₦airaland Forum

Saipro:
Indeed. You're quite correct. However, above all outcomes you might seek, bear your own health and safety in mind. The batteries have one foot in the grave, not you.

Funny comment.
Safety is important. I am not convinced that an over charge lasting an hour would result in an explosion.
Many people here have deliberately shorted batteries and they did not explode.
At the end of the day we all do what we find comfortable.

Saipro:
There are lots of reasons postulated for the positive/negative terminal batteries failing earlier but the truth is, many at times, for no discernably obvious reason, they simply fail. Just like that.

I have great faith in desulphators as I have used a few with testimonies (Abunafiu is aware of this) but the issue of equalizing sealed lead acid batteries/AGM batteries ......
.... at best, one would be killing the batteries faster (shortened lifespan/cycle life). Note that the risk of explosions become real when equalizing AGM batteries. A suitable alternative might be holding the absorb (or bulk voltage for those which have different+higher bulk voltage) for many hours. Both safe and effective.

Oops, I've said more than intended

Thank you for your feedback. Like I said an instructor that teaches the class suggested it. I will try it. Granted for less than 1 hour. Another suggestion that I saw was to increase the float voltage by a few volts for a few days.
It is all experimentation. If it works we look like geniuses, if it does not we look like goats.

The batteries have one foot in the grave so why not?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbx30d-E1sM

abunafiu:
Thank sir@ chris81964. The inverters in question are the popular indian brands we all know. The battery used are 200ah of the same indian brand name.
Yes most of these clients deplete their bank up to 100% dod. The issue now is most of the inverters have battery low voltage alarm usually at 11.0V and wt this level of discharge a significant number cycle life is lost. How come its only one battery that suffers this ill fate?

most installers are faced with same problem. let's discuss

I don't do the Indian brands. So I am not familiar with them and can't give a qualified opinion. The reason why they list cycle uses on batteries is so that you know the maximum and minimum voltage you can charge the batteries to. When they are not charged properly sulfation occurs and there is no particular manner in which it occurs. Differences in tightness of your lug, distance of battery to the charge source, imperfections in the battery can be the reason why one fails before the other.

I attended a class over the weekend and the instructor told us that you can equalize your sealed batteries. Give that a try and see if it will bring it back. At 12 Volts your battery is flat. It is beyond flat at 11 volts. You might want to set the alarm for 11.5 Volts.

Run the equalization and get a desulfator. The instructor swore by them. If the batteries are not too far gone you might be able to rescue them with the suggestion that I made.

abunafiu:
I would like to throw this issue up for discussion.

I installed a number of 1.5kva 24v inverters(safepower, luminous, genius , sukham etc). After 10 months thereabout, the clients notified me of reduced number of hours of backup.
Preliminary checkes revealed a failing battery and in most cases, the most negative battery.

The same happens with INDIAN 48v inverters too.

Lets discuss the possible causes and solution.

My integrity has been badly affected as a result because I promised most of them 2yrs of useful battery life. The most annoying part is most clients are my senior colleagues at work...u all know what it means.

attn: juo, richmon74, chris81964, Konnektions146, Earthrealm, c0ogumo and every other knowledgeable person .

Accept my sympathies.
1. How did you size the battery bank?
2. What size chargers do the inverters have?
3. Salam12 has asked the other questions that are relevant.
Lead acid batteries don't like being completely discharged. The sealed batteries need to see 28.5 to 29 V (on 24V) daily during the charge routine. With a small charger and a depleted battery bank you batteries will not see that.

shithapuns:
@barezzi...pls whats the make of ur CC, I like the in and out voltage/amp info display

It is the Outback FM. There is a Chinese clone of the Outback called the Fangpusun FM.

ibrodex:
Thanks for your reply so far. 1500 watts is an estimated figure based on the following.

7 standing fans with an estimated power of 90W ==== 630W
27 energy saving lights 15W each. =============405W
2LED TVs of 110W each =================== 220W
Total ============================== 1255 W

I rounded it up to 1500W.

Note. This figures were obtained from the surgery I did for a prospective client.

Projected time of use is 12hr.

Needed to enlighten the client before he invest in it.
He actually saw me using inverter in my apartment and since then he has been on my neck,though I did mine myself but he's on my neck and I needed to advise him and send him a quote. The quote will be based on with solar and without solar panels.

Your candid advise is highly appreciated.

I am not sure everything will be on at the same time for twelve hours. Multiply your watts by the number of hours you intend to run them for. That will give you your watts hours. Divide Watt hours by System voltage. That will give you the AH s you use. Your battery bank has to be at least double that number. Divide the same Watt hours by 5 to determine the panel watts.
Good luck

ibrodex:
Hello guys,
I'd like to know the number of solar panels in terms of wattage that can power a total load of 1500W on a 3000W inverter with a minimum of 4 200AH batteries connected in series and then parceled to get 24V 400AH.

