₦airaland Forum

[quote author=(Eastbay) link=topic=567773.msg7930802#msg7930802 date=1300366456]@debosky,
Until the FA does what is right by disciplining errant refs,they will keep getting caught in this storm of trying to protect incompetent refs.
Teams have been relegated due to bad calls.Let the FA hold refs more accountable for their goofs.Only then will this controversy die.
That's what your lazy cohort lalaboi fails to realise,focusing only on Fergie's post-match remarks and shying away from the ref's shocking performance.Instead the paddywack is persisting in his
one-sided reasoning.
Attack on personality is really not the point.The refs want respect yet they ruin tons of games by bad calls.You can't eat your cake and still have it.It's just not possible.If Atkinson did a decent job of interpreteing simple football rules,Fergie wouldn't have been justified in attacking his (non-existent) personality(if that's what you people call it.I simple see it as Fergie rightfully taking out his
frustration on an incompetent sod.
Since Atkinson managed to be at the centre of identical games with bottled calls ,I have NO pity whatsoever for his sorry arse.
BTW Pulis' comments pour a lot of cold water on your argument.He also is implying that Mike Dean was unfair.Did he get a ban?You tell me.[/quote]thank you very much. this is not the first time united would lose a game away from home. beaten fair n square against wolves, liverpool and west ham. there were games united won and fergie even said he thought the opponents deserved a point. what he wants is fair officiating not some tools like debosky talking rubbish.

debosky:
Clearly you are dyslexic. Pulis went through the proper channels and expressed his concerns to the refereeing body. He took offence at specific decisions and never declared the official unfair or biased towards the opposition. he said 'it just hasn't fallen our way', meaning that somehow (by chance/coincidence) things haven't gone their way, this is different from claiming an official is not fair.

english language is not your stronghold. a manager said he was surprised to see a match official based on his previous record against them and you tell me tony pulis didn't question referee's integrity even before the ball was kicked? damn. . . .you are thick!

Mancini is expressing a general opinion, which is difficult to measure. He said there is 'different' treatment - that is subject to many interpretations. Maybe he is saying that the status of the big teams affects officials in general, or that they have a bigger say in the game as a whole. That is completely different from saying that an official cannot be trusted to carry out his duties because he is inherently not fair.

which also means there is a bias! it's either you say it or you don't say it. there's no half-way measure here. if mancini expresses big teams are treated differently then it means the referee is unfair towards the small teams.

People often say things go 'against them' - without saying the official is intentionally acting against them.

if it goes against them, who made the call that went against them? jehovah jireh blew his whistle from heaven?

Say he is rubbish by [b]questioning the specific decisions alone [/b]and don't question his integrity by saying he is not a fair referee. It seems you're too dim to appreciate the distinction.

if the decisions keep going against fergie not once, not twice then it's fair to say the referee is not a fair referee. remember, fergie cited the events of the same fixture last season which atkinson was also in charge of. can lightning strike twice?

Saying Utd are treated differently is one thing, claiming an official is biased and unfair is another. Fergie said he is not fair - anyone who is not fair is not fit to be a referee.

and atkinson is not fit to be a referee. every sane human being in this country agreed to that. chelsea fans were pissed off, united fans were pissed off. the same thing happened last season. . . .united were denied a penalty when terry fouled valencia in the box. chelsea fans were aggrieved when atkinson failed to send johnny evans off for drop-kicking didier drogba. fans often say it evens out but in the real scheme of things, they were two horrible decisions. two wrongs don't make a right. atkinson is not fit to be a referee. . . .qed!

montelik:
Didn't d same fergie say vida would be available for Marseille, yet vida didn't make it.

which should tell you fergie is the master of spewing porkies! i don't take him serious until i see the team list one hour before the kick-off. he might start jaap stam on saturday. you never know with alex.


[quote author=(Eastbay) link=topic=567773.msg7930717#msg7930717 date=1300365345]A question for you,Mr. debosky.
If a manager sees a series of calls going against him,can you blame him for implying he was unfair?There's no need to get idealistic here.You should know that when botched calls make a difference between 0 and 3 points,the aggrieved party will always be bitter.The way I see it,Fergie is calling Atkinson's competence into question.
When you think it was the same Atkinson who screwed United last season,I have no reason to believe he is anything but fair.[/quote]tony pulis got away with this. . . .“We were so surprised to see him back on one of our games with the record he has got against us".

montelik:
Whatever, d punishment is going away. Every one knows this was a hit job. D FA has just set a standard that it cannot apply consistently else no manager/club official/player would ever give post match comments. But this whole topic don tire me.

