for that intelligent statement.

@jeshua pls provide pictures (not this joke you are putting) and facts, state the countries and please tell us what percentage of the population are living that way.

Tell us the country's GNP per Capita and i implore you to post the picture of the low income class and not a junkie, homeless or society misfit who has collected social security and spent it on drugs and even at that lets still see the pictures and get the percentage of the population living that way.

@ jeshua oga i really dont understand your post nor can i correlate how what you have said has to do with whether the picture is a true reflection of Nigeria or how what you said has got to do with development and standard of living in Nigeria.

What is your point exactly?  Who is talking about restructuring or the misconception of an ignorant white boy. That there is wide misconception about Africa is no news, but that the picture reflects the low standard of living and harsh living conditions in Nigeria is also not in contention.

No body made us this way so blaming the west for our problems is so irresponsible. am so confused about your post who is talking about common wealth here, i dont understand, They see you and ask you if you are refugee or assylum seekers probably its because that is what blacks usually do, (i.e. Nigerian or ghanian claiming to be Liberian to obtain refugee status when there was war) and you wonder why you are asked stupid questions. At times this misconceptions are created by us so why blame them.

With such responses how can i wonder why we are so under-developed, is it the same Universities we all attended, pls lets put on our thinking caps. We need to step up our game,

Razorr:
Is the press not supposed to be independent?

Are there no laws in our land?

Are there no bodies assigned the task of monitoring T.V. broadcasts and taking the right legal actions against infringement of broadcasting laws?

You couldnt have said it better.

Let me attempt to address the warped reasoning and unintelligent arguement that "we cannot compare ourselves to the developed countries because it took them 5 trillion years to get there".

Agreed the today "advanced" countries have gone through different stages of development, pertinent to note is the agricultural age and industrial revolution which took them about a century to achieve. They have learnt from thier mistakes corrected it and improved on it. The unintellignet arguement is that we are just 40 years and can not compare ourselves to such societies, that it should take us a long time to get to where they are. When i ask the proponents of that school how long?? They cant state a time frame.

My response usually to them starts from asking what is the essence of education. What was the stage of education at the time in those countries. E.g they were just discovering management techniques (Henri fayol, taylor & all) which was suggesting that there is one best way of carrying out a task or discovering that factory work could be designed in stages leading to mass production. Economist were just discovering after the great depression that perhaps Adam's Smith laissez faire idea of living the economy alone was not the way forward and other schools emerged. Engineering was advancing on every front and the computer age came.

In summary it was a discovery stage for them. My thinking is that the west has done the hard work. The body of knowledge now exist so i dont need to go through the discovery stage, all i need to do is translate the knowledge, i just need to play catch-up, million of Nigerians and Africans are round the world studying all the courses from Engineering to fianance to the applied arts, this has been going on since the 40's but whilst the Asians were translating theirs to development for all, we were busy building personal empires that refuse to pay appropriate wages to labour hence labour was not encouraged to put its best. Before the advent of the banking industry and telecomms, Oil was the only industry paying a living wage and it was becos it was run by the so called advanced countries. They had learnt that you need to pay and motivate labour to earn profit. At least a generation in banking learnt and today the results can be seen.

What am i saying?? Please we dont need a century to play catch-up, its just catch-up we are not discovering any new frontier, Asia has done it in less than 3 decades. In the 60's the predictions was that Africa would perform better than Asia in terms of development due to the presence of abundant natural resources but alas results have shown different figures to the prediction. Why is it so??

If in 2007 we need to "toast" educated folks why their villages should give way for development and get resistance from the educated one i really find it hard to see where the jobs will come from, whether the govt or privat firms will open companies that will do nothing. Its this expansion/construction that would bring the jobs all forms of engineering, finance to fund the projects and all sorts. The economy will expand new industries will emerge as each area discover what they can produce with comparative advantage (as Tinapa is showing for example).

Or some still feel the issue is about "Yam and Akara" and cant see beyond the bias of the west, to force us to improve ourselves and see where on earth the west will get such pictures. Why dont they show such pictures of Singapore. Please lets stop this mental laziness.

