felixomor:


Keep quiet my friend.
House job is almost part of medical student life.
You knew nothing then.



Maybe you are still even on the house job.
No wonder u make so much noise.

Yea yea, whatever. Maybe house job for you was a part of Medical student Life, it wasn't same for me.
I've already posted picture of my full registration here, not provisional registration given to those doing house job. You would know that if you were a doctor now won't you?


Still waiting for the foolish EEG facts.

butterflylion:


Buahahahahahahaha see a person who is making things up as he goes now jumping upandan claiming I posted lies and half truths.

All my truths have been posted as facts. Where are yours?

All you have done have been making assumptions and making things up.

Refrain from calling anything lies when you are the Chief culprit.

Sure, not going to engage in a war of words.

felixomor:


Hehehehe, house job!
LMAO

Yea, house job and that's just one of the times I've had to work in a neurology unit. I thought you said I made the neurology thing up.

Still waiting for the foolish EEG facts.

felixomor:


The guy has escaped .......
His quackery is legendary

Escaped to where?
I'm still here.

butterflylion:


At this point you deserve nothing but face palms because you know zilch, Nada, zero, nothing!

Oga, it's not too much talk.
Post where his doctors declared him brain dead.
If you had you would have posted long ago.

butterflylion:


If this talk was on a different medical miracle he would have claimed he once was Once a medical person in that field as well just to argue.

Sure, if it's a unit that I've rotated through, I'll definitely talk, you expectme to keep quiet in the face of lies and half truths?

butterflylion:


When you do please don't forget to post the images you claim are too small for you to read there as well so they can help you read them alright?

Sure, no problem.

felixomor:

I have not seen yet
And i was able to spot your disconnect and foolish talk on EEgs
Just as the op said, you make up things as you go....

Just as u made up that magic "neurology' unit moments ago.

What disconnect and foolish talk did I talk about EEG?
I challenge you to point one out.l

Of course I've worked in a neurology unit. I did house job remember? You rotate through units. You would know that or you just decided to forget it. That's just one.

butterflylion:


Chai this man still cannot see even when he claims to have medical eyes.

To declare someone brain dead has massive medical and judicial consequences, so please, show me where in the articlehis doctors said that he's brain dead.

As in, they pronounced him brain dead, not that it was implied.
Categorical pronouncement.

butterflylion:


There are specifics being looked out for when using an EEG and when seen the image is captured for reference. Without these deliberate focused investigations the images would not be needed.

Since we have images and the images showed no pattern even in the remotest form he claimed the images were too small to read.

His device must be good at targeting only my images and shrinking them to the point they cannot be seen by him.

My God.
In fact, I'm tired really.
This is what happens when you have a medical discussion with a non medical personnel. You're hear all sorts of rubbish.

I'm definitely putting up your picture and your accompanying ridiculous question to my WhatsApp group.
I cannot laugh alone abeg

felixomor:

Oh so you were in a neurology unit, yet went numb when you were asked your specialty for days.
Mscheww, let us hear word.

Obviously, From your dribbles
Its obvious you have not used an EEG

And it's quite surprising that you are asking what is the relationship between using a medical device and reading its print out.
It clearly shows some incompetence on your part.
Sorry to say
because if you have seen it being used, some of the stupid questions and talk you vomitted on this thread wouldnt have come out from your mouth.

Someone who hasn't seen an EEG machine is calling me incompetent.
I don die

butterflylion:


The three essential findings in brain death are coma, absence of brainstem reflexes, and apnoea Eben Alexander had all three.

Now link that to this below

Unfortunately, once there is no brain activity (as documented by 2 EEG's - brain wave tests), the person is "brain dead", and although the body can be kept alive by artificial means, the person can not recover from that.

You see you are just making things up as you go.

And oh yes I am still waiting for your response to the question he challenged physicians with. Don't let me grow old while waiting please.

Please refer me to the part of the article where his doctors declared him brain dead. Thanks



I've already answered you and Dr. Eben's pseudoscientific question.

butterflylion:


You have no clue of what you are talking about Mr competent doctor. All your comments and responses here are just being made up as you go along. I on the other hand have been giving you nothing but pure facts step by step. You have been making wild guesses and insinuations.

