₦airaland Forum

[quote author=Sisi_Kill]Dude. . .you are gonna make me have to go into witness relocation program with this confession. My darling Cooger already wants my head on a silver platter.[/quote]i want more than your head on a platter. you scored me low marks just because you are a disciple of keeping it simple. this is an intellectual debate for [color=#000000]f[/color]uck's sake.....3rd grade vocabulary isn't suitable!

and again, the spelling is c-o-o-g-a-r....the next time you misspell it, i will puncture your varicose veins with a HIV-infected needle!

[quote author=Sisi_Kill]3. Delivery - How did they lay out their overall argument. Usually what is judged here is their interaction with the audience. Sure this is a faceless forum and making eye contacts and measuring the pitch of your voice etc does not come into play but other things do. . .things like word usage. Are you using words your audience will need a dictionary and thesaurus to decipher? Are you assuming your audience knows the things you know?

In short, Delivery is where the KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) principle applies.

Please note that I am not saying these things are set in stone but that is the basic gist of it. [/quote]sisikill, you need blood tonic - that is all!

[quote author=Sisi_Kill]In the interest of transperancy. . .these were my comments on the debaters from the first round (nobody should take offense oh, remeber I LOVE YOU ALL and. . .and. . .I bought a new dress for this )


Reasons for Scores
Cooger – While I admire Cooger’s ways with words, I felt he said a lot without saying anything. He didn’t state fact or figures. I will be very interested to see how his opponents will rebut his argument because I don’t think he gave them anything solid to hold on to.

Shymmex – Like Cooger, he does have a way with words but unlike Cooger, he was able to show what he thinks about the motion and why he thinks that way. Referencing is always a plus. (This of course was before we found out. . .well you know)

Chucky234 – While he gave a convincing thought on the matter, he lost point for lack of adequate supporting material.

Chedderking – By far the most impressive of the lot. . . he was convincing in his argument and had enough material to back up his stance.

Breezy – Going again a generally accepted way of thinking is very hard so I was really looking forward to reading the argument from those against the motion. While I admire Breezy’s audacity to go against the motion. . .I felt his write up lacked some depth. I’d rather a debater not go with the assumption that “I know something” already. . .No I don’t, that is why I am listening to you. It is your job to convince me something is the way it is.

Newacca – His argument against was convincing and he had some very strong points to make. His lack of sufficient evidence to back his argument cost him some points.


SECOND ROUND

In general all had very solid points to make compared to the first round.

Newcca – In my opinion, his backup and examples pushed him to the lead position.

Cooger – Once again, while I admire Cooger’s prowess with the written word, I believe he will do well giving lectures than debating

Breezy047 – Although it was a struggle for him to rebut Cooger’s argument, considering the latter never really had a solid stance on the matter, It is my opinion that Breezy047 still managed to hold his own.[/quote]this is the funniest assessment I have ever read on this site.....i didn't state facts and figures? what facts? like the one shymmex pilfered from olabowale's back pocket? debates of this nature cannot go that route....this is more or less a SPAR debate....the focus should have been on persuasiveness/wit/logic/presentation/style rather than content or research!

jim jones: yep. the general opinion yesterday was that yours was a shitty debate. 5 judges got it wrong yesterday, 4 judges got it wrong today. you on the other hand, spot on! that's why yours is a position nobody farkin remembers. grow up you fvkin failed abortion. you came here believing were better than everybody else. yet two debates, and two judgements later, you've proven beyond doubt that you're ability to articulate your point is inversely proportional to the substance of the point in itself. now go eat a manliness you filthy $2 LovePeddler. idiat.

you are a consummate simpleton!
look at the sty occupant with spermflakes in his brain cavity trying to embarrass himself on a public forum! 5 judges didn't get it wrong yesterday, only one did. 3 judges gave me 8, one judge gave me 5......it simply means there was no consistency in the grades awarded. I would have been more comfortable if all the judges scored me 3....then I would know the fault was with me.....

