₦airaland Forum

EzioAuditore:
This is the pictorial comparison between a leech and a sperm, as mentioned in the Quran 1400 years ago, something scientists could only recently discover.

The embryo in full with its yolk sac does not resemble a leech. Its dorsal view looks like a leech but its complete view does not.

https://www.answering-christianity.com/g_embryo_leech.jpg

I got this from an old discussion between mazaje and another muslim here.

What was written in the koran is not a radical departure from Galen, it is different from it but not a radical departure and even the koran got it wrong as well. . .

Here is what is written in the koran. . .

1.Translation by Maulana Muhammad Ali : Then We make the life-germ a clot, then We make the clot a lump of flesh, then We make (in) the lump of flesh bones, then We clothe the bones with flesh, then We cause it to grow into another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators.

2.Translation by progressive muslims organization : Then We created the seed into an embryo, then We created the embryo into a fetus, then We created the fetus into bone, then We covered the bone with flesh, then We brought forth a new creation. So glory be to God, the best of creators.

3.Translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali : Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the best to create!

In this ayha it's writes that bones appear before flesh but this is false. Go through the scientific links below and see the error of the koran. . . So the koran is wrong simple.

Sources :
1.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetus
2.http://www.dcdoctor.com/pages/rightpages_wellnesscenter/pregnancy/fetaldevelopmenmt.htm
3.http://www.babycenter.com/fetal-development-week-by-week

plaetton:
This is Bullshyte, friend,.. And its either you are being economical with truth, or that you speaking from stark ignorance.

First, Christianity is a religion. By trying to distance Christianity away from religion, you are acknowledging the sillines of religion.

Secondly, in the 2000yrs of christianity, kindly tell us which and any era where christianity radiated the highest forms of morality.
Pls name any era, any nation where christian morality has been examplary.

He can't.

Abuamam:
Oh, you are a Christian? Sorry; I thought you were one of the atheists on this thread.



None that I know of, unless you want to accept pre-Islamic poets like Ummayyah bin abi asSalt and Zayd bin Amr as examples. It was a widespread tradition in pre-Islamic Arabia.

My point exactly. No such sources exist outside the Koran. Historians go to the bible and other Jewish text when trying to reconstruct the history of the Historical Moses. Non even attempts to use anything written inside the Koran. That alone should tell yo something.

The current OT SAYS that the old prophets saw God in that antropomorphic way. However, you would agree with me that the entire OT has not been classified as being of known authorship.

Just the same way as the Koran has never been classified as being of known authorship as well. Muslims just created a tradition which they claim comes down to Mohammed but the reality is very different. The Koran as we know it today did not exist during the time of Mohammed.

I have already explained why Jews of today are not considered as Muslims.

The same prophets written about in the bible do not qualify as muslims because of the way most of them saw God in that antropomorphic way. Something you said disqualifies them as muslims. remember the tradition the present Jews follow predates Islam by almost a thousand years.

Again, bible historians have claimed that the OT (as well as the NT) are mostly of unknown authorship and the earliest codex of the Hebrew Tanakh is from about the 10th century C.E. Until the reliability of these versions are established, you cannot know for certain, what the mode of worship of the prophets and patriachs was.

Again, same with the Koran. It is also of unknown authorship in reality. What do you mean by until the reliability is established. Do you have any other reliable source besides the Hebrew bible? Where is it? Why should the Koran that came over a thousand years later be accepted as true? The founders of the Islamic religion purely wanted to establish their own new religion using the already established religion of the Jews and the Christians that is why most of the stories found in the Koran were from the OT or books that were banned fro the bible, like the infancy gospel of Jesus etc.

However even a cursory reading of the present OT shows many similiarities between their modes of worship and those practised by Muslims today; such as the prayer (ref: Genesis 17:3, Exodus 34:8, Joshua 5:14, 2Chronicles 20:18 among many others.) It would be hard to even relate actions like those in Nehemiah 8:6 as anything other than congregational prayer as practised by Muslims today. Verses on fasting are present; one even of the 9th month ( eg Jeremiah 36:9); as Muslims fast in their 9th month. In fact, many similarities exist between OT laws and those found in the Quran. The OT God is much closer to the Muslim God than the xtian one. If you claim that the OT God is very different from the Muslim God, perhaps you can point out those differences?

