₦airaland Forum

give biafra and it will self destruct in 6 months. This is only one evidence

The whole Boko Haram mess will end only when Northern muslims admit what the problem is and tackle it. I remember at the beginning of the BH killings sometimes in 2011 there was a massive propaganda in d north that some BH members caught were Christians. This, at the time was to calm the minds of the many muslims who must have been questioning how their fellow muslims can be so evil in d name of God. Now, instead of admitting the religious error going on there in d north they started blaming everyone but themselves up to d point that they accused GEJ of sponsoring BH. Now GEJ is out of power, who is there to blame again?

Until Muslims stop leaving in denial, BH will continue to reign terror. The normal muslim believe that secular government should not rule them. It's one of the basic sharia principle. What is BH fighting for? the same anti secularism almost all muslims believe in. Why on earth will a normal human being give his daughter to be used for suicide bombing if not for ideological belief.


abeg make I stop for here, I don tire

hmmm

fromnigeria:
We are actually here for a case of impregnating my fiancee before tying the knot legally. That's where I am assuring that Never will it happen. I can't stop sayin it. It will NEVER EVER EVER EVER happen. Alright? By God's. Sufficient grace.
As for the general Christian life, your advice is good, everyone has to take heed lest he...

you remind me of Peter when Jesus told him he will deny him 3 times before the cock crows. Just pray for God's grace, thats all

she looks possessed

can't he simply sponsor a motion to make it a law that a serving govt official should not receive pension from a former govt job. If it's to hurriedly pass d CCT law now e go sabi do that one

pauladonis:
What you summarized here is actually the most sensible and correct perspective to view the matter...

You think churches are discriminatory now or just simply obeying God as is in your summary? Marriage is between 2 people and not 3... The Bible did not say, "And 3 shall come together and become one" or, "Can 3 walk together except they agree?" The miracle of marriage is that 2 people are joined together,

So, stop speaking or writing things before you think about it...

The mother and child are separate entity, having different DNA and blood types, the mother's vow is her vow and doesn't involve the unborn child in any way

Apina:
As I said, the child though being in the womb of his mother is a separate entity. The child has no knowledge of whatever his or her parents are up to or actively participates, its simple common sense. Because the child is in the mothers womb doesn't mean d child gets to have sex with his parents or are u saying otherwise?

you just shot youself in d foot with this ur response

captain247:
Is church wedding biblical?
When Jesus turn water into wine in that wedding in the Bible was it in synagogue or at the parents of the brides place?
In as much the church doesn't criticize you if you do only traditional marriage why criticizing the church for their stand against pregnancy before church wedding.
The church must not go bend in their laws just to please you. Every institution or organization has their rules and regulations to adhere to likely the church is no exception.
If you're pregnant knowing the church position why not opt for the easy way instead of making yourself to be condemned or ridicule by the church. Go for a traditional and full court wedding there after reception and even the church members will still attend.

what if the Church law goes against God's divine nature?

TheUmbra:
I was talking about prophet "Nathan's narrative" Not David's action, by the way which was ADULTERY AND MURDER and not fornication. You mustn't argue for the love of argument.

Prophet Nathan gave King David a narrative (story) of a poor man with just one lamb versus a rich man with many lambs. That was what inspired my own story. Understanding is key to any debate.




Please don't make me question your mental strength and intellectual integrity. Exodus 22 : 16 is about SEX BETWEEN UNMARRIED PEOPLE




You have yet again failed to pilot your reasoning into the realms of GOD's wisdom for compelling two unmarried fornicators who aren't engaged to marry. GOD was trying to teach HIS people that you must not commit the sin of fornication. If you do, you must marry her. Not banished from the gathering of HIS people, not cut from among HIS people, as you sanctimoniously opine.




The fact that GOD made a provision for them to be married and HE recognised their marriage, and that HE never ordained marriage, no matter how holy the couple may be to be stagged in the temple throws your fallacy out the window of common sense.