Now back to you.......I normally don't engage in a verbal intercourse with a sap head like yourself but i would break my own rules tonight to put you back in the firewood background you came out from. you are the spermhead your mother should have swallowed with a glass of guiness stout and 25g of alabukun powder....

Elueme: @ Jarus, u shouldn't fault Coogar for not being too specific. Debate like this ought be from d purview of generalized notions not narrowing to much examples that could sPark controversies and sentiments

nigerians love overflogging the specific thus losing sight on the other pressing issues. the topic itself cuts across so many issues and it's logical to attack the issues generally!

jim jones: very deserving victory for Newacca. Breezy047 deserves second place. due respect accorded, the folks arguing for the motion were terrible.

probably because you are a [color=#000000]f[/color]ucking [color=#000000]i[/color]diot!

Cuddlemii: FINAL SCORES


Newacca- 14.5+15.5+19======49(Winner)
Coogar- 12.5+15+19========46.5(2nd Place)
Breezy047- 15.5+15.5+14====45(3rd Place)

"Congratulations to you all!"

this is fraudulent....5 judges minus the judge that stepped down...yet 3 results were presented!
my simple arithmetic tells me 5-1 = 4.
what is this blatant fraud perpetrated by Nigerian judges?

then again, that was supposed to be the semis....
that newacca mauled shymmex does not mean he would obliterate coogar...
he won his round, i won my round....shouldn't there be a clash between the 2?

breezy047: Everyone does want empowerment. . .
but it is agreeable that empowerment will not come from poor goverance, and every reasonable person knows this.

Mahatma Gandhi quoted: I will not anyone walk through my mind with their dirty feet.
So the present circumstance should not blind people from seeing and being able to clearly identify what the major causes of the problem( the Means) are and what the peripheral causes like Godfatherism are.

[/b]We can never have the empowerment we desire until we look beyond Godfatherism and get rid of dishonest, shady and fruadulent GOVERANCE, POLITICAL PARTY STRUCTURES, POLICING system.[/b]

These are the drivers of the vehichle. The major enemies to the PEOPLE.

And who do you think is responsible for the dishonest, shady and fraudulent governance? It's the Godfathers. If you owe your political post to a Godfather then logic says you would be indebted to him for as long as you remain in that post. Shortly after you take the post, the demands start trooping in and you must obey the kingmakers...

Olunloyo(Oyo State former Governor) described the vicious cycle this way:Money flows up and down…these honorable members [of the Oyo State House of Assembly], during the election period, they want the patronage of the puppeteer. Afterwards money will flow in the opposite direction—back from the puppet to the puppeteer

I hope you know the money he's talking about here is supposed to ensure effective policing, provide basic amenities to the people and create jobs for the teeming youth. The Godfathers spend N50m-N300m to put their puppets in power only to demand N5 billion when the puppets win the elections.

OAM4J: Relax, the chairman will make a pronouncement on it shortly.

about [color=#000000]f[/color]ucking time!

Jarus: Chairman,

Please find my scoring in your inbox.

Regards,

no statement about shymmex's bold-faced plagiarism? is he guilty or not after deliberation?

breezy047: Godfatherism is synonymous with a vehicle. . .because it is not far from the truth that Godfatherism is not an end but a means to an end (corruption)

Kindly tell us who the driver of this vehicle is....

The Noble Laurette Wole Soyinka was exact and seemed to agree with this when he pointed that Obasanjo was a huge mastermind of Godfatherism as a ploy to keep his party in power forever.
Now you can agree with me that Obasanjo allowed Godfatherism. . .and also that Godfatherism causes corruption. Not so?
In essence this leads us to say Obasanjo exibited some form of corruption during his LEADERSHIP(Chech out on his electricity fund misappropriatio).

Obasanjo did not allow Godfatherism, Obasanjo is a Godfather himself and he was put in power by Godfathers. This was a man who even lost his street in Ota and most South Western states refused to vote for. Yet, he was put in power by the so-called Godfathers and each and everyone of the Godfathers got rich under OBJ. Many of them were untouchable. Even the comical Oputa Panel was a smokescreen. Nobody was convicted, no one was punished of any wrong doing because majority of the alleged criminals are.....(fill in the gap)

Now if Obasanjo's and some inappropriate policies sponsored this present trend of Godfatherism, then dont you see that inappropriate political structures, policing and even leadership crisis are even STRONGER causes of corruption in the nation.

