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 Christianity Etc › Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 8:55pm On Dec 11, 2019 |
Barristter07:Read Isaiah 44:24 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 8:55pm On Dec 11, 2019 |
CAPTIVATOR:answer my question in Isaiah 44 don't escape. The Father and the Spirit know the hour. Jesus is in a different form compared to the two. He did it for humanity. The Father and Spirit have no human side. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 8:52pm On Dec 11, 2019 |
CAPTIVATOR:You always use wrong assumptions. They are different I agree and I even explained to you how this is the case citing that the Father is in heaven today whilst the Spirit is with us. You are straw-clutching my great guy. The reason why the Spirit knows is because He knows the secrets of the Father so I am saying to you that Jesus did not need to declare that the Spirit also knows. It's just like saying you and your spirit know about a secret privy to only you. The difference between you and God is that the spirit and soul and body are enclosed in one in you whilst with God they are different personalities. Read Isaiah 44:24 and tell mme if God lied. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 8:33pm On Dec 11, 2019 |
CAPTIVATOR:the baffling thing is that you are misinterpreting my statement. Okay ignore every notion in your head and settle it that there are 3 persons functioning in a manner such that one cannot function without the others. You are also implying that the lack of mention of the spirit implies that he isn't involved. Perhaps God was lying when He said, "Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;" Isaiah 44:24 Was God lying when He said this because all through scriptures its clear that God made the world along with the Word and Spirit. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 12:41am On Dec 11, 2019 |
CAPTIVATOR:No what I said is that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. You are using the way it applies to humans in understanding how it applies to God. I just gave you an example that the Holy Spirit could be on earth whilst the Father is in heaven unlike how it applies to humans. Now the only one that has a human side to him is Jesus and that was because of redemptiom/the fall of man. The Holyspirit has no human side and the Father has no human side. So if Jesus says that only the Father knows the time, the Spirit automatically knows the time even if it is not mentioned explicitly. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 12:35am On Dec 11, 2019 |
CAPTIVATOR:Human worship doesnt make the man God, its idolatry. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 8:33pm On Dec 10, 2019 |
CAPTIVATOR:They are different persons but have a common essence. That scripture compares man/spirit of man to God/Spirit of God. Man reflects the reality of the triune nature of God but not totally. In the case of man the spirit, soul and body are all enclosed in one being but in the case of God the Father and the Word can be in heaven whereas His Spirit is on the earth but one cannot work solely without the intervention of the other. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 8:10pm On Dec 10, 2019*. Modified: 8:36pm On Dec 10, 2019 |
CAPTIVATOR:Claiming that he must be either man or divine spirit but not both would not hold water if not substantiated with scriptures. Oh are you saying the bible doesnt mention that Thomas placed his finger into his palm and felt the hole that was created when Jesus' palms was pierced? This happening showed his humanity. He was just as human as he was divine in revelations because there was no change in his state between the encounter with Thomas and that time. Is NWT now unreliable that you had to quote KJV? 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 7:47pm On Dec 10, 2019*. Modified: 8:37pm On Dec 10, 2019 |
CAPTIVATOR:Not an issue for me at all because Thomas calls him my lord and my God and he didn't shut Thomas' mouth at all. I'll say it again. God will never sanction the worship of any entity other than God. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 7:42pm On Dec 10, 2019 |
CAPTIVATOR:Father, Son and Spirit are three different persons but are essentially one. The Father would not be able to carry out His role as God without the role of the Word and the Spirit. The bible calls the Holy Spirit the Spirit of the Christ. They are three inseperable entities each having their seperate identities notwithstanding. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 7:50am On Dec 10, 2019*. Modified: 8:51am On Dec 10, 2019 |
CAPTIVATOR:If Jesus said "only the Father knows" that statement does not preclude the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit is the spirit of the Father. That scripture reads "Which man knows the things of man apart from the spirit of the man; the same way no one knows the the things of God apart from the Spirit of God" (paraphrased) If a man has a secret that no one else knows, by the sentiment of the above scripture we can say that man alone knows his secret and his spirit equally knows his secret but these are not two persons but one person. In fact when you say only the man knows the secret you don't need to say the man's spirit knows the secret also. Its already implied because the man's spirit knows everything about the man. If Jesus said only the Father knows the hour, He doesn't need to mention the Spirit seperately. It is implied by reason of the fact that the Spirit of God has access to the secrets of the Father. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 6:36am On Dec 10, 2019 |
