₦airaland Forum

jaephoenix:
Logic goes against religion, just so you know

Na lie ogbeni.
I don't have to be religious or non religious before I know that the universe couldn't have come by chance. All it takes is a working brain.

jaephoenix:
1. What scientific myths are you talking about? Be specific. Evolution is backed by science 100%. There are evolutional biologists and scientists.
2. All scientists must not believe in evolution(especially the religious ones even though they don't have the evidence to counter it) but science itself backs evolution up, to the hilt. There are many evidences which I have provided here. You can read up yourself (which I think you won't). So no, evolution isn't a theory. I repeat, evolution isn't a theory. Big Bang is a theory, and not related to evolution. Its unfortunate you and Aemmyjah don't know diddly squat about evolution but have been arguing for days about a topic you have no idea about.
3. Logic is the study of correct reasoning, including both formal and informal logic. Formal logic is the science of deductively valid inferences or logical truths. Logic bases on premises of facts, and facts are based on verifiable data. Evolution can be verified via genetics, embryology, history, archeology, paleontology etc. We evolved from the Great Apes cos research of fossils gives us the data. These data can be verified today, tomorrow, 50 years etc. It can be verified by anyone, anywhere.
Religion is not based on logic. It is based on faith, the very opposite of logic. The bible even blesses those that believe without seeing. The bible creation stories cannot be verified or accounted for, so how can it be facts?
How can you believe a god popped outta thin air, created the earth, made man from mud and then woman from the man's rib. Are these verifiable? No. So how can they be factual? You only believe it cos a certain book says so. Would you believe the Muslim creation story too since their own book says so? Would also believe thousands of other creation stories which were stated in books? If I believe your own version, why shouldn't I believe the Muslim version, or the Hindu, Aztec, Greek, Egyptian, Mayan etc versions which were all recorded on their own holy books?

You own logic and science taught you that humans evolved the thumbs abi?
Oya prove it here

jaephoenix:
No. Then the universe doesn't have to have a designer, any objections?

You now sound like maynman lol 😂

jaephoenix:
No. Then the universe doesn't have to have a designer, any objections?

Tell me the comparison between a creator and what he created?
The universe and life is obviously the handiwork of an intelligent being.

A logical explanation is that the creator started everything. Both what we see and things beyond us. He wasn't created.
If there was a designer of the universe, he must not have been created.

Hear me, even if the designer or creator was created, the chain of creators still have to start from a person.
It can never be an infinite loop.

jaephoenix:
So you believe I was designed? Okay.
So how come this designer give women babies that would kill them(the women) during the pregnancies? How come he makes babies that would be killers like Hitler, knowing all right that they would kill people including his own people(christians)?

Lol pregnancy is now a bad thing lmfao. How did you exist if not through pregnancy?

Who? Do you know the designer now?

jesusjnr2020:
Lol! You're still imagining things so let me leave you there to keep following the Bible blindly since that's your choice. I have chosen to follow it Christly, so any doctrine, teaching, or ideas in the Bible, that doesn't align with the teachings of Christ would be treated as invalid.

Okay cool.
What are you beliefs, do you believe in the trinity?

Kayberg:
John 10 (KJV)
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¹⁷ Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
¹⁸ No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Which commandment did he receive?

Didn't he trust that God would raised him up that was part of the reasons he laid his life down for us? Didn't he depend on God?

Who raised Jesus up? God or Jesus himself?

Did Jesus and the thief go to paradise that day as Jesus promised?

Tell me when you're ready to learn.

Aemmyjah:
1. Science does not even fully understand the formation of rain. It is a product of chance.
Another assumption you call fact is what you say about the human eye. The Great Ape had a simple eye shey? 😂


2. Simple question is this? DNA is a product of an accident. Yes or No?

Bro

jesusjnr2020:
You should see how you've been dancing from pillar to post and from post back to pillar when your man-made traditions, ideas, beliefs, doctrines etc were exposed for the lies they were.