@Ndipe i have read your response you are not an advocate of mediocrity but still feel we should compare ourselves with Somalia, Burkina Faso & the likes (u even ommitted Ghana). You stated that making the comparison is an unfair comparision i thought you would attempt to compare with Malaysia, Singapore (asian tigers) since it can be shown that in the 60's we were at the same level of development but alas you choose the failed states as comparison.

Do the people of the west deserve a better living condition because they are "Advanced" or the warped arguement that they are 1 million years old. How come in a space of 20-30 years the asians have achieved economic growth and improved standard of living that is now compareable to the so called Advanced countries.

What do you mean pessimist of Nigeria ?? or "Count your Blessings", If it is sitting down and comparing myself to failure (Somalia, Burkina Faso) and deceiving myself that am still better off than some people then i wont be party to such.

Whether i will approve of my village being turned into a mega-city. What have i been singing since, if the development plans which should consider all broader issues including the preservation of certain historical sights, the environment and certain other criteria state that my village should be demolished and give way to a mega-city, please gladfully so be it, i will support it with all my might and even contribute in drafting the policies. What is the economic value of the huts or has it made the people better. You seem to forget the cities today where once villages.

oh pilgrim.1 you upset me. This guy doesnt deserve to be answered, the silence treatment is what he deserves, until he shows good faith pls can people ignore him and discuss issues that will edify and cause each other to grow.

Giving him such a response portrays you are attempting to divert issues, he should answer if in his opinion he deserves to be answered, there are other muslims in here that can come and ask but not babs787.

@ stanech but come to think of it, i havent read any report that states he instigated the violence or was present at the so-called "peaceful demonstration". The report i read stated that he called for the cancellation of the results.

@dazangel11, am not so interested in whether Lucky was advised, OBJ visited or even who he supported in this election. He has left a mark in the hall of shame and it will follow him forever. Mr. Fix it should keep at it, we are all hoping Adams will take this case seriously and provide facts to the courts. Its a matter of time before a lot of this thugs loose control as long as the courts will wake up to its responsibility, its a matter of time before all this nonsense will stop. At least the supreme court has shown clearly that it would listen to cases.

@ babs787,

You are still here asking questions

In your opinion do you think you derserve to be answered,

@ mamajama personally a lot of people took keen interest in the politics of benin becos of the unchecked activities of Lucky Igbinedion for the past 8 years, the governor has ruined the state so bad that you dont need rocket science to know sense people anger. He enjoys his immunity as governor. Truth be told the PDP didnt win election in Benin. People monitored the results on ground and even independent monitors are calling for the cancellation of the results in 10 states, Edo state inclusive.

http://www.thisdayonline.com/nview.php?id=75734

My opinion is that the protest should be done within the confines of the law and not that an irregularity didnt occur. It will be pure naivety to suggest that it is heresays and that INEC results are the true results, why the choice of the 10 states why not the other states the PDP won, a misnomer has definately taken place.

@ stanech i agree with you the matter should be taken to court, we need to learn to respect and act within the confines of the law. At least the courts are beginning to wake up to their responsibilities, i only hope the opposition have collected their evidence and not just shouting.

What has Obasanjo got to do with this issue? and whats your point exactly?

You say everyone is corrupt including oshimole? so what should we do

@ elempiro i totally agree with u, i have friends in the areas i mentioned and they state that Adams won the election clearly same figure u stated about 70% of votes castes, some of them even have figures as they moved from centre to centre collating the results. I agree that there might be a fixing going on, am not saying leave it am saying fight it as the constitution says, this might well be the opportunity to wrestle PDP out of benin as Tinubu has successfully done in Lagos. There seems to be enough evidence they should use it. I know its difficult but we have to build a society that respects and obeys laws.