The nation is hungry. People need to be empowered to say no to corruption. Failing that, you are pissing in the wind.
Nigerian Police is the most ill-funded organization in the world - what do you expect from a man with 4 wives and a dozen children feeding on N20,000 per month?

I put it to you today that WHAT MOST PEOPLE WANT is a change in inappropraite leadership. . .
because a corrupt leadership has many vices to achieve its ends and the foundation is STRONGER than the periphery.
Godfatherism is not the foundation so you can AGREE with me that people would rather prefer a total overhaul and change inappropraite leadership and political party system and structures, and in useless policies(such as those that hinder the law from questioning the source of huge funds for political party campaigns), to mere removal of bits of vices like Godfatherism, nepotism, favoritism and the like.
And so again I say and you can AGREE with me that you need to look beyond Godfatherism as the major cause of corruption in the nation.

"The world better beware, they pose a bigger threat because Nigeria has the world's largest population of English-speaking, literate, intelligent but desperate and twisted people who have had a formal tertiary education".....anonymous 2005!

What people want is empowerment like the developed countries where every citizen above 16 has a shelter, a job and can afford the basic needs of life. A country that cannot provide that for majority of her citizens tread dangerously to a bottomless pit.

breezy047: Rebuttal to Coogar's agguement
Perhaps what will be obtuse here is the empty absence of lucid and raw facts to back each and every major ‘concerns’ of this great topic. And that is why before every one here now I indulge you to freely express to us how this present trend of Godfatherism that began with the Obasanjo regime is responsible for the sheer penury like you perhaps erroneously posited. . .
when historical records, Wikipedia (the online encyclopedia) and the Nigeria National Poverty Profile exactly states that this regime (Ibrahim Babangida regime) sky-rocketed penury and national poverty was at an inconvenient peak.

Let's cut it close now and compare the standard of living in Nigeria under IBB to the democratic-elected president, OBJ. Nigerians were not buying fuel at N70 under IBB. Democracy actually fosters corruption. This is not to say the Military were not corrupt in those days but they have not taken it to the dizzying heights we have seen since 1999. How do you explain the N1 Billion your president spends on food in a year?

As you know that I stand here today to debate against this topic. With great patience, I have gone through these 2 paragraphs of your arguement carefully but still the STAND of my debate has remained UNCHALLENGED. . .
Because the content of these 2 paragraphs as we see is only a brief speech on the state of the country and this is extremely far from and completely diverted from the topic of the great debate.
To solve the current problem of corruption and developmental crisis in this nation we will look beyond Godfatherism, beyond diversion and distractions (perhaps like you are doing in these 2 paragraphs) and beyond the circumferential emotions and speeches of what has happened.
We will look at the deeper at the foundation.

You have not advanced your argument a single jot here....Why should we look beyond Godfatherism. You are making a huge error with this line of thought. Sometimes, the people occupying the political posts are also the Godfathers. The 2 roles are not mutually exclusive.

Perhaps you may need to clear out this supposed misconception here
Is it all Godfathers that lack ethical decorum and morals?.
Taking Tinubu as a case study. ..
Would you please point out painstakingly whatever ethical or moral misconduct Tinubu has been convicted of by the law court or propagated by valid and responsible sources of the media.

Thanks for making my point here. Nigeria is such a chaotic country where the gross misconduct of a major player like Tinubu are simply swept under the carpet. In Nigeria, all the Godfathers lack ethical decorum with little or no moral compass.

I feel gratified that you may have consolidated the STAND of my debate here.
If the SYSTEM ALLOWS GODFATHERISM like you posited, and Godfatherism breeds corruption then definitely the SYSTEM itself that welcomes Godfatherism is a MASTER breeder of corruption.
You may now realise from this simple logic that leadership (Ruling party system) and Policing are even STRONGER causes of corruption and developmental crisis in this nation than just Godfatherism.

