₦airaland Forum

hopefulLandlord:
So you're saying since morality is human construct, constructed for humans with humans in mind then we can put humans at the centre of it then think about how actions would affect humans. with this goal we'll be able to objectively assert that certain actions are bad because it impacts humans negatively and certain actions are good cuz it has positive impacts?

You've summarized it perfectly.

hopefulLandlord:
Morality is subjective, it has always been and would continue to be

people who argue for objective morality especially the religious ones are just attempting to hijack what morality is. this became necessary for them as religion answered less and less questions than it did in the past, its lost most of its relevancy so they're left with inserting religion into as many things as they can. the problem I have with religious people who advocate for objective morality is that they CAN'T demonstrate how they came to that conclusion without being fallacious, facetious, making logic jumps and guesses along the way

Observation alone shows morality is subjective although I learnt Dalaman thinks morality is objective, I would like to hear his argument and perhaps change my mind or his

I believe morality can be objective. Morality is a human construct and as such it can use humans as the rallying point in making it objective. Be that as it may, morality as we know it and as it stands now is not objective. If it is, then all human morality will come about the same way and will also be viewed by all the same way.

ScepticalPyrrho:
Dalaman and hardmirror
U
Let's stop taking things personal as johnnydon rightly said. Remember a lot of persons on this forum have had a change of perspectives due to matured contributions by theists and atheists.

We should desist from reducing every topic to insults and mockery. Try to ignore those 'insincere' persons and move on.

I used to contribute to discussions until i noticed this ugly trend, it's quite unfortunate.

Roger!

Religious faith is nothing but the inner hope and wish of men.

CAPSLOCKED:

ISLAM SELF.. THEY TOO OVERDO.

Slaves of Allah.

frank317:
Wow... I hope this guy have not been killed after this. I seriously fear for his safety

The guy is presently looking for asylum in Europe and North America I read somewhere. He was recently stopped from leaving Egypt.

Heathen777:
Funny how people get converted to religion through feelings, but to atheism in light of science, logic, and reason.

Feelings like elusive love that nobody can point to (where is the love among Nigerian christians) or some personal feelings that is always elusive.

tintingz:
I can remember arguing with my colleagues sometime last week about potents of juju power and miracles, they told me different stories of how people control people with juju, how bullets don't penetrate using juju, one even said India was ban from FIFA football because of juju they use.

They even said almost thousands of people believe in juju, miracles.

I watched and smile, I gave them two options for me to believe thier stories, I told them they should bring forward anyone with juju for testing so that we can use the juju in the military force to protect our men and I told them a story of creation how Olorun send Obatala to create everything with just chicken, corn and sand, thier response was it's fiction that they were not there, I said to them this story was/is believed by millions of people for centuries.

I asked how then you don't believe your stories are not fiction, how do we know when a story is real and not fiction, myths?

My conclusion in the argument was, most people don't ask questions "why", they just believe things out of ignorance, fear, indoctrination.

END of story.

Butterflyleo:
Perhaps not. If you had read the story well you would see that it is fully decorated with love as the reason behind her conversion.

Such Love as found from Christ isn't found in Mohammed or Islam. So I would conclude that you are wrong with your assertion.

This deluded one keeps talking about some imaginary and elusive love as if we don't live among Christians. Love indeed. You live in Nigeria let's start from there. Which love do Nigerian Christians display that makes them stand out?

CAPSLOCKED:

BELIEF IS A VERY DANGEROUS THING.




IT'S NOT ANYONE'S FAULT THAT THEY WERE INDOCTRINATED AT A VERY YOUNG AGE. CHILDREN ARE VERY EASY TO BE DECEIVED BECAUSE AT THAT STAGE THEY HARDLY REASON FOR THEMSELVES AND CAN BARELY DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN RIGHT AND WRONG.