Moving forward, without Vidic on saturday, I fear for what Kevin Davies may do to our center back pairing. I really hope we can get Fletcher back cos neither Carrick nor Scholes can provide d needed assistance and protection from d middle.

vidic will start on saturday. i dunno why you guys believe whatever fergie says concerning his players fitness. only on monday, he said nani is back and might take part against marseille. on tuesday, nani started!!!

debosky:
What is the record Pulis is talking about? Pulis' statement is open to interpretation, and is simply saying he is 'surprised'. Without a direct accusation, he can easily backtrack.

open to interpretation? must you be a tool for the sake of fun all the time? anyways, this is the full-script of tony pulis' interview:

The Potters boss admitted he was "disappointed and surprised" regarding Dean’s inclusion for the fixture, and revealed that he held lengthy discussion with the Premier League and the Referees Association during the week.

“Three or four times we’ve had him, and we’ve had three players sent off,” Pulis told BBC Sport.

“We spoke to the Referee's Association and sent them a letter.

“We’ve had Mike [Dean] a few times this year and it just hasn’t seemed to have fallen our way when he’s refereed our games.”

Pulis was left angered by Dean’s decision to dismiss Dean Whitehead for two bookable offences, just weeks after handing a straight red to defender Andy Wilkinson in the match against Portsmouth.

He added: “We had him a few weeks ago at Portsmouth and he sent Wilkinson off, [for a challenge] which was very, very innocuous, which we thought was a poor decision.

“We were so surprised to see him back on one of our games with the record he has got against us.

"We sent them [Premier League and Referees Association] a load of stats, I spoke to Mike Riley, the referee's top man and voiced my concerns.

a manger blurts this out and debosky says tony pulis is intelligent. . . . it must be said it is not humanly possible for any arsenal fan to be smart.

Another statement open to interpretation, and an expression of a personal opinion. Different treatment with respect to what? Officials? Timing of games or what? Without a direct accusation against an official, he can easily backtrack as well.

stop talking like a twit. unless you have a sub-zero iq, mancini is directly implying the referees favour the big teams which also implies the referees are biased against the smaller teams. how is that any different to what sir alex ferguson said concerning atkinson? mancini has clearly questioned the integrity of the referee he was talking about here. every time a manager comes out to say the big teams get the big decisions, they are clearly saying the officials are biased against the small teams. there's no other meaning to that statement.

This is an explicit statement saying that he never expected the referee to have a fair game and that the referee is NOT fair - it deserves a ban and a swift one at that. If the biggest coach in the land is allowed to mouth off at officials in that manner, refs all over the country are going to be in trouble.

An oblique or even partly indirect comment would have escaped censure, but saying the ref is NOT fair means he should never ref again. Unless you expect the FA to agree with a comment that one of their best officials should be stopped from reffing games.

the beauty of this is everybody admitted atkinson had a stinker against chelsea. people who have never liked fergie all said for the first time, fergie was right to voice out atkison was rubbish in that game. so what else is there to say?


roberto martinez says if it had been a wigan player who did what rooney did he would have been sent off, whelan(wigan's chairman) says flat out that united are treated differently to every other club. they didn't even get a mention let alone get fined. saf says atkinson is a weak referee and he gets hammered. the fa are fuckin spastics!

lalaboi:
UTD fans are good with words sha! . .Kelechuckwu, clap for yourself.  well done! ,   No wonder SAF is baggn touch line bans!. . let me say it again. . "A lot of managers dont result to personal attacks on referees at post match interviews when decisions go against them, They show how unhappy they are with the decisions without resulting to personal attacks on the referee". .

If you call a referee unfair way before he even reffed a game for you, does that show any respect for the match officials?. If a manager of his stature can say such what do you expect from his players?.

