₦airaland Forum

A part from a small article that i wrote,

I am not against Religion, I believe it's purpose has been diluted for political and financial manipulation.  King henry VII broke away from Catholicism so he could marry another wife thereby converting England to protestant state. Hence, Church of England. People died due to that change with Catholics and  and Protestants fighting themselves. These are the White Men that  brought Christianity to our Lands. The interpretation of the verses in the Bible and Quran depends on the person saying it to you.
That's why it's possible to convince some people to blow themselves up, just show them a verse and give them a meaning.
So to people justifying for their pastors, is it not because he has shown you a verse and given you the meaning. Have you tried to use your own knowledge and brain to find the meaning? They would tell you God spoke to them.  God speaks to you to buy a Jet but Has God forgotten those kids dying (of hunger) around Africa that he can't tell you to donate money to them.  

Only hard work and love with honesty can make Africa progress not Religion. Religion is diluted and corrupted

@ Benodic

Dude i tire, but i refuse to settle for the Status quo of our kinsmen feudal ideologies. It's selfish and unfair to the rest of the world that have got their own doctrines. Why Then disregard their faiths and say "Jesus is the only way". Why can't we all co-habitat and aknowledge the diversity of the world.

Why confine our views?. Religion has done more harm to our psyche hence the lack of progress in africa. We value our faiths more than our neighbor, which seem to me a clear contradiction. Like i said before,  our religiuous life is a reflection of political structure in Nigeria. Deceit is rife.

OLAADEGBU:
Are you really sure you think independently?

[img width=500 height=500]http://www.answersingenesis.org/assets/images/media/cartoons/after-eden/20020225.gif[/img]

LOL between me and you, who has been relying on another source to prove his point? 

@ Image123

You clearly don't understand the intricacies of the Standard English language as a means of communication. Where did I write "judge not" ?
I only asked who he was to jugde the right path to heaven or hell, in reference to his assertion that Jesus is the Only (By the way he just came up with a verse from the bible about Paul's Jugdment on Law) no mention about Jesus being the only way to Heaven.

When did asking questions become a form of entanglement? I'm only challenging his conclusion about Jesus being the Only (You need not be defensive on his behalf)

So please Like i said before, understand the content of our discussion, then you can contribute. I  only asked the question. "Who are you to judge the path that leads to heaven or hell".  

It is your friend that said "They will only go to hell for sins such as murder, violation, adultery, lust, theft, lying, homosexuality". Hence the reason why i asked my question?. seems he had already made a judgment to me.

@Olaadegbu
I read the passage and i understand Paul's teaching about the Law. Thanks for that clarification. But alas, There is no mention of Heaven or Hell. Or Jesus being the only way.
Why then would you say "Anyone breaking the Law of God cannot give the excuse that he did not hear about Jesus Christ because ignorance is not an excuse". It's clearly different from the verse you posted.

Why are you giving your own meaning?

Please read Or try to understand the context of our discussion before jumping to conclusions?

To answer you; I am asking him questions Based on his own assertions.
Or can you answer the questions for him?

Or do you need your pastor's help? 

since most of you guys find it hard to think for yourselves.

Pls don't be frustrated. You still have not cleared your contradiction, so pls divert yourself back to the topic at hand.

How is Jesus the only way?
What happens to those that dies without hearing about Christ?
Who are you to judge the path that leads to heaven or hell.

My dear friend. I'm dare2think , I have no multiple id ( since dont need one to proVe my points).So pls answer my valid questions " holy one"

@Olaagbedu

dude you are one confused person. You keep contradicting yourself. Please read your post again.
You said "  If you are not breaking any laws you don't need any parachute or Jesus Christ".

Yet you say jesus is the only way.

Then you say "Anyone breaking the Law of God cannot give the excuse that he did not hear about Jesus Christ because ignorance is not an excuse"

the last statement makes no sense. What about people around the world that have not heard Christ or have another devoted religion what is the way for them.