THE PROBLEM HERE IS THE ADULTS THEY BECOME.
THERE ARE ADULTS THAT CLAIM TO SEE JESUS ONE-ON-ONE. SOME CLAIM THEY TALK TO AND HEAR HIM. ADULTS BELIEVE THEY KNOW THE ABSOLUTE "TRUTH" AND THEY CANNOT LIVE WITHOUT JESUS.
IT'S SHAMEFUL THAT THERE ARE "EDUCATED" PEOPLE WHO WOULD FIGHT FOR, AND DIE FOR THEIR BELIEF DESPITE ALL THE EVIDENCE AGAINST IT.
THERE ARE ADULTS THAT AGREE THAT RELIGION WAS FORCED DOWN ON OUR FOREFATHERS BY COLONIAL MASTERS. THEY AGREE THAT THE BIBLE IS PRETTY MUCH FUXKED UP AND CANNOT BE THE ABSOLUTE WORD OF A LIVING GOD. THEY DON'T GO TO CHURCH BECAUSE THEY KNOW CHURCHES ARE BUSINESS INSTITUTES AND SERMONS ARE FAIRYTALES. BUT STILL, THEY CLAIM TO KNOW "GOD" EXISTS BECAUSE "THEY FEEL HIM IN THEIR HEARTS.

YOU KNOW BELIEFS ARE MORE THAN DETRIMENTAL, AND DAMAGING WHEN A CONSCIOUS GROWNUP PARTIALLY (OR FULLY) REJECTS A RELIGION BUT ACCEPTS THE DEITY PROJECTED BY THE RELIGION.

I know many people in this category. They are not traditional Christians but still can't do away with their childhood indoctrination.

Now to address the OP

People tend to accept these mythical stories because they were indoctrinated with them and made to accept them at very early ages when they couldn't reason very well and they had no reason to dismiss them because they were told to accept them as special and previlaged facts by authorities they trusted and had no reason not to. Failure to accept these myths are laced with certain threats and talks of damnation or doom.

Societal acceptance also plays a great role as well. That's why a Muslim will read the bible and mock Christians for accepting certain tales but will read the Koran and defend similar tales.

Just saw this on a friend's Facebook wall. He's an ex Muslim atheist.

To realize how absurd Islam is, one needs to change a few words of the narrative. Take the following for example. It really puts it into perspective.

There is no God But Xenu and Thor is his last messenger. His final book is called "the covenant." There are invisible ghosts and spirits all around us known as Thetans. Thetans are made from dry ice. Zion is lord Xenu's enemy and he controls the army of thetans. There are also light emitting beings that carry out lord Xenu's commands called Pookas. Infact one Pooka sits on our shoulders writing down our deeds. There are special Pookas for special tasks like the Pooka of death or the Pooka that brings rain etc. Lord Xenu created the universe in 10 days and now is outside of spacetime sitting on a flying disc that is carried by 10 Pookas. Xenu has a place called "the oven" where he roasts and tortures all sinners with unimaginable punishments. There is also a place called "the high garden" where he blesses the believers and pious with countless virgin women and rivers of Rooh Afza and Mango juice. There are other rivers of red wine, Scotch and Vodka but they don't get you drunk. Dan was the first human whom Xenu created from sand and from his shoulder blade bone he created Diana, the first woman. Xenu then made all Pookas bow down to Dan while Zion refused. Zion said that he is made from dry ice and these humans are only made from sand. Zion was cast out of Xenu's kingdom and became his enemy. Zion's life goal is to mislead humankind so they go to "the oven" and thetans help him do that. Thor could see and talk to thetans and even converted some to Xenuism. Thetans can even possess you and you have to get excorcisms and blow the holy words of Xenu found in "the covenant" to get them out. You have to believe all of this blindly as there is absolutely no evidence nor any way to verify that this is true. If you choose not to believe then be prepared to experience the wrath of Xenu when he throws you in the oven forever! How can you not believe when we were told that Thor split the sun in two halves 2000 years ago but conveniently nobody else in the whole world noticed. It says it in the book "the life of Thor" written by Pope Smith!

One can continue writing but this is sufficient to display the outright ridiculous absurdity found in this religion.

For those who don't understand please change the following words

Xenu = Allah
Thor = Muhammad
The covenant = The Quran
Thetans = Jins/Satans
Dry Ice = Smokeless fire
Zion = Iblees
Pookas = Angels
Pooka on shoulder = Kiraman Katibeen
10 days and 10 Pookas = 6 days and 8 angels who hold the throne
The disc = Allah's throne/Arsh
The oven = Hell or Jahanam
The high garden = Jannah or Paradise
Rooh Afza and Mango Juice = rivers of milk and honey
Vodka, Scotch and Wine = rivers of wine
Dan = Adam
Diana = Eve
Exorcisms = Ruqyah
Split the sun = Split the moon
The life of Thor = Seerah of Muhammad
Pope Smith = Imam Bukhari.

