₦airaland Forum

Kukutenla:
We are going in circles because you keep misrepresenting facts
You got this from Wikipedia

Kukutenla:
This analogy is wrong because of you were a businessman without govt backing, you will need to go through all the stages of approval not to mention carrying out a feasibility study on the business environment. The point I'm making is Airbus will not do all that for you. The stake Airbus will put in is one that will mean more pressure on you to make it a success. Thus, you're not coming with an unfair upper hand. This is totally different because in the case of Nigeria Air, the regulator is also the player (FG) and a lot of leverage will be given to Ethiopian Airlines. Like i mentioned, Ethiopian Airlines can easily cut prices and with superior services, strangle the others out of business in one or two years, and after they become dominant, start price gouging. We've seen same with Dstv, MTN and Airtel before glo(a fully owned Nigerian business) came to slash their prices. I hope you can see the difference.



I don't assume the benefit is for Ethiopia alone. What I'm saying is apart from the corrupt and shady way the deal was done, the risks outweigh the benefits by far. May i ask you if you think it's beneficial to kill our homegrown airline in favour of a foreign airline just because we want to have a National carrier? Ethiopian Airlines WILL run the airline. That's same they did for Malawi and Zambia. I guess technical partners mean something else to you.

Otedola is not a technical partner in First Bank. If he has an agreement with the rest of the shareholders to technically handle the bank, he'll run the bank. That said, in the case of first bank, the largest shareholder is usually given the right to appoint the Chairman of the Board. So you can be rest assured Otedola's representative runs the boardroom just as that of Honeywell's used to do.

You have been quoting from Wikipedia and nobody discountenanced it. Now that a fact from there does not align with you, you suddenly hate it. If Ethiopian Airlines is private as you claim, how come no airline is allowed to compete with it locally in Ethiopia?


I never said all, but most. Air France is owned by the govt and what they have with KLM is a merger. The 28% represents their stake in the merger just like Nigeria has 5% and 46% through the NSIA.
British investors under IAG actually own 55% of the stake in the merger which makes British Airways the majority shareholder. So there's no way the IAG can be a subsidiary of Qatar Airways. If however, they are able to get the majority or controlling shares in future, IAG will become a subsidiary of Qatar Airways. It's how the business is. Nothing personal about it.
As for Lufthansa, it is wholly private owned and German sovereign funds were used to bail it out in 2014 to indirectly give govt 10% shares(govt in business again!!) So the German hands being referred to are private investors not "German people" like Volkswagen of old. So, it's totally wrong to use Lufthansa to illustrate Nigeria Air which a dime of it is not owned by any Nigerian!!

Kukutenla:
Yeah. I agree. They are not majority shareholders but what I was actuality referring to is that they hold the largest volume of shares and are also the technical partners and controlling company. Nigeria Air is listed as a subsidiary on their site and at least you know what that means from your definitions you copied. See second screenshot below. This shows they have a lot of influence over how the company will be run. The bigger catch for them is the free access to Nigeria's aviation sector. Like i pointed out to you before, they have almost exclusive access in their home country which is the second largest by population in Africa and thus potentially second largest market in Africa and now, just strolled into the largest market in Africa on a platter of gold. In terms of cost benefit. I don't see Nigeria gaining much because we should be aiming to be number 1 in Africa like we once were with Nigeria Airways. We're about to kill our local airlines for a govt owned foreign airline.

I see you asking if the Nigerians involved are stupid. I daresay a lot of ill that has befallen this country is because Nigerian officials take stupid decisions at the detriment of the country which they then cover in gold. I'll quote you six months from now about this particular airline. I'm a Nigerian and I know how things roll here. If you've been following the story of this Nigeria Air, you'll know how corrupt and inefficient the process has been. Let me remind you of the P&ID scam that can potentially cost Nigeria $20bn in govt damages and you'll understand how bad our policy makers can be. The risks and cost of this airline to our local sector is huge I kid you not. Ethiopian Air can kill off all our local lines in two years if not checked. Its always easy. Just junk prices and offer superior services and watch the other ones die a sure death.

I don't know where you got the idea that I don't believe in free market. Free market is not about foreign influx alone. US operates the largest free market yet still protects its local industries by placing high tariffs on Chinese made goods and restricting what can be imported.

What should drive principles is your best interests not the principles themselves. And i can assure you Nigeria's long term best interest is not served in this matter.