How did you get 1500 watts. Is that your peak load?
To calculate the panels you need the total Watt hours you use. Divide that number by 5 that will give you the watts you need.
The same watts hours divided by 24 will give you the amp hours you use.

scobyy2007:
Time (Hrs) = (Bv * Bc * EoI)/Load


Bv = Battery Voltage (eg 12V)

Bc = Battery Capacity (eg 200ah)

EoI = Efficiency of Inverter (minimum is 0.6 some could be 0.8, please contact your supplier)

Load = Total load of all appliances in watts (eg 34 + 50W)

Time (hrs) = (12*200*0.6)/84W

Time (hrs) = approx 17hrs (for a total load of 84W)

Take each item and multiply by the number of hours you intend to run them for. Add up everything and divide by 12 that will tell you how many AH you are using. To calculate how long it will last you can use many of available online calculators.

Im2Busy2Bother:
Costly

Thank you.

coderXO:
Funny man. I doubt you had a Mercedes in the 80s. People that had Mercedes in the 80s are generally not on NL today peddling goods.

You are even funnier.

Marketing 101. Nairaland is a free medium to promote yourself. There are over 1.5 million members. This subject / topic has had over 129000 views. I or any smart person would be stupid to ignore Nairaland. We are looking for people who make the right buying decision. ( I don't believe a simple comment needs explaining, but I will help you comprehend what I meant). People like those who in the 80's bought the MB instead of the Daewoo.

Your present circumstance should not be a hindrance / obstacle to your future destination. It is 10:16 am where I am and we can continue to banter back and forth if it makes you feel extra special. I have the rest of the morning.

coderXO:
You might check on this thread for those that like prag.

That your Victron altogether price is still on the high side, prag or no prag.

Thank you for your opinion. I am sure there are others who share it as well as those who don't. If what you seek is another commodity then this is not the product for you. You will be better served by your Prag and Luminous. We want those who in the 80 s purchased the Mercedes 200 and not those who purchased the shinny Daewoo Racer.

coderXO:
It's a matter of efficiency and quality.

I see respected brands like Prag and Xantrex in the 5kVA range for much less than that.

I don't know o...

You might want to read my original post again. Prag is a respected brand? Where? Xantrex is known but not the first choice in the off grid world.
That price included batteries, four solar panels, a roof rack a charge controller, a Victron inverter and an installation kit.
I will like to see a 5 Kva Xantrex at that price with all that included. I will be the first to buy.

coderXO:
Absolutely not.

FYI that reads 800VA-5kVA.

If it's the 5kVA inverter, perhaps. But it's still high.

Inverter; 200k tops
Batteries; 50k x 2
Charge controller; 40k max
Panel; 50k;

Thank you for your comment. The link is correct. That Victron model goes from 800 VA to 5 Kva. The 5 Kva unit alone retails for over N500k in Nigeria. Some Inverters are more equal than others. Victron commands a higher price than SMA in Europe. That says something does it not.

Will you pay N630k for an 800VA Victron, inverter, two 200 AH Hoppecke 6 V batteries, Four 100 Watt panel, one 30 amp charge controller, a roof rack and an installation kit?

Let me know your thoughts.

http://www.victronenergy.com/inverters-chargers/multiplus-12v-24v-48v-800va-3kva

Will you pay N630k for an 800VA Victron, inverter, two 200 AH Hoppecke 6 V batteries, Four 100 Watt panel, one 30 amp charge controller, a roof rack and an installation kit?

Let me know your thoughts.

http://www.victronenergy.com/inverters-chargers/multiplus-12v-24v-48v-800va-3kva

Will you pay N630k for an 800VA Victron, inverter, two 200 AH Hoppecke 6 V batteries, one 250 Watt panel, one 30 amp charge controller, a roof rack and assorted cables?
Let me know your thoughts.
http://www.victronenergy.com/inverters-chargers/multiplus-12v-24v-48v-800va-3kva

Will you pay N630k for an 800VA Victron, inverter, two 200 AH Hoppecke 6 V batteries, Four 100 Watt panel, one 30 amp charge controller, a roof rack and an installation kit?
Let me know your thoughts.
http://www.victronenergy.com/inverters-chargers/multiplus-12v-24v-48v-800va-3kva

coderXO:
Before all of you start making claims and charges perhaps you might ask the lady what appliances they are running and other related factors within their home.

This so-called professional is not a far cry from anyone else here who claims to be a professional.

This ain't rocket science please.

You are all professionals by the virtue of calling yourselves professionals.