Sure, Pat yourself on the back if it makes you sleep better at night.

felixomor:


Examining and reading tracing is different from using the machine...
Have u used the machine?

Also so far, u have not demonstrated enough special knowledge to qualify you for management of epilepsy.
I wonder the hospital where u r doing EEg tracing examination

What next are you going to ask me?
Have I operated an x-ray machine, ct scan, MRI?
Since I must use the machine to be able to use the result and appreciate how the machine works.


Please what is there in managing epilepsy in a neurology unit? I said we've managed not I've managed.

EEG mchines are everywhere, that you've not seen one doesn't mean everyone is like you.

butterflylion:


Look up.

Vegetative state is equal to brain death in your Medical school abi?
See why I said you have no clue what you're talking about?

He isn't the first patient to defy prognostic odds and he won't be the last okay?

butterflylion:


Again you show your incompetence. Here is what another neurologist had to say.

Unfortunately, once there is no brain activity (as documented by 2 EEG's - brain wave tests), the person is "brain dead", and although the body can be kept alive by artificial means, the person can not recover from that.

From the pictures I attached in the OP how many EEG tests do you think Eben Alexander had?

Make I wait for your answer patiently.

You post radioimages and ask me to determine how many EEG that he had?
You see why I say you have no clue of what I'm talking about?



So, if he had no EEG readings, was Dr. Eben declared brain dead? Yes or No

butterflylion:



Your last comment just proves your level of incompetence. Here is what someone more knowledgeable than you had to say.

In order to maintain consciousness, a person needs to have a perfectly functioning cerebral cortex and brainstem. Any significant impairment of cortical function—something as trivial as a few good whiffs of ether—can cause loss of consciousness. With further impairment of cortical and brainstem function, the person slips deeper and deeper into coma, a state where the person can't be awakened, fails to respond normally to painful stimuli and doesn't initiate voluntary actions.

The stages of coma can be charted with the Glasgow Coma Scale which assesses eye, verbal and motor responses. In addition, other neurological examinations, such as the pupillary light reflex, indicate the status of brainstem function. For example, if the pupils do not constrict on shining a light, this would indicate brainstem or similar impairment. (something Eben Alexander suffered from because his medical report cited the above).

Seizures of the sort exhibited by Eben Alexander, so called tonic-clonic seizures, are symptoms that present outwardly as wild thrashing movements. During the tonic phase the skeletal muscles will suddenly tense and the person may also express brief vocalizations like a loud moan or scream due to air forcefully expelled from the lungs. During the clonic phase, the person's muscles will start to contract and relax rapidly, causing convulsions. There may be exaggerated twitching of the limbs or violent shaking.

Alexander exhibited status epilepticus or persistent seizures.

The coma and seizures were brought on by the onslaught of the bacterial meningitis infection which spread very rapidly through his cerebral spinal fluid. The bacteria attacked the entire outer surface of his brain including the neocortex, hippocampus and other parts of the limbic system, and the brainstem. (That was what Alexander's medical report said)

This attack brought on Alexander's subjective experience of loss of memory, language and identity, and his loss of consciousness. The attack also induced wild neuronal fluctuations in his cortex and other regions which resulted in the persistent seizures.

Eben Alexander was in a meningitis-induced coma hours before the sedatives were administered. The sedatives were administered to control the seizures. Alexander remained in a meningitis-induced coma even after the sedating medications were stopped.

Do you see how incompetent this report makes you?

Oh god.
What in this your lengthy article remotely debunked what I said?

felixomor:


As a doctor
Have u used an EEG before?

Yes or No

I've had to examine the EEG tracings of a patient that we're managing for epilepsy, yeah.

butterflylion:



Again I had to laugh out loud.

So an EEG is accurate ba? Yet this accurate EEG isn't credible when it comes to the case of Eben Alexander but it was credible when used to read the brain activity of other patients in coma or who also experience NDE while in coma (do you even see how ridiculous you sound and how you are making this up as you go along?)

Your last comment just proves your level of incompetence. Here is what someone more knowledgeable than you had to say.