This is not a matter of ref did a bad job. . it is a matter of handling your complaints carefully. . .
Abeg, he should keep makeing such complaints and bagging the touch line bans. . no leles!. .advantage to the oppsosition!

stop embarrassing yourself before i call you a simpleton.

when fergie ignores the media(bbc), he gets fined. when he speaks to the media, he gets fined. can this man ever win? where is the consistency? in this day and age of freedom of speech, a manager gets fined for speaking his mind? how is the fa any different from gaddahfi of libya in their dictatorship? referees make horrible decisions that have cost managers their job, decisions that have made managers tear up players' contracts and yet the fa don't want them accountable for their senseless decisions? players give interviews, managers give interviews. why can't the referees be made to give interviews why they make some decisions - i think they will earn their respect by doing that.

as for fergie's comments, what did he say that hasn't be said before by the other managers in the league?

tony pulis – “Surprised to see Mike Dean back on one of our games with his record against Stoke.” No punishment.

roberto mancini – “It’s normal – the big club usually has different treatment.” No punishment.

sir alex ferguson – “We want a fair ref, a strong ref anyway, we didn’t get that. When I saw who was reffing it I feared the worst.” 5 match ban, £30k fine

i ask again, where is the consistency?

sir alex ferguson banned from the dug-out in wembley(against man city) by the fa, whose new chairman is david bernstein. . .the ex-man city chairman! how dramatic!!!

debosky:
Stop drooling over Song jare. . . .make we hear word. Was Song not there when we lost 5 games in the league this season?

Yes he is an important player, but he's made more than his share of mistakes too. This undue hyping of one player is the biggest log of wood in Dr. Kit's eye.

so who should we hype? your bed-mate, chamakh?

montelik:
HELL NO. Did you not see d indirect effect of d media lynching of Clattenburg for failing to send Rooney off and not amending his match report to allow for a violent conduct charge, as well as d criticism of SAF for not shooting Rooney on d spot. D medias over bloated reaction to d Wigan brouhaha probably contributed to Atkinson giving d shambolic display he did at d bridge (he didn't want to end up like his colleagues).

If SAF fights it will only make referees more likely to be harsh against us, so d press and ABUs won't accuse them of being susceptible to SAF's "bullying" antics.

if he doesn't fight it, the referees are not going to be nice to man utd as well. when have they ever loved united sef? they are all twunts. always trying to do the "i sent rooney off or i sent vidic off - i am a superstar".

[quote author=Mr_TA link=topic=567773.msg7927100#msg7927100 date=1300312470]I like this though, I love it when you push SAF back into a corner. Plus I dont mind us getting special treatment even if its negative. I'll worry when no one cares about us anymore.[/quote]the exact reason i want ferguson to let this linger till may. he should continue to appeal this charge until the fa see themselves as the incompetent zealots they are.

montelik:
@cougar.

Its not just d length of d ban that is d only problem. If SAF contests d charge, it will keep this whole manufactured controversy in d media spotlight and attract unnecessary attention that will distract d whole club from focusing at a crucial point during d season. It could also open us up to more hostility from d F.A, and even worse from d referees appointed to united games.

united players need that attention to create a siege mentality. the world against us mentality. it has been our best tactics in the last 20 yrs or thereabout. even if saf does not contest this charge, something else will crop up later. united is the biggest football institution in the world. whatever we do there will always get magnified so there's no end to this hullabaloo.

If this was anytime during season from August to February/March, I would be urging SAF to wage a full unrelenting war, calling out d F.A for incompetence and d press for hypocrisy. But at this stage we can't afford d distraction and dangers of dragging this out.

if he fights this now then all eyes will be on the match officials in united's games. they will sit tight before making stupid decisions like the one in stamford bridge. i don't mind losing a game fair and square. wolves beat united fair and square. west ham battered united fair and square. liverpool roasted us fai and square. we did not deserve to win any of those games at all but the chelsea loss was too painful. the exact treatment we got there last season. if fergie doesn't make a fuss now, we will get atkinson in that same fixture next season.

montelik:
This decision has nothing to do with justice or fairness. While I can understand activating d suspended 2 match ban, where did they get a 3 match ban for saying "You want a fair referee, or a strong referee anyway - and we didn't get that".

they are rogues. one of the most useless sporting organizations in the world. tony pulis did the same several times this season questioning the referee and why referees were appointed. i didn't see the fa axe slamming on him. no consistency. one rule for united, another for the rest of the league.

