₦airaland Forum

^ ^^^^

Ive always known that you were lacking in intelligence, but you have now shown me a new side to your s.tup.dity by actually going as far as referring to my mother - loser, grow up and learn to take your humiliation like a man and not like an overgrown school boy!!!

stmarc32:
@Cap28 i havent heard of him but i'll check him out

@ Morpehus the rhetorical question here is if i was interested in books that only support my so called anti western ideology why would i read a book by Kissinger?

Truth of the matter is that any sort of negotiation by these puppets  we call leaders will only be beneficial to the same western corporations that put them there , Look at the Niger Delta , our government  constantly sends  troops there  to help Shell and Exxon mobil displace  land owners and fishermen,

Ahh Kissinger - have you seen Christopher Hitchen's (a british intellectual) documentary on him?

and have you read his NSSM 200 (National Security State Memorandum 200) written in 1974 when he was Nixon's national security adviser?  In this document he recommends the use of war, famine, biological warfare and control by western nations over food supply to various third world nations with high population (nigeria was one of the ones mentioned)  IN ORDER TO REDUCE THESE COUNTRIES POPULATION.

This document was classified until 1989 when it became declassified under the freedom of information act.

by the way, dont even bother asking morpheus about kissinger because he has never heard of him

martinosi:
Hmmm look at what Nigel Farage said about the British MPs, @ 5.50 minute of this clip
sooo sooo true,

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqKdDNM7jpQ[/flash]

Yes he's absolutely right, the current coalition govt is made of upper class english men who attended Eton (an exclusive private boarding school for boys which was established for young english aristocrats ) and a mixed bag of over privileged millionaires who have never done an honest days work in their life, he is right when he says many of them (if not all of them)have no idea how ordinary people live.
David Cameron comes from an aristocratic background and his wife is the daughter of a baronet - so not exactly representative of the people who they govern but britain has always been run by a group known as "the establishment" or the elite.

stmarc32:
@cap28 Don't worry you will always have knuckleheads like Morpheus who refuse to acknowledge that everything happening now is history repeating itself ,   only difference now is that the puppet controlling the guns and bombs has a black face

bro ive given up on morpheus he's beyond help

i dont know if you've heard of this guy Dr Cornell West -  an african american intellectual, - he actually describes Obama as a "black mascot of the white oligarchs that run wall street":


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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_Dqkm1gXk8[/flash]

debosky:
We are no longer servicing debt owed the Paris Club. We paid $12.4 billion and received debt relief of $18 billion on the Paris Club debt.

Any debt servicing is for other debts owed to other organisations outside the Paris Club, which stood at roughly $5bn as at 2006.

Nevertheless, settling the overwhelming bulk (30bn out of 35bn) of Nigeria's foreign debt remains a phenomenal achievement.

http://www.dmo.gov.ng/debtrelief/nigdebtreldeal.php

What is the phenomenal acheivement here?

We repaid an INFLATED debt, the bulk of which was made up of astronomical interest and you call that a phenomenal acheivement - honestly i dont understand why we reason like this.

the nigerian govt should have insisted that a moratorium be placed on the interest not just given away that huge sum of money, have you any idea what $12billion dollars is?  this is in a country where people are living on the equivalent of $2 a day - a fraction of that money could have been used for various projects which woudl have alleviated poverty and illiteracy and in your mind you think it was a good idea to hand it over to a bunch of crooks.

this is why i say we will never get anywhere as a people because we cant even make decisions that are in our collective best interest - do you know the people of Iceland are owing british and dutch banks £3.4 billion?

After  three Icelandic banks went bankrupt at the start of this recession, britain and the netherlands started demanding full repayment of this money by 2024  - the President of Iceland refused to sign a bill promising to repay this money, instead he insisted on having a referendum putting the issue to his people.  The Icelandic people responded and 70% of the population have said NO WE ARE NOT PAYING YOU £3.4 BILLION over a space of 13 years because it will impose too much hardship and suffering on our people, we simply cant afford to repay that kind of money right now- do you see why its good to have a working democracy? - contrast that with Okonjo Iweala's decision to pay a whopping $12 billion dollars  within a space of just ONE YEAR!!!! can you not see that we are fools for even thinking that Okonjo Iweala is anything more than a World bank lap dog?

debosky:
The US currently spends over $400 bn on interest payments annually on its debts annually - let's stick to facts and not make baseless comments.