In order to maintain consciousness, a person needs to have a perfectly functioning cerebral cortex and brainstem. Any significant impairment of cortical function—something as trivial as a few good whiffs of ether—can cause loss of consciousness. With further impairment of cortical and brainstem function, the person slips deeper and deeper into coma, a state where the person can't be awakened, fails to respond normally to painful stimuli and doesn't initiate voluntary actions.

The stages of coma can be charted with the Glasgow Coma Scale which assesses eye, verbal and motor responses. In addition, other neurological examinations, such as the pupillary light reflex, indicate the status of brainstem function. For example, if the pupils do not constrict on shining a light, this would indicate brainstem or similar impairment. (something Eben Alexander suffered from because his medical report cited the above).

Seizures of the sort exhibited by Eben Alexander, so called tonic-clonic seizures, are symptoms that present outwardly as wild thrashing movements. During the tonic phase the skeletal muscles will suddenly tense and the person may also express brief vocalizations like a loud moan or scream due to air forcefully expelled from the lungs. During the clonic phase, the person's muscles will start to contract and relax rapidly, causing convulsions. There may be exaggerated twitching of the limbs or violent shaking.

Alexander exhibited status epilepticus or persistent seizures.

The coma and seizures were brought on by the onslaught of the bacterial meningitis infection which spread very rapidly through his cerebral spinal fluid. The bacteria attacked the entire outer surface of his brain including the neocortex, hippocampus and other parts of the limbic system, and the brainstem. (That was what Alexander's medical report said)

This attack brought on Alexander's subjective experience of loss of memory, language and identity, and his loss of consciousness. The attack also induced wild neuronal fluctuations in his cortex and other regions which resulted in the persistent seizures.

Eben Alexander was in a meningitis-induced coma hours before the sedatives were administered. The sedatives were administered to control the seizures. Alexander remained in a meningitis-induced coma even after the sedating medications were stopped.

Do you see how incompetent this report makes you?

See why I said you don't even understand a quarter of what I'm talking about?


Just be making noise upandan and recycling the same argument.

butterflylion:


So much hypocrisy. This kind of doctor that runs to other people's comments and uses them as a defence na wa o. He cannot write one single line of his own to at least show us how competent he is medically.

I have given him a direct question from Eben Alexander which he threw as a challenge to all sceptics. Let's see him try and answer that by himself without reference to others.

Runs to other other people's comment?
Remember I stated that Dr. Sacks has already offered an explanation to Dr. Eben's case, I am only here to differentiate between no detectable brain activity and no brain activity.


This is becoming ridiculous.

butterflylion:


So you did not see the question he asked Sam Harris ba? Okay make I show you.


To any skeptic who thinks he has explained my experience as brain-based, he then needs to address the non-local nature of consciousness ~ the broad clinical experience in transpersonal psychology (notably all of the past life clinical work, the reincarnation work from Ian Stevenson and Jim Tucker at UVA; also very relevant in terms of how I remembered so much) and address the overwhelming tsunami of evidence of the phenomena of non-local consciousness in Irreducible Mind.

I have shown you the question so there is no way you could miss it this time. Oya fire away with your explanation and let's have a lovely argument.

Instead of facing the truth and facts in the case you are applying a reverse methodology.

Do you see the attached meme? That is exactly what you are doing.

Everything about consciousness proves that it is seated squarely in the CNS.
The day science has irrefutable evidence to the contrary, I'll believe. That's my answer to you and Dr. Eben's pseudoscientific question.

butterflylion:


Catfishbilly quietly take several seats. Why are EEGS used on humans is it not to read brain activity? Doctors say that hallucinations occur only in the presence of brain activity which Eben Alexander did not have and it is a well established fact that during dreams or hallucinations brain activity or reactions are present and measurable with an EEG and Alexander had none.

Let's even push the alleged hallucinations aside for a minute. What would be your prognosis for someone in a coma and with no brain activity observed?

Would you say that person would wake up within days or would you say he may not wake up at all.

Even if he did somehow wake up would you say his brain functions would be intact and as sharp as it was before he had no brain activity after 7 days?

Would such a person wake up whole or wake up a vegetable?