SAF better not appeal as d FA simply wants to satisfy d media and ABU (anyone but united) punditry who want SAF hung out to dry. If he appeals they will not consider d merits of his case before increasing his ban even further. They want to make an example of him regardless of d merits of their case.

let him appeal. what's the difference between a 5 match ban and a 40 match ban? when was the last time fergie was even in united's dug-out at old trafford? he always sits down win/lose/draw. it makes no difference. . . .if he wants to pass his message across, the mobile phone will enable him do that.

[quote author=Mr_TA link=topic=567773.msg7924719#msg7924719 date=1300289800]SAF got a 5 match ban from the dugout. [/quote]he should appeal. what are they gonna do if he appeals, 10-match ban or 20? the pendulum swings ferguson's way with this charge. he has the evidence that atkinson is an incompetent tool. the videos are there, chelsea's stats of 14 wins and 1 draw in 15 games of atkinson in charge is also there. if i were fergie, i would get a queen's counsel and fight the fa with all i have got. he's retiring anyways so what has he got to lose?

[quote author=(Eastbay) link=topic=567773.msg7924554#msg7924554 date=1300288371]It shouldn't surprise you if Arsenal loses to United,irrespective of the midfield combination.Saturday was a case in point.Arsenal will play their juvenile football and go home empty-handed.We can afford not to play anybody in the middle against them and still win.
Let's play those three consistently to see how thy fare week-to-week,because we don't get to play Arsenal every week.For me,they simply just don't do it for me.Michael Carrick is the obvious weak link in the chain.Any serious side worth their salt would exploit his nonsense play.[/quote]in a 2-man midfield, all our midfielders are weak or they have forgotten how to play the system against quality teams. in fairness, football has moved on from 4-4-2 but alex ferguson is too old school to change his ways. 4-4-2 is a good option when you want to attack but it's a big problem when you are on the back foot. a team playing 3 central midfielders will walk into your defence without qualms and since we play 2 touch-line hugging wingers, the centre of the pitch becomes wide for 2 midfielders to marshal(that's our problem).

but, we are talking of a 3-man midfield against barcelona. a passer, a creator and a destroyer. carrick is a different animal in this formation the way he dovetails darren fletcher. there's always an option for him to pass the ball with the movement of fletcher and anderson all over the place. the only way we can play 4-4-2 against barcelona and win is we get two rugged central midfielders. in europe, only schweinsteiger, de rossi, essien, and a fit owen hargreaves qualify.

[quote author=(Eastbay) link=topic=567773.msg7924426#msg7924426 date=1300287219]Notice that the reason why we hardly lose games involving those three is because people upfront drop deep and defend.
Anderson is still finding his way out as scholes heir.His physicality is an asset,but he needs to grow some grey matter beneath those dreadlocks.
Fletcher used to be crucial for United.These days he has assumed the headless chicken role:run as far as you legs can carry you and do nothing tangible with the ball.
Carrick gives away possession far too easily. . .and his confidence is non existent. . .
Rooney,Valencia,Giggs,Nani all drop deep to defend.My opinion. . .[/quote]mr eastbay, football is a team game. what you are doing here is assessing each of the midfielders individually which will not get you very far. on a normal day, the midfield of anderson-fletcher-carrick should not be beating fabregas-nasri-song but every time the united lot have played against arsenal, they took them apart. a team of 11 world class players can lose to bolton. anderson-carrick-fletcher combination works as a unit. i dare say the trio have never been dominated in any midfield battle since they joined man utd. it's no coincidence.

[quote author=(Eastbay) link=topic=567773.msg7924249#msg7924249 date=1300285781]Don't get me wrong.Not advocating for Scholes' use.
Only saying that the three middle players in your list are serviceable/efficient,but not that great.
By the way,Jose parked an airbus at Camp Nou.Arsenal tried the same strategy and it fell flat.[/quote]they are the best combination of midfielders we have. our best performances away from home in europe/league have been when those 3 midfielders have played particularly against arsenal. when you have anderson, carrick, fletcher you have a defensive shield and a launch-pad to start an attack. anderson is quick. . . , fletcher will mow down any threat and carrick will clean up.