@ jeshua i share your frustration. You have given a good summary of the current political class, criminals, ex-soilders and all, but why is it so?? This change has to be gradual not (revolution) as political science students would hope, i really am interested in how protest against this election results would be conducted, the point is that we must live within the confines of the law. Even in Ameria its happened with Bush & Gore but Gore obeyed the courts ruling even if he was against it.

megapro wats the results like in the house of assembly. If the majority is not PDP from day one they can make life unbearable for the governor, if the claims that Adams won is true the house results should show this.

@ nuzo Oga what you call OBJ's courts just decided Atiku can contest elections, which i know is clearly against what he wants.

Pls start the revolution and take to the streets, i agree that that extreme measures are required so pls start it, in the alternative before we get to that organised protest stage please (and not revolution as you wish) where millions can match to Abuja or any state capital and force the president or governor to resign, pls lets be civil and live within the confines of the law.

Ndipe:
@Buluti, in a perfect world, that woman would be living a luxurious life at her age, instead of relying on subsitence labor for survival. However, in today's society, there exist different social segments/classes, even in America. At least, she is better than the hordes of homeless people in America and Britain, or the jobless, not sure on how to pay their bills, or where their next meal would come from. Life is not about bemoaning your losses, it is about counting your blessings everyday. Without so, bitterness would gradually descend on you and rob you of the inability to appreciate life. I have seen homeless people in America, regarded as the richest country in the world. And to be frank, that woman's life is better than theirs.

So, BBC, if their aim was to make a mockery of Nigeria, has failed woefully. Tell me, why is it hard to present a positive picture of Africa? Nobody should tell me that bad news sells, because the report about America, presented by foreign journalists to Africa, in some cases are positive. Our people rely on those images, hence the quest to move to America for greener pastures.

@ Ndipe i agree with you that there are social segments we have the low, middle and high class in the society or definately. In addition i agree we should appreciate life but i disagree that we should remain under developed living in conditions that are inhuman, i disagree that the desire to be better or call conditions bad is not being appreciative and loosing the essence of life, i don't agree at all. 

Maybe you don't understand me so let me try and be clear, i appreciate our unique culture and traditional society (its beautiful in my opinion), i appreciate the fact that there would always be the homeless amongst us (even the bible states that), My issue is what percentage of the population is homeless, what is the standard of living of the low income class.

Please are we living in denial i wont speak of the US but in the UK wats the % of the population, theres social benefit to the unemployed that can sustain them at a decent level, the coucil flats meet a minimum standard of living. Thats to the jobless and homeless. This woman is not she is self employed. So being in the low income class should she be living at that level. The Uk govt has a target to reduce the number of families living below £16,000 per annum by about  10%, because that what constitutes the low income, with 16k a year do u know the standard of livin in the UK. Am not comparing societies am comparing living standards. You say she is livin better thn people in America and UK by what do you make that comparision?? Please don't comapre her with the junkies and society misfits because shes not, shes a hard working woman living in the low income class.

Again i say if you think that life style is good, i wish it for you. If its okay then you should have no problems with it.

Please lets face issues we need to develop, we are extremely poor and under developed, China is demolishing the rural areas and building mega cities every where if they were ok u think the development would come, we need to move beyond this subsistence living.

Again i advise you all to look at issues form the west objectively, i agree that the picture of Africa being portrayed is distorted but what are the options we Africa are giving to them, tomorrow if they show violent elections we would cry what are we seeing, in my opinion showing lekki does not capture the true standard of living of the average Nigeria (as the home videos do) that is movie anyway this is documentary and real life.

The middile class is growing in Nigeria thanks to the banking and telecoms industry, that needs to be expanded. The low income class deserve a right to a decent life, the day should come when the labourer, driver, factory workers, i dare say junior civil servants can afford a "human" life, this conditions are inhuman.

Reading the comments so far its been very clear that our drive to a civil society would take a bit longer. I do support Adams and have spoken to people in benin, akoko-edo and uromi, and this people have confirmed that Adams won the election (their opinions though), they say that the clamour for change across the state is so great that the PDP couldnt have won more than 25% of total votes casted, they claim the past governor in the person of Lucky Igbinedion was a disaster that the guy is the worst governor ever.