After your false belief that teaching the Gospels of Jesus means teaching the Bible was trashed since the Gospels of Christ existed before the compilation now called the Bible, you left that and went to how I could know about Christ without the old testament.

After that was also thrashed with the instance of Peter, who knew Christ was the Son of God not by the old testament, but by the Spirit of God according to Jesus, you've now left that and gone to the scripture searching of the bereans. However unknown to you, you further complicated matters for yourself by adding your false idea about the Bible to that, since you thereby actually confirmed my initial point that the Gospel of Christ was before what you call the Bible, because the scriptures they searched was not the Bible as later compiled by men but the laws and the prophets.

It's beyond obvious that your mind has been set to the lies you hold as the Truth, so that nothing can change your mind about that regardless how glaring it is, however next time don't come to me speaking ignorantly about how preaching the teachings of Christ means teaching the Bible because that idea have been proven beyond any reasonable doubt to be false.

Moreover it's become crystal clear you've not been paying attention to what I've been saying all along, but just the imaginary ideas you want to hold fast to, otherwise you'd have seen that i'm about preaching the Bible Christly not blindly as you do, because the Bible doesn't always reflect the teachings of Christ.

Take note of the word "always" so you don't continue to argue blindly about what someone didn't say.

The teachings of the apostles and their letters are not invalid. We can learn basic principles from old testament books too.
You can't segregate Jesus' teaching from the Bible. It's still the Bible.

Lol

Kayberg:
JESUS CHRIST lived a life that teaches us to rely on GOD when we are in need/trouble… And I know you can't know that…

John 10 (KJV)
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¹⁷ Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
¹⁸ No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Jesus was literally dead for three days before God raised him.
Jesus was depending on God for his resurrection.
He was in an unconscious and helpless state, he could never have raised himself up.

The thief and Jesus never went to paradise that same day did they?

You keep dodging my question lol

Kayberg:
How do you always read your Bible to interpret it upside down?

Who told you JESUS CHRIST was helpless when He died on the cross?
Have you not read?:

John 10 (KJV)
¹⁷ Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
¹⁸ No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

How then was He helpless?

Most of you who go about trying to teach still need being taught!

Did Jesus go to paradise that day with the thief?

Did Jesus raised himself up or God raised him?

Why was he praying to God to take the cup away from his head that night before his arrest if he wasn't depending on God lol?

The power Jesus was depending on was his Father's

jesusjnr2020:
If you actually think someone needs to read the Bible to know or believe in Jesus or in His existence, then you obviously don't know Jesus.

What Bible or old testament did Peter read to know and believe that Jesus is the Son of God, when those who were the teachers of the law despised and rejected Him despite all their reading of the Laws and the prophets?

It takes the Holy Spirit to know and believe in Jesus hence Jesus saying to Peter that flesh and blood didn't reveal this to you but the Spirit of my Father in heaven.

You need the Holy Spirit to reveal these things to you otherwise you won't be any different from the teachers of the Law in those days who knew all the letters in the laws and the prophets yet didn't know Christ.

Lol without the old testament, I and most Christians wouldn't believe in Jesus today. Without the OT the NT is nothing. In fact the NT is based on the OT.

Acts 17:11
[11]These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

What scriptures were the bereans searching? What messages were they confirming?

The bible is together my friend, you can't separate anything.

Kayberg:
cornelboy
You said Jesus spent the next three days unconscious in hell and God raised him up the third day.

How can you say JESUS CHRIST was unconscious for three days in Hell when the Bible said otherwise?

1 Peter 3 (KJV)
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¹⁸ For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
¹⁹ By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
²⁰ Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Can someone unconscious preach to the souls in Hell?

Why are you guys so full of lies and deception?

Acts 2:31-32
[31]He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
[32]This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

What would have happened if Jesus' soul was left in hell and wasn't raised by God?
Don't you see that when Jesus died, he was lifeless, helpless and unconscious in hell (grave) untill God raised him the third day?