The treasury bills are sold, but they have to be redeemed by buying them back on maturation and the government continues to do that.

The value of the US dollar is FALLING because the US  federal reserve keeps printing more and more money, the longer the  chinese (and other creditors) hold on to these treasury bills the more the value falls, thats why the chinese (in particular) have been dumping them BEFORE they mature.  what im driving at is that the americans  are actually paying back LESS than what they are borrowing - unlike nigeria.

The time a debt was incurred is irrelevant here - the crux of the matter is that the money is legitimately owed, due to the foolishness of previous governments.

its very relevant because all nigeria was doing was paying vastly inflated interest rates, why do you think african nations were campaigning for debt cancellation?  Its because they discovered that they were being cheated with these huge unjustifiable interst payments.
im not exonerating the nigerian govt for borrowing this money but a lot of the borrowing was done because nigeiria wasnt making enough revenue from oil sales as oil prices began falling in the late 70s, a combination of falling oil prices, corruption and wasteful spending on white elephant projects actually forced nigeria to go aborrowing.

debosky:
Would you rather the $35bn continue to hang over our heads in perpetuity? Instead of continuing to service debts that would never go away, why not take one hit and let the rest be forgiven?

Actually the $18billion was in part  payment of the outstanding amount,  i think we're still servicing this debt.
this wasnt a good deal for nigeria.

Okonjo Iweala - i suppose she's back to finish off where she left off.

When she served during the OBJ administration she "negotiated" a debt repayment to the paris club of $18 billion dollars  - the largest transfer of wealth from an african country to the western world in modern history - why negotiate the transfer of such a garguntuan sum? couldnt a fairer negotiation have been reached?  surely that huge sum could have been whittled down to something much more reasonable.  In a country where the education and health services have more or less collapsed due to lack of funding why was it necessary to part with such a huge sum to these international creditors, surely part of that money could have been better spent on schools and hospitals?

america owes $3 trillion dollars to its chinese, japanese and european creditors, i dont see the americans making these type of huge payments , all they do is offer their creditors treasury bills that continue to drop in value, there is no way in hell that the americans would have offered to pay that kind of sum to any of their creditors  (and they are a rich nation) so why would nigeria think it a good idea to get this woman back into office to carry on this type of madness?

when you take into consideration that nigeria had not borrowed from the IMF since 1992 it makes that negotiation look even more unacceptable - the bottom line is - this woman is no good for the progress of nigeria, she is merely a stooge for the international financial organisations - she will oversee the transfer of more of nigeria's wealth into the hands of these vultures and that is precisely why the americans have recommended she serve in GEJ's govt.

here is an excerpt from a wilki leaks dump which was reported in reuters explaining how Pfizer got nigeria to make an out of court settlement with respect to the children who died and suffered brain damage as  a result of being innoculated with a drug which is actually BANNED in europe, apparently the then attorney general Michael Aaondoaka who was threatening legal action against Pfizer was BLACKMAILED into dropping the case, perhaps the same treatment was used on Shekarau to convince him to change his story - hence his u turn:

NEW YORK, Dec 10 (Reuters) - U.S. drugmaker Pfizer (PFE.N) hired investigators to find evidence of corruption against Nigeria's attorney general to convince him to drop legal action against the company over a drug trial involving children the Guardian newspaper reported, citing U.S. diplomatic cables made public by WikiLeaks.