Having said this, i think i share the sentiments of the election being rigged, but the question is what is the constitutional due process to follow when you have a grievance with rigging. Everyone expected the PDP to rig, Anenih doesnt want to loose that state so AC should have been prepared to gather hard evidence, mobile phones are so reliable these days that 2-3 hours of recording can take place, in addition statements of people can be collected am not a lawyer to determine what can be evidence but that should be what Adams and his supporters should be collecting.

We talk of peaceful demonstration is that what the constitution states, AC is a political party not a pressure group or human rights organisation, leave them to do that because within the confines of laws they are allowed to express grievance via demonstrations. Oshimole should take his case to the election tribunal, if he is not satisfied then he can take his case as far as he wants up to the supreme court. We can't continue to "riot peacefully" if we don't accept results, which is why it is important that our institutions are strong and independent, at least the courts are starting to show that.

Please lets stop this mentalilty we are civil people, the answer to what should he do, he should go to the election tribunals, make press statements, gather evidence, get the papers talking gather momentum etc. If we are not okay with the system then we should get the national assembly to change the process. We must obey the law even if we don't like it.

saintchux:
@edygirl,
I just finish eating it. At the junction near my office, they fry it and people from all walk of life to buy it. People come with cars to buy. Let us stop condemning what people enjoy here because it appeared in BBC. If BBC commended it our people will be happy that it appeared in BBC.

In your opinion the issue is about "akara" and yam. Such intelligence.

alabiyemmy:
what is wrong in the picture? i bet you want to see pictures of MacDonalds in nigeria or overstuffed children or obese men and women who has stuffed more than is necessary? At least she makes 2,300 per day, how many so called graduates make that in their bank jobs?

I guess if pictures of nigerians in their sleek cars and modernised houses are shown, people will not blame that on OBJ's government.

Again you guys just fail to see the issue, do you think its about what she is selling, every day i get to understand more about ourselves and see why we are where we are. Its not about food its about income, the living conditions, housing, water, electricity.

The woman lives on a tight budget N1,800 and on a very good day N2,300, and you think thats profit. She has to buy fire wood, buy water, cook in extremely difficult conditions (everyday) and still has to buy the materials needed to prepare the food, and you say thats good, i pray you live in that condition and earn as she does since you think its better than what the graduate earns.

She is 50 years old, walks 1 and a half hours to buy her supplies. She cooks in extreme conditions, she lives in a 2 room hut and eat "leftovers" with her kids after the days sale. She states that things have gotten worse and actually wants a better life.

Somebody raised a point earlier on empowering widows but none of you recognised that very crucial point, alas its all about Yam and Akara, go and buy more this evening you hear.

Ndipe:
There is dignity in labor, so BBC should leave us alone. In as much as I sympathize with the woman's plight with her inlaws and I posted a short story about widowhood in Nigeria (https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-28531.0.html), BBC should also film pictures of the homeless in Britain, the homeless in America, the dayworkers in America and quit painting Nigeria black.

Yeah, lifestyle for the underclass has fallen abysmally, but for us, we can make a difference. Sometimes, I think Nigerians are their worst enemy. On another Nigerian webboard, I suggested to the members that maybe they should be a charity fund raised for one student who had scored distinction in all his classes and was named West Africa's best high school student, or so. One guy countered that any funds should be set aside for the less privileged, like the the disabled, and not for a student who aced his papers in the exams.

Did you hear them attack what she is doing? There no other society that recognises diginity of labour than the west, nobody looks down on you based on what you do. On the contrary thats our own shortcoming and the BBC actually complemented her, its the conditions of living that is being exposed. Cant you see the pictures.

And who told you the BBC doesnt show documentaries on the ills in their society, you think Nigeria is the most important subject to them, do you know the coverage of the BBC. Please on an objective note those living in the UK should please comment on the level of criticism the media puts on their own government and system.

You guys can go ahead and place whatever pictures you want to, truth be told in reality (not potentials) we are an extremely poor country with a large proportion of the population living in harsh human conditions. What propotion of the population live in Lekki, how many people live in Ajegunle?? and you want them to show pictures of Lekki??

