₦airaland Forum

shadeyinka:
The spiritual is logical. The spiritual gave birth to the physical. If your comprehension is limited by the physical, then you cannot understand the spiritual. From Physics and the theory of the origin of the universe, you will arrive at only one conclusion. ..and the conclusion is that,
1. a non material rhelm exists as a superset of the universe.
2. An intelligence/ consciousness created the universe. Theists call Hi God/ gods.




What you believe does no count. The reality is what matters after all it is not about your uncle.

Turn the table around..Suppose your uncle who had been blind for some years went to a crusade and came back seeing. What evidence would you need? ..a before and after photo? His full name as given to him by his Father? I didn't give the example to convince you, the example was one of those things that increased my Faith in God.

Now you didn't give the example to convince me after I made rubbish of your claim. If your claim wasn't to convince me you wouldn't have brought it up. There are many before and after pictures of people on the Internet who regain their sight through corrective surgery. Those promoting the surgeons and their cause use the pictures and videos to encourage others to bring forward their blind friends and relatives for surgery.

You have a blind uncle that was healed as you claim. Why not bring forward his before and after pictures so that you will convince an atheist like me that the supernatural is real and gain a convert.

Crazyfinedude:
That's a popular trick employed by the atheist . He knows you wont give out personal information and he will keep asking for them . Obviously you wont oblige to his request , he then makes blatant claims that you dont want him to verify the miracle .

I've asked the atheists on Nairaland , if you have any disabled person visit the Lord's Chosen HQ with the person during any of the service days . Sit at the front and say that you dont believe in God and you want proof - a healing to your disabled relative/friend . If prayers are offered specially to the person and nothing happens , then you know its all fake .

Chikina !

The Lord's Chosen been embroiled in accusation and counter accusation of fraud, decite, fake miracles and lies.

https://www.nairaland.com/1587075/chosen-church-failed-miracle-ala/3

http://www.pmnewsnigeria.com/2013/09/05/lords-chosen-fake-miracle-cds-flood-market/comment-page-1/

http://www.informationng.com/2013/12/graphic-photos-2-pastors-of-lords-chosen-church-4-others-nabbed-for-ritual-killings-viewer-discretion-advised.html

http://www.globalnewsnig.com/how-lord-chosen-charismatic-pastor-lazarus-muoka-is-defrauding-his-followers-with-fake-miracles/

http://dailypost.ng/2015/11/13/lords-chosen-nigerian-pastor-arrested-in-tanzania-for-allegedly-smuggling-cocaine/
Based on these reports many people have gone to the lords chosen and complained that their miracles are fake.

Crazyfinedude:
Oooohhhm ! What's with these people and circumlocution . You didnt answer the question . How will a blindfolded person be able to READ ... and not playing pianos and becoming geniuses after hitting their heads anywhere - I didn't ask for that

A blindfold person can be able to read if the blindfold wasn't covered properly and he/she has a way of seeingbthrough. It is not everything that appeats as it seems. It's as simple as that.

shadeyinka:
Thanks o. I told him ... MY uncle!
I didn't sa "One man"
He doesn't even know me, so how will my uncles name benefit him.

Your uncle's before and after pics or else you are lying. I should believe that your uncle who was blind regained his sight miraculously because you said so? You are not serious. Are we not debating over a girl on video? Where is your own evidence for your extra ordinary claim?

Crazyfinedude:
That is even a "baby testimony" in my church . I've seen greater things and you are telling me nonsense about lies .

That's why I maintain that they are lies. Christians do it all the time. I was once a christian and I know very well what am talking about.

What have you seen? Or are you going to start spewing more lies as usual?

Crazyfinedude:
Why would he lie ? If anyone has to lie to prove God then He should leave Christianity . Again , why would he lie ?

Christians tell lies to promote their God ALL of the time. Pastors of Mega Churches have been caught telling lies to promote christianity so what are you saying? Telling lies to promote God is what christians do all the time. After all pastor Adeboye lied that he traveled for over 200km on an empty tank because God drove the car from him. Do you believe that he actually traveled for over 200km on an empty tank alone in the car?

Crazyfinedude:
One very easy way is to accuse you of lying and run away . Dalaman does this without shame

If he is telling us the truth then he should provide evidence. He is making an extra ordinary claim. What can be asserted without evidence needs to be dismissed without evidence. His uncle was blind and later got back his sight at a deeper life crusade. Where is the evidence for this extra ordinary claim? Is a sentence on nairaland all he has to provide? Why should any skeptic take him seriously if that's all he has?

shadeyinka:
How in this case can you proof that tricks are involved?
The girl should win a Nobel Laureate in ACTING for her role in this clip. She sounds and looks effortlessly natural. Tell me its not true.