See the screenshot below. Ethiopian Airline is 1000% owned by Ethiopian govt. No ifs and buts about it. There's nothing shocking about that actually as most big airlines are either govt owned or govt backed. Emirates, Etihad, Air France, Pacific Airlines etc.
Bye

Kukutenla:
The more you write the more obvious it is that you're not familiar with corporate governance culture. Corporate governance is not an esusu-like arrangement where people can gather their shares and force a decision through. What you described is called corporate coup and is not exactly envisaged in the culture. A majority shareholder can't just be kicked aside by a combination of rebel minority shareholders and stripped of his privileges. The idea behind shareholding is that the individual shareholder bears risk or shares profit or loss based on the number of shares. So, even if the minority shareholders take such a "brotherly" decision as you put it, it does not increase the risk they are exposed to individually and thus, can't force the majority to become minority. The corporate governance code which established Nigeria Air must have included some clauses to protect Ethiopian airlines if not they wouldn't go ahead with it.
I see you've gone back to prevaricating. You espoused the theory of no govt in business to defend Sirika's having and now you're putting it on buhari. You lack consistency. Don't hide behind the buhari govt. Do you really believe govt has no business in business? If so, how do you explain Ethiopia running an airline successfully.
I never said Nigerian govt should subsidise local airlines. Are they subsidizing Ethiopian airlines by investing in Nigeria Air? You enjoy muddling things up just for the sake of it. And you ended with a mere speculation not based on any fact or logic. Just wishful thinking. Ethiopian airlines will kill off the local airlines if they're allowed access to the local market via Nigeria Air. It's simple logic that they can afford to and won't mind doing so. After all, that's how they operate in their home country. There are numerous examples of foreign giants killing off local businesses in Nigeria. The case of DStv and hi-tv is very fresh in memory. So it's not an assumption. It's a reality and one of the major reasons the local airlines sued Sirika
NSIA is actually 10 years old. It started in 2013.
.

Kukutenla:
Lol. You just keep contradicting yourself. You believe govt has no business in business but you think a business 100% owned by a govt should run an airline on behalf of another govt? Perhaps you mean Nigerian govt has no business in business. I think it's just an overused cliche by capitalists and neo- capitalists who just want to form economic literacy. What you don't realise is you're excusing Ethiopian govt from your principle just because they were successful where Nigeria failed.
What exactly do you mean by the airline is owned by Nigerians? Who are the Nigerians and what are their names? NSIA operates like a private entity in case you're not aware. And the fact still remains that the company profile lists Ethiopian airline as the majority shareholder and not "Nigerians" whatever that means in a corporate sense. It even sounds socialist to begin with and is funny coming from someone who claims to believe in capitalism. MTNN is a Nigerian company. Go and find out how much it repatriate to its parent company in SA. You really don't sound knowledgeable about this.

And no, it is not progressing. Neither is it growing. You shared a quote from Ethiopian Airlines MD where he mentioned "some issues". Have they been solved? Get real man!!
If the minister was serious, he could have recapitalised our airlines and gotten the govt to back them up to play big in the sector instead of looking to kill them with a sledgehammer which you slyly call competition. Imagine NSIA, pushing that 46% equity into just 3 of our local airlines. Just imagine what that will mean for them.
Stop the self- deceit bro. You can't wish things into existence. The minister is simply looking to cover the tracks of his loot. We are all in this country and we know how it goes. Blind optimism will not solve our issues.
And go and check the meaning of subsidiary, then come back and tell me MTNN is not a subsidiary of MTN SA. If you can juxtapose that, you'll see clearly what you have in ground is a subsidiary arrangement. Which is the fulcrum of the court case the local airlines instituted.

Kukutenla:
This is a joke
It seems you just want to defend the indefensible by making up things as you go along.
May I ask if it's really true even to you that our local routes are not competitive? We actually have more than five local carriers. So this your claim is totally bogus. You also sidestepped the illegality aspect of the deal with Ethiopian Airlines as if whatever economic principle you espouse trumps the rule of law. You're just not reading, assimilating and comprehending the facts. This govt is protectionist. Both sides have their pros and cons. So it's only a rudderless govt that dangles in-between. That creates room for uncertainty and speculation which is known to be bad for any serious financial economy. What you're doing is claiming the govt got it right for aviation, regardless of how shabby, corrupt and inefficient the result is, but should be given the benefit of doubt in the case of Dangote because of an "if". Its intellectual dishonesty to be frank.
And for your info, Ethiopia actually runs a protectionist policy on its local travels. No airline is allowed to use planes carrying more than 50 passengers and there are a number of routes available to only Ethiopian airlines. That's the airline you want your local operators to compete against using your national carrier and govt backing. If there's a more apt definition for economic myopia, I'll struggle to find it.