When you run out of point, it is far more honourable to stop typing and save yourself unnecessary embarrassment. How does this fit into GOD's word in Exodus 22 : 16. How does this fit into the lives of Mary and Joseph? That tradition is expected of maidens who claimed to be virgins as they go into matrimony. And it's subject to her would-be husband's discretion whether to declare her a virgin or not.




Double speech!

Just agree that churches and pastors requiring pregnancy test before conducting marriage in their churches missed the purpose of their calling.



Only the unrepentant sinner will not inherit GOD's Kingdom. For if we confess our sins to HIM , HE is faithful and just to forgive us and cleans of from all our iniquities. (1 john 1:9)



You must no abuse scripture and qoute it to accommodate your sanctimonious stance. You're quoting 1 Cor 5 where a whole church was proud of a member who was sleeping with his father's wife. A case of incest and Adultery. The "old laven of malice and wickedness". It was a call for repentance, and not just for the immoral incestuous man but for the whole church.



Indeed! You are not a sinner. Since the day you surrendered to JESUS, you have lived every day of every minute and of every second, down to this very day in complete holiness! You stink of hypocrisy, brother!




There's no law of GOD that gives a pastor or priest to officiate a marital bonding of a man and a woman.



Whatever kind of marriage one chooses as his or her marital preference, a pastor has no powers to affirm or revoke. The bride price doesn't belong to him, neither nor his church.



That people where deceived into thinking it is the priest/pastor who actually confirms a man and woman husband and wife doesn't mean the pastor or priest can employ extra-scriptural commands on the people because they elected to do a church wedding. The Pharisees who were priests and leaders suffered severe criticism from CHRIST when they commanded the people to observe certain seemingly pious act that had no scriptural support.



[s][/s]



You deceive yourself. You should have said "if every Christian that sins, including you and the pregnant unmarried woman refuse to repent then we should be kicked out of church.

As you granted yourself the chance of repentance, so does the unmarried pregnant woman deserves a chance of repentance. Not outright banishment or rejection as you suggest.

Now you can see how your hypocrisy stinks to the high heavens?




You mustn't continue in this shameless deceit. We all know that among many churches and Christian gatherings, once a member isn't wedded in a church, they're considered not really married by the church.





Spiritual advice can be given outside church wedding.



Not quite. A Christian can object to certain cultural practices that runs against his faith. He normally dialogues with the bride's father on such conflict of interests.




How shamelessly pathetic of you! You're trying to endorse a secular government interference in church spiritual procedures.

"God didn't give any procedure for xten wedding"

GOD has made it clear in several scriptural passages that a bride price be paid and the father of the bride gives his daughter out in marriage.

Never was a priest or pastor called into the procedure.

I think you're a willful liar who subvert scriptures to suit his own self-serving, hypocritical posture.

I'm done with you.

He is Jehovah's witness, so u shouldn't be surprised

701ecilana:
And i said, am not better than any. Why i mentioned myself is because he said, if pregnant ladies are denied marriage then every woman who has lost her virginty shdnt be wed too, then, i brought in my angle as a case study who have lost it before coming to Christ. So because am no more a Virgin even when i have repented, i shouldn't be wedded? This is my point, not because am better than anyone.

I also brought my tradition in to let you know that, even traditionally, sex outside marriage is frowned at.

Well, you guys shd go on encouraging fornication, when we meet the Lord, it shall be made clea lr which is right or wrong.

point out one instance, just one here where anybody has encouraged fornication. please I will be glad if u do

701ecilana:
How can God's grace cease when one becomes born again? Having a New spirit which comes from the new birth bestows God's grace on you.
I didn't say they won't be forgiven, read the post again. We sin everyday and ask for forgiveness, what am against is being brazen about it.

Let's note that God is the God of knowledge and by him all actions are weighed. Falling into sin is different from living in sin.

so in your imagination all unmarried christians that get pregnant are 'living in d sin of fornication' and they are happy that they committed fornication. That God has saved u from the sin of fornication doesn't mean others don't struggle with it. Open ur mind to the truth, read the gospel(by gospel I mean Matthew to John), understand Jesus and his teachings. I'm not saying the other books of the Bible are not inspired, but the message of Christ is redeeming. Also, I believe the other books of the Bible are to be understood in the context of the Gospel.