Even if one explains how the supernatural works, will you believe it? The answer is No! Why, the explanation will not be physical and therefore, it wouldn't satisfy you.

Being on her natual form means notthing. Magicians perfom better fit and they do it very naturally and effortlessly. You won't know they use tricks until threy tell you. Many people find it haed to believe that magicians use tricks even after they opwnly tell them that they used trixls on them. They still prefer to believe that the magicians have super natural abilities.Watch Daren Browns videos on YouTube. Even after explaining to people that he uses tricks a lot of them still refuse to accept. They feel he has some supernatural abilities.

You guys are always not serious with your claims and assertions. A girl is doing something physical and you are telling me that you have this elusive spiritual explanation that I will not accept. You are clearly running away from providing answers to my questions. Use the spiritual and explain to me how she was able to do whatever she did you are demanding that Seun explains the trick she used while insisting she must be using some.spiritual element. I agree she is using a spiritual element. Explain how the spiritual element works in this case. I am.waiting.

shadeyinka:
It is clear that you do not understand the spiritual rhelm. The rules are very different from that of the Physical. Often in the spiritual, you are not fully in control of the consequences of your action.

Its like a circus where you have animals trained to jump through a hoop or other things. The animals could choose not to jump...but its not a proof that the animals cannot jump through the hoop.

The spiritual is just a copout for baseless assertions. The spiritual is founded on illogical. Anything is permissible under the spiritual. It offers no explanation and requires non. It is the definition of bogus. The spiritual is not even well defined or explained. It is just meant to be taken at face value that is why many of us just strike it off. If the spiritual is real then come and demonstrate it openly in an objective way simple.

My Uncle was healed of Blindness during a Deeper life crusade at Ilorin a few years ago. His eyes just suddenly opened. If you like call it a coincidence...but then, a coincidence which takes place only when prayers are going on should be termed as miracles

Why should I believe you? I will believe that your uncle was healed if you provide his name with before and after pics to support your claim. You are making an extra ordinary claim, so for me to believe you you have to provide objective evidence. Was your uncle born blind? Did he recieve instant healing? What is his name? Where does he reside and what evidence do you have to show that he was blind and layer regained his sight? Are words of mouth all that you have? If that's all you have then am.sorry to say that you are lying. Provide objective evidence to show me that you aren't lying.

shadeyinka:
Your argument is just like,
NEWS: "A Boeing 747 plane crashed yesterday in India"
ATHEIST: This is a proof that planes cannot fly.

Watch the clip again and propose how the "Magic Trick" could have been done. Have you noticed that with all our science, our car sometimes decides not to start for no apparent reason: do we crucify every vehicle because of this. Would we not assume that if our car does not start, something must be wrong?

He doesn't need to know the reason. All he needs to know is that tricks were involved. You do not know how tricks are done and tou are busy insisting that it must be supernatural. How do you know? Ok you explain how the supernatural could have worked in this instance. Give us a detailed explanation of how the supernatural worked in this instance.

shadeyinka:
This long grammar and Turenchi simply means that no amount of Evidence can convince an Atheist. His conclusion "there CANNOT BE THE SPIRITUAL RHELM" is the only evidence that will satisfy him.

What a way to kill TRUTH!

What do you mean that no amount of evidence will convince the atheist? Provide objective evidence and see how people will be convinced, so far non has been provided. A million dollars has been placed by James Randi for any body that can demonstrate the Para normal to demonstrate it and win the money. Many people tried and they ALL failed. All the tricks they used were exposed. No body won the money despite all the attempts. Winner01 will just use a qoute from one atheist and try to make it as a general quote from all atheist forgetting that the person whose quote he used represents only himself and does not speak for the next atheist. I can easily get foolish comments from christians or muslims and put as as the standard position of all christians or muslims but I know that it will be foolish to do that.

Why is it that it is only when it comes to religion and evidence the theist always hide by saying even when they provide evidence people will not believe? Demonstrate your abilities clearly and watch how people will believe and have their minds changed. Darren Brown has used a lot of tricks on atheist and convinced them that the paranormal is real, many of them believed until at the end he told them he used tricks on them. His videos are all over YouTube. Car manufacturers and engineers always demonstrate their abilities and many people believe them. Why can't the theist do same. If miracles are real then heal am amputee and restore their amputated limbs back. Something that can never be disputed. If the paranormal is real then fly from US to Nigeria on a broom and let everybody see you do it. Clear cut evidence please. So far no clear cut evidence has ever been provided by any body making any paranormal or miraculous claims and for years all those that went from the James Randi test of the paranormal have all failed.

