spacetacular:


Since it's an NDE and they came back from the experience it's safe to say they took a tour and were not meant to be permanent residents at the time so they could be ushered In through any entrance or even through an exit.

I like your imagination

I do not know where you read yours but practically all Muslim NDE experiences I have read talk about encountering someone they termed as Jesus. So where did you get yours?

So, you've read every single Muslim nde that there is? Ngwa clap for yourself.
I get mine from Muslims who are trying to convert me, they give me books and pamphlets plus the odd ones I read on the internet, none of the mentioned any Jesus like figure.

felixomor:


Google the age of the universe
And study it.

because your mind is already bent on arguing against evidence. By telling me what and what not to say.

Okay, good, you don't know when the universe began then. Cos you were going to say the big bang and it doesn't preclude an eternal universe, just wanted to let you know that.
Evidence my foot.


As for the age of the universe, just study the big bang theory.

spacetacular:


You saw where I mentioned leaving heaven and hell aside did you not? Focus on the other areas I mentioned.

Also nobody can say they had totally different accounts of heaven or hell Afterall if I decide to take you into a great house through the kitchen it would be a different view from when I decide to take you in through the chimney or the front door.

I have no issues with NDEs, they are just a medical "mystery" that will be unraveled sooner or later.
What I'm interested in is the contents of their "afterlife" visions, I've read quite a few, Christian and moslems basically, and they have totally different accounts of what they saw, like hell for example each of the religions described it as how it looked like in their holy texts. Which raises questions of the authenticity of their "visions"

This your house analogy sef. A guest to an everlasting place of rest should take the front door, I don't get why he should enter through the chimney or back door.

felixomor:


The universe is not eternal
It has a beginning
Its age has even been estimated.

When did the universe begin? Please don't say the big bang.

Religion and god, they are both figment of someone's imagination. If someone wants to use that imagination to make rules that'll affect my well being, hell yeah I would speak out.

Now, concerning the issue of first cause, no one has been able to prove beyond every reasonable doubt that the universe started to exist. For all we know, it could have been eternal.

So, if someone can prove to me that the universe indeed has a beginning, then maybe I might take the concept of "first cause" seriously.

spacetacular:


If you took time to study every NDE experience besides them talking about heaven or hell (leaving that aside) you will begin to see a pattern.

It could be patterns in conversation, contact, feeling, perception. None of those who experienced these were loonies.

People have been in coma for years and came back with clear tales of NDE visions while in coma. They have told of things physically and visually happening around them or in their homes which were far from the ICU they are in and all they have said were for the most part accurate.

Why do they come back with completely different stories of heaven and hell? There should be one heaven and one hell, right?

CatfishBilly:

Picked.
Patiently waiting for part 2.
Pleasure as always.

Part 2 picked up.
Thanks so much, man.

I don't even dream when I sleep not to talk of nightmares.

Klasna. Bravo.
A refreshingly new write up in this section for a change.
I agree with your position 100%

What the hell happened here?
Y'all should take it easy, please.

ambassagod:


She is not obliged to that!!

Then she shouldn't feel terrible if no one answers her questions.
The answers are right here in this section.
She shouldn't expect anyone to spoon-feed her.

GoodMuyis:
space.tacular has raised a good question, just reading page 1 and 2 i see the atheists here are trying as much as possible not to fall by their own words, trying avoiding a situation of "what you say will be used against you", this is not "Open Mind" discussion.

To me this alone is embarrassment to healthy and open-minded discussion. Many time the atheists jump on Thread meant to discussed Christian faith and they killed it right on 1st page, but here is a question on the basis of their LACK OF BELIEF or BELIEF IN ABSENCE instead of addressing it they choose to run around like suspected badoo member that was set ablaze.

The OP reason something an brought-up a question expecting you guys to reason with her but you guys are killing it with your fear of loosing argument SHAME ON YOU ALL. AND YOUR Hi-IQ.

There are 1001 threads here by atheists, describing their "epiphany", if she really wants to, she can read them and get to know.

spacetacular:



Let me make this simple for you. Can an unscientific mind give a scientific appraisal?

Can a non religious mind give a religious appraisal?

The answer to both is NO!

So how would a Scientific journal appraise prayer when even you claim SCIENCE IS NOT RELIGION AND RELIGION CANNOT MERGE WITH SCIENCE. Last time I checked PRAYER IS AN ASPECT OF RELIGION.

isn't that your own claim or the claims of atheists as a whole?

But there was a religious mind attached to the study, the Templeton foundation was there to give the religious appraisal.

Harvard University was there to give the scientific appraisal.

The hospital was there to give the health appraisal, so, I don't know what you're on about.

spacetacular:


You never had a goal post to begin with. Your Templeton study has been exposed as the fraud it is.

Your claims are unverifiable. Same thing you do to theists.

Sure, fraud by pained theists, but nothing by actual scientific journals.
It hurts to see your private visual and auditory hallucination and ego massage sessions debunked don't it?
That's why y'all are running around shouting fraud where it is nowhere to be found.

spacetacular:



You first of all said your reputable scientific journals confirmed your prayer fraud yet you wrote about your experience here on Nairaland. Is Nairaland a "reputable scientific journal"?

How can we verify?

Why are you moving the goalposts?
Show me a reputable scientific journal that called the research a fraud. Stop running about. If a research is a fraud, a scientific journal calls it out, not pained theists.


You asked for my own personal research and conclusion and I submitted them, did I ever call it scientific?
What is wrong with you?

spacetacular:


And I have shown that your proof IS A FRAUD!