CAPTIVATOR:Jesus is spirit, soul and body existing as one just like you and me. Difference is that he has a glorified body. After the resurrection, he asked Thomas to touch his palm and Thomas in doing so could feel the hole with which his arm was pierced. It was that same way he was taken up to heaven. You quoted Revelations 3:9 "Look! I will make those from the synagogue of Satan who say they are Jews yet are not, but are lying—look! I will make them come and bow before your feet and make them know that I have loved you." (NWT) You can see that the version that you trust does not mention "worship". In fact if you look up most of the translations no mention of "worship" is made. Good morning! 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 12:58am On Dec 10, 2019 |
CAPTIVATOR:Where does Jesus say that humans should be worshipped? 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 12:21am On Dec 10, 2019 |
CAPTIVATOR:He had to take up the nature of man because of the redemptive work he had to do. He is a human with a glorified body but also God. He is a spirit being but with a glorified body. If he wasn't God, it would be sinful to worship Him but even God declares, "let the angels worship Him" 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 12:06am On Dec 10, 2019 |
CAPTIVATOR: Jesus has a God because He is human and divine at the same time. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 10:08pm On Dec 09, 2019 |
Janosky:Jesus is human i.e. has a human body (glorified body) and divine i.e. God simultaneously. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 10:05pm On Dec 09, 2019 |
CAPTIVATOR:That's why I said my guess is that HE KNOWS. I am actually agreeing not disagreeing. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 9:01pm On Dec 09, 2019 |
Janosky:No sir. I never based Jesus' divinity on the use of Theon and Theos. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 8:26pm On Dec 09, 2019 |
Janosky:Wrong! The greeks had a pluralistic concept about "God" so saying that Theon was used because they thought Paul was "God" is quite wrong. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 8:19pm On Dec 09, 2019 |
CAPTIVATOR:Use of "a" many a times is discretionary because in translating words from one language to another such problems are commonplace. The point I am making is that whether Theon or Theos is used is not enough justification that one exclusively is used for Almighty God. "Can Almighty have a God?" They are one in essence the same way the Spirit of God is essentialy divine yet from scriptures He seems to have a different personality from the Father. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 7:13pm On Dec 09, 2019 |
CAPTIVATOR:The bible did not mention explicitly. However we can make deductions from scriptures. My guess is that He does know but even then the bible says He only speaks what He is given to speak. (John 16:13) 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 1:34am On Dec 09, 2019*. Modified: 4:04am On Dec 09, 2019 |
Janosky:What you are requesting is unrealistic. The phrase "ton theon" or "Ho theos" was used in the new testament mostly in reference to Almighty God. That phrase "the God": rarely will you see it used in reference to other gods and so you think that because Ton theon was used in John1:1, the Word is not Almighty God. That's wrong. You people added "a" to the original text. It is not there. There are so many scriptures where theos is used for the Almighty God. In Acts 28:6 "a god" is used and the word is Theon. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: My Prayer For Trinitarians by chrmn1: 12:28am On Dec 09, 2019 |
Janosky:You are being fixated in implying that arche couldn't mean anything else. What about other words that arche could mean like ruler, principality? 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: My Prayer For Trinitarians by chrmn1: 10:44pm On Dec 08, 2019 |
Peacefullove:The greek word translated "beginning" in that passage is ARCH. Read Ephesians 1:21 and Colossians 2:10: "and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power." The word principality in these passages is the same word for beginning in Revelations 3:14. The word is ARCH could mean rule, beginning, first, principality, magistrate or power. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 9:55pm On Dec 08, 2019 |
Daejoyoung:God indeed is a spirit. But if the word of God declares that that God who is a Spirit also has a spirit that searches all things even the deep things of God, who am I to question its position? I would rather agree with that position than agree with a contrary position. See the passage below again: "For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God" (1 Cor 2:11) I am not interested in any council of Nicea but pointing out a concept that is very clear in the scriptures. You see in my previous post I did not say that the nature of man is same as the nature of God but that the concept of the triune nature of man is reflective of God's triune nature. For example the spirit of a man dwells inside man but the Spirit of God was called to dwell in the hearts of the Church today whilst the Father is in heaven. They are three personalities but one in essence. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 8:00pm On Dec 08, 2019 |