The point is not that the BBC is not be biased but that we should be able to differentiate issues. The standard of living needs to improve, with such responses from Nigerians then theres no need for development.

I really find it hard to understand us. For the anti-west camp anything from the west has a negative agenda.

The picture shows clearly the extremely low standard of living in Nigeria, water, electricity, housing etc. The woman has to buy a jerican of water to bath her kids can you beat that.

Yes we have the poor everywhere but the question is what percentage of the population live in abject poverty, i.e live below $1 a day, and what is the GNP per capita of the nations. Bacslider you say there are people begging in London those folks are junkies that have spent their Giro (social benefit) stupidly on drugs and need more money to fund their habit. The govt you are talking about attempts to provide accomodation to the low income (council flats), health and has goals to meet in terms of the income of its citizens and hence standard of living.

I repeat again the question is what percentage of the population live below the poverty line, what is the standard of living of the average Nigerian.  

The picture is pathetic and we should all weep that despite the abundant human resources we have we can not think and design a prosperous system that assures a minimum standard of living to its citizens, you are all here thinking upside down.

Thank God for a sight of change (pls dont turn this into an OBJ arguement it is not) the few technocrats have tried to institute some changes we just hope there will be a bit of continuity to translate to meaningful development.

We should all be ashamed and weeping instead of attacking the BBC reporter. sss _hiss

Ok i see its not in the Koran, its in the Hadiyth or the other book on the life of mohammed, if you had good intentions to correct me you would have directed me in the right path but no you prefer to play around in circles, as i said i never knew of the hadiyth before now.

To your question why would I meaningfuly desecrate the Koran, my response to you is that its just a book, made from paper if i choose to why shouldnt i??, if i take your Koran and tear from the back the plain path to write somethin u would kill me abi, i have torn from several of my bibles, to give people to write numbers and have agreed to tearing that part of my bible, i have several bibles so whats the big deal, my whole intention is to demystify the book but alas you can't see it.

Well as i said its not an issue of christain vs Muslim, please i really am not bothered what people choose to believe but when its beginning to affect other lives, then i want to understand the ideology. So please if its in the hadiyth or the other book can you provide the text of where in any Islam literature it is there.

I have had several friends that their parents were extremely rich in the north and during a riot all they had was burnt to ashes,hotels, all sorts of investments but back then it was religious as well as political but clearly the political undertone has little or nothing to do with it, it might well be in the tenets of Islam.

NB: am not asking u to explain just provide the text from the hadyth or where it is.

@ davidylan am coming to the conclusion that muslims have a reverse IQ, i dont like it or want to but clearly their reasoning pattern suggest it greatly.

No need attempting to disprove his "ridicolous" logic to him, (belloti) he just wont see it becos he thinks it is coming from a christain, such ignorance.

I personally find it funny that educated folks like babs787, belloti cant see that they wasted their time getting an education they should have gone to Koranic school because clearly it hasnt helped them. For him to still feel that it is okay to kill for a religion (in certain conditions) clearly is an insult to common sense and the education he has.

Even the most ridicolous doctrines and religions i have heard empasize forgiveness above any other virtue, this issue is really deeply rooted.

babs787 i can see where this is leading and i wont be part of it. Go on asking questions am sure a lot of christains will oblige you.

I really wanted to read the text from the Koran but it seems you guys want to hide it, when i have a bit more time i will go on the net i am sure i will get my answers.

You might wish to speak to belloti who stated otherwise on the desecration issue from the Koran, i dont think i need the info anymore, you are not as informed as you would want to look. Its in responding to difficult questions, your presentation of issues and ability to persuade and guide your readers that shows one really learned in anything. Your ability to do same leaves much to be desired.

The acts of you guys in here tells a lot about Islam to the reader, i hope you know. If i were not a christain the attempts by the christains to take on issues and even argue within themselves on issues would tell me much of the faith, that it is one that allows for your own individual development and growth, the responses from muslims have been so stereo typed that i really wonder why fear in the religion is so deep.

