₦airaland Forum

2buff:
^^ I am not omniscient. I only see what is in front of my eyes and the world is a big place.
So if you are not objecting God's power, then what is the point of wanting to whether if I have "seen it physically"?

As you can see the in the bible excerpt I posted, this is one of such examples in the bible of God healing the amputated.
If it was done then, it can be done today, but only by HIM and through whoever HE chooses to use.
There is no further need for argument.

Cheers.

Seems you don't understand my standing on this issue, so i'll try to explain.  The contention of this debate is with regards to fraudulent men. Whilst I believe in God's powers, I dont believe in just anybody that calls his name. Read about the lifestyle of Jesus who perfomed miracles, then take a look at the Men that purports to perfom miracles today, do they have any similarities?

Nobody can be like Jesus but we are meant to follow his teachings. Why then do these men that perfom miracles live in luxury that the average member of the church can only dream of?

Till now these men of God cannot verify one single case of miracle for the world to see. Jesus performed miracles in front of strangers, they only perform theirs for TV in the midst of fanatic congregation. That is what i object to.


So 2buff, is it possible to see the b4 and after pics of the miracle you saw?

2buff:
I have heard reports from trusted sources as well as before-after pics.
I have not physically seen, doesn't mean I intend to put a cap on what God can and can't do.
Who am I or you to do that?

Since we are not priviledged to have the same "Trusted"sources, is it possible, for the sake of all non-believers and believers alike, to share the before and after pics?

2buff:
I have heard reports from trusted sources as well as before-after pics.
I have not physically seen, doesn't mean I intend to put a cap on what God can and can't do.
Who am I or you to do that?

The bolded is what I needed to know.

Did you see me write anything to object the power of God?

What I object is the power of deceit.

2buff:
Remote circumstances that haven't been put on media. A lot goes on in the mission field than you know.
I suppose the real question is "why doesn't God heal the amputees [b]I[/b]want to see healed".
Understand this:

God is not entirely moved by the grievousness of our circumstances-
if He were, Satan could lead Him around, anywhere he wanted.
He would be the head (leader) and God would be the tail (follower),
and that's not how God operates.

So, I take it that you have witnessed or seen one miracle done, (since a lot goes on that I dont know of).

Have you seen or witnessed an amputee healed?

2buff:
And to correct someone on here, when the Holy Spirit is concerned, it's not about "magical powers". That would entail that you control the Holy Spirit. God cannot be controlled. Those he operates in are given specific instructions on what to do in a specific situation. There have been cases of amputees being healed even today.

Such as, ?

newmi:
Is that what you think no wonder your id spells the limitations of your mind eroded by a lack of ability to see and perceive beyond your senses. . . . Without any apologies let me tell you in plain words YOU ARE A DEAD MAN WALKING.

Is the bolded necessary?
Can't someone have a different opinion to yours?

Must you always resort to religious bigotry?

EarsWide:
It is funny - it is not just that amputated limbs are never healed by the prosperity charlatans - they never even attempt it. Why is this ?

I bet no one has ever seen Benny Hinn, Copeland, Oyedepo, Ashimolowo or any of the others invite an amputee on stage with the intention of restoring lost limbs ?

Why ?? Because they are frauds!!!

Earswide, did you watch Derek's brown take on Healings?

benodic:
@ poster

first of all i want to make the point that there is nothing like unbelievers before God. that is a dichotomy created by man. God loves all life so much that It made
provisions for all souls to be able to reach out to It in their own unique way.

that is why there are so many religions on Earth each with its own unique way of approaching God. souls are to choose the one most comfortable to them. there is no need for rancour or bitterness. God answers the prayer of every soul.

It doesn't matter to it whether you believe that God exists or not and it doesn't matter your religion. God's love is totally unconditional and everlasting.

I agree with you. The bolded is why I believe Christ or Islam is not the only way. Anything otherwise would mean we have a bias God, which in turn means God is non-existence, because an Omnipoten should not be bias, as bias is one of HuMAN'S NATURAL INSTINCTS

Niceyenuf:
@dare 2 think(deeply) and ears wide (more like spiritual ears and eyes closed) get a life!!!!! halleluyah god is doing great things in the winners family. i felt so elated wearing my thirthieth anniversary cloth yesterday and almost everyone we passed by yesterday recognised us as a winners family. i am so grateful to god for being a part. haters remain. we have left u behind. (amen)

You dont even know me, why the dumb insinuations?. Rather than answer my legit questions, you resort to ridiculous assertions. Shame on you.

