₦airaland Forum

ileobatojo: Well I guess the one 'good thing' about your technique is that you would be raising a 'true Nigerian'. One who will not do their job unless they are "motivated" with bribes. One who would have perfected the art of using bribery to get what they want. A true leader of tomorrow indeed...Good job....

motivation is not bribery....

when you give goodies to a worker to do what he's supposed to be doing, it's motivation. when you give goodies to a worker to do illegal stuff, then it's bribery.

i see nothing wrong in motivating my son to read harder or motivate him to complete house chores. kids are humans too. they want a little bit of extra to compensate the inconvenience.

if this method now translates to bribery(abusing a position of trust) to you then i cannot help you.

elampiro: I will give you the stat you need tomorrow (at dawn) if time permits. But just imagine you saying SAF doesn't play three midfielders?

stop embarrassing yourself.....
we are talking about the period between the community shield against city and the bolton game(when cleverley broke his foot).

in that period, it was strictly cleverley/anderson. carrick was on the bench against west brom and spurs, carrick wasn't even in the squad against arsenal and he only came on agsinst bolton to replace an injured cleverley.

we did not play a 3-man midfield in that period, enough of your fact distortion.

We have seen Anderson, Carrick, Fabio/Flectcher/Gibson etc played a three man midfield.

what has this gotta do with the argument? tell us one game united played a 3-man midfield in the period we are talking about.

Back to the City match. Jones and another young defender were introduced at City 2 United 0. Ferdinand were and Vidic were pulled out. I will explain in detail how this influence a game, just as it did that day.

jones and smalling are defenders....
i fail to see how they contributed anything towards the attack. cleverley playing in that midfield changed the momentum. he wrestled the midfield away from toure and barry by his crisp movement and one touch football.

you should argue only when you watch games...

elampiro: No, they gave lost matches after the injury. Sometimes it was Carrick that was sent in to rescue them. They failed us in some Carling cup and FA cup matches.

then mention the match anderson/cleverley 2-man midfield have lost in the history of man utd.

It will interest you to know Jones was also part of the success in the period they did well. Even in the match you put up their against City in the community Shield, Jones and another young defender Smalling/Evans were sent in for Vidic and Ferdinand which enabled a swifter release of balls from the back

hogwash!
cleverley was sent in at halftime and the tide of the game
changed from then on. toure and barry couldn't cope with the pass-n-move, one touch football united served that evening. it's nothing to do with the defenders - jones/smalling were defending, not attacking....

This buttress what I have been saying since. Lastly, Jones played in the midfield in some other matches while Evans and Smalling were behind. So, it was a whole different set up and not just a two players affair.

this is another lie,
before kevin davies broke cleverley's foot, he was the only one that partnered anderson in a 2-man midfield. phil jones played as a defender throughout that period bar the bolton game when he deputised for rafael at right back position.

like i said, you don't watch united!

It also goes back to what I said at first, you play games based on the materials available. Fitness, injuries, players qualities are all part oof the plan. Their are also intermittent hit/loss of forms by some players.

cleverley/anderson midfield have a 100% win record in the premier league! that's the fact - and we win games with them because the opposition cannot cope with fast transition of the ball.

how can anyone say united weren't a pass-n-move side that is similar to dortmund is ridiculous. you don't watch man utd. you only read dailymail. only anderson/cleverley are suited to the one touch football...

here's another evidence....

[img]http://teamwinning.files./2011/09/passing-move-pt-1-bolton.gif[/img]

[img]http://2.bp..com/-YuP0AUY0JO8/TqDXqwlsVxI/AAAAAAAAATI/q6M11fXVRXw/s640/short+passing+0.gif[/img]

elampiro: I watched United matches more than you do and I am very sure I became fan before you. Why did Anderson and Cleverly not continue their form? are they the first to be injured?

hahaha - you watch united games more than me? from where? from your armchair? please don't make me laugh. you know nothing deep about united apart from the nonsense articles you read on dailymail. you said you would rate de gea after the season...so what's your verdict? still shyte?

how many times have they played in the central midfield since the day cleverley got injured? check this stat, united have won every game they have played with cleverley/anderson axis in the midfield! it's only when fergie added carrick, giggs or jones to disrupt the tandem that united produce crap performances!

watch the movement of the ball....

https://i.minus.com/iAgm2Di9mDb6P.gif

[img]http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/25soeo3.jpg.gif[/img]

elampiro: Anderson and Cleverly only shone in about five or six matches what was the impression they would have even survived till December before they would have been clipped by EPL opponents?

those 5/6 games included city, arsenal and tottenham. 3 of the best top teams in england. like i said, you don't watch united enough to know what obtains....

