₦airaland Forum

raumdeuter:
WHile he has done with underdogs like Porto and Inter, He has failed to do with dominant traditional names like Madrid and Chelsea who have both gone to win after Mourinho left

Joining Juve and Inter is a testament to his quality for a top club to desire him

*Chelsea is not a traditional team.
Doesnt it mean he has built the foundation for other managers to reap?

Skimpledawg:
Capitalcee my Gee


You argue well brother. Much love from a rival fan.


But don't always run during the nights of parry na

I have to run oo considering what we did on your thread last Saturday. Lol. But honestly if we lose e no too de pain me sha

BlueAngel444:
Lemme understand something, you are in support of Mou while raumdeuter is against. That is to say to you believe Man U's first team lacks quality while raum believes they do but feels it's Mou's fault because of his style.

I got it, right!

I am not supporting Jose.
Our debate is between Pep and Jose who met a better squad.

SIRcumalot:
Jose stock as an elite coach just dey plummet.
i wonder where all this links to PSG dey come from ?
he has to make waves with us first.

If his stock fails its better we offload him

raumdeuter:
That is an achievement on its own, If he wasnt good those top teams wont but him actually 2 top teams bought him

Mourinho won the league Just like Schuster Capello and Zidane. Winning the CL is something special.

That he did it with Porto and inter is more special

Joining juve and inter is an achievement for a world cup winner

raumdeuter:
His use of playmakers is to make them work hard and harry attackers. He blamed Hazard for not marking, preffered Mata over Oscar because he can mark, Mikitaryan KdB, Kaka

Hazard won his only EPL player of the year under mourinho. Deco, Sneidjer, Pogba, Fabregas and Ozil are others who flourished under him. Didnt Fabregas fail under Pep, how about Hleb who was imperious at Arsenal didnt he fail under Pep? What is the reason for their failure under attacking Pep

eph12:
So can you tell elampiro to lay off Lukaku?

He can suit himself.

codedguy1:
I can never blame a player who shoots on goal and in this case tested the keeper, meaning it was on target.

even the one against CSKA he was under pressure and can be forgiven.

my grouse with Lukaku is that he can't hold the ball to bring other players into the game which is as a result of the defensive style Mourinho deploys, a style that will make our striker to start learn how to be a midfielder.

that's why mou is the problem.

You are very spot on here

BlueAngel444:
Do you think Silva would have done better in ManU?

Di Maria tried to drag a team that refused to move, and he was termed flop so he left and joined a better team.

Do Maria did very well at real for Mourinho. Silva is far far better than Mata. He will definitely do well, a good player is a good player. Look at Matic

SIRcumalot:
i still believe that.
we also need ibra to start going too. he looked really bad against city.
ukaku can get back to starting proper for our weekend game. that way nobody go say his under any kind punishment.

True,
So what it means is he wasn't even brought in for teams like city.

BlueAngel444:
Really!? Lemme give you just 1 name of a playmaker OZIL .

Mou's famous formatioin is 4-2-3-1, using 3 AM, which includes a number 10.

Lemme even mention Fabregas, so how does Mou have an aversion for playmakers

You no know Dayo? Joe Cole nko, Deco nko, Sneidjer nko, what is Pogba doing now,

raumdeuter:
Rashford is used as a wing forward f=just like Sterling and in his only full season he already had 11 goals
Grosso was bought by Inter Milan and later Juventus. Rojo did not flop before Mourinho he was always injured

Zidane and even Ancelotti has done more for Madrid than Mourinho ever did. These are the only 2 coaches in Madrid who have spent a full season after Mourinho

Bought by inter and jive is not an achievement what did he do there.
Zidane yes, Ancelloti won the champions league, mourinho won the league they are relative

BlueAngel444:
Pls be honest with your personal opinions

I have never stated this about Conte or any manager in real terms. I understand and respect the opponents strengths, that is why I don't go ballistic when we lose.
Infact its most of your fans that are the greatest culprits in labelling Conte as clueless.

codedguy1:
OK no problem.

But improvement again is relative. Like I pointed out before, if a team finishes 2nd on the log with 80points in a season and then finishes 2nd again in the next season. Has that team improved or not?

