₦airaland Forum

I am a Christian but if Christian’s are turning politics into a religious affairs why shouldn’t Muslims?

Let every religion vote his own and see who wins? Shebi we Christians want to play the religion card?

Agbegbaorogboye:
Since you are talking bottom line. Has Atiku won any election since then?
There you have it. Spoilers don't win. That's my initial point and it remains. Fighting for relevance is not same as being a spoiler.
In politics, you can negotiate to stay relevant. Not everything is fight. Let me tell you three clear example were Atiku has played spoiler that he's still battling with today.
In 2007, he played spoiler against OBJ. In 2011 and 2014, he played spoiler against GEJ. Both incidents still hang on his neck.
A better move for Wike would have been to decamp to another party, or at the very least, get some strong concessions from PDP.
As you rightly said, he and his group want to retain control of the party with an eye for 2027 and they don't mind weakening it now to achieve that.
But how exactly will a weak PDP be useful to them against a sitting president (especially if it's APC) in 2027. Does Wike have the political strength to resurrect PDP and make it a formidable force in 2027? How will he convince the core North, that bringing down their son was the right thing?
So you see, being a spoiler is a different thing from being relevant or being a winner.
The fact is, even now, they are not relevant in PDP. The leverage they have is the election season approaching.
If not, all this noise won't even move a needle.
So how will they now be relevant post-2023? They don't have the numbers obviously. The money Wike used to employ as a weapon to get people to his side will no longer be there by 2023. So how exactly is he going to be relevant?

First of all I never gave Atiku as an example of being a spoiler, the example I gave was Tinubu.

As for Atiku, he has never been a strategic human being, he has never shown he has the mental capacity for strategic thinking. The fact that Obasanjo said he relies on marabouts and money to get ahead is an indication of how he makes decisions. Atiku has always been a loser right from his days at PDM under Yaradua. I would never been as stupid as to give Atiku as an example of strategic power play because the man is incapable of strategic thinking and is a serial loser!!!

Agbegbaorogboye:
I agree.
But my point is, Tinubu wouldn't have retained Lagos if Bode George had done the assignment given to him by OBJ as he was expected regardless of Atiku's helping Tinubu.

Bottom line is he did. Who knows maybe the issues with Bide George were part of how Atiku distracted Lagos PDP, I don’t know the bottom
line (if we can go back to the origin of this discussion) is that, what may look like being a spoiler is the only play and the right play for Wike and may actually turn out to be a strategic move or the emergence of a new order where you catapult yourself to the top of the food chain. Like they say you need to break eggs to make an omelette. Sometimes you dont even know the outcome, sometimes you just know that if you don’t present a show of force and show the world you are not a walkover, you are finished. Sometimes you take a stand and see where the chips fall because like I said to take a stand like he has and cave in will he his end politically. It’s like the mafia, once a move is made on you, justified or not, you have to make a counter-move, you either die or you emerge stronger. There is no halfway, any peace move is only temporary while one side restratigizes on how to eliminate the other!

so yes a Wike who is leaving office no matter what he may say about peace talks still open, has no other move but to be a spoiler and crush those forces in PDP trying to make him permanently irrelevant, even if it means sacrificing a PDP presidency. To not do so as an outgoing governor is to make himself permanently irrelevant. The other side also can’t afford to cave in to Wike for the same reason.

It’s a kind of similar thing that happened with Amosun in Abeokuta, if you are challenged from within, you either win or you become irrelevant. Now he can’t even get a senate seat and is resorting to playing the comedian and boy boy at the primaries to curry favour and relevance with Tinubu. So if you must lose you go down fighting, all guns blazing.

Agbegbaorogboye:
Where's the fact in that your post. I already pointed you to how Bode George mismanaged PDP in Lagos. Go and find out more about it. Let me give you more. In Oyo, OBJ relied on Pa Adedibu to form an alliance to oust Adesina. Ogun was OBJ's home state. Ondo and Osun were won through fielding ex-military officers.
So all these talk of Atiku is just speculation. Atiku can say whatever he likes. I was not a kid in 2003 so I can boldly tell you Atiku did not feature prominently as a factor in SW politics then. OBJ gave series of interviews in Yoruba language at so many local radio and TV stations then which further connected him with the electorate. If Atiku did anything, it might have been to snitch on Lagos PDP to Tinubu which weakened them. But to claim he won the remaining five states for PDP is a big fat lie!!
I'm not a kid in SW politics that's why I'm giving you facts.