KingEbukaNaija:
Lol . So bro , you make wild assumptions and include "that's a fact " like its going to be real because you added that phrase
You funny oo

Its true. I know christians that treat their dogs better than others.

KingEbukaNaija:
Everywhere bro

Very false.

KingEbukaNaija:
Bro , that is what I'm saying na . Any atheist that does good was obviously influenced by Christian morals .

What about atheist born in Japan, India or Saudi Arabia where there are no christians?

KingEbukaNaija:
Showing compassion is a good deed , wickedness is a bad deed . There is a video on youtube where atheists say they'll save their dogs instead of a stranger from a burning house or something like that . I'll post the video link when I find it . I was aghast at their inhumane decision while watching the video . Very sad . Will a Christian ever say such or even do so, NEVER !

Its not by saying. Many Christians treat their dogs better than the way they treat other humans. That is a fact. If you live in Nigeria you will know that to be true.

KingEbukaNaija:
So ... so ... so ... so you dont even understand what it means for God to be omnipotent Just negodu

God does not lack the power commit sin but he chooses not to because of His nature , like you said , being morally perfect . Let me elucidate .

We are Christians and we are expected not to commit sin or err , it does not mean we can no longer commit sin but it means we have chosen or decided never to do so because we are emulating the life of Christ . We have a terminus ad quem - to make Heaven - and being errants or morally depraved can preclude us from achieving this goal or reaching our destination . Christians have now decided to serve God in truth and in spirit and eschew evil .

Where can we find this christians that live without doing evil. In what part of the world can they be found?

KingEbukaNaija:
Objective and testable way ? You mean after all our colloquies over the years , this is what you need as proof Just hold on ...

All these years all you have provided are assumptions. When you are ready with an objective and testable evidence you can provide it.

KingEbukaNaija:
Is there any fact that precludes God's existence ?

God's existence is an assumption on your part. You've not been able to show that any God exist on its own. You've only been stating it. If God exist then prove to me that it does in an objective and testable way. You can never do that. All you can do is wail assume and lay claim to some elusive faith that does nothing.

KingEbukaNaija:
God created the universe - that's a fact

Saying that God created the universe is an assumption. You do not have any evidence to show that the universe was created by a single entity. You just have assumptions.

KingEbukaNaija:
Lots of people have discovered God outside religion .

All God's are man made so you can discover your own God as well. Before the European and Arabic slave masters came to Nigeria no body knew anything about Jesus and Allah for example even though the people had created their own Gods. That's a fact.

KingEbukaNaija:
1. Faith
2. Logic

How do you know there is no God ? - this is the second unanswered question

Because all God's are man made ideas. If you have any God that can be shown to exist on its own independent of human input show that God.

Fadamant:
Thank you. You sure know what we are talking about here. If at all there was a coup. Were the soldiers so daft to know that they must lock down Ankara and Istanbul airports. From where did Erdogan get his boldness from to fly into Istanbul airport and make broadcast right away. How did they come up with who to arrest almost immediately after his arrival.

Initially, they pointed fingers at Gulen, but he and America have rejected their accusation. Now they are holding former Airforce chief, Gen. Ozturk. State media says, he has admitted guilt, but private media says the opposite.

Nobody is behind this fake coup but Erdogan. It is a false flag. There is no soldier who plans a coup and denies his involvement afterwards.

Besides that reports have it that two rebel F16 fighter jets had Erdogan's plane within sight when he was coming but to Istanbul from Mamaris, why they did not fire at it remains a mystery to everybody. The coup attempt was a charade.

whizcartel:
What I don't understand is how civilians armed with just whips and sticks can over power soldiers armed with sophisticated weapon. something is not right here.

That's because it's a fake coup. If it's real the soldiers know that they are finished either way, so they will fiercely resit any attempt to capture them. But just see the way they dropped their arms and surrenderd to civilians carrying sticks and rocks. It's a charade.

Fadamant:
Yes. It's possible. It is called false flag in security circles. Government create fake security crisis situations to tighten control. How come nobody knows who is behind the coup uptil now?