[quote author=(Eastbay) link=topic=567773.msg7924205#msg7924205 date=1300285397]Imagination shouldn't entail playing sexy football.
Imagination in my view means having a game plan and executing it.Not defend stupidly like the Arsenal dullards at Camp Nou.If we're going to beat them,we need middle-line players who are quick to think ahead of each play.Right now Scholes is the next best thing to that and we can't keep relying on a 36 year old relic.[/quote]paul scholes? oh please. to beat barcelona, play them like jose mourinho did at san siro last season. counter-attack. scholes will slow down any attack and he will not do any defensive work when we are under attack.

[quote author=(Eastbay) link=topic=567773.msg7924042#msg7924042 date=1300283792]@Cougar,
Got to hand it to you on your tip on the use of the Da Silva twins against Arsenal.
Neat team to play Barcelona, but still no imagination in the middle of the park.[/quote]we don't need imagination in the middle. any team trying to match barcelona's sexy football is committing suicide. they play to their own strength, let united play to their strength. i back the pace of rooney, nani, valencia and anderson to wear down barca's dodgy defence. if we need to get a goal, one of fletcher/carrick will make way for hernandez.

Emperoh:
Dude, watch what you say. Though i believe you don't have to fear anyone if u want to win.
I am watching this Shaktar guys from Ukraine. Been quite good so far and i am tipping them to go far.
Unless of course they meet Man U

the only teams left capable of stopping barcelona are man utd, chelsea and maybe inter-milan.

this team will beat barcelona over two legs.

---------vds------------

rafael--rio--vida--evra

fletcher--carrick--anderson

valencia---rooney---nani

dayokanu:
Sad game.

No complaints about the ref.

When you dont take your chances like Bayern then you pay for it

The first half could have easily ended 5-1

Well Thank you Louis van Gaal. Now you can get the fork OUT

louis van gaal did not miss those chances in the first half. . . .

Ibime:
We'll see how good Koscielny is now without a strong fast nigga to cover his deficiencies.

i don't need to see how good kos will be. koscielny is dud! djourou has been holding that defence like glue. here is the evidence. . . .

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/03/13/article-1365909-0B299FDB00000578-107_302x247.jpg

chamotex:
DK was here before the match
Now my question is "where is he after the match?"

to be fair to bayern munich, they were very unlucky. they should have buried that match in the first half. all those chances were begging to be taken.
bayern were lucky last season when they got rafael sent off and had easy ride to the final. . . .i guess their luck ran out this season.

chamotex:
Fergie just said Johnny Evans hjas sytarted training this week and could replace Vidic this Saturday.

fergie is telling porkies. . . . .johnny evans my foot! he won't start evans against kevin davies. he rested vidic tonight to take care of davis. i fully expect vidic and smalling to start on saturday. brown might move to the right back position or fabio might start from there. the midfield is where there is a bit of a problem but if one of fletcher/anderson becomes available then we are good to go. with valencia and nani back in full flow. . . .we look formidable all over again.

debosky:
Hammys are popping like chewing gum in Sheniquah's mouth these days.

The Serbian winsh must be casting her spells far and wide.

don't worry about us. . . .we will soldier it on.

rio-calf
vidic-calf

rafael(fabio will replace his twin bro)
oshea is a nobody anyways(i don't care if he breaks all his metatarsals).

valencia is back. . . .nani is back. . . .hernandez is on fire. rooney is back and berbatov is chilling.
the midfield is also packed. . . .fletcher(flu) scholes(perfect), carrick(perfect)

we are good to go

chamotex:
We are in deep shytte when VDS retires though.
I don't even want to think about it.

not necessarily. we will be in deep shyte when we don't have rio/vidic and vds. if we have those two big defenders, it doesn't matter to me who keeps. if we had vidic/rio tonight, marseille wouldn't have scored. those two give us a huge defensive shield and most times. . . .vds does nothing. united have conceded 7 headers this season in the league - rio wasn't on the pitch when those 7 headers went in. it couldn't have been a coincidence.


on another news, javier hernandez is the signing of the season. . . .16 thumping goals and still counting. this lad is destined to be great.