You're quick to call Nigeria Airways. What you don't realise is that's a tacit admission that our govt is totally useless if Ethiopian govt can run an airline successfully and ours cannot. It's not about being giant of Africa. In economic terms, Ethiopia does not hold a candle to Nigeria but here you are shamelessly projecting that our govt can't run an airline successfully but can maintain a fleet of ten planes for the president.
Get real man!!
There's no secret formula anywhere to running an airline other than prudent and focused management. Nigerian govt is not the majority shareholder. It shows you lack knowledge of these things to say so. NSIA is totally different from the Nigerian govt, both structurally and corporate-wise. You can talk about having an influence, yes. But to all intents and purposes, in the eyes of the law, Ethiopian Airlines is the majority shareholder with a huge say on how the airline eventually turns out, thus making Nigeria Air effectively a subsidiary. No human with common sense will expect Ethiopian Airlines to build Nigeria Air up to a level it will compete favorably with its own fleet. There goes your theory on competition!

Kukutenla:
This is hypocrisy at best and absurdity at worst.
You're claiming competition for something that's against our national aviation laws.
May i ask. Do you support the banning of importation of sugar and cement so that Dangote and Co can grow? Do you support the closing of the border to improve rice production? You see, this govt has been the most protective of our local industries since the time of OBJ. So it's simply nonsense to claim same govt wants to open up the market to competition, and not just that, but also giving the foreign companies support to be stronger than the local ones. That's a classical case of policy somersault or maybe you're just ignorant of the posture of the govt you support.

If Dangote sugar and cement is not competitive then yes you allow the importation. The consumers must be the winner not the producers. It is such inefficiencies that is bringing Nigeria down. This will force local markets to be competitive. Dangote is operating in other African countries, so why would you want to close your market and expect other countries market to open their door for you? Markets have to be competitive. It is this old school protectionist attitude that is not making Nigeria competitive and why your services are below standard. You have to introduce competition. You can give a head start but not forever!

It's also funny you think Nigerian govt can't run Nigerian Air but a company 100% owned by Ethiopia can. I suggest we kuku handover FG to Ethiopia.
And you're dead wrong! Nigeria Air is being modeled as a subsidiary of Ethiopia airline and I've never heard of where a subsidiary overtakes its parent in same business. It's like saying Fanta will overtake Coke.

You may be suffering from amnesia, Nigeria Airways, does that ring a bell? An example of an airlines run to the ground by the Nigeria government. Are you looking for part two? As I said in earlier post Ethiopian Airlines have been very successful at this, they have the secret formula, there are a case study and you can search for this online. Nigeria Air will be a partner and not a subsidiary that is why the shareholding structure is set up like that. It is a Nigerian majority owned company, but yes the technical partner is Ethiopian Airlines and yes they will indeed be teaching Nigeria a thing, African giant, get over it. I gave you the example of Emirates and PIA. Emirates was not a subsidiary of PIA, nor is Nigeria Air a subsidiary of Emirates.

Simple common sense should dictate that you don't unveil something that's not ready or still in the work. It's a case of premature ejaculation or should I say premature birth.
With all your captions, I didn't see where the said airlines borrowed planes for media blitz or sold majority shares to their would-be competitor.
Stop comparing apples with oranges

Like I said in other countries they wouldn't have unveil the airlines but it is Nigeria. 8 years from now Rufai will still be saying did the minister delivered the airlines during his tenure? it is premature but he had to do something.