You are straying away From the issues. Some of what you say is true but the origin of this debate is Tinubu, Atiku and Lagos. Tinubu retained Lagos with the help of Atiku. What Atiku did I don’t know, neither do you but even Atiku has said it, even recently that he regrets helping Tinubu.

Agbegbaorogboye:
Very interesting analysis.

What deal was that? Where can I access the document? Why don't you find out why Bode George was eventually jailed by OBJ's govt? Atiku can claim many things. One thing is PDP cleared SW majorly due to tribal affiliation with OBJ not any Atiku. Quote me anywhere!! OBJ seeing that the North was drifting away from him quickly fell back to the SW for support.
The SW accepted him due to being a son of the soil and a sitting president.
Which governor came thru Tinubu's support in 2003? Care to mention their names? I'm interested in knowing when Fayose sought Tinubu's support to become governor. Was it in 2003 or 2014?
I think you should put the myth of Tinubu calling the shorts in SW politics to the test.
2003. He was the last man standing. By 2007 his AD only retained Lagos. PDP retained all the other states. AD reclaimed Osun through the courts. In 2011, APC won 4 out of the 6 states while the LP who actually leaned towards PDP won in Ondo in 2012.
So I don't know what you mean by Tinubu became godfather of SW politics. Immediately after winning the ticket of APC, he led APC to lose in Osun as well.

You know there is a difference between someone who just wants to argue or someone interested in debating facts. There was a deal to support OBJ as a yoruba son but there was a deal between Atiku and Tinubu to stay away from Lagos. This is well documented. Atiku is on record as saying he regrets he did. You seem to forget that the alliance between Tinubu and Atiku started under yaradua in the early 1990s. As for Osun, now it is clear you are being pedantic. You seem to forget Asiwaju and Aketi were not always on good terms or that Tinubu supported Mimimi to become governor? You clearly don’t know your SW political history very well!!!

Eyesstone:
You me balablu buluba?

Like I said some come to abuse, some come to win elections. It looks like this is a win win for all, those who come to abuse will abuse and those that have election to win will win elections.

I am not a PDP supporter o but remmember when campaigns officially kicked off and Obidients were abusing everybody because they were holding small Ibo crowds up and down? Now they are seeing the real 80%, now they are seeing structure, now they are seeing strategic campaign management.

I keep saying it all of us English speaking people making noise up and down on social media are not up 20% of the population, together APC, PDP andLabour supporters, we no reach. When the 80% enter the arena you will know those of us speaking English are a minority in this country!!!!!

Some people come to elections to abuse, while others come to win elections. Some come for popularity contest at debates, others come to. Win elections. Some come to catch cruise with other peoples money, take photos with foreign ambassadors and prominent people, others come to win elections

They think appearing on arise news, social media abuse, calling people names is what wins elections. Now they are seeing the reality and e dey pain them. You don’t prepare, you don’t have strategy, you insult structure, saying you don’t need, ordinary manifesto you don’t have. When others were preparing manifesto sand strategic meetings you were going to America to do what? Na Americans wan vote for you? Awon ode!!!!

The one thing these videos is showing is Obi is not in this race. Jungle don mature, the 20% have done their noise on social media, now the 80% have taken over!!!

Obidients!!!! Una no get crowd. If it didn’t dey, it didn’t dey!!!

Definitely Obi is not coming 2nd!

Agbegbaorogboye:
OBJ benefited when PDP swept SW.
Lagos wasn't swept cause of the corruption in the party in Lagos which ultimately led to the demise.
What's your point

Average minds see what is visible to all, great minds see what others do not see. It is regrettable that even in a history lesson (I.e past events) you still can’t see the big picture. Considering events already played out, a great mind is not required to see the big picture.

In any good deal there are at least 2 beneficiaries. The deal between Atiku and Tinubu ( this is well documented) was to leave Lagos alone. Obasanjo and Atiku benefitted yes that’s the obvious one even a blind man can see but it destroyed AD in the SW leaving Tinubu as the last man standing with the resources of Lagos. This (elimination of the old guard in the SW) is what made him The Godfather in the SW and the man who called the shots. Almost everybody who became governor in the SW needed Tinubu’s support and endorsement to become governor, including Fayose a PDP man. Without that Tinubu (who was at loggerheads with the old guard) and other SW politicians may probably still be answering to the likes of Adebanjo, Falae, late Olanihun Ajayi etc. They become demystified and today they have become irrelevant.