The God of the OT says his personal name is Jehovah while that of the Koran says his name is Allah. Bowing down and praying is something that some Hindus do as well, are they muslims? Where was it written that they pray in Arabic or face the Kabba anywhere in the bible. You guys should stop this rigging of yours. Which of the prophets in the bible observes the five pillars of islam? Which of them believes in a God called Allah? Which of them prays in Arabic facing the Kaaba? The God of the bible in some places does wrong and apologizes for it. Allah of the Koran as conceived can never do such. The God of the bible depending on which version(OT or NT) has a son, is 3 in one while Allah of the Koran is not. Their attributes are not even the same. The prophets in the bible and the Koran talk about different God concept . That much is very clear.

Abuamam:
Actually, it is not of that much importance. The final laws of Islam stand on their own authority and require no justification. It is just statement of fact... take it or leave it is a matter of supreme indifference to Muslims. Our responses are with respect to op's question and we are not trying to convince anyone.

Apart from the Islamic sources which other source asserts that Abraham built the Kaaba?

They are monotheists in that they believe in the same Single Unique Creator as we do; differentiating them from xtians who believe in a trinity; a concept they consider as gross blasphemy. [b]However, the Jews themselves hold views about God that are considered blasphemous in Islam, such as the extreme antropomorphism they attrtibute to God... exalted above all such is He... like the traits of tiredness, drunkenness, repentance of previous decisions, lack of knowledge about certain issues [/b]etc. If these views were to be held by anyone, he automatically leaves the fold of Islam... even if he were to profess the belief in monotheism and the prophethood of Muhammad (saw).
The other reason why they are not Muslims today; is that they follow laws that are no longer valid after the final revelations of Muhammad (saw). They insist on following laws which are; more often than not; man-made, thereby rejecting in principle, the reality of submission to the Will of God. For these 2 reasons, they are not Muslims today, though they are basically monotheists. The same goes for other Unitarian faiths that direct their worship to the Almighty alone, without intermediaries. Of course, there are minor variations.

Most of the prophets in the bible saw God and addressed him that way. In the bible it is written that God himself told some of the prophets to apologize on his behalf. Most prophets in the bible used words about God that showed repentance tiredness etc. That alone means there weren't Muslims if we are to go by your definition of who God is to the Muslims. The God concept talked about in the bible by the Jews is very different from the God concept in the Koran. It is completely disingenuous to claim that the biblical prophets were Muslims. No indication that they ever knew Allah or worshiped a God concept like him. Allah is a God idea that was conceived by Mohammed and his compatriots

We may not know how Abraham referred to the Supreme Deity. It is of no consequence. Definitely he did not refer to Him as 'God' or 'Dieu' or 'Olodumare'... or the hundred thousand other names by which the Supreme Deity is referred to in different languages. The issue is insignificant and a question of semantics. The fact is Abraham believed and worshipped a single Almighty Creator. Abraham's understanding of God's attributes was similar to that understood by the other true prophets and messengers of God, as well as Muslims today. He submitted to the Will of the Creator to the extent of preparing to sacrifice his only son; and kept all the laws that God gave him. Therefore he was a Muslim by definition. Q.E.D.

Yet Jews that do same today aren't Muslims?

As a post script, i would like to add that the word Jew or Yehudi was not originally used to describe a person of a specific faith, but had tribal connotations. I doubt if even Moses and other patriachs described themselves as Jews in the manner of 'followers of a specific religion'. Jew and Judaism are more often used recently in a religious context, and even then, the lines are very blurred. For example, there are 'secular' or 'atheist' jews today. A concept that is impossible in Islam.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew_(word)

We have the bible that tells us about them, their mode of worship and the idea of God that they believed in. It is not the same with the God describe in the Koran, therefore they weren't Muslims.