Kukutenla:
Who has mentioned tribe here. I only asked you a direct question. How did you view Jonathan's commissioning of the 2nd Niger bridge's plan.
The only person playing a stupid game is Sirika and don't make it look like Ethiopia is one country that's so high up there they won't do something unethical to gain some advantage. They are presently in court because what Sirika signed with them is illegal and against the country's aviation laws. While you ask that question, you forgot to ask what exactly was the point of showing off a jet or two that never carried any passenger? I thought what will be significant will be the first flight or something like that and not a single appearance of a jet in Nigeria Air colors.
Again, if it's policy you're talking about, is it a good policy to allow an already established international airline access to our local market under the guise of a national carrier? Are we killing our local airlines or strengthening them?
With the granting of government backed access to our local routes to Ethiopian airlines and without breaking a sweat too, and with the resources available to them, are we not making it easy for them to kill our local airlines? What happened to picking Air Peace, Arik or Azman as our national carrier and making the necessary financial structure available for it to play internationally instead of killing them?

Kukutenla:
Shut up and stop writing trash. What exactly do you mean by it's unveiling and not beginning of operation. Your warped logic is akin to doing housewarming party for a house yet to be completed.
What is the point of painting an aircraft in Nigeria Air colours just so we can snap pictures? Are we that much of a joke? You guys support nonsense point because your favourite politicians are the ones doing it. I remember the rain of insults when Jonathan was said to commission the beginning of works on 2nd Niger Bridge. People derided him that he was commissioning a drawing board. But today, some folks like you are defending painting of an aircraft. The baloney!!

babaolofin:
Thanks for taking time to write this explanation. I should have done that but because of that boy - David Hundeyi n who is the carrier of the propaganda. He is an expert in propaganda. I have already passed a judgement ahead of him that he is going to spend time in prison when times comes.

Since last year, it was announced that Ethiopian Airlines is the Technical Partner with 49% shares. The Aviation sector knows the meaning. There is an ongoing Court case . Air Nigeria cannot fly until the Court case is settled.

The Minister made mistake by trying to show Nigerians his achievement before May 26 which was the last working day of the administration.

Hundeyin did not do any journalism. Some embittered people working in the Minister's office that pretended they are loyal to the Minister because they can speak Hausa just sent the details of last minute communications between the Ethiopian Airlines and that of the Minister to him. The same thing happened when a telex message of the payment by NEMA to MaxAir instructing CBN to release money was posted online. Anywhere you find them in government offices they are the Intelligence representatives of their people in that unit.

David, Rufai and Sahara news are not suffering from national scepticism but are fighting psychological warfare based on propaganda.

The Minister made mistake by making arrangement with Ethiopian Airlines to bring the plane while there is a Court case on ground . Painting and returning to Ethiopia is not news as well.

Kukutenla:
Look at all the rubbish you wrote just to defend corruption.
You're here supporting a live scam right under our noses.
Can you explain the purpose of bringing the plane to Nigeria only to take it back after 24hrs?
Is that part of leasing agreement or what?
Some of you need to start using your brains

Chamber10:
Everyone is not an illiterate. Oya tell us more about this "sharing of planes" and where the plane is heading to after less than just 24 hours in Nigeria.

mk3jax:
Why do all think abroad is everything? I lived and worked in Europe for 8 years working in several countries including the UK as a professional engineer. I got tired of Europe, moved back to Nigeria and doing like 3-4 times better than I was living in Europe.

Just to let you know, the security guard in the company I worked for while in Aberdeen was a Nigerian with MSc Oil and Gas from Robert Gordon University. The kitchen staff was filled with Nigerians with various UK masters degree. I even met a LUTH trained medical doctor washing plate in London back in 2011 and advised him to go back home. The point is, abroad is not as sweet as you all paint it to be.

Its better you encourage him to work hard on his career or business interest since he has decided not to travel.

Coolabbie:
Tinubu will NEVER rule this country.
All the prophecies said something will happen to prevent it.
I trust you, Lord

Oseniwaje:
With all due respect sir. Someone of your class should have a very renowned NGO that will be recorganized around the continent to give back to the Nigeria you've benefited somuch from. Bill Gate comes to mind.

SpyChild:
your reality is different from mine, if you doubt, let’s see our profiles on LinkedIn or other media before we proceed to interact physically, so you will really understand that if that’s your perception, then that’s what you are gonna get.

Father4all:
you don't know anything my friend the Monarch has absolute power. He can even remove the prime minister Who is the prime minister sef? A person that has voted for.

