₦airaland Forum

raumdeuter:
I dont need to quote you anywhere on Joe Cole, provide the stats that showed Joe Coles productivity under Mourinho and post Mourinho

That pales in comparison to what Deco did in Barcelona

Is this Pogbas best season ever? Are you sure I cant point to some seasons in Juve where he has done better

It doesn't need to be pogbas best season for you to confirm he is doing well. Currently he is the best player in the team, is that not flourishing?

Joe Coles best seasons were in 04/05 And 05/06 seasons when Jose was there, immediately Jose left Joe Coles career went downhill and he never recovered.

Decos best seasons were in 01/02 and 02/03 seasons statistically but his best performance came in 2004 when he and Derlie especially were umplayable. All those seasons jose was his manager, he did well at Barca but never replicated his Porto days form.
Sneidjer was another player that play his best game with Jose and till now many including me are still wondering why FIFA denied him balonn dor that year.

BlueAngel444:
But so far do you believe Lukaku was worth spending [/b]100m[/b] for, would any other available striker at the time done better?

Where did you pull out that figure from? Same thing is usually said for martial for whom monaco was paid 35.8m and will be paid 58m only if the Frenchman wins ballon dor but people keep stating the later figure.

Lukaku has done well so far, 13 goals in 22 games is a return for any striker. Though he needs to improve some areas of his game

BlueAngel444:
But so far do you believe Lukaku was worth spending [/b]100m[/b] for, would any other available striker at the time done better?

Where did you pull out that figure from? Same thing is usually said for martial for whom monaco was paid 35.8m and will be paid 58m only if the Frenchman wins ballon dor but people keep stating the later figure.

raumdeuter:
How much did Mourinho spend on the team that finished level on points with City?

Mourinho took over a team that finished 7th, 4th and 5th. And regurlaly playing the Europa league, while the team pep took over finished 1st, 2nd and 4th. And are champions league semi-finalist. Yet he spent far more

raumdeuter:
Players are not only bought for first team spots alone, players are also bought to be backups. Cesc and Hleb were bought to be backups. Cesc as a long term Xavi replacement but Xavi didnt wane in powers and Cesc became impatient same thing with Thiago

Oh if Seydou Keita is not a flop, then how is fabregas who played 151 games for Barcelona scored 42 goals and gave 57 assists a flop all in 3 seasons Thats an average of over 50 games per season average of 14 goals and 19 assists per season

Can you prove that Joe Coles best season was under Mourinho Deco was brought to limelight by Mourinho but his best years were in Barca with Rijkaard

It still remains to be seen if this will be Pogbas best season ever

Joe Coles best season was under Jose quote me. Anywhere.
Deco played his best football under Rijkaard What happened to the deadly midfield combination of Maniche, Deco and Costinha which formed the foundation of the Portuguese world cup semi-final finish in 2006.
Pogba is flourishing under Jose now, there is nothing remaining to be seen.

Skimpledawg:
Dayo loves stats...

Let's give him some

This fact is incontrovertible

raumdeuter:
Fabregas and Hleb could not displace maestros like Iniesta and Xavi so they had to sit on the bench

Hazard was blamed for Chelsea CL ouster, Eden is not the kind of player to sacrifice himself for the team," Mourinho fumed post-match. "He is the kind of player that is not so mentally ready to look back to his left-back and to leave his life for him. The perfect team at the top level cannot make these kinds of mistakes."

KDB said he lost his Joy under Mourinho

Ozil was told “You’re such a coward. What do you want? To creep under the beautiful, warm shower? Shampoo your hair


https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/how-mourinhos-peculiar-relationship-playmakers-costing-manchester-united-dearly

Fabregas cannot displace xavi and Iniesta but was chased for over 3 years endlessly culminating into Barca players wrapping him with a Barca kit during world cup celebrations. Hleb was key to Arsenals champions league run in 2006, so why did he chase him and bought him to spectacularly fail. Seydou Keita did not displace xavi and Iniesta but still got his fair share of games, so is not a flop, then why these other 2.
Hazard had his best season with Jose, Ozils time with him are his best years. Joe Cole played the best football of his life with Jose.
Deco was brought to limelight by Jose. Pogba is already fantastic this season Why?

BlueAngel444:
Are you also considering the improvements made by bought coaches as well.

The vast array of improvements financially done in the past four seasons also plays a huge factor.

City have given Pep a better squad, at whatever cost. Bought 2 new Gks, bought 4 or 5 defenders, bought 4 attackers, 1 striker to to a team with atleast 4 quality top players at the time whereas Man U had just De Gea and maybe Martial who along with other previous buys were bought based on future potential.

City bought players 40m, 50m up to 7 wow.

Correct Pep spent almost half a billion euros on a team that reached semi-finals of the champions league

Skimpledawg:
Can the same be said of Hazard that has reduced number of goals and assists plus awards since Mou left him?