Nigeria's Kano state sued the world's largest drugmaker in May 2007 for $2 billion over testing of the meningitis drug Trovan. State authorities said the tests killed 11 children and left dozens disabled. [ID:nN29144086]

Pfizer and Kano's state government signed a $75 million settlement on July 30.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/12/10/wikileaks-pfizer-nigeria-idUSN1014209820101210

^^^^

let me ask you a question and im not refusing to answer your question becuase i will, but if an overwhelming number of young girls who were innoculated with a polio vaccine eventually start showing signs of infertility a few years later will you term that as pure coincidence or will you want to see if their condition might be linked to the innoculations that all of them had?

Shekarau invited in medical experts and tests were conducted - to date no one knows whether a link was established or not becuase soon after Shekarau made a complete u turn on his earlier statement -

The point is Shekarau was right to take the stance he did because in 2007 Pfizer were responsible for causing the death of 11 children and the brain damage of many others in kano state following the use of an untested vaccine.

In that instance Pfizer agreed to settle out of court, perhaps Shekarau was unwilling to go down the same route again.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/jun/05/health.healthandwellbeing1?INTCMP=SRCH

debosky:
What is 'very true' about a claim that was proven to be baseless? Was there any proof of the fertility problems?

The greatest exhibition of idiocy by Shekarau in this case was that it was children being immunised for polio, NOT grown adults. How would children immunised start showing fertility problems? Or did the so called leaders actually identify those who were immunised 20 years ago and now have issues giving birth?

What a load of tripe. More Nigerian women and children die in childbirth and soon after and all you can do is come up with another harebrained conspiracy theory.

You are talking complete bollocks - who told you ONLY children were being immunised - in many cases you had young girls of 12 and 13 being immunised many of whom had already attained puberty, in the north muslim girls are married off as soon as they reach puberty - it was girls from this particular group who were having problems with fertility - and this is why Shekarau intervened.

Instead of talking crap why not do the research - im really sick and tired of educating people like you.

The destabilisation of nigeria is now underway.

Sun of god:
Thank you!!!

Every time 'Westerners' do us a favour we end up in a worse predicament.

Who's requested they come and vacinate us again?

The worst thing about this plan is that children are targeted thereby affecting our future generations and putting the whole race at risk.

But as far as our leaders are concerned - as long as they are paid they will go along with anything.

Very true, although Shekarau - former governor of kano state temporarily halted the use of the polio vaccines provided by WHO because the local muslim leaders started complaining that many of their women who had been innoculated were having fertility problems.
Shekarau was then demonised by the western pharmaceutical companies for being an alarmist.

the end game of the american and european plutocrats is the depopulation of the african continent - nothing these people are doing now suprises me becuase this has been underway since the late 1960s they do not want any form of competition from africa whatsoever and the best way to stop it is through manpower depletion or depopulation, they created HIV aids - laced polio vaccines with the virus and innoculated millions of african men women and children with it mainly in central and south africa - this is why these areas are suffering high levels of hiv aids, but many africans are too ignorant to accept and recognise the awful truth.

Ive known about Bill Gates involvement in the depopulation agenda for years - its not just him - Ted Turner of CNN is also a large donor towards supposed vaccination programmes designed to cut down on african populations, again in the 1970s the reduction of africa's population became official govt policy and was considered an issue affecting america's national security.

Why all of a sudden is the nigerian govt being told to implement a 3 child per family policy by the WHO, this is all part of the agenda of population control in africa, they will enforce this policy by controlling the food supply - many african countries are totally dependant on importation of foreign foods - if an african country refuses to go along wiht the population control agenda they could find their food supply being cut off.
if you look at agribusinesses like Monsanto you will find out that they along with some other major multinational food manufacturers are aiming for total and complete control over the world's food supply - the aim is to have the power to determine who gets to eat and who gets to starve.