They k ow the game is over!!

Agbegbaorogboye:
Even Wike will not agree with your post.
He's playing a spoiler's game
Have you ever heard a spoiler become a winner

The question you should ask yourself is Spoiler for who? Who benefits?

I perhaps should remind you of the deal that kept Lagos intact and became the springboard for Tinubu. Who benefitted when PDP swept SW, why wasn’t Lagos swept along?

Tinubu, Atiku’s children campaigning for their father. Somebody will be toying with the future of other people’s children, collecting their money despite having so much of his own, selling them false hope, knowing full well he is just catching cruise and cannot win an election.

He knows he cannot win, Soludo told you Obi knows he can’t win. If he believes he could win trust me his children will be in Nigeria campaigning for him. The proof of the pudding is in the eating! Think about it, your father is campaigning for president of your country, supposedly on the back of youth votes….what will keep you away from potentially the greatest moment for your father and your family’s history for generations to come?

mrksquare:
You should be happy I am even given you attention. Read that disjointed treatise of a garbage and tell me if it made sense. Nairaland is a leveler. That's why a moronic specimen could have outlet to show your poor upbringing.

I hope you are happy now? …now run along. It’s because this World Cup match is so boring I have time to answer you.

mrksquare:
I couldn't grasp the message your epistle was trying to convey. Could you please elucidate your point in a way I can comprehend your message. Thanks.

I didn’t expect you to, you are clearly not educated. I am not responsible for your poor standard of education and I will not reduce myself to your level. I don’t post for you, I post because others also read. If you cannot comprehend that’s too bad…go and get a refund from your teachers. Others comprehend!!!!

Yesterday Atiku’s daughter was at a market campaigning for her father, today Seyi Tinubu is mobilizing for his father. Irrespective of your political views and voting intention, may we all have children like Atiku and Tinubu’s children that will be there for their father in the trenches at potentially his life’s greatest moment than the son of Obi who is nowhere to be seen enjoying life abroad.

Penguin2:
Goodluck Jonathan didn’t win in Katsina and entire Northwest in 2011 but he became the president.

Deal with that.

Good luck won in 2011 because a deal was done with SW and rigging was in full swing.

Allison012:
See them. Want to harvest one million vote that poverty and APC planted abi?

Are they not your youths? I thought you have been telling us all youths are Obidient? And that you don’t need structure like maybe national, state youth leaders? You have been telling us you are organic, it’s organize your own Northern youths. You still dey Abi Kano do give una heart attack?

mrksquare:
He merely gave back to the party that has made him whom he is today. He shouldn't therefore become very entiltled as though the party is his personal estate. Wike was a broke ass suwepe lawyer in 1998 until PDP gave him the platform to be local governemnt chairman. Through PDP he became Minister and governor. Hope you know Wike has never worked under any paid employment before his foray into politics. Neither did he engage in any business venture either. Wike should be grateful to the PDP.

Do you know that same Wike was controlling Cross Rivers state PDP. Ditto Edo state before Obasaki got victory in Court. No governor should be as powerful as Wike had wanted to be in PDP.

One thing o realize about Nigerian psyche in my time on Nairaland is that the majority of Nigerians have a difficult time coming to terms with reality. They prefer to live in delusion and fantasy until such a time as their reality can no longer be avoided.

Let me advise you that “should” and “is”have 2 different definitions in the dictionary. We live in “is”.

Somebody somewhere has been looking at the mass transit situation in Nigeria over the last 30 years and saying this isn’t how it should be. We need good safe air conditioned buses, trains etc. another man realized there is no money we can’t afford western mass transit abut people need to get around and created a business empire out of importing and later manufacturing tricycles. The Man who lived in the “is” is INNOSON and whatever you may say about the menace he created, he has solved a problem and made himself a billionaire. Meanwhile the man talking “should” is still talking should!!!

Tinubu, Obi and Atiku are not the kind of people that should be potentially our next president but they reality is one of them will!!!