Gajagojo:
Your first paragraph is petty.
Your last paragraph is self contradictory and illogical.
Overall it is clear that you do not know what you are talking about.
The summary is that today The monarch has no power to grant pardon. None whatsoever. The power resides in Ministers and the role of the Monarch is CEREMONIAL:to announce a pardon following ADVICE from a minister.This ADVICE is a euphemism. He has no choice but to make an announcement once ADVISED. If you have ever lived in the UK you would understand

Islie:
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2023/05/organ-harvest-king-charles-may-pardon-ekweremadu-lawyer/

Jokerman:
Put things in place before you remove fuel subsidy.

Estello:
https://sunnewsonline.com/ousmane-yara-opens-up-on-tinubu-alpha-conde-guinea/

Mrwhite09:
I am living like i dont have a working immune system, i fall sick regularly like every week. last week i was on malaria drugs and antibiotic, i havent finished it then again yesterday i fall sick again nd they inject me with another malaria drug and give me another antibiotic.

i am tired of taking these poisons i feel like they hv started affecting my liver, i am very vulnerable to viruses and bacterias whenever a person cough to my face the following day i will fall sick.

i dont have hiv as i did the test several times all negative, but i suspect i have cancer cux of the presence of a swollen lymph node on my neck. guys im truly tired and depressed i cant hustle normally because of my condition please if you know anything that can boost my immunity tell me. because of my condition i know a lots of antibiotics like cipro,amoxyl,doxycline,clarithromycin,azithromycin e.t.c i dont know why these doctors never get tired of prescribing these drugs to me. i live constanly with a stomach discomfort, fever, flu, colds nd catarh there is no any known ulcer meds that i hvnt take in my life but i am still thesame. its depressing me nd making me suicidal. i dont need money from anyone i just need help from people that went through thesame situation or people that know of a solution.

There was a time someone cough on me i spent complete 2weeks sick.

SpyChild:
do it for your kids.

politicoNG:
https://twitter.com/DailyLoud/status/1645509892961185795?t=Yysah8E9u_mL4tsSpgKy_g&s=19[/quote]TheDailyLoud@gmail.com

lildush:
For the record. Am not after wat I will get from anyone.. I dnt operate the Nigerian economy. I operate the economy of heaven. Am after anything dat will make the country better for everyone. Tinubu is a criminal. He may have ruled over Lagos for 8yrs. Den no body knows much about him. Nigeria is a bigger stage. It's unfortunate for him. He tot it's business as usual. He tot people will not dig deep into his life. If he had known all dis will happen. Trust me he will not contest. Ur blind to say Muslim/Muslim ticket should not matter. Nigeria is still a baby in democracy. Muslim Muslim ticket is not good for the christains.. look at the deputy.. a Boko Haram leader. Waiting to take power from tinubu by huck or by crock.. you don't have eyes to see wat is going on. Ur just supporting tinubu blindly. Do u know how much tinubu spent to get that certificate? If get into office. he will replace all the billions of dollars first and even more. Before thinking of how to turn Nigeria into his personal business. Like he did in Lagos. Any man who have ever don drugs. Can support any oda crime. Like thuggery. Armed robbery. Bribery. Prostitution. Etc. U name it. This country will be lawless. With tinubu. See wat happened in Lagos election. Thugs were beating people up.and the police were watching. Doing nothing. Y ? Because the master have paid Dem off. Even the commissioner of police came out on tv to say MC OLUMO was just joking about all wat he said. That if ur Igbo. U should go back home.. just imagine? Is dis the kind of government u want? Tinubu have this mentality dat everything is for sale. That is a corrupt persons mentality..he is a thug. Not fit to be president. He is old and sick . He have a very dirty past. Maybe present. Cos once u start doing drugs. U hardly stop. He still have contacts. If not we're does he gets the billions of dollars he is spending to bribe people? Man u need to wake up ooo. Look beyond wat u see. Stop supporting evil.. thank u

lildush:
U can support him if u want.. I use to support him wen I knew nothing or less about him. But Eva since I got more details about him. My brother I wash my hands. I can't support evil. Drug case is not his only crime. Wat about forging certificate. Age. Bribery. Corruption. And many more. Even his name is fake.. look at his deputy. A leader of Boko Haram. Wat is dere to support in persons with such character s? Tell me pls. I await your response ASAP

lildush:
Tell Dem. Dey don't know. If tinubu comes in. He will loot wat is left of Nigeria. Nigerians will suffer home and abroad. No country will want to do business with a drugie... Dnt forget we import almost everything... 😭😭😭😭