^^^^^

if you think nigeria which has sold out its own people for close to 51 years now has the same bargaining power as an up and coming superpower like china - you really do need to have your head examined - like i said - enjoy your coming enslavement

^^^

the problem with dumb africans like yourself is that you are so steeped in ignorance that it will take a miracle to get you out of your stupor, sheeple like you thoroughly deserve what is coming, thanks to the likes of Goodluck Jonathan and other african traitors the future is looking very bleak for the african continent, have fun and i hope you enjoy your coming enslavement.

stmarc32:
@ cap28 the only thing i'd disagree with u on here is the thought of negotiating with these western corporations, They are only interested in looting and exploiting whatever is left of africa.

the only reason i raised the issue of negotiation was for the purpose of giving these foreign investors the benefit of the doubt, but i know that our govts simply havent even got the guts to negotiate with these foreigners, they are too cowardly, too dependant and too selfish to care about the implications of their actions. Besides the majority of them rely on western military aid to keep themselves in power, if i am a western nation and i provide you with military aid worth $1 billion dollars a year, who are you to dictate to me the terms of a land purchse in your country? It is too late, we are firmly in their grasp and all we the people can do is resort to collective action to oust the corrupt govts we have in power - this is what the people of madagascar did when their govt sold 50% of their arable land to south korean corporation Daewoo.

she must have caught sight of his will and found out she wasnt in it, you've got to feel sorry for that delusional old fool

^^^^^



bros i tire for some people on this site honestly

I know of a case of a young lady who was so obsessed with gettnig married that she married a man who she knew very little about, today she has four children and the man has left because he only entered into the marriage for ulterior reasons, the lady is struggling to bring up four children by herself, the man rarely sees his children - the lady almost had her children taken away from her by social services because of how difficult it is to bring them up on her own, now is this lady better off having put herself through marriage to a man who was not prepared to stick around long enough or should she simply console herself and say - at least i have kids and i wont end up alone?

People need to understand that marriage is a life long comittment, many men and women jump into marrying people they dont know, the shock comes when the persons true colours start to reveal themselves and by that time the kids have come along, i dont think it is fair to bring childdren into the world where they have to suffer, there are so many things this lady can not do for her kids because she doesnt earn enough money, in addition the "husband" does not support her or them financially, but if anyone would have told her that this is how things would turn out she would not have beleived it.

Instead of channelling her energy into building up a career she spent her entire time trying to get married and in the end out of desperation married a man she knew nothing about. Now that she has the kids the man is gone, this is a cautionary tale which many ladies (and men, because men get disappointed too) should take on board before jumping into a nightmare you did not bargain for.

in my opinion marriage is not for everyone - marriage is not the fairy tale fantasy that nollywood and hollywood continue to bamboozle gullible people with, marriage is about compromise, tolerance and perserverance - most people have been brainwashed into thinking that you meet y our soul mate and then live happily ever after - it rarely ever happens that way, unless you have the skills to deal with the ups and downs you will simply be setting yourself up for disappointment, i therefore say that if you cant find the right person its best to focus on other posjitive things, i noticed someone said that getting married and having a family guarantees that you will never end up alone - not necessarily - there are many people who get married and have children who still end up alone for one reason or the other, there are no guarantees in life.

Im in total agreement with the poster - marriage and child rearing is not for everyone, there are many dysfunctional individuals roaming the streets who were brought up in terrible homes where they were unloved and even abused, people need to start thinking a lot more deeply about marriage and child rearing, also if you are unable to find the right person to spend the rest of your life with why force  yourself on someone who doesnt want you? you just create more problems for yourself, thanks poster your view is one which many nigerians who see marriage as a do or die affair need to take on board, cheers.

great, now all she needs now is a brain transplant.

morpheus24:
^^^^
I have already pointed this out in previous posts on this thread. You just don't get it do you.

Morpheus says " You've made the choice. Now you have to understand it"

Where did  you point this out in previous threads?

What dont i get?

You like to pretend as if you know anything about this issue, your stance is predicated on repeating capitalist mantras and right wing economic theory that you dont fully understand, do you not understand that unlike the hedge funds, multinational corporations and ivy league universities who stand to reap huge returns on their investments africans stand to gain absolutely nothing from these type of one sided deals.