Even if he was conscious in hell, is hell the same as paradise lol? Did he promise the thief hell that day?

achorladey:
This will be evidence that David Oyedepo church too na cult abi?

The madness and insanities peddling will not end soon.

The ties that binds

@MightySparrow

Which of the Gods are we talking about here

Lol

https://www.nairaland.com/7902781/open-letter-bishop-david-oyedepo

MaxInDHouse:
Let me quote God's word for you to consider:
And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground (earth) any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.Genesis 8:21

And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which he hath established for ever. Psalms 78:69

Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
Psalms 104:5
One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever. Ecclesiastes 1:4

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=bible.kingjamesbiblelite

@ Genesis 8:21 God promised never to destroy the things on the earth again so think about the SYMBOLIC TERMS you're taking literally!

Thank you sir

jesusjnr2020:
Nothing strange except you are ignorant of the fact that the Gospels of Christ existed before there was ever anything called the Bible. They're among the seperate books compiled into what now became known the Bible. Without the Bible they would still exist as books of their own.

So stop making it seem as though those Words of Jesus emanated from the Bible because that's false and ignorant.

The final instruction Jesus even gave to His disciples was not to teach all men to keep the Bible but His own teachings and the commandments He gave them, because that's the Word and instruction He received from God to establish His kingdom on Earth and to build His church. John 17:8, Matthew 28:20

But of course man-made traditions, ideas, doctrines, have blinded the eyes of many Christians that they don't keep what Jesus commanded us.

I'd like to know the name of your church. This is interesting.

How did you believe in the existence of Jesus in the first place if you don't believe in other books, especially the old testament books?

jesusjnr2020:
I observe and teach Jesus, and Jesus the Word of God is in the Bible but is not the Bible. The Bible doesn't always reflect Jesus the Word of God so the Bible is not the Word of God or Jesus.

If the Bible is the Word of God for you, it is not for me. Jesus is!

Oh this is strange.
The fact is everything still makes up the bible whether they are Jesus teachings or not. For example the book Moses wrote, genesis to Deuteronomy are not God's word?

jesusjnr2020:
I already directed you to my previous post to read what Jesus said that I quoted. He distinguished between the word of the flesh and the Word of God in the old testament of the Bible.

If that's not enough for you, you can go further back to what I said about the revelation God gave Moses about Adam and Eve to get the answer.

If you have nothing else to say kindly move on.

In a nutshell, everything is still from the bible whether they are God's words directly or not. So you still "observe and teach" the bible.

jesusjnr2020:
Re-read my previous post. The answer to your question is already there if you sincerely want to know.

Are only the teachings of Jesus, direct words of God valid, the accounts, stories and others are useless?

jesusjnr2020:
That's false if the following saying of Christ is anything to go by.

Matthew 10:5-9 (KJV)

And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

I hope you can now see the difference between the word of the flesh and the Word of God in the Bible, and hence why I follow the Bible Christly not blindly.

No word of God in the old testament?

jesusjnr2020:
You still didn't answer my question.

Answer mine first before asking me another as I did yours.

All the laws for the Israelites were from God.

jesusjnr2020:
No I actually don't. I only see you contradicting yourself. I said the Bible is not the Word of God to me, but the teachings of Jesus and anything else in the Bible that aligns with it, but you said that was contradictory, however failed to show me how.

By the way, you didn't answer the question I asked after I did yours.

There's no word of God in the Torah?

Kayberg:
I still stand on this:

“And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.”
— Revelation 20:11 (KJV)

Argue with your false teachers.

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”
— 2 Peter 3:10 (KJV)

“And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.”
— Revelation 20:11 (KJV)

I have never seen where GOD literally said He will wash this earth and bring back incorruptible souls into it from the paradise of GOD.

How do you guys even read your Bibles?