The sermon on the mount(Matt 5) is a good place to start. When I read Matt 5, I got a deep understanding of Christ. I understand u attend Living Faith, ryt?

701ecilana:
Analice got banned for a month for posting off topic.

Pls sir, leave Pastors/Priests out of this. My focus is not on them and how they interpret the scriptures. My focus is on believers who have received salvation, who ought to get transformed and be renewed in their souls and bodies, yet remain babes.

I am not better than any lady who gets pregnant outside of marriage, because what they did to get pregnant i once did. But my case is, now that i have knowledge and have received the light of the gospel, now that i know the significance of sex both outside or inside of marriage. Now that i know that my body carries Christ/the Holy Spirit about, Now that i know that my body (the Church) is a bride of Christ and him my groom, means i ought to preserve it, keep it clean for fellowship. I ought to be a living sacrifice, do we still know what that means?

You keep talking about the outcome, which is the pregnancy, but am focus on the act which resulted to it. And, am talking from the perspective of A BELIEVER who shd know better not an unbeliever in church.

I liken this to A BELIEVER who receives salvation, is taught the principles, the rudiments of the kingdom's ethics, culture, citizenship and all, understands them, but while at home with his/her folk, falls back into partaking in their temple worships to idols knowing so well that the food presented to him/her has been offered to idols, not only eats it, but brings it to church and insists that the brethren joins him/her in eating the food.
Even the Bible warns against it.

Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
1 Corinthians:10:21


In the case of Deut. 22 sir. To fully understand the premise, lets start reading from 21. It'll too long to quote out here.
This is talking about a girl going into marriage as a virgin, ,but is found disvirgined, the investigation then begins as to how it happened.

If she consented to formication both of them shd be stoned to death. If she cried out, but no one heard her, she shd be left alone (but note, no man will marry again). If she cried out and the man discovered, which is rape, the man will not willingly as you put it 'If the man is ready to pay her bride price' the man can not be ready to marry his rape victim, because its a very shameful scenario. He marries her whether he likes her or not. And that's why, no matter what happens, he can not divorce her. He is compelled to marry and keep her. Its not the same with the OP.

The Op is about people consenting to sex and getting pregnant as a result and thrusting their sin before the church for consolidation.

Going by the Deut. 22 you quoted from. Can you imagine a damsel getting pregnant outside of marriage, they kept doing it without being caught, she gets pregnant and has the temerity to go to the Synagogue demanding to be wed? Can she try that? She died the very moment she discovered she was pregnant, not the day she tried that stupidity.

Sir, talking about every single lady being tested for Virginity before being wedded if that's the case, i explained this.

Before i gave my life to Christ, i had lost my virginity. I cried my eyes out when i discovered the sacredness of my Virginity but it was gone, all i can do now is to remain celibate till i marry. But, now that i know what all this is about, if i return to fornication which cuts me both ways, (Shame on me)and gets pregnant in the process, then am making my body which is the Temple of God a den of thieves, Unclean to offer any reasonable sacrifice unto God.

Most of us do not even quite know what a den of thieves means.

And, i said again, that, in my tradition which has nothing to do with Christianity, a girl's bride price is not taken while she's pregnant. No marriage for her until she delivers the child, and when she does that, her bride price will be reduced because she has defiled the sanctity of marriage.

If a lady commits formication, of course no pastor or priest will know, no perimeter to judge that, as not all of us got born again as virgins, (that will be left for God who sees in secret) but getting pregnant and bringing the pregnancy to be wed is an affront.

Are u implying that once a person becomes 'born again' the grace of God's mercy upon them ceases that they cannot be forgiven when they sin?

701ecilana:
And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife.
Exodus:22:16

Bros, i can't see where it says she's pregnant. Okay fine, they marry. No one denies them marriage, but in my culture, as a girl i won't be married off because am pregnant, how then do i get to be wedded in church even if my church allows it? Traditional marriage holds more water as far as Living Faith is concerned, without the consent of the girl's parents, the Church wont consolidate any marriage. How do i get wedded since as a pregnant girl, my father won't accept my bride price?