I am entitled to my own opinions and would not be enticed by Ill-gotten wealth. Rather than correct any areas that I may be wrong, you chose bigotry only because you have no relevant answers.

Since wearing a cloth gives you elation no wonder the prosperity doctrine seems to have encapsulate your reasoning faculty.

Oyedepo is the one that have left you behind.( or do you have a jet?)

Oshosam:
I hope people will one day sit down and try not to stumble/fall through another. I'd rather strive to enter through the narrow gate for wide is the gate , It's not good to see a speck of wood on another man's eye when you have a log of wood in yours. I pray the wise will not turn foolish and the foolish will not perish, because He's coming soon. Get up excited, go tell everybody that JESUS CHRIST IS KING.

and the point is??

are you for or against?

Ivynwa:
Ivynwa rolled on her desk and laughed and laughed and laughed.
@Ajanlekoko
Old boy you too much o-o-o, thanks for giving me NL Laughter Number one of the day.

In my own opinion I will say that we humans are the ones that constrain ourselves to "the danger of believing a one-sided single story", it results from small mindedness and the inability to broaden the mind in thinking. Sometimes the environment contributes to it only on this condition: if you yourself that hears ideas from the people around you, believes it without questioning, researching or verifying it. Yet there is no denying the fact that some single stories have an atom of truth to it, we should only be careful not to generalize and conceptualize all people from a story.
As per the Tribalists of NL, I have learnt to avoid their sickening rantings and not bother with reading their posts. Some Africans that were affected by the slave trade (that is the descendants) are out there broken hearted that they do not know their origin or tribe and some of us(the tribalists) in Africa that should embrace ourselves in oneness are here castigating and pouting to ourselves like " you are from so so tribe and your people ain't no where close or can't be measured to my people". Just the very way kids pout when they play. . Isn't it ridiculous? One love people!

The religious section suffers from the bolded lines. I agree with you 100%. The environment plays a huge role in the level of Ignorance. If you surround yourself with zombies, its only a small amount of time before you start thinking like one.

Idowuogbo:
sup tiny

hw far, id?

nuella2:
congratulations oooooo, you guys are doing a great job around the world.

pls enlighten me, which world are you implying?