Rememeber the way Arsenal used to do 'initial gragra'. But Anderson and Cleverly are yet to even get that form back. Any way this is not a debate of Anderson and Cleverly because they don't even play like Dortmond. Cleverly's game is closer to Xavi's style while Anderson runs with the ball like Edgar Davids used to do, except Ando has a long way to go.

how would you know when you didn't see them play in 11/12?

Whether Bayern beat Barca or not o, it doesnt take away the history Barca has redefined. Just like Man City did a 'ones in a blue moon' on us. It surely gonna happen. But we know who are they with records based on their peculiar style.

it left a big hole of shame in them. losing 0-7 in aggregate in a semifinal of elite europe.....are you kidding me?

elampiro: 1. Barca has created records that people have lost count. No team will do what they have done. They have won everything over and over again, also Spanish national team. They monopolize possession and turn their opponents to spectators.

and they had their asšes handed to them by bayern. i have never known any spectator scoring 7 unreplied goals in the history of football.

2. Exactly what I said, Vidic and Ferdinand were not there but Jones, Smalling and Evans. The back and midfield energies speed and agility make things easy for forwards.

that's not what you said.....
the combination of rio and vidic wasn't there but rio himself was there in a lot of those games and united transited the ball without flaws. the key to that style of play is anderson and cleverley. the defence plays no part in one touch football!

elampiro: We were finalist in 2008, 2009 and 2011, a feat Bayern just achieved. So why should we play like Dortmund? The Barca team has won it twice and created records that appear insurmountable in football. I beg let what is in Dortmond remain in Dortmond.

records like conceding 7 goals over 2 legs, right?

Our central defence keep the ball at the back and pass it around unnecessarily. Vidic and Ferdiand are the culprit. Jones and Evans realease the ball faster and even drive into midfield like Lucio.

rio/vidic were hardly present before cleverley got injured against bolton. why are you distorting the fact? what has rio/vidic gotta do with our attacking football that season?

very unfortunate!

biolabee: wat of osisi, siena or slimyems stories

exaggeration borne out of myths!
just like we were told as kids that nigeria once played india and we lost 100-0 because our goalie kept seeing carnivorous cats instead of a round leather object.

elampiro: It's you who don't know how to defend yourself in debate.
Compared to Barca and Spain, what has Dortmund and Bayern achieved in the last couple of years? Barca and Spain are the best teams in the world, forget about a one season wonder. Even between Dormund and Bayern, Bayern is the with more of a United kind of football where Roben and Ribery drive the ball into opponents area.

bayern were finalists in 2010, 2012 and 2013. for all the superiority of barca, they did not play back to back final in elite europe. i prefer the way dortmund play to barcelona
and it's no surprise middle ground won over obsessive compulsion football possession.

As for the Vidic issue, yes it contributes. Early part of last season when our boys played with urgency and got the ball quickly to midfield and forward, Vidic and Ferdinand were not involved. Watch our matches and see how much time Vidic and Ferdinand pass the ball at the back and to play with the goal keeper. That delays how much time in a match our forward can work with the ball. We don't see that when Evans, Jones, Smalling are played in central without the Old guys.

complete bunkum!
90% of the time, de gea's distribution started the attacks or he simply rolls the ball to the fullbacks(rafael/smalling/evra and jones). how many games did vidic/rio even play when anderson and cleverley patrolled the midfield with the intelligence of einstein?

Our wingers were poor. Nani and Valencia were both poor. Both were our weaknesses in most matches they played. Nani only did well against Madrid and two FA cup matches.

hahahaha
says the man that said de gea was poor until the young spaniard was declared the best by his fellow professionals. chicharito was also poor as he did not score as many as suarez.

i wonder how many goals/assists you expected from a winger that made only 7 starts out of 38 league games? but you are elampiro, you probably expected him to score 16 goals and cop 27 assists in 7 league starts!