They had already lined up about 3000 judges that had been blocking Erdogan and rounded them up. The judges have been purged from the system. A lot of the soldiers said they were just told they were to go for military maneuvers on the bridge and and some strategic positions. They didn't even know they were part of any coup and I truly believe them. They soldiers weren't hostile to the civilians they very easily surrenderd without any resistence at all. If they were truly part of the coup they would have shot at the civilians that attacked them or resisted fiercely but no they just gave in with shock written all over their faces. What kind of coup is this that no body is claiming responsibility? Everybody is just denying his involvement. Even the government is still speculating on who the master minder might be. They themselves can not pin the coup on anybody. It's a farce. Erdogan was behind it.

KingEbukaNaija:
Its all over the news , you just dont want to pay attention

All over the news you are casting right?

KingEbukaNaija:
I don't showboat with my God-given abilities . I'm a special human . Visit the Lord's Chosen and see what the Lord is doing . Business enterprise indeed . You surmised that a church is a business enterprise simply because you don't believe in God . What happened to you man . You claimed you were a good christian and what happened ? I want to know .

You have nothing and you aren't a special human being. If you are others will be talking about you. Since you are beating your drums it means you are empty. If the Lord's Chosen is anything I will not have to hear about it from you. It will be all over the news. You are just advertising someone else's business empire for me. I just realized I was indicated into something that is not real. If christianity is real then you will be doing greater things than Jesus the way he promised you. But since it false you can only keep advertising another man's business empire for him.

KingEbukaNaija:
Go the Lord's Chosen : Cancer , diabetes , HIV/Aids all manner of sickness are being healed , . People are being rescued from kidnappers' den by the power of God , people who have the spirit of insanity are being healed , even the depressed now finds joy , there is revival now , broken marriages are being fixed , men who abandoned their wives for many years are now reunited through God's power .

Some of these testimonies and many more are being experienced just 2 , 3 ,4 weeks of joining the church . Some are instant miracles .

We are indeed doing GREATER things that Christ did .

Where is the Lord's Chosen mentionedinside the bible? Why are you unable to do anything? The Lord's Chosen is just a businessenterprise. I am more interested in your inability to do what was promised you by Jesus.

KingEbukaNaija:

Why is it that you are unable to do any of the miracles they said Jesus did even though he promised you the ability to do greater things than him despite your heavy belief. Is it because the promise is a mythical lie?

naijadeyhia:
Being like Christ is a process and that is what being a Christian means. All the vices you listed out up there are no longer in my spiritual genes and I do more than give out a coat I give out clothes in hundreds..myself and my wife to the less privileged. Miracles come with the package so its not a big deal.

Temperament is also a done deal with me. Before now I was hot tempered and never could smile. But today I never ever get physical. I get upset but it quickly passes.

So do not assume that all these are not possible because I tell you..they are.

Talk is cheap. If I slap you, you will not turn the other cheek, if I come and take your shirt you will not give me your coat. You do not love your enemies instead I believe you pray for God to help you defeat them or.protect you from them and their plans against you. You lie, you cheat, you get angry, feel envy and jealous of others on varying degrees, you do not love your neighbor as you love yourself. You can try to do these things but you can not achieve them 100% no human can. Anybody that says he can is lying that is why Christains have never been able to distinguish themselves from nonchristians throughout history despite their endless claims.

KingEbukaNaija:
The Lord's Chosen indites miracles and testimonies of the members in a magazine . There is also Chosen TV for you to listen to the testimonies

I told you that you can't know these things from your bedroom . That miracle that you failed to receive will be given to you only if you can accept Christ and choose to serve him diligently .

The Lord's chosen? What is that? Jesus didn't talk about the Lord's chosen and no where does the Lord's chosen church appear inside the bible. Jesus only promised those that believe in him the ability to do greater things than he did. You believe in him but you are unable to do it because it is a lie. The pastor of the Lord's chosen does not do greater things than what we were told Jesus did so drop that silly talk.

naijadeyhia:
So in other words the entire reason why you grew up in harsh conditions, fell sick repeatedly, got married and spent stressful hours trying ro fend for your family and ensure your kids get a good education and then hit 80 or 90 and die is just so you would be plant food and it all ends there?

If your answer is yes then why were you even born? Why did your parents even bother? Why did your parents parents parenrs to the first generation even bother giving birth? They should have aborted or killed or eaten every child born?

So it makes more sense because I'll either go to heaven or hell in the afterlife? You haven't shown me how life makes sense because if the afterlife.

winner01:
But we are not asked to fear hell but to fear God.

The fear of God (Yirat' adonai) originally means consciousness of your Creator.

We dont fear Hell. If you love and reverence God, there's nothing to fear.

It doesn't matter since all are man made imaginary constructs. Why should I fear any God? Is he a monster? Fear is a negative emotion so why should fear be associated with anything good? Something that is alleged to be the epitome of goodness?