₦airaland Forum

SonofElElyonRet:
Fable

If you see the way the lady was swearing and how the rope is hidden in a deep mystical forest and still reaches up into heaven.

SonofElElyonRet:
Yes.

The wall.. Sungbo Eredo. In Ijebu kingdom of Ogun State. Not as great as the Benin Wall

Yes. Nice.

SonofElElyonRet:
Yeah mixed that up.. already deleted reference to the wall from my post.. there's another wall in south west Nigeria though.. can't remember it now..
p.s. Queen Sheba was most likely from Ethiopia, though some even argue Yemen

Generally most ancient cultures have myths saying that the world started in their village.

It's nothing to take seriously.

Someone even told me that she has seen the rope with which a person descended from heaven with a chicken and sand to create the Earth in Ile Ife. Can you imagine that.

SonofElElyonRet:
Yeah mixed that up.. already deleted reference to the wall from my post.. there's another wall in south west Nigeria though.. can't remember it now..
p.s. Queen Sheba was most likely from Ethiopia, though some even argue Yemen

Ethiopia is right.

SonofElElyonRet:
While I disagree, you know that it is believed by many that Africa is the cradle of civilization.. that Queen Sheba was actually from modern day South West Nigeria.. there's a world heritage site of a monumental wall in present day Osun state that some say is longer than the great China Wall

Are you not talking about the Kingdom of Benin? In terms of the wall?

casualobserver:
If you have anyth8ng to say say it. I can’t stand people who pretend to be knowledgeable but don’t say anything. Everybody has his own account of history, I spent about 3 days reading academic accounts and other accounts . After reading all, I am convinced by the account I described. Unless you have a new account with at is credible, I will stick to mine.

Anyone who says he knows for certain the ancient history of ife is lying. Most accounts are theories based on probabilities and oral accounts The only versions we know are facts we can authenticate for example the Allafin was recognized as the paramount ruler until toppled by Awolowo. This is documented.


If you have anything to say say it or run along with your pretend knowledge.

Is it not also true that the Ooni is really supposed to be the chief priest while the Alaafin is supposed to be the actual (warrior) King?

casualobserver:
For example the shah of Iran is currently in exile and has been for over 40 years. If I stage a coup and overthrow the king of England today and banish William and his brother and the entire family to another kingdom say Spain , You can’t come in 1000 years and say my Future descendants are descendants of Queen Elizabeth! No the accurate story would be that the pure line to the original kings of England currently sit on a throne in Spain. In fact England is a perfect example. The current bloodline of the current British royal family are German not English. That’s why they are called Anglo saxons, they come from saxony in Germany!

It will be difficult to talk about any pure line because the interventions, wars, conquests and usurpations have been too many in history, for England in particular. If you were an usurper, do you know how many other usurpers have been in the line through the centuries. The people there are even descendants of conquerors and usurpers as well.

SonofElElyonRet:
Many would disagree

When was Ile Ife founded?

Kukutente23:
You're mixing up the divine rights of kings. In that context, the people do not have a choice. They have to accept the kingship of the chosen one. They are not a part of the nomination process. This particular one in Israel was more democratic than theocratic. Kings who emerge under divine rights mostly are pioneers of their society not necessarily conquerors or expansionists.

The Divine right of Kings is simply the belief that God choses Kings.

Is that not what happened in Israel?

Its not true that most kings in history have simply been pioneers of nations. Most have been warriors, conquerors and expansionists. Even most who arove by usurpation had to be murderers.

You've started fumbling bible knowledge again. Moses was not a prophet when he killed the man. No prophet went to war except they were directly commanded by God. Not all judges were prophets. Some were simply chosen in circumstantial manner. Samson and Jepthah were in this category. Elisha never called beers on the children he simply cursed them which led to the emergence of bears. Lastly, prophets had a high level of responsibility compared to the Kings

Moses was a Prophet. The office of a prophet is to prophesy and he did so. It is too clever to say he had not started prophesy when that incident occurred. Because the truth is he had already been chosen by God for everything right from hi birth and placement in a basket on a river and being taken into the royal house of Egypt by the queen. All that was part of his journey. But if you deny this, do you think Moses killed no one else? Some actually consider him a mass murderer.

It also makes no sense to say no Prophet went to war without the command of God. That is irrelevant because they supposedly do all things by the command of God. And they gave injunctions for war and genocide all the time.