The system allows Godfatherism because the masses have been rendered poverty-stricken! It's a ploy used by the ruling class to take power and rationality from the hands of the citizens. An hungry man will not think twice to accept bribery in Nigeria.

Put in context of this paragraph you perhaps are indirectly positing that we the people being governed hold a larger percentage of the blame, and stand as even STRONGER cause of corruption in this democracy. . .
Well this is very welcome and accepted by me because it consolidates my STAND on this debate.
Like Bess Myerson quotes: The greatest accomplice to the crime of corruption is frequently our own INDIFFERENCE.
Also Anthony Eden Quotes: Corruption has never been compulsory (except the people governed accept it

So if you agree with me you can see (like you posited in context yourself) that to solve our current brouhaha with corruption, we need to look beyond just Godfatherism and perhaps look even at ourselves (the people governed) as stronger causes of corruption.

If we have a good system in place where Nigerian's citizens are empowered with jobs, crafts, etc...then many people wouldn't even venture into criminal activities. It's difficult to look at ourselves when we have almost been made destitutes by these Godfathers. Do you know how much it costs to perpetrate political violence in Nigeria? For as little as £100, thugs are ready to maim and kill for Politicians.

Like Carl Sagan quotes: One of the lessons of history is ‘if we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We are no longer interested in finding out the REAL truth anymore.

Perhaps you would agree with me that the LOVE you have individually claimed to have for this country is what every Godfather would claim to have for this country too if confronted.
Hence it perhaps appears to be very irrelevant to this debate.
What might be relevant if you agree is that I have just made it clear that though Godfatherism may have some ill effect on this society, there are STRONGER ills which appear to be deeper causes of this corruption and developmental crisis.

There are no stronger ills...The Godfathers are the bane of our problems in Nigeria.

In conclusion here is the FINAL note for all to identify with.
You can agree that there are a good many causes of corruption and under development in this country. You can also agree that Godfatherism admittedly is a cause of corruption in this country.
Now, everyone who follows the trends and historical records are aware that there is a CHAIN TREND OF CORRUPTION in this nation. . .
And in such chain trend, one corrupt practice if left unchecked gives birth to another. . .This is concreted by Charles Caleb Colton's quote: Corruption is like a ball of snow. once its set rolling, it must increase.

It is obvious and exact that in Nigeria inappropriate political structure and inappropraite policing gave birth to Godfatherism, and they are far greater in the business of causing corruption in the nation than Godfatherism.
From this it becomes easier to realise that Godfatherism is not the majorr cause of corruption and developmental crisis in this nation and you need to look beyond it.
Thanks

The above conclusion is a tad myopic.
You cannot strip the citizens of a country off their basic needs and expect them not to be corrupt. This is a country of 40 million unemployed youths. A country where 95% of the population feed on 5% of the country's resources. How exactly do we expect Nigerians to behave in the face of hunger and homelessness? There's a reason Politicians mop the currency in the system. It's to make his kinsmen poor and when they are poor, they bow to his beck and call!

[quote author= breezy047]Look beyond Godfatherism.
Almost everyone here that is carried along with this present trend of politics in Nigeria will agree with me that to solve the current problem of corruption and developmental crisis in this nation, you will need to look BEYOND Godfatherism. As Godfatherism is only a VEHICLE whose engine you will need to look beyond to catch a bare sight of the DRIVER. My arguments are extensively presented below.[/quote]Except that Godfatherism cannot be a vehicle because a vehicle cannot employ a driver.
The analogy falls flat in it's face and the premise of your argument becomes spineless. There's a direct relationship between Godfatherism and corruption/political violence in Nigeria.

Godfatherism is both the cause/symptom of the corruption in Nigeria. Let it be known that truth and knowledge cannot and should never be substituted for falsehood and ignorance. We are a country destined for doom, for good or for bad in obedience to the natural law of retributive justice if we continue to pretend Godfatherism isn't the major cause of corruption in Nigeria.