I also showed you a credible study that shows how prayer and spirituality is now being made a part of medicine. I think prayer and spirituality now being accepted and conducted in 101 out of 135 medical schools in the USA alone is extremely significant wouldn't you say so?

show me something else. Perhaps something you personally conducted Afterall you did not become an atheist on the same day and based on the same reasons as hopefullandlord. So it's only logical that you have your own findings.

It's now a fraud?
Show me a reputable scientific journal that called it a fraud apart from pained theists after their private auditory and visual hallucinations sessions was debunked.

Your studies didn't evaluate prayers alone as you would want us to believe. We read the excerpts you posted.

As for something I personally conducted, I have a whole thread I opened.
You've read the thread before, did it slip your mind?

spacetacular:


Again the finality. PRAYERS DON'T WORK!

where is your report on your foray to all the hospitals worldwide and all the homes worldwide or even your interview of each and every religious individual worldwide that made you arrive at this?

You are the one making the claim without evidence and you are asking someone else to provide his proof?

Are you for real?

I've got proof. A scientific study that was run by a religious foundation, a university and a hospital.
You don't want to accept it, that's your problem.

spacetacular:


The Bible offered a guide which you failed to see. I remember teaching you about prayer.

Read below


The Disciples asked him to teach them how to pray and he deliberately worded THE lords prayer that way so they would know the FOUNDATION of prayer.

Faith isn't the foundation. The foundation is relationship. This is why the Bible says FAITH WITHOUT WORKS (RELATIONSHIP) IS DEAD!

what are the works or relationship? How can I say I love God whom I have not seen when I do not love the people I see.

What are the works or relationship? 1st Corinthians 13 Vs 1- 8

If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,[b] but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

There are so many to point at but the summary of them all is RELATIONSHIP with God first before all else.

Ok

KingEbukasBlog:


Prayers to who ? The last time I checked , atheist Confucians pray to the spirit of their ancestors and atheist wiccans conjure incantations as a way of communicating with the elements of nature .

Please be specific

It doesn't matter to which deity.
Prayers don't work. End of story.
Don't come and tell me your anecdotes, I won't even entertain them.
If you've got proof, bring a research paper where prayer alone was tested with a control group.
I'm waiting.

spacetacular:


Let me post the Templeton fraud exposure again here.

[b]The problem with the templeton prayer study was based in the hypothesis itself: if we pray for someone then God will intervene in some supernatural way to restore a person’s health. No doubt this is a wonderful concept, but it eliminates the truth about the subject being studied. In the same way that the Prosperity Gospel cult has undercut the basis of Christian belief, this study is based on a lie. Somehow people have come up with this idea that if we ask for something then we can obligate God to deliver.

What kind of God would he be if we were able to say just the right words or preform just the right action that would somehow get God’s attention and thus getting a desired result? This concept makes God not God at all, but rather some cosmic vending machine or light switch

In John chapter 3 Jesus describes to a religious leader, Nicodemus, the nature and action of God. “The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going.” This makes the scientific study more akin to the study of psychology. If God is a volitional being, then we cannot expect that God will perform based on a regular standard and without fail.

In essence this study was not about prayer at all, but about the effect of positive words and their impact on a person’s health.

This is not to deny the power that abides in prayer, but it does stand in the face of a fallacy. Prayer is not about getting our goodies from God, but it is about trusting God to do what is best. It is about building a relationship and leaning on the truth that comes from that relationship.

This study would be just as flawed if it were conducted on child-parent relationships and we expected that the child would receive everything she asked her parents for. No doubt we would think very poorly of a parent who did that and it would be no stretch to expect that the child would be a lazy, fat brat. No doubt we would be in quite a big mess if God also fulfilled every request to our liking. It frankly gives me much satisfaction that this study was a failure, because it strengthens my trust in a God that cannot be contained"[/b].

All I see here are just excuses. The Bible was clear on how prayers work.

dalaman:


Jus show me the part that says that prayers alone works and where it says doctors recommend and use it in treating their patients.

That's because, it ain't there.
The most famous experiment for the efficacy of prayers was the Templeton foundation prayer experiment and Prayers failed woefully.

spacetacular:
I make bold to say that a whole bunch of you who claim to be atheists are simply skeptics and nothing more. None of you can give a profound indisputable epiphany which led you to atheism.

It's like you were simply looking for validation on a position you already had which is called DOUBT.

Doubt is a feeling of uncertainty or lack of conviction and your search for something to validate your doubt produced an illusion of atheism in you while all you still have is doubt which is simply skepticism.

If you want to know about my epiphany, my book comes out in 3 months. It has all your answers. If you feel they don't answer your questions, I'll also host a Reddit AMA where every issue will be addressed.
Be patient!

ambassagod:

Even if it is done, you will still come up with another gibberish, like "Oh, these theists are quite stupid! It is not a miracle, it just happened by chance!!

you see that?

Cretin, stop quoting me.
Fuckkking imbecil_e.
Fuckkking retar_d

spacetacular:


Read the article.

Requires a subscription.
What is on the website however doesn't disprove my submission.

spacetacular:


You were the one singing the alone tune. I simply wanted you to show me how it is the prayer does not work as you claimed and I showed you that study to show you that it does work be it alone or not.

Have you read it? If not, please do.

Prayer has a confounding effect, no one can say with any measure of certainty if it was the prayer that was effective or the drug.
So the best way is to evaluate them in isolation to remove any confounding effect. That was done, we both know how prayers performed.

ambassagod:

You are beginning to catch him.

Just follow the guy slowly, word for word and carefully. You will end up catching completely.

Idiot, is it a must to follow anybody on Nairaland.
Fuckkking cretin.