Ask him about Sneidjer and Deco. And what happened to ozil

And raumdeuter has not told us how mourinho who is "aversed to playmaking" has names like Joe cole, Hazard, Deco, Sneidjer, Ozil, Fab and currently Pogba are flourishing under him. While Hleb and Fab failed under Pep the attacker.

BlueAngel444:
Here your agreeing to codedguy1 conclusion that it's Mou's fault, for what exactly, Lukaku's inability to play the way Mou wants, hold up plax to meet the team's requirements.

I guess it's Mou's fault for shelling out 100m for a striker and still being unable to play to his established strengths. But then has your view changed to it's Mou's fault (lemme keep reading )

I don't like criticism on Lukaku but against City he was atrocious. And ofcourse people have off days its allowed

BlueAngel444:
Mata was better than Silva till Mou happened, what helped Silva is the team he plays in and the coaches he has had. The last time Mata was in an attacking team was at Chelsea.

There is nothing to look at towards Matic.

There was no point in Matas career that he was adjudged to be beta than silva, yes chelsea an attacking team that parked the bus against benfica Barca and bayern enroute winning the champions league.
Matic has been fantastic in United this season unless you chose to ignore it, because you have to put up with yoko

BlueAngel444:
Infact Argghhh, are you serious, which fact or you meant to type fart .

And there you go again with your most where? when? who? now name atleast 50% of NL known chelsea fans atleast quote four times they criticize Conte each.

YOU CAN'T, CAN YOU not only Infact, it's Infart

Most of your fans blame conte for your woes this season its not a new thing

Skimpledawg:
Carry on baba, I dey enjoy your analysis with Unku Dayo, only that he never gives up

Na so bro

SIRcumalot:
if doesn't at least win like the UCL or the league with us this season Neymar won't hire him.
plus this defensive football stuff don dey follow am around like bad odour for sometime,he no fit shake am again.
make he just own am at this point.

UCL is too much of a target for him, but he won the Europa at Porto the next year he won the champions league.

raumdeuter:
WHile he has done with underdogs like Porto and Inter, He has failed to do with dominant traditional names like Madrid and Chelsea who have both gone to win after Mourinho left

Joining Juve and Inter is a testament to his quality for a top club to desire him

*Chelsea is not a traditional team.
Doesnt it mean he has built the foundation for other managers to reap?

Skimpledawg:
Capitalcee my Gee


You argue well brother. Much love from a rival fan.


But don't always run during the nights of parry na

I have to run oo considering what we did on your thread last Saturday. Lol. But honestly if we lose e no too de pain me sha

BlueAngel444:
Lemme understand something, you are in support of Mou while raumdeuter is against. That is to say to you believe Man U's first team lacks quality while raum believes they do but feels it's Mou's fault because of his style.

I got it, right!

I am not supporting Jose.
Our debate is between Pep and Jose who met a better squad.

SIRcumalot:
Jose stock as an elite coach just dey plummet.
i wonder where all this links to PSG dey come from ?
he has to make waves with us first.

If his stock fails its better we offload him

raumdeuter:
That is an achievement on its own, If he wasnt good those top teams wont but him actually 2 top teams bought him

Mourinho won the league Just like Schuster Capello and Zidane. Winning the CL is something special.

That he did it with Porto and inter is more special

Joining juve and inter is an achievement for a world cup winner

raumdeuter:
His use of playmakers is to make them work hard and harry attackers. He blamed Hazard for not marking, preffered Mata over Oscar because he can mark, Mikitaryan KdB, Kaka

Hazard won his only EPL player of the year under mourinho. Deco, Sneidjer, Pogba, Fabregas and Ozil are others who flourished under him. Didnt Fabregas fail under Pep, how about Hleb who was imperious at Arsenal didnt he fail under Pep? What is the reason for their failure under attacking Pep

eph12:
So can you tell elampiro to lay off Lukaku?

He can suit himself.

codedguy1:
I can never blame a player who shoots on goal and in this case tested the keeper, meaning it was on target.

even the one against CSKA he was under pressure and can be forgiven.

my grouse with Lukaku is that he can't hold the ball to bring other players into the game which is as a result of the defensive style Mourinho deploys, a style that will make our striker to start learn how to be a midfielder.

that's why mou is the problem.

You are very spot on here

BlueAngel444:
Do you think Silva would have done better in ManU?

Di Maria tried to drag a team that refused to move, and he was termed flop so he left and joined a better team.

Do Maria did very well at real for Mourinho. Silva is far far better than Mata. He will definitely do well, a good player is a good player. Look at Matic

SIRcumalot:
i still believe that.
we also need ibra to start going too. he looked really bad against city.
ukaku can get back to starting proper for our weekend game. that way nobody go say his under any kind punishment.

True,
So what it means is he wasn't even brought in for teams like city.

BlueAngel444:
Really!? Lemme give you just 1 name of a playmaker OZIL .

Mou's famous formatioin is 4-2-3-1, using 3 AM, which includes a number 10.