Afghanistan
2 Akrotiri
3 Albania
4 Algeria
5 American Samoa
6 Andorra
7 Angola
8 Anguilla
9 Antarctica
10 Antigua and Barbuda
11 Argentina
12 Armenia
13 Aruba
14 Ashmore and Cartier Islands
15 Australia
16 Austria
17 Azerbaijan
18 Bahamas, The
19 Bahrain
20 Bangladesh
21 Barbados
22 Bassas da India
23 Belarus
24 Belgium
25 Belize
26 Benin
27 Bermuda
28 Bhutan
29 Bolivia
30 Bosnia and Herzegovina
31 Botswana
32 Bouvet Island
33 Brazil
34 British Indian Ocean Territory
35 British Virgin Islands
36 Brunei
37 Bulgaria
38 Burkina Faso
39 Burma
40 Burundi
41 Cambodia
42 Cameroon
43 Canada
44 Cape Verde
45 Cayman Islands
46 Central African Republic
47 Chad
48 Chile
49 China
50 Christmas Island
51 Clipperton Island
52 Cocos (Keeling) Islands
53 Colombia
54 Comoros
55 Congo, Democratic Republic of the
56 Congo, Republic of the
57 Cook Islands
58 Coral Sea Islands
59 Costa Rica
60 Cote d'Ivoire
61 Croatia
62 Cuba
63 Cyprus
64 Czech Republic
65 Denmark
66 Dhekelia
67 Djibouti
68 Dominica
69 Dominican Republic
70 Ecuador
71 Egypt
72 El Salvador
73 Equatorial Guinea
74 Eritrea
75 Estonia
76 Ethiopia
77 Europa Island
78 Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas)
79 Faroe Islands
80 Fiji
81 Finland
82 France
83 French Guiana
84 French Polynesia
85 French Southern and Antarctic Lands
86 Gabon
87 Gambia, The
88 Gaza Strip
89 Georgia
90 Germany
91 Ghana
92 Gibraltar
93 Glorioso Islands
94 Greece
95 Greenland
96 Grenada
97 Guadeloupe
98 Guam
99 Guatemala
100 Guernsey
101 Guinea
102 Guinea-Bissau
103 Guyana
104 Haiti
105 Heard Island and McDonald Islands
106 Holy See (Vatican City)
107 Honduras
108 Hong Kong
109 Hungary
110 Iceland
111 India
112 Indonesia
113 Iran
114 Iraq
115 Ireland
116 Isle of Man
117 Israel
118 Italy
119 Jamaica
120 Jan Mayen
121 Japan
122 Jersey
123 Jordan
124 Juan de Nova Island
125 Kazakhstan
126 Kenya
127 Kiribati
128 Korea, North
129 Korea, South
130 Kuwait
131 Kyrgyzstan
132 Laos
133 Latvia
134 Lebanon
135 Lesotho
136 Liberia
137 Libya
138 Liechtenstein
139 Lithuania
140 Luxembourg
141 Macau
142 Macedonia
143 Madagascar
144 Malawi
145 Malaysia
146 Maldives
147 Mali
148 Malta
149 Marshall Islands
150 Martinique
151 Mauritania
152 Mauritius
153 Mayotte
154 Mexico
155 Micronesia, Federated States of
156 Moldova
157 Monaco
158 Mongolia
159 Montserrat
160 Morocco
161 Mozambique
162 Namibia
163 Nauru
164 Navassa Island
165 Nepal
166 Netherlands
167 Netherlands Antilles
168 New Caledonia
169 New Zealand
170 Nicaragua
171 Niger
172 Nigeria
173 Niue
174 Norfolk Island
175 Northern Mariana Islands
176 Norway
177 Oman
178 Pakistan
179 Palau
180 Panama
181 Papua New Guinea
182 Paracel Islands
183 Paraguay
184 Peru
185 Philippines
186 Pitcairn Islands
187 Poland
188 Portugal
189 Puerto Rico
190 Qatar
191 Reunion
192 Romania
193 Russia
194 Rwanda
195 Saint Helena
196 Saint Kitts and Nevis
197 Saint Lucia
198 Saint Pierre and Miquelon
199 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
200 Samoa
201 San Marino
202 Sao Tome and Principe
203 Saudi Arabia
204 Senegal
205 Serbia and Montenegro
206 Seychelles
207 Sierra Leone
208 Singapore
209 Slovakia
210 Slovenia
211 Solomon Islands
212 Somalia
213 South Africa
214 South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands
215 Spain
216 Spratly Islands
217 Sri Lanka
218 Sudan
219 Suriname
220 Svalbard
221 Swaziland
222 Sweden
223 Switzerland
224 Syria
225 Taiwan
226 Tajikistan
227 Tanzania
228 Thailand
229 Timor-Leste
230 Togo
231 Tokelau
232 Tonga
233 Trinidad and Tobago
234 Tromelin Island
235 Tunisia
236 Turkey
237 Turkmenistan
238 Turks and Caicos Islands
239 Tuvalu
240 Uganda
241 Ukraine
242 United Arab Emirates
243 United Kingdom
244 United States
245 Uruguay
246 Uzbekistan
247 Vanuatu
248 Venezuela
249 Vietnam
250 Virgin Islands
251 Wake Island
252 Wallis and Futuna
253 West Bank
254 Western Sahara
255 Yemen
256 Zambia
257 Zimbabwe

Definately not this world.

@ Blazay,

She only asked for a public opinion. There really was no need to be harsh, not all women possess your emotional strenght. As for the ethnic bigotry, you are free to make your own opinions on it, but remember it helps nobody and only leads to more hate.

Hate only generates more hatred.

randyorton:
@blazay,

for your info,i am not an ibo guy o but i hate people who condemn other tribes.dont know where u are from but i can tell u dat ibos guys are better than yoruba guys.hands down.i know dat as a yoruba babe u must be promiscous.mumu

Makes no sense,

Please check the meaning of "CONTRADICTION" in a dictionary.

Pointless,

Anyway, I wish you well in your celebrations.