Augustbreak:
Do you know where I stay?how I'm I supposed to know the guy is not a professional?quit the rudeness.He Installed a CCTV for us and adviced we should install solar as well.Ours is just to pay him we don't know anyoelse to do it around here.He didnt Install any charge controller with the solar.He said there is no need that the solar is connected directly with the battery.I don't know the capacity of the panel.our usage is A 42" tv,home theatre,3 rechargable fans,energy saving buls.

Augustbreak:
Do you know where I stay?how I'm I supposed to know the guy is not a professional?quit the rudeness.He Installed a CCTV for us and adviced we should install solar as well.Ours is just to pay him we don't know anyoelse to do it around here.He didnt Install any charge controller with the solar.He said there is no need that the solar is connected directly with the battery.I don't know the capacity of the panel.our usage is A 42" tv,home theatre,3 rechargable fans,energy saving buls.

I don't need to know where you stay. Ignorance is not an excuse. You are spending the money you should have done some research. Do you go to a foot doctor and decide to get heart surgery? You don't. A CCTV is not a solar power person.

I am not being rude I am being factual. You are asking people who know to give you free advice. Some humble pie will come with it.
No charge controller? The batteries will be drained by your panels on low or no light conditions. How will the charge be managed to your batteries? Your usage is moderate. You need to invest in a controller. Ask the guy what size panels he installed for you.
Plan to spend money and have a professional correct the crappy / shi**y work that was done by your installer.

jerrygome:
Which make be that sir?

Manufactured by TBB Power. Also by Rich Electric

Augustbreak:
please gurus in the house,help.We just Inatallwd an Inverter with 2solar panel and two batteris last week.Unfortunately,the back up time doesn't last long ,maximum of 30min.The inverter is a 2.4kva and the batteries,one is 200Ah and the second is 100Ah.These batteries are not even charging with the solar.We have been using gen and phcn to charge them.Even if u charge through out the night,we still get the same result.After calling the istaller for sevwral days,he just came to rectify the solar,that we will still need at least two more solar panel to caarge the batteries.Im already fed up.

I don't want to rub salt on an open wound. You got exactly what you paid for. You are asking people who you should have paid money for a professional installation to correct a problem someone else created.
1. The battery issue has been addressed
2. What capacity panels do you have. How many watts?
3. What charge controller do you have?
4. What capacity charger does your inverter have?
5. What is your usage?

earthrealm:
SRY, I MUST HV BEEN mis interpreted, i didnt say such inverters dont exist, i meant they arent common...or dont come cheap.
most newbies are discouraged from entering the inverter/solar world cos of cost, by throwing the high end inverters in thier faces...we tend to discourage n chase them away.
i believe newbies could start with low end but ok systems and them upgrade as thier knowledge increases........
i started with a locally built stabilizer cum inverter....later upgraded to the qoaxing inverter, that i bought 13k....before i moved to luminous/prag etc...low end inverters but still ok for my pockets n needs ...
the solar/inverter system i setup at the village cost about 400k, {even at that most of the people in the village scamper away after showing interest when i mention the amount], and its 22 months old.......12v x 2 x 200ah luminous batts, 1.5kva luminous inverter, and morningstar 45amp cc...........coincidentally it was the mS cc THAT KICKED THE BUCKET last month.....
overall, the system is simple, but efficient, and my folks in the village are the envy of all....enjoying 24/7 power supply, @least my aged mum is able to chill her soups n food items in the fridge, charge thier phones, tv, fans etc........n i didnt hv to break the bank for it.
some other richer folks r in my village, but they run noisy fuel guzzling regular mainataince required generators...

Apologies are not needed. I guess we live in a society where items are disposable. If I buy an inverter to replace or repair it very year or two is it really cheap. I give the example of the Daewoo Racer and the Mercedes Benz 200 from the 80's. They both served as transportation but guess which one of the two you can still find on the road today? My inverter should be a one time purchase. I should not have to be replacing it.
Get it right the first time.

earthrealm:
prag all the way!!!...4kw 24v prag is abt 140k, more functions than luminous inverter.
you cud try luminous is ur pepper small.............but since ur batt is 2v 500amphr...u need beta inverter that can crank out 50amps to 70amps.
no 12v inverter is capable of that except mayve the american made inverters...ur best bet is going up to 24v................thats the wahala with the 2v batts.....they r not for thin wallets

I have 12V Inverters that crank out 60 amps and they are not American

Im2Busy2Bother:
Buyer’s Nationality:

China
Seller:

Must Power Limited

Seller Website:

www.mustups.com

Seller Address:
Bldg.D, Huachangda Industrial area, Hangcheng Road, Xixiang
Town,Baoan District., Shenzhen, Guangdong, NO.467, National
Highway 107, China
Initial contact with the supplier:
Online Supplier Directory
Type of product(s) being purchased:
Inverter/Charger, Solar inverter
Value of the Purchase Order when the incident occurred:
6,001 to 12,000 USD
Destination market of order in question:
Nigeria