Am beginning to get my answers anyway and understand the fundamentalist reasoning pattern, if the liberals can be this scared of "not wanting to sin" i know what to expect from the fundamentalist.

@ belloti please would you provide me the full text from the Koran on this desecration issue.

belloti in all sincerity i am alarmed at your response no one needs your endorsement or wants you to please them, we want a safe society for all, irrespective of our differences, race, tribes, religion etc.

Whether you believe it or not, no religion has the right to ask you to murder for it , be it in the case of wilful insults, deliberate provocation, no matter the issue.

The only institution allowed to serve the death penalty is the state and then the death penalty is frowned about in many states.

Please stop looking at the issue as christain vs muslims, because it is not.  Its an issue against civil society. I personally ensure my religion does not ask me to do what is against the dictates of a civil society and if tomorrow the pope or the most annointed of God in the name of religion comes and ask followers to kill, am sure the protest will be from within their ranks, infact they can't try it, and i dare say even if the Bible asks me to kill for whatever reason i wont i will tell God, that father am sorry on this i can't, you will have to forgive me.

That is what we are calling from you and other muslims that there should be protest from within the ranks in Islam that enough is enough, but that can only be achieved if the tenets of the faith does not dictate it and if it does its time to question the book??

belloti:
As for baby, yes i once told you that islam sanctions the killing of apostates and today i also want to let you know that Islam sanctions the killing for deliberate desceration and abuse of the Holy Quran. However, i believe the case of the gombe lady has no malicious intent, it was a big miscalculation by the kids and we all condemn it. However, for the record, if any sane person intentionally and maliciously abused the holy book, the sharia verdict is death penalty.

@ belloti i sincerely hope you didnt make that statement out of anger. Please can you provide the full text from the Quran i want to see it for myself.

Question: So if i intentionally and deliberately tear a page from someones Quran and use it for something really really stupid, i should be killed? Secondly, how should the death verdict be executed, is it by the person who has the Quran or the person should call other muslim faithfuls or there should be a constituted authority to carry out the verdict.

While we practise our religions can we all understand that we live in a civil society with a constitution.

In all honesty how can you say the KIDS miscalculated. What did you call them KIDS, in your opinion how on earth do you think they can distinguish between complex issues as realising when an act is intentional or deliberate. In court it takes the best law minds and judges to attempt to establish if a crime was committed intentionally and they still make mistakes, and here you expect kids to establish "intent".??

Please provide the full text, then our debate will start from there.

babs787 thanx for your reply, you can attest your tolerance to being a muslim, its your opinion and you are entitled to same. I definately have muslim friends that are not violent very tolerant fun loving people (though they used to say they are not serious muslims).

So i get your point. In addition i have read the quotations you provided not being a muslim and being just verses (not the whole text) i don't want to misquote but the text is so ambigous, Quran 17:33 has "except for a just cause, the 2nd part can also be easily abused it gives room for excesses. Was it Karl Marx that said religion is the opium of the masses and with such room provided, we know the effect of opium on its user it leads to irrational acts.

But again i don't want to use that as a bases because it is not enough, in my opinion it does not capture the true intent of the writer of that passage, i don't want to misquote.

Having said that you have not answered my question and i will explain why?

I asked what the Quran said categorically on the desecration of the Quran? I didnt ask about killing in general? Is there a portion of the Quran that speaks about "your " Quran and its desecration and what your reaction should be. If there is none or you havent come across,  say so and lets move on.

Secondly you said the issue had been treated in other threads please provide it. Please don't provide a vague thread where exchanges were taking place,  Islam is peace(Muslim), Islam is not Peace (Christain) and the likes, No thats not what am asking or looking for. This is for my personal use because i want to understand, a thread that had dealt with issues like a debate showing full text and not mere verses explaining this desecration of the Quran.

I am taking the issues i don't understand with Islam one at a time to understand, its the desecration of the Quran that led to the death in Gombe, so am starting from there.