I agree with you, Liberation is not meant for all.

london is more ideal, birmz pips can come down easily. Most of them have friends in london anyways.

wassup folly,

fresh_dude:
@Dare2Think. Apparently you have been too scared to think, otherwise you would have noticed that although Jesus was sent to save the whole world the whole world is still not saved. Objectivity will go a long way, stop being a hater sir. The Bible says of Jesus "and He came to His own but they received Him not," perhaps it's time to receive thew Bishop. By the way am in Canaanland now and the presence of God is so thick you can cut through it,the anniversary is on till Sunday so please make it a date with destiny time is ticking,don't waste this opportunity. If you ain't here well o ma se o! . Stay blessed.

Please keep revealing your ignorance for the world to see.

You clearly lack insight, hence your ridiculous reply. I was very civil in my communication with Emmyk and i asked cogent questions, rather than address the issues raised, you result to bigotry. Shame on you.

"scared to think". I think this is a contradictory term that you have applied indirectly to yourself.

Any spiritual leader, that is richer, based on the support from the mechanism of the church, than the average member of the church, should be questioned. And if nobody can question, based on the premise of "annointed must not be touched", then the structure of the church is corrupt and its foundations built on immorality and deceit.

If you cant comprehend with the above statement, then there is no point in me having a sensible exchange with you.

@ those that watched the program,

Dont you find it funny that the demonstrated "healings" seem very similar to those purported by the real "Men of God"?

Lol, fela has said it all. "pope na enjoyment"

Your faith and God is within you. You don't need a middleman or human to connect to God, it's an abuse on Jesus' sacrifice.

Why is it that the leaders are richer than 99.9% of the members of their church, yet they vehemently cling to these false men of hope.

@Emmyk

Thanks, cool that you replied. From the manner of your response I take that you are an objective individual. Before I start, I want to implore you to please, do  not take my critique in a negative way, as an individual, just like you, I am entitled to my opinion and belief. Bishop Oyedepo, just like Osama,Abacha or Obama, has not offended or taken my "tithe", for me to be furious or upset about him. But does that mean I can't state my feelings about some activities that, in my opinion, does not add up?

Firstly, why does some of his members get very irritable when someone raises a negative connotation/critique about him. God, is the only entity beyond criticism. The congregation seem to have built a personality cult around him, which seems to have sidelined the role of Jesus and God. Pls, I am judging from the response I get/see from his "Followers"

Secondly, I personally, Have nothing against his person, but I have "critical" questions about his activities i.e purchase of an aircraft as an excuse for evangelism in the midst of abject poverty, and his apologist are very quick to defend him. Emmyk, are you aware that power corrupts? are people forgetting that he is just human just like you and I? is he beyond reproach? If he does wrong, are there people within the church that can raise their objections?

Thirdly, according to winnerslfc, God made a revelation to him (Oyedepo), did God also give his mandate to his wife and children? Why, according to reports, does his children head other branch of churches?

The morality of the personality cult built around him really baffles me, as christianity, from what i understand entails humility, spirituality and love for thy neighbour. This shift to concentrated urge for prosperity raises an eyebrow. The contradictory and amazing part of it all, is the fact that I am yet to see/meet/hear an average member richer than Oyedepo himself after years of him preaching prosperity.

Thanks.

Winnerslfc:
[color=#0000ff]Oh! No wonder there is much poverty in churches today. People believe that Christianity is just suffering and persecution. Who told you that God is poor? so why should you who was created in His image be?[/color]
Please keep the criticisms coming (atleast that shows that we are making progress).

And is God concerned about earthly riches?

Winnerslfc:
Over the years, God has remained faithful in backing and proving His words with signs and wonders.
As He said to his servant Bishop David Olaniyi Oyedepo (PHD) after an eighteen hours vision
[color=#00ff00]"From the begining it was not so but now, The hour has come to liberate the world from all opressions of the devil through the preaching of the word of faith and I am sending you to undertake this task."[/color]

@winnerslfc
This is what I dont get. God sent him to "liberate the world from all opressions of the devil through the preaching of faith, "

Last time I checked, the world is still opressed, natural disasters still occurring, terrorism still active, religious violence still prevalent, children still dying of hunger around africa and the list goes on.