Going back to basics, the Dortmund pattern is just a fluke, it won't work 5% of Barca football which has written history. I am not a fan of Barca, infact I dislike them, but no one can say he didn't see or envy how they ruled the world as never seen before.

dortmund pattern won bundesliga against a team that has almost 10 times of dortmund's resources. it's ridiculous to even say their methods don't work - how come their players are being nicked by big teams if everyone thinks like you do?

biolabee: damn that guy was a lord!!!
remember it was said he was perceived as a clean guy but inside na .....
i get u but kids test boundaries man...

i don't believe that nonsense....
no heterosexual man can be that dirty.

biolabee: Then he gets used to being 'bribed' and 'sweet-talked' to wash his plates or clean his toilet

that's not the way to look at it....
remember, he's been motivated to complete the task in the past - so he now knows how to do them. the excuse that he doesn't know how to do it simply becomes non-existent. i don't forget to put the hype machine in action too. "OMG, junior is the best dish washer on the planet, when he washes, he does it better than gordon ramsay".

his head swells, job done, case closed!!!

when there are no such inducements, he becomes the spitting roach-man who keeps his toilet unwashed for 3 months as we all saw in the last thread
the chronic lord of the flies

oh please.....
there's no human that can be dirty as that. that's just baloney. teenage dating alone improves the way boys groom themselves. tidy clothes, nice haircut, good smell and the whole works. that's a given!!!

andyanders: BBA is just a useless program for useless people demonically demonized that they have lost every single respect for their existence.
In fact the participants goes to show you that there is something wrong with them and the program and nothing to learn than animal behavior.
Sleep and act like animals.That's what they,

this is hypocrisy....
nigerian youths do far worse in campuses and NYSC camps. you cannot camp youths with raging hormones together and not expect fireworks....

Pataki: Lol! I think you are simply compounding the problem for another day.

explain, how?
a child is reluctant to wash his plate and he's throwing tantrums. the mother wants me to deal with the situation and i go to the kitchen to talk to him.

i went: "junior, if you wash the plates without complaints, i would get you a big gift". how's that spoiling? every human needs some sorta motivation or bribery. as long as the job is done with minimum fuss, everyone wins!

Spoiling a child could have repercussions for the future. I did punish the kid (12yrs old), but I drew him closer thereafter and explained to him why I did punish him. And I bribed him with goodies just before I left Nigeria. So he promised to be a good boy forthwith.

motivation is not spoiling......
as you can see, you bribed him in the end and he promised to be good. kids are the most manipulative set of people in the world. throw them the offer and watch them change their mind almost immediately. he would have washed those plates that day if you had promised him 5 cones of ice cream!

elampiro: 1. Barca and Spain play a completely different style and they are the best. United has its style. Even the Dortmund style was mirrored in Rooney's two goals in San Siro, on the return leg we took a different pattern and still won.

who's talking about barca & spain?
do bayern play like barca/spain? check out their possession stats even with their mechanical football. they still keep the ball very well and they hurt their opponents in their own way without the obsession of ball possession known to barca/spain.

2. When did Aderson, Cleverly, Nani, and Young played that way?

ohhh, i forgot - you started watching united only last season.

Check the complete team list you would discover we had Jones, Smalling, Raphael and Evans in our defence. Then some young guys in attack as well. That was a different approach when you have young energetic guys who can all run and cover so much space unlike when you have Old defenders at the back. Vidic and Ferdinand lack pace and that is why they play deep thereby creating a gulf in our midfield. This allows opponents to dominate, put our forward in inferior positions as in getting less balls to work with.

what kind of analysis is this?
so rio/vidic is the reason united cannot keep the ball for a considerable length of time before giving it cheaply away? what has vidic gotta do with the one touch football
united were playing at the start of 11/12 season before cleverley got injured? you really don't know how to defend yourself in a debate!!!

When you consider that our wingers have been poor, you will understand the reason we gave away possession. The solution is not playing like Dortmund, but helping to fortify the midfield and get our back men agile. Tottehan, West Ham, Liverpool, Reading and Aston Villa have that Dortmond approach, not any of the top four teams.

another fallacy!
the wingers were not poor, they were injured for long spells during the season at the same time. that's just tough luck - it's got nothing to do with the ability of the wingers. only valencia was rank poor and i hope he improves with zaha as a direct competitor on the right flank.