Again please don't take round me in circles i am serious, theres no muslim around me i wouldnt have bothered asking on Nairaland if i were back home i would have gone to an Imam, if you can help me do so, if you can't say so and move on. I really am getting tired of asking the same question. We are educated people irrespective of our religion so lets act accordingly.

[quote author=Burn_Cross link=topic=46496.msg1014746#msg1014746 date=1175689406]OK mam (buluti), I'll be careful the next time,

I think what you (buluti) is that you don't have the capability to read between the lines so you have surpassed my message to that ignorant JEW that was foolishly trying to manipulate my words So, I clarified to him that the Stinky JEWs don't claim the land of Palestine because they brought wealth & prosperity from the Europe & other countries to this land but the claim SO FOOLISHLY that since they were living there thousand of years ago, so it is their Damn idiotic right to come and claim it as the promised land,

Really foolish idea? right? that what I have expressed in my earlier email that no one can claim for a piece of land by ancestry rights, since this world belong to the whole human community,

So, I tried to put a lot of intelligence for the Wise ones I need some just ask! [/quote]I give up, i just do,  with such level of intelligence as exhibited above i have nothing to say.

Now this is definately a joke, babs787 you keep accusing people of the same crime you are guilty of, seeking equity my friend you must come with clean hands.

babs787:
Like I keep saying, christians will never stop amusing me. Christians have been asking muslims same questions over and over again yet no muslims ignored or told them that they have been answered, they (muslims) have been providing the answers despite the fact that they (christians) have been re-bringing the same questions but here, the drama continues,,,,

To the issue of mrmayor, he provided the link based on my question whether jews re-bury the dead after three days and NOT on MARY COMING TO TAKE THE CORPSE.

You have chosen tacitly to ignore my post and you make such a statement as that boldened above. Truth be told that statement is a lie, again i restate the question has never been answered and if it has can you please provide the link to the thread i have checked and found nothing, maybe you can do the honours.

babs787 until then you have no moral justification to make any such accusation to anyone. The question is quite simple and clear, please read my earlier post lets, stop this game if you don't want to sin as drixie in the other post stated, then just say so.

[quote author=Burn_Cross link=topic=46496.msg1014044#msg1014044 date=1175673285]Ah, Now I have to respond again to an utterly stupid person (4 Play).

Well, I really don't know these stinking JEWs are so stupid?? They must claim Palestine for the development reasons as described by our painfully incorrect Mr. 4 play, Why on earth these Idiotic JEWs are asking for Palestine as they were living out there Thousands of years ago (hehehehehe), and they called themselves THE CHOSEN ONES's (hahahaha), Well, why on earth would GOD choose these low life stinking JEWs on other Human beings God must had chosen HITLER to purify the world from their sinking existence,

Just follow the slogan as "Chew the Jew" [/quote]Now this is the most un-intelligent post i have ever seen on Nairaland.

The guy just extended your logic the logic you provided, instead of reacting by attempting to correct any misrepresentation or accept the flaw in your logic which is quite obvious you resorted to thinking up-side down.

Either we are christains or muslims does not give us the right to ex-hibit such level of ignorance. It has nothing to do with religion but with our IQ.

babs787:
No sir. My tolerance has nothing to do with western influence. There are verses in the Quran that go against exceeding limit, killing, etc. Allah does not support killing. We have muslims from the North that didnt have western influence yet they are very peaceful, tolerant etc.

A person that takes another soul is doomed for hell.

Please babs787, you dont have western influence the very fact that you are on this forum can constitute western influence. You surf the net, you hear local & foreign news, you are educated securlarly (well i guess ) etc what do you call that, lets not deceive ourselves if u dont want to call it western influence, call it enlightenment at least we know what we are talking about,

If truely the Quran is against killing please show me, especially pertaining to this desecration matter i really truely want to understand

In addition what do u call "exceeding limit", My question and again its sincere if the Quran is against killing how come the suicide bombers and this babaric behaviour we observe in Nigeria, where do they get their support from, again i ask the question where does the ideology originate from, if its not the Quran, where??