Losers talk of “should” winners make the best of what is.

What I like about this rally is that now people know all this talk of youth as if all youths are automatically Obidient has been once and for all put to bed!!!!!

When they say structure, now you understand structure. Part of structure is having youth leaders. Anybody know the youth leader for LP?

They do t have leaders because they are an unruly mob

Never seen such poor football!!!

mrksquare:
A governor shouldn't be more powerful than the National Chairman of his party. In the second repuplic when a party chairman is talking who is a governor to challenge him.

Granted Wike used my state resources to oil the wheel of PDP. But what was the outcome when he had total control? Removal and installation of three National Chairmen. Non of the three chairmen could complete their constitutionally guaranteed tenure.

Wike has proved to be a bull in the Chinese shop by his his action in rebelling against his party. Ayu was whose creation? When things doesn't go the way of Wike the entire building must crumble. The founders of PDP have taken back their party. And there is no amount of threat and ranting can make them bow to Wike's demand.

No problem so long as you know there will be a price to pay.

Why was Wike the one calling the shots? Why was Wike financing your party? Just answer these questions. Who will finance you in continued opposition?

femisplash:
Kano votes alone would swallow up all votes from the SE.

Jungle don dey mature, they think they are the only ones with youths. This was organized by youths!!!!

Tinubu, Atiku’s children campaigning for their fathers. Somebody will be toying with the future of other people’s children, collecting their money despite having so much of his own, selling them false hope, knowing full well he is just catching cruise and cannot win an election.

He knows he cannot win, Soludo told you Obi knows he can’t win. If he believes he could win trust me his children will be in Nigeria campaigning for him. Think about it, your father is campaigning for president of your country, supposedly on the back of youth votes….what will keep you away? When this Obidient mob turn against Obi, una go see movie!!!!

duality:
That's why we told the bigots in the SW that if they want Tinubu to win, they must vote Obi/ LP.

I thank God, they now understand.

You want Tinubu to win, Vote for Obi!

So simple.

You clearly have no brains.

princeemma69:
I don't agree with you. Wike is fighting with all the PDP governors in his South-South Zone. Hated in the South East and not loved in the North. After 2023, Wike's political career will start declining unless Obi wins and appoint him Chief of Staff or SSG which I doubt if Obi will try that gamble with Wike

And this doesn’t sound familiar? Did Tinubu not fight all the governors in the SW? Why do you think Ayo Adebanjo and some others have not forgiven him till today? But he destroyed them and made them politically irrelevant. To the winner the spoils!!!!

Obi is a flash in the pan. When he loses, the eyes of the Obidients will open and they will turn against him. You know how belligerent. And abusive they are. Mark my words, the only reason they are behind him is because they are desperate.

There are 2 types of Obidients 1) disaffected naive youth and 2) Ibos. Both will realize they wasted a generational opportunity by rallying behind the wrong man and will abandon him.

Hope2023:
You sound intelligent I must say, but it's so sad that u are not smart, you can use mathematics to make projections in real life situations but u can never depend on mathematics for real life outcomes in real life situation, mathematics helps you make election permutations but there are more important factors like socio-economic factors and sadly religious and ethnic factors in a 3rd world country like Nigeria...keep it up though, with time, ur intelligence will meet some level of smartness and you will be able to up ur game in political and economic discourse..

The language of measurement in all walks of life is mathematics because it is not emotional. All reasons whether valid or not are captured in the figures. As a bank manager, I only need to see your list of assets and liabilities to know if you are poor or rich or in between and if I can offer you a loan and how much.

A bank manager doesn’t t need or want to know you or your life story because as a bank manager He is not interested in emotion, just the cold hard reality of can you pay me back or not. INEC is not interested in the reason why you vote for A,B or C. All they care is how many votes did each score and who has the most votes. Have you ever seen INEC asking anybody why they voted for X,Y or Z?

Why you are poor, how your father left when you were a child, who embezzled money from you, why your business failed, why you are unemployed, who disappointed you in life, etc etc is your business, all that is story.


You are worried about the reasons, mathematics only cares about what the numbers say….the figures dont lie. If it didn’t dey it didn’t dey!!!

I am
Not here to debate reasons with anybody because I recognize that 1) most people on Nairaland are unintelligent and poorly educated and 2) emotional, prejudiced and subjective.