EEGs are used cos they are noninvasive portable and accurate, but to increase the sensitivity especially in some cases of neurosurgery, Electrocorticogram is used.

And I've told you that he had his NDE as he was regaining cortical function which is obviously measurable in an EEG. Read the link I posted please. Everything is in there.


As for rate of recovery from a coma, several factors come into play including how long the person was in coma.
You can't compare the recovery rate of someone in coma for 7 days to someone in coma for 3 months.


At least, that your bullshit excerpt has been put to rest.

felixomor:


The only argument you are putting forward is an attack of a witness, with no meaningful rebuttal on your part.

And yet you want the op not to attack your competence...

Hypocrisy much.

I attacked his story, the one that isn't verifiable.
I never attacked his person.

butterflylion:



Buahahahahahahaha so now his time anchors are weak ba? People who prayed for him confirmed what he saw while in NDE and told him when they were actually doing those things he saw and you say his time anchors are weak.

Young man Abeg waka. Your case is a crazy one. So crazy that it is actually hilarious.

Witnesses confirmed his images of them were true based on what he saw them doing and what they had on. Even his son was in a different location when he saw the image of his son praying and you, yes you catfishbilly siddon for dia dey form critic on Nairaland.

Again Buahahahahahahahaha!

Appeal to ridicule much?

Even if you bothered reading the link that Dr. Sacks wrote, he demonstrated it that people with NDE have time distortion, a few minutes seem like hours to them.



Heavyweights in the medical field have already criticized his write up this one I'm doing for you people here is jara.

He for publish his findings for journals naa as he has only anecdotal evidence, the embarrassment would have be so much that he no fit publish for scientific journal again.

butterflylion:


By the way catfishbilly this is a medical and scientific statement about brain activity. Read and strive to be more medically competent.

[b]Heightened sensory perception is common in the near-death experience, and a recent study seems to indicate that these feelings of extrasensory perception may be caused by a significant spike in brain activity in the moments just before death[/b]. The study was conducted on rats and used a small sample size, so some in the scientific community have dismissed the results, but lead researcher Jimo Borjigin believes that it demonstrates the biological basis for the near-death experience. The study relied on the implantation of electrodes into the brains of the rats so that researchers could study the levels of brain activity at the time of death. The results showed that the rats experienced what the researchers termed as “hyperconsciousness,” which aligns with the heightened senses many individuals associate with a near-death experience. According to Borjigin, “We found continued and heightened activity. Measurable conscious activity is much higher after the heart stops—within the first 30 seconds.”

If you see the parts in red, Eben Alexander was supposed to experience a spike or increase in brain activity but he had none. Even if as you claim he may have had but the equipment wasn't capable of reading it I am sure you know what spike or increase in brain activity is. A spike wouldn't be hidden! A spike wouldn't be undetectable! He had none. Explain!

Here he goes talking about my competence again.
Can't you face the issue on hand instead of referring to my comptence as if you understand a quarter of what I'm talking about. Face the issue, please, if you can't I'll just leave you.


The excerpt you posted is self debunking.
The sample size already rendered it null and void. Dr. Eben was monitored with an EEG. What was used in the rats? EEG? Electrocorticogram? fMRI?

butterflylion:




Some of his anchors were images of his son praying and what he had on. Also images of people around his bed praying. These images came well after his NDE began and when he came out from the coma and spoke with these people whom incidentally some of them were around his bed at the time he woke up he was able to get "time markers" or "anchors" determining when they were praying and how many days into his coma it was. It certainly wasn't the 7th day.

what evidence do you need to believe? Let me quote smallville10


You guys never cease to amaze even stvpid people.

Post here Oliver Wolf sacks direct response to Eben Alexander case based on the evidence Alexander presented. I want a direct response from him.

I am still waiting for your response to his question directed at Sam Harris. Surely you no go neglect that one na. Is that not part of the evidence Eben Alexander presented?

If you wish to refute an evidence do so holistically and not selectively. I dey wait for your response to that one as proof of this your competency.

1,2,3 fire away.

Which questions did he ask Sam Harris? The only question I could see there was him asking for skeptics to bring another case similar to his.