She shd stay home, be delivered of the baby then marry.

Biko, hapu'm

why are u bringing your local tradition into this. We are talking Christianity u r talking native culture. I have also observed that you keep trying to justify yourself and your Church. Because u have lost your virginity you conveniently created Analice's law that states that you can do church wedding only if you days of fornication preceeds your day of being born again. Clap for yourself. I put it to you that you are no different from a repentant pregnant single woman.

701ecilana:
Deut 22:28 is a case of rape sir.
The Op says, a pregnant girl comes up to be wedded and not a man who rapes a girl and decides to marry her afterwards. As in the case of Scheme and Dina the daughter of Jacob.

Am totally against formication and you guys are trying to twists scriptures to justify it.

who is justifying fornication here? My dear you are no better that the Pharisees of old. If you lived in Jesus' time you would have accused Jesus of justifying adultery when he refused to condemn the woman caught in adultery

TheUmbra:
Analice107, you intermix adultery and fornication in your writeup.

I want you to understand the hypocrisy and double standard-ness of man. Fornication before marriage that didn't lead to pregnancy and fornication that resulted in pregnancy are the same sin of fornication. They're both guilty before GOD. Should the church penalise the woman with pregnancy while the other who probably is a more grievous fornicator escapes and go all the way wearing white gown, walking down the aisle with a hidden pile of immortality? Isn't it what CHRIST said about the Pharisees who pay much emphasis on the outside rather than the inside? Who like to wash their hands but the inside of them remains unclean?

If the church would demand pregnancy test as a condition for staging a church wedding, then it's more befitting and proper they conduct VIRGINITY TEST so they can be well assured the woman is pure and undefiled and not a fornicator.

Is there any sin grievous enough that can prevent a man or woman from approaching the Throne of Grace? Was GOD's directive in Exodus 22 : 16 not a solution aimed at remedying an ugly situation? GOD's will for man is redemption, to restore that which was broken or lost. Not to compound or destroy.

I tell you, christians are the greatest obstacle to salvation, not the unbelieving world. We have set barriers and standards against our brethren, barriers and standards we ourselves couldn't cross.

Even when there was little or no grace in the Mosaic era, GOD was mindful and made a way for fornicators to get married so that children may be born legitimately.

Again, you still fail to realise that the true marriage as ordained by GOD is the act where the father of the bride hands over his daughter to the bridegroom after he fulfills the requirements of dowry. The church wedding is only a blessing of some sort and not an act of matrimonial bonding. The bonding took place already at the traditional setting. A pastor or priest has no spiritual or physical authority to give out anyone in marriage or bond them in matrimony. That power remains the privilege of the father of the bride.

If a church wants to punish fornicators, it is within their right to do so, but denying a pregnant fornicator the right to marry in the church is foolishness. It has not solved the problem, rather it worsens it and even stigmatise the unborn baby.

Legalistic christians not only lack the HOLY SPIRIT, they also lack common sense.

I am not God, but the intelligence and insightfulness of your thoughts leave me with no other option than to proclaim u as saved. You are a good person indeed. I am sorry to say it, but what Analice has been posting here reeks of Phariseeism. It's so obvious but she just doesn't know it.

analice107:
this is my point. Fornication is evil, so should not be condoned. And I said, pregnancy is the fruit of fornication.

Another thing you shd note is that, many of us have lived without Christ before redemption, now that we are saved, we cannot become virgins any more, so if i want to marry, i shd not be denied wedding based on the fact that am no more a virgin.

But, if i, after redemption returns to sin and gets pregnant, it's actually a shame on my part because am either still a babe in Christ or do not understand what Christianity is about.

It's like me accepting Christ into my life, but when at home amongst my unbelieving family members, i join them in their idol worship all over again and brought to Church food sacrifice to that idol inviting my brethren to be part of it, claiming nothing is wrong with it.

Fornication which brings about pregnancy is likened to idol worship.