Type of Complaint(s):

lack of labor, scams & other unethical activities
Stage of relationship with the supplier at the time of the
incident:

Order #3-5

User Experience:

After buying some limited sample inverters from this seller in
2013, we decided to start full commercial orders in 2014.
We ordered 2 different products with total cost of about USD
10,000.
In the process of selling the first batch or the commercial order
we started receiving complaints of malfunctions and faults from
customers. We even found a unit of one of the 2 products did
not work at all right at the time of installation despite having no
sign of physical damage or ingress of any liquid or fluid.
Soon, we realized we were faced with a high failure rate of 10%
which reached a peak of about 15% by the time all the units had
been sold for each of the 2 products.
We complained to Tina Yuan who was our sales contact using
email (musta@mustups.com) and by phone (+86 13420968535,
+86 189 4872 0962) and by whatsapp at different times but
despite her promises nothing was done to address the problem.
Several emails were sent to Tina and to the sales team mailing
list and most of the emails were not replied.
At a point Tina admitted they have received similar complaints
from other resellers about the failures of the control board in one
of the products which usually resulted in this particular product
not accepting mains/utility power for battery charging or bypass
operation. She indicated she will arrange for replacement boards
to be shipped to us but failed to do so.
The last complaint was made to Tina during the last 2015
Intersolar event and she asked me to send complaint again by
whatsapp which I followed up with an email but she did not
reply to any of these.
I informed her I will use all means to report to relevant agencies
or authorities about this dumping of poor quality products
without necessary support by MUST and the effect this will have
on their brand image but still there was no response.
Every attempt to contact the senior or executive management of
Must Power was also not successful which seems to be
deliberate to shield the company from taking responsibilities.

User Recommendations:

I learned that you must not be deceived by Chinese companies
that pose as manufacturers but lack real technical support for
their products. They may have good website and even showcase
products at global industry events.
I learned that Must Power does not seem to have any strong
technical team as we were never handed over to a technical
team to resolve the problems.
I advise other buyers to beware of this seller as they do not
support their products. They are interested only in selling and
collecting payments.
This seller appears to be trading company that does some basic
assembly of generic components with little value addition other
than packaging.
If you must deal with this company make sure you have a strong
legally binding contract to protect you from potenutial losses due
to product failures. Ensure you secure a 3 years warranty for the
products at the minimum.
Ensure you have information and necessary contacts of their E-
level personnel.


Source: www.supplierblacklist.com/2015/06/23/must-power-limited/

I had a bad experience with them as well. Another major reseller in Lagos has a more than 15% return rate on the MUST product in Nigeria. I purchased 5 charge controllers from them and they all failed within a month. They asked for and I sent a picture of the screen showing the error code. They stopped responding to my email.
I have stopped buying these mass produced disposable inverters and controllers.

c0ogumo:
Chris, Is that a typo on your end or did he actually installed 7 batteries because the number "7" is an odd number. Do you mean 8 batteries? Or 6 batteries

No Typo. There is so much scary stuff out there.

An installer I met earlier this year bragged about an installation he did for a customer in the east. He connected 7 batteries for a customer's 24 volt inverter. It has been working for over 6 months and the customer is happy.
He wanted to do installations for me.

coderXO:
Yes I know these, however I don't think 1000W can handle the startup surge needed for a refrigerator.

What is the crest or surge factor of your inverter

coderXO:
For now, I pretty much only need it to charge my laptop, and just watch TV. Never more than 2 hours each time.

Maybe later I might go up to 2.5 or 3.5kva but for now it is not needed.

If anything, I need more AH than Kva.

1000 watts is a lot. More than enough to meet refrigeration, lighting,TV and your laptop.
Calculating your battery bank. laptop 60 watts x how many hours. TV 180 watts x how many hours. Total watt hours / 12 volts. That is how many amp hours you use.

coderXO:
Bought a Leoch 100AH battery and 1000w inverter.

Best decision I've made in a while.

In my neighborhood where there is absolutely no power, this purchase has cut my petrol usage by 50%.

How did you arrive at the decision to purchase 1000 watts and 100 AH? What do you intend to power and for how long?
Congratulations on your purchase.

Hello from the Nigerian Alternative Energy Expo in Abuja

Robby2367:
i just received my Mercury inverter and I plugged it to power but didn't come on. Do I need to connect the battery before it come?.

Bros if you are asking that question, I would strongly suggest that you hand over the installation to a professional.
The battery need to be connected for it to work. There are inverters that need PV and or AC power to work. Your Mercury is not that type.