Points are usually compared with the same period of a previous season and this is in the hope that if after 16 games a team has 30points and now has 40points the next season after 16games. it can be seen as an improvement with the hope that if the momentum is sustained they could do better by the end of the season.

but again for if you improve your points haul from previous season an still end up not winning the then.... For a big club like united it means nothing oo.

Bro, Only 1 team will win the league. United improved both in point haul and position so far. It's not their fault that city dropped only 2 points after 16 games check the other leagues which team have the kind of point total that city has. In those Fergie hay days he used to drop many points earlier but later recover, but with this kind of city's form which no one envisaged before the season started one can't help it. In some leagues we will be firmly in control of the title race.
Do not forget that this team was languishing in Europa last season, No one is happy that we are now behind by 11 points or we are playing bad football, let's just find succor in the fact that the team improved from last season, and pray for the best.
Jose is not the best manager with the best tactics, but we all knew this before he came, let him redeem us first from the doldrums like he did Madrid then we can let him go and find a more sexy football manager. Just my opinion though

raumdeuter:
James Rodriguez was bought by Madrid meaning there was something good about him, same way Rojo was bought by Man Utd

Sterlings highest return in any season is 11 goals. This season will be the first time he will go beyond 11 goals

11 is not a poor return for a winger. Rashford a striker have not exceeded that tally a season.
I thought you said Charisteas and Grosso were off examples.
He was bought by Madrid but flopped same way we all thought Rojo flopped before Jose turned him around.

If wining the World cup or playing in the final is any yardstick. Why didn't Pep win UCL at Bayern, he hard.
Alonso, Kroos, Bastian, Gotze, baoteng, Meier all world cup winners while Ribery and Robbem are world cup finalists

raumdeuter:
Madrid won the league in 07/08 and Mourinho won it in 11/12 4yrs gap

Zidane actually won after a 5yr from 11/12 to 16/17 and won 2 CL to boot

It doesn't matter the fact is that he won it after a long time against a very unimaginable team and broke the UCL jinx

raumdeuter:
James Rodriguez is a good player that was why Madrid spent huge money on him, he is still a top player in COlombia and why he is currently at Bayern a top club

Angelos Charisteas played for Werder Bremen and was part of their German double winning team of 2004

Fabio Grosso was bought by Inter Milan and later Juventus. You examples are off,

Sterling was tagged a flop and regarded as a big money . Many analyst called him a flop even without England performance. On record this is Sterlings best season in his career and we are just in December. Sterling at best was scoring 11 per season that was what Rashford scored in his only full season.

Mata was PFA team of the year just like before Mourinho, Mata was top assister of the year just like Silva

For club
2011/2012 Mata 12 goals 20 assists in all comps, Silva 8 goals 21 assists in all comps for City
2012/13 Mata 19 goals 35 assists Silva 5 goals 13 assists

That was Matas productivity before Mourinho came into his life, We can say if Mourinho had gone to coach Silva at that time, probably Silva wont be a footballer anymore

Silva is better than Mata but in an optimally attacking formation, there will be very little difference in their outputs

James Rodriguez is a flop success stories dont go in loan, Grosso did not do anything of note in his career apart from that world cup, the season you are talking about Charisteas made just 11 app scoring 2 goals the entire season, Ailton his team mate scored 28. he left for Ajax after his Euro 2004 heroics and scored 12 league goals in 3 years, 13 in all competitions, a league Depay dominated. The examples were spot on.

Sterling was never regarded as a flop, ofcourse you will say pogba was called a flop before few unintelligent troll were quick to judge him. Sterling have played just 5 seasons in top flight. The first he took the league by storm with Suarez, the second he continued where he stoped hence the 50m outlay on him. The third he didn't perform do to a new club, and still young, this season and last season, Sterling has been top class

raumdeuter:
The empirical evidence we have is that Madrid won 3 CL after Mourinho playing better football and won none never played a single final with Mourinho

And that he won the league after 5 years of exile against one of the best teams in football history, broke the 7 year champions league jinx. Did not suggest anything.

codedguy1:
Guy, calm down. I did not deliver any judgement.