Abuamam:
He was neither a Jew nor an Arab.

Muslims understand Islam to have commenced with Adam, who worshipped the Almighty Creator, and submitted to His Will. All monotheists who submit to the laws and codes set by the Almighty are; by definition; Muslims. Islam means submission to the Will of the Almighty.

This is how you guys rig your way out and spread the myth that the founders of the Jewish religion were Muslims. Nothing is more important to the foundations and development of Islam than the re-casting of biblical personalities into newly assigned roles as devout Muslims. Shaping Israelite patriarchs into ancient Muslims who worshiped the God invented by Muhammad and his people remains the best step Mohammed and his people used to legitimize their newly founded religion.

Are the present Jews that are living in Israel today Muslims? They are strict monotheist who believe and submit to the will of the Almighty. Are the Muslims? Why or why not? What about the Scientologist who are also monotheist that believe in an almighty?

There are many different God concepts and ideas and that remains the reality. Allah is just one of them. Claiming that Allah alone is the almighty so that the Jewish Patriarchs can be claimed to have believed in his is just bogus Islamic fraud. Where did Abraham ever mention the word Allah if not in the Koran?

This news is false. PDP is actually leading in Taraba state.

alchemist13:
I wonder o! See how people dey display their ignorance.

He quickly posted a link without reading it. His link doesn't even agree with what he is saying.

Hiswordxray:
I have answered your question and if you don't understand then pray to God that He may open your eyes of understanding.

You haven't even attempted to answer the question. How old is the planet called earth?

malvisguy212:
According to sango, yoruba is his first creation but history say the Jews and the Egyptian are the oldest in this universe.

Which history says that the Jews and Egyptians are the oldest people in the universe?

malvisguy212:
the mystery of God we know are his nature hidden from the foundation of the world, Not one of you know it, science can never knew it because science cannot look for evidence where matter do not exist.

Use christianity and tell me the exact age of the earth. What exactly did God use in creating water?

Hiswordxray:
I reveal to you the wisdom of God embodied in His mystery and you call it thrash just because you don't understand it.
Do you call every maths you can't solve thrash?
This is exactly the problem of you people, when you don't understand something you call it thrash instead of finding a way to understand.

Simply tell me the exact age of the earth using your special knowledge of God. Your shenanigans are becoming boring already.

Hiswordxray:
The mystery exist outside time and time exist in the mystery. The earth started in the mystery because the earth is a shadow of the mystery. The past and the future is the today of the mystery, therefore the earth started today.

Why do you keep pretending to know what you don't? Why are you spewing thrash.

Hiswordxray:
The mystery of God is a person. This mystery of God is time himself. He is the beginning of time and the end of time at the same time. Time exist in this mystery for he is above time. He pay no tribute to time. He is the essence, meaning and purpose of time. The future and the past is his today. That is why he calls things that will be as if they already are. He had finished all things before time and within time he also finished all things but at the end of time he had to finish all things. Time isn't real for the mystery of God is the reality of time.

So what time did the earth began? it began in the time if the mystery. The earth began in him before it existed. For the earth and all creation is a shadow, type and representation of him. He is the reality of the earth. For he is the new creation. The old creation is a shadow of the new creation but the new creation began before the old creation and the new creation with later begin after the old creation. Because the new creation is the end of the old creation.

. I asked a simple question and you just went about rambling. Tell me the exact age of the earth using the mystery of God. That's all I asked.

Hiswordxray:
Yes we hold the mystery of God, hidden from the foundation of the world.

Which mystery of the world do you hold? Tell me the exact age of the earth using the mystery of God you are talking about.

Nice memes.

Recently I was involved with a similar conversation albeit not too detailed with a Muslim man. Islam has a way of using fear to enslave people's minds. The guy was offended I was reasoning the way I was and asking the type of questions I was asking. He kept saying Allah knows best. Allah alone knows everything and we as humans are not supposed to reason the way I was reasoning or ask such questions. He was both angry and frustrated over simple questions I asked him and the way I clearly expressed my skepticism.