Are u implying that God doesn't forgive a ''redeemed'' christian that fornicates if he/she is truly repentant. If God forgives, who r u to judge

analice107:
Godbless you bro.

Now lets consider this within context. This passage my brother quoted is addressing rape cases whereby a girl gets pregnant as a result of being raped.

Remember, in the then world, no girl was to be seen pregnant without being married first, she'd be stoned, and the disgrace will be on her family. Case in point, Mary Mother of Jesus.

Let's now see what that passage says;

Deuteronomy 22:23-29

“Suppose a man is caught in a town having intercourse with a young woman who is engaged to someone else.

You are to take them outside the town and stone them to death.
She is to die because she did not cry out for help, although she was in a town, where she could have been heard. And the man is to die because he had intercourse with someone who was engaged.
In this way you will get rid of this evil.

If they are caught, what does that say? It's a taboo, and it's punishable by death.

If she cried out, she'd be free, but if she didn't, that says she consented to it so shd die.

Fornication is evil, that is what it means.


“Suppose a man out in the countryside rapes a young woman who is engaged to someone else.

Then only the man is to be put to death; nothing is to be done to the woman, because she has not committed a sin worthy of death.


This case is the same as when one man attacks another man and murders him.

The man raped the engaged woman in the countryside, and although she cried for help, there was no one to help her.


“Suppose a man is caught raping a young woman who is not engaged. He is to pay her father the bride price of fifty pieces of silver, and she is to become his wife, because he forced her to have intercourse with him. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

THE ABOVE IS WHAT WE SHD TALK ABOUT MORE.

Rape was seen as an abomination. If a girl ever gets raped, no other man will ever touch her, and a girl who remains unmarried then was a big Shame to the family. She'll be treated like a dirty rejected piece of shit. Even fellow women will ridicule her. Case in point, Dina Jacobs daughter.
The brothers knew the implication hence, took the drastic action of killing the guy who defiled their sister before marriage.

Now, if a girl gets raped, the man is forced to marry her and the man can not divorce her no matter what, because another man will never touch her.

This is not a pleasant union for the man or the man. The man is forced to marry his rape victim as punishment not pleasure.

You dey rape her leave her for who to marry? My friend, you go marry the girl whether you like am or not. This is the case here.

Formication is not rape. Fornication is when two consenting adults engages in sex and girl gets pregnant in the process. Normally she shd die, because she is polluting the land by bringing a polluted Seed which can not be a vessel unto God.

Sex happens before pregnancy is my point.

The text actually says a girl that is ENGAGED to a man and has intercourse with another man should be stoned because she did not cry for help. That is a different proposition from a case of two unengaged (or maybe engaged sef) couple having premarital sex.

While I will never ok fornication under any circumstance, I will never support denying pregnant intending couple the privilege of Church wedding. My stand is that if such restrictions must be imposed, it should extend to all non-virgins, pregnant or not. As matter of fact, there is no difference between a pregnant unmarried woman and a non pregnant unmarried woman who has had sex, even once. For both the pregnant and non pregnant have committed the same sin which is fornication.

Please, it is important to note that I have not justified fornication in any of my posts and I will never do it. Yes, fornication is a sin and should be avoided by a child of God

Omoluabi16:
some of you would get bored and start trying say nonsense. As a Christian you should know every sin has consequences. God forgave david but the child still died. Instead we should focus more on the root cause and try to prevent pregnancy before marriage. you can't expect a church wedding with your tummy protruding like hell.

is the protrusion the reason for denying such couples church wedding? does that mean a pregnant woman with a non protruded tummy can wed? Is pregnancy a sin?

analice107:
Hahahahahahahahaha.
I smell Catholic. If you don't commit the sin of fornication, how will you get pregnant?

I was waiting for you to bring up scriptures to back up your OP.