I am only dissatisfied with the tactics our manager is deploying and have said severally that that approach most likely will not make us win the league.

The tactic/style is even making players look like pub players because they find themselves in situations and positions that they are not exactly familiar with.

Because of this defensive approach, a player that should be in the box where he would have better chance of scoring always finds himself at the half way line and compound issues he cant hold up play - Lukaku

Attack minded players are first given defensive duties before their primary strength of play which is to attack. Rashford & martial.


The players' main objective is to not lose instead of scoring and winning.

Then he should be sacked if the club's ideology is not in tandem with his, Nobody is hailing his tactics. The genesis of the whole point is whether the team have improved from last season or not.
He said city have improved which is evident by their position NOW. Then i pointed out that it's same for united also based on their position NOW.
Don't make it sound as if anybody is trying to chastise anyone.

elampiro:
Ibrahimovic is old, and was brought to fill a gap in the transition.

If Lukaku cannot take the mantle of leading the line for the future Manchester United, let us get Aubameyang. We can still get Costa who might service us for two years.

These are the solutions we should be discussing, not analysing like the Neville brothers who went to Valencia and Failed woefully

raumdeuter:
I visit several Madrid boards including managingmadrid and others and the consensus among most fans was how low Mournho took them and the type of un-Madrid-like football he brought plus the thuggery and drama

Most of them never want to see him manage Madrid again. They will rather look back to Ancelottis reign fondly and even hang on to Zidane than bring back the days of ugly football and fight

There is no empirical evidence to this. And the point is that they have failed seven times to progress beyong r 16 till he came. Not as if he spend more than others.
He played ugly football but still holds the record for the highest goals scored in a season in laliga. Hmmn

raumdeuter:
These are links calling Sterling a big flop https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/593151/Liverpool-Chelsea-Raheem-Sterling-Manchester-City-Shaun-Wright-Phillips
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/1363356/england-flop-sterling-steps-off-plane-after-humiliating-defeat-and-insults-fans-by-showing-off-blinging-house/

Mata in Chelsea before Mourinho was seen as equal or at worst close to Silva. It was Mourinhos aversion for plamakers that marked the end of Matas career. Give Silva to Mourinho and you will see him detailed to mark Fellaini

Rojo was named in the 2014 world cup All star team. That has to count for something

Same with James Rodriguez, like I said Rojo was known due to his good performance in his NT.
Angelo Charisteas was in Euro 2004 team ahead of Thierry Henry, Raul, Van Nistelrooy and Zlatan. Why didn't Barca or Madrid buy him. Fabio Grosso of Italy nko, why did he not replace Evra and Ashley Cole in United and Chelsea.

The link you put there, was the fallout of their humiliating defeat against Iceland, Every player that participated in that game were termed flops, nothing to do with club form, Sterling was highlighted due to his open lack of remorse.

Yes Mata was on fire before mourinho but was ignored for Silva, Fab and Iniesta in Spain. Mata is a poor man's Silva. Are we really debating this?

raumdeuter:
Madrid with Mourinho was always timid and bullied by Dortmund Bayern in the CL, After Mourinho, Madrid destroyed both Bayern and Dortmund. Handed Bayern thir worst defeat in Europe. won last year, won this year. That was the same Madrid Mourinho will have us believe can only play defensive

Almost 80% of Madrid fans are glad Mourinho left and wont even have him back, Almost 80% of Barca fans will take Pep back if he becomes available today

You did not tackle my point, you dodged the point as usual, you pointed to what Madrid achieved after Mourinho, I told you what he improved on, but no you diverted to another issue.
How did you know that several Madrid fans want him out, did you take a census?

raumdeuter:
City is missing Jones, they are missing Mendy they are playing Delph who most people had forgotten was a footballer in LB, They even played Mangala in defence

What is Fellainis importance, you seem to be over playing his importance, I could remember some fans here ecstatic that he was going to be sent to Turkey

The same fans that called for DDG to be replaced by Lindegard in 2012 due to few errors(which really cost us the title), berated Pogba last season, and wished Valencia was sold and are also crucifying Lukaku now.

codedguy1:
This season has not ended. it is rather clumsy comparing a full season with one that has not finished with their present positions on the log.