If you were aware that negotiation is the key to securing a fair deal for african nations why ask this:

morpheus24:
The loops hole in your solution are related to the repeated problem of the human condition. Do you expect the foreigners to exchange that valuable knowledge  for salaries or one time lump sum payments. Why would they do that? Whats the gain?Its not like you are going to figure out how to maxmize that output on the land any short time soon.

you would do so much better if you learnt to accept that you dont know what the hell you are talking about.

^^^
just thought id add this - technological transfer from western nations to africa is possilbe if properly negotiated - america transfers advanced technology to china under trade agreements very favourable to china - the chinese make it a condition of many of their trade agreements that the americans transfer advanced technology to them in exchange for american access to chinese markets - so it can be done IF THE HOST NATION HAS THE WILL TO DO SO - so far we are yet to see that happen in most african nations.

morpheus24:
The french and American revolutions exemplify exactly what I am referencing to. The motives of both revolutions was a bitter battle between power(aristocracy) and the lesser man. For all its supposed progress it is strange how these cycles seem to repeat themselves even now within these same nations. The same battle being fought and revolutions reigniting themselves leaving the real factors that ahve advanced these societies at bay.  I leave you to ponder on what those are.

interesting  - so wise one what would have been your advice to the french and americans  - to remain under the heel of the french and british aristocracy?

The loops hole in your solution are related to the repeated problem of the human condition. Do you expect the foreigners to exchange that valuable knowledge  for salaries or one time lump sum payments. Why would they do that? Whats the gain?Its not like you are going to figure out how to maxmize that output on the land any short time soon.

Right - so the best way to avoid being exploited is to simply hand over the bulk of your most fertile land for a pittance - thanks Einstein - i knew i'd learn something new from you today

Secondly,  government in Africa are so confused runing around with like chickens with their heads cut off that they are unable to allocater resources to programs or agendas that have real future value. They are busy trying to urbanize to keep up with the Jones' and have no real platforms where real expert indigenous experts are called upon to discuss, rally and implement solutions. It takes outside individuals like klaus schwab and  think tank institutions like the World bank and institutions in oakland to raise the alarm.

Excuses excuses, there are many technocrats who have been insiders to the nigerian govt who are far more knowledgeable than you about economics and international trade agreements, you want to tell me that people like Okonjo Iweala (world bank stooge) is "confused and is running around like a headless chicken?" no these people know very well what they are doing they simply LACK THE DESIRE TO DO THE RIGHT THING, by the way the world bank did not RAISE the alarm as they have a vested interest in seeing africa remain dependant on external aid, the alarm was raised by the same NGOs that you have been blindly criticising!!!!(oakland, Grain et al)

After they are removed from office then who will take charge. A fine solution.

Strange. Its not like you are doing anything substantial about the problem either?

PS forgive my grammar I think faster than I type

Oh i get it lets leave the very people who have FAILED nigeria for the past 51 years in office - that sounds like a great solution - perhaps you should slow down on typing so fast and spend more time thinking about what you are about to put down.

^^^

i really dont like getting into debates with you because we do not sing from the same hymn sheet but i will respond to you just this once -

first of all Malcolm X was not a separatist - he was all about acheiving justice and equality - NOT separation, he was cut down prematurely by a govt that simply was not willing to allow a black messiah to arise in the black community and equip its people with knowledge and wisdom.  Malcolm actually revised his views on race when he went to Mecca where he saw white and black muslims praying, eating and socialising together so i dont know how you have come to the conclusion that "he lacked insight into the human condition".
His original revolutionary views were however, very justified and he (along with other african american leaders) played an invaluable role in bringing about change in  white supremacist america, these changes came about in the form of civil rights legislation and affirmative action among many other changes which blacks in america continue to benefit from till today.

Yes, wants, power and needs can be insatiable but thats why we have checks and balances in society to prevent or at least limit them - if not we begin to sink into  anarchy and oppression, this is what so called democratic systems are all about.  Western nations like to pride themselves on how "democratic" they are therefore it is the duty of people who are affected by their actions to hold them accountable to those tenets that they claim to uphold.