I so much believe that the triune nature of man as described in the passage below is reflective in a sense of the nature of God. He made us in His image 1: "Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thessalonians 5:23) The relationship between the Spirit of God to God Himself was likened to the relationship between the spirit of man and man himself in the passage below: "For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God" (1 Cor 2:11) 2: I believe that the relationship between Jesus/The Word and God Himself is akin to the relationship between the physical bodies of a man and the man himself. Look at the passage below: "...who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person..." (Hebrews 1:3) 3: I believe that the soul of man is reflective of the Father. See contrary to what we have been taught, the soul of man is more than mind, will, emotions. It is the veey seat of our personalities. Body---Son Spirit---Holy Spirit Soul---Father 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Please I Need Trinitarians To Explain Hebrews 1:1-3 For Me by chrmn1: 7:42pm On Dec 08, 2019 |
Janosky:You are very wrong. Theos and Theon are used many times for the almighty God in the entire scriptures. See Hupernikao's post in the Reno Omokri's thread on "Jesus is not God" You can go to that post in the above mentioned thread in the religion section and see the entire post for yourself but I have italicized a portion of his post below for your perusal. EXPLANATION OF JOHN 1:1 (Theon and Theos) Kindly read carefully. Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος (NLT) En archē ēn ho Logos kai ho Logos ēn pros ton Theon kai Theos ēn ho Logos (KJV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (KJV) THEON The word Theon occurred in the New Testament Scriptures 148 times. It simply means A deity, especially the supreme Divinity. Observe the following text usage of Theon Matthew 4:7 King James Version (KJV) 7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God (Theon) Matthew 5:8 King James Version (KJV) 8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God (Theon) John 1:18 King James Version (KJV) 18 No man hath seen God (Theon) at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. John 14:1 King James Version (KJV) 14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God (Theon), believe also in me. Acts 16:25 King James Version (KJV) 25 And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God (Theon): and the prisoners heard them. Hebrews 6:18 King James Version (KJV) 18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God (Theon) to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: The word Theon is a Noun - Accusative Masculine Singular. THEOS The word Theos occurred in the New Testament Scriptures 311 times. It is also simply translated as A deity, especially the supreme Divinity same as Theon. Observe the following text usage of Theos Matthew 1:23 King James Version (KJV) 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God (Theos) with us. Matthew 22:32 King James Version (KJV) 32 I am the God (Theos) of Abraham, and the God (Theos) of Isaac, and the God (Theos) of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. Mark 2:7 King James Version (KJV) 7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God (Theos) only? John 3:16 King James Version (KJV) 16 For God (Theos) so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Ephesians 4:6 King James Version (KJV) 6 One God (Theos) and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Observe that in the verses above God (almighty) was rendered as Theos and not Theon. It is also good to know that in the 311 times usage, Theos was referred to God almighty over 250 times without speaking about Jesus. For example in John 3:16 16 For God (Theos) so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. God here is the Father, Almighty, yet Theos was used. That means the Greek did not used Theon as a reserved name for God almighty but used Theos likewise. As seen above, Theos (311 times) was used as twice as Theon (148 times) to refer to God in the scriptures. The word Theos is a Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular Now to John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God (Theon), and the Word was God (Theos). (KJV) From above explanation it should be clear to you that Theos and Theon means God and not a variant of God. So, the question will be why was Theon and Theos used here. Let us do a little of word construction study. NOMINATIVE AND ACCUSATIVE WORD CASE Nominative: for the subject of a sentence: who or what is doing this? Accusative: for the direct object of a sentence: who or what is being The Nominative case is the case that contains the subject of a sentence. For beginners, it is normally in the beginning of a sentence. The Accusative case is the case that contains the direct object of a sentence. You probably won't see much of this except in the accusative pronouns. The accusative is what is receiving the action of the nominative. In English Language: The nominative case is