Now you know season have not finished, but you have already delivered your judgement on the team even when the season have not finished.

raumdeuter:
Yes he was a world cup finalist and a good defender. Injury has been the only thing bedeviling his career

It's not true dayo, Rojo was considered a bad signing by LVG till Jose came.

raumdeuter:
Kompany has been useless for very long, for the past 4 seasons he has been injured and as useless as just any sick note
Sterling came of age because of Guardiola, If Mourinho had done the work Pep did on Sterling, Rashford probably will even be better
Mata was PFA team member in 13 and EPL top assister, Silva was PFA team of 12 and top assister. If Mata was used right he can do almost as much as Silva, remember Mata in Chelsea how creative he was

Rojo was a world cup finalist and quite good, At that time he could be compared to how Otamendi was.

The reason he played left back in Argentina and otamendi centre back, Otamendi was rated one of the best defenders in Europe before he entered city and was bought for 35million a record for a defender into EPL. Rojo was a left back who is not that popular, he was known do to his NT invovement, he only made the Argentine team because Argentina did not have good defenders, Like Demichelis, Garay and Fernandez of Swansea, only otamendi was their key defender.

Sterling already led Liverpool's title charge with Suarez at Liverpool, Appeared in the World cup as a starter and have played champions league for 2 years before pep came, this is his 4th champions league season. Rashford only graduated from the under 18, 6 months before mourinho arrived.
Do you really want to argue that Mata is at the same grade with Silva? Hmmn dayo nawao

You compared Kompany with Carrick who are 31 and 36 respectively.

eph12:
So what do we expect next season? Will City be adjudged to be too big for the league while United can finally move to the first position?

I don't know what will happen next season, let the team keep improving, if the board feel mourinho is not satisfying the club's objective he should be sacked. But saying the team did not improve is unfair. Chelsea was conquering everybody last season And conte was the God, this season he is clueless according to the same fans. Next season, may a few injuries and suspensions to city, coinciding with few poor referring decisions against them, the narrative might change.

If you ask me, I think Jose should stay on, he will definitely win something big.

raumdeuter:
fellaini is now important, Just like Gundogan who has been out for several months, What of Mendy

Felliani importance to united is not the the same with gundogan.
You can't deny that the injuries to pogba esp and to some extent Felliani cost united points.
If KDB did not play at Stamford bridge, and Hazard was 100%. I wonder if City would have cone out with all 3 points. These are fine margins

eph12:
They were both present last season when City played us off the pitch. City has improved tremendously and I'm wondering what difference Fellaini will make in the middle of the pitch. His presence will only be noticed in front of our goal post as a defender. What good will that do us?

City finished 3rd last season and are now 1st.
United finished 6th last season they are now 2nd. It will be unfair to suggest that city improved while United did not.

raumdeuter:
This is hilarious, In Spain the referees were against Madrid, Also in the Champions league were the refs against him or why did Madrid start winning the CL after Mourinho left? Or how do you explain Madrid winning 3 CL in 4 yrs after Mourinho left

Mourinho had Mata who was one of the great playmakers in the league before Mourinho chased him, if Mourinho had SIlva, he will tell him to be marking the Right back or bench him for Fellaini

Add Rojo world cup finalist, Blind world cup 3rd placed winner, Kompany add Carrick

Yes Rojo world cup finalist, just like. Lucas bigla, Ezekiel garay and Demichelis abeg forget all these your turn turn

raumdeuter:
This is hilarious, In Spain the referees were against Madrid, Also in the Champions league were the refs against him or why did Madrid start winning the CL after Mourinho left? Or how do you explain Madrid winning 3 CL in 4 yrs after Mourinho left

Mourinho had Mata who was one of the great playmakers in the league before Mourinho chased him, if Mourinho had SIlva, he will tell him to be marking the Right back or bench him for Fellaini

Add Rojo world cup finalist, Blind world cup 3rd placed winner, Kompany add Carrick

You forgot to add that Madrid have been constantly being eliminated in round of 16 for 7years before mourinho arrive. He took them to 3 semi-finals. Winning the league in his second season against one of the best footballing team ever witnessed. Selective judgement