3. So it was your coach who thought you to fall in love with ball jogglers. But only few ball jogglers play football with purpose.

another weak point!
ball joggling is not keeping possession. possession is moving the ball with crisp transition from one end of the field to another with purpose. bayern/dortmund move the ball along with purpose and they do not play tiki-taka. there's a middle ground - the issue is not black or white.

hell, even arsenal/swansea keep the ball better than us. city are infinitely better than us and we have relics like rooney sucking the blood out of the club with his ridiculous wages. it's a travesty - i hope moyes sorts that out next season. players who are not comfortable in possession should be sent packing!

Pataki: I can't even beat my kids. Although I must say the environment in which you raise a kid also matters.

I was in Nigeria for a few months this year and my orientation I noticed had changed tremendously. I stayed with one of big aunty who had own kids, and in the Nigerian context was 'spoilt'. Esp. the last kid. He is very respectful, always prostrating to greet me and using 'sir' at every instance he addresses me which I sincerely was not comfortable with. I complained about this to the mom, but she told me to please let him continue. I had to bear with it during my stay.

The aspect where he was spoilt was that he does not know how to wash his plates, his uniform, etc. The housemaid does it or the washing machine sometimes. The mom decided that he needed to learn and he started his revolt in the house. One evening, he started crying simply because his mom asked him to wash a kitchen napkin. I asked him why he was crying.....and he said nothing. Soon after I was walked away, this boy hissed at me! The mom was shocked that I refused to discipline his son for hissing at me, citing various other instances where I also did not discipline her son for his spoilt behavior.

Needless to say, I did punish the boy after the mom talked me into it. I felt bad slightly afterwards for doing it, but environment do matter when it comes to defining what is a spoilt kid as such.

headmaster, pataki!
today's kids are complex and my biggest peeve is having to endure kids wailing in my ears. when the mum is not looking, i bribe the kid. people say it's spoiling but it's much better than the drama you would encounter while trying to straighten them up!

dayokanu: I thought you are 23 already?

if she's 23 and she does not act like one then her mum would lord over her. parents have to be convinced you are old. i know they don't always want to accept but the child should not relent!

by 17, i had my independence.....

ileobatojo: Lolz. Unfortunately, I'm not as strict as I would like to be. Pretty much everyone around me believes my kids are spoilt (they're pretty rambunctious and I allow many things that make some people wanna faint, especially the Naija crew). To me, I don't believe they're spoilt and I would never give them everything they want.

like a true hardcore african witchdoctor.....
ileoba, i salute you.

ileobatojo: Are you minding Jide, just because you can afford Sugarpova and not just baba dudu doesn't mean you should allow your kids destroy their teeth with candy everytime they want it.

i am 100% certain ileoba would be one strict mum. deploying core african methods to train 21st century kids.

chaircover: which is

"as comfy as possible" is what most observers would consider "spoilt". i really dunno why it's criminal to spoil one's kids.

chaircover: honest answer is I dont know. we try to keep them as comfortable as possible and at the same time draw the reigns as appropriate.

that's my answer right there....

chaircover: maybe . . . .because the kids may or may not agree with me . . .maybe

what do you think?
do you think you spoil them?

elampiro: Some many times some guys here have suggested Man United should play like Dortmund. Why should we use Dortmund as a bench mark? Dortmund had element of luck in their last season's UCL success, in the the knockout stages a linesman error saw them past Malaga while Madrid were wasteful in the first half of the semi final return leg. If teams were to be imitated, then those who would probably had copied Bibao team of last year would be lamenting now while those who copied Inter Milan of few years back would be in anguish.

we are not asking united to win like dortmund - we we asking our players to treat the ball much better than hoofing it. what dortmund does for 90 mins, we only do it for 2-5 min spell in patches. the ronaldo header in moscow......1-2 ball between brown and scholes, the cross and the header is the way we should be playing all the time instead of hoofing the ball with no purpose!

Every club has to look at its environment, overall team squad, oppositions, etc to come up with a pattern and formation. Even Jose Mourinho adopted different pattern and formation in all the teams he managed. What he played in Porto was different from what he played in Chelsea, then Inter and then Madrid. No two situation are the same and no team can totally overhaul its style and squad. No team can afford it so suddenly. A coach looks at his players and come use their strength and weaknesses to come up with a style of play, injuries and other factors also determine things. Marcelo's injury last season altered they way Ronaldo would have played or utilized and further affected the entire team.

every club has it's own DNA but there's a common ground - keeping the ball! my coach used to tell me then the ball should be treated like one's jewel, don't just give it away cheaply. of all the top clubs in europe, united are the most careless with possession. that to me is not good enough. all rooney and co want to do is hoof it. the only time we have played like a continental side was when anderson, cleverley, nani and young were in the midfield.

chaircover: Every single child is different. Some only need to read the expression in mummy's eye to fix themselves and some have to have the devil beaten out of them. As a parent you have to apply the right medicine to the right condition. Some kids you say NO to and they say ok mum, while some kids will throw tantrums and disgrace you on walmarts floor.