vinisky:
Cougar
true talk,  1 minute we're up 2 goals the next minute own goal i mean when was the last time a united player scored an own goal?  we love to make things diffficult both the manager and the players. that's one bad habit fergie caught from the players. but it's all good United till Jesus comes

Draw is on friday who do yall want us to face?

we want barcelona!

useless lads - they always do it the difficult way. that brownie retard scoring an own goal. i just hope vidic/rio returns for the remaining rounds in europe. united are not convincing at the back at all without the duo. chicharito - you are a fuckin gem!

he deserves it. if rooney earns 250k a week then nani should be on 150-180 at least. he's the best winger in the country and his contribution so far this season has earned him a pay-rise. no complaints at all.

lehmann going back to arsenal? now i am more confident united will beat arsenal at the emirates. what a relief!

[quote author=Mr_TA link=topic=567773.msg7911552#msg7911552 date=1300138858]Its always been the way with SAF. He always messes around with the truth about the fitness of his players. But at the same time, Sometimes, players just respond to treatment better than initially expected or differently to others.[/quote]you cannot blame fergie. his time-table is still in the 80s. before the invention of lasers to seal wounds, before medical technology and state of the art facilities swept through football clubs. in fergie's days, a gash like nani's would take 4 weeks to heal.

* Arsenal fans claim that 'with a fit Rosicky and RVP' that the UK would definitely have won the Eurovision song contest.

* Now out of the league cup, FA Cup and title race, Arsene Wenger claims that these 3 competitions don't matter, and that only the CL does.

* Arsenal fans happily digest this and serenade Wenger, who is offered a contract for life.

Repeat to fade.

goodness gracious! this bit is so true.

duduspace:
Yes you state some facts but your conclusion from such facts are usually absurd or just plain irrelevant. Atimes yu correctly write the number 2 but you then take a look at it and tell us its 4

can we see some evidence of these accusations?

duduspace:
Cougar loses his objectivity when its a discussion about Arsenal,  The season is far from over but even the most convinced Gooner would have been shaken by the events of these past 2 weeks. The league at least is still largely in our hands. If the lads fail, they only have themselves to blame.

which objectivity have i lost here? everything i have typed here is a factual statement. i don't pluck numbers out of the atmosphere.
season is far from over and yet arsenal are out of 3 of the remaining 4 competitions. . . . .some gaynners do have them.

dayokanu:
^^ Can you explain to us why Man Utd was winning the league despite Chelsea being the highest spender?
Can you explain to us why Juventus was winning despite Inter Milan spending more?
Cos giving excuse of spending as a reason for being trophyless is pathetic when Portsmouth and Birmingham have won trophies

what is birmingham's wage bill compared to arsenal? yet, birmingham didn''t need extra-time or penalty shoot-out to beat arsene wenger's best team in the last six years in a cup final.

Whats objective about you lying through your teeth? First you gave a list of clubs who didnt win trophies yet it was full of holes, lies and blatant falsehood.
Next you claim the biggest spenders win the league again this has fallen like a pack of cards

kc jazz is actually better than fufuface. kcjazz can be economical with the truth but i can understand his problem. mumuface on the other hand is a liar and he's deluded.

kcjazz:
Haha! NP if that makes you happy. Again, your numbers only proves my arguments. This year we have slipped to 4th place because of Manchester City, lets wait till May to see if the numbers will reflect final table standings.

my numbers didn't help your argument. in the period united won 3 titles on a spin, chelsea had the highest wage bill in the division. you claimed the team with the highest wage bill wins by default. perhaps, you were drunk when you typed that balderdash.

dayokanu:
Simple question, From this glorious Arsenal academy, can you mention one player whop has lit up any tournament?

Which World class player has come out of this Assanal academy since 2002.

From the Bayern academy I can point to Matt Hummels, Bastian Schweisteiger, Phillip lahm, Thomas Muller and Toni Kroos within that period.

Who are the products of Arsenal academy? Gibbs, Arshavin, Owusu, Nasri, Almunia, Lupoli or who?

they have nothing. . . . .zero, nil, nada, nowt. evra was right when he likened the whole arsenal fc to an academy. where school kids just run around for 9 months and end up with nothing. youth players are all hype no substance.