Most religious people just go about spreading their religious doctrines and theological teachings with out being countered so rhey feel they have some kind of indisputable truth. I watched some lady destroy a preacher on facebook when he went about putting people he called unbelievers down and gays. I was so happy I had to send the lady a friend's request.

Misogynist2014:
There is no way I can bring you to accepting it as fact because it is written, "Professing to be wise, they became Foöls". So that the Scriptures might be fulfilled: "That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not
understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven
them."

Just the same way satan has blinded your eyes from seeing the truth written inside the Koran because he wants you to join him in hell. You guy will keep making excuses for obvious mythology and fictitious writings. Just the way you have been conditioned and thought to reason along the christian line of faith, you should also remember that muslims, hindus etc were also conditioned and indoctrinated to reason along their own religion line of faith that is why we have about 1.3 billion hindus and about 1.8 billion muslims in the word today because all have been conditioned to reason along a particular line.

Empiree:
Rulings/practices that DO NOT CHANGE i:e Tawheed, Salat, Ramadan, Haj, zakat, Qadar. These are derived primarily from Quran. Also Hudood (punishment) directly recommended from Quran do not change. If hadith said opposite, it has to be set aside even if it's in sahih. For instance, punishement for theft, adultery, murder are mentioned in the Quran.

What is the recommended Quranic punishment for gays and adulterers?

Misogynist2014:
You see, history is very easy to twist. If they were not witnesses, why does their account of His resurrection match with ease? How did He fulfill prophecies? To say the Disciples and early christians did not face persecution is a very dry joke that holds no water.

Match with ease? According to whom? How did John die?

Misogynist2014:
You're so funny. All historians and archeologists!? Jesus exists, my dear friend. If He didn't, Christians and even His disciples, except John would not have suffered persecution in vain.

Stories of his disciples suffering came hundreds of years later by the church to strengthen the faith of believers at that time. The stories of Jesus were written by Christians who lived at least 40 -100 years after Jesus supposedly died. Non of the authors of the gospels was an eye witness.

It's just a projection and I don't think it will turn out to be true.

This thread needs to be deleted. Why are the mods allowing such blatant scam artist to be operating freely here on nairaland?

malvisguy212:
the exedus is historical read here http://www.bibleandscience.com/archaeology/exodus.htm

No it is not historical stop going to christian apologist websites that are just there to spread lies. Even the link you gave clearly admitted that the exodus is non historical. From the link it says.

"This exit from Egypt by the Hyksos probably included the Israelites as well. The story of the Exodus is most likely bases on the expulsion of the Hyksos from Egypt"

The claim that the exit of the Hykos probably included Israelites as well. Pure speculation. The Hykos have nothing to do with the Isrealites, did the bible mention the Hykos anywhere? The bible got everything wrong about the Exodus for example, the bible addressed the King of Egypt Pharaoh supposedly during the time of Joseph even when they had not started using the tittle yet. No evidence to show that the Isrealites were ever enslaved in Eygyt at all. christian apoligist just use the expulsion of the Hykos a very small group of people to perpetuate the mythology written inside the bible. The bible mentions no Hykos anywhere and the Hykos are not the Jews.

Numbers and logistics
The consensus among biblical scholars today is that there was never any exodus of the proportions described in the Bible.[15] According to Exodus 12:37–38, the Israelites numbered "about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children," plus many non-Israelites and livestock.[16] Numbers 1:46 gives a more precise total of 603,550 men aged 20 and up.[17] The 600,000, plus wives, children, the elderly, and the "mixed multitude" of non-Israelites would have numbered some 2 million people,[18] compared with an entire Egyptian population in 1250 BCE of around 3 to 3.5 million.[19] Marching ten abreast, and without accounting for livestock, they would have formed a line 150 miles long.[20] No evidence has been found that indicates Egypt ever suffered such a demographic and economic catastrophe or that the Sinai desert ever hosted (or could have hosted) these millions of people and their herds.[21]

