₦airaland Forum

Enigma: So now, mere regurgitation is proof?

If you know how science works and how planets are determined and how scientific theories are proposed then you wouldn't be making this statement. It is not regurgitation but a regurgitation of something that as already been proven according to laid down scientific principles that are universally accepted the world over. The Nigerian science body also belongs to the universal science community which declared Pluto as a non planet. As such Pluto is not a planet in Nigeria.

Is atheism a religion in Nigeria? Which laws upholds it as a religion if it is a religion in Nigeria? Your answers are urgently needed.

Enigma: You see the problem now?

Where in Nigeria has it been confirmed either that Pluto is or is not a planet?

In the science text books that Nigerians use in Nigeria.

toba.:
again depends on what u mean by a God and the God u are talking about

I don't know what God is and I don't know that there are different versions of Gods. What is a God?

Enigma: But it is a planet in Nigeria since it has not been confirmed in Nigeria not to be a planet.

Your logic laid bare, my friend.

Where in Nigeria is it written that it is a planet? It has been confirmed by the science cosmologist universally that it is no longer a planet. Nigerian science teachers have removed it from their science text books and have stopped teaching that it is a planet. So, no it is not a planet in Nigeria, you can go pick up any science text book in Nigeria that talks about planets you you will see that it is not one. Your logic laid bare my friend. Again, which legal law upholds atheism as a religion in Nigeria?

Simple question. Is atheism a religion in Nigeria? Where is the legal backing of it being a religion in Nigeria?

Enigma: ^^^ Could you point me to where in Nigeria Pluto has been confirmed not to be a planet?

Pluto is not a planet in case you do not know.

toba.:
depends on which 'God' u are talking about

I asked you a simple question, what is a God?

Enigma: Interesting; I thought I was doing you a favour and had intended to take it even further but OK let me play your game then: point to where I claimed that atheism had been legally confirmed as a religion in Nigeria.

That means atheism is not a religion in Nigeria then. If it were you would have provided the legal backing already.

Congratulations.

I can't and I won't.

Enigma: ^^^Do you believe that there should be freedom of religion in Nigeria?

Should atheists in Nigeria have freedom of "conscience"?

I am asking you a question and you are replying me with more questions. Where is the legal confirmation of atheism being a religion in Nigeria? That is what I want you to show me.

Enigma: You see the keyword highlighted in red for you? "Contribute" to is not the same as cause. The cause is something else altogether --- something within.

In any event the "scepticism" does not take us by surprise; it had been looooong foretold.

Meanwhile bear in mind that if Christians don't challenge one another, what we then get is the accusation (as implicit in the post immediately above my first here) that Christians are not and should be putting their own house in order.

Every religion lays claim to the part highlighted, Muslims, Hindus etc all claim that their holy books claim that many people will disbelieve and mock its claims and as such, they are not to be taken seriously because the divine author(s) of the holy books have blinded the eyes of the skeptics or the devil has blinded their eyes. The point is a moot point since most religions lay claim to it in my opinion.

As for the constant squabbles over interpretation, doctrines and religious way of life, it seems to me that it has always been the culture of Christianity. No two believers, believe the same thing. There is no universally acceptable Christian doctrine, tradition or method of interpreting the scriptures. Christians have never put their house in order when it comes to dissent and counter dissent.

frosbel: Stop using reverse psychology.

The burden of proof is on you guys, you keep saying there is no God , which is fine, now tell us how did the universe, the earth in particular come to be, how did we come to be here on this planet, Spaghetti monster ?

This is not reverse psychology. The no God claim came about when the God claim was made and it is based on the claims of those the put forth the God claim that the no God claim stands. You claim that there is a single creator of the universe, the entity exist in a human form, the entity is of the male gender, he speaks the human language, and wants people to come and be with him in a place without a location when they die. I say it is not true because there is no such evidence to show that there is a single entity that created the universe simply because that entity has never spoken to me and billions like me and it has also never communicated to me and billions like me even though it is alleged that the entity has a human voice and can speak to all of humanity and it has never appeared to me or billions like me.