the case used for a noun or pronoun which is the subject of a verb. For example: Mark eats cakes. (The noun Mark is the subject of the verb eats). The accusative case of a noun is the grammatical case used to mark the direct object of a transitive verb. For example, "they" in English is nominative; "them" is accusative. The sentence "They like them" shows the nominative case and accusative case working in conjunction using the same base word. Note that English mostly have this in pronouns: I, me, They, Them, he, him, she, her etc. In Greek Language There are five CASES in Greek, the nominative, genitive, dative, accusative, and vocative. In English, readers rely on the order in which words appear in a sentence to indicate the grammatical function of each word. In Ancient Greek, their case tells the reader the grammatical function of each word in the sentence. For example in Greek texts, Noun can be taken as Nominative or Accusative. Note also, In Ancient Greek, all nouns are classified according to grammatical gender (masculine, feminine, or neuter) and are used in a number (singular, dual, or plural). So that means we can have Noun - Accusative Masculine Singular and Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular. EXAMPLES OF WORDS χώρᾶ (Country) Nominative Singular χώρᾱ (chōra) country Accusative Singular χώρᾱν (chōran) country Luke 2:8 And there were in the same country (chora) shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. Luke 8:26 And they arrived at the country (choran) of the Gadarenes, which is over against Galilee. In Romans 4:11 the word righteousness was used twice. In English you may not understand suchme but in Greek construction is key. Romans 4:11 King James Version (KJV) 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: - a seal of the righteousness (dikaiosynēs) is Noun genitive feminine singular - that righteousness might. Righteousness (dikaiosynēn)here is Accusative feminine singular Hence, he used Righteousness which is the same word same meaning and explanation but grammar construction means you much use the word in its right case to make sense. Now, Back to our study. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God (Theon), and the Word was God (Theos). (KJV) Theon is Noun - Accusative Masculine Singular. Theos is Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular The original Greek construction of the last part of the verse is "and God (Theos) was the Word." That makes it nominative. The phrase “and the word was God (Theon)” the usage of God here is accusative to the word “The Word”. Hence the reason Theon was used. It would have made no sense using Theon as Theos together in the same sentences as such as one is accusative now and the other is nominative noun. It is like using they and they together, e.g They like They instead of they like them or themselves. As pointed out earlier do a word study on the usage of theos, you will see it was never used as something lesser than Theon. It is just sentence construction issue. Theon is not the only derivatives of Theos, there are others that were used in the scriptures. I will give you some here: 1 Like |
| Politics › Re: Ruga: List Of 11 States FG Approved For Herdsmen Settlement by chrmn1: 8:44pm On Jul 01, 2019 |
Seepayday:Deep words bro. Some people want to have Buhari steer the affairs of the state but are too naive to understand that there will be consequences. |
| Sports › Re: Nigeria Vs Burundi: AFCON 2019 (1 - 0) Full Time by chrmn1: 8:03pm On Jun 22, 2019 |
Akpeyi Awaziem Troost-Ekong Balogun Aina Ndidi Etebo Chukwueze Iwobi Musa Ighalo This should be our starting line up next match 6 Likes |
| Sports › Re: Nigeria Vs Burundi: AFCON 2019 (1 - 0) Full Time by chrmn1: 6:55pm On Jun 22, 2019 |
Final ball been terrible, first touch, composure in the final third lacking. Aina, Iwobi, Ndidi, Etebo have been the brighter lights. Central defense has been suspect, Mikel quite poor, Chukwueze selfish and killed lots of promising attacks. Onuachukwu poor. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Some Books That Inspired The World And Caused A Paradigm Shift by chrmn1(op): 8:38am On Jun 21, 2019 |
Moneyfem:Beautiful |
| Christianity Etc › Some Books That Inspired The World And Caused A Paradigm Shift by chrmn1(op): 4:56am On Jun 21, 2019 |
Growing up as a young christian, I came accross certain generation impacting texts. Yes we read good books from time to time but these ones stirred not only me but whole generations for Christ and I will be mentioning some of these in this thread in the hope that you will do the same. Final Quest by Rick Joyner Good Morning Holy Spirit by Benny Hinn Expect a Miracle: My Life and Ministry; an Autobiography by Oral Roberts Fire in his bones: The story of Benson Idahosa by Ruthanne Garlock God's Generals: The Revivalists by Roberts Liardon There are other ones of course but the purpose of this thread is for us to discuss books with similar impact in our present day. I admit that these seem a bit few and far between even though the number of books being published is at a record high. One wonders why this is the case but that's the point of this thread. Books that have changed the course of history in a genetational manner in the body of Christ today. Where are they? |
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. Were Greek gods immortal?