Lemme even mention Fabregas, so how does Mou have an aversion for playmakers

You no know Dayo? Joe Cole nko, Deco nko, Sneidjer nko, what is Pogba doing now,

raumdeuter:
Rashford is used as a wing forward f=just like Sterling and in his only full season he already had 11 goals
Grosso was bought by Inter Milan and later Juventus. Rojo did not flop before Mourinho he was always injured

Zidane and even Ancelotti has done more for Madrid than Mourinho ever did. These are the only 2 coaches in Madrid who have spent a full season after Mourinho

Bought by inter and jive is not an achievement what did he do there.
Zidane yes, Ancelloti won the champions league, mourinho won the league they are relative

BlueAngel444:
Pls be honest with your personal opinions

I have never stated this about Conte or any manager in real terms. I understand and respect the opponents strengths, that is why I don't go ballistic when we lose.
Infact its most of your fans that are the greatest culprits in labelling Conte as clueless.

codedguy1:
OK no problem.

But improvement again is relative. Like I pointed out before, if a team finishes 2nd on the log with 80points in a season and then finishes 2nd again in the next season. Has that team improved or not?

Points are usually compared with the same period of a previous season and this is in the hope that if after 16 games a team has 30points and now has 40points the next season after 16games. it can be seen as an improvement with the hope that if the momentum is sustained they could do better by the end of the season.

but again for if you improve your points haul from previous season an still end up not winning the then.... For a big club like united it means nothing oo.

Bro, Only 1 team will win the league. United improved both in point haul and position so far. It's not their fault that city dropped only 2 points after 16 games check the other leagues which team have the kind of point total that city has. In those Fergie hay days he used to drop many points earlier but later recover, but with this kind of city's form which no one envisaged before the season started one can't help it. In some leagues we will be firmly in control of the title race.
Do not forget that this team was languishing in Europa last season, No one is happy that we are now behind by 11 points or we are playing bad football, let's just find succor in the fact that the team improved from last season, and pray for the best.
Jose is not the best manager with the best tactics, but we all knew this before he came, let him redeem us first from the doldrums like he did Madrid then we can let him go and find a more sexy football manager. Just my opinion though

raumdeuter:
James Rodriguez was bought by Madrid meaning there was something good about him, same way Rojo was bought by Man Utd

Sterlings highest return in any season is 11 goals. This season will be the first time he will go beyond 11 goals

11 is not a poor return for a winger. Rashford a striker have not exceeded that tally a season.
I thought you said Charisteas and Grosso were off examples.
He was bought by Madrid but flopped same way we all thought Rojo flopped before Jose turned him around.

If wining the World cup or playing in the final is any yardstick. Why didn't Pep win UCL at Bayern, he hard.
Alonso, Kroos, Bastian, Gotze, baoteng, Meier all world cup winners while Ribery and Robbem are world cup finalists

raumdeuter:
Madrid won the league in 07/08 and Mourinho won it in 11/12 4yrs gap

Zidane actually won after a 5yr from 11/12 to 16/17 and won 2 CL to boot

It doesn't matter the fact is that he won it after a long time against a very unimaginable team and broke the UCL jinx

raumdeuter:
James Rodriguez is a good player that was why Madrid spent huge money on him, he is still a top player in COlombia and why he is currently at Bayern a top club

Angelos Charisteas played for Werder Bremen and was part of their German double winning team of 2004

Fabio Grosso was bought by Inter Milan and later Juventus. You examples are off,

Sterling was tagged a flop and regarded as a big money . Many analyst called him a flop even without England performance. On record this is Sterlings best season in his career and we are just in December. Sterling at best was scoring 11 per season that was what Rashford scored in his only full season.

Mata was PFA team of the year just like before Mourinho, Mata was top assister of the year just like Silva

For club
2011/2012 Mata 12 goals 20 assists in all comps, Silva 8 goals 21 assists in all comps for City
2012/13 Mata 19 goals 35 assists Silva 5 goals 13 assists

That was Matas productivity before Mourinho came into his life, We can say if Mourinho had gone to coach Silva at that time, probably Silva wont be a footballer anymore

Silva is better than Mata but in an optimally attacking formation, there will be very little difference in their outputs

James Rodriguez is a flop success stories dont go in loan, Grosso did not do anything of note in his career apart from that world cup, the season you are talking about Charisteas made just 11 app scoring 2 goals the entire season, Ailton his team mate scored 28. he left for Ajax after his Euro 2004 heroics and scored 12 league goals in 3 years, 13 in all competitions, a league Depay dominated. The examples were spot on.

Sterling was never regarded as a flop, ofcourse you will say pogba was called a flop before few unintelligent troll were quick to judge him. Sterling have played just 5 seasons in top flight. The first he took the league by storm with Suarez, the second he continued where he stoped hence the 50m outlay on him. The third he didn't perform do to a new club, and still young, this season and last season, Sterling has been top class