Some scholars have rationalised these numbers into smaller figures, for example reading the Hebrew as "600 families" rather than 600,000 men, but all such solutions have their own set of problems.[22] The view of mainstream modern biblical scholarship is that the improbability of the Exodus story originates because it was written not as history, but to demonstrate God's purpose and deeds with his Chosen People, Israel.[3] Some have suggested that the 603,550 people delivered from Egypt (according to Numbers 1:46) is not a number, but a gematria (a code in which numbers represent letters or words) for bnei yisra'el kol rosh, "the children of Israel, every individual;"[23] while the number 600,000 symbolises the total destruction of the generation of Israel which left Egypt, none of whom lived to see the Promised Land.[24]

Archaeology
A century of research by archaeologists and Egyptologists has found no evidence which can be directly related to the Exodus captivity and the escape and travels through the wilderness,[3] and most archaeologists have abandoned the archaeological investigation of Moses and the Exodus as "a fruitless pursuit".[4] A number of theories have been put forward to account for the origins of the Israelites, and despite differing details they agree on Israel's Canaanite origins.[25] The culture of the earliest Israelite settlements is Canaanite, their cult-objects are those of the Canaanite god El, the pottery remains in the local Canaanite tradition, and the alphabet used is early Canaanite, and almost the sole marker distinguishing the "Israelite" villages from Canaanite sites is an absence of pig bones, although whether even this is an ethnic marker or is due to other factors remains a matter of dispute.[26]


Date
Attempts to date the Exodus to a specific century have been inconclusive.[36] 1 Kings 6:1 says that the Exodus occurred 480 years before the construction of Solomon's Temple; this would imply an Exodus c.1446 BCE, during Egypt's Eighteenth Dynasty.[37] However, it is widely recognised that the number in 1 Kings is symbolic,[38] representing twelve generations of forty years each.[39] (The number 480 is not only symbolic – the twelve generations – but schematic: Solomon's temple (the First Temple) is founded 480 years after the Exodus and 480 years before the foundation of the Second Temple).[40] There are also major archeological obstacles in dating the Exodus to the Eighteenth Dynasty: Canaan at the time was a part of the Egyptian empire, so that the Israelites would in effect be escaping from Egypt to Egypt, and its cities were unwalled and do not show destruction layers consistent with the Bible's account of the occupation of the land (e.g., Jericho was "small and poor, almost insignificant, and unfortified (and) [t]here was also no sign of a destruction". (Finkelstein and Silberman, 2002).[41]

William F. Albright, the leading biblical archaeologist of the mid-20th century, proposed an alternative 13th century date of around 1250–1200 BCE for the Exodus event and the entry into Canaan described in the Book of Joshua.[42] (The Merneptah Stele indicated that a people called "Israel" were already known in Canaan by the reign of Merneptah (1213–1203 BCE), so a date later than this was impossible). His argument was based on many strands of evidence, including archaeologically attested destruction at Beitel (Bethel) and some other cities at around that period and the occurrence of distinctive house-types and round-collared jars which, in his opinion, were "Israelite".[42] Albright's theory enjoyed popularity at the time, but has now been generally abandoned in scholarship:[42] the so-called "Israelite" house-type, the collar-rimmed jars, and other items which Albright thought distinctive and new have now been recognised as continuations of indigenous Canaanite types,[43] and while some "Joshua" cities, including Hazor, Lachish, Megiddo and others, have destruction and transition layers around 1250–1145 BCE, others, including Jericho, have none or were uninhabited during this period.[44][45]

Details in the story hint that a complex and multilayered editing process has been at work: the Exodus cities of Pithom and Rameses, for example, were not inhabited during most of the New Kingdom period, and the forty years of wilderness wanderings are also full of inconsistencies and anachronisms.[46] It is therefore best to treat the Exodus story not as the record of a single historical event but as a "powerful collective memory of the Egyptian occupation of Canaan and the enslavement of its population" during the 13th and 12th centuries (Ann Killebrew, 2005).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exodus#Historicity

There is no historical or archaeological evidence that supports the exodus. It is non historical.

muafrika:
Have you done theology? And what happened to the vodoo demonstration video?