Please expose yourself more on the diversity of the world. Your views are so myopic and Borders on the fringes of ignorance.

@olaagbedu

you give contradiction a new meaning.
1st you say

OLAADEGBU:
No one will go to hell because they haven't heard of Jesus Christ. They will only go to hell for sins such as murder, violation, adultery, lust, theft, lying, homosexuality etc. Sin is not failing to hear about Jesus but rather is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

then you say Jesus is the only way. Are you confused?

OLAADEGBU:
No one will go to hell because they haven't heard of Jesus Christ. They will only go to hell for sins such as murder, violation, adultery, lust, theft, lying, homosexuality etc. Sin is not failing to hear about Jesus but rather is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

good. But back to the op's assertion. Is Jesus the only way then?

Please permit me Lenny9000 for using your title.

I write from observation and just stating my opinion. I harbour no resentments towards any ethnic or religious party but i'm only willing to question those questions some of our religious folks shy away from or just use a vague verse from the bible or Quran for euphemisms. I have noticed that a significant lack of exposure plays a great deal in the minds of these folks.

Firstly, The Europeans brought Modern Christianity to Africa. Some of these same European used pages from the bible to justify slavery. Thank God for the efforts of the Abolitionist, God knows what  the world look like now. Islam originated from the Arabian peninsula and Fought countless wars to establish itself. There was a time when Christianity was like that ;forced conversion, killing the "enemies", the pope used to have the absolute political and religious powers. Sometimes we all forget we were worshipping some "gods" thousands of years before the advent of Islam and christianity, So JOAGBAJE and MABELL and OLAADEGBU, were are our ancestors? Heaven or hell? They were not "born again", They were not Christians or Muslims, what is there fate? I challenge you to give me a valid answer.

Lest I digress from my main objective, We in Nigeria are one of the most religious country in the world, Like Lenny009 stated in the first part, we call God in everything we do to the extent that even "yahoo yahoo" pray to God for more "blessings". With all these tenacity towards Religion and Prayer, you would think Nigeria would be an Utopia by now. But alas, we still one of the most corrupt country in the world. The political and religious leaders have been deceiving and are still deceiving Nigerians.  We sometimes criticize the western countries for being "Godless" and full of immorality, yet their countries keeps moving forward and more progressive and their average citizen lives a more fulfilling and rewarding life. It does not matter the religion, these"western" countries provides good infrastructure and governance for it's people. Yet we the "Godly ones", Jesus only children, are wallowing in mediocrity. Am speaking collectively and not on individual circumstances.

I am not against Religion, I believe it's purpose has been diluted for political and financial manipulation.  King henry VII broke away from Catholicism so he could marry another wife thereby converting England to protestant state. Hence, Church of England. People died due to that change with Catholics and  and Protestant fighting themselves. This are the White Men that  brought Christianity to our Lands. The interpretation of the verses in the Bible and Quran depends on the person saying it to you.
That's why it's possible to convince some people to blow themselves up, just show them a verse and give them a meaning.
So to people justifying for their pastors, is it not because he has shown you a verse and given you the meaning. Have you tried to use your own knowledge and brain to find the meaning? They would tell you God spoke to them.  God speaks to you to buy a Jet but Has God forgotten those kids dying (of hunger) around Africa that he can't tell you to donate money to them. 

Only hard work and love with honesty can make Africa progress not Religion. Religion is diluted and corrupted.

Just my opinion.

@Jenwitme

Some delusional dude just commented on another thread that thousands of people are in hell now for not knowing christ. Can you imagin? is it there fault that they don't know christ that he would now condemn the to hell?

dude, 9ger ppl tire me. Our nation will take billions of years to progress. Religion weakening their ability to reason. Its really sad

Joagbaje:
@babaearly

what has the post got to do with merchanting dude. pastor chris is doing the work of christ by calling nations to prayers. Thats the primary thing he personaly use the internet for. he prays at certain hours of the day for the world. and wants us all to join him at those hours in prayer. if you sign up on yookos and follow pastor chris in prayer , you will recieve sms on those hours of prayers concerning the direction of prayers for that day. we currently interceding against deaths in all these uprising and dissasters in the world. every time there is loss of lives , it is the devil at work. those thousands that have died without christ are in hell now. So thats the idea .