I supply both wants and needs for my children (most parents do this anyway) and at the same time letting them know that it is a privilege and they should not misuse it. IMO Parenting is an all round affair and its not just about discipline or being frugal. Its about communication, being there for them, spending time with them and being in their world too . . . these are the things that also shape a child. Its also about how you as parents are and how you behave in front of them. their brains are like sponges and they take everything in even though you may think that they are not watching.

Do I "spoil" my kids? maybe! . . . .but the major overall objective is making sure that when they step out into the real world they are well adjusted, happy, and a benefit to their community.

maybe?
CC, why are you trying to be modest?

antap: This crazzzzyy thing is talking too much.
Just name a place

buy your casket already or tell a carpenter to make one for you. all i need is your address and you would be in hell by sunday.

deols: That is how I think. I usually have what I want. well, after understanding my boundaries.

But I also know what it is like to not have some things you want.

I just don't want that feeling for my children.

How confident they are, how they relate with others, etc can be affected by it.

So what do you think of the discipline part. would the withdrawal method be perfect?

the discipline part is easy......
i would use my dad's methods. he used to sit me down like his mate and reel out what's expected of me. he provided the tools(hundreds of text books) and my task is to read and do well in school. the few times i did not do what i promised, he withdrew all the privileges(i wasn't even allowed to watch football on the TV) until i fulfilled my promise.

by age 14, i already knew he wouldn't compromise his standard for anyone so i understood him very well on that angle. he couldn't be bothered about the aspects of discipline like house chores and stuff. as long as a child is sound in school, the other stuff as far as he's concerned are irrelevant!

deols: I have plans of 'spoiling' my Children.
When people hear this, they give me curious glances as if there is something wrong with it.

I just want them to have everything they want.
No one would be allowed to beat, bully, shout at or hurt them. Do these make them bad people?

I think all of these define being a good mother.

Do you think differently? I want honest opinion please?

i concur....
my children are going to be very "spoilt". i was spoilt and i cannot say it didn't work out. why settle for less with my kids. everyone's prayers/effort should be centred around giving a much more better life to the kids so they can pass it on to their own offspring as well.....

wonlasewonimi: Ask debosky and coogar...they have the codes.

who is this wonlase?

the value of the deal would determine what's at stake, if it's less than £400m(£40m per year) then chelsea are a useless outfit!

antap: Okay, accepted. Where do we meet?

name the time and place.....
any area of your choice - i have got goons everywhere. i can meet you in your living room and still draw blood from your neck.

antap: You are talking too much! This shiit you are doing is meant for women. You are a man! Come prove to me you are one. Let's make a deal coogar. Let's arrange.
You are the type they kill and bury sharp sharp. Barsstard.

i can have you dead within 2 days if i want to...
people like you consume too much oxygen needed by sane people.

oloshious fellow!

antap: Coogar, you are still writing what you are destined to write in life! And its no news to us anymore. You said am unemployable? Yeah, pls let's go offline. Am begging you.

go offline and do what?
if i don't put you to eternal rest in 5 mins, then my name isn't coogar. comparing a UFC fighter to a tool like yourself that plays tekken.

Ps - can't type much like you jobless twwat. I've lots to do.

you can't type much cos your vocab pool is shallow. where's your slavemaster? i saw you guys sniffing each other's bums like animals on heat. that's not friendship to me, it looks like a gay wedding!

antap: This ape(Coogar) is just writing stories. I'm unemployable, accepted. Try me.
A bloody con artist!

con artist?
your failure to grasp simple comprehension brought us here, you homoerotic peasant!!!

antap: Who do you imagine you would convince with the jagbajantis you put up there? A kindy I guess. I love my language, am not like you bloody wannabe.

then type in your bloody language if you love it, you anorexic centipede. the only language you were taught from your cradle to your present geriatric age is english - that you fail at it tells me you are intellectually sterile......