It is not really useful to distinguish between the prophets and judges on this matter because both acted under the power of and at the behest of God. Joshua was the first and making this kind of distinction is both tiresome and meaningless on this particular topic. Because most of those Judges were in the place of spiritual leaders, not so?

Eli was a priest as well as Judge.
Samuel was a prophet as well as the last Judge as another example.

As per Elisha what is the difference between making a pronouncement which elicits the bears and murdering them himself? Come on.

Kukutente23:
The choice was made by the Israelites. They chose to have a king. Thus, an Israeli king can't claim to be a priest-King like the Ooni you mentioned. Their role is political leadership and that's it. God chose for them because they are his people not because there was any mystical or spiritual significance involved. God even said the children of Israel had rejected him by asking for a king.
That the kings in Israel were not spiritual leaders is seen in the lifestyle of Saul, David and Solomon the 3 kings of unified Israel. They were mostly erratic in their relationship with God committing different atrocities such as adultery, murder, covetousness and disobedience to God's instructions, stuff that were never seen with the prophets when Israel was under their leadership. The prophets still existed and they served as God's mouthpiece to the kings. Oduduwa's status in this regard differs sharply. From all accounts, he replaced Obatala in the leadership of Ife and was usually referred to as the deputy to the gods which all kings in Yorubaland adopted to this day

The minute you say God is the one choosing a King, especially in the elaborate manner he chose the first Kings (Saul and David) you cannot remove mysticism and spirituality from it. Most Kings in the world simply arose by warfare and conquest, not a Prophet declaring the anointed one.

Secondly you cannot say that Prophets didnt commit the atrocities Kings did.

I am sure you know Moses was a known murderer for which he had to flee Egypt. The Prophets and Judges were also warlike, commanding many genocides of barbaric nature. Judges such as Samson fell for the wiles of Delilah. Elishah commandeered a bear to tear apart children for laughing at his bald head. Abraham himself was warrior who took loot from warfare and paid tithes from it. Elijah murdered hundreds of prophets of Baal.

Kukutente23:
Ooni being a Priest and now priest-king is open for debate. The question is if he was a king from inception or later transmuted to kingship like Pharaoh.
I've told you to be familiar with the Bible before you start making comments on it.
Davidic covenant is not the covenant that established the land rights. That's the Abrahamic covenant. The Davidic covenant established kingship and supremacy of the tribe of Judah not the Israelites per se.
The kingship of Israel was not a divine idea. The Israelites asked for it. Before then, the priesthood and prophetic office were already established by God. So there's no mysticism or spirituality associated with the emergence of Israelite Kings.
In the case of the Ooni as he's alluding now, he's simply saying he was divinely chosen from the beginning of time to be king. That's very much a myth

Oh please its way too elementary to try to teach me the distinction between the Davidic and Abrahamic Covenants. Look at y sentence carefully and you will se that I did not call one the other. I said -

"Up till today there is what is called the Davidic Convenant, and Jews rely on the alleged promises of their God to justify their political and international rights to land and statehood."

The bold word is disjunctive.

Now look at the bold in your words above. If there was no mysticism and spirituality involved, why was the choice of Kings allegedly made by God? Who chose Saul? Who chose David? Who interacted with Solomon and Hezekiah in terms of their requests, if not their god, Yahweh?

Who performed miracle after miracle in the whole process and how is any of this verified history and not myths.

I hope you know even the existence of Saul, David, Solomon and co is disputed as proper history?

Finally, if "mysticism and spirituality" were not involved, why could the Jews not simply directly chose a king rather than asking their God for a king?

I can take this further. Because the supposed messiah who has either come or to come is also deeply rooted in same mysticism and spirituality and he is supposed to be a priest-king and accordding to some, he is even God himself.

Kemetian:
That’s a ridiculous excuse. They have far more stations than Lagos, so it’s not as if they are overcrowded.

Sometimes YOU and YOURS can be better. Stop feeling inferior.

I by no means feel inferior. I am telling you that a new toy barely used cannot be compared to a toy over a hundred years old in one of the most active and dense economic centres in the world.

Oh, and London Stations are often very crowded. And full of every kind of human being from every corner of the world including drunks and drug addicts and gangters of every description.