Yes, I have. I am still waiting for them to get back to me on the voodo stuff.

malvisguy212:
what proof do you need that Moses wrote the pentateuch? Jesus quoted from the same WRITTEN infacte not only did Jesus quote Moses, Paul quote Moses ;

Acts 26:22 "...I teach nothing except
what the prophets and Moses said
would happen..."
Romans 10:5 "For Moses wrote..."

How would Paul could've known what Moses wrote without reading the torah?Roman 10:5 say "MOSES WROTE" this indicate Moses wrote book,what book if is not the pentateuch?

I just told you that they were only repeating a tradition, the same way muslims claim that an angel recited the Koran to Mohammed. Jesus referenced the Exodus, but most historians say that the exodus is non historical. Hebrew rabbi's are the ones that pointed it out that Moses did not write those books. Can you read Hebrew? Have you ever studied the bible in it's original language?

malvisguy212:
Johnnydon and dalaman.

Jesus himself quoted from the pentateuch;

Matthew 22:24 "Moses said, 'If a
man dies without children...'"
Mark 7:10 "For instance, Moses
gave you this law from God..."
Mark 12:24 "...haven't you ever
read about this in the WRITTENS of
Moses, in the story of the burning
bush..."
Luke 24:44 "...I told you that
everything WRITTEN about me by
Moses and the prophets and in the
Psalms must all come true."
John 1:17 "For the law was given
through Moses..."
John 5:46 "But if you had believed
Moses, you would have believed me
because HE WROTE about me. And
since you don't believe what he
wrote, how will you believe what I
say?"

Clearly written here, Moses wrote the pentateuch but the bible never indicate he wrote all, skeptics argument was that Moses wrote the pentateuch when in the first place bible never indicate he did.

Repeating a tradition doesn't make it true. The tradition is that Moses wrote those books but the reality points to a very different thing. No where does it say that Moses wrote the Pentateuch. Moses wrote laws and instructions is what was written. Was it Moses that wrote the creation stories in the bible for example? How do you know that? Hope you know that some passages in the Pentateuch were written in the proto Hebrew which is a form of Canaanite language. No scholar that studies the bible in its original language will attempt to say that Moses wrote the Pentateuch. Christians bible scholars are the ones that first pointed that out. What do you know about the Hebrew language or writing styles?

malvisguy212:
Exodus 17:14 "Then the Lord
instructed Moses, 'Write this down
as a permanent record...'"
Exodus 24:4 "Then Moses carefully
wrote down all the Lord's
instructions."
Exodus 34:27 "And the Lord said to
Moses, 'Write down all these
instructions, for they represents the
terms of my covenant with you and
with Israel.'"
Leviticus 1:1 "The Lord called to
Moses from the Tabernacle and said
to him, 'Give the following
instructions to the Israelites...'"
Leviticus 6:8 "Then the Lord said to
Moses, 'Give Aaron and his sons the
following instructions...'"
Deuteronomy 31:9 "So Moses wrote
down this law and gave it to the
priests."
Deuteronomy 31:24-26 "When
Moses had finished writing down
this entire body of law in a book...

Still doesn't say that Moses wrote the Pentateuch. Just some specific laws and instructions.

There is something that is definitely wrong with Islam. Only muslims can do this in today's world.

KingEbukasBlog:
Because you say fact doesn't make something a fact . Example . Evolution is a fact

Where did I mention evolution anywhere in my post?

5minsmadness:
LOL!

Who are you to demand in what way I should present how St peter died? If you are looking for someone to vent your frustrations look elsewhere!

Stop projection your issues on me. How do we know that something is historically true? We know it through multiple attestation by independent sources. The stories of the disciples dying for their faith came from the early church fathers mostly in the 3rd century and that is the fact of the matter.