Where is your evidence that proves or supports your assertions? Where is your evidence to show that the entire universe was created by a single entity that exist in the human form?

I don't know how the universe came to be and I am not making any claims, you are the one that is claiming to know how and who is responsible for the universe, so provide your evidence or stop making the claims if you have no evidence to back it up.

Enigma: No matter how much anyone denies it or makes convoluted but ultimately false arguments, (evangelical) atheism is now certainly a religion (a daft religion but no less a religion) as has been confirmed in various ways --- including intellectually and legally.

Where is the legal confirmation of atheism being a religion in Nigeria?

toba.:
what made u believe that there's no god? are u strongly convinced that there's no god? what are the scientific evidence that there's no God?

What is a God?

Enigma: It is all well and good to leave the sceptics and atheists alone. In fact, until recently most people (Christians especially) on the Board did not pay any particular attention to them. If anything, the Christians were challenging one another in particular in respect of false and fraudulent practices that have crept into some forms (especially) of Christianity.

The reason it seems people are paying attention to the sceptics and atheists is because many of them have very clearly constituted themselves into a nuisance with their obnoxiousness. Take aside the obnoxiousness, many of us Christians would not in general have a problem discussing with sceptics and atheists.

Don't you think the Christians here actually contribute to their skepticism? The constant squabbles and endless display of confusion among believers encourages them to mock and ridicule believers. If its not tithers vs non tithers, then is Catholics vs non Catholics, young earth creationist vs old earth creationist or proponents of the prosperity gospels vs those against, with each side using the Bible and laying claim to the holy spirit as their source of revelation and explanation.

Ishilove: Mr. Sceptic—you look up into the great vast sky at the MASTER CLOCK of the universe, which never misses a second—the perfect watch by which we must constantly set all our imperfect man-made watches—and you tell me, ‘That all just HAPPENED! There was no Great Watchmaker! No Master MIND thought out and planned that vast universe, brought it into being, set each star and planet in its own exact place, and started the myriad heavenly bodies coursing through space, each in its prescribed orbit, in its orderly precision. No, it just fashioned itself, put itself together, wound itself up, and started itself running. There was no Intelligence—no planning—NO CREATION—NO GOD!
 
Do you say that to me?
 
If you can, I answer that I do not respect your intelligence. And the God I acknowledge replies to you, ‘The FOOL hath said in his heart, There is no God!’ (Ps. 14:1; 53:1.)
 
If you can look about you, and observe how intelligently PLANNED and executed is everything in nature and in plant and animal life—everything we see except the bungling, botching, polluting of God’s beautiful handiwork by the clumsy hand of God-ignoring-and-rejecting MAN—and then say you doubt the existence of an all-wise, all-knowing, all-powerful Creator GOD, then I do not have much faith either in your rational processes or your sincerity as a seeker of the TRUTH!”

Let me put on the hat of the skeptic and ask you a question. Where is your evidence to show that the universe and everything we see was created by a single entity that speaks the human language. Provide the evidence please. Don't use words like everything is in order and everything that exist must have a creator. Just point to the evidence that shows that everything was created by a single entity that has the image of a man. Please do that for me.

The hate is mutual.

What is the non Muslim scholarly position on the authorship of the Koran?

vvguy: Mr.Ade 08125323839

I have tried to contact you but your number is not going through, please can you drop another contact or phone number?

Please I will like to know if there are professional marriage counsellors that offer counselling service to couples whose marriage is in distress in Nigeria.

Nice to know that I am not alone. Try and read some of tbaba123's post if you can, he sheds light on the other side of Islam many do not know exist.

There are so many debates here and so many people with different beliefs and ideas. I want to start a topic on people whose beliefs you do not share or agree with but have given you reason to change the way you view them and their belief of lack of belief.

The two people who I do not agree with but find their post very interesting are:

Tbaba123: Very articulate Muslim that has changed my perception of Islam. He is very rational and comes across as a very intelligent man. Even if you don't agree with him he portrays the other part of Islam very few people know about. I love reading his post.