How dare you condemn people to hell? Are you God? Freaking hypocrites,  Have you been to hell before? do you know  the people there? so how could you as a Christian or sensible person say some ppl are in hell? is that what your church is about? You people are strange and delusional. Please educate yourself your ignorance is scary. You make Nigerians look and sound bad.

REAL TRUTH:
God bless you Kunle,,,,Bottomline is that most pastors in Nigeria have mental problems and they have a way of using the Bible to trickle down the mental problem to their members who eventually becomes mental mess,,,As long as Nigerian Christians would not have thier own mind based on God's word,,,these so called criminals would continue to open the gates of hell for most people and their families as they continue to worship men instead of God.
A christian who can not question his so called pastor when he is wrong might likely be dragged to hell,,,I have since lost respect for almost 99.99% of Nigerian pastor,,,,,

anyone that thinks otherwise is probably brain dead

Your friend needs to do the courageous thing and ask his pastor why he is taking that stand. Personally i belief he should advise his church to vote for who they think is the right candidate without religious or ethnis sentiment. Sadly, the pastor seem to be following some certain sentiments hopefully not a financial one.

Niceyenuf:
arrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! I've tried but best to make u see reason BUT it is d Holy Spirit that convinces. I hav no more 2 say. God bless u "good" daretothink. Gud nite. I really pray u hav a change of hrt.

Pls don't be frustrated by my beliefs. I'm only stating me opinion. You hope that i have a change of heart. Thank you. I hope that you open your eyes. God bless you too.

@ Odizi

rightfully put. But i don't believe in keeping quiet. Sometimes it essential to speak your mind when you hold a strong belief and you notice things do not add up. If we all keep quiet and watch things unfold there would be lack of progress. I am not condenming your right to worship in his church. But a spAde is forever a spade. There is no role for luxury for one that is called to lead. His servitude and devotion is for the welfare of of the flock. A shepard never sleeps if any of his sheep is in need. But question that shepard if his using the wool of the sheep to make profit without replenishing the sheep. I hope you get my analogy.

@ Jacupel

If being good is not a way to heaven,then dude i dont want to be in your infatuated heaven. I disagree, Jesus is not the only way to heaven. Please what happens to the native man in Brazil that still lived in the junge and died yesterday and has not heard about Jesus? Pls my bro jacupel where does he go? All the muslims when they die where do they go? all the buddist,sikhs in india, jews , pls somebody tell what happens to them. NOBODY KNOWS.

We must stop having a myopic view in life, there is so much diversity in the whole world to now constrict heaven to born-again christains only is selfish and delusional. Please read more news and watch more international tv and learn how people from differen parts of the world reason.

You stated that i'm jealous because he is rich, I am not, i'm only being critical. We are not in a dictatorship and we are all free to make our jugdments. And no he has not defrauded me, it is you who is being swindled. It is your right to see things your way, but that will not stop me from stating my own opinions. Like you said he is rich,Is everybody in Canaan rich. Is it morally right for the sherpard to be comfortable whilst his "sheeps" are still struggling? To travel around in Jets whilst his sheeps cannot afford to drive? or does everyone in canaanland own a car?
Unlike you, I have my own mind. And i refuse to be swayed. I don't need a middle man to access God. Fact is Nobody does.

To conclude, you asked me where i was when he was poor, and God told him he can never be Poor". Fact is i was not there. But where you there?

dare2think:
@niceyenuf

The joy of individualism entails that i speak my mind and follow deeply as my conscience guides me. Nobody is above criticism on earth only God. I don't beleif in Bishop Oyedepo and i have every right to dismiss people i feel are fraudulent. Your "Papa" is fraudulent and there is no justification for having having any private jet. You claim its for spreading the Gospel!!! why can't he buy a ticket like the rest of his congegration? Wake up and stop letting this guys take you for a ride.