This is the article by Oliver Wolf Sacks, quite interesting.
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/12/seeing-god-in-the-third-millennium/266134/




So, his brain was offline for 7 whole days, but he was able to appreciate those things? Fuckkking hilarious.


How science works is that claims are verified indepently.
So, he was in a coma. Verified.
He had undectable cerebral activity. Verified.
He had an NDE for 7 whole days, now there's no way to verify that. His time anchors are weak to say the least.
No wonder it wasn't published in a journal cos his claims are unverifiable.

butterflylion:


Oh so a certain neurologist gave an explanation? Below is Eben Alexanders comment when hushing Sam Harris up.

"The thalamus, basal ganglia, and brainstem are deeper brain structures (“subcortical regions”) that some colleagues postulated might have contributed to the processing of such hyperreal experiences. In fact, all agreed that none of those structures could play any such role without having at least some regions of the neocortex still functional. All agreed in the end that such subcortical structures alone could not have handled the intense neural calculations required for such a richly interactive experiential tapestry.
There are 9 hypotheses discussed in an appendix of my book that I derived based on conversations with colleagues. None of them explained the hyper-reality in any brain-based fashion."

Can I have the name and writings of this certain neurologist who you said explained it all away.

By the way did you know that his coma lasted for 7 days? And he went into NDE experience immediately he slipped into this coma which is from the first day and since his coma lasted for 7 days which he woke up on the 7th day how come your alleged neurologist said his NDE experience occurred as he was waking up?

Also just like Eben Alexander did I dare you to refute his question to Sam Harris which is also a challenge to all other physicians who care to scrutinise it.

Catfishbilly you are a learner. Your medical position if any is not worthy of consideration especially in the face of people more profound than you are.

Do you even think that nobody has considered the possibility of the other imaging method you keep talking about?

You, yes you catfishbilly no sabi Nada.

Oliver Wolf Sacks. Go look him up.


So, he stated that he was sure that the whole episode lasted for 7 days despite his brain being offline.
He got to know this due to certain anchors to earth time.
What were these anchors? He didn't mention one.
He just felt that he had an NDE for 7 complete days. Pure undilituted anecdotal bullshit with nothing to back it up.


No wonder he didn't publish his experience in a peer reviewed publication, they would have torn it apart because it is purely anecdotal, so because he said the nde lasted for 7 days, we should just believe him without any evidence to verify his claims?

Nobody would have carried out an Electrocorticogram on him cos he was in a coma already, it was way too invasive.


So, since you have nothing to say, it's to attack my medical competence? You know nothing about my competency, just leave that aside and let's discuss the issue at hand.

butterflylion:


Neither does your probing the medical equipment used answer my questions nor does it disprove Eben Alexanders claims especially when you are not in any way near as competent as the doctor who handled his case and other doctors who have confirmed the results of his EEG which clearly showed no brain activity.

If you were in any way competent and credible you would first interpret the brain imaging pictures I posted and then state if EEG could be read erroneously by an expert of many years or if the equipment could produce false negatives and under what conditions this could happen.

If you were in any way competent you would have made some effort to answer Eben Alexander questions which he gave to Sam Harris and I posted up there. At least that would show your level of credibility since it was a challenge given by Eben Alexander himself to any medical practitioner who is worth his weight in knowledge.

But did you attempt any of that? Hell to the no. Instead you jumped straight to type of equipment. Guy you are a learner!

I've read about this Doctor and a Neurologist gave an explanation. He experienced his NDE as he was regaining full function of the cerebral cortex. Simple and straightforward. If you have even bothered to research the article, you would have seen that explanation.
Or maybe you saw it and decided to ignore it to push your agenda, that was why I never even bothered about answering the question. Since you asked, here you have your answer.



The images your posted there are radioimages (MRI, CT), there's no way for me to interpret them cos they are too small, I have to hold it in my hands to be able to interpret. If you want me to interpret, bring the EEG tracings for me here and I'll gladly interpret them.



Since you said that they're EEG tracings, I've already mentioned a more sensitive modality for you Electrocorticogram which is actually used during neurosurgery to check if the patient still has brain activity, not EEG.