So,pls which world was he sent to liberate?

ufofi2003:
PEOPLE SHOULD BE CAREFUL. I HAVE BEEN A MEMBER OF WINNERS CHAPEL NOW FOR OVER A DECADE AND I KNOW WHERE I AM COMING FROM.
I USED TO BE VERY POOR TO THE EXTENT I USED SOAP AS TOOTHPASTE & ALSO USED DETERGENT TO TAKE MY BATH BECAUSE THERE WAS NO MONEY THEN TO AFFORD THEM. BUT TODAY BY OBEDIENCE TO THE TEACHINGS OF THE SAME MAN OF GOD YOU ADVICE US TO LEAVE BECAUSE HE ACQUIRED A NEW PRIVATE JET, TODAY I AM HAPPILY MARRIED WITH A LOVELY SON, I PAY OTHER CHILDREN SCHOOL FEES WITHOUT ANY STRESS, I HAVE SET UP A LOT OF LESS PRIVILEGED PEOPLE THAT ARE DOING WELL TODAY AND OF A TRUTH I CAN TELL YOU I AM A BLESSED MAN.
THE BIG QUESTION IS, NOW THAT GOD HAS SO BLESSED ME FINANCIAL, WHERE DO YOU WANT ME TO SOW MY FINANCIAL SEEDS? IS IT IN AN HERBALIST SHRINE OR IN A BEER PARLOR? PLEASE THERE ARE MILLIONS OF US THAT WERE NOTHING BEFORE, THAT GOD HAS USED THIS MAN TO TRANSFORM US. PLEASE BE CAREFUL.

sigh, speechless. The mentality of his followers is disheartening. He has really enslaved the way they reason.

"God has used this man to transform us", I guess Jesus has gone on a vacation break since he does not seem to be needed anymore.

what a shame.

Azibalua:
I hope someone actually preached christ to him while he lived

The most myopic and ignorant statement have heard in the religious thread. (And, i have heard a lot). Pointless chain of thought.

@post

I've always suspected your bigotry (look up the meaning), but wow, you give it a new dimension. Please read more so you stop spewing out ignorance. An hardcore Jihadist, who believed in the extermination of jews and western ideals, yet you are asking if he gave his "Heart" to Christ before he died.

Damn, pls do you know the meaning of "Fundamentalism"?

What does this world need right now?

Love or Evangelism?

@ Mr Jo

Thanks for your reply, though i dont agree with it 100%.

I dont feel you should equate Elijah/Elisha with some of these Present day Men. however there is no yardstick to measure faith.

One more thing, Does Oyakilome have security?.

Another, do you aknowlegde that some Mog's are fraudulent? or do you just accept anybody with that label?

Thanks.

Joagbaje:
As I said several times, when you guys get stuck, you come after jo. I'm not azibalua. Don't derail the thread.let's discuss topic.

Pls do not generalise. I'm not stuck.

Can I ask you a question?
pls, how come A man of God can raise the dead, cure the sick, bring about prosperity yet cannot guarantee his own safety?

If you intend to respond with bible quotations, I must inform you that you refrain from abusing the text of the bible to justify your argument as this has been done by, Fraudsters,slave owners, racist, and the catholics in the medeival times. So pls come back with something better because i wont fall for the ability to pick words from the bible.
Thanks.

@yommyuk

pls stop all that bigotry stuff.

Did you say we "Christains" on Jugdment day?
Did God tell you Christians are his only children?  Stop all this "US" AND "THEM" sentiments.

There are thousands of faiths around the world with three being the Major ones.
Dont you know religous tolerance is what makes society move forward?

Pls what is your duty? To down grade other faiths (Awareness) at the expense of yours? Is that what Christianity is about?

Have you forgotten that it was the europeans that brought the religion to our ancestors? Are you aware that it(Christianity) was used to justify slavery?

yommyuk:
We do not impose, we just generate awareness, so that at the end of time you cannot not say we(CHRISTIANS) have not done our duty

Did God say to you only christians would enter his kingdom?  Why cant you practice your faith and leave others to do the same?

airzzee:
I am surprised how this peaceful comment can generate so much anger & hatred. I can imagine where all our problems are coming from.

Maybe you need to be more comprehensive about what you are implying.

There is no hint of anger and hatred in what i posted.
I just find your statement funny, or maybe i'm misunderstanding it, if so, pls explain what you mean.

What is wrong with  our muslim brothers that they need our prayers?

how do you know God has not visited them?

People with your ideology is what is wrong with religion.

@jo

dude, that was a weak response, shame on you.

@ all those who think because a church has a large congregation then it is genuine,

I hope the  video above will shut you up.