For your information, you don't have to be born again for God to come to your heart you only have to be a Good person. I'm comfortable with my life so all the scare tactics they feed you there dont move me,"tomorrow might be too late". Getting tired of the cliché now.

Pls tell me, is everybody in Canaan land comfortable? are they all financially free? There is so much poverty in Nigeria what has your Papa contributed to alleviate these issues. How has your church impacted the community/country/world? they are deceiving you, they dont even know your church in northern Nigeria, so what gospel are you spreading? Jokers
I dont need to come to your church with expectation, I will work hard and Pray to God myself. I dont need a middle-man, talk less of one that collects money to speak to God on my behalf. Wake up.

How come none of you answered the valid questions that i have asked?

what about people that died before jesus? what was the way for them?
what about the other billions around the world that have not heard about jesus, when they die, what is the way for the?
muslims,buddist, catholics, jews, and so on, what is the way for them?
do you speak for christians only, or do you speak for humanity?

@niceyenuf

The joy of individualism entails that i speak my mind and follow deeply as my conscience guides me. Nobody is above criticism on earth only God. I don't beleif in Bishop Oyedepo and i have every right to dismiss people i feel are fraudulent. Your "Papa" is fraudulent and there is no justification for having having any private jet. You claim its for spreading the Gospel!!! why can't he buy a ticket like the rest of his congegration? Wake up and stop letting this guys take you for a ride.

For your information, you don't have to be born again for God to come to your heart you only have to be a Good person. I'm comfortable with my life so all the scare tactics they feed you there dont move me,"tomorrow might be too late".  Getting tired of the cliché now.

Pls tell me, is everybody in Canaan land comfortable? are they all financially free? There is so much poverty in Nigeria what has your Papa contributed to alleviate these issues. How has your church impacted the community/country/world? they are deceiving you, they dont even know your church in northern Nigeria, so what gospel are you spreading? Jokers
I dont need to come to your church with expectation, I will work hard and Pray to God myself. I dont need a middle-man, talk less of one that collects money to speak to God on my behalf. Wake up.

@niceyenuf

Please has any member of your family entered "Papa's" private jet? No offence intended. Or any Private jet ever?.  You said someone should seek 4givness from the bishop. Have you forgotten that he is just a human like you and I? Only deluded people like you worship men.

You also said he is not doing it for the Money, A couple of jets, two universities, several cars, several houses and several billions of naira would disagree.

Wake up from your sleep. What has he done directly for you and you household that he shares the same platform with God?  He is only a man good with words and feeding on the desperation of people.

It's a complicated issue but nobody knows what would happen if you do marry the one you Love the most. If they change, then it hurts more. Nobody forces anybody to marry (with exception to some families), but when you eventually marry someone is it not on the prelude that you love that person enough to marry them. The only time you'll realise if you've made the right decision is when you've started to have Grand-children.

@aguiyi

Pls try and understand the concept of Irony or look for the meaning.
Besides, are you now saying that your church is a business? And your Pastor "humorously" called himself a businessman.

I rest my case.

In my opinion not much.
Please I'm only going to express my observation and do not intend to offend anyone. Instead I would want us to have  an open mind as religious subjects tend to be emotive and sometimes remove crucial elements of reasoning from the average mind. I strongly criticize a church that emphasize a great deal about enrichment at the same time takes from the congregation to enrich themselves. At what time did faith become a commodity to buy in order get something in-return. I'm not adept with the scriptures of the bible but who is? The interpretation of the bible is only dependant on who reads it and to those being read to. That's why 10 pastors will have ten different meanings on the same verse. Their is no uniformity hence the different denominations. To my understanding,I doubt if Jesus was really adamant about riches on earth.

Nobody is saying Christians should be pauper's but contentment and hard work should be more encouraged from our Pastor's. Miracles without verification(even Jesus proved his miracles),bogus tithe manipulation,justification for unnecessary luxury on the pastor's part seem to be rampant amongst pentecostal churches these days.