You cant say the same of Lagos yet. The system has not been integrated or built sufficiently to cover every corner and every route. It is yet to be used by the dregs of society in truth, and you cannot deny this.

In London, on almost every road you can walk down a staircase which takes you underground to discover what is for all purposes a complete network to every corner of town. And as I said, pretty everyone uses it, from homeless people to ministers of government.

Kukutente23:
You need to separate the mystical aspect of kingship with the political aspect
What you described above is known as the argument of the divine rights of Kings. It does not remove the origin of kings nor the reality of their existence. What Ooni is alluding to is the political existence of the Kingship of Ooni and not the mysticism behind it. I hope you understand the subtle necessity for his claim. There is a school of thought that the Alaafin is the first King in Yoruba history while the Ooni was initially a priesthood. So claiming that Oduduwa as Ooni was the first king in the world is by extension a claim to the superiority of the Ooni stool over that of the Alaafin.
That said, the royal stool of Israel was divinely created indeed but there is no illusion of mysticism about it. The kings had no mystical powers neither were they religious symbols or leaders as you have it in Yorubaland, England or Arabia. Instead, in a manner close to the Igbo culture, the Chief Priest or Prophet was the religious leader while the King was the political leader in Israel. So it is a misnomer to draw a similarity in that regard within the Bible account of royalty and that of the Yorubas.

The Ooni has for very long been a Priest-King. While theer were separate Priests in Israel, there was alleged direct interaction with Kings several times - such as with Solomon being granted wisdom unparalled. Saul, David and Hezekiah all had alleged Divine encounters or interventions. Can any of this be historically verified?

Up till today there is what is called the Davidic Convenant, and Jews rely on the alleged promises of their God to justify their political and international rights to land and statehood. Thus one cannot claim a proper division of faith and state with regard to Israel.

However the real point remains that the historical kingship of Israel, which is what one can compare to what the Ooni is talking about, is rooted in myth, legends, alleged miracles, religion and spirituality. Much of the philosophy of even the modern state of Israel in rooted in alleged Divine rights and convenants.

Lanretoye:
thats why you people willl remain backward till God knows when,these kind of useless mentality…in the pare of Nigeria where you came from,have you ever seen a moving train since when you were born?

Where do you expect the fastest infrastructure, in the economic capital of a country or elsewhere?

What is natural is natural.

Kemetian:
What does age have to do with cleanliness?

We are not referring to fading wall paint.

Cleanliness. Tidiness.

Its still not being used by the majority. Almost everyone in London uses theirs for example.

Kukutente23:
It is not about believing one myth over the other
I don't think any culture or tribe has ever come out to claim having the first king on the face of the earth
That will not be something to qualify as a myth embedded in spirituality or divinity but a fact that will need to be checked
For example, the Pharaohs were Kings. So were the Persian Nebuchadnezzars as well as the Arabian Amirs. So it will be left to check if Oduduwa was crowned King before all these humans
Oduduwa was human from all accounts so divinity or mysticism cannot be employed in this narrative as you mistakenly attempt

The record of the Kings of Israel in Hebrew Scripture is full of mysticism and claims of Divine intervention, no?
Does the same scripture not commence with talking snakes, parting of waters, manna from heaven, rods turning into snakes and so many other mystic miracles? And it draws a direct line from these events to the alleged historical kings of Israel many of whom were also surrounded with similar myths of Divine activity and Divine rights.

The record of the Pharaoh of Egypt is also deeply steeped in myths, legends and Divine activity. The Pharaoh was not even believed to be a mortal but a god, and the activity of Ra, Seth, Horus and Isis is tapered with many stories. Even the River Nile was not believed to be ordinary.

The record of the Arabians is similarly plagued with myths and legends from the pre-Islamic period right through to the time of the many Caliphs and Sultans in the golden age of Islam.

The record of Chinese Emperors commences in legend and myth as do those of Indian Kings of antiquity. Just google "first emperor of china" and you will first see the mythical ones before the confirmed one.

In Sumerian Legend there are legends of extra terrestial beings - the Annukaki who allegedly came from another Planet, governed, and even created man and had a line of kings who lived for millenia each.

I can go on and on.

casualobserver:
With due respect by my people in Ife, What the black man needs to do is to get his story straight. You can’t be saying oduduwa was the 1st crowned King at the same time saying his son was Oranmiyan who according to the same story lived around 12-13th century when we know their were Egyptian kings before the time of Jesus. At least 1300 years prior.