Revolution is  not a short term method of correcting oppression and tyranny as was demonstrated in the case of the french revolution - another example is the  american war of independence which was a revolutionary war fought by british settlers in order to throw  off the shackles of british monarchical tyranny - i think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who would agree that the american settlers were better off living under the tyranny of british colonial rule.

As i mentioned to you earlier - inviting foreign investors into your country and selling them huge tracts of land at rock bottom prices does absolutely nothign to improve the well being of the host country or the indigenous people, if anything it worsens the economic conditions of the already impoverished farmers who are forced off their land without compensation and forced to work on land they previously owned  for their new foreign masters on starvation wages.

As i said earlier the best way to encourage agricultural investment is for africfan govts to invest in their own farmers - plough money into the locals, invite in foreigners to teach locals how to practice mechanised farming - to me that makes much more sense than just selling off the bulk of your most fertile land to foreigners.

As has been pointed out by people who are more knowledgeable on this issue,there is no evidence so far that the host nation has benefitted from these kind of projects, be it in terms of technological transfer, job opportunities or even food supply so why are you still holding on to this beleif that these land sales are going to yield all the supposed goodies promised by these investors?

The reason that you dont see the results of NGO's like Grain is because they are small charities, largely ignored by african govts and who do not have access to the huge budgets available to these huge multinationals and agribusinesses, furthermore 9 times out of 10 their efforts to effect changes in govt policy are simply blocked or ignored by corrupt african rulers who prefer to line their pockets with quick and easy money and that is the way it will stay until these types of corrupt rulers are removed from office.

the multinational corporations are not interested in trransferring their technology to african farmers neither are they interested in enablign africans to become self sufficient what they want is for africans to be perpetually  dependant on them for food supply and that is what is unfolding before our very eyes, so sit back and enjoy the ride.

The position is made even clearer here:

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SmtqLc7NsU[/flash]

The executive director of the Oakland Institute gives a clearer picture of what these foreign investors are really doing:


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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntkG_TbRypA&feature/related[/flash]

The Ghanaian commentator made a very valid point - he said that  democracy is non existent in africa, as aresult there is no accounatability, no transparency and western multinationals are free to operate with impunity.  This is not the first time our leaders have opened up the country for foreigners to come in and short change us and it definitely wont be the last.

There is no african leader (with the exception of Gadaffi) that is capable of negotiating any land sale that would benefit the indigenous people and there is no point pretending as if that is not the case.  Here in Nigeria Shell, Chevron and other IOCs have caused  massive environmental devastation, failed to provide infrastructure for local commmunities or compensation for displaced fishermen and even colluded with the nigerian govt to have protesters and community leaders imprisoned, tortured and even killed (Ken Saro Wiwa) therefore for any person to think that the nigerian govt  will suddenly make a u turn and start becoming accountable to their own people, i say to that person - you are living in cloud cuckoo land - keep dreaming!!!

The people of Madagascar who are smarter than the average africans understood the score and took matters into their own hands by overthrowing a corrupt puppet who decided to sell off 50% of their arable land to a south korean corporation - that is the way it should be done - you dont just sit around talking crap hoping that these foreigners and their collaborators  who have done nothing but cheat you for centuries will suddenly turn over a new leaf.

You can spout all the economic theories in this world but if you are incapable of making basic common sense decisions then you just simply look like a fool - this is why i say our people are onlly good at regurgitating academic theories but are totally clueless about making common sense and practical decisions - you dont have to be an economist to understand that it is not a good idea to give out huge tracts of arable land to foreigners and place yourself ina  totally vulnerable and dependant position in respect of food supply.

It is nothign short of insanity to sell off this very land to the same people who have done nothing but use, abuse, cheat and exploit you - when are our people going to awake from their comatose state?

I dont normally listen to Al Jazeera but here is another v interesting debate about the ongoing land grab in africa, debated from various perspectives:

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnoxL_NWuRA[/flash]


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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqmEb8SvNe4&feature/relmfu[/flash]