We cannot look beyond Godfatherism. There has been so much motion but little movement since independence.
Nigeria is a republic and not a monarchy. Nonetheless, the people that ruled our grand-fathers, our fathers, are still the ones ruling you and I. I would have thought the solution was pretty obvious to you. Albert Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I say it's time we make a drastic change.

Heroism and symbolism have been politicized. Godfatherism corrupted democracy and democratized corruption. Nigeria needs a thorough overhaul of its political engine. There is very little to guise when it comes to Nigeria's travails. Ours is an ailment that needs complete life-saving surgical repair and yet you think we should look beyond Godfatherism even when it's so glaring that these Godfathers are the bane of our problems.

breezy047: In conclusion,
If Nigeria as a nation is ready for a change in its political situation, it must be ready to look beyond Godfatherism. It must be ready to address the foundation of these problem, such as the inappropriate political structure, the ethnic divide/issues, the elite corruption and a host of others.

I also disagree.
If Nigeria as a nation is ready for a change in it's political situation then the sycophancy and the worshipping of these Godfathers must be removed completely. I believe the purpose of history is to awaken and raise consciousness. Excruciatingly, what we keep getting is the same irresponsibility and the refusal of these Godfathers to learn from history, and their incompetence to forge ahead and play politics without strife.

A book as volumed as the Koran or Bible would not be enough to document Nigeria's solutions. The onus of any solution lies in a collective determination to do right things peacefully and amicably or a selective decision to revolutionarize the entity called Nigeria. Some years back, the Chief Justice of the Federal Republic of Nigeria was implicated in a deal of 12 Honda cars as bribery to a suit under the jurisdiction of his court. Whereas, the action of the latter is not uncommon, the response of the CJN was ingnominable to such extent that he suggested culpability and guilt.

So tell me how this rot got to this degree without the blessings of the so called Godfathers manipulating all and sundry with perks. The judiciary is corrupt, the police are inefficient and corrupt, the legislation is corrupt, the executive is corrupt, the common man is corrupt, the churches and mosques are corrupt, the NGOs are corrupt and I swear I can go on. If you can find any country like this where the ruling class, with the aid of their Godfathers, persistently use their influence to cow the people and legitimize oppression and sadism kindly name it.

That I don't digress and begin to oscillate between tautology and the issue at hand, I rest my thoughts for now.

cheddarking: Judges please see below thread.

Shymmex has been caught cheating

https://www.nairaland.com/995999/nairalands-literary-debating-day/8#11526471

https://www.nairaland.com/995999/nairalands-literary-debating-day/8#11526390

shymmex should be dq'd and the contestant that came 5th should take his place....

cheddarking: Now compare with the below by Isaac Olawale Albert

http://www.ajol.info/index.php/asr/article/viewFile/23262/19942

Are we actually debating or copying and pasting other people's ideas?

Judges over to you...

shymmex should be arrested for plagiarism then or have his marks deducted by 20 points.

chucky234: Hmmm,you just opened Shymmex expo
Coogar,Shymmex and newaca copied contents directlt from the internet without editing original texts before making them part of the debate and should have rightly disqualified them,the judges failed to acknowledge those flaws from their debates.

don't be a sourpuss....what did coogar copy directly from the internet?

Elueme: Guy, u had a good insight into d subject of discuss and you researched well which gave u a good preamble but argument of this nature had better been left empirical without specificity @ individuals or personalities which could cause biased judgement. For the sake of educating this house from misinformation, Lucky Igbinedion was no time a godson 2 Anenih(mayb @ d onset). He was a consensus of the pdP prior to 1999 election because of his outstanding performance as a local govt chairman in Oredo in the 3rd rePublic and also to compensate him 4 d loss he suffered with NRC in d 1992 gubernatorial election wch people proscribed to the Oba's disapproval due to d difference btw d Igbinedion senr and HRH.. D problem d pledged Edo PDP was becos of d crisis btw Lucky nd Anenih when d party had 2 functional secretariats jst b4 Osunbor came in 2007.. Fact: Lucky was neva a stooge of Anenih, tho I agree they were both insensitive to d masses

you must be very intelligent!