Primesky:
The bible, but will you believe it. How can you believe what you choose to be averse to?. But the truth remains regardless.

The bible is a book of myth and fables.

Primesky:
Sorry sir. I think you need to research further. The truth can't be buried nor denied. There will always be nay sayers.

Where are the historical evidence that show that the exodus as reported in the bible is true?

National hero! Not the likes of Buhari.

Ojiofor:
This local ocult G-men sef.

They are no different from most pastors you see around.

Primesky:
Your choice is yours.

You feel your myth is better than his?

gabe:
sorry bros, but that money don go sha. N1.2 billion could have yielded N120 million in Treasury bills every year. No sweat. Sure alert.

I tire oo. Some of these folks are almost crazy. Why not invest in treasury bills which is very safe?120 million every year is a very good amount anywhere in the world.

Dalung is still here talking thrash abi?

johnydon22:
I knew the guy was going to break down sooner or later, tired and worn out.

He took the whole thing tad too serious and personal. Had several psychological issues due to it.

He had attention seeking disorder - Quoting anyone and everyone.

He was desperate to appear brilliant.

Developed cognitive dissonance.

Approval seeking went highroad - he even devolved to creating alternate monikers to like his own posts as soon as he makes them

Inability to grasp or comprehend opposing argument.

He came so very obsessed and engrossed in that hostile virtual world and that's a recipe to get messed up in the head.

I noticed all these things just few weeks after becoming very active again and that was why I voted to ignore him.

I knew he was a walking egg about to break any minute. And frankly I pitied him, still do.

The mental strain he incurred from his activities here could be damaging.

And the type of human he was, the type who revelled attention, didn't make it better for him, he became caught up in his own demons. Tucked in over and over again.

I knew it was a matter of time. People started to ignore him, few people replied when he quoted them, even fewer took him serious. it was enough to make him drop.

I think he is just tired, he needs a break and deservedly so.

I have advised people on this board to watch their mental healthy, especially those who take things too personal and serious.

The day I busted him liking his own post with several alternate accounts was the day I figured out how desperate, lonely and banked up his mental state was.

And honestly, I still pity him.

You've perfectly and aptly summerised Butyerflyleo and his journey so far on the religious section.

Primesky:
No argument bro. You have heard the gospel message and you're now being given a chance to make your choice. You choice is absolutely yours. You have no excuse. I only wish you come to the saving grace and knowledge of Christ. Time is of the essence.

Jesus Christ is the way.

Lies. Stop telling lies.

Primesky:
dalaman repent and be saved!. Don't wait to get to the state of these your senior colleagues before you realize the truth. For you whatever you don't understand is mythical. How wise?

A couple of examples...Mao was a fierce atheist - but in 1936, when as a member of the Central Committee of the Communist Party he fell very sick, he demanded to be baptized and received baptism from the hand of a nun. When his wife was shot by the troops of Chiang Kai-shek, he composed a religious poem "The Immortals". (i would like to read that poem!) And in an interview with the American newspaperman Snow in 1971, he said, "Soon I will have to appear before God."


Another example, Zinoviev, president of the Communist International, died at the hands of Stalin.. his last words were: "Listen, Israel, our God is the only God."

Yagoda, Soviet Minister of Interior Affairs, also killed by Stalin, said: "There must be a God, because my sins have reached me."

Yaroslavski, President of the League of the Godless in the U.S.S.R., asked Stalin from his deathbed: "Burn all my books! Look, He is here! He waited for me. Burn all my books!" (Obviously Jesus had showed himself to Yaroslavski.)


Lenin, when the Russian Revolution ws in greatest danger, when Petersburg was surrounded by the troops of the anti-Communist general Kornilov, delivered a speech in which he exclaimed several times, "Dai Boje" = "May God grant that we escape." Lenin never used this expression except in this moment of deep crisis.


Talleyrand: "I am suffering the pangs of the darned."

Mirabeau: "Give me laudanum that I may not think of eternity."

Voltaire: "I am abandoned by God and man. I shall go to hell. Oh, Christ, oh, Jesus Christ!"

Charles IX, King of France: "What blood, what murders, what evil counsels have I followed. I am lost, I see it well."

Tom Paine: "I would give worlds, if I had them, if the Age of Reason (an anti-Christian book) had never been published. Oh Lord, help me. Christ, help me. Stay with me. It is hell to be left alone."