Let get our stories organized and coordinated please

Thank you.

Forget it. When they insist that the world was created at Ile Ife.

Overall everyone has myths so I dont worry about African myths. I worry more about Africans who worship foreign myths as gospel truth.

JovialJune:
Would u like me to bring out ur history of tribal bigotry? Or u only remember tribal antagonism when the truth stares u in the face and u have nowhere to hide?

Go ahead. Show me where I have shown tribal antagonism even once.

You probably just assume I am from a soecific place while you have no idea where I am from.

Kukutente23:
He is giving his own account from the angle of Ife
It does not make it a fact or truism

But why are Africans more likely to believe European and Middle Eastern myths?
Heaven knows that if anyone said an African priest walked on water every African will immediately scoff and laugh his head off.

But millions believe this of a Middle Eastern man whose existence is even contested.

JovialJune:
Watch how some nomenclature with no documented ancestral history of any founding father(s) will come here to cry their heart out on something that does not concern them

Is tribal antagonism the only thing in some of you people's heads?

Rexymania:
Absolutely beautiful...and flashy

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I'd give it a 8/10

It alright but certainly not an 8/10.
5 or 6 is tenable.

Gabrielshow24:
Why should we believe he is the Messiah? 😂 Did he come with the clouds of Heaven 🤦🏾‍♂️? All he did was make a claim, and he got the reward that comes with it. Many before him have risen, and many after will still rise. We are not deceived—Jesus already warned us about such pretenders.

Will you see Jesus coming with any clouds of heaven? When he was allegedly alive, did you witness the dove over his head, hear the voice of the father approving him or attend the transfiguration? Are all these not just claims and stories?

Its still new. London's is a very old system for example.

Racoon:
Chai! What a character back then. The gullible sheepie continue to be gullible and religiously deadened. Guru Marahaji in Ibadan and the late OOO are still one deceiving many.

If people believe a Jewish man was/ is God, what is wrong in people believing an African man is God?

Amudeneogu:
Jesus Christ said, many false prophets will come to his name and many will be deceived, this is one of them he has came and he has gone many is still available in Nigeria and still deceiving many people in another format therefore, let us be very careful about things of this world, there is no time.

The only reason you think he is false is because he is an African like you.

WhizdomXX:
Yeah and those who work against you are not rewarded. Ask Osibanjo, Amaechi and Omo Agege.

Nuhu Ribadu once worked against Tinubu. Where is he now?

Daniel Bwala once worked against Tinubu. Where is he now?

Reno Omokri worked most against Tinubu. Where is he now?

Buhari himself worked against Tinubu. Tell me was he not respected and compensated even after death.

Fayose, Fayemi, Adeleke even Sanwoolu have worked against Tinubu at certain points. Whats the story now?

Even Nyesom Wike has worked stridently against Tinubu before. Where is he now?

El Rufai worked for Tinubu very seriously during the campaigns and rup up to the election (even leading the battle against Buhari on the matter of Naira confiscation). Was he rewarded?

Forget it bro. Its always about interests.

WhizdomXX:
So the election in Adamawa was not free and fair?

Almost impossible.

WhizdomXX:
Nah. Politics doesn't turn out like that, betrayers are found out easily, it only takes time.

Dont you know that even private sector sponsors hedge their bets?

In Politics there is almost nothing like teh word "betrayer" - they move with interests all the time. Whatever furthers the mission of stealing together.

dsenator:
Any sane person knows that in a free and fair election in Nigeria as we're talking right now, Apc can not get more than 30% of votes in any part of the country. Apc should enjoy their loots from Inec while it lasts!

Free and Fair Election, they can probably only win in the South West on account of tribal sentiments.
They would not be able to win a single state outside the South West.

WhizdomXX:
Lol the way some did in 2023. How did it end?

Point is they would want a situation in which however it ends, they are covered.

FreeIgboho22, FreeIgboho23, GabrielShow24, why do you not think this man was/ is the Messiah?

Tareq1105:
That's why they will never ever go along with Atiku bcoz they know that come 2031, it's one of their set that would be the flag bearer of the President. So, they wouldn't want Atiku to block their chances.

Governors can be cunning oh. They may not support him openly but may support codedly. Hedge their bets.