Asking who are those in Paradise now shows you just carry the Bible but do not even understand anything in it!

Don't make yourself look like a liar, because the Bible does not lie.


— Luke 23:43 (KJV)

2 Corinthians 12 (KJV)
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³ And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
⁴ How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Let's take the verses one by one.
I'll start with Luke 23:43

First you need to understand that the writers of the bible didn't add punctuation to their books. Punctuation marks was added in later translations.

“And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in paradise.”

With the comma ',' placed in front of 'thee', it means Jesus promised that the thief would get paradise with him that same day. But did Jesus go to paradise that same day? NO!
On the contrary Jesus spent the next three days unconscious in hell (grave) and God raised him up the third day.

After Jesus' resurrection, he spent another forty days with his disciples before his ascension.
Did he really go to paradise with the thief that same day he died?

Now let's put the comma at another position;
“And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee today , shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
The meaning makes more sense now 'cause Jesus was promising the thief about the future paradise (earth).

jesusjnr2020:
It was inspired of God but not every word or action depicted in it.

Was Moses law on divorce in the Bible inspired of God?

You should have got my point by now. Everything makes up the bible. Whether they are God's words or actions or not.

Matthew 24:13
[13]But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

If you leave the faith, you will loose it wotowoto.

Open your eyes and read that hebrew verses you quoted again.

jesusjnr2020:
Nice one you used Adam and Eve as an illustration. What happened there was a revelation. It was a revelation of the history or what transpired in the beginning to Moses.

In that revelation, God revealed the difference between His Word and that which was (inspired) of the devil which is exactly my point.

He also showed the consequence of not following His Word, but that of the devil in that revelation of Adam and Eve, so that others would not make the same mistake they did. So it would be erroneous to take what God depicted as the word of the devil in that revelation as the Word of God just because it is in the Bible.

You should also remember what Jesus said to those who spoke about the law Moses gave to them concerning divorce? Isn't that in the Bible also? But Jesus said it was inspired of the hardness of man's heart (flesh), but not of God's Word in the beginning which showed them how it ought to be.

This was one of the reasons Jesus was hated or rejected by the teachers of the law in those days, so tell me what's the difference between you and them?

We would rather follow the example and teachings of Jesus not the traditions of men.

Was the revelation inspired or not?

Kayberg:
This is how much you guys misunderstand the Bible.

The Creator said He'll create a new one, and terminate this old one which there shall be found no place for it.

Then tell me how He's fixing it while striking its waters, turning it to bitter, its seas to the blood of a dead man, massive earthquakes everywhere, burning up of a third part of its green, littering the earth with dead carcasses of those consumed by the fowls of the air to mention but a few.

You might say as you JWs always say there is nothing wrong with this earth. But come to think of this short reality, are there no stinking gutters, damps and dirt everywhere on this earth?

Do you expect GOD to bring those who are already in paradise right now to this earth after resurrection, raising them from this same earth?

You guys have the most misleading and false doctrines.

God won't destroy the planet earth as much as he won't destroy heaven literally.
Or you want to tell me there are dirty gutters in heavens too?

Destroying the whole earth because of damps, dirts and stinking gutters is same as cutting off the head a person that had headache. "Oríbíbẹ́ kọ́ ni ògùn orífífọ́".

Who are those in paradise right now? Stop dreaming please. Paradise is simply future earth.

The new earth would be a world with new government headed by God himself, a world free of wicked people, satan and the demons. The wouldn't be any trace of death, sickness, pain, hunger etc. That's what the new earth entails.

JWs only reason from the scriptures and preach that truth.

jesusjnr2020:
Yeah... but not the Word of God. That's the difference. The Word of God is only the Word inspired of God, not those inspired of the flesh or the evil spirit called the devil.

Was Moses there when God created Adam and Eve? How did he write the book of genesis if the book wasn't inspired?

Yet everything makes up the bible whether it was the direct words of God or not.