I primarily post from a point of view of what the figures say. I really do not care why the figure say what they say only what they say.

Hope2023:
It's really funny how u do ur own election arithmetic, 14m, 10m yen yen yen, so human behaviour and reaction to situations is now mathematics that u don't even want to understand that the personality of the candidates matter too, aside from the core partisan politicians, what makes u feel all the people that voted for Apc in 2019 did so because of the party, most people voted for Buhari and Buhari is no longer on d ballot, u could see d way stadiums were full to brim when Buhari was campaigning in 2019, some will even hang on walls and trees, is it d same with Tinubu now, I'm Yoruba but it amazes me how we always assume and conclude that Tinubu will clear southwest easily, but when it comes to North we will say they will share North. I can't predict who will win eventually, but it will be a very tight contest between Tinubu and Atiku, Even Inec has said they are preparing for a rerun in d 2023 presidential election.. it would be the toughest and d most keenly contested presidential election in Nigeria since 1999.

My friend what you have just shown is your ignorance. Mathematics is the language of the universe. It encompasses without emotion occurrences in the universe.

Through Mathematics we measure and count time and observe that every 24hrs a new day starts. Why does it happen, you may not know but the mathematics is never wrong….you count 24 hrs and a new day will come!!

A woman has had 40 boyfriends, why we don’t care, you can start to give reasons truthful or not, factual or emotional but mathematics says what is not in dispute. You have a high body count.

That is the beauty of mathematics. And it applies to all aspects of life, economics, medicine, politics, engineering. Mathematics never lies!!!! If it didn’t dey, it didn’t dey!!!!

So in politics You have more votes than me, I win…you have more votes than me, you win…it’s very simple!!! Arguing with people over opinions and emotional stuff is pointless!! A smart man looks at the figures!!!!!! You can be angry all you like, you can suffer all you like, you can mobilize all you like. If you are only 30 and you opposition is 100, You can NEVER win an election…..it’s mathematics!!

Righthussle:
My advice to G5 is: No matter what you guys do, please don't leave the PDP. Atiku will decamp to APC after losing in 2023 and the party will return to the original owners.

I said it in a previous post….watch out for Wike!! He is the incoming Jagaban!!! He has never lost a war and he has always dealt with his enemies!!!

Look at APC, there is no natural successor to Tinubu. Tinubu, Atiku, Buhari are on their way out. Wike is the next anchor, giant and leader of Nigerian politics.

I am not a PDP man but even I recognize he is the future!!!!

Is he contesting for president of Biafra or president of Nigeria because I know the people of the states he needs to become president don’t answer to Ohaneze, assuming we can even ascertain which Ohaneze is talking as there seems to be so many. I don’t know if the Ibo man needed endorsement from Ihaneze to vote for Obi!

jamesversion:
What will happen if Atiku wins??

He can’t win. The worst people to depend on for victory and have turn against you are

1: an unstrategic man of average intelligence with an inferiority complex determined to prove himself and be accepted (Peter Obi)
2: a highly intelligent man whose ego has been crushed and an ox to gore (Wike)

Unfortunately for Atiku he needed both men and both have turned against him and neither can be reigned in because their battles are emotional a battles based on ego and self worth. You can’t win a battle with a man fighting for his ego/pride. He either wins or you both lose!!! There is no in between.

Wike will win his battle, Atiku and Obi will lose theirs. The difference between all 3 is intellect, Wike is way above them!!!!

Wike has no equal in Nigerian politics except for Tinubu. Go back in his history, just like Jagaban, Wike does not lose battles. He is the next political force in Nigeria after Tinubu..mark my words!!!!

Honjoshy4u:
2019 was dynamic compared to what will happen in 2023.
The North has a candidate whose region have not thirsted president, the S.E have a candidate whose region have not thirsted president.
The S.W have a candidate whose region have done 8years president..... At the end, everyone will protect their interest and Tinubu the greedy man will be abandoned.

Don’t be speaking English you clearly dont understand.

Everything else is emotional ranting. You were the one talking about emotion, we gave you figures, your brain scatter, you resort to emotion!!!’

Minority can be sentimental and emotional all they want. If you don’t t have the numbers you don’t have the numbers. If it didn’t dey, it didn’t dey!!!