Why do you think that in the final hours of these people's lives they reached out to the only thing they were certain was not real.

You are a liar! Most of this statements have been debunked as empty lies by Christians who want to promote their religion of lies.

Butterflyleo:
ALL CHRISTIANS WOULD DO WELL TO LEARN TO AVOID SUCH THREADS AS THOSE OPENED BY ATHEISTS. THEY DONT WANT TO LEARN AND INDEED CAN NEVER LEARN FROM YOU ABOUT GOD. ALL THEY SEEK IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO RIDICULE YOU AND YOUR FAITH.

BE WISE AS A SERPENT MY BRETHREN. IGNORE SUCH THREADS AS THESE

NOTICE THE NUMBER OF ANTI CHRISTIAN THREADS THAT HAVE FLOODED THE RELIGION SECTION TODAY BEING SUNDAY.

ITS BECAUSE THEY ARE FIGHTING YOU AND ALL YOU STAND FOR.

WHEN YOU SEE SUCH THREADS, DO NOT BE TEMPTED TO COMMENT ON THEM BUT RATHER IGNORE THEM AND MOVE ON TO MORE PROFITABLE THINGS AS YOU FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT OF FAITH.

LET HE WHO HAS EARS, HEAR WHAT THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS SAYING

Yahweh's mouth piece. Seems you clearly don't like your pet superstitions questioned. Just tell Yahweh that the atheist are mocking and ridiculing you and him so he should shut them up by banning all their accounts and stopping them from logging in.

Oracle16:
It's 5th day of our prayer. Join us even if you are seeing it today. Don't be distracted by the noise on this thread, it's just normal. They know how powerful our prayer can be. God bless us all. Jesus is Lord.

At the end of 21 days Buhari will still be alive and President. Stop fooling yourself.

What is this madness?

hopefulLandlord:
Oracle16, don't mind this devilish atheist called Dalaman, ignore the devil's messenger and pass your message about prayers

Prayers against Fulani Herdsmen would definitely work, after all Nigeria is filled with a population that prays against poverty, this led to Nigeria being declared the poverty capital of the world http://punchng.com/with-87m-poor-citizens-nigeria-overtakes-india-as-worlds-poverty-capital/

This is also why Nigerians keep praying for long life and this has obviously worked as our life expectancy is now 54.5 years (the 7th lowest in the world) while a prayerless Japan comprising of atheist majority has a life expectancy of 83.7 years (highest in the world)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

This is also why Nigeria is filled with a population that all claim to be "God Fearing" but has the 14th highest crime rate in the world while an atheist Japan filled with "sinners" "Reprobate" "people who don't fear god" "heathens" "infidels" have the lowest crime rate in the world https://www.numbeo.com/crime/rankings_by_country.jsp

With all these proof, we should fall on our knees and pray some more to tackle Fulani herdsmen. if such prayers work like the examples I cited above then the population of Nigeria would comprise close to 100% Fulani herdsmen

May God keep listening to our prayers like he's already doing

..prayers alone is all we need.

Primesky:
You have no case!. Wait, are you trying to explain creation to the one who made it?, seriously? So you're trying to say God should have made the sun before the earth assuming that's even the case?. If you know better, there's a vast space above. Show God the way, we will all hale you!. Look at a mere mortal trying to explain the work of God to Him with a class room science. Hahaha... Has science finished discovering?. Everyday, new discoveries are made, and new theories and philosophies are promulgated. Why can't you just tell us how everything came about at once? But you're giving me example of what should have been before the other.

Stop giving me the mythical position of ancient people. What you call the word of God is nothing but the mythical position and opinion of ancient people you don't even know. Stop telling lies!

Pastor worshippers will not like to hear this.

K

Primesky:
Hahahha.. How did the Bible lie?. If you say the bible lied, it means you have the answer, but now you don't!. So how is it a lie. Don't you see you're confusing yourself?. What make you say the bible is a lie. If it's a lie then provide the truth. But you can't, because there's no other truth!. Stop living in self denial. It will would harm you.

The bible lied, it said the earth was in existence before the sun. That is a lie. If you know anything about our solar system you'll know that it is a lie. That is basic science .

Most Christians and Jews know that it is a lie so they just claim that the Genesis creation account is an allegory.

But someone like you is too deluded you don't even know anything.