Please can somebody sane explain to me what a religious leader needs a luxury Jet for? last time I checked Dangote, Jimoh Ibrahim, Otedola, Mike adenuga have all got this item.It cost £50k a day to park a jet at heathrow. These are business men. Some of you would say to ease traffic for the pastor as he has a lot of schedules. Are you serious? Are they now different from the average man that travel moderately. Where is the Humility? Are we not meant to follow Christ's ways?
Some would say the Church members gave them. Pls did they carry ouT a referendum? Can't they kindly say no? If the church offers to give them a yacht are they obliged to accept? These are luxury items for the extremely rich. In my opinion, they should abstain from this luxury till everyone they come across would be able to feed themselves 3 times a day. Look at mother Theresa for God's sake.

Truth is Prosperity is a result of hard work,diligence and luck and not the amount of money that you give the church. For me, church is to enhance your spirituality,after which every other thing comes along depending on your attitude. Our collective religious life is a reflection of our political landscape. Deceit is Rife.


A business Man's main aim is profit, what your religious leader's aim?

Rapture is an infatuation on the part of some Christians. Pls those who believe in it, what happens to the other billions of non-Christians around the world. Pls stop fooling yourselves in thinking heaven is only made for christians. Heaven should be made for good people regardless of their religion. We need more education in Nigeria.

PS. Do you get your own meaning from the bible or is it your pastor's interpretation,or did God actually give you these meanings. Stop letting other's deceive you and stop deceiving yourselves. Most of these pastor's are enjoying themselves and flying around the world (some in their private jets). While their kids go to the best schools. Wake up Nigeria.

Be a good person to yourself and your neighbour, Christian and NON-Christian.

Ibime
are u serious? Don't you know the wealth of a nation lies in the health of it's citizens.

@OP

You are wrong to generalise. You probably met SOME Nigerians with those attitudes but i can tell you most just have a critique of nigeria/africa but still love their homelands.
The truth is when you live outside youe country you experience a different culture and system that provides a base for comparison. What you now see is ppl comparing the good and bad between their originated country and the other country.

You said "How about using our skills and knowledge we acquired wherever to develop our homeland and Africa where people see you as the same?"
Are you serious? people back home don't even see themselves as the same talkless of someone coming from the outside. Just take a look at the tribalism section on this forum and you'll understand that we are all still different and not ready for Unity.

I agree, some ppl do forget their origins and adapt to some negative aspects to where they reside in BUT MAJORITY just adapt to their surroundings . Which is only Natural.
As for ", using our skills and knowledge we acquired wherever to develop our homeland", you and I know our people respond to change very slowly, a look into our politics is a testament of that, same ppl running it since the 60s (same can be said in other countries though). Tell me why can't obasanjo just retire from maistream politics?

How do you think someone coming from abroad instructing our politicians to properly manage our funds would be treated? When some true progressives in the country are not even seen talkless of heard.
@ topic Its' a sociological thing.

I agree with dulcet7 with his transcript aknowlegding the fact about Religion having a positive and negative effect on society.

But dulcet7,if you permit me, you failed to address the immediate issue the poster is trying identify. Rather than focus more on humanity, we, in Nigeria (most), tend to focus more on religion as source of individual self-justification,and self-improvements. But i think we need to focus on our environment and work towards improving the quality of our lifes. Religion, should then,in my opinion, enhance our resolve to improve the ourselves and those around us.

We have abused God's name in Nigeria due to a lot of factors. It's funny how some Nigerians assert that the "White man" is godlless yet they are the most progressive. Yet they work together to build their own states and provide for their own folks.  Yet they keep moving foward whilst we are still bickring about blaming the "white man" for the ills of africa though they share a portion of the blame.

@osoisi
Humanity is not in jeopardy because of a 1hr debate and rightfully so. But i worry about Humanity because it's progress is always marred by regressive folks with their thoughts and actions. That is my worry.