Mazaje: The greatest defender of atheism here on the religious board. He has really change my perception of atheism. He provides very good reasons so that others can see that there are plenty of good reasons not to believe in God. He portrays atheism as a rational and viable alternative, not the evil and devilish caricature we have been made to associate with the atheism. Love reading his post as well.

I want others to contribute lets see how our perspective of others outside our faiths have changed from reading their comments here on the religious board.

Interesting debate.

Why are women more religious than men? I notice that women are generally more religious than men, why is that so?

Interesting thoughts on display here.

I will burn it.

NON of the above.

Something tells me I know this poster and her husband. What I don't quite understand is, if people are willing to be accept that others have some right to practice other religion without openly demonizing and castigating them why aren't they tolerant of a person with lack of faith or belief in God and religion? Many people I know believe that people of other faiths and religions are lost and condemned, but they don't openly castigate them or avoid them. Have a good talk with your husband and let him know you want your kids to grow up as Christians.

There seems to be many atheist and agnostic present here these days. The question is simple, I want the atheist and agnostics to state their reasons for not believing in God/Religion.

tbaba1234: Most of your questions have been addressed in my last post.

The true religion of God must be universally understandable and attainable throughout the world. In other words, the true religion of God cannot be confined to any one people, place or period of time. Nor is it logical that such a religion should impose conditions that have nothing to do with the relationship of man with God, such as go-betweens, baptism or belief in man as saviour.

I find your assertions interesting. The only thing is that Islam is not universally understandable and attainable(Like every other religion). We are told that Islam was revealed to prophet Mohammed. Islam imposes a go between, in its declaration of belief or faith it says that there is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his last messenger. There by making the belief in Mohammed as a go between.`What about the Hajj to Mecca that Muslims perform, how does it differ to baptism? I will use the words of Mohammed Razi to counter the last point you made about illogicality of belief in man as savior. "On what ground do you deem it necessary that God should single out certain individuals [by giving them prophecy], that he should set them up above other people, that he should appoint them to be the people's guides, and make people dependent upon them?". That is also illogical.

Whenever a man comes to the realization that God is one and distinct from his creation and submits himself, he becomes a muslim. He doesn't have to have met a muslim or read the Quran. Consequently, anyone at anytime in the most remote regions of the world can become a muslim, by merely rejecting the worship of creation and turning to God alone.

I thought for one to become a Muslim he or she must believe that there is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his last messenger. Your assertion of one becoming a Muslim by simply realizing that God is one and distinct from his creation is false. To be a Muslim one has to believe only in Allah as the only God, believe in Mohammed as his last messenger, perform 5 daily prayers, give alms to the poor, fast during the period of Ramadan, and go on pilgrimage to Mecca. One can not be a Muslim without believing in at least one of the 5 things I have listed. Above all one can not be a Muslim if he does not believe in the Koran as the word of Allah.

So illiteracy or a lack of a written culture does not matter... In fact the Quran was revealed in a society with a largely oral culture....

True, art is a way of expression and that is great... Some animist traditions still have the underlying principle of a one supreme being but they use the statures as go-betweens. These go-betweens are often times given attributes that should only be reserved for the creator for instance the god could be called the god of thunder or of love.

Mazaje gave a very good rebuttal to this assertion of yours, the Koran that is considered the word of God is also a go between. Since it is claimed to be the word of God.

You have divided the attributes of God and given some of it to the creation: Even though the thing you offered that kind of reverence is a creation itself.
If we say as some of the animists suggest that God is in the creation: Then before the creation of the universe, the universe must have existed and not existed at the same time: since God is a part of it: This in itself is an absurdity.

In the case of revelation, a true revelation from God must be consistent and provide us with signposts to the transcedent (see my last post).

Many different religions believe that their own version of revelation provides them with that signpost to the transcendent.

What has lack of belief in Allah or Zeus contributed to humanity? Is that really what the OP is asking? What has lack of belief in fairies and ghost contributed to humanity? Even as a theist I believe this question is wrong.