My friend, from my post I emphasized the fact that the sin a pregnant single has committed is fornication not pregnancy. Therefore, if they be denied marriage on account of being pregnant, then all christians that hv fornicated, even once should automatically disqualify from having their union solemnized in church.
If you read my op you would have seen some scriptural references. However, the craze for scriptural evidences to all common sense argument is one reason the Pharisees had issues with Christ. Christianity is a principle based religion, not a totally law based one. If u r a true christian, you really don't need bible quotes to make every decisions or even a pastor's opinion. Christianity is based on the principle of Love. Love doesn't judge, love forgives, love is just. Discriminating against people and condemning them because they have committed fornication is not love and is definitely not christian.

Deicide:
If the woman don get belle already watin be the need for marriage? Marriage abi wedding is overrated jare

it could be overrated but if u r a traditional christian u will certainly want to do it

Libo45:
Must the wedding be done in a church? If it's against their laws, honor their laws and jejely go to a court for statutory marriage, simple. We too like stress as Nigerians

what about those that see church wedding as sacrosanct?

our laws should be more proactive not reactive

It is becoming a trend in many churches to refuse marriage to intending couples on account of pregnancy. It has become a common practice to undertake a pregnancy test before joining a couple in most of these churches. Those couple whose result come out as positive are then deprived from getting wedded. This practice is ungodly, unbiblical, unchristian and dangerous. I will highlight my points in the following paragraphs

The nature of God and the nature of man are distinct. One of God's nature is that of mercy, hence we frequently say GOD IS MERCIFUL. Now, a couple that get's pregnant before marriage have obviously committed the sin of fornication. However, if they have asked for forgiveness from God, who is merciful, who is man to deny them the privilege of a Christian marriage

THE SIN IS FORNICATION, NOT PREGNANCY. Now, let us look at it this way, couple A and couple B r seeking to get married. pregnancy test is done. couple A's result comes out as negative while couple B's comes out as positive. couple B is denied marriage while couple A is given the nod. Now, assuming that couple A has engaged in sex, it means that couple B is denied marriage, not because they committed fornication, but because they got pregnant. This leads to the question, is the sin pregnancy or the fornication that led to the pregnancy. Since the obvious answer is that the fornication is the sin, couples A and B ought to be disqualified. If this is done, I wonder how many couples will qualify for marriage. Reminds me of the psalmist who wrote, 'if you O Lord will mark our guilt, who will stand'. In this case, if you O lord will mark our sin, who will qualify for marriage.


THE DANGERS OF ABORTION.
Abortion is a grave sin synonymous with murder. The bible says 'thou shall not kill'. In the new testament, Christ said, 'woe unto those that will cause one of this little ones to sin. it will be better for a mill stone to be tied around his neck while he is cast to the sea'.
A direct result of insisting on a negative pregnancy test before marriage is that many young couples, for shame of being exposed and denied 'church wedding' abort their prenancies and wait for their results to come out as negative before presenting themselves for marriage. Some parents even take their children to abortion clinics just because of the stigma and shame. Until the emphasis is shifted from discouraging prenancy to discouraging premarital sex, such premeditated murder of unborn children will continue.

In summary, marriage is a union between a man and a woman, ordained by God. The same God is merciful and admonishes us not to judge. As christians we should therefore desist from using man's fallen nature to reason things of God such as marriage

xcolanto:
Then it was GEJ in power! Trust buhari media center to work over time on blowing it out of proportion with their many handles thanks to lie Mohammed.

I concur

It seems we hv become numb to news of BH atrocities. This thread wud hv been up to 10pages 3yrs ago

YungJo207:
She looking sexy no doubt but for me ooo me personal me those her boobs disqualify her.

she's a mother of 2, what do u expect?

the woman fine but only her scatter scatter teeth naim spoil her looks

IamKashyBaby:


Ooh sure & some girls are liars if they will tell u never watch any p0rn clips

that means u go be fire for bed

IamKashyBaby:


Not bad for the ladies with small UKWU but for those who got big cracks , please tell them NOT to try it otherwise their school will look like some sort of Brazzers or Pornhub theater for audition

so women dey watch porn too. sotey u know brazzers and pornhub

the activities of BH is clearly under reported in this admin. It is clear there was a massive media propaganda against GEJ's govt