Instead of looking at natural and scientific answers to questions, you all want a supernatural explanation. If that's what makes yall sleep better at night, so be it.

butterflylion:


So now you wish to probe the medical equipment used ba?

You see Eben Alexander was no push over and was a well known neurosurgeon among his peers so when he suffered his condition he was taken to Lynchburg General Hospital and here is a little information about that hospital.

Lynchburg General Hospital, with 385 licensed beds, is an emergency and critical care center specializing in cardiology, emergency medicine, orthopedics, oncology, neurology, and neurosurgery.

LGH is recognized nationally for its oncology, cardiac, and neurosciences programs, as well as nursing. National recognitions some of our services have received, include:

1. 50 Top Cardiovascular Hospital

2. Magnet Nursing

3. Cancer Care Services Accredited with Commendation from Commission on Cancer of the American College of Surgeons
Highest Rating from Society of Cardiothoracic Surgeons for open heart surgery

4. Certified National Primary Stroke Center (region's only)

5. Forbes Safest Hospitals in America

6. Certified Chest Pain and Acute MI Center

7. National Accreditation Program for Breast Centers (region's only)

8. Level II Trauma Center

With the above you think they have incompetent medical personnel? An EEG is also used to find out if a person who is in a coma is brain dead. Can you define what being brain dead means please.

His doctor took several tests as you can see from the attached pictures in the OP and all of them showed no brain activity and here you are probing her methods. Perhaps you would have preferred that they referred him to you so you could have better handled his case.

You are on Nairaland trying to analyse and disprove what actual qualified medical doctors with far better medical equipment than any in Nigeria and who worked in one of the top 50 hospitals in the United States already confirmed as a credible report of no brain activity. OK kontinue.

Actual medical doctors? Somehow, I'm not allowed to have an opinion because I'm not a medical doctor abi?
See your life?

All what you wrote up there was useless, my post was basically to differentiate between no brain activity and no detectable brain activity and to buttress the point, I asked for which modality that was used to detect the brain activity.

You don't have to get all emotional. We're having a civil discussion. Listing the qualities of the hospital doesnt answer my question in anyway.

butterflylion:


My gosh! So no detectable brain activity does not mean no brain activity? Can you share with me a medical equipment that can detect undetectable brain activity. I dey wait!

Also can you tell me where a brain activity was present yet not detected by the medical equipment specifically designed for it and which can detect the smallest flicker of electrical activity in the brain. I dey wait also.

For example, I don't know which modalities that were used in this patient.
If it were an Electroencephalogram for example, the electrodes are placed on the scalp.
But if it was an Electrocorticogram, the electrodes are placed directly on the cerebral cortex, so you already know which one of the 2 is most sensitive.
There's also fMRI to detect cerebral activity.
So, a less sensitive machine could report no detectable brain activity while a more sensitive would report brain activity, get it now?


There's even deep electrode implants in the cerebral cortex, which are even more sensitive.
I don't think those have been used on humans though for obvious reasons.

butterflylion:


Don't mind that zombie. NDE is as old as history itself. Credible scientific institutions have dedicated funds and teams into researching it because it defies science in so many ways. He is not scientific but is already declaring it as false when modern science has not been able to come close to declaring it as false because a lot of these NDE patients experienced their NDE without having brain activity which clearly goes against accepted medical observations.

The zombies anthem is mi o le gba. Ni Tori pe mi o gba, gbo gbo yin Kparo. ( I will not accept it and because I will not accept it then all of you are liars).

His brain is paining him.

Without having detectable brain activity and without having brain activity are 2 different things.

KingEbukasBlog:


An omnipotent God who expresses freedom of will can end the existence of a coexistent material object ,since God is both necessary and non-contingent . Its not argument from incredulity , its simply what it is

Now we have veered off into Pseudo philosophical bullshit territory. God is necessary, how convenient.

Red herring

There is no evidence for an eternal universe . End of story

Carry your fantasy go oo my brother

Channel your complaints to the people that published the article, not me.
If a counter article is published, I'm willing to change my stance, but till then, there's a model for an eternal universe. Suck it up.